BCP Investment Corp (BCIC) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to BCP Investment Corporation's fourth quarter and full year ended December 31, 2025, earnings conference call. An earnings press release was distributed yesterday, March 5, after market close.

您好，歡迎參加 BCP Investment Corporation 截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日之第四季及全年財報電話會議。公司已於昨日 3 月 5 日收盤後發布盈餘新聞稿。

A copy of the release, along with an earnings presentation is available on the company's website at www.bcpinvestmentcorporation.com in the Investor Relations section and should be reviewed in conjunction with the company's Form 10-K filed yesterday with the SEC.

新聞稿副本及盈餘簡報可於公司網站 www.bcpinvestmentcorporation.com 的投資人關係專區取得，並應與公司昨日向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的 Form 10-K 一併閱讀。

As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded for replay purposes. Please note that today's conference call may contain forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance or results and involve a number of risks and uncertainties.

提醒各位，本次電話會議將錄音以供重播。另請注意，今日電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，該等陳述不保證未來績效或結果，且涉及多項風險與不確定性。

Actual results may differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements as a result of a number of factors, including those described in the company's filings with the SEC.

由於多項因素（包括公司向 SEC 提交之文件中所述因素），實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述存在重大差異。

BCP and Investment Corporation assumes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements unless required by law. Speaking on today's call will be Ted Gold, Chief Executive Officer, President and Director of BCP Investment Corporation; Brandon Satoren, Chief Financial Officer; and Patrick Schafer, Chief Investment Officer. With that, I would now like to turn the call over to Ted Goldthorpe, Chief Executive Officer of BCP Investment Corp. Please go ahead, Ted.

除非法律要求，BCP Investment Corporation 不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述之義務。今日與會發言者包括：BCP Investment Corporation 執行長、總裁兼董事 Ted Gold；財務長 Brandon Satoren；以及投資長 Patrick Schafer。接下來我將把電話交給 BCP Investment Corp. 執行長 Ted Goldthorpe。Ted，請開始。

Good morning. Welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2025 earnings call. I'm joined today by our Chief Financial Officer, Brandon Satoren; our Chief Investment Officer, Patrick Schafer, and the rest of the team. Following my opening remarks on the company's performance activities during the fourth quarter and full year, Patrick will provide commentary on our investment portfolio and our markets, and Brandon will discuss our operating results and financial condition in greater detail. I'd like to start by discussing some highlights as 2025 was a transformational year for the company.

各位早安。歡迎參加我們 2025 年第四季及全年財報電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有財務長 Brandon Satoren、投資長 Patrick Schafer，以及團隊其他成員。在我就公司於第四季及全年之營運表現與活動發表開場談話後，Patrick 將就我們的投資組合與市場提供評論，Brandon 則將更詳細說明營運成果與財務狀況。我想先談幾項重點，因為 2025 年對公司而言是轉型的一年。

In July, we completed our merger with Logan Ridge and in August, we successfully completed a rebranding and name change. The merger meaningfully strengthened our platform, expanded our scale and broadened our portfolio diversification.

7 月，我們完成與 Logan Ridge 的合併；8 月，我們也順利完成品牌重塑與更名。此合併顯著強化了我們的平台、擴大規模，並提升投資組合的分散程度。

At the same time, our rebranding better reflects our affiliation with the broader BC Partners credit platform and is a representation of our long-term vision as we position the company for its next phase of growth.

同時，我們的品牌重塑更能反映我們與更廣泛的 BC Partners 信貸平台之關聯，也展現我們的長期願景，並在公司邁向下一階段成長之際做好定位。

In December, we completed our tender offer by purchasing roughly 558,000 shares at an aggregate cost of approximately $7.6 million, which was accretive to NAV by $0.18 a share.

12 月，我們完成要約收購，以約 760 萬美元的總成本買回約 558,000 股，並使每股淨資產價值（NAV）增加 0.18 美元。

Consistent with our diligent capital market management strategy, during the year, we also proactively extended and laddered our unsecured debt maturities, issuing $75 million of 7.75% notes due October 2030, and $35 million of 7.5% notes due October 2028, while also redeeming our [4%, 7%, 8%] notes due 2026.

秉持我們審慎的資本市場管理策略，年內我們亦主動延長並分散（梯次化）無擔保債務到期結構，發行 7,500 萬美元、票面利率 7.75%、2030 年 10 月到期之票據，以及 3,500 萬美元、票面利率 7.5%、2028 年 10 月到期之票據，同時贖回我們於 2026 年到期的 [4%, 7%, 8%] 票據。

These actions further diversified our funding base and provide us with enhanced financial flexibility. As a result of this year's performance and the successful execution of multiple strategic initiatives, the Board of Directors approved a quarterly base distribution of $0.32 a share for the quarter ended March 31, 2026.

這些措施進一步分散了我們的資金來源，並提升財務彈性。基於今年的表現以及多項策略性計畫的成功執行，董事會核准截至 2026 年 3 月 31 日季度的每股 0.32 美元季度基本配息。

Additionally, the Board also approved the transition of the company's base dividend payment schedule from quarterly to monthly beginning in the month of April 2026, while retaining the potential for quarterly supplemental distributions.

此外，董事會亦核准自 2026 年 4 月起，將公司基本股利支付頻率由按季改為按月，同時保留按季發放補充配息的可能性。

We believe this change better aligns our distribution schedule with shareholder interests. The Board approved a regular monthly base distribution of $0.09 per share for each of the months of April, May and June 2026.

我們相信此變更能更好地使配息時程與股東利益一致。董事會核准 2026 年 4 月、5 月及 6 月各月每股 0.09 美元的例行每月基本配息。

Also consistent with previous years, on March 4, 2026, the Board authorized a renewed stock purchase program of up to $10 million for approximately a one-year period.

同樣延續往年作法，董事會於 2026 年 3 月 4 日核准更新股票回購計畫，於約一年的期間內最多回購 1,000 萬美元。

All these initiatives I've discussed are designed to enhance shareholder value and reaffirm our commitment to shareholders. During the quarter, we generated net investment income of $7.4 million or $0.57 a share compared to $8.8 million or $0.71 per share in the prior quarter.

我所提到的這些措施皆旨在提升股東價值，並重申我們對股東的承諾。本季我們創造淨投資收益 740 萬美元，或每股 0.57 美元；相較前一季為 880 萬美元，或每股 0.71 美元。

For the year, we generated $25.1 million or $2.28 per share compared to $24 million or $2.59 per share for 2024. We remain focused on executing our strategic initiatives, managing expenses, optimizing portfolio positioning to support earnings and distribution coverage over time.

全年而言，我們創造 2,510 萬美元，或每股 2.28 美元；相較 2024 年為 2,400 萬美元，或每股 2.59 美元。我們仍專注於執行策略性計畫、管理費用，並最佳化投資組合配置，以在時間推移中支持盈餘與配息覆蓋。

Before handing the call over, I'd like to take a moment to address recent developments in the broader credit markets, specifically regarding the software segment.

在把電話交出去之前，我想花點時間談談近期更廣泛信貸市場的發展，特別是軟體產業。

Over the last several weeks, we've seen a notable risk-off move in public software valuations, driven largely by uncertainty and speculation around how quickly AI adoption might change competitive dynamics rather than broad-based fundamental deterioration across the sector.

過去幾週，我們看到公開市場軟體估值出現明顯的避險（risk-off）走勢，主要是由於對 AI 導入速度可能如何改變競爭態勢的不確定性與揣測所致，而非整個產業出現廣泛的基本面惡化。

As a reminder, BCIC remains broadly diversified with investments across 34 industries and software representing approximately 12.5% of the portfolio's fair market value. We've been proactive in evaluating our software-related exposure through AI disruption lens.

提醒各位，BCIC 仍維持高度分散，投資涵蓋 34 個產業，軟體約占投資組合公允市值的 12.5%。我們已主動以 AI 可能造成的顛覆角度，評估我們與軟體相關的曝險。

Based on our internal review, the overwhelming majority of software exposure we track is assessed as low to medium AI impact and only a small portion is viewed as high impact.

根據我們的內部檢視，我們追蹤的軟體曝險中，絕大多數被評估為 AI 影響程度低至中等，僅有小部分被視為高影響。

We also believe the market will increasingly differentiate between companies that are mission-critical and embedded in customer workflows, often supported by proprietary data, higher switching costs and customers operating in regulated industries versus simpler point solutions that may be more vulnerable if they fail to incorporate AI into their products and operations.

我們也認為，市場將愈來愈能區分：一方面是對客戶至關重要、深度嵌入客戶工作流程、通常由專有資料支撐、轉換成本較高且客戶多在受監管產業營運的公司；另一方面則是較為簡單的點狀解決方案（point solutions），若未能將 AI 納入其產品與營運，可能更為脆弱。

As a result, our focus remains on selectivity and credit quality structure with underwriting and monitoring that emphasizes revenue durability, retention, pricing power and downside protection.

因此，我們仍聚焦於選擇性與信用品質結構，並透過承作審查與持續監控，強調營收持久性、留存率、定價能力與下行保護。

Looking ahead, while macroeconomic headwinds persist, we believe current market dynamics continue to create compelling opportunities for our disciplined strategy. We anticipate that 2026, will bring increased activity in the M&A market and expect to capitalize on opportunities in our portfolio.

展望未來，儘管總體經濟逆風仍在，我們認為目前的市場動態持續為我們的紀律策略創造具吸引力的機會。我們預期 2026 年併購（M&A）市場活動將增加，並期望把握我們投資組合中的相關機會。

With a larger, more diversified platform and a stronger balance sheet heading into the year, we believe we are well positioned to drive continued earnings growth and long-term value creation.

在進入新的一年之際，憑藉更大且更多元的平台以及更強健的資產負債表，我們相信公司已具備良好條件，推動持續的盈餘成長與長期價值創造。

With that, I will turn over the call to Patrick Schafer, our Chief Investment Officer, for a review of our investment activity.

接下來，我將把電話交給投資長 Patrick Schafer，請他回顧我們的投資活動。

Thanks, Ted. During the fourth quarter, we were intentionally prudent in new investment deployment as we executed on several key capital initiatives, including our debt refinancing and tender offer. We view this as disciplined capital management, and we are looking to deploy into attractive opportunities as conditions warrant.

謝謝你，Ted。第四季期間，因我們執行數項關鍵資本計畫（包括債務再融資與要約收購），在新投資部署上我們刻意保持審慎。我們將此視為紀律性的資本管理，並將在條件允許時部署於具吸引力的機會。

Competition remains elevated across sponsor-backed drug lending, particularly for higher quality assets, and we continue to see lenders competing not only on spreads, but also on terms and certainty of execution.

在由贊助商支持的直接放款領域，競爭仍然激烈，尤其是高品質資產；我們持續看到放款人不僅在利差上競爭，也在條款與執行確定性上競爭。

In environments like these, we continue to stay disciplined, prioritizing transactions where we can achieve appropriate economics alongside strong documentation and downside protections.

在這樣的環境下，我們仍維持紀律，優先考量能在具備完善文件與下行保護的前提下，取得適當經濟條件的交易。

Where pricing returns are compelling. We are comfortable stepping back and continuing to be selective from a credit quality perspective to focus on maximizing risk-adjusted returns for our shareholders.

在定價與報酬具吸引力之處。從信用品質角度而言，我們也樂於適度退一步並持續保持選擇性，以專注於為股東最大化風險調整後報酬。

Turning to Slide 10. Originations for the fourth quarter were $9.6 million and repayments of sales were $40.4 million, resulting in net repayments in sales of approximately $30.8 million. Overall yield on par value of new debt investments during the quarter was 11.8%.

接著請看第 10 頁投影片。第四季新增投資（originations）為 960 萬美元，償還與出售回收為 4,040 萬美元，淨償還與出售回收約 3,080 萬美元。本季新承作債務投資以票面價值計算的整體收益率為 11.8%。

This compares to a 12.9% weighted average annualized yield, excluding income from nonaccruals and collateralized loan obligations as of December 31, 2025. Our investment portfolio at year-end remained highly diversified.

相較之下，截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日，在排除不計息（nonaccrual）與擔保貸款憑證（CLO）收入後，加權平均年化收益率為 12.9%。我們的年末投資組合仍維持高度分散。

We ended the year with the debt investment portfolio when excluding our investments in CLO funds, equities and joint ventures, spread across 74 different portfolio companies in 34 different industries, with an average par balance of $3.5 million per investment.

我們在年底時，若排除我們對CLO基金、股票及合資企業的投資，債務投資組合分散於34個不同產業的74家不同投資組合公司，平均每筆投資的票面本金餘額為350萬美元。

Turning to Slide 11. At the end of 2025, we had 13 investments on nonaccrual status which were attributable to 10 portfolio companies, representing 4.0% and 7.1% of the portfolio at fair value and cost, respectively.

接著看第11頁投影片。截至2025年底，我們有13項投資處於停止計息（nonaccrual）狀態，分別歸屬於10家投資組合公司，按公允價值與成本計算，分別占投資組合的4.0%與7.1%。

This compares to 10 investments attributable to eight portfolio companies a noncall status as of September 30, 2025, representing 3.8% and 6.3% of the portfolio at fair value and cost expense.

相較之下，截至2025年9月30日，有10項投資（歸屬於8家投資組合公司）處於noncall狀態，按公允價值與成本費用計算，分別占投資組合的3.8%與6.3%。

On Slide 12, excluding our nonaccrual investments, we have an aggregate debt investment portfolio of $391.7 million at fair value, which represents a blended price of 92.7% of par value. and is 81.5% comprised of first lien loans at par value.

在第12頁投影片，排除我們的停止計息投資後，我們的債務投資組合合計公允價值為3.917億美元，相當於票面價值的加權平均價格為92.7%，且按票面價值計算其中81.5%由第一順位擔保貸款（first lien loans）構成。

Assuming of our recovery, our December 31, 2025, for values reflect a potential of $30.9 million of incremental net value or a 14.8% increase to NAV.

假設依我們的回收情境，截至2025年12月31日的公允價值反映出潛在3,090萬美元的增量淨價值，或使每股淨值（NAV）提高14.8%。

When applying an illustrative 10% default rate and 70% recovery rate, our debt portfolio would generate an incremental $1.46 per share of NAV or an 8.7% increase as it rotates. I'll now turn the call over to Brandon to further discuss our financial results for the period.

若採用示意性的10%違約率與70%回收率，我們的債務投資組合在輪替過程中將可帶來每股NAV增加1.46美元，或提升8.7%。接下來我把電話交給Brandon，進一步說明本期的財務結果。

Thanks, Patrick. For the quarter ended December 31, 2025, the company generated $17.5 million in investment income. A decrease of $1.4 million as compared to $18.9 million reported for the quarter ended September 30, 2025.

謝謝你，Patrick。截至2025年12月31日止的季度，公司產生1,750萬美元的投資收益。相較於截至2025年9月30日止季度所報告的1,890萬美元，減少了140萬美元。

The decrease in investment income was primarily driven by the distribution from our Great Lakes joint venture coming in $1.3 million lower than the prior quarter and historical levels as a result of a nonrecurring item as well as the impact of two additional investments on nonaccrual and decreases in base rates.

投資收益下降主要是因為我們Great Lakes合資企業的分配金較前一季及歷史水準少了130萬美元（源於一次性項目），以及另外兩項投資轉為停止計息的影響，並且基準利率下滑。

For the year, total investment income was $61.2 million compared to $62.4 million in 2024. For the quarter ended December 31, 2025, total expenses were $10.1 million, which represents a $0.2 million decrease as compared to $10.3 million reported for the prior quarter.

全年而言，總投資收益為6,120萬美元，較2024年的6,240萬美元略降。截至2025年12月31日止季度，總費用為1,010萬美元，較前一季所報告的1,030萬美元減少20萬美元。

The decrease in expenses was primarily driven by lower incentive fees in general and administrative expenses partially offset by higher financing costs associated with 30 days of duplicative interest expense associated with calling the company's April 2026, notes, which amounted to $0.5 million.

費用下降主要來自較低的激勵費與一般及行政費用，但部分被較高的融資成本所抵銷；該融資成本與贖回公司2026年4月到期票據所產生的30天重複利息費用有關，金額為50萬美元。

For the year, total expenses were $36.2 million or a $2.2 million decrease as compared to $38.4 million in 2024. The decrease in expenses compared to the prior year was primarily driven by lower incentive fees.

全年總費用為3,620萬美元，較2024年的3,840萬美元減少220萬美元。與前一年相比費用下降，主要是因為激勵費較低。

Accordingly, our net investment income for the fourth quarter of 2025, was $7.4 million or $0.57 per share, which constitutes $1.5 million decrease or $0.14 per share from $8.9 million or $0.71 per share reported for the prior quarter.

因此，2025年第四季的淨投資收益為740萬美元或每股0.57美元，較前一季所報告的890萬美元或每股0.71美元，減少150萬美元或每股0.14美元。

Core net investment income for the fourth quarter was $4.1 million or $0.32 per share compared to $5.2 million or $0.42 per share in the third quarter of 2025, for the year, net investment income was $25.1 million or $2.28 per share compared to $24 million or $2.59 per share in 2024.

第四季核心淨投資收益為410萬美元或每股0.32美元，低於2025年第三季的520萬美元或每股0.42美元；全年淨投資收益為2,510萬美元或每股2.28美元，相較之下，2024年為2,400萬美元或每股2.59美元。

As of December 31, 2025, our net asset value totaled million, a decrease of $22.1 million or 9.6% from the prior quarter's NAV of $231.3 million. On a per share basis, NAV was $16.68 per share as of December 31, 2025, representing an $0.87 decrease for as compared to the company's prior quarter NAV per share of $17.55.

截至2025年12月31日，我們的淨資產價值合計為百萬美元，較前一季NAV 2.313億美元減少2,210萬美元或9.6%。以每股計算，截至2025年12月31日每股NAV為16.68美元，較公司前一季每股NAV 17.55美元下降0.87美元。

And Notably, the difference between the 9.6% decrease and 5% is the accretive impact of the tender offer and our buyback program. Broadly speaking, the decline in NAV was due to $14.5 million and net realized and change in unrealized losses on the portfolio as well as core net NII not covering the dividend paid during the quarter by approximately $2 million.

值得注意的是，9.6%的降幅與5%之間的差異，來自要約收購與我們回購計畫的增厚（accretive）影響。整體而言，NAV下滑主要是因投資組合出現1,450萬美元的已實現淨損失及未實現損失變動，以及本季核心淨投資收益（core net NII）未能覆蓋所支付股利，差額約200萬美元。

As it relates to the right side of our balance sheet, we ended the year with gross and net leverage ratios of 1.5% and 1.4 times, respectively, which compares to gross and net leverage ratios of 1.4 times and 1.3 times, respectively, for the prior quarter.

就資產負債表右側而言，我們在年底的總槓桿與淨槓桿倍數分別為1.5倍與1.4倍；相較之下，前一季的總槓桿與淨槓桿倍數分別為1.4倍與1.3倍。

Specifically, as of December 31, 2025, we had a total of $312.3 million of borrowings outstanding with at current weighted average contractual interest rate of 6.9%. This compares to $324.6 million in borrowings outstanding as of the prior quarter with a weighted average contractual interest rate of 6.1%.

具體而言，截至2025年12月31日，我們的借款餘額合計為3.123億美元，加權平均合約利率為6.9%。相較之下，截至前一季借款餘額為3.246億美元，加權平均合約利率為6.1%。

The company finished the year with $124.7 million of available borrowing capacity under the senior secured revolving credit facilities, which are subject to borrowing base restrictions.

公司在年底於高級擔保循環信用融資額度項下，尚有1.247億美元的可用借款額度，但受借款基礎（borrowing base）限制。

Finally, I'm pleased to share that during the quarter, the company refinanced its $108 million of unsecured notes maturing in April 2026, by issuing a $75 million of 7.75% notes due October 2030, and $35 million of 7.5% notes due October 28.

最後，我很高興分享，公司在本季將於2026年4月到期的1.08億美元無擔保票據進行再融資：發行7,500萬美元、票面利率7.75%、2030年10月到期的票據，以及3,500萬美元、票面利率7.5%、10月28日到期的票據。

These actions reduced near-term refinancing risk and better ladder the company's debt capital structure by staggering the company's maturities, which improves the company's balance sheet. With that, I will turn the call back over to Ted.

這些措施降低了短期再融資風險，並透過錯開到期日，使公司的債務資本結構期限梯（ladder）更為合理，從而改善公司的資產負債表。接下來我把電話交回給Ted。

Thank you, Brandon. Ahead of questions, I'd like to reemphasize our commitment to our shareholders. Our focus remains on disciplined capital allocation, maintaining a high-quality portfolio and delivering attractive risk-adjusted returns.

謝謝你，Brandon。在進入提問之前，我想再次強調我們對股東的承諾。我們仍將專注於嚴謹的資本配置、維持高品質投資組合，並提供具吸引力的風險調整後報酬。

The large or diversified platform and a strengthened balance sheet, we believe we are well positioned to drive continued earnings growth and value creation in the quarters and.

憑藉更大且多元化的平台以及更強健的資產負債表，我們相信自己已做好充分準備，在接下來的季度推動持續的獲利成長與價值創造，並且。

Thank you once again to all our shareholders, employees and partners for ongoing support. This concludes our prepared remarks, and I'll turn the call over for questions. Thank you.

再次感謝所有股東、員工與合作夥伴持續的支持。以上為我們的預備發言，接下來我把電話交給會議進行提問。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

(接線員指示)

Erik Zwick, Lucent Capital Markets.

Erik Zwick，Lucent Capital Markets。

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Ted, in your prepared comments, you mentioned the actions that you took in 2025 reflect the long-term vision as you position the company for its next phase of growth.

謝謝。各位早安。Ted，在你的預備發言中，你提到你們在2025年採取的行動反映了長期願景，因為你們正為公司下一階段的成長做定位。

I'm curious just kind of from your perspective, if you think about the next year or what do you think the mix of growth looks like from an organic and acquisition mix.

我想從你的角度了解一下，如果你思考明年，你認為成長的組合在內生成長與併購之間會是什麼樣的配置？

And I guess I'm kind of curious on that latter potential source of growth acquisitions. What the pipeline looks like in terms of opportunities? And I guess if I add another piece in there, are there any other initiatives for growth that you're considering at this point as well?

另外我也想就後者這個潛在的成長來源——併購——再追問一下。就機會而言，目前的案源（pipeline）看起來如何？如果我再加問一點，現階段你們是否也在考慮其他成長措施？

Yeah, it's a great question. So I don't see us pursuing organic growth. I mean if anything, given where our stock trades, it makes sense for us to continue to buy back stock. So the tender plus share buybacks, obviously, were a pretty nice tailwind for us or not per share.

是的，這是個很好的問題。所以我不認為我們會追求內生成長。我的意思是，若有的話，考量到我們股價的交易水準，持續回購股票對我們更有意義。因此，要約收購加上股票回購，顯然對我們帶來了相當不錯的順風助力，或不是以每股來看。

In terms of like all this recent choppiness in the market and all the recent headlines, our M&A pipeline is probably bigger than it's ever been and that includes both public entities and listed entities.

就近期市場的各種震盪與新聞標題而言，我們的併購（M&A）案源管線可能比以往任何時候都更大，且涵蓋公開實體與上市實體。

So we expect to be able to grow our platform. We had to get Logan Portman done. And that sets us up to do continued M&A.

因此我們預期能夠擴大我們的平台。我們必須把 Logan Portman 這筆交易完成。而這也讓我們具備持續進行併購的基礎。

So as you know, we've kind of rolled up a number of BDCs over the last couple of years, and it's a key part to our strategy to basically continue to do that, optimize the portfolios and continue to buy back stock.

所以如你所知，過去幾年我們已經整併了多家 BDC，這是我們策略中的關鍵一環：基本上就是持續這麼做、優化投資組合，並持續回購股票。

That's helpful. And then so I guess, thinking about the pipeline, organic growth and maybe the size of the portfolio? It sounds like you still consider that the buyback of pretty attractive use of capital at this point. Is that the right read on your comments there?

這很有幫助。那我想，從管線、內生成長，或許還有投資組合規模的角度來看？聽起來你們仍然認為回購在目前是相當有吸引力的資本運用方式。我這樣解讀你剛才的評論對嗎？

Yeah, I mean you can see our originations like our Payments and sales are way higher than originations. And the reason for that is it's more accretive for us to basically take the liquidation and buy back stock, that's what we'll be doing.

對，我的意思是你可以看到，我們的資產回收（payments）與出售金額遠高於新增投放（originations）。原因在於，對我們而言，把回收的資金拿來回購股票在增厚效益上更好，所以我們會這麼做。

On a go-forward basis, we're very cautious in terms of new deployment. really various where we can deploy capital at very wide spreads.

展望未來，我們在新增投放方面非常謹慎，真的只會在能以非常寬的利差投放資本的情況下才會出手。

And again, those opportunities is few and far between. So we think there's a little bit of a disconnect between actual risk and the way risk is being priced and so we are being pretty judicious on deploying new capital.

而且這類機會依然相當稀少。所以我們認為實際風險與風險定價之間存在一些落差，因此在部署新資本方面我們會相當審慎。

That's great color. Thanks, and last one maybe for Brandon. Just looking at the dividend income, that you recognized in the quarter. I think it was around $200,000 or so many, 100 money. And that was quite a bit below the prior kind of four-quarter average closer to like $1 million.

這些說明很有幫助。謝謝，最後一題可能問 Brandon。就你們本季認列的股利收入來看，我記得大概是 20 萬美元左右，或是 10 萬多美元。這比之前四季平均接近 100 萬美元低了不少。

So just curious if there's something noteworthy that, that changed in the fourth quarter and what the run rate of dividend income might look like going forward?

想請教第四季是否有什麼值得注意的變化？以及往後股利收入的常態水準（run rate）可能會是什麼樣子？

Yeah, that's, -- so that's right, Eric. That's -- the decrease was driven by the much lower rate Lakes our great Lakes joint ventures distribution this quarter. There was a nonrecurring item associated with it's an evergreen product. And every three years, it rolls into a new series that occurred in the prior quarter.

是的，沒錯，Eric。下降主要是因為本季 Great Lakes 合資企業的配息率低很多。其中有一個與常青（evergreen）產品相關的一次性項目。而該產品每三年會轉入新的系列，這件事發生在上一季。

And that impacted the -- great Lakes distribution this quarter. It's very much a nonrecurring item. The product is sensitive to rates. So where it was previously earning and distributing is probably is higher than what we're modeling going forward, but it still should generate, call it, low teens return on near-term basis going forward.

這影響了本季的 Great Lakes 配息。這非常明顯是一次性項目。該產品對利率敏感。因此先前的收益與配息水準可能高於我們對未來的模型假設，但短期往前看仍應可產生約低十幾%的報酬。

And I'd also make the distinction, the nonrecurring item was just the difference between rock versus income. So it wasn't -- it wasn't necessarily a cash distribution question was sort of how we kind of had to or we're supposed to recognize the cash in terms of ROC versus income. That's right.

我也想補充區分一下：這個一次性項目只是資本返還（ROC）與收入之間的認列差異。所以不完全是現金配息多寡的問題，而是我們在 ROC 與收入之間，必須或應該如何認列現金的問題。沒錯。

Right.

了解。

Great, thank you for taking my questions this morning, guys.

感謝各位今天早上回答我的問題。

Christopher Nolan, Laderman.

Christopher Nolan，Laderman。

Hey guys, the declining dividend, is that should we use that as a proxy for the earnings run rate going forward in the second half of the year?

各位好，股利下滑這件事，我們是否應該把它當作今年下半年獲利常態水準的代理指標？

No, that was the nonrecurring item that Erik had just asked about, Chris. So next quarter, we would expect that to return to more normalized historical levels.

不，那是 Eric 剛剛問到的一次性項目，Chris。所以下一季我們預期會回到較為正常的歷史水準。

Okay, and then the driver on the realized loss?

好的，那已實現損失的主要原因是什麼？

The largest driver on the realized was a portfolio company called CP Flex. Patrick, do you want to give some color .

已實現損失最大的驅動因素是一家名為 CP Flex 的投資組合公司。Patrick，你要不要補充一些說明。

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, Chris. So we -- it was a company that was going through a sale process. The sale prices will be going on some time we had a bid that fully that was fully covering par plus accrued interest, and we're working towards the end and to be entirely honest, in the last like couple of weeks of the transaction. They were assuming junior lenders in the capital structure that basically created a massive amount of holdup value.

好的，老實說，Chris。我們——那是一家正在進行出售流程的公司。出售流程進行了一段時間，我們原本有一個出價可完全覆蓋票面金額加上應計利息，我們也一路推進到接近尾聲；但坦白說，在交易最後幾週，資本結構中的次順位放款人基本上創造了大量的「卡關／勒索」價值（holdup value）。

And we were kind of the lenders were forced into this discussion of whether we should like file a company for a prepack and then -- and get these guys out and move on and again, we were a small part of the syndication, but there is just an overall view that between the costs associated with the prepack and the risk that the buyer would move away from us that lenders were kind of willing to accept, again, would have amounted to a good amount of hold up value at the end of the day and so the difference effectively between what we had it on the books at and what we ended up realizing was sort of that last little bit of a couple of folks holding a hostage.

於是放款人被迫討論：是否要讓公司走預先包裝破產（prepack）程序，然後——把這些人清掉再往前走。再說一次，我們在聯貸中只是小部分，但整體觀點是：考量 prepack 的成本，以及買方可能因此退出的風險，放款人傾向接受——最終等於讓出相當程度的卡關價值。因此，我們帳上價值與最終實現金額之間的差異，基本上就是最後那一小段被少數人「挾持」所造成的。

Got it. And then I guess for unrealized appreciation, were there any particularly big drivers there?

了解。那未實現增值方面，有沒有特別大的驅動因素？

Unrealized depreciation.

未實現減值。

Yes please.

對，麻煩。

Yeah, sorry, thank appreciation. I just want to sure I ask one question. The biggest one is called HTC Hostway, again, kind of a similar story, but they are working through LOIs and they have two different business units and selling two different business units that ultimately completed the sale of one of the business units, but the other one, effectively the buyer came back and retreat us like $0.50 discount or something like that, which obviously didn't make any sense of were going to take.

好的，抱歉，我是說增值。我只是想確認我問對問題。最大的項目叫 HTC Hostway，同樣有點類似的故事：他們在推進意向書（LOI），有兩個不同事業單位，並打算分別出售。最終完成了其中一個事業單位的出售，但另一個部分，買方回頭要求我們大概打個 0.50 美元的折扣之類的，顯然我們不可能接受。

We sort of said no, they came back at a higher valuation, but still not something that the company comfortable with, and there's a large lender that's leading the process there.

我們就說不，對方後來以較高估值回來，但仍不是公司能接受的水準；而那邊有一家大型放款人正在主導整個流程。

So ultimately, the conclusion was to sell the first business where we kind of continue where we got a reasonable cash offer and pay down debt and then we'll kind of take that second business back to market at some point this year would be my guess.

所以最後的結論是：先賣掉第一個事業，我們拿到合理的現金出價並用來償還債務；然後我猜今年某個時間點會把第二個事業再拿回市場重新出售。

But for valuation purposes, we're using that sort of like lower retreaded valuation for purpose of that. So that is kind of the driver of the unrealized depreciation.

但就估值目的而言，我們採用的是那個較低、被買方「重談後」的估值來作為估值依據。所以這就是未實現減值的主要驅動因素。

And that's the biggest needle mover there.

而這是其中影響最大的項目。

Got it. And then I guess, strategically, on your comments in terms of growth drivers, acquisitions, are there a lot of potential BDC sellers out there? And is the pricing for these things going down? I mean what sort of color can you provide?

了解。那從策略面來看，關於你提到的成長動能、收購方面，市場上有很多潛在的 BDC 賣方嗎？而這類交易的價格是否正在下滑？你能提供什麼樣的觀察？

I would say that there's a lot of permanent capital as for sale. I think the choppiness is going to just exasperate it. I mean scale matters and I think there's a lot of subscale vehicles that are in a hard time with originations costs and kind of growth in fundraising.

我會說，有很多永久資本（permanent capital）正在尋求出售。我認為市場的震盪只會讓情況更嚴重。規模很重要，而且我認為有很多規模不足的載體，在放款承作成本以及募資成長方面正面臨困境。

So as I said, our pipeline is really robust, and it's a mix of both private public entities. So actually, we're pretty excited about the M&A, Marco and we think it's a real way to create value for our shareholders.

所以如我所說，我們的管線非常強勁，且同時包含私募與公開實體。因此我們其實對併購相當興奮，Marco，我們也認為這是為股東創造價值的實質途徑。

Interesting. Okay, great, thanks guys.

有意思。好的，很棒，謝謝各位。

[Angelo Guarino], Private Investor.

[Angelo Guarino]，私人投資人。

Good morning. Thanks for taking my call. So this is going to be a little bit of a tough talk. Big picture, a tough talk. I'm really trying to understand where you guys are focused on? So here's a couple of data points. June 30, 2019, a couple of quarters after you took take out NAV per share, split adjusted, $37 a share.

早安。感謝接聽我的來電。所以這會是一段有點艱難的對話。從大方向來看，是一段艱難的對話。我真的想了解你們目前的重點放在哪裡？我這裡有幾個數據點。2019年6月30日，在你們剔除每股NAV（經拆股調整）後的幾個季度，每股是37美元。

Over that time, you've distributed $16 per share split adjusted to shareholders and now we're sitting $20 a share NAV below that, and I've been a big supporter of you.

在那段期間，你們已向股東配發了每股16美元（經拆股調整），而現在我們的每股NAV比當時低了20美元；而我一直是你們的強力支持者。

I've been a big supporter of mid-band and a big supporter of the strategy and growing. But you keep using terms like risk-adjusted returns, shareholder value, continued growth and shareholder value.

我一直很支持中端市場（mid-band），也很支持這個策略與成長。但你們一直使用像是風險調整後報酬、股東價值、持續成長與股東價值這些詞。

I'm trying to understand why it seems to me that Quarter after quarter, your Harrison on fire about drip of the base value of our investment which is NAV, you have to agree that BDCs are rare that are going to trade at huge multiples to NAV.

我想了解的是，為什麼在我看來一季又一季，你們對我們投資的基礎價值（也就是NAV）被一點一滴侵蝕這件事似乎沒有那麼在意；你們也必須同意，很少有BDC會以遠高於NAV的巨大倍數交易。

And why aren't I seeing or hearing you talk about being far and far about what's been happening to NAV ever since you took kick-out.

而且為什麼我沒有看到或聽到你們更直接、更坦率地談論自從你們把它剔除之後，NAV一直以來發生了什麼事？

Okay, I'll answer that question. I mean I don't necessarily subscribe everything you said but the reality is I mean, we probably bought back more stock than any BDC as a percentage of our business.

好，我來回答這個問題。我的意思是，我不一定同意你說的每一點，但事實是，我們回購的股票，按我們業務規模的比例來看，可能比任何一家BDC都多。

So when we say things like that, we're trying to be judicious about how we allocate capital. So we've obviously inherited a series of portfolios that were at the relative tail end of winding those down.

所以當我們這樣說時，我們是在努力審慎地配置資本。我們顯然承接了一系列投資組合，而那些組合相對上已接近收尾、正在逐步退出的尾端階段。

So if you look at a lot of the headwinds to our NAV, a lot of it has come from inherited positions. But again, when we took those on, we obviously have been working those out over the last in the start date you used was, but it's still for the last seven years in the meantime, we bought back stock.

所以如果你看我們NAV面臨的許多逆風，其中很大一部分來自承接而來的部位。但同樣地，當我們接手時，我們顯然在你所提到的起始時間點之後的這段期間一直在處理；不過在這七年期間，我們也同時回購了股票。

We've refined capital structure, and we've done a number of actions that we think are shareholder friendly. So we -- I totally hear what you're saying, and the math is the math. But when you say our hair is on fire, I wouldn't necessarily say that. I mean, I would say we have a good command.

我們也優化了資本結構，並採取了多項我們認為對股東友善的行動。所以我們——我完全理解你在說什麼，數學就是數學。但你說我們「火燒眉毛」，我不一定會這麼形容。我的意思是，我會說我們掌握得很好。

I guess what I'm saying is I want your hair to be on fire. I don't hear a lot of discussion about I don't know what increasing shareholder meetings if quarter after quarter, year after year, NAV is just going down, down, down and it doesn't -- I don't hear you addressing it and in a way that is clear of where that turning point is going to be.

我想說的是，我希望你們真的能火燒眉毛。我沒有聽到太多討論——我不知道——例如增加股東會之類的；如果一季又一季、年復一年，NAV就是一直往下、往下、往下，而且——我沒有聽到你們以清楚的方式去處理這件事，說明那個轉折點會在哪裡出現。

We're going to be seeing at least stable NAV at the same time, it doesn't sure, you did the stock buybacks. It was a good deal, but even in the face of stock buybacks, we had a decrease of NAV of $0.80 in just one quarter and that's just not that's not just a one-off.

我們至少什麼時候會看到NAV穩定？同時，當然，你們做了股票回購。那是筆好交易，但即便在回購的情況下，我們單一季度的NAV仍下降了0.80美元，而且那不只是一次性的。

This has been going quarter after quarter after quarter. So I guess what I'm trying to ask -- I'm asking you as someone who is a supporter that has been very supportive all since you bought KCAP because I'm a KCAP, I was a KCAP older.

這是一季接著一季、再一季地發生。所以我想問的是——我以一個支持者的身分在問你們；自從你們收購KCAP以來我就一直非常支持，因為我是KCAP——我以前就是KCAP的持有人。

So I've been here for this whole ride we are not hearing what I think I need to hear that tells me when this is going to when this drift in the stop and this thing is going to turn.

所以我一路走來都在這裡；但我們沒有聽到我認為我需要聽到的內容，能告訴我這個下滑何時會停止、何時會扭轉。

So I mean just saying that I've bought that stock at a good deal, fine. But over 6.5 years, I've lost $20 in NAV and I've gotten $16 in distribution side pay taxes on that distribution.

所以我的意思是，只說你們以很划算的價格回購股票，好的。但在6.5年裡，我的NAV少了20美元，而我拿到16美元的配息，還得為那筆配息繳稅。

So it would have been better off to just liquidate KCAP and give it to me 6.5 years ago and let me put them in treasuries. I'm trying to understand where this is going and when and why I'm not hearing you address in these conference calls, where this turn is going to occur? Is that a better way of putting it?

所以如果6.5年前直接清算KCAP，把錢給我，讓我去買美國公債，反而會更好。我想了解這要往哪裡走、何時會發生，以及為什麼我在這些電話會議中沒有聽到你們談到這個轉折何時會出現？這樣表達會不會更好？

Yeah, I mean listen, I think listen, we're very open-minded to having a broad discussion. And maybe just take this offline, we're happy to sit down with you and take you through it and maybe optimize our communication next quarter.

是的，我的意思是，聽著，我想——聽著——我們非常願意進行更廣泛的討論。也許我們可以私下再談，我們很樂意和你坐下來把整件事帶你走一遍，並且也許在下個季度優化我們的溝通方式。

So why don't we take it offline, and we're happy to listen to you, of course, and listen to all of our shareholders, and happy to have that conversation.

所以我們不如私下再談；我們當然很樂意聽你分享，也會聽取所有股東的意見，並很樂意進行那樣的對話。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Paul Johnson, KBW.

Paul Johnson，KBW。

Yeah, thanks for taking my questions. I just wanted to echo that a little bit. I mean I just want to understand as well, kind of where you really can provide value for shareholders just given where we're at. In my opinion, at least at this point, I don't think that you've necessarily demonstrated that the mergers have been positive for shareholders.

是的，謝謝讓我提問。我也想稍微呼應一下。我的意思是，我也想了解，在目前這個狀況下，你們究竟能在哪些方面為股東創造價值。以我看來，至少到目前為止，我不認為你們已經證明這些併購對股東是正面的。

This happened that any of these has worked out and it's clear that buying some of these assets at NAV has not necessarily been a good deal. So it sounds like that is still the consideration in the plan going forward, but mean hasn't been a great way to increase shareholder NAV for you guys.

看起來這些交易沒有一個真正奏效，而且很明顯，以NAV買進其中一些資產未必是筆好交易。所以聽起來這仍然是未來計畫中的考量，但我的意思是，對你們而言，這並不是提升股東NAV的好方法。

So what other ways can we, I guess, stabilize what's in the portfolio today and you can provide shareholders aside from trying to scale up through mergers going forward.

那麼還有哪些方式可以——我想——在不再透過併購擴張規模的前提下，先把目前投資組合穩定下來，並讓你們能為股東提供價值？

Yeah, I mean we used to provide a lot of disclosure about where we bought the assets versus where we monetize them, and we should put that back in the presentation and walk people through why we think a number of the actions we've taken were the right prudent actions.

是的，我的意思是，我們過去曾提供很多揭露，說明我們買入資產的價格相對於我們變現時的價格；我們應該把那部分放回簡報裡，並帶大家了解為什麼我們認為我們採取的多項行動是正確且審慎的。

So again, we'll provide additional. We've historically disclosed that in a lot of detail. And obviously, we should just continue to do that and this lay out the road map for why we think that makes sense.

所以同樣地，我們會提供更多資訊。我們過去在這方面有非常詳細的揭露。而且顯然，我們應該持續這麼做，並把我們認為合理的路線圖清楚呈現出來。

Okay thank you that's all for me.

好的，謝謝，我這邊就這些。

Thank you. There are no further questions in the queue. I will now turn the call back over to our CEO, Ted Goldthorpe for closing remarks.

謝謝。目前佇列中沒有其他問題。我現在把電話交回給我們的執行長Ted Goldthorpe做結語。

Great. Well, thank you all for attending our call and as always, please feel to reach out to us with any questions, which we're happy to discuss. We look forward to speaking with you again in May when we announce our first quarter 2026, results. Thank you.

很好。感謝各位參加我們的電話會議；一如既往，如有任何問題，請隨時與我們聯繫，我們很樂意討論。我們期待在5月再次與各位通話，屆時我們將公布2026年第一季的業績結果。謝謝。

The meeting has now concluded. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

會議現在結束。感謝各位參與。您現在可以掛線。