BCP Investment Corp (BCIC) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Portman Ridge Finance Corporation's third-quarter 2023 earnings conference call. Our earnings press release was distributed yesterday, November 8, after market close. A copy of the release along with an earnings presentation is available on the company's website at www.portmanridge.com in the Investor Relations section and should be reviewed in conjunction with the company's Form 10-Q filed yesterday with the SEC. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded for replay purposes.

歡迎參加波特曼里奇金融公司 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。我們的收益新聞稿於昨天 11 月 8 日收盤後發布。該新聞稿以及收益報告的副本可在該公司網站 www.portmanridge.com 的投資者關係部分獲取，並應與該公司昨天向 SEC 提交的 10-Q 表格一併進行審查。謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音以供重播之用。

Please note that today's conference call may contain forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance or results and involve a number of risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements as a result of a number of factors, including those described in the company's filings with the SEC. Portman Ridge Finance Corporation assumes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements unless required by law.

請注意，今天的電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述不是對未來業績或結果的保證，並且涉及許多風險和不確定性。由於多種因素（包括該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述的因素），實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。除非法律要求，波特曼里奇金融公司不承擔更新任何此類前瞻性聲明的義務。

Speaking on today's call will be Ted Goldthorpe, Chief Executive Officer, President, and Director of Portman Ridge Finance Corporation; Jason Roos, Chief Financial Officer; and Patrick Schafer, Chief Investment Officer. With that, I would now like to turn the call over to Ted Goldthorpe, Chief Executive Officer of Portman Ridge.

Portman Ridge Finance Corporation 執行長、總裁兼董事 Ted Goldthorpe 將在今天的電話會議上發言。傑森‧魯斯，財務長；派崔克‧謝弗（Patrick Schafer），首席投資長。現在，我想將電話轉給波特曼·里奇執行長特德·戈德索普 (Ted Goldthorpe)。

Good afternoon, and thanks, everyone, for joining our third-quarter 2023 earnings call. I'm joined today by our Chief Financial Officer, Jason Roos and our Chief Investment Officer, Patrick Schafer. I'll provide brief highlights on the company's performance and activities for the quarter. Patrick will provide commentary on our investment portfolio and our markets, and Jason will discuss our operating results and financial condition in greater detail.

下午好，感謝大家參加我們的 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。今天我們的財務長 Jason Roos 和首席投資長 Patrick Schafer 也加入了我的行列。我將簡要介紹公司本季的業績和活動。派崔克將對我們的投資組合和市場發表評論，傑森將更詳細地討論我們的經營業績和財務狀況。

Yesterday, Portman Ridge announced its third-quarter 2023 results, and we are pleased with the solid earnings power of the portfolio despite operating in a somewhat challenging market conditions.

昨天，Portman Ridge 公佈了 2023 年第三季業績，儘管市場條件頗具挑戰性，但我們對該投資組合的穩健獲利能力感到滿意。

Our core investment income was up year over year, increasing by $700,000 as we continue to see the impact that rising rates have on our debt portfolio. Additionally, our net asset value per share increased from $22.54 per share to $22.65 per share. We continued our accretive repurchase program, purchasing over 60,000 shares at an average cost of approximately $1.2 million during the third quarter.

我們的核心投資收入年增，增加了 70 萬美元，因為我們繼續看到利率上升對我們的債務投資組合的影響。此外，我們的每股淨值從每股 22.54 美元增加到每股 22.65 美元。我們繼續實施增量回購計劃，第三季以平均成本約 120 萬美元購買了 60,000 多股股票。

Due to the continued strong performance this past quarter, the Board of Directors was able to approve a dividend of $0.69 per share, a level that represents a 12.2% annualized return on net asset value. On a year-to-date basis, total dividends to be distributed to shareholders amounted to $2.75 per share, representing 7.4% increase as compared to the dividend distributed in 2022.

由於上個季度持續強勁的業績，董事會批准了每股 0.69 美元的股息，這一水平代表著 12.2% 的年化淨資產回報率。年初至今，向股東發放的股利總額為每股2.75美元，較2022年發放的股利增加7.4%。

As we have discussed in previous quarters, M&A deal flow continues to be at depressed levels year to date, but we remain optimistic on the overall outlook.

正如我們在前幾個季度所討論的，今年迄今的併購交易流量繼續處於低迷水平，但我們對整體前景仍然樂觀。

On the sponsor finance front, we are starting to see the early innings of deal activity pick up through a combination of valuation expectations being more reasonable, and acceptance that interest rates will remain elevated for an extended period of time. Significant dry powder on the sidelines and private equity LPs encouraging the return of capital from their fund managers. Sponsors are looking to put less total leverage on their companies, which lowers our detachment point. We'll remain cautious on the ultimate execution rate of these M&A processes. The recipe for increased activity levels appear to be in place.

在贊助商融資方面，我們開始看到早期交易活動有所回升，原因是估值預期更加合理，人們接受利率將在較長一段時間內保持在高位。大量的觀望者和私募股權有限合夥人鼓勵其基金經理人返還資本。贊助商希望減少對其公司的總槓桿，這降低了我們的分離點。我們將對這些併購流程的最終執行率保持謹慎。增加活動水平的方法似乎已經到位。

Both the sponsor and non-sponsor activity. We continue to find the investment opportunities to be very attractive, given the combination of higher benchmark rates, lower leverage on new deals, higher equity contributions from sponsors, and better documentation. Given the continued macro uncertainty around inflation, consumer sentiment and ongoing conflict in Ukraine and Israel, we continue to be very selective on new investment opportunities and have overall found investments in existing portfolio companies more attractive than those new borrowers.

贊助商和非贊助商活動。考慮到較高的基準利率、較低的新交易槓桿、贊助商較高的股權出資以及更好的文件記錄，我們仍然發現投資機會非常有吸引力。鑑於通膨、消費者信心以及烏克蘭和以色列持續衝突的持續宏觀不確定性，我們繼續對新的投資機會非常挑剔，總體上發現現有投資組合公司的投資比新借款人更具吸引力。

Refocusing on Portman Ridge, we continue to believe our stock remains undervalued. Thus, as previously mentioned, we continue to repurchasing shares under our renewed stock purchase program. In the third quarter, we repurchased an incremental 60,559 shares for an aggregate cost of approximately $1.2 million. This follows the trends set throughout 2022 and the first half of 2023 and expect this trend to continue through the final quarter of the year as we are able to do so.

重新關注波特曼里奇，我們仍然認為我們的股票仍然被低估。因此，如前所述，我們將繼續根據新的股票購買計劃回購股票。第三季度，我們回購了 60,559 股增量股票，總成本約為 120 萬美元。這是遵循 2022 年全年和 2023 年上半年設定的趨勢，並預計這種趨勢將持續到今年最後一個季度（如果我們有能力的話）。

Following my remarks, Patrick will also walk through the potential upside cases for our net asset value. But in addition to the market trading discount of our stock price, we continue to believe that there is significant embedded value to NAV, even when overlaying conservative defaults and recovery rates.

在我的發言之後，派崔克也將介紹我們資產淨值的潛在上漲。但除了我們股價的市場交易折扣之外，我們仍然相信資產淨值具有顯著的內含價值，即使覆蓋保守的違約率和回收率。

With that, I will turn over the call to Patrick Schafer, our Chief Investment Officer, for a review of our investment activity.

接下來，我將把電話轉給我們的首席投資長帕特里克·謝弗 (Patrick Schafer)，以審查我們的投資活動。

Thanks, Ted. Turning now to slide 5 of our presentation and the sensitivity of our earnings to interest rates. As of December -- as of September 30, 2023, approximately 90.5% of our debt securities portfolio were either floating rate with the spread to an interest rate index such as LIBOR, SOFR, or prime rate, with 98% of these being linked to SOFR.

謝謝，泰德。現在轉向我們簡報的第 5 張投影片以及我們的收益對利率的敏感度。截至 12 月 - 截至 2023 年 9 月 30 日，我們的債務證券投資組合中約 90.5% 為浮動利率，利差與 LIBOR、SOFR 等利率指數或優惠利率掛鉤，其中 98% 與SOFR。

As you can see from the chart, the underlying benchmark rate of our assets during the quarter lagged to prevailing market rates and still remain below the SOFR rates as of October 30, 2023. But the gap is narrower as it has been since the onset of the Fed rate hike cycle.

從圖表中可以看出，本季我們資產的基礎基準利率落後於現行市場利率，截至2023 年10 月30 日仍低於SOFR 利率。但這一差距自2023 年10 月30 日以來一直在縮小。聯準會升息週期。

For illustrative purposes, if our assets were to reset to either a three-month LIBOR or SOFR rate, respectively, we would expect to generate an incremental $75,000 of quarterly income. Having said that, slide 7 shows a slight decline in NII per share on a run-rate basis, driven largely by slightly lower asset balance as of September 30, 2023, and our simple methodology of not assuming any changes to the portfolio.

出於說明目的，如果我們的資產分別重置為三個月 LIBOR 或 SOFR 利率，我們預計將產生 75,000 美元的增量季度收入。話雖如此，幻燈片7 顯示，按運行率計算，每股NII 略有下降，這主要是由於截至2023 年9 月30 日的資產餘額略有下降，以及我們不假設投資組合發生任何變化的簡單方法所致。

Skipping down to slide 11, originations for the third quarter were slightly higher than the prior quarter, but still remain below repayment levels, resulting in net repayments and sales of approximately $11.6 million. Some of this was driven by late repayments during the quarter, and two transactions expect to close in Q3 that are pushed into early Q4.

跳到投影片 11，第三季的起始金額略高於上一季度，但仍低於還款水平，導致淨還款和銷售額約為 1,160 萬美元。其中部分原因是本季延遲還款，有兩筆交易預計將在第三季完成，並推遲到第四季初。

Our new investments made during the quarter are expected to yield a spread to SOFR of 917 basis points on par value, and the investments were purchased at a cost of approximately [99 spot to 7% of par]. Our investment securities portfolio at the end of the third quarter remained highly diversified with investment spread across 26 different industries and 101 different entities, all while maintaining an average power balance per entity of approximately $3.3 million.

我們在本季進行的新投資預計將產生以票面價值計算的 SOFR 917 個基點的利差，而這些投資的購買成本約為 [99 現貨比票面價值的 7%]。截至第三季末，我們的投資證券投資組合仍然高度多元化，投資分佈在 26 個不同行業和 101 個不同實體，同時每個實體的平均權力平衡保持在約 330 萬美元。

Turning to slide 12. We had one new portfolio company go on non-accrual as of -- as compared to June 30, 2023, and one come off non-accrual due to the completion of a restructuring. In aggregate, securities on non-accrual status remained relatively low at eight investments in the third quarter of 2023 as compared to seven investments on non-accrual status as of June 30, 2023. These eight investments on non-accrual status at the end of the third quarter of 2023 represent 1.6% and 3.6% of the company's investment portfolio at fair value and amortized cost, respectively.

轉向投影片 12。與 2023 年 6 月 30 日相比，我們有一家新的投資組合公司繼續實行非應計利潤，還有一家由於重組的完成而不再計入非應計利潤。整體而言，截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日，非應計狀態的證券有 8 項投資處於非應計狀態，而截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日，非應計狀態的證券有 7 項。2023 年第 2023 年第三季度，以公允價值及攤餘成本計算，分別占公司投資組合的1.6%及3.6%。

On slide 13, excluding our non-accrual investments, we have an aggregate debt securities fair value of $427 million, which represents a blended price of 93.4% of par value and 88% comprised of first lien loans at par value. Assuming a power recovery, our September 30, 2023 fair values reflect a potential of $28 million of incremental net value, 13.1% increase or $2.94 per share, excluding any recovery on the non-accrual investments.

在投影片13 中，不包括我們的非應計投資，我們的債務證券公允價值總額為4.27 億美元，這代表混合價格為票面價值的93.4% 和按票面價值計算的第一留置權貸款的88 %。假設電力恢復，我們 2023 年 9 月 30 日的公允價值反映了 2,800 萬美元增量淨值的潛力，成長 13.1% 或每股 2.94 美元，不包括非應計投資的任何恢復。

For illustrative purposes, if you would assume a 10% default rate and a 70% recovery rate on this debt portfolio, there would still be an incremental $1.60 per share of net value or 7.1% increase over time as the portfolio matures and is repaid. Again, this is excluding any recovery on the non-accrual investments. This indicative default rate is above anything the market is expecting or has experienced historically.

出於說明目的，如果您假設該債務投資組合的違約率為10%，回收率為70%，那麼隨著投資組合的成熟和償還，每股淨值仍會增加1.60 美元，即隨著時間的推移增加7.1%。同樣，這不包括非應計投資的任何回收。這項指示性違約率高於市場預期或歷史經驗的任何水準。

Finally, turning to slide 14, if you aggregate the three portfolios acquired over the last three years, we have purchased a combined $435 million of investments, have realized over 78% of these positions at a combined realized and unrealized mark of 103% of fair value at the time of closing the respective mergers. This is an indication of our ability to effectively realize the value of legacy portfolios acquired while rotating into BC Partners' sourced assets. More importantly, we're able to achieve those results despite the global pandemic in 2020 and most of 2021 and a weak market for almost all asset classes in 2022 and the first half of 2023.

最後，轉向投影片14，如果將過去三年中收購的三個投資組合進行匯總，我們已購買了總計4.35 億美元的投資，已實現了其中超過78% 的頭寸，已實現和未實現的總金額為公允價值的103%。完成相應合併時的價值。這顯示我們有能力有效實現所收購的遺留投資組合的價值，同時轉化為 BC Partners 的來源資產。更重要的是，儘管 2020 年和 2021 年大部分時間全球大流行，並且 2022 年和 2023 年上半年幾乎所有資產類別市場疲軟，但我們仍然能夠實現這些成果。

I'll now turn the call over to Jason to further discuss our financial results for the period.

我現在將把電話轉給傑森，進一步討論我們這段期間的財務表現。

Thanks, Patrick. As both Ted and Patrick previously mentioned, despite operating under a challenging economic environment, our results for the third quarter of 2023 reflect strong financial performance.

謝謝，派崔克。正如 Ted 和 Patrick 之前提到的，儘管在充滿挑戰的經濟環境下運營，我們 2023 年第三季的業績反映了強勁的財務業績。

Our total investment income decreased slightly by $400,000 to $18.6 million in the third quarter of 2023, in comparison to $19 million in the third quarter of 2022. This reported total investment income represents a $1 million decrease from the $19.6 million of reported total investment income in the second quarter of 2023. The quarter-over-quarter decrease was largely due to reduced fee income and dividend income compared to the second quarter of 2023.

2023 年第三季度，我們的總投資收入小幅下降40 萬美元，至1,860 萬美元，而2022 年第三季為1,900 萬美元。本報告的總投資收入比2022 年第三季報告的總投資收入1,960 萬美元減少了100 萬美元。2023年第二季。環比下降主要是由於與2023年第二季相比，費用收入和股息收入減少。

Excluding the impact of purchase price accounting, our core investment income for the third quarter of 2023 was $18.3 million, an increase of $700,000 as compared to $17.6 million for the third quarter of 2022, a decrease of $900,000 as compared to $19.2 million for the second quarter of 2023. Our net investment income for the third quarter of 2023 was $7.2 million or $0.75 per share, a decrease of $1.2 million as compared to $8.4 million or $0.87 per share for the third quarter of 2022, and a decrease of 700,000 as compared to $7.9 million or $0.83 per share for the second quarter of 2023. The quarter-over-quarter decrease was largely due to the aforementioned decreases seen at fee and dividend income.

剔除購買價格會計的影響，我們2023年第三季的核心投資收益為1830萬美元，比2022年第三季的1760萬美元增加70萬美元，比第二季的1920萬美元減少90萬美元我們2023年第三季的淨投資收益為720萬美元，即每股0.75美元，比2022年第三季的840萬美元，即每股0.87美元減少了120萬美元，比2022年第三季減少了70萬美元2023 年第二季將增至 790 萬美元，即每股 0.83 美元。季減主要是由於上述費用和股息收入下降。

As of September 30, 2023 and June 30, 2023, the weighted average contractual interest rate on our interest earning debt securities was approximately 12.3% and 12.1%, respectively. We continue to believe the portfolio remains well positioned to generate incremental revenue in future quarters due to the current rate environment.

截至2023年9月30日及2023年6月30日，生息債務證券的加權平均合約利率分別約為12.3%及12.1%。我們仍然相信，由於當前的利率環境，該投資組合仍然能夠在未來幾季產生增量收入。

Total expenses decreased quarter over quarter from $11.7 million for the second quarter of 2023 to $11.4 million in the third quarter of 2023. This decrease was due to reduced expenses, and predominantly, all expense categories, a result of our efforts to reduce overall expenses. Our net asset value for the third quarter of 2023 was $214.8 million or $22.65 per share as compared to $215 million or $22.54 per share in the second quarter of 2023.

總費用環比下降，從2023 年第二季的1,170 萬美元下降到2023 年第三季的1,140 萬美元。這一下降是由於費用減少，主要是所有費用類別的減少，這是我們努力減少總體費用的結果。 2023 年第三季我們的淨資產值為 2.148 億美元，即每股 22.65 美元，而 2023 年第二季的淨資產值為 2.15 億美元，即每股 22.54 美元。

Turning to the liability side of the balance sheet. As of September 30, 2023, we had a total of $321.5 million par value of borrowings outstanding at a current weighted average interest rate of 6.9%. This balance was comprised of $74 million in borrowings under our revolving credit facility, $108 million of 4.78% (sic - see press release, "4.875%") Notes due 2026 and $139.5 million in Secured Notes due 2029. The quarter-over-quarter decrease of $12.2 million was primarily driven by an $8.2 million repayment on the Secured Notes due 2029 and a net $4 million repayment on the revolving credit facility.

轉向資產負債表的負債方。截至 2023 年 9 月 30 日，我們的未償還借款面額總額為 3.215 億美元，目前加權平均利率為 6.9%。餘額包括我們循環信貸額度下的 7,400 萬美元借款、1.08 億美元的 4.78%（原文如此 - 請參閱新聞稿，「4.875%」）2026 年到期票據和 1.395 億美元 2029 年到期有擔保票據。減少1,220 萬美元主要是由於2029 年到期的擔保票據償還820 萬美元以及循環信貸額度淨償還400 萬美元。

As of the end of the quarter, we had $41 million of available borrowing capacity under the senior secured revolving credit facility and no remaining borrowing capacity under the 2018-2 Revolving Credit Facility as the reinvestment period ended shortly after our draw on November 20, 2022. As of September 30, 2023, our debt to equity ratio was 1.5 times on a gross basis and 1.34 times on a net basis. From a regulatory perspective, our asset coverage ratio at quarter end was 166%.

截至本季末，我們在優先擔保循環信貸安排下擁有4,100 萬美元的可用借款能力，且在2018-2 循環信貸安排下沒有剩餘借款能力，因為再投資期在2022 年11 月20 日提款後不久就結束了截至2023年9月30日，我們的負債股本比率以總額計算為1.5倍，以淨值計算為1.34倍。從監管角度來看，季末我們的資產覆蓋率為166%。

Finally, and as announced, November 8, 2023, a quarterly distribution of $0.69 per share was approved by the Board and declared payable on November 30, 2023, to stockholders of record at the close of business on November 20, 2023. This is a $0.02 per share distribution increase as compared to the fourth quarter of 2022. Including the distribution subsequent to the announcement of full year 2022 earnings results, total stockholder distributions for 2023 amounts to $2.75 per share.

最後，正如 2023 年 11 月 8 日宣布的那樣，董事會批准了每股 0.69 美元的季度分配，並宣佈於 2023 年 11 月 30 日向 2023 年 11 月 20 日收盤時登記在冊的股東支付。與2022 年第四季相比，每股分配增加0.02 美元。包括2022 年全年獲利結果公佈後的分配，2023 年股東分配總額為每股2.75 美元。

With that, I will turn the call back over to Ted.

這樣，我會將電話轉回特德。

Thank you, Jason. Ahead of questions, I'd like to re-emphasize that we believe we are well positioned to take advantage of the current market environment as we have shown throughout the year so far. Through our prudent investment strategy, we believe we'll be able to deliver strong returns to our shareholders in the final quarter of the year and into 2024.

謝謝你，傑森。在提問之前，我想再次強調，我們相信我們已做好充分利用當前市場環境的準備，正如我們全年所表現的那樣。透過我們審慎的投資策略，我們相信我們將能夠在今年最後一個季度和 2024 年為股東帶來豐厚的回報。

Thank you once again to all of our shareholders for ongoing support. This concludes our prepared remarks, and I will turn the call over for any questions.

再次感謝所有股東一直以來的支持。我們準備好的演講到此結束，如果有任何問題，我將轉交電話。

(Operator Instructions) Paul Johnson, KBW.

（操作員說明）Paul Johnson，KBW。

Yeah. Good evening, guys. Thanks for taking my question.

是的。晚上好，夥計們。感謝您提出我的問題。

The first is just kind of lead -- maybe kind of giving your overall thoughts on leverage -- post gross leverage in the (inaudible) and where it is today going? Into next year, there's focus on reducing that, or rotating out of certain investments? They are just basically just redeploying and coming in terms of the name of the (inaudible)

第一個只是某種領先——也許是給出你對槓桿的整體想法——發布（聽不清楚）的總槓桿率以及它今天的方向？進入明年，重點是減少投資，還是退出某些投資？他們基本上只是重新部署並以（聽不清楚）的名稱出現

Yeah. It's a great question. I think the answer is, again, we have a stated target leverage range, which we're close to the high end of. And so again, I don't feel like our leverage -- of anything our leverage will go down. I don't feel like our leverage will go up going into next year.

是的。這是一個很好的問題。我認為答案是，我們有一個明確的目標槓桿範圍，我們已經接近該範圍的高端。再說一次，我不認為我們的槓桿率——任何事情我們的槓桿率都會下降。我不認為我們的槓桿率會在明年上升。

I mean, there's a lot of uncertainty going to next year. We're earning very strong ROEs, and we don't need leverage to earn our dividends nor our earnings. So if you recall, we took up leverage for a temporary period of time, which is now coming down because we had a use-it-or-lose-it facility that was very accretive for shareholders. But yeah, we expect leverage to come down or at least stay within the range that we've outlined to people.

我的意思是，明年有很多不確定性。我們的股本回報率非常高，而且我們不需要槓桿來賺取股息或收益。因此，如果你還記得的話，我們暫時使用了槓桿，現在槓桿率正在下降，因為我們有一個「用進廢退」的機制，這對股東來說非常有利。但是，是的，我們預期槓桿率會下降，或至少保持在我們向人們概述的範圍內。

Yeah, that's helpful. And is that going to -- I guess, you impede your ability to continue buying back shares. How do you see that kind of -- (inaudible) your thoughts around share repurchases?

是的，這很有幫助。我想，這會妨礙你繼續回購股票的能力嗎？您如何看待（聽不清楚）您對股票回購的想法？

I mean, I think -- listen, we've done it for a bunch of years in a row, like we're very committed to buying back stock. And again, given where ROEs are and given where new investment rates are, it's also very accretive for us to invest. But given where our stock trades and given where our yield is at market, we just think it makes a lot of sense for us to buy back stock.

我的意思是，我認為 - 聽著，我們已經連續多年這樣做了，就像我們非常致力於回購股票一樣。再說一次，考慮到股本回報率和新的投資率，這對我們的投資來說也是非常有利的。但考慮到我們的股票交易情況以及我們的市場收益率，我們認為回購股票很有意義。

Okay. Thanks for that.

好的。感謝那。

And then my other question is just on interest income. If I'm calculating it right, approximately about 16% or so of total interest income was PIK income this quarter. I just want to make sure if I'm looking at that correctly. And then also, how does that compare, I guess, historically to the portfolio?

我的另一個問題是關於利息收入。如果我計算正確的話，本季 PIK 收入約佔總利息收入的 16% 左右。我只是想確定我的看法是否正確。然後，我想，這與歷史上的投資組合相比如何？

Yeah. I would say we did have more PIK income this quarter relative to prior quarters. That's a function of some of our -- we look at interest income and PIK income as one in the same as a conglomerate source of income.

是的。我想說，相對於前幾季，我們本季的 PIK 收入確實有所增加。這是我們的一些功能——我們將利息收入和 PIK 收入視為與集團收入來源相同的一個。

But you're right. This quarter, we had a larger amount of our investment income being made up of PIK income, which is a function of some of the assets that were previously cash-paying, are now picking due to some of the optionality that they have in the agreements themselves.

但你是對的。本季度，我們的投資收入中有很大一部分由 PIK 收入組成，這是以前現金支付的一些資產的函數，現在由於協議中的一些選擇性而被選擇自己。

Yeah. There was also one specific name that moved from cash to PIK this quarter -- in Q3, but then was exited in where we sit today on the phone in Q4. So all else equal, we expect that to go down a little bit next quarter just because of the exit of one of the assets that had a little bit of PIK for one particular quarter.

是的。還有一個特定名稱在本季第三季從現金轉為 PIK，但隨後在第四季度退出。因此，在其他條件相同的情況下，我們預計下個季度會略有下降，因為其中一項在某個特定季度擁有少量 PIK 的資產退出了。

Yeah. That's very helpful. That's all for me. Thanks.

是的。這非常有幫助。這就是我的全部。謝謝。

Christopher Nolan, Ladenburg Thalmann.

克里斯多福諾蘭，拉登堡塔爾曼。

Hi, guys. For your portfolio companies, are you seeing sponsors step up and put in more equity, or not really?

嗨，大家好。對於您的投資組合公司，您是否看到贊助商增加投入並投入更多股權，或者是否真的如此？

Well, I go first, and then Patrick can respond. I think we've seen a -- this is just my own opinion. Like I think you're seeing a bifurcation in the market between size of sponsor. Meaning, I think we're seeing pretty constructive behavior on behalf of middle-market sponsors, and we're seeing more economic decision-making on behalf of larger sponsors.

好吧，我先走，然後帕特里克可以回應。我想我們已經看到了——這只是我自己的觀點。就像我認為你看到贊助商規模之間的市場分歧。意思是，我認為我們看到中型市場贊助商的相當有建設性的行為，並且我們看到大型贊助商的更多經濟決策。

And again, that more affects the larger players in the BC space and the syndicated markets. But yeah, we're in constant dialogue with our sponsor counterparts. So I think like they've been very, very constructive so far.

同樣，這對 BC 領域和聯合市場的較大參與者影響更大。但是，是的，我們正在與贊助商同行不斷對話。所以我認為到目前為止他們非常非常有建設性。

Yeah. I don't have much to add, Ted. Ted hit the nail there.

是的。我沒什麼要補充的，泰德。特德擊中了要害。

The only thing -- in some instances, sponsors are looking at some of amend and extend for a multi-year period. The thing that ourselves was just -- lenders in the market are focused on as interest coverage at this point as opposed to leverage.

唯一的事情是——在某些情況下，贊助商正在考慮一些修改並延長多年期。我們自己的情況是──市場上的貸款人目前關注的是利息覆蓋率，而不是槓桿。

And so there's oftentimes where there needs to be a little bit of incremental equity coming into the structure to bring you down to a coverage perspective, if that makes sense. So those are obviously all kind of one-off conversations. But as Ted said, using those discussions, the bifurcation is really on the size of sponsor and what they're comfortable doing.

因此，如果有意義的話，通常需要在結構中添加一點增量股權，以使您能夠覆蓋範圍。所以這些顯然都是一次性的談話。但正如特德所說，透過這些討論，分歧實際上取決於贊助商的規模以及他們願意做什麼。

And I guess the follow-up question would be, what EBITDA multiples are you seeing given the change in rates? I mean, obviously (technical difficulty)

我想接下來的問題是，考慮到利率的變化，您看到的 EBITDA 倍數是多少？我的意思是，顯然（技術難度）

Yeah. So I think there's a push-pull. But every is on the same page, which is sponsors are back solving for their interest coverage ratios, basically, to Patrick's point. But we're not being asked to max leverage our companies.

是的。所以我認為存在推拉力。但每個人都在同一頁上，那就是贊助商回來解決他們的利息覆蓋率，基本上，按照派崔克的觀點。但我們並沒有被要求最大限度地利用我們的公司。

So we've seen leverage come down anywhere from one to two turns pretty consistently, and that just ties back into interest coverage ratios. There's recent large private equity deal that was done with no debt. And the sponsor is just of the view that they're going be able to finance it later cheaper, which I don't know. I'm not sure if I would make that bet.

因此，我們看到槓桿率持續下降一到兩圈，而這又與利息保障倍數有關。最近有一筆大型私募股權交易是在沒有債務的情況下完成的。贊助商只是認為他們以後能夠以更便宜的價格為其提供資金，我不知道。我不確定我是否會下這個賭注。

But yeah, we're definitely have been asked for lower leverage levels. So it's not intention of like we're being asked for max leverage when we don't want to do it.

但是，是的，我們肯定被要求降低槓桿水平。因此，當我們不想這樣做時，我們就被要求提供最大槓桿，這並不是有意的。

Yeah. That's all for me. Thank you.

是的。這就是我的全部。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Steven Martin, Slater.

（操作員說明）Steven Martin，Slater。

Hey, guys.

大家好。

Hey, Steve.

嘿，史蒂夫。

Couple of questions. You said that on the non-accruals that one went on and one went off, but the total went from seven to eight. Am I missing something?

有幾個問題。您說非應計項目有一項繼續，一項取消，但總數從七項增加到八項。我錯過了什麼嗎？

No. Technically, one -- the new non-accrual has just two different securities as a revolver and a term loan, and they're pair with each other. So we have both them on non-accrual. It's one borrower, but two different security. So that table is security account and not borrower account.

不。從技術上講，一——新的非應計利息只有兩種不同的證券，即循環貸款和定期貸款，而且它們是相互配對的。所以我們把它們都設為非應計利息。這是一個借款人，但有兩種不同的證券。所以該表是安全帳戶而不是藉款人帳戶。

All right. Would you care to elaborate on what that one security was? I know what it is, but what the story is behind it?

好的。您願意詳細說明一下該證券是什麼嗎？我知道它是什麼，但它背後的故事是什麼？

The security that came back or the security that went on?

返回的安全還是繼續的安全？

The one that came back we're less concerned with than one went on.

我們對回來的人比對繼續走的人更關心。

(inaudible) the legal entity name is HDC. Post way, there's a term loan and revolver. HDC/HW Intermediate Holdings, LLC is the legal name. It's a company that we've had marked below par for a period of time.

（聽不清楚）法人實體名稱是 HDC。郵寄方式，有定期貸款和左輪手槍。 HDC/HW Intermediate Holdings, LLC 是法定名稱。這家公司在一段時間內我們的股價一直低於標準水準。

They have one business that has been struggling and one side of the house that has been growing pretty well. But the side of the house is growing a little bit smaller than the side of the house that is declining.

他們的一項業務一直在苦苦掙扎，而另一項業務則發展得相當不錯。但房子的一側正在增長，而房子的一側正在下降。

We've been working with the other lenders on a potential restructuring pathway for the company and in light of what we hope is a relatively short pathway to a restructuring. We felt the [prudent] to put it on non-accrual. In the quarter, it was the hope that it's a relatively short-lived candidate within there.

我們一直在與其他貸款人合作，為該公司尋找潛在的重組途徑，並希望重組的途徑相對較短。我們認為將其設為非應計利息是[謹慎的]做法。在本季度，人們希望它是一個相對短暫的候選人。

Is it a sponsor-backed deal?

這是贊助商支持的交易嗎？

It was a sponsor-backed deal. The sponsor is not very involved at this stage.

這是一筆得到贊助商支持的交易。贊助商現階段參與度並不高。

Got it. And was it a BC source deal, or was it one you inherited?

知道了。這是 BC 來源的交易，還是您繼承的交易？

It was not . It was inherited from the Garrison portfolio.

不是 。它繼承自駐軍的職務。

Okay. Can you talk about on quarter-to-date events vis-à-vis repayments and sales, et cetera, and/or share repurchase?

好的。您能談談與還款和銷售等和/或股票回購有關的季度至今的事件嗎？

I can give you some high-level numbers. On the purchases, we had about 18 -- a little over $18 million of purchases, offset by approximately $30 million of sales and paydowns. If you're doing the role, then you have about $1.7 million of unrealized gain, offset by a realized loss of about [$1.6 million]. And then with accretion and some others, you get the delta in the investment portfolio.

我可以給你一些高級數字。在採購方面，我們有大約 18 項——略高於 1800 萬美元的採購，被大約 3000 萬美元的銷售和付款所抵消。如果您擔任該角色，那麼您將獲得約 170 萬美元的未實現收益，並被約 [160 萬美元] 的已實現損失所抵消。然後透過增值和其他一些措施，你就可以得到投資組合中的增量。

Okay.

好的。

You're asking about quarter to date, right?

您問的是截至目前為止的季度情況，對吧？

Yeah.

是的。

I mean, (multiple speakers) activity through --

我的意思是，（多位發言者）活動透過—

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

Quarter end?

季末？

Yeah.

是的。

I mean, I would say there's nothing -- I mean, Patrick can speak up to, but I think nothing outside of normal course. Like I don't think there's anything particularly different about the market today than we experienced in the third quarter.

我的意思是，我會說沒有什麼——我的意思是，帕特里克可以說話，但我認為沒有什麼超出正常範圍。我認為今天的市場與第三季的經驗沒有什麼特別不同。

So we had one or two handful of portfolio companies to repay. We've invested in one or two new portfolio companies. Again, as Ted said, I don't think there's anything, particularly, outside of the ordinary course that's gone on so far quarter to date.

因此，我們有一兩家投資組合公司需要償還。我們投資了一兩家新的投資組合公司。再次，正如特德所說，我不認為有任何事情，特別是，到目前為止，本季度到目前為止發生的正常過程之外的事情。

Okay. And share repurchase quarter to date?

好的。到目前為止，股票回購情況如何？

I'd have to get back to you on that number, Steve. But as you know, the program is an ongoing program. And when that turns out, we'll set it up as we normally do.

我得回覆你那個號碼，史蒂夫。但如您所知，該計劃是一個正在進行的計劃。當結果確定時，我們將像平常一樣進行設定。

Okay. Two more. Can you comment on the CLO market? And given you're over earning the dividend and your view on dividends going into the end of the year?

好的。還有兩個。您能評論一下CLO市場嗎？考慮到您已經獲得了超額股息以及您對年底股息的看法？

Yeah. I'll take the CLO market and Ted could about dividends. I'd say, in general, the CLO market has been a little bit healthier, particularly back half of Q3 and maybe a touch into the first bit of Q4 here. That has led overall to a little bit better bids and pricing in the syndicated loan market in general as some that CLO formation has driven the need to buy some assets.

是的。我會關注 CLO 市場，Ted 會關注股息。我想說，總的來說，CLO 市場稍微健康一些，尤其是第三季後半段，也許第四季的前半部分也有所改善。這總體上導致銀團貸款市場的出價和定價有所提高，因為 CLO 的形成推動了購買某些資產的需求。

So I'd say, generally speaking, the CLO market is like a little bit healthier this quarter or where we sit today relative to perhaps sometimes in the last couple of quarters. Having said that, the CLOs that we are invested in, generally speaking, are out of their investment periods.

所以我想說，一般來說，相對於過去幾季的某些情況，本季或我們今天所處的位置 CLO 市場稍微健康一些。話雖如此，我們投資的CLO一般來說已經過了投資期限。

So by and large, the CLO managers there are making decisions around what they might expect in terms of repayments on their various portfolios, the relative OC tests, and things like that around distributions, et cetera. So our particular portfolio was a little bit separate from the CLO market broadly. But I'd say, generally speaking, the market has had some improvement over the last, call it, six to eight weeks or so.

因此，總的來說，CLO 經理會圍繞他們對各種投資組合的償還預期、相關 OC 測試以及分配等方面的預期做出決策。因此，我們的特定投資組合與廣泛的 CLO 市場有點不同。但我想說，總的來說，市場在過去六到八週左右的時間裡有了一些改善。

So given your specific portfolio, your CLO portfolio was a source of funds rather than a use of funds.

因此，考慮到您的特定投資組合，您的 CLO 投資組合是資金來源，而不是資金用途。

Well, it's always a source of funds. It's just that it's always a different amount of source of funds. But it's not a use of funds.

嗯，它始終是資金來源。只不過資金來源的金額總是不同而已。但這不是資金的使用。

Okay. Yes. I meant (multiple speakers)

好的。是的。我的意思是（多個發言者）

I think you're asking about total return versus income return.

我認為您問的是總回報與收入回報。

Yes.

是的。

Again, we're getting positive income off our portfolio. I mean, well, it's only a couple of weeks in the quarter. I don't think we can. I don't think we can -- I don't think we really know in terms of valuation. And it's small -- and again, it's 2% of our portfolio.

我們再次從投資組合中獲得正收益。我的意思是，這個季度只有幾週。我認為我們不能。我認為我們不能——我認為我們在估值方面並不真正了解。而且規模很小——而且只占我們投資組合的 2%。

Okay. And Ted, your comment about year-end dividends.

好的。泰德（Ted），您對年終股息的評論。

In terms of a special dividend, is that what you're asking about?

就特別股息而言，這就是您所問的問題嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

(multiple speakers)

（多個發言者）

Something along those lines.

沿著這些思路。

I mean, listen, we obviously benefited greatly from some of this M&A, which created some advantage for our shareholders around spillover income. I would say we feel really good about our dividends, even if the Fed cuts rates, which we don't obviously speculate on because that's not our thing.

我的意思是，聽著，我們顯然從這些併購中受益匪淺，這為我們的股東在溢出收入方面創造了一些優勢。我想說，即使聯準會降息，我們對股息也感覺非常好，但我們顯然不會對此進行猜測，因為這不是我們的事。

The dividend pretty protected down to a pretty big reduction in short-term rates. So again, we assess every quarter. Obviously, we're comfortably over earning our dividend in a period of time where we're getting (technical difficulty), and we feel good about where our dividend. I don't -- again, like we will assess it at year end and see if there's -- see where we are in terms of spillover income.

由於短期利率大幅下降，股息得到了相當程度的保護。同樣，我們每季都會進行評估。顯然，在我們獲得（技術難度）的一段時間內，我們輕鬆地超額賺取了股息，並且我們對股息的位置感到滿意。我不會——再說一遍，就像我們將在年底評估它，看看是否有——看看我們在溢出收入方面處於什麼位置。

All right. Thanks a lot.

好的。多謝。

James Powers.

詹姆斯·鮑爾斯。

Good afternoon. I was wondering if that is -- I don't know whether I'm pronouncing it correctly, Repertoire Partners. But anyway, they made a filing in the last quarter and had quite a bit of stock. I was wondering if you would talk to them about their intentions and what they -- are they going to be sellers of this block? And how did they get that bigger block?

午安.我想知道這是否是——我不知道我的發音是否正確，Repertoire Partners。但無論如何，他們在上個季度進行了備案，並擁有相當多的庫存。我想知道您是否願意與他們談論他們的意圖以及他們——他們會成為這個街區的賣家嗎？他們是如何獲得更大的區塊的？

Yeah. I don't think we comment on individual shareholders and individual shareholders intentions. So I'm not sure we want to really make a comment on that.

是的。我認為我們不會評論個人股東和個人股東的意圖。所以我不確定我們是否真的想對此發表評論。

Okay. All right. Thank you.

好的。好的。謝謝。

And we have no further questions at this time. I'll hand the call back over to Ted Goldthorpe for any closing remarks.

目前我們沒有進一步的問題。我會將電話轉回給特德·戈德索普（Ted Goldthorpe）以供結束發言。

Great. Well, thank you all for attending our call. As per always, please reach out to us with any questions, which we're happy to discuss. And hope everybody has a great Thanksgiving, and we look forward to speaking to you again on our next call. Thank you.

偉大的。好的，謝謝大家參加我們的電話會議。一如既往，如有任何問題，請聯絡我們，我們很樂意討論。希望每個人都有一個愉快的感恩節，我們期待在下次電話中再次與您交談。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you all for joining today's meeting. That will conclude our call. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，感謝大家參加今天的會議。我們的通話就到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。