BankFinancial Corp (BFIN) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by, and welcome to the BankFinancial Corp 2024 year-end earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Chairman and CEO, Mr. Morgan Gasior. Please go ahead.

各位朋友，感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎參加 BankFinancial Corp 2024 年終收益電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。現在，我謹將會議交給今天的第一位發言人，董事長兼執行長摩根·加西奧先生。請繼續。

Good morning. Welcome to the Fourth Quarter 2023 investor conference call. At this time, I'd like to have our forward-looking statement read.

早安.歡迎參加2023年第四季投資者電話會議。此時，我想請大家宣讀我們的前瞻性聲明。

The remarks made at this conference may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. We intend all forward-looking statements to be covered by the Safe Harbor provisions contained in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and are including this statement for purposes of invoking these Safe Harbor provisions.

本次會議的發言可能包含 1934 年證券交易法第 21E 條所指的前瞻性陳述。我們希望所有前瞻性聲明都能受到 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》中「安全港」條款的保護，並特此聲明以援引這些「安全港」條款。

Forward-looking statements involve significant risks and uncertainties and are based on assumptions that may or may not occur. They are often identifiable by use of the words believe, expect, intend, anticipate, estimate, project, plan or similar expressions. Our ability to predict results or the actual effects of our plans and strategies is inherently uncertain and actual results may differ from those predicted. For further details on the risks and uncertainties that could impact our financial condition and results of operation, please consult the forward-looking statements declaration and the risk factors we have included in our reports to the SEC.

前瞻性陳述涉及重大風險和不確定性，並且基於可能發生或不發生的假設。它們通常可以透過使用「相信」、「期望」、「打算」、「預料」、「估計」、「預測」、「計劃」或類似表達方式來識別。我們預測結果或計劃和策略的實際效果的能力本身就存在不確定性，實際結果可能與預測結果不同。有關可能影響我們財務狀況和經營業績的風險和不確定性的更多詳情，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告中的前瞻性聲明和風險因素。

These risks and uncertainties should be considered in evaluating forward-looking statements. We do not undertake any obligations to update any forward-looking statements in the future. And now I'll turn the call over to Chairman and CEO, Mr. F. Morgan Gasior.

在評估前瞻性陳述時，應考慮這些風險和不確定性。我們不承擔未來更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。現在我將把電話交給董事長兼執行長F·摩根·加西奧先生。

Thank you. At this time, we filed our press release and our five quarter supplement the Form 10K will be filed on its normal schedule in compliance with SEC requirements. So at this time, all of our filings are complete to date and we'll open it up for questions.

謝謝。目前，我們已提交新聞稿，並且我們的第五季補充報告（10-K 表格）將按正常時間表按照美國證券交易委員會的要求提交。因此，目前我們所有的申報工作已經完成，我們將開放接受提問。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Brian Martin, Janney.

謝謝。（操作說明）布萊恩馬丁，詹尼。

Hey, good morning.

嘿，早安。

Good morning and Happy New Year, Brian.

布萊恩，早安，新年快樂！

Yeah, happy new year to you guys. See I wanted Morgan, if you could give a little bit of color on just the long [past due loans] in the quarter, just the [factors], nice growth in the commercial finance and some shrinkage in the equipment finance. I was just wondering if you can give a little bit of color on that. And then just kind of your outlook here as you go into 2024?

是啊，祝你們新年快樂。我當時想問的是摩根，如果你能稍微詳細分析一下本季長期（逾期貸款）的情況，以及相關的因素，例如商業融資的良好成長和設備融資的萎縮。我只是想問您能否就此稍作補充說明。那麼，您對2024年的展望是什麼？

Sure. Well, let's start with commercial finance. It is the priority has been and will continue to be the priority for resource allocation and growth. And we had good utilization in the quarter. It was a little lumpy, but the balances stayed broadly steady what we didn't see as much our draws, we had lower overall volumes. So when you look at the originations for the quarter, they were down.

當然。好，我們先從商業金融說起。這一直是並將繼續是資源分配和成長的優先事項。本季我們的資源利用率很高。雖然波動有點大，但餘額總體上保持穩定；只是我們沒有看到太多的提款，整體交易量也較低。所以，當你查看本季的貸款發放時，你會發現貸款發放量有所下降。

So we had good balances as a percentage of total commitments, but we just didn't have as much draw activity in the fourth quarter. So that cost us a little bit in what we'll call intra quarter on interest income, right? Sometimes they'll draw for a month or five weeks and then pay it off. And we saw quite a bit of their activity in Q3 was very helpful, hence the focus on commercial finance and a little bit less so in the fourth quarter.

因此，我們的餘額佔總承諾的比例很好，但是我們在第四季度的提款活動並不多。所以，這導致我們在季度內利息收入方面損失了一些，對吧？有時他們會先畫一個月或五個星期的畫，然後再還清。我們看到他們在第三季度的許多活動都非常有幫助，因此我們更加關注商業金融，而第四季度則稍微減少了這方面的關注。

So the balances were steady during the quarter. We just didn't see the draw and payoff activity that generates that marginal interest income during the quarter, and we're going into 2024 with some reasonably good pipelines in the healthcare space. We're adding some new lessors in lessor finance in the equipment finance space, and we have some of the Chicago commercial finance pipeline starting to build.

因此，本季餘額維持穩定。本季我們沒有看到能夠產生邊際利息收入的資金投入和收益活動，但我們在 2024 年醫療保健領域擁有一些相當不錯的專案儲備。我們正在設備融資領域的租賃融資方面增加一些新的租賃公司，而且我們芝加哥的一些商業融資管道也開始建立起來。

Probably the biggest focus compared to 2023 is that as we said, before we're repositioning resources on into commercial finance from a personnel perspective, this will be essentially budget neutral. We're putting more resources into commercial finance and less resources into real estate, given the relative spread and the opportunities. And so to that extent, we'll probably have tripled the resources devoted to commercial finance in 2024 than you did in the beginning of 2023.

與 2023 年相比，最大的重點可能是，正如我們所說，在從人員角度將資源重新配置到商業金融之前，這基本上不會影響預算。鑑於兩者之間的相對差距和機遇，我們將加大對商業金融的投入，減少對房地產的投入。因此，從這個意義上講，到 2024 年，我們投入商業金融的資源可能會比 2023 年初增加三倍。

We've gone through a essentially Gradual [school] of credit training for this personnel, some customers, some of them come to us with good C&I experience and their past or their most recent past, but everybody had different credit trading and different credit experience. So in the fourth quarter, we thought all of our credit personnel, including the credit analysts through a graduate style of course, so that everybody is up to the same speed as far as credit skills.

我們對這批員工進行了循序漸進的信貸培訓，有些客戶帶著良好的商業和工業信貸經驗而來，他們過去或最近的信貸經驗都很好，但每個人的信貸交易和信貸經驗都不同。因此，在第四季度，我們對所有信貸人員，包括信貸分析師，進行了研究生式的培訓課程，以便每個人在信貸技能方面都能達到相同的水平。

Now they're going through the product training, given our base of products where we can offer a customer Standard Bank credit loan and ABL platform or accounts receivable factoring or some combination thereof [debt] is a unique product set in the market, and we need to make sure they fully understand the product and how it works to go out and sell it. And then commercial finance is going to take the lion's share within the commercial space of marketing expense.

現在他們正在接受產品培訓，鑑於我們現有的產品基礎，我們可以向客戶提供標準銀行信貸貸款和資產抵押貸款平台或應收帳款保理或它們的某種組合（債務），這在市場上是一套獨特的產品，我們需要確保他們完全了解產品及其運作方式，以便出去銷售它。然後，商業金融將在商業行銷費用領域佔據絕大部分份額。

So there is going to be our focus for 2024. The difficulty, of course, is utilization. And as much as we grow commitments, we have any number of commercial customers that are using their lines very much. For example, just this week, we have a customer that has a $7 million commitment, their balance at [$1231] and into January was $700,000, but they recently filed an increase to go to $15 million because they see some significant seasonal activity coming up.

所以這將是我們2024年的工作重點。當然，難點在於如何利用。隨著我們的業務量不斷增長，我們有很多商業客戶都在大量使用他們的線路。例如，就在本週，我們有一位客戶承諾投入 700 萬美元，其餘額為 [$1231]，到 1 月份時餘額為 70 萬美元，但他們最近申請將投入增加到 1500 萬美元，因為他們預計未來會有一些重要的季節性活動。

Once that seasonal activity is complete probably by the end of the third quarter. They want the commitment to go back down to save them. The non-use fee we can work with them on that, but it just gives you a sense of sometimes how volatile the wind utilization can be. You can build a lot of commitments. You don't always see the utilization right away and then suddenly something changes. So some of our borrowers are pretty steady borrowers.

季節性活動大概在第三季末完成。他們希望救援人員能夠再次深入敵後營救他們。我們可以和他們協商解決未使用費的問題，但這也能讓你感受到風能利用率有時會有多麼不穩定。你可以做出很多承諾。你並不總是能立即看到利用率，然後突然間情況發生了變化。所以，我們的借款人有些是相當穩定的借款人。

It's the nature of their business on healthcare can be like that. In other cases, it's very seasonal and spotty, and we just have to kind of [roll] with it, but growing the base of customers and growing the commitment base all the way from the small business side business banking down to $100,000, [$250,000] lines because we walk that core checking account on up to the larger corporate exposures. That's the focus for 2024.

這就是他們醫療保健產業的本質。在其他情況下，情況非常具有季節性和零星性，我們只能順其自然，但要不斷擴大客戶群和客戶忠誠度，從小型企業銀行業務一直到 10 萬美元、25 萬美元的信貸額度，因為我們將核心支票帳戶逐步擴展到更大的企業風險敞口。這就是2024年的工作重點。

As far as equipment finance is concerned, you saw the on the benefits from an asset liability perspective management perspective, you saw the benefits from equipment finance. We had approximately $200 million scheduled payments that we received in 2023. And we were able to reposition that into liquid funds and into originations at much higher rates. So that was a significant benefit to us in the fourth quarter.

就設備融資而言，從資產負債管理角度來看，您已經看到了設備融資帶來的好處。我們在 2023 年收到了約 2 億美元的預定付款。我們得以將這些資金重新配置到流動性基金和利率較高的貸款業務中。所以這在第四季對我們有很大的好處。

Typically, there is our strongest originations quarter just historically always been that way of which means, of course, that if you originated the third and fourth quarter, you will get the payments, you know, a greater proportion of payments in the third and fourth quarter, and that's what's happened to us, for 2024 we're going to see approximately $130 million of cash flows coming off the portfolio, the portfolio smaller.

通常情況下，我們的貸款發放最強勁的季度是第三季度，這在歷史上一直如此。這意味著，當然，如果你在第三季和第四季發放了貸款，你就會收到付款，你知道，第三季和第四季的付款比例會更高。這就是我們目前的情況，2024 年，我們將看到約 1.3 億美元的現金流量從投資組合中流出，投資組合規模也會縮小。

So our goal is to reposition $130 million into primarily the corporate side, investment grade rated corporate and then a little bit of middle market and small ticket. And then at that point, we'll produce as much as a 200 to 250 point increase in yields just from those cash flows alone. And then real estate had a quiet year. Our rate spiked, we are in the sevens for a bit of time that obviously dampened activity on a number of levels. But here in just the last few weeks because the treasury curve has come down some. We're starting to see some refinance opportunities come out.

因此，我們的目標是將 1.3 億美元重新配置到主要面向企業投資者的投資等級企業債券，然後再少量投資於中階市場和小額債券。屆時，光憑這些現金流，我們就能將收益率提高 200 到 250 個百分點。然後，房地產市場度過了平靜的一年。我們的利率飆升，一度徘徊在 7 以上，這顯然在許多方面抑制了經濟活動。但就最近幾週而言，情況有所改變，因為國債殖利率曲線有所下降。我們開始看到一些再融資機會出現。

We've seen a couple of customers that want to do equity cash-outs because they want to buy a value-add building on our -- their credit profile with us is strong. So we're able to work with them. And what that does is give us a higher yielding note on the original exposure.

我們看到一些客戶想要進行股權套現，因為他們想在我們這裡購買增值型建築——他們在我們這裡的信用記錄很好。所以我們能夠與他們合作。這樣做可以讓我們獲得比原始投資收益更高的票據。

And of course, a higher yielding asset on the new exposure. So I still think real estate will be the smallest of the originations in 2024 just because of where the market is right. Now, but we are starting to see a better interest in originations than we did say in second and third quarter and even early fourth because the yield curve is shifted.

當然，新增的投資標的收益率也更高。所以我仍然認為，由於市場狀況合適，房地產貸款在 2024 年的發放量將是最小的。現在，我們開始看到人們對貸款發放的興趣比第二季、第三季甚至第四季初都要高，因為殖利率曲線改變了。

Got you. Okay. And you said the pipelines are pretty strong right now heading into as part of its --?

抓到你了。好的。你說過，作為其一部分，目前的管道建設相當強勁。——？

(Inaudible) variable, the commercial finance, we're seeing growth in the commercial finance pipeline in the healthcare pipeline. We have some good opportunities that we're working through in the lessor finance, how often they draws an open question, but we're seeing commitment opportunities, equipment finance is starting to grow, but it's still kind of [same] I would say we're just getting ready. We just revised pricing here in January. And as I said, we're going through the credit training, but we just revised pricing based on where the curve is.

（聽不清楚）變量，商業融資，我們看到醫療保健領域的商業融資管道正在成長。我們在租賃融資方面有一些不錯的機會正在努力把握，至於這些機會出現的頻率如何，目前還不好說，但我們看到了一些投資機會，設備融資也開始增長，但情況仍然有些（相同），我想說我們只是在做準備。我們一月剛調整過價格。正如我所說，我們正在進行信貸培訓，但我們剛剛根據當前的曲線調整了定價。

Let me also say that especially in the higher quality core investment grade and high quality corporate spreads are very tight and we're able to invest in short term CDs right now in the mid to high fives. And the yields on investment grade corporates are in the mid to high fives. So it's very, very tight spreads. Obviously, people are concerned that there could be a recession may be less concerned after 3.3% GDP growth in the fourth quarter, but still concern.

我還想說，尤其是在高品質核心投資等級債券和高品質公司債券方面，利差非常小，我們現在可以以 5 到 5 的中高點投資短期 CD。投資等級公司債的收益率在5%到5%之間。所以價差非常非常小。顯然，人們擔心經濟衰退，在第四季度 GDP 成長 3.3% 後，這種擔憂可能會有所減輕，但仍存在擔憂。

But the spreads are wider out in the middle market in the small ticket space, obviously those are somewhat weaker companies, potentially higher credit risk. And so the spreads a little wider out there, but we're just getting started with the outreach on the corporate side and the investment side, we've got our cash flows market for that and we're going to push as hard as we can to put some volume up sooner in the year to help protect the interest income, the position and if the treasury yield curve were to decline further, if the [Fed] really starts move and later in the year, this way, we'll lock in some yields now and get the benefit of the income earlier in the year and protect interest income going forward.

但中階市場小額交易領域的利差較大，顯然這些公司實力較弱，信用風險可能較高。因此，目前利差略有擴大，但我們才剛開始拓展企業和投資領域的業務，我們有相應的現金流市場，我們將盡最大努力在今年早些時候增加交易量，以幫助保護利息收入和頭寸。如果國債殖利率曲線進一步下降，如果聯準會真的開始在今年稍後採取行動，透過這種方式，我們現在就可以鎖定一些殖利率，在今年稍早獲得收益，並保護未來的利息收入。

Okay. And just maybe two others from me. Morgan, just if you give a little bit of thought or As Paul, just on the margin outlook here with the rate cuts, but knowing that the deployments that you're thinking about here, just how you're thinking about either the dollars of net interest income kind of are we seeing a trajectory where it's kind of up throughout the year given the growth? Or are we just from a margin perspective? And then maybe just a little bit of thought on an update on kind of credit quality?

好的。或許我還會再加兩個人。Morgan，如果你稍微思考一下，或者像Paul一樣，就降息後的保證金前景而言，考慮到你在這裡考慮的部署，你如何看待淨利息收入的美元數額，鑑於經濟增長，我們是否會看到它在全年呈上升趨勢？或者我們只是從邊際角度來看？然後或許可以稍微考慮一下信用品質方面的更新？

Well, let me do both of those and then Paul can fill in on the net interest margin.

好的，讓我來計算這兩點，然後保羅可以補充淨利差部分。

Sure.

當然。

In the fourth quarter, we had a decline in interest income of about $200,000, principally due to just the decline in interest earning assets of that. That was an impact. And then the second component in the fourth quarter was the lower origination activity line activity, intra-period line activity that kind of flattened out our growth in interest income compared to third quarter.

第四季度，我們的利息收入下降了約 20 萬美元，這主要是由於產生利息的資產減少所致。那確實產生了影響。第四季的第二個因素是貸款發放活動減少，即同期貸款發放活動減少，這在一定程度上抑制了我們利息收入的成長，與第三季相比有所放緩。

And of course, we continued to see some increases in interest deposit interest expense in the fourth quarter. So going forward, we see the net interest margin as a percentage staying relatively stable in the first six months. And then we hope because the impact of originations as we go through the year is cumulative and also because we'll have securities that are maturing and repositioning in either securities or CDs or loans the securities portfolio.

當然，第四季利息存款利息支出也持續增加。因此，展望未來，我們預期淨利差百分比在前六個月將保持相對穩定。然後我們希望，因為隨著一年的進行，新增貸款的影響是累積的，而且我們還有一些證券到期，需要對證券、存單或貸款等證券投資組合進行重新配置。

The average yield on the securities portfolio that's maturing this year is 3%. So we own we feel pretty comfortable about picking up at least a couple of hundred points on that during the course of the year. And same for the maturing payments on equipment finance as we put that cash to work, those yields are in the mid to high [force]. We should still be able to pick up at least 100 points to 150 points on those cash flows.

今年到期的證券組合的平均報酬率為 3%。因此，我們很有信心在一年內至少獲得幾百分。同樣，當我們把現金用於投資時，到期的設備融資款項的收益率也處於中高水準。[力量]。我們應該仍然能夠從這些現金流中獲得至少 100 到 150 點的成長。

So I say stable, we hope to keep things stable in the first half, assuming that the balance sheet is stable, no degradation of interest-earning assets and then start to expand the percentage and increase the dollar amount of net interest margin in the second two quarters, we can put the cash flows to work.

所以我說穩定，我們希望上半年保持穩定，假設資產負債表穩定，生息資產沒有惡化，然後在下半年兩季開始擴大淨利差的百分比和金額，我們可以讓現金流發揮作用。

Perfect. Thanks.

完美的。謝謝。

First of all, banks are concerned from a credit quality is stable. You can see the numbers stayed stable from quarter over quarter. Our federal cases are filed with the prime contractors, and we're in the final stages of all the approvals and reviews. And so nothing to report there other than progress in the process on probably worth noting that credit quality net of the Federal was 31 basis points or so at the end of the year.

首先，銀行關注的是信貸品質是否穩定。你可以看到，這些數字每季都保持穩定。我們的聯邦案件已提交給主要承包商，目前正處於所有審批和審查的最後階段。因此，除了在信貸品質方面取得進展之外，沒有什麼可報告的。值得注意的是，截至年底，扣除聯邦信貸品質後，信貸品質約為 31 個基點。

And of that one equipment deal we have the equipment is being listed for sale now we're going to start a marketing process pretty much next week, and we hope to move it during the next several couple of months. We're not going to give it away, but we wanted to put an aggressive marketing and disposition program together.

至於我們之前達成的那筆設備交易，現在這台設備已經掛牌出售，我們下週左右就會開始行銷，希望在接下來的幾個月內能夠售出。我們不會白白送人，但我們希望制定一個積極的行銷和處置方案。

So if you took those three cases out, we were down to something like 15 or 18 basis points and if you look at the distribution, the real estate portfolio continues to perform well of the $200 million in equipment finance payments we received during the year $96 million came out of the government portfolio. So it did what it was supposed to do other than the two federal credits that we deal with and going forward, things seem relatively stable.

所以，如果排除這三個案例，我們的利率就降到了 15 或 18 個基點左右。從分佈情況來看，房地產投資組合持續表現良好；在我們當年收到的 2 億美元設備融資付款中，有 9,600 萬美元來自政府投資組合。所以，除了我們正在處理的兩項聯邦稅收抵免之外，它完成了它應該做的事情，而且展望未來，情況似乎相對穩定。

We'll have a couple of the special mention or substandard credits that if they improve their performance, then great, we'll keep them. And if they don't, then we'll start exiting them these are primarily working capital lines of credit. So they are self-liquidating in that context, but we felt pretty good about where credit ended at the end of the year. Obviously, you know that we don't have the material exposures to office in the portfolio. In fact, we had one office exposure pay off in fourth quarter. So the strength of the portfolio in multifamily at our lower risk commercial real estate seems to be serving as well.

我們會特別表揚幾位表現不佳或成績欠佳的學員，如果他們能改善表現，那就太好了，我們會保留他們。如果他們不這麼做，那麼我們將開始退出這些主要屬於營運資金信貸額度的計畫。所以從這個角度來看，它們是自我清算的，但我們對年底的信貸狀況感覺相當不錯。顯然，您也知道我們的投資組合中沒有對辦公大樓的實質投資。事實上，我們在第四季獲得了一筆辦公室投資回報。因此，我們在低風險商業房地產領域中，多戶住宅投資組合的優勢似乎也發揮了作用。

Got it. Okay. Maybe just a last one and I'll pass it on to someone else just the expense guide. It looks like you hired a few folks and it's just a little bit, may be still, but a little bit of noise in there on the credit quality expense. So just kind of thinking about that expense, I'm kind of I wouldn't call it non-recurring, but just on the on the credit expense kind of moderating and then just the new level kind of new run rate with some of the hires you've made this quarter? Thanks.

知道了。好的。也許就最後一份了，然後我就把這份費用指南轉交給別人。看起來你僱用了一些人，而且在信貸品質支出方面可能仍然存在一些問題。所以，我稍微考慮一下這筆支出，我不會稱之為非經常性支出，但信貸支出確實有所緩和，而且隨著本季度一些新員工的加入，支出水平也達到了新的水平，運行速度也發生了變化。謝謝。

Well, I would say if we're looking at expenses next year, somewhere around $41 million to $42.5 million. I know that's a fairly broad range, but there's a couple of factors there. One is the expense that's reported on compensation is in some ways a function of loan originations.

嗯，如果展望明年的支出，我認為大概在 4,100 萬美元到 4,250 萬美元之間。我知道這個範圍相當寬泛，但其中涉及幾個因素。一是薪酬中所報告的費用在某種程度上與貸款發放有關。

So if we have higher loan originations and particularly for new loans and new exposures, that a certain percentage of the compensation related to that especially incentive compensation is part of the deferral process if you have lower originations than the expense drops to the bottom line in that period.

因此，如果我們貸款發放量較高，特別是新貸款和新風險敞口，那麼與此相關的一定比例的補償，特別是激勵性補償，將作為遞延支付的一部分；如果貸款發放量較低，則該期間的支出將下降到利潤中。

So that will be a factor in terms of the [over called] GAAP compensation expense reported we do expect to sell the branch facility that's been under contract. We're down to the final state of [Illinois] approval of that's due, I think, in the next couple of weeks. So we hope to close that transaction in March and get that off the books.

因此，這將是報告的[超額] GAAP 薪酬費用的一個因素，我們預計將出售已簽訂合約的分行。我們現在只差伊利諾伊州的最終批准了，我認為應該會在接下來的幾週內完成。所以我們希望能在三月完成這筆交易，並將其從帳面上移除。

And then the other expense on the go. We are in the hopefully last stages of the claims process. On every time we get a comment or review it adds a little more to the bill, but I would expect that especially year over year to decline obviously. And given where credit quality stands right now, we would not expect it to recur. But of course, we'll just have to watch and wait and see. So that's why we think expenses of [$41 to $42.5 C] seem reasonable.

以及其他一些旅途中的開銷。我們應該已經進入理賠流程的最後階段了。每次收到評論或評價，都會增加一些費用，但我預計這筆費用尤其會逐年下降，這一點顯而易見。鑑於目前的信貸品質狀況，我們預計這種情況不會再次發生。當然，我們只能拭目以待了。所以，我們認為 [41 美元至 42.5 美元 C] 的費用看起來是合理的。

It's just going to be a primarily a function of how well we originate because that will affect the GAAP number. And then two, we'll see some variability in marketing expense route talk we need to talk to new customers and broaden the base and that is just a marketing expense. So if we do save money in one place or another, we'd like to deploy the marketing to keep the growth going on the loan side and the commercial deposit side.

這主要取決於我們的產品開發情況，因為這會影響GAAP資料。其次，我們會看到行銷費用方面存在一些差異，例如我們需要與新客戶溝通並擴大客戶群，而這只是一項行銷費用。因此，如果我們在某個方面節省了資金，我們希望利用行銷手段來維持貸款和商業存款方面的成長。

And I'd say the other variable expenses as inflation is still a bit with us when we see technology contracts and maintenance contracts command and even fixed asset maintenance contracts, we're still seeing high single digit, low double digit increases in some of the stuff and in some cases, you don't have much choice. So anything we save in terms of efficiencies sometimes is offset by some of these third party agreements that you have to have the assets.

而且我認為，由於通貨膨脹的影響，其他可變支出也出現了一定程度的上漲。我們看到技術合約、維護合同，甚至是固定資產維護合同，都出現了接近兩位數或接近兩位數的增長，在某些情況下，你別無選擇。因此，我們在效率方面節省的任何成本，有時都會被一些第三方協議所抵消，而這些協議要求你必須擁有相關資產。

There's really no choice in the matter. And your kind of setting -- I'm sure every business in America feels like that on, but that is some of the variables. So [$41 to $42.5 C] is a reasonable range for us on the as I said, the gross compensation levels should be static. It's a question of how the originations volume is, what we report on a quarter over quarter basis.

這件事其實別無選擇。而你這種環境——我相信美國的每個企業都會有這種感覺，但這只是其中的一些變數。所以，[41 美元至 42.5 美元 C] 對我們來說是一個合理的範圍，正如我所說，總薪酬水平應該保持不變。這取決於貸款發放量，也就是我們按季度環比報告的數據。

Got you. Okay. Well, thanks for taking the questions.

抓到你了。好的。謝謝您回答這些問題。

Appreciate your time.

感謝您抽出時間。

Thank you. [Henry walzak] from a private investor. Your line is open.

謝謝。 [亨利·沃爾扎克]，一位私人投資者。您的線路已開通。

Good morning, Morgan, how are you?

早安，摩根，你好嗎？

Good morning.

早安.

Happy [Groundholks Day]. Brian asked most of my questions, but I just have some commentary and couple of generic questions. While our stock price has improved a bit since last quarter and the last time we spoke, that's a good news. I hope Morgan hope you're doing and to help us old-time shareholders. It has been with mature for the last 18 years.

快樂的[土撥鼠日]。Brian問了我大部分問題，但我只有一些評論和幾個一般性問題。雖然我們的股價自上個季度和我們上次談話以來有所回升，但這仍然是個好消息。我希望摩根能幫到我們這些老股東。它已經成熟18年了。

And that being said, I have a time a generic and a whole list of questions here. Interest rates may be trending lower in the second half of the year. So is your team considering or looking at any strategical actions that makes sense at this time. I look forward to the potential for future [Fed rate cuts], right. For example, how much would a 25 basis point cut, or 50 basis point cut have on your bottom line? Thank you.

話雖如此，我這裡有一些通用問題和一長串問題。下半年利率可能呈現下降趨勢。那麼，您的團隊目前是否正在考慮或研究任何合理的策略行動？我期待未來聯準會降息的可能性，對吧。例如，降息 25 個基點或 50 個基點會對你的利潤產生多大影響？謝謝。

Okay. Well, certainly, as I said earlier, we’ve already seen a certain amount of decline in the United States Treasury curve, and we've been taking advantage of that throughout the last quarter or so by rolling some cash into medium to short -- medium term CD investments who which have currently been yielding better than Fed funds. So nor the [540].

好的。當然，正如我之前所說，我們已經看到美國國債殖利率曲線出現了一定程度的下降，在過去一個季度左右的時間裡，我們一直在利用這一點，將一些現金轉入中短期——目前收益率高於聯邦基金的中期定期存單投資。所以也不是[540]

On the point of focusing on the investment grade and the corporate equipment finance is the same strategy in a larger context. I'll pick up even more yield if we can maybe not as maybe not a great spread to Fed funds today, but if we can pick up anywhere between 35 to 50 basis points on the low end and maybe 100 basis points on the high end over current Fed funds, then 9 to 12 months from now, if the Fed does cut 75 to 100 points and the treasury curve follows that further so that you're looking at five year treasuries in the [318] range will have protected the interest income side.

從更大的角度來看，關注投資等級債券和企業設備融資的策略是相同的。如果能獲得更高的收益，我將不勝感激。雖然今天與聯邦基金利率的利差可能不大，但如果我們能在低端獲得 35 到 50 個基點，高端獲得 100 個基點，那麼在 9 到 12 個月後，如果美聯儲降息 75 到 100 個基點，並且國債收益率曲線進一步跟隨淨收入，使五年國債達到利息 [318] 方面利息收入

And at the same time, we should therefore get some benefit from declines in interest expense. So those are the two drivers of an improvement in net interest margin is, as I said earlier, protect the interest income side expanded through reinvestment and then do it within a reasonable duration. So that even into 25 and 26, should we go down to a lower rate environment instead of higher for longer, we would hit we would enjoy the protection of those assets at today's yields, which will be what phenomenal compared to the yields of nine months or a year from now.

同時，我們應該也能從利息支出的下降中獲得一些好處。因此，正如我之前所說，改善淨利差的兩個驅動因素是保護利息收入，透過再投資擴大利息收入，然後在合理的時間內實現這一目標。因此，即使到了 25 年和 26 年，如果我們進入較低的利率環境而不是長期處於較高利率環境，我們仍然可以享受這些資產在當前收益率下的保護，這與九個月或一年後的收益率相比將是驚人的。

Thank you. And the last quarter you mentioned the possibility of reaching and sustaining earnings of [$1.24]. Is that still possible in 2024 for the [Tepend] Q4 in 2023.

謝謝。上個季度您提到了實現並維持獲利的可能性[1.24 美元]2024 年，[Tepend] 2023 年第四季是否還有可能實現？

I think it's possible as we get towards the second half of the year to some degree, as I said earlier, if we have stability in the balance sheet, and we're not giving up interest income due to a decline in interest-earning assets. That's certainly helpful. The ability to reinvest the securities, especially later this year into higher yields will certainly be helpful. The ability to have higher yields on originations and more efficiency in the income statement as a result of that will certainly help.

我認為，隨著我們進入下半年，在某種程度上這是有可能的，正如我之前所說，如果我們資產負債表保持穩定，並且不會因為生息資產減少而放棄利息收入。那當然很有幫助。能夠將這些證券進行再投資，尤其是在今年稍後投資於更高收益率的項目，肯定會有所幫助。由此帶來的更高的貸款發放收益率和更有效率的損益表肯定會有所幫助。

And if we just have lower overall expenses or stability in expenses that will help. So yes, we think that as we get towards the second half and where if and if we're able to get the originations up where we want them to go, then the trend towards back into the low [twenty] and then the $0.25 a share, Q3, Q4 and then hold it.

如果我們能降低整體支出或維持支出穩定，將會有所幫助。所以，是的，我們認為，隨著我們進入下半年，如果我們能夠將貸款發放量提升到我們想要的水平，那麼股價的趨勢將回到每股 20 美元左右的低位，然後在第三季度、第四季度達到每股 0.25 美元，並保持住這個水平。

That's the whole point of re-investing in the medium term is if we can hold net interest income level, we should get the benefit of some reduction in interest expense over time. And that should not only be sustainable, but we should be able to build on it because we will have cash flows going into 2025 as well. But at that point, we should have materially lower interest expense and get the benefit of further expansion in net interest margin.

中期再投資的意義就在於，如果我們能夠維持淨利息收入水平，隨著時間的推移，我們應該能夠享受到利息支出減少的好處。這不僅應該是可持續的，而且我們應該能夠在此基礎上繼續發展，因為我們到 2025 年也將有現金流。但到那時，我們的利息支出應該會大幅降低，淨利差會進一步擴大，從而帶來好處。

Thank you, Morgan. And just one quick comment here. I like the improvement in MPAs and your book value of [12.45], you've got 1.2 times, [12.45] that's like Happy Lane and 1.3 times book of [12.45]. That's like Nirvana up bars and [we might] follow up shareholders shipment.

謝謝你，摩根。我這裡只想簡單提一點。我喜歡MPA的改善，以及你[12.45]的帳面價值，你的本益比是1.2倍，[12.45]就像Happy Lane一樣，本益比是1.3倍。[12.45]那就像 Nirvana 在酒吧一樣，[我們可能會]跟進股東的發貨。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. Steven Buckman, Buckman Capital.

謝謝。Steven Buckman，Buckman Capital。

Thank you. Good morning, Morgan and I have been a shareholder that took part in the conversion 18, 19 years ago. And I have a more holistic question as well. And that is what is the role of the Board of Directors. And I'm going to refer you to a conference call comment you made on May 2, 2022. And what you said I'm quoting is well, first of all, I think we're in position now where our goal for the third quarter and fourth quarter is to sustain right around $0.23, $0.26 a share.

謝謝。早安，我和摩根都是股東，我們參與了 18、19 年前的轉換。我還有一個更全面的問題。這就是董事會的職責。我也要請你參考一下你在 2022 年 5 月 2 日的電話會議上發表的言論。我引用的你剛才說的是，首先，我認為我們目前的目標是第三季和第四季的股價維持在每股 0.23 美元到 0.26 美元左右。

So I'm going to hit that $1 per share in our third quarter and fourth quarter, this is 2022 and then beginning next year, the goal of shift to getting into the high 30s or somewhere between [30% and $0.34] I could go on, but the fact is 18 years later, the only that was made out here ratio, our book value, our stock price, our franchise value are low, are all lower than they were in 2004 when you converted, what is the role of the Board of Directors in terms of your underperformance during this time?

所以，我的目標是在2022年第三季和第四季實現每股1美元的目標，然後從明年開始，目標是達到30美元以上，或是介於30%到0.34美元之間。我可以繼續說下去，但事實是，18年過去了，我們這裡唯一實現的比率、帳面價值、股價、特許經營價值都很低，都低於2004年你們轉型時的水平。在這段時間裡，董事會在你們績效不佳上扮演了什麼角色？

So this is the investor conference call. We're here to discuss.

這是投資者電話會議。我們來這裡是為了討論。

I'm quoting directly from May 2, 2022 --.

我直接引用的是 2022 年 5 月 2 日的內容—。

To say that if you want to discuss this offline and we're --.

也就是說，如果你想線下討論這件事，我們——。

No I'd rather be in a public forum.

不，我更願意在公共論壇上討論。

We're going to leave it there. I don't think that this is -- that the right forum for this --.

我們就到此為止吧。我不認為這是——這不是討論這個的合適論壇。——。

Well and your underperformance for 19 years as a matter of public record. So do you want to address it publicly or do you want to pretend that it doesn't exist?

還有，你19年來的業績不佳，這是公開記錄在案的。所以你是想公開回應這件事，還是想假裝它不存在？

I think we're going to leave it where I said this is the investor conference call. If you'd like to talk about it offline, we're happy to do so

我想我們就到此為止吧，我剛剛說這是投資者電話會議。如果您想私下討論，我們很樂意這樣做。

[Anytime] that you’re Coward is in that addressing issues that affect our public shareholders is severely by is staggering. I'll leave it at that. I think you could be doing a much better job. I think you should be looking at strategic alternatives, and I'll leave it at that.

[任何時候] 你都是懦夫，因為處理影響我們公眾股東的問題非常嚴重，這令人震驚。我就說到這兒吧。我認為你本可以做得更好。我認為你應該考慮其他戰略選擇，我就說到這裡吧。

Thank you. [Charles Vernick, Fulcrum].

謝謝。[查爾斯‧弗尼克，《支點》]

Yeah. Hi Morgan, this Charles Vernick on February 5, 2013, and you asked questions on your last call you received questions about selling the bank and you implied that it was not the right decision because better days are ahead of you. Why I definitely can't disagree with your assessment, especially considering the performance over the last few years, I don't really see any other avenue that would be more beneficial to shareholders than a sale.

是的。嗨，摩根，我是查爾斯·弗尼克，2013 年 2 月 5 日。你在上次通話中問了一些關於出售銀行的問題，你暗示這不是一個正確的決定，因為未來會有更好的日子。我完全同意你的評估，尤其考慮到過去幾年的業績，我真的看不出還有什麼比出售對股東更有利的途徑。

And while the earnings outlook has definitely improved your full earnings capacity still generate, [full] shareholder value. Your efficiency ratio is just too high. And while loan growth is always right around the corner, you admit on every call that the competition is intense, which I agree, which really just does justifies the fragmented nature of the markets and need consolidation.

雖然獲利前景確實有所改善，但你的全部獲利能力仍然能夠創造[全部]股東價值。你的效率比太高了。雖然貸款成長總是指日可待，但你在每次通話中都承認競爭非常激烈，我同意這一點，這也確實證明了市場分散的性質以及整合的必要性。

And so yes, we have improved outlook and [FD] capital, but all negatives really speak for themselves. And my question really is you've got most of your credit issues behind you now. Obviously, can you offer shareholders a credible plan that generates value superior to what you've could potentially receive in an M&A transaction?

所以，是的，我們的前景和[FD]資本都有所改善，但所有負面因素都顯而易見。我的問題是，你現在大部分的信用問題都已經解決了。顯然，你能否向股東提供一個可信的計劃，該計劃創造的價值高於你在併購交易中可能獲得的價值？

No one else say that you're talking about something from 10 years ago. Certainly, every quarter we give you our best assessment of where we stand and what we think the future holds. I think again, this is a contract and a conversation that can be had offline because we're talking about what we're trying to do with earnings and moving the franchise forward. Certainly, appreciate your views, but I'll leave it there.

沒人說你在說十年前的事。當然，我們每季都會向您提供我們對公司現狀以及未來發展趨勢的最佳評估。我認為，這是一份合同，也是一次可以在線下進行的對話，因為我們討論的是我們如何利用收益以及如何推動特許經營權向前發展。當然，我很欣賞你的觀點，但我就說到這裡吧。

Okay. I think you know; we can earn a return on. I think you mentioned that you could reach, you could earn a return on equity and average assets that's competitive to the market that we operate in. So that benchmark is can we do as well as our peers are doing and provide a good dividend return you know, it's just been a long time that we have --.

好的。我想你知道，我們可以從中獲得回報。我想你提到過，你可以達到，你可以獲得與我們所處市場具有競爭力的股本回報率和平均資產回報率。所以，衡量標準是我們能否像同業一樣做得一樣好，並提供良好的股息回報。你知道，我們已經很久沒有做到這一點了。——。

[Spurs] a dividend return. We've had a good dividend return. If you look at our dividend yield, obviously, that's a function of stock price to which we'd all hope to improve and as noted earlier, has improved, but we've had a good dividend, a good, steady dividend going forward. It's actually better than some of our peers in terms of return on average assets. We work with the challenges we have, but there have been trends both in the past in several instances, 2019.

[馬刺] 股息回報。我們獲得了不錯的股息報酬。如果你看一下我們的股息收益率，很明顯，這是股價的函數，我們都希望股價能夠提高，而且正如前面提到的，股價已經提高了，但我們一直保持著良好的股息，未來也將保持穩定的股息。就平均資產回報率而言，它實際上比我們的一些同行要好。我們努力應對面臨的挑戰，但過去也曾出現過一些趨勢，例如 2019 年。

And again, in 2022 where we are improving things and some of the speakers today complemented on us on that in the past. But our goals remain the same. The challenges we face in terms of what happens to us much, some of which is out of our control. We face a squarely and we do the best we can with it.

2022年，我們再次改進了相關工作，今天發言的一些嘉賓也曾對我們過去在這方面所做的工作表示讚揚。但我們的目標始終不變。我們面臨的挑戰在於，很多事情都發生在我們身上，其中一些是我們無法控制的。我們坦然面對，並盡我們所能做到最好。

But going forward for 24 as we continue to deploy the cash, given the asset liability management that we can we make our way back towards our $0.20 a share $0.25 a share, but the share as that takes place, we get into the 90s or so in return on average assets, we would have very good asset quality. As you noted, credit quality is improving.

但展望未來，隨著我們繼續部署現金，鑑於我們能夠進行的資產負債管理，我們將逐步恢復到每股 0.20 美元至 0.25 美元的目標價位，而隨著這一目標的實現，平均資產回報率將達到 90 美元左右，我們的資產質量也將非常出色。正如您所指出的，信貸品質正在改善。

And at that point, even though we have surplus capital, a return on an equity using an 8.5% or 9% consolidated capital as a base produces a double digit return on equity. And those are all achievable numbers over as time goes forward. Certainly we can't do anything about the past we can continue to focus on the future. But thank you for your comments.

到那時，即使我們有剩餘資本，以 8.5% 或 9% 的合併資本為基礎計算的權益回報率也能產生兩位數的權益回報率。隨著時間的推移，這些都是可以實現的數字。當然，我們無法改變過去，但我們可以繼續專注於未來。不過，謝謝你的評論。

So if you've been a long-term shareholder for the past 19 years when you went public on the remaining public, I don't know. I just have made any money in the company for the past 19 years, except for the dividend, it just seems like there's you should be looking at other alternatives.

所以，如果你在過去 19 年裡一直是公司的長期股東，而公司後來又上市了，那我就不知道了。過去 19 年裡，除了股息之外，我在這家公司沒賺到任何錢，看來你應該考慮其他投資機會了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. Zain Shah, DA Davidson.

謝謝。Zain Shah，DA Davidson。

Good morning, guys. A quick question on what is your outlook for deposit growth in 2022 or 2024? And what is your outlook I guess, for loan-to-deposit ratio, is there a number or a certain level that you won't go above? You were at 83% this year versus 89% last year. And do you plan to use broker deposits as a source of deposit growth?

各位早安。請問您對2022年或2024年的存款成長前景有何看法？那麼，您對貸款存款比率有何看法？是否存在一個您不會超過的數字或特定水平？今年你的完成率為 83%，而去年為 89%。您是否計劃利用經紀商存款作為存款成長的來源？

Okay. Deposits have stabilized a bit fourth quarter was the first quarter, we saw reasonable stabilization. We had a bit of a decline principally in public funds, which is kind of expected and seasonal. So our outlook for 24 hard to say, for sure, but probably a good case scenario as deposits remain flat. And that would mean interest earning assets can stay stable and we can enjoy the benefit of keeping money working as far as loan-to-deposit ratio, we'd like to work that back up to about 90%.

好的。存款狀況在第四季趨於穩定，這是第一個出現明顯穩定的季度。公共資金略有下降，這在預料之中，而且具有季節性。因此，我們對 24 日的展望很難說，但可以肯定的是，由於存款保持平穩，情況可能會比較樂觀。這意味著生息資產可以保持穩定，我們可以享受資金持續運作的好處。至於貸款存款比率，我們希望將其恢復到 90% 左右。

Now what are the deposits if they're down by 3%. That would be a somewhat lower loan portfolio, but that would indicate for if we go off of the [1231] deposits, that would indicate roughly of [$1 billion] loan portfolio. So roughly somewhere between 5% and 8% growth in loan growth for the year to achieve 90%, given the cash flows that we're seeing come off the loan portfolio again, no dispute about it.

如果存款下降了 3%，那麼存款額是多少？那將是一個略低的貸款組合，但如果按照 [1231] 存款計算，那將表明貸款組合大約為 [10 億美元]。因此，考慮到我們再次看到貸款組合的現金流，要達到 90% 的貸款成長率，今年的貸款成長率大約在 5% 到 8% 之間，這一點毋庸置疑。

There is competition for assets, but those would be the goals we would have. 90% is a good number for us especially given the scheduled cash flows we get from the portfolio. Again, last year, we had $200 million of cash flows coming back at us, which serve our purposes to re-invest at higher yields. I think we had a number of peers who wish they had that kind of cash flow to invest in higher yields.

資產競爭確實存在，但這些正是我們所追求的目標。考慮到我們從投資組合中獲得的預期現金流，90% 的回報率對我們來說是一個理想的數字。同樣，去年我們獲得了 2 億美元的現金流，這符合我們以更高收益率進行再投資的目的。我認為我們有很多同業都希望擁有這樣的現金流，以便投資收益更高的項目。

And I think we have a number of peers who wish they had invested in lower-yielding securities on that left them significantly underwater as opposed to our situation where we improved tangible book value. And we do not anticipate any increase or use of brokered deposits given our liquidity, again, the benefit of liquidity if we needed deposits, that would be a different situation right now, we want to stabilize that with the customers we have grow, especially the commercial deposit base and work on share of wallet for the retail deposit base.

我認為我們有很多同業都後悔當初投資了收益率較低的證券，結果導致他們蒙受了巨大的損失，而我們卻提高了有形帳面價值。鑑於我們目前的流動性，我們預計不會增加或使用經紀存款。再次強調，如果我們需要存款，流動性將帶來好處。但現在情況有所不同，我們希望透過發展現有客戶來穩定市場，特別是商業存款基礎，並努力提高零售存款基礎的份額。

So right now, we wouldn't anticipate any material use sort of broker deposits. If we were going to trying to manage interest rate risk, we would probably think about using federal home loan bank advances. So we can precisely target what we needed. But even now we're expecting the Home Loan Bank advances to roll-off, it save us some interest expense.

所以目前，我們預計不會有任何實質的經紀存款。如果我們想要控制利率風險，我們可能會考慮使用聯邦住房貸款銀行的預付款。這樣我們就能精準地找到我們所需要的東西。但即便現在我們預期房屋貸款銀行的預付款會到期，這也能為我們節省一些利息支出。

Great. And I guess the second question is, what is your outlook for fee income. As you mentioned kind of in line with that. What efficiency ratio or do you guys see for 2024?

偉大的。那麼第二個問題是，您對手續費收入的預期如何？正如你所說，這有點類似。你們預計2024年的效率比率會是多少？

There's two separate questions there the fee income side, we have some opportunities to improve fee income. Even on the retail side, we're very conservative in terms of how we process transactions, but we have increasing customer requests to, for example, enable of overdrafts or negative balances using debit cards and ATM cards. That is an opt-in process that customers have to request.

這裡有兩個不同的問題，關於費用收入方面，我們有一些提高費用收入的機會。即使在零售方面，我們在處理交易方面也非常保守，但我們收到的客戶請求越來越多，例如，希望能夠使用借記卡和 ATM 卡進行透支或使用負餘額。這是一個需要客戶主動申請才能加入的過程。

And because there's just now fewer cheques and more electronic transactions and more ATM and debit card than cheques. And even over the counter, we're seeing a greater interest in that. So we are going to enable that it's a risk function, but we're going to enable that. And that obviously will potentially help on some retail fee income, but we don't want to get over-reliant on it and we certainly need to might be mindful of the credit exposure. So that's one of the reasons why we've been conservative with it.

因為現在支票的使用量減少了，電子交易、ATM 和金融卡的使用量增加了，支票的使用量減少了。即使是非處方藥，我們也看到人們對它的興趣越來越濃厚。所以我們將啟用它，這是一個風險功能，但我們將啟用它。這顯然可能對一些零售手續費收入有所幫助，但我們不想過度依賴它，而且我們當然需要注意信貸風險。所以，這就是我們一直採取保守做法的原因之一。

On the other remainders of interest and of that interest income. We've enjoyed some growth in the trust department and we're continuing to focus on the trust side and including the basic trust services and even adding some business trust and complex trust.

其餘剩餘利息及該利息收入。我們在信託部門取得了一些成長，我們將繼續專注於信託方面，包括基本信託服務，甚至增加一些商業信託和複雜信託服務。

Those are longer sales cycles, but we've enjoyed some growth on the top line in the trust department, and we're hoping to build on that with some greater sales efforts and focus on people in the second, in the 24 time frame, we'll get some help from the bank-owned life insurance portfolio that was a negative contributor in 2023 due to market rates as market rates adjust, that will be a positive contributor of potentially as much as $0.5 million. So we could see some improvement in non-interest income from all those sources, including I might add the Treasury Services side where we're adding fee income due to paying agency services.

這些銷售週期較長，但我們在信託部門的收入方面取得了一些成長，我們希望透過加強銷售力度，並更加關注客戶，來在此基礎上繼續發展。在第二個24年的時間範圍內，我們將從銀行擁有的壽險組合中獲得一些幫助。由於市場利率的調整，該組合在2023年對收入產生了負面影響，但隨著市場利率的調整，它將成為潛在的正貢獻者，收入可能高達50萬美元。因此，我們可以看到所有這些來源的非利息收入都有所改善，包括我可能還要補充的財務服務方面，因為我們支付代理服務費而增加了費用收入。

On the commercial side, the efficiency ratio is really a function of top line growth. And then to a certain extent, again, back to loan originations and loan deferred deferral of loan expenses on originations, make the place more efficient on the top line and then make it more efficient in non-interest expense. So for our size institution, especially if it stabilizes, given some of the expenses that we just see flowing through us somewhere in the low 60s to mid 60s, seems a reasonable range to us. We could theoretically if we really optimize the loan portfolio.

從商業角度來看，效率比率實際上是營收成長的函數。然後在某種程度上，再次回到貸款發放和貸款延期發放（即遞延貸款發放費用），提高收入效率，然後提高非利息支出效率。因此，對於我們這種規模的機構來說，特別是如果情況穩定下來，考慮到我們看到的一些開支，60%到60%左右的支出在我們看來是一個合理的範圍。理論上，如果我們真正優化貸款組合，就可以做到。

Got it more up to 95% with a greater mix of commercial finance. You could see there going into the low 60s, but I think that's a highly it would be about as a perfect environment for us more assets and the prime plus a half prime plus one range and a greater total loan book for that. And I don't see that for 24, it will be theoretically possible for 25. But if we can get ourselves into the low to mid to high 60s by the end of the year, we think that's the right place to be just given the fixed asset base that we have a fixed expense base that we have to deal with.

透過更多地運用商業融資，成功率達到了95%。你可以看到利率可能會跌到 60 左右，但我認為這對我們來說是一個非常理想的環境，可以讓我們擁有更多資產，以及優質貸款加上一半優質貸款加上一個貸款範圍，以及更大的貸款總額。我不認為24歲就能做到，理論上25歲是有可能的。但是，如果我們能在年底前將利潤率提升到 60% 左右，考慮到我們的固定資產基礎和固定支出基礎，我們認為這是一個合適的水平。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you. Ross Haberman, RLH Investments.

謝謝。羅斯哈伯曼，RLH 投資公司。

Good morning, Morgan. How are you?

早安，摩根。你好嗎？

Good morning, Ross.

早安，羅斯。

I wanted to go back to your leasing portfolio. I've spoken to a number of banks [have a lift on a week or two or three, but they are up] many of them are seeing a pickup in non-performing and delinquencies in the leasing and residual part of their portfolios in different parts of the country. Are you seeing any of that weakness? I know you talked about the two government leasing issues, but are you seeing anything else and could you tell me what your allowance generally is for leasing type of loans?

我想回到您的租賃組合頁面。我與多家銀行進行了交談（雖然可能在一兩週或三週內有所回升，但總體而言是上升的），其中許多銀行都發現，在全國各地，其租賃和剩餘資產組合中的不良貸款和拖欠貸款都在增加。你發現這方面的弱點了嗎？我知道您談到了兩個政府租賃問題，但您還看到其他什麼情況嗎？您能否告訴我您通常對租賃類貸款的允許額度是多少？

Well, let's talk about [1231] status. First of all, we don't invest in residuals. So I think that's an important point. Obviously residual investments can be extremely profitable and if you get the realization that you're hoping for, but we work with independent lessors and they take the residual exposure, we may help finance it, but we have very, very little exposure.

好，我們來談談[1231]的狀態。首先，我們不投資剩餘收益。所以我認為這一點很重要。顯然，剩餘投資可能非常有利可圖，如果你能實現你所希望的收益，但我們與獨立的出租人合作，他們承擔剩餘風險，我們可能會幫助融資，但我們的風險敞口非常非常小。

We have no on-balance sheet exposure to residual investments and relatively minimal exposure to financing residuals for our independent lessor customers. And as far as credit trends are concerned, from the corporate portfolio continues to perform very, very well. It's again why we're focused on the higher grade corporate for 24. And we still think there could be some uncertainties in the market. And that's in part why the our spreads are tight in that segment because I think many people agree with us.

我們資產負債表上沒有剩餘投資曝險，對獨立出租客戶的剩餘融資曝險也相對較小。就信貸趨勢而言，企業貸款組合的表現持續非常非常好。這也是為什麼我們再次專注於24小時的高階企業服務。我們仍然認為市場可能存在一些不確定因素。部分原因在於，我們在該領域的價差很小，因為我認為很多人都同意我們的觀點。

And to your earlier point, Ross, the potential experiences that people are seeing are maybe why the spreads are comparably wider in some cases, you can almost dictate your pricing as you get into the middle market space. But the portfolio remains stable for us. We have every once in a while a default in the small ticket portfolio, we're working through the handful of issues that worked through that we saw in the second quarter, but third and fourth quarter so far and now first quarter and those portfolios have been stable.

至於你之前提到的，羅斯，人們所看到的潛在體驗或許可以解釋為什麼在某些情況下價差相對較大，當你進入中端市場領域時，你幾乎可以掌控自己的定價。但對我們來說，投資組合依然保持穩定。小額投資組合偶爾會出現違約，我們正在努力解決第二季度出現的一些問題，第三季和第四季以及現在的第一季度，這些投資組合都保持穩定。

And going back to my question, typically, what is the allowance on those type of loans versus, say, a general commercial real estate loans. What's what kind of allowance do you set aside for every $100 million worth loans you make on the leasing side?

回到我的問題，通常情況下，這類貸款的允許額度與一般商業房地產貸款相比如何？租賃方面每發放1億美元的貸款，你們會預留多少準備金？

For us, some of the equipment finance side for the government loans, we put away very little because the government is backing those leases and the investment grade. It's similar to like an investment grade securities. So we put away very little against that. But for the remainder of the equipment finance portfolio, we're putting away about a point against the loans.

對我們來說，政府貸款的一些設備融資方面，我們幾乎不需要存錢，因為政府為這些租賃和投資等級貸款提供了擔保。它類似於投資等級證券。所以我們在這方面幾乎沒有做任何準備。但對於剩餘的設備融資組合，我們每筆貸款大約預留 1 個百分點的利息。

And on those government ones, you're saying they guarantee basically 100% or --.

至於那些政府提供的保險，你的意思是它們基本上能保證100%或——。

No, [nothing like] the government that is the counterparty. So we put away very little against that. Now we do have the non-renewal issues that we're dealing with on the two credits. But for the most part, it's government that is the lessee on those particular leases.

不，[完全不是]作為交易對手的政府。所以我們在這方面幾乎沒有做任何準備。現在我們正在處理這兩個信用額度的不續期問題。但大多數情況下，這些特定租賃合約的承租方都是政府。

Okay. And just one general question Morgan. You in the top guys there are your bonuses based on return on equity return on assets what is or EPS growth, what are your bonuses? What's the makeup of the [percentages]?

好的。摩根，我還有一個比較籠統的問題。你們這些高階主管的獎金是根據淨資產收益率、總資產收益率或每股收益成長率來計算的，你們的獎金是多少？它的組成是什麼？百分比？

As a reminder, you'd have a proxy statement from last year that calculation and that Matrix has been consistent for several years. So I'd suggest take a look at that because they will give you all the information that we have available.

提醒一下，您可以參考去年的代理聲明，其中有計算結果，而且 Matrix 的數據多年來一直保持一致。所以我建議你去看一下，因為他們會提供我們掌握的所有資訊。

Okay. Thank you very much.

好的。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) Jason Stock, M3 Funds.

（操作員說明）Jason Stock，M3 基金。

Hey, Morgan. Good morning. As you know, we've been long-term investors and BankFinancial, and we're generally not the type of investor who likes to be much of it. And do you sense that as owners of over 9% of the company.

嘿，摩根。早安.如你所知，我們一直是 BankFinancial 的長期投資者，而且我們通常不是那種喜歡大量投資的投資者。身為公司9%以上的股東，你們是否感受到了這一點？

I think I'd be probably irresponsible of me to not pipe in and say that we agree with all the comments that have been made about the outlook for the bank as an independent entity and the one positive complement that we can give you is that you've done a great job building and maintaining the what we'd say is a really attractive deposit franchise.

我認為，如果我不插話表示我們同意所有關於銀行作為獨立實體的前景的評論，那我就太不負責任了。我們唯一能給予你們的積極讚揚是，你們在建立和維護我們認為非常有吸引力的存款業務方面做得非常出色。

You've done a good job with your deposit cost, and we'd say that in your market area. You've got a lot of scarcity value, and we think the time has come to find a partner that can take the bank forward from here.

你們的定金成本控制得很好，我們認為這在你們的市場區域內是相當不錯的。你們擁有很高的稀缺價值，我們認為現在是時候尋找一個能夠帶領銀行繼續前進的合作夥伴了。

Thank you for your comment, Jason.

謝謝你的評論，傑森。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

I'm not showing any further questions at this time. I would like to now turn it back to F. Morgan Gasior for closing remarks.

我目前不再提出其他問題。現在我謹將發言權交還給F·摩根·加西奧，請他作總結發言。

Thank you, all for your participation. We'll be in touch after our next conference -- after our next quarterly results.

感謝各位的參與。我們將在下次會議之後——也就是下個季度業績公佈之後——與您聯繫。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. That does conclude the program. You may now disconnect, and everyone have a great day.

感謝您參加今天的會議。節目到此結束。現在您可以斷開連線了，祝大家今天過得愉快。