Ballard Power Systems Inc (BLDP) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. This is the conference operator. Welcome to the Ballard Power Systems Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2022 Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to Kate Charlton, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

謝謝你的支持。這是會議接線員。歡迎參加 Ballard Power Systems 第四季度和 2022 年全年業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）我現在想將會議轉交給投資者關係副總裁凱特查爾頓。請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and good morning. Welcome to Ballard's Fourth Quarter and Year-End 2022 Financial and Operating Results Conference Call. With us on today's call are Randy MacEwen, Ballard's CEO; and Paul Dobson, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝接線員，早上好。歡迎參加巴拉德 2022 年第四季度和年終財務和經營業績電話會議。與我們一起參加今天電話會議的還有 Ballard 的首席執行官 Randy MacEwen；首席財務官 Paul Dobson。

We will be making forward-looking statements that are based on management's current expectations, beliefs and assumptions concerning future events. Actual results could be materially different. Please refer to our most recent annual information form and other public filings for our complete disclaimer and related information.

我們將根據管理層對未來事件的當前預期、信念和假設做出前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能大不相同。請參閱我們最新的年度信息表和其他公開文件，了解我們完整的免責聲明和相關信息。

Before we discuss the quarter, I would like to provide an update on our Capital Markets Day. We are pleased to announce that our Capital Markets Day is scheduled for June 13, 2023, in Vancouver and will also be viewable online. We will be providing additional information over the coming months. I'll now turn the call over to Randy.

在我們討論本季度之前，我想介紹一下我們資本市場日的最新情況。我們很高興地宣布，我們的資本市場日定於 2023 年 6 月 13 日在溫哥華舉行，也可以在線觀看。我們將在未來幾個月提供更多信息。我現在將電話轉給蘭迪。

Thank you, Kate, and welcome, everyone to today's conference call. With an increasingly constructive policy landscape for hydrogen globally, we're excited by the growing end customer interest to decarbonize mobility and stationary power applications with fuel cells. 2022 proved to be an important year of progress for Ballard as we achieved key customer platform wins across our verticals, of bus, truck, rail and marine, along with early traction in select stationary power applications.

謝謝凱特，歡迎大家參加今天的電話會議。隨著全球氫氣政策環境的建設性日益增強，我們對終端客戶對使用燃料電池使移動和固定電源應用脫碳的興趣日益增長感到興奮。事實證明，2022 年對巴拉德來說是重要的一年，因為我們在公共汽車、卡車、鐵路和船舶等垂直領域贏得了關鍵客戶平台，並在選定的固定式電力應用中取得了早期進展。

This progress is starting to show up in our order backlog. In Q4, we secured new orders totaling $52.2 million. This activity improved our total order backlog, bringing it to approximately $133 million at the end of Q4. As we start 2023, we're seeing continued momentum on customer order intake. We expect to see further growth in our order backlog at the end of Q1.

這一進展開始體現在我們的訂單積壓中。在第四季度，我們獲得了總計 5220 萬美元的新訂單。這項活動改善了我們的總訂單積壓，使其在第四季度末達到約 1.33 億美元。從 2023 年開始，我們看到客戶訂單量持續增長。我們預計在第一季度末我們的訂單積壓將進一步增長。

This strength in our order backlog, as well as a growing sales pipeline reflect progress across all of our verticals. And as a reminder, our strategies develop PEM fuel cell technologies and products that can be applied across multiple market applications. Where our fuel cell technology provides the strongest value proposition and where the barriers to hydrogen refueling are lowest. These markets include bus truck, rail and marine, as well as select stationary power generation and off-road markets. We'll provide a brief update on these applications.

我們訂單積壓的實力以及不斷增長的銷售渠道反映了我們所有垂直領域的進步。提醒一下，我們的戰略是開發可應用於多個市場應用的 PEM 燃料電池技術和產品。我們的燃料電池技術提供最強大的價值主張以及加氫障礙最低的地方。這些市場包括客車、鐵路和船舶，以及特定的固定式發電和越野市場。我們將提供有關這些應用程序的簡要更新。

Our bus vertical continues to see important progress in Europe and the U.S. In 2022, we received purchase orders for approximately 250 modules for fuel cell buses including about 100 in Q4. This represents a roughly 25% year-over-year increase in new bus module orders in these markets. These orders included sales from 9 European bus customers, of which 4 are repeat bus customers and 5 are now new bus OEM relationships.

我們的垂直客車在歐洲和美國繼續取得重要進展。2022 年，我們收到了約 250 個燃料電池客車模塊的採購訂單，其中包括第四季度的約 100 個。這意味著這些市場的新總線模塊訂單同比增長約 25%。這些訂單包括來自 9 個歐洲客車客戶的銷售，其中 4 個是老客車客戶，5 個現在是新的客車 OEM 關係。

These 250 hydrogen fuel cell-powered buses are planned to be deployed across 11 countries over the coming 24 months. This will effectively double the number of fuel cell buses operating in Europe and the U.S. ticking the installed base from the current 250 buses in operation to about 500.

這 250 輛氫燃料電池動力公交車計劃在未來 24 個月內部署在 11 個國家/地區。這將使在歐洲和美國運營的燃料電池公交車的數量有效翻番，安裝基礎從目前運營的 250 輛公交車增加到約 500 輛。

As we look forward, we expect to see this order momentum continue over the coming year. Through 2022 and into early March 2023, there have been announcements by transit operators in European cities with expected tendering activity for an additional 1,000 fuel cell buses to be deployed in Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain and the U.K.

展望未來，我們希望看到這種訂單勢頭在來年繼續下去。從 2022 年到 2023 年 3 月初，歐洲城市的公交運營商已經宣布，預計將在德國、意大利、波蘭、西班牙和英國部署額外的 1,000 輛燃料電池公交車進行招標活動。

We're also seeing a strengthening of our bus sales pipeline in North America. In 2022, Foothill Transit in the L.A. area progressed on its procurement of 31 fuel cell buses, representing approximately 10% of its fleet with New Flyer supplying to fuel cell buses powered by Ballard.

我們還看到我們在北美的巴士銷售渠道正在加強。 2022 年，洛杉磯地區的 Foothill Transit 採購了 31 輛燃料電池公交車，約佔其車隊的 10%，其中 New Flyer 向巴拉德提供動力的燃料電池公交車供貨。

And now for the first time in U.S. history, an American city has indicated plans to deploy more than 100 fuel cell buses. So this is very, very exciting. We believe we're well positioned to participate in supporting the rollout of larger fleet deployments of fuel cell buses.

現在，美國歷史上第一次有一個美國城市表示計劃部署 100 多輛燃料電池公交車。所以這非常非常令人興奮。我們相信我們有能力參與支持更大規模的燃料電池公共汽車車隊部署。

Now taking a look at the truck market. In September of last year, we announced a deeper strategic partnership with Quantron, a global electric vehicle integrator and an emerging specialty OEM to accelerate fuel cell truck adoption. Ballard will serve as exclusive fuel cell supplier to Quantron for their 44-ton fuel cell electric truck platforms.

現在看看卡車市場。去年 9 月，我們宣布與全球電動汽車集成商和新興專業 OEM Quantron 建立更深層次的戰略合作夥伴關係，以加速燃料電池卡車的採用。巴拉德將作為 Quantron 的 44 噸燃料電池電動卡車平台的獨家燃料電池供應商。

As part of our strategic partnership, Quantron committed to purchase 17 megawatts of modules, which are expected to be delivered over the next 2 years.

作為我們戰略合作夥伴關係的一部分，Quantron 承諾購買 17 兆瓦的組件，預計將在未來 2 年內交付。

Beyond Quantron, we're seeing increasing interest from other truck integrators and upfitters to use our products in various truck platforms. We are pleased to see a more diverse set of customers' interest in our products which complement discussions for longer-term supply of modules in heavy-duty truck applications.

除了 Quantron，我們還看到其他卡車集成商和改裝商越來越有興趣在各種卡車平台上使用我們的產品。我們很高興看到更多不同的客戶對我們的產品感興趣，這補充了對重型卡車應用中模塊的長期供應的討論。

We see strengthening market signals at the value of hydrogen-powered fuel cell trucks in certain classes and use cases will achieve high volume, given the clear advantages of range, refuel time and payload. There's also a growing understanding relating the infrastructure challenges associated with electrification of this market. We look forward to highlighting our insights and the value proposition of fuel cell trucks including the comparative total cost of ownership, which we have a new model for in June at our Capital Markets Day.

考慮到續航里程、加油時間和有效載荷方面的明顯優勢，我們看到某些類別和用例中氫動力燃料電池卡車價值的市場信號越來越強烈，將實現高銷量。人們也越來越了解與該市場電氣化相關的基礎設施挑戰。我們期待著強調我們對燃料電池卡車的見解和價值主張，包括比較總擁有成本，我們在 6 月的資本市場日推出了新車型。

In the rail market, we ended the year with exciting announcement of the first commercial-scale order totaling up to 40 megawatts of fuel cell engines from Siemens for passenger commuter rail in Germany. The first 14 fuel cell modules are expected to be delivered on schedule in 2023 for deployment in the Berlin area.

在鐵路市場，我們在年底激動人心地宣布了西門子為德國客運通勤鐵路訂購的總功率高達 40 兆瓦的燃料電池發動機的第一份商業規模訂單。首批 14 個燃料電池模塊預計將於 2023 年如期交付，部署在柏林地區。

In 2022, we saw additional progress in the commuter rail market as we received an initial order from Stadler, the California market.

2022 年，我們看到了通勤鐵路市場的額外進展，因為我們收到了加州市場 Stadler 的初始訂單。

For freight locomotive applications, hydrogen fuel cells have a unique and compelling value proposition as a zero mission, one-to-one replacement to incumbent diesel electric powertrains. With diesel fuel accounting for both the #1 operating cost and emissions source, fuel cells offer similar performance for these long heavy trains without requiring overhead catenary infrastructure.

對於貨運機車應用，氫燃料電池作為零任務、一對一替代現有柴油電動動力總成具有獨特且引人注目的價值主張。由於柴油燃料佔運營成本和排放源的第一位，因此燃料電池可為這些長距離重型列車提供類似的性能，而無需架空接觸網基礎設施。

While the freight locomotive market is still early, we expect continued progress in 2023, further illustrating the strong value proposition and technology advantages of Ballard's fuel cell engines.

雖然貨運機車市場仍處於早期階段，但我們預計 2023 年將繼續取得進展，進一步說明巴拉德燃料電池發動機的強大價值主張和技術優勢。

In the marine market, we made important progress in 2022. In Q4, we saw almost 40% quarter-over-quarter backlog growth after receiving an initial order for FCwave modules from Amogy and an order for containership application. There's also an important milestone in late 2022 as Norled's MF Hydra, the world's first hydrogen-powered ferry is now on water and expected to be put in service later this year.

在海事市場，我們在 2022 年取得了重要進展。在收到 Amogy 的 FCwave 模塊初始訂單和集裝箱船應用訂單後，第四季度我們看到積壓訂單環比增長近 40%。 2022 年底還有一個重要的里程碑，因為 Norled 的 MF Hydra 是世界上第一艘氫動力渡輪，現已在水上航行，預計將於今年晚些時候投入使用。

The regulatory environment continues to undergo a change for marine emissions. The current IMO target is to cut maritime CO2 emissions by at least 40% by 2030. And in November, the European CO2 emission trading scheme was extended to apply to the shipping sector, covering all vessels greater than 5,000 tons starting from 2025.

海洋排放的監管環境繼續發生變化。目前 IMO 的目標是到 2030 年將海上二氧化碳排放量至少減少 40%。並且在 11 月，歐洲二氧化碳排放交易計劃擴展到適用於航運部門，從 2025 年開始涵蓋所有 5,000 噸以上的船舶。

Moving to the Stationary Power Generation market. While this market for fuel cells continues to be early stage, we received a key new customer win from CrossWind in the quarter, validating our product for fuel cell power generation from excess wind capacity.

轉向固定發電市場。雖然這個燃料電池市場仍處於早期階段，但我們在本季度從 CrossWind 贏得了一個重要的新客戶，驗證了我們的產品用於利用過剩風力發電的燃料電池發電。

Early in 2023, we received a follow-on order from a stationary power customer that has a multiyear relationship with Ballard, and we expect to lead to higher volume orders. We continue to see interest from customers in EV charging, backup power for data centers, peaking and shore power applications.

2023 年初，我們收到了與巴拉德有多年合作關係的固定電力客戶的後續訂單，我們預計會帶來更多訂單。我們繼續看到客戶對 EV 充電、數據中心備用電源、調峰和岸電應用的興趣。

In the mining sector, we recently announced an order from First Mode for modules totaling 3 megawatts to power several hybrid hydrogen and battery ultra-class mining haul trucks, which we classify under our emerging markets vertical.

在採礦領域，我們最近宣布了來自 First Mode 的一份總功率為 3 兆瓦的模塊訂單，為幾輛混合氫和電池超一流採礦卡車提供動力，我們將其歸類為新興市場垂直領域。

In January this year, First Mode entered into a global supply agreement with Anglo American to retrofit over 400 ultra-class haul trucks with our new gen solution, including a 1.2 megawatt of fuel cells per truck. The Ballard fuel cells will be integrated in the next several power plants built by First Mode, and we look forward to a long-term relationship to help drive decarbonization in this difficult to abate sector.

今年 1 月，First Mode 與 Anglo American 簽訂了全球供應協議，使用我們的新一代解決方案改造 400 多輛超一流運輸卡車，包括每輛卡車 1.2 兆瓦的燃料電池。巴拉德燃料電池將集成到 First Mode 建造的接下來的幾座發電廠中，我們期待建立長期合作關係，以幫助推動這個難以減排的行業的脫碳。

As noted earlier, our order backlog at the end of the quarter stood at $133 million. Of this, close to $100 million are Power Products orders, which now represents over 70% of the total backlog. Throughout 2022, we've seen a steady climb in our Power Product order backlog, which has more than doubled since the end of 2021, and illustrates our success helping customers begin deploying fuel cells at greater numbers.

如前所述，本季度末我們的訂單積壓為 1.33 億美元。其中，近 1 億美元是電源產品訂單，目前佔總積壓訂單的 70% 以上。整個 2022 年，我們看到電源產品訂單積壓穩步攀升，自 2021 年底以來增加了一倍多，這說明我們成功地幫助客戶開始更多地部署燃料電池。

This growth has been masked by the planned and expected backlog decrease in Technology Solutions. Throughout 2022, we also highlighted our increased customer and revenue diversification, demonstrating the value of our regional and applications go-to-market strategy. As compared to Q4 2021, we've seen a 20% increase in customers with orders of over $1 million.

這種增長被技術解決方案計劃和預期的積壓減少所掩蓋。在整個 2022 年，我們還強調了我們增加的客戶和收入多元化，展示了我們的區域和應用程序上市戰略的價值。與 2021 年第四季度相比，訂單超過 100 萬美元的客戶增加了 20%。

Now looking at our key geographic markets. In Europe, there's a steady flow of news around continued policy support. Indeed, just yesterday, the EU published a ramp of new policies supporting hydrogen fuel cells, including the Net Zero Industry Act. The European Commission has also recently agreed on definitions of renewable hydrogen that we expect will translate into higher levels of confidence for developers of hydrogen production facilities. And notably, over 70% of our 2022 order intake was attributed to Europe.

現在看看我們的主要地理市場。在歐洲，有關持續政策支持的消息源源不斷。事實上，就在昨天，歐盟發布了一系列支持氫燃料電池的新政策，包括《淨零工業法》。歐盟委員會最近還就可再生氫的定義達成一致，我們預計這將為製氫設施開發商帶來更高的信心。值得注意的是，我們 2022 年的訂單量中有超過 70% 來自歐洲。

Moving to the U.S. We expect continued demand growth for our technology in the U.S. as previously announced policies such as the IRA, which is really game-changing, materialize over the next 12 to 36 months, particularly as the hydrogen hubs and hydrogen production tax credit programs begin to translate into increased availability of low-cost low-carbon hydrogen for end users.

轉移到美國 我們預計美國對我們技術的需求將持續增長，因為之前宣布的政策（例如真正改變遊戲規則的 IRA）將在未來 12 至 36 個月內實現，特別是隨著氫氣中心和氫氣生產稅收抵免計劃開始轉化為為最終用戶增加低成本低碳氫的可用性。

Concurrently, we've seen customer interest, order intake and revenue generation all increased from North American customers in the past 12 months. In North America accounted for nearly 1/4 of the 2022 total corporate order intake. We made significant progress on the build-out of our previously announced facility in Oregon over the past number of months, and we expect to support the assembly of fuel cell engines for the U.S. market operational in the coming months.

同時，在過去的 12 個月中，我們看到北美客戶的客戶興趣、訂單量和創收均有所增加。北美佔2022年企業總訂單量的近1/4。在過去的幾個月裡，我們在俄勒岡州之前宣布的工廠建設方面取得了重大進展，我們預計將在未來幾個月為美國市場運營的燃料電池發動機組裝提供支持。

Now moving to China. We continue to be disappointed with the delayed adoption in the China market and with low activity levels at the Weichai-Ballard JV, which weighed on our 2022 results. Now we're working closely with our Weichai-Ballard JV to unlock growth in the China fuel cell bus and truck markets. And indeed, we're encouraged with some of the exciting opportunities in the JV sales pipeline for fuel cell buses and trucks.

現在搬到中國。我們繼續對中國市場的延遲採用以及濰柴-巴拉德合資企業的低活動水平感到失望，這對我們 2022 年的業績造成了壓力。現在，我們正與我們的濰柴巴拉德合資企業密切合作，以釋放中國燃料電池客車和卡車市場的增長潛力。事實上，我們對燃料電池公共汽車和卡車的合資銷售管道中的一些令人興奮的機會感到鼓舞。

2022 revenues from China represent one of the smallest proportions of total revenues in recent years, driven by the subdued transport activity resulting from COVID policies, and a slower rollout of FCEV subsidies.

2022 年來自中國的收入佔總收入的比例是近年來最小的，這是由於 COVID 政策導致的運輸活動低迷以及 FCEV 補貼的推出速度放緩。

Despite the short-term pressures, we maintain our expectation that China will be the largest market for the adoption of hydrogen and for fuel cell vehicles in the mid- to long term. And our expectations are bolstered by the government's prioritization of energy security in the 20th Congress, a development is expected to drive additional support renewables and green hydrogen.

儘管存在短期壓力，但我們仍然預計中國將成為中長期採用氫能和燃料電池汽車的最大市場。我們的預期得到了政府在第 20 屆國會上將能源安全列為優先事項的支持，這一發展有望推動對可再生能源和綠色氫能的額外支持。

In 2022, China registered approximately 5,000 new hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles predominantly located in the initial demonstration clusters of Beijing, including in support of the 2022 Olympics and Shanghai, bringing the total number of fuel cell vehicles on road in China to over 12,000. This illustrates the relatively modest, by China standards, but continued growth of hydrogen adoption.

2022 年，中國登記了約 5,000 輛新的氫燃料電池電動汽車，主要分佈在北京的初始示範集群，包括支持 2022 年奧運會和上海，使中國道路上的燃料電池汽車總數超過 12,000 輛。這表明，按照中國標準，氫氣採用率相對適中，但持續增長。

As at the end of the year, there are now over 200 hydrogen fueling stations in operation in China with an additional 70 under construction. To succeed in China, we'll require a local presence, a point we spoke at length about in our Q3 earnings call where we provided detail on our plan to make a significant investment to qualify as a local manufacturer of MEAs in China by setting up an MEA manufacturing facility and R&D innovation center in Shanghai.

截至年底，中國已運營加氫站200餘座，在建加氫站70餘座。為了在中國取得成功，我們需要在當地開展業務，我們在第三季度財報電話會議上詳細討論了這一點，我們在會上詳細說明了我們計劃進行重大投資以通過設立位於上海的 MEA 製造工廠和研發創新中心。

Shifting to our financials in the quarter. In Q4, Ballard delivered $20.5 million in revenue with approximately 70% of our revenue coming from heavy-duty motive applications. This is an increase of roughly 10 points from the prior quarter and demonstrates again the continued progress in our planned evolution into a technology products company.

轉向我們本季度的財務狀況。在第四季度，巴拉德實現了 2050 萬美元的收入，其中大約 70% 的收入來自重型動力應用。這比上一季度增加了大約 10 個百分點，再次表明我們在向技術產品公司發展的計劃中取得了持續進展。

Over the past year, there's been increasing shift and change in our revenue mix by geographic markets as compared to 2021. As we discussed on the Q3 call, continued gross margin pressures was partly affected by our pricing strategy to secure customer platform wins. The further downward pressure on gross margins in Q4 was driven by a combination of a shift in revenue mix, higher fixed overhead costs and inventory adjustments. We expect challenging gross margin dynamics to persist into 2024 until our volumes ramp, and our production cost reduction initiatives move into real production.

與 2021 年相比，在過去的一年裡，我們按地域市場劃分的收入組合發生了越來越多的變化。正如我們在第三季度電話會議上所討論的那樣，持續的毛利率壓力部分受到我們確保客戶平台獲勝的定價策略的影響。第四季度毛利率進一步下行的壓力是由收入結構的變化、更高的固定間接費用和庫存調整共同推動的。我們預計具有挑戰性的毛利率動態將持續到 2024 年，直到我們的產量增加，並且我們的生產成本降低計劃進入實際生產。

Now in Q4, we recognized post-acquisition restructuring charges and costs related to our BMS acquisition. There are 2 high-value activities for BMS going forward that I wanted to highlight. First, we're using BMS hydrogen fuel cell powertrain integration experience and capabilities to help Ballard customers, typically vehicle OEMs, integrate Ballard fuel cell engines into their heavy-duty platforms by providing engineering support for application engineering, powertrain integration and even in some cases, vehicle integration.

現在在第四季度，我們確認了與 BMS 收購相關的收購後重組費用和成本。我想強調 BMS 未來的 2 項高價值活動。首先，我們正在利用 BMS 氫燃料電池動力總成集成經驗和能力，通過為應用工程、動力總成集成甚至在某些情況下提供工程支持，幫助巴拉德客戶（通常是汽車原始設備製造商）將巴拉德燃料電池發動機集成到他們的重型平台中, 車輛集成。

We're also using the BMS capabilities that fuel cell powertrain and integration experience to design, a fuel cell controller that will enable optimized hydrogen powertrain solutions with a battery fuel cell hybrid architecture for improved performance, considering safety, reliability, durability and we're also looking at improved fuel efficiency, helping overall customer TCO.

我們還利用燃料電池動力總成和集成經驗的 BMS 功能來設計燃料電池控制器，該控制器將通過電池燃料電池混合架構實現優化的氫動力總成解決方案，以提高性能，同時考慮到安全性、可靠性和耐用性，我們正在還著眼於提高燃油效率，幫助降低總體客戶 TCO。

Consistent with our announced guidance on costs for 2022, total operating expense was $146 million and total CapEx expense, $35 million. We are now updating our guidance for total operating expense and capital expenditures for 2023. We anticipate total operating expense to be between $135 million and $155 million and for capital expenditures between $40 million and $60 million. Given the macroeconomic outlook, and in the context of our 2023 annual operating plan, we continue to review our spend carefully to ensure we're appropriately investing in our growth strategy while maintaining a strong balance sheet.

與我們公佈的 2022 年成本指南一致，總運營費用為 1.46 億美元，總資本支出為 3500 萬美元。我們現在正在更新我們對 2023 年總運營費用和資本支出的指導。我們預計總運營費用將在 1.35 億美元至 1.55 億美元之間，資本支出將在 4000 萬至 6000 萬美元之間。鑑於宏觀經濟前景，並在我們 2023 年年度運營計劃的背景下，我們將繼續仔細審查我們的支出，以確保我們在保持強勁資產負債表的同時適當地投資於我們的增長戰略。

We ended 2022 with $914 million in cash and no debt. We're making strong progress against our product cost reduction targets, including our target to reduce our fuel cell stack costs by 70% by 2024. We're tracking well against this plan, despite inflationary pressures. We're also confident in our team's ability to achieve even further cost reductions over the coming few years.

到 2022 年底，我們擁有 9.14 億美元的現金且沒有債務。我們在降低產品成本目標方面取得了重大進展，包括到 2024 年將燃料電池堆成本降低 70% 的目標。儘管存在通貨膨脹壓力，我們仍能很好地實現這一計劃。我們也對我們團隊在未來幾年進一步降低成本的能力充滿信心。

Ballard is well positioned with a growing product order backlog, industry-leading fuel cell technology for our market applications, key partnerships and customers across our target markets, industry-leading deployment experience and a strong balance sheet. We're confident we can deliver long-term shareholder value while making a meaningful impact by providing zero-emission fuel cell power for a sustainable planet.

巴拉德憑藉不斷增長的產品訂單積壓、行業領先的市場應用燃料電池技術、目標市場的主要合作夥伴和客戶、行業領先的部署經驗以及強大的資產負債表，處於有利地位。我們相信，我們可以通過為可持續發展的地球提供零排放燃料電池電力來創造長期股東價值，同時產生有意義的影響。

With that, I'll turn the call back over to the operator for questions.

有了這個，我會把電話轉回接線員詢問問題。

(Operator Instructions) The first question comes from Aaron MacNeil with TD Cowen (sic) [Securities].

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Aaron MacNeil 和 TD Cowen（原文如此）[證券]。

Randy, for the backlog, I appreciate the split by Power Products and Technology Solutions. I know you're not going to provide any revenue guidance, but just given that the balance has moved significantly towards product sales, I think it would be helpful to give us all a refresher on what the typical time line is from order intake to revenue recognition. And on the Technology Solutions side, I was hoping you could give us a sense of how those revenues will trend over the next couple of quarters or years?

蘭迪，對於積壓，我感謝電源產品和技術解決方案的拆分。我知道您不會提供任何收入指導，但考慮到天平已顯著轉向產品銷售，我認為讓我們所有人回顧一下從訂單接收到收入的典型時間線會很有幫助認出。在技術解決方案方面，我希望您能告訴我們這些收入在未來幾個季度或幾年內的趨勢如何？

Yes. Thanks, Aaron. And certainly, the order intake and then the delivery time does vary by market segment. But overall, I would characterize it as between 3 months and 18 months. And then in terms of Technology Solutions, I think what we'll see this year is, again, a lower portion of revenue, percentage-wise in absolute dollar terms this year for our TS business and part of that, of course, is the Audi project substantially completed in 2022. And we're in the process really of really putting more of our resources into our product development activities as is reflected in our cost structure as well.

是的。謝謝，亞倫。當然，訂單量和交貨時間確實因細分市場而異。但總的來說，我會將其定性為 3 個月到 18 個月之間。然後就技術解決方案而言，我認為今年我們將再次看到我們的 TS 業務佔收入的百分比較低，按絕對美元計算，其中一部分當然是奧迪項目於 2022 年基本完成。我們正在真正將更多資源投入到我們的產品開發活動中，這也反映在我們的成本結構中。

Paul, of the $135 million to $155 million operating expense guidance you provided, how much is earmarked for R&D? And would you characterize it as elevated in the near term in sort of a final push towards your cost reduction initiatives? Or should we view that as more representative of a run rate on a longer-term go-forward basis?

保羅，在您提供的 1.35 億美元至 1.55 億美元的運營費用指導中，有多少專門用於研發？您是否會將其描述為在短期內有所提升，以最終推動您的成本削減計劃？還是我們應該將其視為更能代表長期前進基礎上的運行率？

Yes, Aaron. I'd say the -- what we've seen in terms of R&D and what we see across all of our OpEx going forward, broadly in line with what we've had in 2022. So looking to kind of capitalize on the investments that we've made and see most of our spending in sort of the -- in the production and in the technology investment. So investing in our products going forward. So broadly in line with what we've seen in 2022 across really all of our categories.

是的，亞倫。我想說的是——我們在研發方面所看到的以及我們在未來所有運營支出中所看到的，與我們在 2022 年所擁有的大致一致。因此，希望能夠利用投資我們已經做出並看到了我們的大部分支出 - 在生產和技術投資方面。所以投資我們的產品。與我們在 2022 年真正看到的所有類別的情況大體一致。

Yes, Aaron, maybe just to supplement, I wouldn't characterize this as a final push. What I would say is this is going to be a sustained investment for a period of time. Because not only are we improving performance and driving down costs, we're working on next-generation technology as well. One of the keys, of course, is that we're designing and developing stacks including the MEAs, and bipolar plates, and modules to be used across multiple verticals. So while it's a significant investment, there's a significant leverage that comes with the business model that we have.

是的，亞倫，也許只是為了補充，我不會將其描述為最後的推動。我要說的是，這將是一項持續一段時間的投資。因為我們不僅在提高性能和降低成本，而且還在研究下一代技術。當然，關鍵之一是我們正在設計和開發堆棧，包括 MEA、雙極板和模塊，以用於多個垂直領域。因此，儘管這是一項重大投資，但我們擁有的商業模式會帶來巨大的影響力。

The next question comes from Michael Glen with Raymond James.

下一個問題來自 Michael Glen 和 Raymond James。

Randy, maybe just to start, when we're thinking about the investment that you're going to be making in China, the $130 million MEA facility, when you're thinking about allocating that capital, given what's happening in Europe, given how your sales has shifted so much, like if you're not going to be putting the money in Europe, is there a risk that you're going to potentially miss some revenue opportunity that's coming in that market?

蘭迪，也許只是開始，當我們考慮你將在中國進行的投資時，即 1.3 億美元的 MEA 設施，當你考慮分配資金時，考慮到歐洲正在發生的事情，考慮到如何您的銷售變化如此之大，就像如果您不打算將資金投入歐洲，是否存在您可能會錯過該市場即將到來的一些收入機會的風險？

Yes. So just to clarify -- sorry, maybe you can go mute Michael while we respond. Just to clarify one thing is that while we have MEA production planned for -- in China, it's not specific to the China market. We have the ability, of course, to use that volume globally. And certainly, that's part of our strategy. I think the real question is, given geopolitics, we do have a local-for-local strategy where we will have increased production capabilities in not just China but in Europe, as well as the U.S. marketplace and the increasing support as we saw yesterday in Europe. And we saw recently in the U.S. to support companies who are looking at localizing hydrogen and fuel cell related production activities in these markets.

是的。澄清一下——抱歉，也許你可以在我們回复時讓 Michael 靜音。只是要澄清一件事，雖然我們計劃在中國生產 MEA，但它並不特定於中國市場。當然，我們有能力在全球範圍內使用該卷。當然，這是我們戰略的一部分。我認為真正的問題是，鑑於地緣政治，我們確實有一個本地對本地的戰略，我們將不僅在中國，而且在歐洲，以及美國市場和我們昨天看到的越來越多的支持中提高生產能力歐洲。我們最近在美國看到支持那些正在考慮在這些市場中本地化氫和燃料電池相關生產活動的公司。

So I think the question is will we see some restrictions in those markets that require in-country domestic production. And if I just take, for example, the announcement in the EU yesterday where they announced 8 strategic net zero technologies, and part of their policy was to look at manufacturing capacity to cover over 40% of their annual deployment needs for hydrogen fuel cells. So there's an indicator of the potential need for production capacity in the European market as well.

所以我認為問題是我們是否會在那些需要國內生產的市場上看到一些限制。舉個例子，歐盟昨天宣布了 8 項戰略淨零排放技術，他們的部分政策是研究製造能力，以覆蓋其氫燃料電池年度部署需求的 40% 以上。因此，也有一個指標表明歐洲市場對產能的潛在需求。

So we did scale the MEA production facility Phase 1 there designed for the China market. We have the ability to use that capacity for global markets. But if we see a need and market demand that justifies investment in other markets, we'll certainly be looking at that very carefully in 2023.

因此，我們確實擴大了那裡專為中國市場設計的 MEA 生產設施一期。我們有能力將這種能力用於全球市場。但是，如果我們看到需要和市場需求證明對其他市場的投資是合理的，我們肯定會在 2023 年非常仔細地研究它。

Okay. And then just on the addition, I believe you said it was in China this year, there was 5,000 new fuel cell vehicles put on the road. Are you able to indicate like what's your -- what your market share is with those additions? Or I mean where are those -- who's supplying fuel cells into that market?

好的。然後再加上，我相信你說過今年在中國，有 5000 輛新的燃料電池汽車上路了。你能說出你的——你的市場份額是多少嗎？或者我的意思是那些在哪裡——誰在向那個市場供應燃料電池？

Yes. So you may recall there were 2 different tranches of cluster regions announced and the first tranche included Beijing and Shanghai and Guangdong province. So mostly adoption in 2022 happened in those initial clusters, specifically in Beijing and Shanghai, and a big catalyst for that was the Beijing Olympics. So we are not situated in Beijing and Guangdong province in any material way at this time. So it's not unsurprising that we don't have high volume of market share in those markets.

是的。所以你可能還記得宣布了兩個不同的集群區域部分，第一部分包括北京、上海和廣東省。因此，2022 年的大部分採用發生在那些最初的集群中，特別是在北京和上海，北京奧運會是一個重要的催化劑。因此，我們此時不以任何物質方式位於北京和廣東省。因此，我們在這些市場中沒有很高的市場份額也就不足為奇了。

But of course, there were -- the second tranche announcement in terms of additional clusters and then, of course, localizing in Shanghai, specifically in Jiading which has exposure just for that district for 2 of the 5 cluster regions now. And then, of course, Weifang, where Weichai is located and our Weichai-Ballard JV is also included in the cluster region now as well. So I would say it was more a pacing of the initial cluster regions, and I think the Beijing Olympics was a strong catalyst. But to be clear, we had very modest market share in 2022.

但是，當然，有 - 關於額外集群的第二批公告，然後當然是在上海進行本地化，特別是在嘉定，現在 5 個集群區域中的 2 個僅針對該地區進行了曝光。當然還有濰柴所在的濰坊，我們的濰柴-巴拉德合資企業現在也包括在集群區域中。所以我想說這更像是最初集群區域的步伐，我認為北京奧運會是一個強大的催化劑。但需要明確的是，我們在 2022 年的市場份額非常小。

The next question comes from Mac Whale with Cormark Securities.

下一個問題來自 Cormark Securities 的 Mac Whale。

When you look at the outlook for increasing year-over-year sales given the higher backlog, is the gross margin sort of hit a low point at this point? Like is there a contribution margin that we should expect from higher revenue? Or should your, sort of, investment in bigger headcount and production capacity sort of outweigh that?

鑑於積壓量增加，當您查看銷售額同比增長的前景時，此時毛利率是否觸及低點？比如我們應該從更高的收入中獲得邊際收益嗎？還是您對更多員工和生產能力的投資應該超過它？

Yes. I think for 2022, we saw clearly signs of that with some of the investments we've made in production capacity where the volume hasn't caught up with that investment yet. We're going to see that through 2023 as well and into 2024. But I do think when we look at the order backlog activity and the sales pipeline, which is really swelling with a lot of great opportunities and some scale in some of these opportunities. We do see the opportunity to move from contribution margin to gross margin where that fixed overhead cost structure gets absorbed over a larger book of business.

是的。我認為到 2022 年，我們已經清楚地看到了一些跡象，我們在產能方面進行的一些投資還沒有趕上投資。我們也將在 2023 年和 2024 年看到這一點。但我確實認為，當我們查看訂單積壓活動和銷售渠道時，它確實在膨脹，有很多很好的機會，其中一些機會具有一定的規模.我們確實看到了從貢獻利潤率轉向毛利率的機會，在這種情況下，固定間接費用結構被更大的業務吸收。

It's going to take some time to move through that. I do think your characterization of gross margins kind of hitting a trough or a low point here is probably directionally accurate. So I do think we're going to see expansion as we move forward. But I would look for the big leg up in gross margins, particularly as we look at '24 with some of that backlog translating to orders and some of our cost reduction initiatives translating to production.

這需要一些時間來完成。我確實認為你對毛利率的描述在這裡觸及低谷或低點可能在方向上是準確的。所以我確實認為我們會在前進的過程中看到擴張。但我會尋找毛利率的大幅上漲，特別是當我們看到 24 年時，一些積壓訂單轉化為訂單，我們的一些成本削減舉措轉化為生產。

Okay. Got it. that makes sense because we see the difference in the 12-month order book in the backlog, there's a difference in the year-over-year. So obviously, there's a lot of back-end waiting here. Is that the way to read that? And I'm wondering, should we be just waiting like -- should we be expecting higher individual order sizes or more frequent because we haven't really seen like a big 50 or 100 units sort of order or consistency in those? Like what are your thoughts on order size?

好的。知道了。這是有道理的，因為我們看到積壓訂單中 12 個月的訂單有所不同，同比有所不同。很明顯，這裡有很多後端等待。那是閱讀的方式嗎？我想知道，我們是否應該等待——我們是否應該期待更高的單個訂單大小或更頻繁，因為我們還沒有真正看到像 50 或 100 單位的大訂單或這些訂單的一致性？比如你對訂單大小有什麼看法？

Yes. I do think, as we know, the bus market is the most mature of the markets that we're looking at. And now we're seeing, as I mentioned earlier, we've seen 3 different cities in Europe and now the first in the U.S. planning to deploy 100 fuel cell buses. Those aren't in our order backlog. They're certainly in our sales pipeline. So that will -- as we kind of look for 2024 to start seeing some of that translate to order book and starting looking at that translating to revenue as well. I do think we are looking at more chunky orders going forward, but also a lot more small orders from a number of different customers across the different verticals.

是的。我確實認為，正如我們所知，巴士市場是我們所關注的市場中最成熟的。正如我之前提到的，現在我們看到歐洲有 3 個不同的城市，現在美國第一個城市計劃部署 100 輛燃料電池公交車。這些不在我們的訂單積壓中。他們肯定在我們的銷售渠道中。所以這將 - 因為我們有點期待 2024 年開始看到其中的一些轉化為訂單，並開始著眼於轉化為收入。我確實認為我們正在尋找更多的大訂單，但也有來自不同垂直領域的許多不同客戶的更多小訂單。

But certainly, as we go from early demonstration programs to larger deployments, the scale is going to be driven. I'd also highlight a number of the verticals that we're focused on, like rail, like marine, like stationary, do have higher power output requirements. You can also look at the off-road market for the hauling trucks is another example. In some of these cases, like freight locomotives, you're looking at 1.2 megawatts of power. You need effectively kind of 12, 15 buses to satisfy that type of power requirements. So as we get some of the larger orders in marine and stationary and off-road, I think this is really going to see some lumpy orders as well.

但可以肯定的是，隨著我們從早期的示範項目走向更大規模的部署，規模將得到推動。我還要強調我們關注的一些垂直領域，如鐵路、海洋、固定式，確實有更高的功率輸出要求。您還可以看看牽引卡車的越野市場是另一個例子。在其中一些情況下，例如貨運機車，您會看到 1.2 兆瓦的功率。您實際上需要 12、15 條總線來滿足這種類型的電源要求。因此，當我們在海洋、固定式和越野方面獲得一些較大的訂單時，我認為這也確實會看到一些塊狀訂單。

Thanks Randy, I'll jump back in the queue.

謝謝蘭迪，我會跳回到隊列中。

Yes. And Mac, on just supplement you add, you also highlighted a little bit of the waiting of revenue when revenue occurs. I would highlight, we're in this cycle, continue to be in the cycle where traditionally, we have a heavier waiting of revenue in the back half of the year. And I would kind of think about something like a 70% split in the back half of the year this year compared to the first half.

是的。而 Mac，在你添加的補充內容中，你還強調了一些收入發生時的收入等待。我要強調的是，我們正處於這個週期，繼續處於傳統的周期中，我們在下半年有更多的收入等待。我會考慮今年下半年與上半年相比 70% 的拆分。

The next question comes from Rob Brown with Lake Street Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自湖街資本市場的 Rob Brown。

On the kind of the drivers for the bus market momentum, is it really that market maturing? Or are there other sort of drivers causing the order growth?

關於公交市場動力的驅動因素，市場真的成熟了嗎？或者是否有其他類型的驅動因素導致訂單增長？

I think it's a couple of things, Rob. One is, obviously, we have demonstration programs that have been underway for a number of years in some cases and those customers have now seen the technology firsthand. They have confidently uptime and availability and reliability. So that's translating to confidence to move forward from, say, 5 -- 3, 5, 10 buses to deployments of a much larger portion of their fleet. So that's a very encouraging sign.

我認為這是兩件事，羅伯。一個是，顯然，在某些情況下，我們已經進行了多年的示範項目，這些客戶現在已經親眼目睹了這項技術。他們自信地擁有正常運行時間、可用性和可靠性。因此，這轉化為信心，可以從 5 - 3、5、10 輛公共汽車轉向部署更大比例的車隊。所以這是一個非常令人鼓舞的跡象。

And in many cases, those transit operators have been very loud proponents in the industry talking to other transit operators who are frankly struggling with their zero-emission strategies. And of course, as we know, I'll use the U.S. as an example, where you've got a requirement of 50% of all new transit buses required to be zero emission, not low emission, but zero emission starting in 2025 and 100% in 2029. And so they have to have plans. They've been looking at different technologies.

在許多情況下，這些公交運營商一直是業內非常大聲的支持者，他們與坦率地為零排放戰略苦苦掙扎的其他公交運營商交談。當然，正如我們所知，我將以美國為例，那裡要求所有新公交車中的 50% 必須是零排放，不是低排放，而是從 2025 年開始的零排放，並且2029 年 100%。所以他們必須有計劃。他們一直在研究不同的技術。

I think some of the transit operators have trialed battery electric buses as well and have found, in some cases, that, that technology has struggled to achieve the range and the performance they're looking for depending on the duty cycle and climatic conditions of those transit operator experiences.

我認為一些公交運營商也已經試用了電池電動公交車，並且發現在某些情況下，該技術難以達到他們正在尋找的範圍和性能，具體取決於這些公交車的工作週期和氣候條件公交運營商的經驗。

So I think there's a variety of factors that are leading to this, but it's very clear. It's frankly, taking a little slower than we would like, but it's very clear to us that the scaling is occurring. And I layer on top of this, as you think about the progress that's going on the policy side for green hydrogen production. So the availability of low carbon, low-cost hydrogen in the U.S. and in the European markets, as you look out 2, 3, 4, 5 years from now, this really game changes the opportunity for the deployment of fuel cell vehicles because many of these applications fuel is a very significant part of the overall total cost of ownership, in some cases, between 30% and 60%.

所以我認為有多種因素導致了這一點，但很明顯。坦率地說，比我們想要的要慢一點，但我們很清楚縮放正在發生。當您考慮綠色制氫政策方面的進展時，我在此之上。因此，從現在起展望 2、3、4、5 年後，低碳、低成本氫在美國和歐洲市場的可用性，這確實改變了燃料電池汽車部署的機會，因為許多在這些應用中，燃料是總擁有成本的一個非常重要的部分，在某些情況下，在 30% 到 60% 之間。

And so as that fuel becomes available, and is decarbonized and as low cost, we think this fuel cell opportunity, not just for buses, but for all of these mobile applications are really going to see significant growth.

因此，隨著這種燃料變得可用、脫碳和低成本，我們認為這種燃料電池的機會，不僅適用於公共汽車，而且適用於所有這些移動應用，真的會看到顯著的增長。

Okay. And then on kind of gross margin and I guess, pricing, you talked about some strategic pricing activity. How does that work? Is that time based over time prices come down? Or do customers have to buy certain volume levels?

好的。然後關於毛利率，我想，定價，你談到了一些戰略定價活動。這是如何運作的？那是基於時間的價格隨著時間的推移而下降嗎？還是客戶必須購買一定數量的產品？

Yes. It's a good question, Rob. There's a couple of elements here. One is that I think we need to understand that the early adopters don't have an economic value proposition that's really strong today. They're adopting in low volumes and demonstration projects where the economics are challenged, and where we're in low volume and not offer -- not able to really support the type of economics that drives the higher adoption. And so these customers are taking on risk. They're taking on as early adopters, making investments in this technology. And so we're effectively -- and other partners in the value chain ecosystem are also doing this, taking on some of the investment and sharing some of the risk as well.

是的。這是個好問題，羅伯。這裡有幾個元素。一是我認為我們需要了解早期採用者並沒有今天真正強大的經濟價值主張。他們正在採用小批量和示範項目，在這些項目中，經濟受到挑戰，而我們的小批量且不提供——無法真正支持推動更高采用率的經濟類型。因此，這些客戶正在承擔風險。他們正在成為早期採用者，對這項技術進行投資。因此，我們有效地 - 價值鏈生態系統中的其他合作夥伴也在這樣做，承擔了一些投資並分擔了一些風險。

And so what we've done is be very selective on which partners we see large volume in the future with, and how can we support the success of these early deployments to validate the technology for them for that application and to validate the longer-term TCO, including based on the hydrogen fuel assumptions.

因此，我們所做的是非常有選擇性地選擇我們在未來看到大量合作的合作夥伴，以及我們如何支持這些早期部署的成功，以驗證該應用程序的技術並驗證長期TCO，包括基於氫燃料的假設。

So we've been making those strategic decisions. It's translating to relationships that we think have a lot of stickiness going forward, but it is also reflected in the financial results, including the strained gross margin. So I think in terms of how they're structured, the way I would characterize them, not so much time-based but more volume-based. So specific projects and programs and in also cases we have tiered structures where customers purchase x number of units, they get a certain price. And if they want to be more aggressive in their early adoption, we're there to help them, and we can give them a more attractive price. And so we do see tiered pricing as well based on volume.

所以我們一直在做出這些戰略決策。它轉化為我們認為未來會有很多粘性的關係，但它也反映在財務結果中，包括緊張的毛利率。所以我認為它們的結構方式，我描述它們的方式，與其說是基於時間，不如說是基於數量。因此，特定的項目和計劃，在某些情況下，我們有分層結構，客戶購買 x 數量的單位，他們會得到一定的價格。如果他們想在早期採用時更加積極，我們會幫助他們，我們可以給他們一個更有吸引力的價格。因此，我們確實看到了基於數量的分層定價。

The next question comes from Justin Strong with Scotiabank.

下一個問題來自加拿大豐業銀行的 Justin Strong。

Just a quick question here. So, Is your CapEx profile and time line for the upcoming Shanghai investment changed at all recently? And if not, what do you see is the biggest risk to these plans?

這裡只是一個簡單的問題。那麼，您即將進行的上海投資的資本支出概況和時間表最近是否發生了變化？如果不是，您認為這些計劃面臨的最大風險是什麼？

Yes, Justin, first of all, welcome, and thanks for the question. Yes. So from a geopolitical perspective and also wanting to see more progress in the China market, we're really pacing our investment in that market to defer spend in the China market as long as possible. So we have pushed back some of the spending. So some of the spending that we would have originally expected to materialize in 2023, we pushed into 2024 to be prudent.

是的，賈斯汀，首先，歡迎並感謝你提出這個問題。是的。因此，從地緣政治的角度來看，也希望看到中國市場取得更多進展，我們確實在調整對該市場的投資，以盡可能推遲在中國市場的支出。所以我們推遲了一些支出。因此，我們原本預計在 2023 年實現的一些支出，為了謹慎起見，我們推遲到了 2024 年。

And that's something that we're tracking literally every quarter on whether or not we cut checks and if so, for what purpose, whether it's the order of equipment or land acquisition costs and permitting. So we are pacing our investments to get as much information as possible before additional spend occurs.

這就是我們每個季度都在跟踪的事情，關於我們是否削減支票，如果是，為了什麼目的，無論是設備訂單還是土地徵用成本和許可。因此，我們正在調整投資節奏，以便在發生額外支出之前獲得盡可能多的信息。

Great. And then maybe just, I guess, you mentioned geopolitical risk. Do you think that would be the result of, I guess, trade or tariff changes? Or what do you think drives that?

偉大的。然後，我猜你可能只是提到了地緣政治風險。你認為這是貿易或關稅變化的結果嗎？或者你認為是什麼驅動了它？

Yes. What I've learned is that it's very difficult to guess or speculate on these type of things. There's a lot of variables, and we've seen that in 2022 with the Putin's invasion of Ukraine as an illustrative example. So we have a number of variables that we have in our risk register that we track. What I would say is that right now, what I've seen over the last number of months is that geopolitical tensions continue to be strained and are trending in our opinion, in the wrong direction.

是的。我學到的是，很難猜測或推測這類事情。有很多變數，我們已經看到 2022 年普京入侵烏克蘭就是一個說明性的例子。因此，我們在跟踪的風險登記冊中有許多變量。我要說的是，現在，我在過去幾個月裡看到的是，地緣政治緊張局勢繼續緊張，並且在我們看來正朝著錯誤的方向發展。

I think what's important is to understand is the China market is a large market. So largest market for buses, largest market for trucks, largest market for trains, largest market for marine vessels. It is today the largest user of hydrogen, and their policies are effectively designed to promote companies -- in our multinational companies to locate parts of the fuel cell value chain into the China market.

我認為重要的是要了解中國市場是一個大市場。因此，最大的公共汽車市場、最大的卡車市場、最大的火車市場、最大的船舶市場。它是當今最大的氫用戶，他們的政策旨在有效地促進公司——在我們的跨國公司中，將燃料電池價值鏈的一部分定位到中國市場。

And so we've seen -- I'll just highlight a number of others. We've seen Cummins, as an example, we've seen Umicore, we've seen Johnson Matthey and recently Plastic Omnium all announcing their investments in China and in some cases, including in the same Jiading District as we're localizing in a hydrogen fuel cell cluster, the investments they're making in their parts of the value chain in China.

所以我們已經看到 - 我只會強調其他一些。例如，我們看到康明斯，我們看到優美科，我們看到莊信万豐和最近的全耐塑料都宣布了他們在中國的投資，在某些情況下，包括在我們正在本地化的同一個嘉定區氫燃料電池集群，他們在中國價值鏈的各個部分進行的投資。

So there are a number of companies that are tracking to the same path that we're on to localize the value chain in China to make sure you have access to that large market, not just for the China market, but of course, the ability to use that material globally.

因此，有許多公司正在走與我們相同的道路，將價值鏈在中國本地化，以確保您能夠進入這個巨大的市場，不僅僅是為了中國市場，當然還有能力在全球範圍內使用該材料。

The next question comes from Manav Gupta with UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Manav Gupta。

My first question is we have had IRA passed last year. And again, treasury department is working through the kings and -- but (inaudible) administration is spending a lot of money or giving out a lot of money for the development of hydrogen in U.S. I'm just trying to understand from your perspective, have you started seeing a change happen as it relates to building the necessary infrastructure, so hydrogen can penetrate the mobility market on a go-forward basis?

我的第一個問題是我們去年通過了 IRA。再一次，財政部正在通過國王工作 - 但（聽不清）政府正在花費大量資金或提供大量資金用於美國的氫氣開發。我只是想從你的角度理解，有您開始看到與建設必要的基礎設施有關的變化發生，因此氫可以在前進的基礎上滲透到移動市場？

Yes, Manav, great question. And so last week, I was in Houston attending the CERAWeek conference, and you could feel at that conference, which I think is the largest energy conference in the world, the primacy of the discussions at the conference on hydrogen. And specifically, the opportunity set that's presented with a very compelling $3 PTC, production tax credit for green hydrogen. And so what I would say is that infrastructure, this policy, these levers haven't translated to a build-out of infrastructure yet.

是的，馬納夫，好問題。所以上週，我在休斯敦參加了 CERAWeek 會議，你可以在我認為是世界上最大的能源會議的那次會議上感受到氫氣會議討論的首要地位。具體來說，機會集提供了非常引人注目的 3 美元 PTC，即綠色氫的生產稅收抵免。所以我要說的是，基礎設施、這項政策、這些槓桿還沒有轉化為基礎設施的建設。

What we are seeing is a swelling pipeline of projects that are now bidding that are -- have been submitted for hydrogen hubs. And I think it's been publicly announced by the U.S. DOE that originally they thought there'd be maybe 4, 5 hydrogen hub sites, maybe 6. That number now is expected to be possibly 7 or 8 hydrogen hubs in the U.S. And we're seeing a lot of activity by major energy players, by industrial gas companies, by renewable energy companies as they all look to participate in what should be a very attractive market in the U.S.

我們所看到的是，正在投標的項目數量不斷增加——已經提交給氫樞紐。而且我認為美國能源部已經公開宣布，最初他們認為可能有 4、5 個氫中心站點，可能有 6 個。現在預計這個數字可能是美國的 7 或 8 個氫中心。我們是看到主要能源公司、工業氣體公司、可再生能源公司的大量活動，因為他們都希望參與美國應該是一個非常有吸引力的市場

So I think this is game changing, the IRA, and it will lead to, again, low-cost, low-carbon hydrogen available for a number of decarbonization applications, including industry, energy and mobility. So we do think that the mobility infrastructure likely will lag a little bit compared to decarbonizing industry applications. But we're seeing a lot of discussion about how to build out hubs that can support mobility applications as well as corridor refueling opportunities in the U.S. So I think this is something that's going to take some time and off to roll out but it is, in my opinion, a matter of time only.

因此，我認為 IRA 正在改變遊戲規則，它將再次導致低成本、低碳氫可用於許多脫碳應用，包括工業、能源和交通。因此，我們確實認為，與脫碳行業應用相比，移動基礎設施可能會落後一點。但是我們看到很多關於如何在美國建立可以支持移動應用程序以及走廊加油機會的樞紐的討論所以我認為這需要一些時間才能推出，但它是，在我看來，只是時間問題。

Perfect. My very quick follow-up here is it looked like there were some onetime items because your gross margin came in lower than expectations. Your gross margin is generally better than that. So help us understand those few line items so we can be sure that the gross margin is not what we saw in the fourth quarter.

完美的。我在這裡非常快速的跟進是看起來有一些一次性項目，因為你的毛利率低於預期。你的毛利率通常比那更好。因此，幫助我們了解這幾個項目，這樣我們就可以確定毛利率不是我們在第四季度看到的。

Sure, Manav, it's Paul here. So there's a number of factors going in, some of which we've already talked about affecting the gross margin, including the pricing strategy, which lowered the contribution margin for the Power Products by about 7 points and then in our Technology Solutions business with the wind down of the Audi contract, a little less activity with the joint venture technology, that lowered our margins and some new customers coming on, again, with the pricing strategy at lower margins or lower price for TS type business.

好的，馬納夫，我是保羅。所以有很多因素在起作用，其中一些我們已經討論過影響毛利率，包括定價策略，它將電源產品的貢獻率降低了大約 7 個百分點，然後在我們的技術解決方案業務中奧迪合同的結束，合資技術活動的減少，降低了我們的利潤率和一些新客戶，再次採用較低利潤率或 TS 類型業務的較低價格的定價策略。

And then some of the onetimes that you mentioned include some inventory write-offs source of obsolete equipment for discontinued products. And then we also booked an onerous contract provision. So having some customers with increasing orders, repeat orders tipping into lower tiers and causing those contracts at the moment to be owners. And so under accounting rules, you have to book the provision. on that. And that was about, in total, about 8 points of the difference. And then finally, as we talked about earlier, with the lower amount of revenue, not absorbing all of our net fixed overheads, so the manufacturing overhead, and that was about 7 points of that.

然後，您提到的一些一次性產品包括停產產品的過時設備的一些庫存註銷來源。然後我們還預訂了一項繁重的合同條款。因此，有些客戶的訂單不斷增加，重複的訂單轉移到較低的層級，導致這些合同現在成為所有者。因此，根據會計規則，您必須記賬準備金。在那上面。總共大約有 8 個百分點的差異。最後，正如我們之前談到的那樣，由於收入較低，沒有吸收我們所有的淨固定間接費用，所以製造費用大約是其中的 7 個百分點。

The next question comes from Greg Wasikowski with Webber Research.

下一個問題來自 Webber Research 的 Greg Wasikowski。

First one, just thinking about the next 12 months here, what are the primary objectives for Ballard? And obviously, it's a pretty tough question because everything is so important, obviously. But between sales, margins backlog, China, policy, et cetera, you name it. If we jump ahead 1 year from now and look back, Randy, what would be your #1 milestone that you'd like to see achieve?

第一個，想想接下來的 12 個月，巴拉德的主要目標是什麼？顯然，這是一個非常棘手的問題，因為顯然一切都非常重要。但在銷售、利潤積壓、中國、政策等方面，應有盡有。蘭迪，如果我們在 1 年後回顧過去，您希望看到實現的第一個里程碑是什麼？

Yes. We say internally, Greg, very often the top 3 deliverables this year are order book, order book and order book. So that gives you an indication of where the focus is. What I would say is that I would expect at the end of 2023. It would be very similar to the progress we made in 2022 in some ways, customer platform wins, repeat business, getting to larger orders and that backlog growing so that we have better visibility, not just for one quarter out or even the next 4 quarters but for subsequent years as well. So that to us is very important, is getting those customers through longer-term relationships where we're embedded and sticky with those customers.

是的。我們在內部說，Greg，今年前 3 名可交付成果通常是訂單簿、訂單簿和訂單簿。這樣你就可以知道焦點在哪裡。我想說的是，我預計會在 2023 年底實現。這在某些方面與我們在 2022 年取得的進展非常相似，贏得客戶平台、重複業務、獲得更大的訂單以及積壓訂單的增加，因此我們有更好的可見性，不僅是一個季度甚至接下來的 4 個季度，而且是隨後的幾年。所以這對我們來說非常重要，通過我們嵌入並粘附在這些客戶中的長期關係來吸引這些客戶。

And then the second thing that's really important is cost reduction. And we have a significant organizational investment that goes on, not only to improve product performance, but really driving down MEA plate, stack module cost reduction. And this is a critical thing because we need to, in the future, be able to ensure we're offering that value proposition for customers to unlock the scaling effect but also to make sure that we have gross margins that enable a sustainable business. So we think the gross margin line in your income statement is critically important. It's something we're focused on for the long term. And so those would be the 2 highlights. I would say, order book and cost reduction.

然後，真正重要的第二件事是降低成本。我們正在進行一項重大的組織投資，不僅是為了提高產品性能，而且真正推動了 MEA 板、堆疊模塊成本的降低。這是一件至關重要的事情，因為我們需要在未來能夠確保我們為客戶提供價值主張，以釋放規模效應，同時確保我們擁有能夠實現可持續業務的毛利率。所以我們認為您損益表中的毛利率線至關重要。這是我們長期關注的事情。因此，這將是兩個亮點。我會說，訂單簿和成本降低。

Got it. Okay. Cool. And then for a follow-up, just on EV charging, can you talk a little bit more about that opportunity for hydrogen and fuel cells within that segment? And geographically, where are you seeing the initial demand now? And where do you expect to see a pickup in demand for that application in next year or a couple of years?

知道了。好的。涼爽的。然後是關於電動汽車充電的後續行動，你能多談談該細分市場中氫和燃料電池的機會嗎？在地理上，您現在在哪裡看到最初的需求？您預計明年或幾年內該應用程序的需求會在哪些方面出現回升？

Yes, great question. So what I would say is that as EV infrastructure or EV adoption goes from, let's call it, less than 1% in some markets to 5% and 10% and much higher in markets. You really start to see the strain on grid infrastructure and recharging capabilities. And so we do see this opportunity initially in the U.S., but this is not a phenomenon that's unique to the U.S. There will be great infrastructure challenges in the U.S. and in the European theater. So we expect to see lots of opportunity for these applications going forward.

是的，很好的問題。所以我要說的是，隨著電動汽車基礎設施或電動汽車的採用率從某些市場的不到 1% 上升到 5% 和 10%，在市場上更高。你真的開始看到電網基礎設施和充電能力的壓力。因此，我們確實首先在美國看到了這個機會，但這並不是美國獨有的現象。美國和歐洲戰區將面臨巨大的基礎設施挑戰。因此，我們希望在未來看到這些應用程序的大量機會。

The next question comes from Kashy Harrison with Piper Sandler.

下一個問題來自 Kashy Harrison 和 Piper Sandler。

So the first one for me, just a quick clarification. On the heavy-duty Chinese revenues in Q4, was the softness there mainly associated with COVID? Or was that due to nuances surrounding the initial clusters being in Beijing? Or was it driven by some other factor?

所以第一個對我來說，只是一個快速的澄清。關於第四季度的重型中國收入，那裡的疲軟主要與 COVID 有關嗎？還是因為最初集群位於北京的細微差別？或者它是由其他一些因素驅動的？

Yes. So I wouldn't just characterize it as softness in Q4, candidly, I would say it was softness in 2022. And it was a variety of factors. Certainly, COVID had pretty significant impact, including in key markets in the first half of the year in 2022, for sure. And we didn't really see an unlocking in China until late 2022. And of course, travel resumed in early 2023.

是的。所以我不會僅僅將其描述為第四季度的疲軟，坦率地說，我會說這是 2022 年的疲軟。這是多種因素造成的。當然，COVID 肯定會產生相當大的影響，包括在 2022 年上半年對主要市場的影響。直到 2022 年底，我們才真正看到中國的解鎖。當然，旅行在 2023 年初恢復了。

But I think more fundamentally, it's the complexity of how the policies in China have been adopted, and how the application processes work and the points -- point scheme with the 7 parts of the hydrogen fuel cell value chain. It's a very complex policy scheme that many organizations are struggling to understand and importantly, for capital to have certainty that if they invest in a scale deployment, that the subsidies that are available are actually paid out.

但我認為更根本的是，中國的政策是如何被採納的，應用程序是如何運作的，以及氫燃料電池價值鏈 7 個部分的積分計劃的複雜性。這是一個非常複雜的政策方案，許多組織都在努力理解，重要的是，資本可以確定，如果他們投資於大規模部署，可用的補貼實際上會得到支付。

So to me, that's the bigger challenge is that the policies need continued clarity. Not people are commenting on this, but I'm going to make a bold prediction here. I do think there'll be more policy clarity in 2023, in part in response to what I view as a really emerging competitive dynamic between the U.S., Europe and China, on providing fuel cell hydrogen fuel cell policies to support the adoption of hydrogen, but also from an economic development perspective. So I think we're going to see continued progress on the policy front on all 3 of these markets that will translate to future value for Ballard shareholders.

所以對我來說，更大的挑戰是政策需要持續清晰。沒有人對此發表評論，但我將在這裡做出一個大膽的預測。我確實認為 2023 年政策會更加明確，部分是為了回應我認為美國、歐洲和中國之間真正新興的競爭動態，提供燃料電池氫燃料電池政策以支持氫的採用，還要從經濟發展的角度來看。因此，我認為我們將看到所有這三個市場在政策方面的持續進展，這將轉化為巴拉德股東的未來價值。

And just for my follow-up question, can you either remind us or perhaps provide a framework to help us understand the revenue potential of the business once that MEA facility in China is operating at your targeted utilization? And then maybe part and parcel with that, what level of utilization do you think is necessary to get to positive gross margins?

對於我的後續問題，您能否提醒我們或者提供一個框架來幫助我們了解一旦中國的 MEA 設施以您的目標利用率運營後該業務的收入潛力？然後也許是其中的一部分，您認為達到正毛利率需要什麼樣的利用率？

Yes. Excellent question. So I think it's important to understand, what we're looking at is really the ability to manufacture MEAs in that facility that supports effectively 20,000 fuel cell engines. And so the way I think about the levers there is obviously the revenue on MEAs selling that to the Weichai-Ballard JV, and also the ability for us to use those MEAs globally for a variety of applications.

是的。很好的問題。所以我認為重要的是要了解，我們正在研究的是在該設施中製造 MEA 的能力，該設施可有效支持 20,000 個燃料電池發動機。因此，我對槓桿的思考方式顯然是將 MEA 出售給濰柴-巴拉德合資企業的收入，以及我們在全球範圍內將這些 MEA 用於各種應用的能力。

But then the next leg of that is for the JV using those domestically produced low-cost, high-performing MEAs for the sale of modules into that market. So I see a leveraging effect that occurs by having this MEA production facility there.

但下一步是合資企業使用那些國內生產的低成本、高性能的多邊環境協定來向該市場銷售模塊。所以我看到了通過在那裡擁有這個 MEA 生產設施而產生的槓桿效應。

In terms of MEAs, we typically see -- when we sell MEAs as a stand-alone material, very high gross margin on those sales. So the kind of utilization rate for that facility, I don't have the exact number, but I think even at 50% utilization rate there, we would see a very successful economic return.

就 MEA 而言，我們通常會看到——當我們將 MEA 作為獨立材料銷售時，這些銷售的毛利率非常高。所以那個設施的利用率，我沒有確切的數字，但我認為即使那裡的利用率達到 50%，我們也會看到非常成功的經濟回報。

The next question comes from Craig Shere with Tuohy Brothers.

下一個問題來自 Tuohy Brothers 的 Craig Shere。

With the Audi roll off, can you opine on prospects for quarterly cadence of Technology Solutions revenues in '23 and prospectively into 2024. And there's a lot of discussion about potential growth in the order book this year and how that could be, say, anywhere from 3 to 18 months between book-to-bill. But is it fair to say that the bus fuel cell orders can be on the quicker end of that, say, 3 to 6 months?

隨著奧迪的下線，您能否對 23 年和 2024 年技術解決方案收入的季度節奏前景發表看法。關於今年訂單的潛在增長以及它如何可能在任何地方都有很多討論從預訂到出貨之間的時間為 3 到 18 個月。但可以說公交車燃料電池訂單可以更快結束，比如 3 到 6 個月？

Yes. So Craig, taking the last question first, so first of all, what we've learned about the bus market is it's very unpredictable when the transit operators will actually deploy their vehicles. And therefore, the ordering timing to the bus operator can vary. And even when they do get the order, sometimes there's delays in hydrogen refueling infrastructure. So I think relative to the segments, the bus one, when we have the order in hand, you can see realization in the 3- to 6-month time frame. That's very reasonable.

是的。所以克雷格，首先回答最後一個問題，首先，我們從公交市場了解到，公交運營商何時實際部署他們的車輛是非常不可預測的。因此，巴士運營商的訂購時間可能會有所不同。即使他們確實收到訂單，有時加氫基礎設施也會出現延誤。所以我認為相對於細分市場，公交車，當我們拿到訂單時，您可以在 3 到 6 個月的時間範圍內看到實現。這是非常有道理的。

But sometimes that can take longer. I just want to flag that. And then some of these other markets, particularly when you're talking about larger applications, 1 megawatt-type systems typically take longer for -- not just for production, but for those customers to be ready for either the vehicle or site infrastructure requirements. So that point.

但有時這可能需要更長的時間。我只想指出這一點。然後是其他一些市場，特別是當你談論更大的應用程序時，1 兆瓦型系統通常需要更長的時間——不僅是為了生產，而且是為了那些客戶準備好滿足車輛或現場基礎設施的要求。所以那一點。

And on the TS front, we don't provide kind of a quarterly cadence. You can kind of think about it being relatively flat quarter-to-quarter for 2023 with a reduced revenue as compared to 2022.

在 TS 方面，我們不提供季度節奏。您可以認為 2023 年的季度環比相對持平，與 2022 年相比收入有所減少。

The next question comes from Brett Castelli with Morningstar.

下一個問題來自 Morningstar 的 Brett Castelli。

Just a question on longer-term gross margins. Should we expect gross margins by end segment or vertical to be pretty comparable? Or are there certain end segments that would be maybe higher or lower across the portfolio?

只是關於長期毛利率的問題。我們是否應該期望終端部門或垂直部門的毛利率具有相當的可比性？或者在整個投資組合中是否存在某些可能更高或更低的終端細分市場？

Yes. Great question. We are expecting to see certain verticals that have better gross margin performance and it's all a function of the various options that those verticals have to achieve their decarbonization goals, and the total cost of ownership for those market segments. So as an illustrative example, we would expect to see the marine market to be a higher gross margin segment than the truck market.

是的。很好的問題。我們期望看到某些垂直行業具有更好的毛利率表現，這完全取決於這些垂直行業為實現脫碳目標而必須採取的各種選擇，以及這些細分市場的總擁有成本。因此，作為一個說明性的例子，我們預計海運市場的毛利率將高於卡車市場。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Randy MacEwen, CEO, for any closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回給首席執行官 Randy MacEwen，聽取任何閉幕詞。

Thank you for joining us today. Paul, Kate and I look forward to speaking with you next quarter, and we also look forward to the Capital Markets Day in June. Thank you very much.

感謝您今天加入我們。 Paul、Kate 和我期待著下個季度與您交談，我們也期待著 6 月的資本市場日。非常感謝。

This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與，祝您度過愉快的一天。