Brightspire Capital Inc (BRSP) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the conference BrightSpire Capital fourth-quarter 2023 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加 BrightSpire Capital 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。

It is now my pleasure to introduce to you David Palamé, General Counsel. Thank you, David. You may begin.

現在我很高興向您介紹總法律顧問 David Palamé。謝謝你，大衛。你可以開始了。

Good morning, and welcome to BrightSpire Capital's fourth-quarter and full-year 2023 earnings conference call. We will refer to BrightSpire Capital as BrightSpire, BRSP, or the company throughout this call.

早安，歡迎參加 BrightSpire Capital 的第四季和 2023 年全年財報電話會議。在本次電話會議中，我們將 BrightSpire Capital 稱為 BrightSpire、BRSP 或公司。

Speaking on the call today are the company's Chief Executive Officer, Mike Mazzei; President and Chief Operating Officer, Andy Witt; and Chief Financial Officer, Frank Saracino.

今天在電話會議上發言的是該公司執行長 Mike Mazzei；總裁兼營運長安迪·威特；和首席財務官弗蘭克·薩拉西諾。

Before I hand the call over, please note that on this call, certain information presented contains forward-looking statements. These statements, which are based on management's current expectations, are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions. Potential risks and uncertainties could cause the company's business and financial results to differ materially. For a discussion of risks that could affect results, please see the Risk Factors section of our most recent 10-K and other risk factors and forward-looking statements in the company's current and periodic reports filed with the SEC from time to time.

在我轉交電話之前，請注意，在本次電話會議中，提供的某些資訊包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述是基於管理階層目前的預期，受到風險、不確定性和假設的影響。潛在的風險和不確定性可能導致公司的業務和財務表現出現重大差異。有關可能影響結果的風險的討論，請參閱我們最新的 10-K 的風險因素部分以及公司不時向 SEC 提交的當前和定期報告中的其他風險因素和前瞻性聲明。

All information discussed on this call is as of today, February 21, 2024, and the company does not intend and undertakes no duty to update for future events or circumstances.

本次電話會議討論的所有資訊均截至今天（2024 年 2 月 21 日），本公司不打算也不承擔針對未來事件或情況進行更新的義務。

In addition, certain financial information presented on this call represents non-GAAP financial measures. The company's earnings release and supplemental presentation, which was released this morning and is available on the company's website, presents reconciliations to the appropriate GAAP measures and an explanation of why the company believes such non-GAAP financial measures are useful to investors. Finally, during this call, management may refer to distributable earnings as DE.

此外，本次電話會議中提供的某些財務資訊代表非公認會計準則財務指標。該公司今天早上發布的收益報告和補充簡報可在公司網站上查看，其中對適當的公認會計原則措施進行了調節，並解釋了為什麼公司認為此類非公認會計原則財務措施對投資者有用。最後，在這次電話會議中，管理層可能將可分配收益稱為DE。

With that, I would now like to turn the call over to Mike.

有了這個，我現在想把電話轉給麥克。

Thank you, David. Welcome to our fourth-quarter and full-year 2023 earnings call, and thank you for joining us this morning. I'll start by giving a brief update on the fourth quarter and what we anticipate for this year, then I will turn the call over to Andy for more specifics on the portfolio.

謝謝你，大衛。歡迎參加我們的 2023 年第四季和全年財報電話會議，感謝您今天早上加入我們。首先，我將簡要介紹第四季度的最新情況以及我們對今年的預期，然後我會將電話轉給安迪，以了解更多有關投資組合的具體資訊。

Let's first turn to BrightSpire's results. For the fourth quarter, we reported GAAP net loss of $16.3 million or $0.13 per share, DE of $25.4 million or $0.20 per share, and adjusted DE of $35.9 million or $0.28 per share. Our dividend coverage for the fourth quarter was 1.4 times.

我們先來看看 BrightSpire 的結果。第四季度，我們公佈的 GAAP 淨虧損為 1,630 萬美元，即每股 0.13 美元，DE 為 2,540 萬美元，即每股 0.20 美元，調整後 DE 為 3,590 萬美元，即每股 0.28 美元。我們第四季的股利覆蓋率為 1.4 倍。

Now let's briefly discuss the financial markets. While the Fed has been back pedaling on the timing of rate cuts, it is now clear that the higher for longer policy has come to a close. This pivot has caused a significant risk on in credit spreads, long duration bonds, and big tech. Even office rates have come off their lows from several months ago. The 10-year treasury yield initially dropped over 100 basis points and is currently about 75 basis points lower versus the October earnings call.

現在讓我們簡單討論一下金融市場。儘管聯準會一直在調整降息時機，但現在很明顯，長期較高的政策已經結束。這種轉向為信用利差、長期債券和大型科技公司帶來了重大風險。甚至辦公大樓租金也已脫離幾個月前的低點。10 年期公債殖利率最初下跌超過 100 個基點，目前較 10 月的財報電話會議低約 75 個基點。

In the commercial real estate debt markets, CMBS AAA's have tightened by roughly 50 basis points, and we saw a very strong investor demand for the first CRE CLO print of 2024, which was also an actively managed structure. The CLO cost of funds has tightened roughly 75 basis points over the past four months.

在商業房地產債務市場中，CMBS AAA 收緊了大約 50 個基點，我們看到投資者對 2024 年首份 CRE CLO 的需求非常強勁，這也是一個積極管理的結構。過去四個月，CLO 資金成本收緊了約 75 個基點。

Furthermore, most of our line lenders have expressed interest in increasing their warehouse balance sheets for new loans. And for good reason, as through this cycle, these banks have seen their best credit performance in this segment of their lending portfolio.

此外，我們的大多數貸款機構都表示有興趣增加新貸款的倉庫資產負債表。並且有充分的理由，在這個週期中，這些銀行在其貸款組合的這一部分中看到了最好的信貸表現。

For commercial real estate owners, these are clear signals that help us on the way. During the second half of this year, we expect the beginnings of a meaningful reduction in the pricing of interest rate caps. And while lower rates alone will not solve all market issues, it will go a long way in reducing credit stress across all asset classes.

對商業地產業主來說，這些都是明確的訊號，可以幫助我們前進。今年下半年，我們預期利率上限定價將開始大幅調降。儘管降低利率本身並不能解決所有市場問題，但它將在減輕所有資產類別的信貸壓力方面大有幫助。

Turning back to BrightSpire, 2023 was challenging, but we continue to protect the balance sheet, maintain higher levels of liquidity, and now have one of the lowest leverage ratios in the peer group. Maintaining these liquidity levels, coupled with our smaller average loan size of approximately $34 million, has helped us navigate the last 18 months. As we have stated in the past, it is problematic for liquidity when large loan concentrations constitute multiples of shareholder equity.

回到 BrightSpire，2023 年充滿挑戰，但我們繼續保護資產負債表，保持較高的流動性水平，現在是同業中槓桿率最低的公司之一。維持這些流動性水平，加上我們平均貸款規模較小（約 3,400 萬美元），幫助我們度過了過去 18 個月。正如我們過去所指出的，當大量貸款集中度構成股東權益的倍數時，流動性就會出現問題。

On that note, Andy will provide an update on our two largest loans, the ultimate resolutions of which will further reduce our own concentrations.

在這一點上，安迪將提供我們兩筆最大貸款的最新情況，其最終解決方案將進一步降低我們自己的集中度。

Looking ahead, with rates expected to decrease in the second half of this year, we're all looking forward to the positive bias this will have on credit quality. Alternatively, our entire sector has experienced earnings increases from the 500 basis points and rate hikes. And now with the coming rate reduction of the Fed funds rate, this positive trend will begin to reverse in the latter portion of 2024.

展望未來，預計今年下半年利率將會下降，我們都期待這將對信貸品質產生正面的影響。或者，我們整個產業的獲利都經歷了 500 個基點和升息的成長。現在，隨著聯邦基金利率即將降息，這種正面趨勢將在 2024 年下半年開始逆轉。

In addition, over the last 18 months, the sector, along with BrightSpire, has recognized write-downs in capital. Further, we experienced capital inefficiencies due to a combination of maintaining higher cash balances, lower leverage from both loan payoffs and warehouse line paydowns, as well as an increase in unencumbered assets. These factors will be headwinds for earnings later this year. Therefore, the sector's 2023 dividend coverage levels should not be used as a guide for future earnings. These coverages should narrow for most as the year progresses.

此外，在過去 18 個月中，該行業與 BrightSpire 一起確認了資本減記。此外，由於維持較高的現金餘額、貸款償還和倉庫線償還的槓桿率較低以及未支配資產的增加，我們遇到了資本效率低下的問題。這些因素將成為今年稍後獲利的阻力。因此，該產業的2023年股利覆蓋率水準不應作為未來獲利的指導。隨著時間的推移，對於大多數人來說，這些覆蓋範圍應該會縮小。

Now, looking forward, it will be about re-optimizing your existing capital base to offset these factors. Accordingly, in 2024, we will need to reverse the balance sheet trends of the past two years. As I previously stated, overall leverage stands at 1.8 times and our unrestricted cash is approximately $203 million. We also have low or non-earning capital in REO and some other assets.

現在，展望未來，我們需要重新優化現有資本基礎以抵銷這些因素。因此，到2024年，我們需要扭轉過去兩年的資產負債表趨勢。正如我之前所說，整體槓桿率為 1.8 倍，我們的非限制性現金約為 2.03 億美元。我們也擁有 REO 和其他一些資​​產的低資本或非營利資本。

During 2024, we will work to monetize and redeploy this capital more effectively. Importantly, the resolution of watchlist assets and providing more certainty on our loan book should also help close the gap between our market price and book value.

2024 年，我們將努力更有效地貨幣化和重新部署這些資本。重要的是，觀察名單資產的解決方案以及為我們的貸款帳簿提供更多確定性也應該有助於縮小我們的市場價格和帳面價值之間的差距。

As we execute our plan to further stabilize the balance sheet, we will also begin to assess new lending opportunities. The actual deployment of capital will most likely be a second half of the year objective. Lending opportunities should further open up in 2024. Along with the Fed easing rates, the regional banks will be seeking to reduce their CRE exposures.

在我們執行進一步穩定資產負債表的計劃時，我們也將開始評估新的貸款機會。實際的資本部署很可能是下半年的目標。2024 年貸款機會應會進一步開放。隨著聯準會放鬆利率，地區銀行將尋求減少其商業房地產風險敞口。

Keep in mind that regional banks hold about 70% of the commercial mortgages in the bank system. So as loans mature, especially construction loans, these banks will be far less incentivized to refinance these loans on their balance sheets. In addition, more regional banks will be included under the new Basel III rules. These factors will become tailwinds for non-bank lenders.

請記住，區域銀行持有銀行系統中約 70% 的商業抵押貸款。因此，隨著貸款（尤其是建築貸款）到期，這些銀行在資產負債表上為這些貸款再融資的動機將大大減弱。此外，新的巴塞爾協議III規則也將納入更多區域性銀行。這些因素將成為非銀行貸款機構的動力。

In closing, we are becoming more positive about the opportunity set. In the not-too-distant future, we will look to play offense for the first time in almost two years.

最後，我們對這個機會變得更加積極。在不久的將來，我們將迎來近兩年來的第一次進攻。

And with that, I will now turn the call over to our President, Andy Witt.

現在，我將把電話轉給我們的總統安迪威特。

Thank you, Mike. Good morning and thank you all for joining. Throughout the fourth quarter, much like the rest of 2023, our focus was on asset and portfolio management. During the fourth quarter, we received $132 million in repayments across four investments, which included a partial repayment of $57 million for the San Jose Hotel loan as a result of sales proceeds from the South Tower.

謝謝你，麥克。早安，感謝大家的加入。在整個第四季度，與 2023 年剩餘時間一樣，我們的重點是資產和投資組合管理。第四季度，我們在四項投資中收到了 1.32 億美元的還款，其中包括因南塔銷售收益而部分償還的聖荷西酒店貸款 5,700 萬美元。

The loan has been paid down to $136 million. The remaining collateral consists of the original 540-room hotel, including all back-of-house infrastructure, amenities, and conference space. The hotel is currently being marketed for sale by the borrower.

貸款已償還至 1.36 億美元。剩餘的抵押品包括原來擁有 540 間客房的酒店，包括所有後台基礎設施、便利設施和會議空間。該酒店目前正在由借款人出售。

In addition, during the quarter, we received repayments on two office loans and a multifamily loan. Subsequent to quarter end, we received an additional $27 million in loan repayments. Looking ahead, we received a repayment notification from the borrower of our largest office loan and expect to be paid off in March. The loan has a current balance of $87 million and a future funding obligation of an additional $13 million. We also anticipate several more loan payoffs or paydowns in the office segment of our portfolio in the coming months, further reducing our exposure to this asset class.

此外，在本季度，我們收到了兩筆辦公室貸款和一筆多戶貸款的還款。季度末後，我們又收到了 2700 萬美元的貸款償還。展望未來，我們收到了最大一筆辦公室貸款借款人的還款通知，預計三月還清。該貸款當前餘額為 8,700 萬美元，未來融資義務為 1,300 萬美元。我們也預計未來幾個月我們投資組合的辦公部分將有更多貸款償還或償還，進一步減少我們對該資產類別的曝險。

Additionally, the sponsor on the South Pasadena, California office loan recently completed upzoning entitlements on land surrounding the existing and fully occupied office building. This upzoning is for residential senior living and it far exceeded expectations, substantially increasing the value of our collateral. While we still maintain this asset in the office segment of our portfolio at year end, we intend to recharacterize the loan next quarter, given the value creation and transformation of the underlying collateral.

此外，加州南帕薩迪納辦公大樓貸款的贊助商最近完成了對現有且已完全佔用的辦公大樓周圍土地的升級分區。此次升級分區是針對老年住宅的，遠遠超出了預期，大大增加了我們抵押品的價值。雖然我們在年底仍將這項資產保留在投資組合的辦公室部分，但考慮到基礎抵押品的價值創造和轉型，我們打算在下個季度重新定義貸款的特徵。

Lastly, as it relates to office exposure within the portfolio, the Washington, DC office property, which we took ownership of during the fourth quarter, is currently being marketed for sale. We should have more definitive information to share by next conference call.

最後，由於與投資組合中的辦公室風險相關，我們在第四季度擁有的華盛頓特區辦公室物業目前正在出售。我們應該在下次電話會議上分享更明確的訊息。

The multifamily portion of our portfolio has largely remained resilient in the face of a difficult macro backdrop. We are seeing a slowdown in top-line growth after years of outsized rental rate increases. We expect top-line growth in the sector to remain relatively flat over the next 12 to 18 months as new supplies absorb.

面對困難的宏觀背景，我們投資組合中的多戶住宅部分基本上保持了彈性。經過多年的租金大幅上漲後，我們看到收入成長放緩。我們預計，隨著新供應的吸收，該產業的營收成長在未來 12 至 18 個月內將保持相對穩定。

Certain policies adopted during COVID have been detrimental to the sector. However, as those policies wind down, operators are making progress on their value-add business plans. We have been working very closely with borrowers on loan extensions and rate cap requirements.

新冠疫情期間採取的某些政策對該行業不利。然而，隨著這些政策的逐步結束，營運商的增值業務計劃正在取得進展。我們一直在貸款延期和利率上限要求方面與借款人密切合作。

Looking ahead, we continue to believe the fundamentals for housing remain strong, and once the product currently under construction is absorbed, there is very little in the pipeline behind it which bodes well for the sector.

展望未來，我們仍然相信住房的基本面依然強勁，一旦目前正在建造的產品被吸收，背後的管道就很少了，這對該行業來說是個好兆頭。

Turning to our watch list update, the list remains relatively consistent with last quarter. First off, two risk-ranked 5 loans were removed from the list. As previously mentioned, we took ownership of the property underlying the Washington, DC office loan. Additionally, we also took ownership of the property underlying a previously risk-ranked 5 Phoenix, Arizona, multifamily loan.

談到我們的觀察名單更新，該名單與上季度保持相對一致。首先，兩筆風險排名為 5 的貸款從名單中刪除。如前所述，我們取得了華盛頓特區辦公室貸款所涉財產的所有權。此外，我們還獲得了先前風險排名為 5 的亞利桑那州鳳凰城多戶家庭貸款的財產所有權。

As we discussed last quarter, the borrower was unable to secure the incremental funds needed to execute the remainder of the business plan. We are in the process of executing a value-enhancing business plan, which we expect will take several quarters to implement, after which time we anticipate taking the property to market. We were able to retain our financing on this Phoenix multifamily property.

正如我們上季度討論的那樣，借款人無法獲得執行業務計劃其餘部分所需的增量資金。我們正在執行一項增值業務計劃，預計需要幾個季度的時間才能實施，之後我們預計將房產推向市場。我們能夠保留鳳凰城多戶住宅的融資。

We had only one watch list loan downgrade during the quarter, a Denver, Colorado, multifamily loan, which was placed on non-accrual and downgraded from a risk ranking of 4 to a 5. The borrower is currently marketing the property for sale.

本季我們只有一項觀察名單貸款被降級，即科羅拉多州丹佛市的多戶家庭貸款，該貸款被列為非應計貸款，風險評級從 4 級降級至 5 級。借款人目前正在推銷該房產。

As of December 31, 2023, excluding cash and net assets on the balance sheet, the portfolio is comprised of 87 investments with an aggregate carrying value of $2.9 billion and a net carrying value of $855 million, or 78% of the total investment portfolio. Our weighted average risk ranking remained flat quarter over quarter at 3.2. The average loan size is $34 million, and the loan portfolio has minimal future funding obligations, which stand at $168 million, or 5% of outstanding commitments.

截至2023年12月31日，不包括資產負債表上的現金及淨資產，該投資組合由87項投資組成，總帳面價值為29億美元，帳面淨值為8.55億美元，佔投資組合總額的78 %。我們的加權平均風險排名與上一季持平，為 3.2。平均貸款規模為 3,400 萬美元，貸款組合的未來融資義務最低，為 1.68 億美元，佔未償承諾的 5%。

First mortgage loans constitute 97% of our loan portfolio, of which 100% are floating rates and all of which have interest rate caps. The multifamily portion of our portfolio remains the largest segment, with 51 loans representing 53% of the loan portfolio, or $1.5 billion of aggregate carrying value.

首套房貸款占我們貸款組合的97%，其中100%為浮動利率，且均設有利率上限。我們投資組合中的多戶住宅部分仍然是最大的部分，有 51 筆貸款，佔貸款組合的 53%，即總帳面價值 15 億美元。

Office comprises 33% of the loan portfolio, consisting of $960 million of aggregate carrying value across 27 loans, with an average loan balance of $36 million. The remainder of the portfolio is comprised of 7% hospitality, with industrial and mixed-use collateral making up the remainder.

辦公室貸款佔貸款組合的 33%，其中 27 筆貸款帳面總價值為 9.6 億美元，平均貸款餘額為 3,600 萬美元。投資組合的其餘部分包括 7% 的酒店業，其餘為工業和混合用途抵押品。

With that, I will turn the call over to Frank Saracino, our Chief Financial Officer, to elaborate on the fourth-quarter results. Frank?

接下來，我將把電話轉給我們的財務長 Frank Saracino，詳細介紹第四季的業績。坦率？

Thank you, Andy, and good morning, everyone. Before discussing our fourth-quarter and full-year results, I want to mention that our fourth-quarter 2023 supplemental financial report is available on the investor relations section of our website.

謝謝你，安迪，大家早安。在討論我們的第四季和全年業績之前，我想提一下，我們的 2023 年第四季補充財務報告可在我們網站的投資者關係部分取得。

As Mike mentioned, for the fourth quarter, we generated adjusted DE of $35.9 million, or $0.28 per share, flat to the third quarter. Fourth-quarter DE was $25.4 million, or $0.20 per share. DE includes a specific reserve on one multifamily loan of approximately $10 million, where we also took ownership of the underlying property during the quarter.

正如麥克所提到的，第四季度，我們調整後的 DE 為 3590 萬美元，即每股 0.28 美元，與第三季度持平。第四季的 DE 為 2540 萬美元，即每股 0.20 美元。DE 包括一筆約 1000 萬美元的多戶貸款的特定準備金，我們也在本季度取得了相關房產的所有權。

Additionally, we reported total company GAAP net loss of $16.3 million, or $0.13 per share, which reflects a sequential increase in our CECL reserves and a small impairment taken on one REO asset. For the full year of 2023, we generated adjusted DE of $138.2 million, or $1.06 per share, representing a return on undepreciated shareholders' average equity of approximately 9.2%. Our dividend for the year of $0.80 was well covered at 1.33 times.

此外，我們報告的公司 GAAP 淨虧損總額為 1,630 萬美元，即每股 0.13 美元，這反映出我們的 CECL 準備金連續增加以及一項 REO 資產的小額減損。2023 年全年，我們的調整後 DE 為 1.382 億美元，即每股 1.06 美元，未折舊股東平均股本回報率約為 9.2%。我們當年 0.80 美元的股息以 1.33 倍得到了很好的補償。

Quarter over quarter, total company GAAP net book value decreased to $9.83 from $10.11 per share. Undepreciated book value also decreased to $11.35 from $11.55 per share. The change is mainly driven by an increase in our CECL reserves and partially offset by adjusted DE in excess of dividends declared.

與上一季相比，該公司 GAAP 帳面淨值總額從每股 10.11 美元下降至 9.83 美元。未折舊帳面價值也從每股 11.55 美元降至 11.35 美元。這項變更主要是由於我們的 CECL 準備增加所致，並被調整後的 DE 超過宣派股利的部分所抵銷。

Looking at reserves, our specific CECL reserve decreased from $35 million to zero. The decrease was driven by the charge-offs related to our taking ownership of the properties underlying the Washington, DC office loan and Phoenix, Arizona multifamily loan. No specific reserve was required on the Denver, Colorado multifamily loan that was downgraded to a five.

從儲備金來看，我們的特定 CECL 儲備金從 3500 萬美元減少到零。這一下降是由於我們取得華盛頓特區辦公貸款和亞利桑那州鳳凰城多戶貸款所涉及的房產所有權而產生的沖銷。科羅拉多州丹佛市的多戶家庭貸款被降級至 5 級，無需任何特定準備金。

Our general CECL provision stands at $76 million or 246 basis points on total loan commitments, an increase of $21 million from the prior quarter. The increase in the general CECL was primarily driven by economic conditions as well as specific inputs on certain hotel and multifamily properties.

我們的一般 CECL 撥備為 7,600 萬美元，即貸款承諾總額的 246 個基點，比上一季增加了 2,100 萬美元。整體 CECL 的成長主要是由經濟狀況以及某些旅館和多戶型房產的具體投入所推動的。

Looking at watch list loans, our one risk-ranked 5 loan represents 1% of the total loan portfolio carrying value. Nine loans equating to 15% of the total loan portfolio carrying value are risk-ranked 4. While all risk-ranked 4 loans are current performing loans, we see potential for increased risk and, accordingly, are monitoring these investments and working with sponsors to ensure the best outcomes.

從觀察名單貸款來看，我們的一項風險排名為 5 的貸款佔貸款組合帳面價值總額的 1%。佔貸款組合帳面價值總額 15% 的 9 筆貸款風險排名為 4。雖然所有風險排名為 4 的貸款均為目前表現良好的貸款，但我們看到風險增加的可能性，因此正在監控這些投資並與贊助商合作，以確保最佳結果。

Moving to our balance sheet, our total at-share undepreciated assets stood at approximately $4.4 billion as of December 31, 2023, a slight decrease in the last quarter. Our debt-to-assets ratio is 62% and our debt-to-equity ratio is 1.8 times, a slight decrease quarter over quarter. We have no corporate debt or final facility maturities due until the second quarter of 2026.

轉向我們的資產負債表，截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日，我們的每股未折舊資產總額約為 44 億美元，較上季略有下降。我們的資產負債比率為62%，負債股本比率為1.8倍，較上季略有下降。在 2026 年第二季之前，我們沒有到期的公司債務或最終融資。

In addition, our liquidity as of today stands at approximately $368 million. This comprises the $203 million of current cash that Mike referenced earlier, as well as $165 million under our credit facility.

此外，截至目前，我們的流動資金約為 3.68 億美元。這包括麥克之前提到的 2.03 億美元當前現金，以及我們信貸額度下的 1.65 億美元。

This concludes our prepared remarks. And with that, let's open it up for questions. Operator?

我們準備好的演講到此結束。接下來，讓我們開始提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Sarah Barcomb, BTIG.

（操作員說明）Sarah Barcomb，BTIG。

Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking the question. I just wanted to dig into the multifamily portfolio here. Are those additional downgrades related to sponsors not willing or unable to buy new interest rate caps for the most part? And can you provide any commentary on your overall exposure to syndicated sponsors that might have bought these properties during that low interest rate period?

嘿大家。感謝您提出問題。我只是想深入了解這裡的多戶型投資組合。這些額外的降級是否與贊助商大多不願意或無法購買新的利率上限有關？您能否對您對可能在低利率期間購買這些房產的銀團贊助商的整體風險發表評論？

Hey, Sarah, it's Mazzei. I'll start off with that. I think Andy can add some color there as well. So the downgrades were -- there are some syndicators in that. Yes, I think that syndicator exists across many portfolios. There are issues with execution on those specific properties. Some of them are related, as Andy said in his stated remarks. There were COVID-related policies that inhibited owners from moving tenants out of the assets.

嘿，莎拉，我是馬澤。我將從這個開始。我認為安迪也可以在那裡添加一些色彩。所以降級是——其中有一些辛迪加。是的，我認為辛迪加存在於許多投資組合中。這些特定屬性的執行存在問題。正如安迪在他的演講中所說，其中一些是相關的。與新冠疫情相關的政策禁止業主將租戶遷出資產。

And so there were value-add issues in terms of, the business plans, in terms of executing on value add. So we had some of those issues. With regard to the property that went on REO, as Andy said, it could take us a couple of quarters, several quarters to move out of that.

因此，在業務計劃、執行增值方面存在增值問題。所以我們遇到了其中一些問題。至於 REO 上的房產，正如安迪所說，我們可能需要幾個季度、幾個季度才能搬出去。

So yeah, we had some issues with the syndicator. We are closely monitoring that. Our exposure is limited. It's been a handful of assets that we've had. One of the assets on the watch list is being supported by the preferred equity behind the asset, but we continue to have it on the watch list as well.

是的，我們與辛迪加人之間存在一些問題。我們正在密切關注這一情況。我們的曝光度是有限的。這是我們擁有的少量資產。觀察名單上的一項資產得到了該資產背後的優先股的支持，但我們也繼續將其列入觀察名單。

In terms of interest rate caps across the portfolio, multifamily borrowers are buying caps. They are seeing visibility in terms of ultimately getting across the bridge, as Andy said, through the supply and getting on with their programs. So borrowers, generally in multifamily, have been sticking with the assets and buying caps.

就整個投資組合的利率上限而言，多戶家庭借款人正在購買上限。正如安迪所說，他們看到了最終通過供應並繼續實施他們的計劃的可見性。因此，借款人（通常是多戶家庭）一直堅持資產和購買上限。

Andy, anything you'd like to add to that?

安迪，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

No, I think, Mike, you covered it. The one asset that went from a risk-ranked 5 to REO is currently in the process of going through renovations and lease-up, and that's a process that we expect to transpire over the next couple, three quarters, after which time we expect to take that asset to market on a more stabilized basis.

不，我想，麥克，你已經涵蓋了。從風險排名為 5 的一項資產目前正在裝修和租賃過程中，我們預計這一過程將在未來幾個、三個季度內完成，在此之後我們預計在更穩定的基礎上將該資產推向市場。

Okay, great. Yeah, we've seen some of these multifamily noise across the space this quarter, and that's to be expected just given where SOFR is these days. But just shifting over to office, it seems like there's some positive telegraphs here for the office portfolio, expecting some repays in the future here. There was one downgrade, but it wasn't watch-listed. Basically, my question is, at this stage, do you feel that the office credit is pretty well ring-fenced at this point?

好的，太好了。是的，本季度我們已經看到了一些多戶家庭的噪音，考慮到 SOFR 目前的狀況，這是可以預料到的。但剛轉到辦公室，辦公室投資組合似乎有一些正面的訊號，預計未來會得到一些回報。有一次降級，但未列入觀察名單。基本上，我的問題是，在這個階段，您是否認為辦公室信用在這一點上受到了很好的限制？

I wouldn't go as far as to say that. Honestly, I don't think anybody can, given the work-from-home issues that are out there. The issue with office is going to be getting taken out of those assets with refinancing. And so I think right now, that has proven to be very difficult, and you're seeing that being reflected in some of the severities on loans that have been taken back.

我不會這麼說。老實說，考慮到目前存在的在家工作問題，我認為沒有人可以做到。辦公室的問題將透過再融資從這些資產中解決。所以我認為現在這已經被證明是非常困難的，你會看到這反映在一些已收回的貸款的嚴重性上。

So generally, on office, I'd say, as Andy said, we are in the process of selling the Washington, DC, asset. I think we have some encouragement there on the number of bids we got, and we're working through reviewing those bids now, and we'll have something more to say on that.

因此，總的來說，在辦公室裡，正如安迪所說，我們正在出售華盛頓特區的資產。我認為我們收到的投標數量受到了一些鼓勵，我們現在正在審查這些投標，我們將對此有更多的話要說。

Generally, in the office portfolio, the Q4, it was, Sarah, stable. We didn't see anything that was slipping materially. We have had some successes. As Andy said, the largest asset that we have has indicated that they're paying off the loan. The South Pasadena asset with the upsizing and zoning was so substantial that we actually may recharacterize the loan. The Baltimore asset, which we've talked about in previous quarters, is now 90% leased with what will be, when the tenant takes occupancy, a very high debt yield.

總的來說，在辦公產品組合中，第四季度，莎拉，很穩定。我們沒有看到任何實質的下滑。我們已經取得了一些成功。正如安迪所說，我們擁有的最大資產表明他們正在償還貸款。南帕薩迪納的資產規模擴大和分區規模如此之大，以至於我們實際上可以重新描述這筆貸款。我們在前幾季討論過的巴爾的摩資產目前已出租 90%，當租戶入住時，債務收益率將非常高。

In San Francisco, we have two assets that are smaller. Both are fully occupied with new leases. We did a spec deal in LA for a single tenant that is now going to be fully occupied. And as Andy also mentioned, there are assets on the horizon that we think are going to pay off, most notably an office asset in Florida. So we've seen some good positive movement there. But for the rest of the portfolio, it's about visibility for the borrowers.

在舊金山，我們有兩個規模較小的資產。兩者都已被新租約佔用。我們在洛杉磯為一個租戶做了一筆規格交易，該租戶現在將被完全佔用。正如安迪也提到的，我們認為即將帶來回報的資產，尤其是佛羅裡達州的辦公資產。所以我們在那裡看到了一些積極的進展。但對於投資組合的其餘部分來說，這關係到借款人的可見性。

And unlike what I just said about multifamily, where borrowers see housing shortage and over the horizon, they say, these are assets that we know will ultimately perform. So they're sticking with them generally. And we're seeing a lot of liquidity in that market. The REO asset that we are working with the borrower, he's marketing the asset for sale on that. And I think they're seeing a lot of interest in that asset.

與我剛才所說的多戶家庭不同，借款人看到住房短缺並且即將到來，他們說，這些是我們知道最終會發揮作用的資產。所以他們一般都會堅持下去。我們看到該市場有大量流動性。我們正在與借款人合作的 REO 資產，他正在行銷該資產以供出售。我認為他們看到了人們對該資產的濃厚興趣。

There's not much more I can say, but there's a lot of interest and a lot of liquidity on the multifamily side.

我沒什麼好說的，但多戶住宅方面有很多興趣和大量流動性。

The office assets, those are the assets we'll be watching more closely in terms of confidence around deploying capital. So while we've had some market improvement this quarter in terms of what will be a reduction in the portfolio, I still think going forward, that's the area that we'll be watching more closely because those borrowers have the least liquidity in terms of refinancing.

就資本部署的信心而言，我們將更密切關注辦公資產。因此，雖然本季度我們在投資組合減少方面取得了一些市場改善，但我仍然認為，展望未來，這是我們將更密切關注的領域，因為這些借款人的流動性最少。再融資。

But otherwise, the quarter was -- for the balance of the portfolio, the quarter was absolutely stable, yes.

但除此之外，本季——對於投資組合的平衡而言，本季絕對穩定，是的。

(Operator Instructions) Stephen Laws, Raymond James.

（操作員說明）Stephen Laws、Raymond James。

Hi, good morning. Mike, I guess to start, it seems like you're incrementally positive as you look out later into this year. What prevents you from going on offense sooner given the very low leverage and liquidity position? Do you want to see the expected repays on office get across the finish line? Is it something else that you want to see macro, maybe rates, start to roll over and get better visibly? Given the kind of seems like improving tone, why do you feel the need to wait another four to six months to kind of go back on offense?

早安.麥克，我想首先，當你展望今年晚些時候時，你似乎越來越積極。鑑於槓桿率和流動性狀況非常低，是什麼阻止您更快地進攻？您想看到辦公室的預期回報衝過終點線嗎？您還希望看到宏觀經濟（也許是利率）開始回滾並明顯改善嗎？考慮到這種基調似乎有所改善，為什麼你覺得需要再等四到六個月才能重新進攻？

Well, first of all, I don't think we're missing anything in the next four months. I think the transaction levels are still low because borrowers cannot get the proceeds out for their existing assets and transactions have been a lot slower because of rates.

嗯，首先，我認為我們在接下來的四個月裡不會錯過任何事情。我認為交易水準仍然很低，因為借款人無法從現有資產中取出收益，而且由於利率的原因，交易速度要慢得多。

In terms of us and why we're waiting, first of all, we have to get more confidence around the stability of the portfolio, as I said in the prepared remarks. We want to see more stabilization there because the first constituent that we look at is our banks. We want to make sure the banks are protected, and we have the cash to do so. No banks, no mortgage REITs. Let's just be direct about that. So our banks are priority number one.

就我們而言以及我們為何等待，首先，正如我在準備好的演講中所說，我們必須對投資組合的穩定性更有信心。我們希望看到那裡更加穩定，因為我們首先關注的是我們的銀行。我們希望確保銀行受到保護，並且我們有足夠的現金來做到這一點。沒有銀行，沒有抵押房地產投資信託基金。讓我們直接說。所以我們的銀行是第一要務。

In terms of new investments, when we look at it, there's been a lot of talk about buybacks. We've repeatedly said that we don't see buybacks as really moving the needle. They're small. They don't do much in terms of moving the stock price. We don't want to shrink our capital base. And so really, we're looking at new investments over buybacks. And when we do the new investments, it's really about the confidence in how we would spend our cash.

就新投資而言，當我們審視它時，有很多關於回購的討論。我們一再表示，我們認為回購並不會真正起到推動作用。它們很小。他們在推動股價方面沒有做太多事情。我們不想縮減我們的資本基礎。事實上，我們正​​在考慮新的投資而不是回購。當我們進行新投資時，這實際上關係到我們對如何使用現金的信心。

And for the second half of the year, if we could get some of the things we talked about accomplished in the first half, improving the watch list, getting some movement on the REO, then I think we'll have the confidence to start spending cash. And that's really more of a second half of the year thing. And maybe we can look to deploying something like $50 million to $75 million of cash in the second half if we can get some really good visibility on the balance sheet in the first half of the year.

對於下半年，如果我們能夠完成上半年討論的一些事情，改善觀察名單，在 REO 上取得一些進展，那麼我認為我們將有信心開始支出現金。這其實更多是下半年的事情。如果我們能夠在上半年的資產負債表上獲得一些非常好的可視性，也許我們可以考慮在下半年部署 5,000 萬至 7,500 萬美元的現金。

As we mentioned, we do have, and you mentioned, we have $100 million of REO that is under or totally not levered. Hopefully we'll get some tailwind on the Long Island City REO. We do have a lot of interest coming on that asset, particularly one specific user that may have interest in the Paragon asset and overflow into the Blanchard asset.

正如我們所提到的，我們確實有，而且您也提到過，我們有 1 億美元的 REO 處於槓桿狀態或完全沒有槓桿狀態。希望我們能在長島市 REO 上獲得一些順風。我們確實對該資產有很多興趣，特別是一個可能對 Paragon 資產感興趣並溢出到 Blanchard 資產的特定用戶。

So right now, really looking to stabilize the portfolio further and get the confidence in the second half of the year. And I think, by the way, if we can get -- if we can deliver more certainty around the asset performance, and we're all talking about stock prices, I think the largest thing embedded in our 60%, where we're trading 60% of book value, is uncertainty.

所以現在，我們真的希望進一步穩定投資組合，並在下半年獲得信心。順便說一句，我認為，如果我們能夠——如果我們能夠圍繞資產表現提供更多確定性，而且我們都在談論股票價格，我認為我們 60% 的人中最重要的是，我們現在交易帳面價值的60%，是不確定性的。

So really, removing some of that uncertainty by stabilizing the portfolio and executing on the watch list and removing some of the REO, that we think is going to be the bigger impact on the stock price and getting it up over 60% of book.

因此，實際上，透過穩定投資組合、在觀察名單上執行並刪除一些 REO 來消除一些不確定性，我們認為這將對股價產生更大的影響，使其上漲超過帳面價值的 60%。

But I'll also add, in terms of opportunities, as I said on the call, I mean, there are thousands of regional banks out there, smaller banks that we weren't even looking at, that were originating loans and participating in commercial real estate lending. And virtually, every bank that comes out on their earnings call has to lead off with, our real estate exposure is only X. And we don't have exposure to New York City Multi.

但我還要補充一點，就機會而言，正如我在電話會議上所說，我的意思是，有數千家地區性銀行，我們甚至沒有考慮過的小型銀行，它們正在發放貸款並參與商業活動。房地產貸款。事實上，每家銀行在財報電話會議上都必須以「我們的房地產風險敞口只有 X」開頭。而且我們沒有紐約市綜合性房地產的風險敞口。

And so what we're seeing that coupled with Basel III, we're going to see the banks not originate as much, maybe pull back. And as I said on the call, construction loans, as they come through, they would normally refi those into mini perms. And then those loans would find permanent financing later. We think the evolution of those loans are going to be from construction, and they're going to come off balance sheet, and the non-banks and debt funds will have an opportunity to do what would have been the mini perms that the banks would have done.

因此，我們看到，與巴塞爾協議 III 相結合，我們將看到銀行的創始規模不再那麼大，甚至可能會縮減。正如我在電話中所說，建築貸款在發放時，通常會將其重新融資為迷你貸款。然後這些貸款稍後會找到永久融資。我們認為這些貸款的演變將來自於建築業，它們將脫離資產負債表，非銀行和債務基金將有機會做銀行將要實施的迷你優惠政策。完成了。

So we think that the will from the banks to originate loans has diminished greatly, and they're all going to have a bias toward shrinking their portfolios. And there are so many of them out there that we weren't even looking at, that we didn't even hear of, know of. I think all of that is going to be coming at us in 2024. So I think there'll be ample opportunity for the non-banks to have product.

因此，我們認為銀行發放貸款的意願已經大大減弱，他們都會傾向於縮減投資組合。其中有太多我們甚至沒有看過、甚至沒聽過、不知道的。我認為這一切都將在 2024 年降臨到我們身上。因此，我認為非銀行機構將有充足的機會擁有產品。

I appreciate the color there. It'd be certainly interesting to watch the return to some of those banks and opportunities that provides. Can you touch a little bit more on the property level and multifamily? I've heard a couple of others mention some underperforming or non-performing tenants that have been stuck in assets due to some COVID policies. When did that start to change? And is it easier now to get those tenants out and replace with new tenants? Can you talk about that process of what you're seeing kind of re-tenanting some of these multifamily assets?

我很欣賞那裡的顏色。觀察其中一些銀行的回報及其提供的機會肯定會很有趣。您能多談談房地產層面和多戶型住宅嗎？我聽說其他一些人提到一些表現不佳或表現不佳的租戶由於一些新冠疫情政策而被困在資產中。這種情況什麼時候開始改變？現在讓這些租戶搬出去並更換新租戶是否更容易？您能談談您所看到的重新租賃其中一些多戶型資產的過程嗎？

Andy, do you want to lead off with that?

安迪，你想以此作為開頭嗎？

(multiple speakers) Sure. Thank you, Mike.

（多個發言者）當然。謝謝你，麥克。

So I think we have seen an easing of some of the COVID policies. Those have oftentimes been regional in nature, so they've rolled off over different periods of time. But generally what occurred was the inability to access units and start the renovation process and execute on the business plan, the value-add business plan. And so it affected the borrowers' cash flows and so forth.

所以我認為我們已經看到一些新冠政策有所放鬆。這些通常是區域性的，因此它們會在不同的時間段內發生。但通常發生的情況是無法進入單位並開始裝修過程並執行業務計劃，即增值業務計劃。因此它影響了借款人的現金流等等。

And what we're seeing now is borrowers are able to get to the assets, take them through renovation, and get them stabilized. So it was a period where, often times, the borrower just wasn't able to execute their business plan and it was at great expense to them. Now we're seeing less of those impediments and the opportunity to go ahead and execute on that plan.

我們現在看到的是，借款人能夠獲得資產，對其進行翻新，並使其穩定下來。因此，在這個時期，借款人常常無法執行他們的商業計劃，這給他們帶來了巨大的損失。現在，我們看到這些障礙越來越少，並且有機會繼續執行該計劃。

(Operator Instructions) Matthew Erdner, JonesTrading.

（操作員指示）Matthew Erdner，JonesTrading。

Hey, good morning, guys. Thanks for taking the question. So kind of following up on the prior one, as loans kind of pay off and some REO gets sold, is there a minimum or I guess maximum amount of cash that you guys want to defend the portfolio before you start turning to offense and deploy some additional cash into new loans?

嘿，早上好，夥計們。感謝您提出問題。那麼，在前一項的基礎上，隨著貸款的還清和一些 REO 的出售，在開始進攻並部署一些 REO 之前，你們想要捍衛投資組合的現金數量是否有最低或我猜最高金額？額外的現金用於新貸款？

Well, I think that we've had a policy in the past. I know that we've had a policy in the past. We want to maintain minimum cash. We have a revolver, and we really have never tapped the revolver and we don't look to doing that. So I think in terms of minimum cash, it'd be probably something like circa $100 million in this market. I think previously before the Fed's hikes, we were looking at more like $75 million. So I think we want to have a little bit more cash because of the uncertainties I outlined earlier.

嗯，我認為我們過去有過一項政策。我知道我們過去有過一項政策。我們希望保持最低限度的現金。我們有一把左輪手槍，但我們確實從未使用過左輪手槍，而且我們也不打算這樣做。因此，我認為就最低現金而言，這個市場可能約為 1 億美元。我認為在聯準會升息之前，我們的目標是 7,500 萬美元左右。因此，我認為由於我之前概述的不確定性，我們希望擁有更多的現金。

And as I said, there's a lot that we can tap into. Certainly the REO, our largest asset is also probably the least levered asset on our warehouse lines right now. So if that asset resolves itself, which we expect, then we should free up capital there that we can re-lever.

正如我所說，我們可以利用很多東西。當然，我們最大的資產 REO 也可能是目前我們倉庫中槓桿率最低的資產。因此，如果該資產按照我們的預期自行解決，那麼我們應該釋放資本，以便重新利用槓桿。

And then overall, our leverage at 1.8 times is among the lowest in the peer group. Some folks are hovering around mid-twos. Some folks are hovering in the fours. We're at 1.8. So we have to figure out a way to lever up the portfolio. Some of that will be by just doing new loans and putting 75%, 80% leverage against those.

整體而言，我們的槓桿率為 1.8 倍，是同業中最低的。有些人徘徊在兩歲左右。有些人四肢著地徘徊。我們現在是1.8。因此，我們必須找到一種方法來槓桿化投資組合。其中一些將透過發放新貸款並對這些貸款施加 75%、80% 的槓桿來實現。

So right now, $200 million of cash. Hopefully we'll harvest some of this REO over the next several quarters and be able to redeploy that, get resolution on our largest loan, which is very under-levered. And I think minimum is probably something about -- maintaining about $100 million cash on the balance sheet, at least through the early parts of 2025.

所以現在有2億美元的現金。希望我們能在接下來的幾季收穫一些 REO，並能夠重新部署它，解決我們槓桿率非常低的最大貸款。我認為最低限度可能是——至少在 2025 年初保持資產負債表上約 1 億美元的現金。

Yes, that's helpful there. And then in terms of new loans, are you guys kind of scouting out or looking at some deals in the marketplace, even though you might not take them until second half? And if so, what's kind of the asset type and geographic region that you guys want to target when you do go back on offense?

是的，這很有幫助。然後就新貸款而言，你們是否在市場上尋找或尋找一些交易，即使你們可能要等到下半年才會接受它們？如果是這樣，當你們重新進攻時，你們想要瞄準什麼樣的資產類型和地理區域？

I would say that the periscope is up, and we are looking, absolutely. We've been attending all the conferences. Our originators have stayed in contact with their constituents and are actively involved in getting color on the market today.

我想說潛望鏡已經升起，我們正在觀察，絕對的。我們參加了所有的會議。我們的創辦人一直與他們的選民保持聯繫，並積極參與將色彩推向市場。

I think much like some of the other guys in the peer group have stated, we are focused on multifamily hotel and not really office. It would have to be a very, very unique opportunity for us to be involved in putting on an office asset. And we would need our bank lenders. It would have to be such an opportunity that our bank lenders would have to agree with us and they'd want to finance that.

我認為就像同行中其他一些人所說的那樣，我們專注於多戶型酒店而不是真正的辦公室。對我們來說，參與建立辦公資產肯定是一個非常非常獨特的機會。我們需要銀行貸款人。這必須是一個這樣的機會，我們的銀行貸款人必須同意我們的意見，並且他們願意為此提供資金。

The CLO market, we've seen all multifamily come through to date and that's a great vehicle for financing. That'll guide us to doing more multifamily as well. I think that the opportunity is going to be construction. The banks, as I said, normally did the mini perms; I think the banks are going to be running away from that.

在 CLO 市場上，我們迄今為止已經看到了所有多戶住宅的發展，這是一個很好的融資工具。這也將引導我們做更多的多戶家庭。我認為機會將在於建築。正如我所說，銀行通常會進行迷你燙髮；我認為銀行將會逃避這一點。

In terms of region, everyone talks about the oversupply in the southeast and southwest, but I would still say that there are certain states that are doing the best that they possibly can to chase residents out of the state. And we think that's going to actually continue.

就地區而言，每個人都在談論東南部和西南部的供應過剩，但我仍然想說，某些州正在盡最大努力將居民趕出州。我們認為這種情況實際上將會持續下去。

So as long as that continues and we're seeing quality-of-life issues and budget soaring in some of these states, and taxes potentially going up while there is supply that is in the southeast that everyone is talking about, we think over the horizon, as Andy said in his prepared remarks, you get out 18 months, the pipelines really dissipate. So we think those regions of the US are still the best regions to lend in.

因此，只要這種情況持續下去，我們就會看到其中一些州的生活品質問題和預算飆升，稅收可能會上升，而每個人都在談論的東南部有供應，我們會考慮地平線，正如安迪在他準備好的演講中所說，你出去18個月，管道真的消散了。因此，我們認為美國這些地區仍是最適合放款的地區。

Not to say that there won't be pockets that you'll do in other areas. But from a macro perspective, the south side is better than the north side.

並不是說你不會在其他領域做口袋。但從宏觀來看，南邊比北邊好。

Thank you. I would like to turn the call over to Mike Mazzei for closing comments.

謝謝。我想將電話轉給 Mike Mazzei 以徵求結束意見。

Well, thank you all for joining us today and we look forward to speaking again in May where we hope to make some progress on the items that we outlined. Thank you all for joining.

好的，感謝大家今天加入我們，我們期待在五月再次發言，希望在我們概述的項目上取得一些進展。感謝大家的加入。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，感謝您的參與。