Bed Bath & Beyond Inc (BBBY) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us, and welcome to the Q4 2025 Bed Bath & Beyond Inc earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

大家好。感謝您參加，歡迎參加 Bed Bath & Beyond Inc 2025 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作說明）

I will now hand the call over to Melissa Smith, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話交給總法律顧問兼公司秘書梅麗莎史密斯。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and welcome to Bed Bath & Beyond Inc's fourth quarter and full year 2025 earnings conference call. Joining me today on the call are Executive Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Marcus Lemonis; and President and Chief Financial Officer, Adrianne Lee. Today's discussion and our responses to your questions reflect management's views as of today, February 23, 2026, and may include forward-looking statements, including, without limitation, statements relating to our future business strategy, goals, financial performance, outlook for the remainder of the quarter or for any other period, anticipated growth, stock price, profitability, macroeconomic conditions, the value of any of our brands and investments, relationships with third parties and agreements we are entering into with them, margin improvement, expense reduction, marketing efficiencies, conversion, customer experience, changes to brands or websites, product offerings, the merger agreement with the Brand House Collective, blockchain efforts and strategies, tokenization efforts and strategies and the timing of any of the foregoing. Actual results could differ materially from such statements.

謝謝接線生。下午好，歡迎參加 Bed Bath & Beyond Inc. 2025 年第四季及全年財報電話會議。今天與我一起參加電話會議的有執行董事長兼首席執行官馬庫斯·萊蒙尼斯；以及總裁兼首席財務官阿德里安娜·李。今天的討論以及我們對您問題的回答反映了管理層截至 2026 年 2 月 23日的觀點，其中可能包含前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於與我們未來的業務戰略、目標、財務業績、本季度剩餘時間或任何其他時期的展望、預期增長、股價、盈利能力、宏觀經濟狀況、我們任何品牌和投資的價值、與第三方的關係以及我們正在與他們簽訂的協議、利潤率提高、費用降低、營銷效率、轉化率、客戶更具品牌、供應商或網站的變化率的合併協議、區塊鏈工作和策略、代幣化工作和策略以及上述任何事項的時間表相關的陳述。實際結果可能與此類說法有重大差異。

Additional information about risks, uncertainties and other important factors that could potentially impact our financial results is included in our Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, and in our Form 10-Q for the quarter ended September 30, 2025, and in our subsequent filings with the SEC.

有關可能影響我們財務業績的風險、不確定性和其他重要因素的更多信息，請參閱我們截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日止年度的 10-K 表格、截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日止季度的 10-Q 表格以及我們隨後向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

During this call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. Our filings with the SEC, including our fourth quarter and full year earnings release, which is available on our Investor Relations website at investors.beyond.com contain additional disclosures regarding these non-GAAP measures, including reconciliations of these measures to the most comparable GAAP measures.

在本次電話會議中，我們將討論一些非GAAP財務指標。我們在提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件，包括我們的第四季度和全年收益報告（可在我們的投資者關係網站 investors.beyond.com 上查閱），其中包含有關這些非 GAAP 指標的更多披露信息，包括這些指標與最可比的 GAAP 指標的調節表。

Following management's prepared remarks, we will open the call for questions. A slide presentation with supporting data is available for download on our Investor Relations website. Please review the important forward-looking statements disclosure on slide 2 of that presentation.

在管理階層發言結束後，我們將開始接受提問。投資者關係網站提供包含相關數據的幻燈片簡報供下載。請查閱該簡報第 2 頁的重要前瞻性聲明揭露資訊。

With that, let me turn the call over to you, Marcus.

那麼，現在把電話交給你了，馬庫斯。

Thanks, Melissa. I'm here with Adrianne as well. I'm sure that some of you are in New York City. For the first time we're experiencing more snow than we have in Salt Lake. So happy skiing to everybody out there.

謝謝你，梅麗莎。我和艾德琳也在這裡。我相信你們當中有些人身在紐約市。我們這裡第一次出現了比鹽湖城更多的降雪。祝所有滑雪愛好者滑雪愉快！

Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us. 2025 was about stabilizing and building the base of this business. 2026 is about growing that base and expanding it within the framework of our three pillar ecosystem architecture. That framework that we announced on January 5 remains unchanged. Over the last eight quarters, we have delivered consistent year over year EBITDA improvement while materially lowering the breakeven level of the company. That discipline continued in the fourth quarter.

各位下午好，感謝各位的參與。 2025 年的重點是穩定和夯實業務基礎。 2026 年的重點是發展壯大這一基礎，並在我們三大支柱生態系統架構的框架內拓展業務。我們於1月5日宣布的框架保持不變。在過去的八個季度裡，我們實現了 EBITDA 逐年穩定成長，同時大幅降低了公司的損益平衡點。這種自律精神在第四節依然保持。

Revenue declined year over year, largely reflecting housing market softness and our deliberate decision to eliminate vendors and SKUs that generated negative contribution margin. We chose margin integrity over headline revenue. That was intentional, and it's also in our past. Importantly, the year over year revenue gap narrowed meaningfully in the fourth quarter, while adjusted EBITDA loss improved by more than $23 million or 84% on lower revenue. We also delivered meaningful gross profit margin improvement in 2025 compared to 2024 despite tariff headwinds and an unpredictable sourcing environment.

營收年減，主要反映了房地產市場疲軟以及我們有意取消那些產生負貢獻利潤的供應商和 SKU 的決定。我們選擇保持利潤率，而不是追求營收總額。那是我們有意為之，也曾是我們過去的做法。重要的是，第四季同比收入差距顯著縮小，而調整後的 EBITDA 虧損因收入下降而減少了 2,300 多萬美元，降幅達 84%。儘管面臨關稅阻力和不可預測的採購環境，我們 2025 年的毛利率仍比 2024 年有了顯著提高。

That improvement reflects better vendor negotiations, improved product mix, tighter inventory controls and a more efficient operating structure. Our margin performance is increasingly structural, not cyclical In 2026, our objective is to advance and progress our margins towards 25%, the midpoint of our 24% to 26% framework. Over time, as omnichannel scales increases and ecosystem synergies compound, we believe we can break through 26% and ultimately reset the original range higher. That progression is going to take time. We will not compromise top line growth or customer value simply to form for short-term margin expansion.

這項改進反映了更好的供應商談判、更優化的產品組合、更嚴格的庫存控制和更有效率的營運結構。我們的利潤率表現越來越具有結構性，而非週期性。 2026 年，我們的目標是將利潤率提升至 25%，這是我們 24% 至 26% 目標框架的中點。隨著全通路規模的擴大和生態系統協同效應的增強，我們相信我們可以突破 26% 的門檻，並最終將原先的範圍重新提高。這一過程需要時間。我們不會為了短期利潤成長而犧牲營收成長或客戶價值。

We believe the true base of the business has now been established in 2025. We are seeing low to mid-single-digit year over year increases in revenue growth early in the year and are targeting low- to mid-single-digit revenue growth for the full year 2026 based on current trends. While we're not providing formal guidance, it is important because the company is in an active building phase, growing its base business while layering in complementary acquisitions across each of the three pillars, we believe it is important to provide directional clarity, so investors understand how performance should progress quarter-by-quarter and across the full year.

我們認為，該業務的真正基礎已於 2025 年確立。今年年初，我們看到收入年增率在個位數低到中等水平，根據目前的趨勢，我們預計 2026 年全年收入成長率也將在個位數低到中等水平。雖然我們沒有提供正式的業績指引，但這很重要，因為公司正處於積極的建設階段，在發展其基礎業務的同時，還在三大支柱領域進行互補性收購。我們認為，提供方向性的清晰指引非常重要，這樣投資者才能了解公司業績將如何逐季度和全年發展。

This is a build. It is sequenced and it is deliberate, much like the last eight quarters. We expect continued year over year improvement, but that improvement will not be linear. It will follow integration timing and execution milestones. In the first quarter, we expect year over year revenue growth and EBITDA improvement of at least 30% compared to Q1 of last year.

這是一個建置版本。它是有計劃、有目的的，就像過去八個季度一樣。我們預計每年都會持續改善，但這種改善不會是線性的。它將遵循整合時間和執行里程碑。我們預計第一季營收將年增，EBITDA 將比去年同期成長至少 30%。

This reflects stabilization of the base business and continued cost discipline. In quarter two, we expect to close on the Kirkland's transaction on or around April 1. Q2 will reflect partial ownership and will include transition and integration activity. It will not reflect the full benefit of merger synergies. We expect approximately 90 to 120 days following the closing to execute meaningful integration initiatives, including consolidation of overlapping corporate costs, vendor contract alignment and purchasing leverage, shared services optimization, supply chain integration, technology integration and merchandising alignment.

這反映了基礎業務的穩定和持續的成本控制。第二季度，我們預計將於 4 月 1 日左右完成 Kirkland's 的交易。第二季將反映部分所有權，並包括過渡和整合活動。這將無法充分體現合併綜效帶來的好處。我們預計在交易完成後的 90 至 120 天內執行有意義的整合計劃，包括合併重疊的公司成本、供應商合約協調和採購槓桿、共享服務優化、供應鏈整合、技術整合和商品銷售協調。

There will be transaction costs and transition costs associated with the merger and integration. Q2 should be viewed as an integration quarter, not a fully synergized quarter. But the base business will have increased revenue and will have improvement on the bottom line as it relates to EBITDA.

合併和整合過程中會產生交易成本和過渡成本。第二季度應該被視為整合季度，而不是完全協同效應季度。但基礎業務的收入將會增加，與 EBITDA 相關的利潤也會有所改善。

Quarter three integration work should be executed, and Q2 should begin to flow through the financials in a more meaningful way. We expect positive top line growth and improved operating leverage with a stretch objective to approach breakeven. By Q4, assuming integration milestones are achieved, we expect positive top line growth again and improve margin leverage with an opportunity in Q4 for profitability. This framework reflects disciplined execution, not reliance on a housing recovery.

第三季整合工作應該已經完成，第二季的數據應該開始以更有意義的方式反映在財務報表中。我們預期營收將實現正成長，營運槓桿將有所提高，並力爭實現損益平衡。假設整合里程碑得以實現，我們預計到第四季度，營收將再次實現正成長，利潤率也將提高，第四季度預計將實現盈利。這個框架體現的是嚴謹的執行，而不是對房屋市場復甦的依賴。

Everything we are building fits into one of three defined pillars. I outlined them on my January 5 letter and again today on my February 23 shareholder letter. Nothing sits outside the framework that I've provided. The architecture is the filter through which we evaluate every deal, every acquisition and every decision. We are aggregators, not consolidators.

我們所建構的一切都符合三大支柱之一。我在 1 月 5 日的信中概述了這些內容，今天在 2 月 23 日的股東信中再次概述了這些內容。沒有任何事物超出我所提供的框架之內。架構是我們評估每一筆交易、每一次收購和每一個決策的過濾器。我們是聚合商，不是整合商。

A consolidator requires similar businesses to reduce costs and drive margin through scale. An aggregator, which we are builds a connected system of complementary capabilities that strengthen one another. Later on, you'll be able to check our investor site to see the graphic that we've posted, one sheet graphic that will show you what that ecosystem looks like. We are building integration, not accumulation.

整合者需要類似的企業來降低成本，並透過規模經濟提高利潤率。我們所扮演的聚合者角色，建構了一個相互關聯的互補能力系統，這些能力彼此增強。稍後，您可以訪問我們的投資者網站，查看我們發布的圖表，這是一張圖表，它將向您展示該生態系統的外觀。我們建構的是融合，而非累積。

The other one is pretty simple. It's our omnichannel business. It includes brands like Bed Bath & Beyond, Overstock, buybuy BABY and Kirkland's upon closing. Including Kirkland's, this pillar approximates $1.5 billion in annualized revenue with an additional omnichannel transaction agreed to in principle with the sellers expected to add an additional $500 million in top line. Look, retail drives engagement, purchasing leverage and customer acquisition.

另一個就很簡單了。這是我們的全通路業務。關閉時，其中包括 Bed Bath & Beyond、Overstock、buybuy BABY 和 Kirkland's 等品牌。包括 Kirkland's 在內，該支柱業務的年化收入約為 15 億美元，此外，與賣方原則上達成的一項全通路交易預計將增加 5 億美元的收入。你看，零售能夠促進用戶參與、提升購買力並獲取客戶。

Pillar 2 is our protection advocacy, brokerage and financial solutions pillar. It includes property and casualty insurance, renters insurance, home warranties, product warranties, title services, renovations and renovation financing, mortgages and HELOCs, a credit union partnership and a scaled residential brokerage network. The brokerage platform is critical. We are pursuing the acquisition or development of a scaled residential brokerage network as we speak, of thousands and ultimately, tens of thousands of agents. Protection and advocacy come first. When trust is established, customers give us permission to extend those services. Financial services is an extension of trust, not the starting point.

第二個支柱是我們的保育倡議、經紀和金融解決方案支柱。其業務包括財產和意外傷害保險、租屋保險、房屋保固、產品保固、產權服務、房屋翻新和翻新融資、抵押貸款和房屋淨值信用額度、信用合作社合作關係以及規模化的住宅經紀網路。經紀平台至關重要。我們正在積極尋求收購或發展一個規模化的住宅經紀網絡，目標是擁有數千名，最終達到數萬名經紀人。保護和倡導是首要任務。信任建立後，客戶便允許我們擴展這些服務。金融服務是信任的延伸，而不是信任的起點。

Pillar three is our home services installation and maintenance infrastructure. It includes flooring, cabinetry, closets and storage systems, carpeting, renovation services, professional installation, repair and maintenance networks. The differentiator is the installation labor model. Most homeowners cannot self-install flooring, cabinetry or renovation materials, installation is required. By building a professional labor network, we create higher transaction values, stronger attachment rates, greater customer stickiness and ongoing maintenance engagement. This infrastructure converts retail demand into completed projects and allows brokerage origination to flow into renovation activity. For all of this to work, you got to make sure that everything has a unifying layer.

第三支柱是我們的家庭服務安裝和維護基礎設施。它包括地板、櫥櫃、衣櫃和儲物系統、地毯、裝修服務、專業安裝、維修和維護網路。差別在於安裝人工模式。大多數房主無法自行安裝地板、櫥櫃或裝修材料，因此需要專業人員進行安裝。透過建構專業的勞動力網絡，我們能夠創造更高的交易價值、更強的客戶依附率、更高的客戶黏著度和持續的維護參與度。該基礎設施將零售需求轉化為已完成的項目，並使經紀業務能夠轉化為裝修活動。要讓這一切奏效，你必須確保所有事物都有一個統一的層面。

Surrounding all three pillars is our proprietary loyalty and identity wrapper executed in partnership with BILT. We're also building a broader home operating system. The home operating system connects the homeowner in the home through durable digital records around protection, financing, renovation history, installation records, warranties, public records, surveys, titles, deeds and maintenance events. LifeChain supports this infrastructure by creating durable records around both the homeowner and the home itself on blockchain. Without this layer, these are separate businesses.

圍繞這三大支柱的是我們與 BILT 合作開發的專有忠誠度和身份包裝。我們也正在建立一個更廣泛的家庭作業系統。家庭作業系統透過持久的數位記錄將房主與房屋連接起來，這些記錄包括保護、融資、裝修歷史、安裝記錄、保固、公共記錄、調查、所有權、契約和維護事件。LifeChain 透過在區塊鏈上創建關於房主和房屋本身的持久記錄來支持這項基礎設施。如果沒有這一層，它們就是各自獨立的企業。

With it, they become an integrated ecosystem. A key priority in 2026 is accelerated implementation of modern technology across the enterprise. Yes, that includes AI. We are deploying tools that increase conversion, improve inventory productivity, optimize pricing, enhanced marketing efficiency and reduce operating costs. Technology is performance lever designed to drive revenue up and cost down simultaneously.

有了它，它們就成為一個完整的生態系統。2026 年的一項重點工作是加快在整個企業範圍內實施現代技術。是的，這其中也包括人工智慧。我們正在部署各種工具，以提高轉換率、提升庫存效率、優化定價、增強行銷效率並降低營運成本。技術是一種績效槓桿，旨在同時提高收入和降低成本。

At this point, I'll turn the call over to Adrianne to walk through our fourth quarter and full year financial results in greater detail. Adrianne?

接下來，我將把電話交給艾德里安娜，讓她更詳細地介紹我們第四季和全年的財務表現。阿德里安娜？

Thank you, Marcus, for your insight into the significant financial progress we made in 2025 and our strategic path forward, as you mentioned, outlined in your shareholder letters. I will now turn to our fourth quarter financial results, which highlight the achievement of consistent earnings improvement throughout 2025 and the material progress towards our committed targets to restore our retail operating discipline. Revenue declined 10% year over year in the fourth quarter and 6% if you exclude the impact of discontinuing our operations in Canada. AOV improved 7%, driven by our continued focus on improving assortment on the Bed Bath site and an increased sales mix into Overstock. This was partially offset by less orders delivered in the quarter versus 2024.

感謝馬庫斯先生對我們在 2025 年取得的重大財務進展以及我們在致股東信中概述的戰略前進方向的深刻見解。現在我將介紹我們第四季度的財務業績，業績顯示我們在 2025 年全年實現了持續的盈利增長，並在恢復零售運營紀律方面取得了實質性進展。第四季營收年減 10%，如果排除停止在加拿大開展業務的影響，則年減 6%。AOV 提高了 7%，這得益於我們持續專注於改善 Bed Bath 網站上的產品種類，以及 Overstock 銷售組合的增加。與 2024 年同期相比，本季訂單交付量有所減少，部分抵消了上述影響。

However, I am pleased orders delivered increased 13% in the fourth quarter versus third quarter of 2025. Gross margin landed at 24.6% for the quarter, a 160 basis points improvement compared to the same period last year. For the full year, we improved gross margin by 390 basis points to 24.7%, driven by structural changes in freight contracts and returns economics as well continued pricing and discounting rigor.

不過，我很高興第四季訂單交付量比 2025 年第三季成長了 13%。本季毛利率為 24.6%，比去年同期提高了 160 個基點。全年來看，由於貨運合約和退貨經濟的結構性變化以及持續嚴格的定價和折扣措施，我們的毛利率提高了 390 個基點，達到 24.7%。

We expected quarterly gross margin to be in the 24% to 26% range, impacted by seasonality, emerging categories and competitive landscape and delivered just that. Sales and marketing decreased by $15 million or improved efficiency by 350 basis points as a percent of revenue versus last year. It's important to note, our full year spend efficiency improved by close to 350 basis points, another meaningful improvement to earnings power. We continue to navigate the balance of driving revenue and maintaining our ROAS guardrails while improving the site experience and sharpening pricing. We maintained our internal guardrails, launch retention tools, improved own channel and now need to optimize these tools and learnings for growth.

我們預期季度毛利率將在 24% 至 26% 之間，受季節性因素、新興品類和競爭格局的影響，而實際結果也確實如此。與去年相比，銷售和行銷支出減少了 1500 萬美元，或效率提高了 350 個基點（佔收入的百分比）。值得注意的是，我們全年支出效率提高了近 350 個基點，這對獲利能力來說又是一個重要的提升。我們將繼續努力平衡收入成長並維持 ROAS 指標，同時改善網站體驗並優化定價。我們維護了內部保障措施，推出了用戶留存工具，改進了自有管道，現在需要優化這些工具和經驗以實現成長。

G&A and tech expense of $33 million decreased by $15 million year over year as a result of our commitment to reduce fixed costs through rightsizing the organization, prioritizing efforts and mandating productivity. I am pleased that we exceeded our commitment to achieve a $150 million annual run rate.

由於我們致力於透過調整組織規模、優先考慮工作重點和強制提高生產力來降低固定成本，一般及行政費用和技術費用為 3300 萬美元，比上年減少了 1500 萬美元。我很高興我們超額完成了實現 1.5 億美元年收入目標的承諾。

All in, adjusted EBITDA came in at a loss of $4 million, an 84% or $23 million improvement versus the fourth quarter of 2024. Full year adjusted EBITDA was a loss of $31 million, a $113 million improvement versus 2024. Reported diluted EPS was a loss of $0.30 per share, an 82% or $1.36 improvement year over year. Notably, full year net loss improved by $174 million and reported diluted EPS improved by 75% or $4.15.

綜合來看，調整後的 EBITDA 虧損 400 萬美元，比 2024 年第四季改善了 84%，即 2,300 萬美元。全年調整後 EBITDA 虧損 3,100 萬美元，比 2024 年改善 1.13 億美元。報告顯示，稀釋後每股虧損 0.30 美元，較上年同期改善 82% 或 1.36 美元。值得注意的是，全年淨虧損減少了 1.74 億美元，報告的稀釋每股收益提高了 75%，即 4.15 美元。

We ended the quarter with cash and cash equivalents, restricted cash and inventory balance of $207 million. Full year cash used in operating activities improved year over year by more than $118 million or 67%, illustrating significant progress against the transformation initiatives and stabilization of the retail operations.

本季末，我們的現金及現金等價物、受限現金及存貨餘額為 2.07 億美元。全年經營活動所用現金較上年同期減少了 1.18 億美元，增幅達 67%，顯示轉型計畫取得了顯著進展，零售業務也趨於穩定。

2025's performance reflects significant measurable and importantly swift progress in retaining our core retail operating discipline, and materially reducing the expense to run the business. This is evidenced by the $113 million or 79% improvement in adjusted EBITDA year over year. As always, we will remain focused on continuous improvement, finding efficient ways to create a more variable cost structure with an intense focus on driving top line growth.

2025 年的業績反映了我們在維持核心零售營運紀律方面取得了顯著、可衡量的、更重要的是迅速的進展，並大幅降低了業務營運成本。調整後 EBITDA 年增 1.13 億美元，增幅達 79%，足以證明這一點。我們將一如既往地專注於持續改進，尋找有效方法來創建更靈活的成本結構，並專注於推動營收成長。

With that, I would like to turn the call back to Marcus.

那麼，我想把電話轉回給馬庫斯。

Let me close with one broader perspective. Thanks, Adrianne. Our current plan does not assume a housing recovery. However, as mortgage rates moderate and transaction volumes return towards historical mid-cycle levels, the ecosystem we are assembling is positioned to benefit from that normalization. When incremental demand is layered on top of a fully integrated platform with merger synergies realized in structural costs aligned, we believe the company has potential over time to generate substantial mid-single-digit to high single-digit EBITDA margins.

最後，我想從一個更廣闊的角度來看這個問題。謝謝你，艾德里安娜。我們目前的計劃並未假設房屋市場會復甦。然而，隨著抵押貸款利率趨於緩和，交易量恢復到歷史週期中期水平，我們正在建立的生態系統將受益於這種正常化趨勢。當增量需求疊加在一個完全整合的平台上，並且透過合併協同效應實現了結構性成本的調整時，我們相信，隨著時間的推移，該公司有潛力產生可觀的中個位數到高個位數的 EBITDA 利潤率。

That expectation reflects disciplined execution and a normal housing environment, not aggressive assumptions. 2025 stabilize the base. 2026 is about expanding the base with a disciplined architectural framework. We are aggregating complementary capabilities. We are integrating talent and expertise. We are building execution and infrastructure.

這一預期體現的是嚴謹的執行和正常的住房環境，而非激進的假設。 2025年將穩定基礎。 2026年將著眼於在嚴謹的建築框架下擴展基礎。我們正在整合互補能力。我們正在整合人才和專業知識。我們正在建立執行力和基礎設施。

We are connecting the homeowner in the home. We are very deliberate, and we are very confident in our sequencing.

我們正在為房主提供居家連接。我們做事非常謹慎，對我們的排序非常有信心。

I'd like to now turn the call over for questions.

現在我將把通話交給各位提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Steven Forbes, Guggenheim Securities LLC.

Steven Forbes，古根漢證券有限責任公司。

Marcus, you mentioned a few 2026 growth drivers within the release in prepared remarks, right, AOV being one of them, conversion being another. But as we look at some of the core KPIs that you report, I was curious if you can maybe just walk us through how you're thinking about the active customer base? Like are we reaching a troughing point? Is there visibility within the cohorts to rescale that in 2026? And then also orders per active customer second quarter in a row of stability? Is that indicative of sort of that KPI also bottoming?

馬庫斯，你在新聞稿的準備好的發言稿中提到了一些 2026 年的成長驅動因素，對吧，其中之一是平均訂單價值 (AOV)，另一個是轉換率。但是，在查看您報告的一些核心 KPI 時，我很好奇您是否可以向我們詳細介紹一下您是如何看待活躍客戶群的？我們是不是已經接近谷底了？各群體是否有能力在 2026 年重新調整規模？此外，每位活躍客戶的訂單量是否連續第二季保持穩定？這是否表示該KPI也觸底了？

Thanks for that question. We don't believe that -- we believe, excuse me, we believe that the trough is behind us. And that everything you see going forward will have growth, growth in revenue, growth in EBITDA performance, growth in the number of active customers. What I want to be careful of is to land on AOV because as Bed Bath & Beyond starts to open up stores again, we believe that there's going to be a disproportionate amount of volume based on the last 12 to 24 months that will lean into some of the historical Bed Bath & Beyond categories. And while we don't expect furniture, patio and rugs to do anything but grow, when you start mixing in higher count items in your basket versus dollars in your basket, it could throw that off a little bit.

謝謝你的提問。我們不這麼認為——抱歉，我們相信，低谷已經過去了。而且，未來你所看到的一切都將成長，收入成長，EBITDA 業績成長，活躍客戶數量成長。我想謹慎的是，要關注平均訂單價值 (AOV)，因為隨著 Bed Bath & Beyond 開始重新開放門市，我們認為，根據過去 12 到 24 個月的數據，銷量將出現不成比例的增長，這部分銷量將集中在 Bed Bath & Beyond 的一些傳統品類上。雖然我們預計家具、露台和地毯的銷量只會增長，但如果你開始在購物籃中混入數量較多的商品而不是金額較大的商品，這可能會稍微影響銷量。

And as we start stocking a lot of inventory, in our potential Jackson, Tennessee warehouse through the Kirkland's acquisition, we're going to see more towels, more small appliances, more gadgets, more top of bed, more housewares go through our ecosystem online, ultimately driving that AOV down but driving the average customer base up. We will come up with a clean way to delineate historical categories and their performance and legacy Bed Bath categories and their performance because as a reminder, a lot of our online business today is a function of what Overstock did for years. So yes, growth in all cases, I want to be tempered on the AOV just because of the change in mix that could happen through the year.

隨著我們透過收購 Kirkland's 在田納西州傑克遜市的潛在倉庫開始大量囤貨，我們將看到更多的毛巾、更多的小家電、更多的小玩意、更多的床上用品、更多的家居用品透過我們的線上生態系統銷售，最終會降低平均訂單價值，但會提高平均客戶群。我們將找到一種清晰的方法來區分歷史類別及其表現和傳統床上用品和浴室用品類別及其表現，因為需要提醒的是，我們今天的許多在線業務都是 Overstock 多年來所做的事情的結果。所以，是的，在所有情況下都要增長，但我希望對平均訂單價值 (AOV) 保持謹慎，因為一年中產品組合可能會發生變化。

And then a follow-up. As we think through the opportunity you expressed via Pillar 2 and Pillar 3, I was curious if you could maybe explore your ability, if you have measured, I guess, interest among your active customer base or intent of utilization of such services, if the demographic profile sort of caters to those -- that services, I guess what gives you conviction and what should give us conviction that the opportunity is addressable to Bed Bath & Beyond?

然後還有後續報道。在思考您透過第二支柱和第三支柱提出的機會時，我很好奇您是否可以探討一下，您是否衡量過您的活躍客戶群對這些服務的興趣或使用意願，以及人口統計特徵是否符合這些服務的需求——我想，是什麼讓您確信，又是什麼讓我們確信，Bed Bath & Beyond 能夠抓住這個機會？

Well, I think you have to start to think about Bed Bath & Beyond differently and stop thinking about Bed Bath & Beyond is the old Overstock e-commerce business and start to think about the overall housing market. And when I look at the size of the TAM in the trillions, not billions in the overall housing market, we believe that an ecosystem that taps into all the parts and pieces of that is quintessential to our business. The omnichannel business is really the first place we meet the customer. And when you look at Bed Bath & Beyond, Overstock, buybuy BABY, Kirkland, and the pending acquisition that has yet to be announced, we will have rounded out all of the important, what I would call, categories of soft and hard goods inside the home.

我認為你必須換個角度看待 Bed Bath & Beyond，不要再把它看作是以前的 Overstock 電商企業，而應該把它看作是整個房地產市場的一部分。當我看到整個房屋市場的潛在市場規模以萬億計，而不是以數十億計時，我們認為，一個能夠利用其中所有組成部分的生態系統對我們的業務至關重要。全通路業務其實是我們與客戶接觸的第一站。當你看到 Bed Bath & Beyond、Overstock、buybuy BABY、Kirkland 以及尚未宣布的待定收購時，我們就涵蓋了所有重要的、我稱之為家居軟商品和硬商品的類別。

When I go to the other side of the paper, which is Pillar 3, the home services, we know that for decades, these things have existed independently and whether that's flooring, closets, cabinetry, carpentry, installation services, renovation services, we know those things are going to exist, regardless of what's happening in the general economy. And we believe that the connection between those two is that they're both originators of new customers.

當我翻到紙的另一面，也就是第三支柱——家庭服務時，我們知道，幾十年來，這些服務一直是獨立存在，無論是地板、衣櫃、櫥櫃、木工、安裝服務還是裝修服務，我們都知道，無論整體經濟狀況如何，這些服務都會繼續存在。我們認為這兩者之間的連結在於，它們都是新客戶的來源。

What I like about Pillar 3 is its ability to spark larger transactions that call for things like financing or warranties. If I'm putting in all new cabinetry in my kitchen, that could be a $7,500 to $8,000 order. That's going to largely come with financing and maybe some other services along the way. It also gives us the ability to get into the home with a homeowner and build the relationship, putting in new flooring, putting in new carpeting, putting in new closet systems. Don't just apply to a first-time homebuyer.

我喜歡第三支柱的一點是，它能夠引發需要融資或保固等的大型交易。如果我要在廚房安裝全新的櫥櫃，那筆訂單可能要花費 7500 到 8000 美元。這主要將透過融資來實現，或許還會伴隨一些其他服務。它還使我們能夠進入房主家中，建立關係，安裝新地板、新地毯、新衣櫃系統。不要只針對首次購屋者。

They apply to renovations. They apply to expanding families. They apply to life-changing events. And what we're doing is we're taking the proprietary knowledge we have of why customers shop at Bed Bath and more importantly, when they shop at Bed Bath, and we want to exploit all of those life events by selling them more than towels.

它們適用於房屋翻新。它們適用於不斷成長的家庭。它們適用於改變生命的事件。我們正在做的，是利用我們掌握的關於顧客為什麼在 Bed Bath 購物，更重要的是，何時在 Bed Bath 購物的專有知識，我們希望透過向他們銷售毛巾以外的更多產品來利用所有這些人生大事。

The middle section is probably the easiest to understand because we know it's a competitive landscape as it relates to mortgages and HELOCs and insurance and warranties. As a reminder, insurance and warranties are regulated. So it's not easy for people to discount those services. That comes from trust. When it comes to banking and things like banking, whether it's savings, checking, mortgages or HELOCs, we're going to take two avenues.

中間部分可能最容易理解，因為我們知道這是一個與抵押貸款、房屋淨值信用額度、保險和擔保相關的競爭環境。再次提醒，保險和保固均受監管。因此，人們很難忽視這些服務。那源自於信任。談到銀行業務以及類似銀行業務的事情，無論是儲蓄、支票帳戶、抵押貸款或房屋淨值信用額度，我們將採取兩種途徑。

The first avenue is we are launching a partnership to launch what we believe to be the first ever homeowners credit union in America. It's a unique proposition, and it will offer three products, market-leading savings rates, market-leading checking rates and what we believe is market-leading mortgages and HELOCs, that's a more traditional buyer. When they see credit union, they know there's value there because the layer of making money between the cost of funds and the retail rate that the banks have to make a profit, credit unions do not have.

第一種方法是，我們正在發起一項合作，以推出我們認為是美國第一個房主信用合作社。這是一個獨特的方案，它將提供三種產品：市場領先的儲蓄利率、市場領先的支票帳戶利率，以及我們認為市場領先的抵押貸款和房屋淨值信用額度（HELOC），這更適合傳統的購房者。當他們看到信用社時，他們就知道那裡有價值，因為信用社沒有銀行為了獲利而必須在資金成本和零售利率之間賺取利潤的那層成本。

We want to show our customers that value is squarely there. We signed a new deal with Brown & Brown to launch both a property and casualty insurance agency, a choice model that puts multiple carriers in front of people as well as a full relationship on home warranties and product warranties. Product warranties and shipping insurance are through Extend.

我們希望向客戶證明，我們的產品確實物有所值。我們與 Brown & Brown 簽署了一項新協議，推出財產和意外傷害保險代理機構，採用選擇模式，將多家保險公司擺在人們面前，並就房屋保固和產品保固建立全面的合作關係。產品保固和運輸保險由 Extend 提供。

The only reason why I'm 100% confident that this ecosystem works is that I did it in my former life, by understanding where origination starts and where all the other tentacles for lifetime value expansion exist. Candidly, what's missing in that middle stack and may be lost on people is brokerage services. As I mentioned in my prepared remarks and in my letter, we are pursuing three large transformative pillar acquisitions. One in Pillar 1, which I disclosed, is a deal in principle that's agreed to for Pillar 1. Pillar 3 is a deal in principle that's been agreed to on the home services side.

我之所以對這個生態系統的運作方式有百分之百的信心，唯一的原因是我前世就實踐過，我了解了起源在哪裡，以及所有其他拓展終身價值的途徑在哪裡。坦白說，中間層技術棧中缺少的，也是人們可能忽略的，是經紀服務。正如我在準備好的演講稿和信中提到的，我們正在推動三項具有重大變革意義的支柱性收購。我已揭露，第一支柱中的一項是原則上已就第一支柱達成的協議。第三支柱是家庭服務方面已達成的原則協議。

And in the middle pillar is a deal that's in process, pretty close to being agreed to that I think will give that business the teeth of origination that it ultimately leads. If those three acquisitions pan out the way we expect them to, it would be north of $1.5 billion of additional revenue on top of the existing base that I described, that also includes Kirkland's. So you take the 1.5 -- approximately $1.5 billion base of our original e-commerce business, you add the omnichannel business of Kirkland's to it, and then you add these 3 transactions, and you could end up with an annualized run rate of about $3 billion, but one in each of those pillars really providing the foundation for how those businesses will be built.

中間支柱是一個正在進行中的交易，已經非常接近達成一致，我認為這將賦予該業務最終引領的原始業務能力。如果這三項收購按我們預期的方式進行，那麼除了我之前描述的現有基礎之外，還將增加超過 15 億美元的額外收入，這也包括 Kirkland's。所以，以我們最初的電子商務業務約 15 億美元為基礎，加上 Kirkland's 的全通路業務，再加上這 3 筆交易，最終的年化運行率可能達到約 30 億美元，而這三家公司分別在各自的支柱領域取得了成功，真正為這些業務的構建奠定了基礎。

Jonathan Matuszewski, Jefferies.

喬納森·馬圖謝夫斯基，傑弗里斯。

Marcus, I had a follow-up question first on just Pillars 2 and 3. And just trying to get a better hold of maybe the trajectory for how you see those two mixing into the overall kind of revenue base? And would it be correct to assume that the margin profile of those Pillars 2 and 3 is going to be kind of the overall driving factor of EBITDA margin expansion over the medium term. Is that kind of the next leg in terms of margin expansion? That would be my first question.

馬庫斯，我首先想問一個關於第二支柱和第三支柱的後續問題。我只是想更了解一下，您認為這兩者將如何融合，最終融入整體收入基礎？那麼，是否可以假設第二支柱和第三支柱的利潤率狀況將成為中期內 EBITDA 利潤率擴張的總體驅動因素？這算是利潤率擴張的下一個階段嗎？這將是我的第一個問題。

Yeah. We've talked for a while now about the margin range of 24% to 26%, and that's been on the historical e-commerce business, and we know the retail business is slightly better than that, 2 or 3 points better than that in a normal environment. What we know for certain is that the home services, the cabinets, the flooring, the closets, the installation, the renovation, they all come with far greater margins than that in excess of 40%. And part of our strategy in growing our overall profitability is expanding our overall company consolidated margin through, a, the acquisition of those types of businesses in Pillar 3 and being able to absorb those. We will have work to do to take out some of the merger synergies and lower their CAC so that their EBITDA coincides with our expectations. But from a gross margin standpoint, materially higher than selling towels and couches online.

是的。我們之前討論過 24% 到 26% 的利潤率範圍，這是基於以往的電子商務業務而言的，我們知道零售業務的利潤率在正常情況下會略好一些，比這個範圍高出 2 到 3 個百分點。我們確切知道的是，家居服務、櫥櫃、地板、衣櫃、安裝、翻新等所有項目的利潤率都遠高於此，超過 40%。我們提高整體獲利能力策略的一部分，是透過以下方式擴大公司整體合併利潤率：a. 收購第三支柱中的這類企業，並能夠吸收這些企業。我們將需要做一些工作來消除一些合併綜效，降低其客戶獲取成本，使其 EBITDA 符合我們的預期。但從毛利率的角度來看，遠高於網路上銷售毛巾和沙發。

The middle section is probably the one that I'm most excited about. And it takes several years for it to come to fruition. But the acquisition that we have on the table will build the solid, call it, $400 million foundational base of which we'll build stuff on top of. In that particular instance, whether it's the credit unions, the insurance, the warranties, keep in mind that the cost of goods associated with all of those is de minimis. There is no real asset.

中間部分大概是我最期待的部分。而且這需要好幾年時間才能實現。但是，我們目前正在進行的收購將建立一個堅實的基礎，我們稱之為價值 4 億美元的基礎，我們將在此基礎上進行建設。在那種特殊情況下，無論是信用社、保險還是保修，請記住，與所有這些相關的商品成本都微不足道。沒有實際資產。

In many cases, because we are never taking on the liability. We're not acting as a bank. We're not acting as an insurance company. We're not acting as a warranty insurer. We are a marketing and sales organization, making commissions and fees off of those, the margins are explosive, north of 50%. And so over time, as we start to see those mature, we would expect the consolidated margin in the next 36 months pending these acquisitions coming together to expand above and beyond 30% for the overall ecosystem.

很多情況下，是因為我們從未承擔過責任。我們並非銀行。我們並非保險公司。我們並非保固保險公司。我們是一家行銷和銷售機構，從中賺取佣金和費用，利潤率非常高，超過 50%。因此，隨著時間的推移，隨著這些收購逐漸成熟，我們預計在未來 36 個月內，隨著這些收購的完成，整個生態系統的綜合利潤率將增長到 30% 以上。

The key is making sure that we take the costs out of these businesses. And one important distinction that I'm sure many of you are thinking, and I want to address upfront is we are going to operate these pillars individually with their own leaders and their own, call it, CEOs sort of presidents of those businesses. These are people that are foundationally subject matter experts in those disciplines, not taking those businesses and trying to have e-commerce people run them. We believe in having independent for entrepreneurs to be able to operate as subject matter experts. And where consolidation will exist is twofold.

關鍵在於確保我們能降低這些企業的成本。我相信你們很多人都在思考一個重要的區別，我想首先說明的是，我們將分別經營這些支柱業務，由它們自己的領導人和各自的執行長（或者說總裁）來管理。這些人本身就是這些領域的專家，而不是接手這些企業後試圖讓電子商務人員來經營它們。我們相信，讓企業家擁有獨立自主的平台，才能讓他們能夠以各自領域的專家身分進行工作。整合將會出現兩個面向。

One, from a financial and treasury standpoint, wanting to make sure that we're taking out any redundant back-office costs and from a data consolidation standpoint, meaning that each of these businesses are obligated to remit their financials, sign up for our code of conduct and the way we want to do business and contribute data in a form and a manner to the overall ecosystem that matters. We feed that data into a data fabric, which is being operated by a third party. And we partner with a master wrapper loyalty program, functioned and partnered with BILT, B-I-L-T. You can do your research and find out what they do today. We, as you could tell as a company, believe in partnering and buying as opposed to building everything because technology moves so fast.

第一，從財務和資金的角度來看，我們希望確保消除任何冗餘的後台成本；第二，從數據整合的角度來看，這意味著每個企業都有義務提交財務報表，簽署我們的行為準則和我們希望開展業務的方式，並以對整個生態系統至關重要的形式和方式貢獻數據。我們將這些資料輸入到由第三方營運的資料架構中。我們與一家大型包裝商合作，開展忠誠度計劃，並與 BILT（B-I-L-T）合作。你可以自己做些調查，了解他們現在在做什麼。正如你所看到的，我們公司信奉合作和收購，而不是事事自主研發，因為科技發展日新月異。

So the operators are really in their own little cocoon and we are acting as aggregators. But the most important aggregation and where we think we're going to get the real cost synergies lowering the CAC for each of them, finding administrative costs that can be eliminated and sharing in treasury management efficiency. And that's ultimately why we are so confident that this business in short order, 3 years can be in a normal mid-cycle environment, could be mid-single digit to high single-digit EBITDA contribution because of those factors.

所以運營商實際上都生活在自己的小圈子裡，而我們則扮演聚合者的角色。但最重要的整合，也是我們認為能夠真正實現成本綜效的地方，是降低每位客戶的獲客成本，找到可以消除的管理成本，並分享資金管理效率。正因如此，我們才如此有信心，在正常的周期中期環境下，這項業務在短期內（3 年）就能實現個位數中段到個位數高的 EBITDA 貢獻，原因就在於這些因素。

Very helpful. And then CAC is a nice segue just for a follow-up. Would love to just hear how you're thinking about measuring the success of your ads pilot with instant Checkout and maybe the types of customer activation or the volume of activation that you'd maybe need to see to divert more advertising dollars to that experimental channel?

很有幫助。然後，CAC 正好可以作為後續討論的過渡。我很想了解您是如何考慮衡量即時結帳廣告試點計畫的成功，以及您可能需要看到哪些類型的客戶啟動或激活量才能將更多廣告預算投入這個實驗管道？

We're talking -- you're talking about chat?

我們在聊天──你們在聊聊天嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah. It's too early. I mean it's been a couple of weeks and we were one of the pilot programs with them in getting launched, but it's really early in the innings. There's a lot of learnings that have to happen. But one thing that we have noticed in the last several months is that layering in different learning machines and different technologies is allowing us to get better, but let me be really clear.

是的。現在還太早了。我的意思是，雖然已經過去幾週了，我們是與他們合作啟動試點計畫之一，但現在還處於起步階段。有很多東西需要學習。但我們在過去幾個月注意到的一點是，透過疊加不同的學習機器和不同的技術，我們可以做得更好，但讓我把話說清楚。

We are nowhere, nowhere near where we need to be in the next 12 to 24 months. And we've started to engage with outside third parties to help us assess our tech infrastructure, look at our overhead, look at the connectivity between everything and look at integrations, we recently engaged with Alvarez and they'll be doing a full study for us particularly in light of all of these acquisitions to make sure that we're squeezing out every last dollar and capturing every last bit of information.

我們離未來 12 到 24 個月內需要達成的目標還差得很遠。我們已經開始與外部第三方合作，幫助我們評估我們的技術基礎設施，查看我們的營運成本，查看所有環節之間的連接性以及整合。我們最近與 Alvarez 合作，他們將為我們進行一項全面的研究，尤其是在所有這些收購之後，以確保我們榨取每一分錢，並獲取每一條資訊。

Bernie McTernan, Needham.

伯尼·麥克特南，尼德姆。

Great. Just had a follow-up on Pillar 2 to make sure I understood the right thing. So the large acquisition happening in Pillar 2 for origination. So should we assume then that all those -- whether it's insurance, home warranty, HELOCs, all that will be after the acquisition, you'll be able to offer all of that on a 1P basis and then partnering with big residential brokerage to basically sell those services?

偉大的。我剛剛就第二支柱的問題進行了後續確認，以確保我理解正確。因此，第二支柱領域正在進行大規模收購，以促進業務發展。那麼我們是否可以假設，所有這些——無論是保險、房屋保固、房屋淨值信用額度，所有這些都將在收購之後，您將能夠以1P（一對一）的方式提供所有這些服務，然後與大型住宅經紀公司合作來銷售這些服務？

So the way I'd like you to think about it is there's kind of like a 2-funnel approach. Funnel number one is using all of the customer engagement from Pillar 1 and Pillar 3 to offer all of those services in Pillar 2. And that's a little bit harder hill to climb quickly. You can get there over time after you build trust, after you improve your customer service experience, after people understand the connectivity. The acquisition in Pillar 2 around the brokerage services provides instant, I would call it, integration.

所以，我希望你們這樣理解：這有點像是雙漏斗方法。第一個漏斗是利用支柱 1 和支柱 3 中的所有客戶互動，在支柱 2 中提供所有這些服務。而且，要快速爬上這座山峰，難度就比較大了。隨著時間的推移，當你建立起信任、改善客戶服務體驗、讓人們了解連結方式之後，你就能實現目標。第二個支柱中圍繞著經紀服務的收購實現了即時的，我稱之為整合。

And I would expect on day two of that acquisition that the products and services that we have lined up whether it be with the credit union, whether it be with the insurance companies, whether it be with the warranty companies, whether it be with the titling companies would immediately be embedded. The piece we like most about this potential acquisition in Pillar 2 is that it has already started some of those services and have seen early success but doesn't necessarily, in our opinion, have the technology or the capital to invest in technology that can supercharge that.

我預計，在收購後的第二天，我們已經安排好的產品和服務，無論是與信用社、保險公司、保固公司或產權公司合作的產品和服務，都將立即融入收購流程中。我們最喜歡 Pillar 2 中這項潛在收購的一點是，它已經開始提供一些此類服務並取得了初步成功，但我們認為，它不一定擁有投資於能夠極大推動這些服務的技術或資金。

When you think about that real estate brokerage network, what you're really talking about is thousands, if not tens of thousands of sales agents who are commission based. That's how they sell things. We believe that there is an interesting and proper way to motivate those agents to receive commissions not only from the things they're permitted to inside of their real estate license but also to be able to sell other products and services in the ecosystem for commissions that are compliant with whatever the state regulation is.

當你想到房地產經紀網絡時，你實際上指的是成千上萬，甚至數萬名靠佣金提成的銷售代理。他們就是這麼賣東西的。我們認為，有一種有趣且恰當的方法來激勵這些經紀人不僅從他們的房地產執照允許的範圍內獲得佣金，而且還能夠銷售生態系統中的其他產品和服務，從而獲得符合州法規規定的佣金。

When you can pick up a 10,000-person army of salespeople who are commission-based who are hungry to provide value to customers only on things they need, you get instant activation. I would expect that within 12 months of making that acquisition, we would be running at relatively full steam looking for attachment in a more traditional manner.

當你能夠招募到一支由 10,000 名銷售人員組成的隊伍，他們以佣金為基礎，渴望為客戶提供他們真正需要的價值，你就能立即啟動銷售團隊。我預計在完成收購後的 12 個月內，我們將以相對全力的步伐，以更傳統的方式尋求附屬公司。

Okay. Understood. That's really helpful. And then just a quick follow-up. The -- I know we're not calling it guidance, but directional commentary on '26 for low to mid-single-digit revenue growth. Is that inclusive or exclusive of Kirkland?

好的。明白了。這真的很有幫助。然後還有一個簡短的後續問題。我知道我們不稱之為業績指引，但這是針對 2026 年的業績方向性評論，預計營收將實現低至中等個位數成長。這是否包括柯克蘭？

So let me take my time here and go very clear. In the mid-single revenue growth numbers that we're talking about, that is omnichannel -- excuse me, that is e-commerce only. Low to mid-single digits is e-commerce only. Kirkland's will have similar growth at the same time. And so when we closed on that acquisition for Q2, we're going to provide you a forecast.

所以，讓我慢慢來，把話說清楚。我們所談論的中等單筆收入成長數字，指的是全通路——抱歉，只是電子商務。個位數低到中段的比例僅指電子商務。柯克蘭公司同期也將達到類似的成長。因此，當我們完成第二季的收購後，我們將向您提供一份預測報告。

But what you can expect out of our base business for 2026 is low to mid-single, hopefully closer to mid-single-digit growth for the full year. Margin expectation for that base business, we were 24.7% in '24 -- excuse me, in 2025. We want to get to 25%, which is the midpoint, and that's a push, particularly with all the noise around tariffs. And the more recent noise as in like Saturday, we want to get ourselves to 25%. On the sales and marketing expense, we're probably going to look maybe flat to similar in 2026 versus 2025, I'm hedging myself a little bit there because I think we have some unlocks that haven't fully been realized.

但對於我們 2026 年的基礎業務而言，您可以預期的是低至中等個位數的成長，希望全年能接近中等個位數的成長。對於該基礎業務，我們預計 2024 年（抱歉，是 2025 年）的利潤率為 24.7%。我們希望達到 25% 的目標，這是中間值，但這並非易事，尤其是在關稅問題引發許多爭議的情況下。而像週六這樣的近期噪音，我們希望達到 25%。關於銷售和行銷費用，2026 年我們可能會與 2025 年持平或相近，我對此持保留態度，因為我認為我們還有一些尚未完全實現的潛力。

And we expect nice improvement in EBITDA every single quarter over its previous year with the outside shot, stretch, stretch, stretch goal in Q3 of profitability, a little less of a stretch in Q4 for profitability of 2026. That does not include any of the larger acquisitions we're talking about, but I promise you this. The shareholder letter and the amount of disclosures that we've provided, they will continue to be as robust as we're providing them now. So that when we do make an acquisition, you will understand how 1 plus 1 equals 2. There will be no hiding the weenie, you'll understand it full throttle.

我們預計每季的 EBITDA 都將比前一年有顯著改善，第三季實現獲利的目標雖然有些遙不可及，但第四季實現 2026 年獲利的目標難度會稍小一些。這還不包括我們正在討論的任何大型收購，但我向你保證這一點。我們向股東發出的信函以及我們提供的資訊揭露內容，將繼續保持目前的完整性和力度。這樣，當我們進行收購時，你就會明白 1 加 1 等於 2。真相無處遁形，你會徹底明白的。

What we have to tell you, though, in order to make the numbers work long term, it takes from the moment we get the keys because we can't influence change before we close. But from the moment we get the keys, in some cases, 90 to 120 days, in other cases, when you're getting out of leases or getting out of distribution centers or consolidating contracts, it could take anywhere from 8 to 12 months. We will show you that when we lay it out. We'll show you what it looks like. We'll show you what we think the pro forma could look like, and we'll show you maybe like a two, three year cadence of what that could look like as well.

不過，我們必須告訴你們，為了使這些數字長期有效，從我們拿到鑰匙的那一刻起就需要採取行動，因為在交易完成之前我們無法影響任何變化。但從我們拿到鑰匙的那一刻起，有些情況下需要 90 到 120 天，而在其他情況下，例如解除租賃合約、退出配送中心或合併合約時，可能需要 8 到 12 個月。我們稍後會詳細解釋。我們來給你看看它長什麼樣子。我們會向您展示我們認為的預測財務報表可能的樣子，也會向您展示未來兩到三年可能的財務報表趨勢。

I will tell you, I'm really excited by what we're seeing in the early forecast. And again, none of this contemplates a housing recovery. The housing recovery happens, then we're going to be in much better shape.

說實話，我對目前的預測結果感到非常興奮。而且，以上所有措施都沒有考慮到房屋市場的復甦。如果房屋市場復甦，我們的處境就會好得多。

Thomas Forte, Maxim Group.

Thomas Forte，Maxim集團。

Congrats on the improvement in the quarter and the year. Regarding the everything home ecosystem and pillars, the first question, and I'll wait for the answer and then one follow-up. So Marcus, when I look at each pillar, how do you determine when to work with a strategic partner versus when to own and operate an asset? On the surface, it seems like Pillar 1 is all owned and Pillars 2 and 3 are more partnerships or combinations of owned and partnerships?

恭喜本季及本年度業績均有所提升。關於整個家居生態系統和支柱，第一個問題，我會等待答案，然後再提出一個後續問題。所以馬庫斯，當我審視每個支柱時，你如何確定何時應該與策略夥伴合作，何時應該擁有並經營資產？從表面上看，支柱 1 似乎全部是自有資產，而支柱 2 和支柱 3 更像是合夥企業或自有資產與合夥企業的組合？

Pillar 1 is largely owned, but we are working on some larger licensing transactions with both the existing brands we have and some of the brands that we're acquiring. Secondly, we already have the relationship in Canada where we licensed and sold the intellectual property in Canada. We expect them to start opening stores, and they'll be contributory. But for the most part, Tom, you're right. The bulk of it is owned.

第一支柱大部分是自有品牌，但我們正在與現有品牌和我們正在收購的一些品牌進行一些更大的授權交易。其次，我們已經在加拿大建立了合作關係，我們在加拿大授權並出售了智慧財產權。我們預計他們會開始開店，並且會做出貢獻。但湯姆，你說的大多數是對的。其中大部分為私有財產。

In Pillar 2, the delineation between when we should be in it and when we shouldn't be in it, is when there's a lot of regulatory complexity to it and a lot of what I would call balance sheet risk. We are not in a position and probably won't be in the near future to take on any balance sheet risk around claims, or around reserves or around insurance or around financing or any of those things. We just don't believe that we are subject matter experts in that result.

在第二支柱中，我們應該參與其中和不應該參與其中的分界線，是當監管非常複雜以及存在許多我稱之為資產負債表風險時。我們目前沒有能力，而且在不久的將來可能也沒有能力承擔任何與索賠、準備金、保險、融資或任何相關事項有關的資產負債表風險。我們只是不認為自己是這方面的專家。

We are an origination machine, and we expect to make money through all of these different transactions, including the brokerage services in all of those. I would never expect us in the short term to be anything more than an insurance agency, a seller of warranties, a provider of financing. What we like about that is that there's no inventory requirement, there's no capital requirement. There's no reserve requirement and the money flows pretty nicely. But there also isn't a big staff required to execute those.

我們是一台貸款發起機器，我們希望透過所有這些不同的交易來賺錢，包括所有這些交易中的經紀服務。短期內，我絕對不會期望我們成為保險代理機構、保固銷售商或融資提供者以外的任何角色。我們喜歡它的原因是它不需要庫存，也不需要資金。沒有儲備金要求，資金流動也很順暢。但執行這些任務也不需要大量人員。

And so while some have said to me, oh, you're giving up margin by not being the bank or not being the insurance company. There is truth in that, but what they forget is all of the costs associated with doing that and the regulatory complexity with doing that, that is not where we want to spend our time nor our money.

所以有些人對我說，哦，你不做銀行或保險公司，就等於放棄了利潤空間。這話有一定道理，但他們忘了這樣做會帶來很多成本和監管上的複雜性，我們不想把時間和金錢浪費在這上面。

In Pillar 3, we want to own as much of that as we can, including providing the home services, installation services and all the products that go with it. We believe that, that is a gateway to meeting the homeowner where they need us most. The margins are explosive and the opportunity to surprise and delight and upsell is easier if we're controlling the journey than a third party is controlling the journey.

在第三支柱中，我們希望盡可能擁有這些內容，包括提供上門服務、安裝服務以及所有相關的產品。我們相信，這是在業主最需要我們的時候與他們見面的途徑。利潤空間巨大，如果我們自己掌控客戶旅程，就比第三方掌控客戶旅程更容易帶來驚喜、愉悅和追加銷售的機會。

Great. And then for my follow-up, can you walk us through, recognize it's still early, your vision for the home operating system in the home OS? I know you've talked about it a couple of times.

偉大的。那麼，我的後續問題是，您能否為我們詳細介紹一下，雖然現在還處於早期階段，但您對家庭作業系統中的家庭作業系統有何願景？我知道你已經談過這件事幾次了。

I like in the home operating system similar to how I like in loyalty. It's a wrapper around the entire ecosystem. And many people know home operating systems because they have Alexa or they have a ring doorbell. But at the end of the day, society and homeowners and renters are moving towards a connected home. And while it's nice to connect your lights and your AC and your TV and your radio and all those things, that isn't what we believe is the most important part of the operating system.

我喜歡家庭作業系統，就像我喜歡忠誠一樣。它是整個生態系的封裝。很多人了解智慧家庭作業系統，因為他們有 Alexa 或有 Ring 智慧門鈴。但歸根結底，社會、房主和租屋者都在朝著智慧家居的方向發展。雖然連接燈具、空調、電視、收音機等等這些東西很不錯，但我們認為這並不是作業系統最重要的部分。

The most important feature of the operating system, in our opinion, is a real estate ledger, a blockchain ledger that captures all of the important documents for two different sets of items. One, the homeowner themselves and all the things that make up everything that they do and the home asset itself, including titled Deed, survey, insurance, maintenance records because we know that the homeowner is portable. They're going to move in and out, and that home stays relatively constant.

我們認為，該作業系統最重要的功能是房地產帳簿，這是一個區塊鏈帳簿，它記錄了兩組不同物品的所有重要文件。第一，房主本人以及構成他們一切行為的所有事物和房屋資產本身，包括產權契約、測量圖、保險、維護記錄，因為我們知道房主是可以轉移的。他們會搬進來，也會搬出去，而那房子相對來說保持不變。

We like it on blockchain because we think it over time, provides integrity for insurance providers, lenders, home buyers, maintenance providers, warranty providers to see the true health report and the true lineage of that asset giving people an opportunity. No different than if you drive a car and you don't have an accident over time, you get better rates. People have to know what the health is. We think blockchain is a great way to do that.

我們喜歡區塊鏈，因為我們認為隨著時間的推移，它可以為保險公司、貸款機構、購屋者、維修服務商、保固服務商提供誠信保障，讓他們能夠看到資產的真實健康狀況和真實來源，從而為人們創造機會。這和開車沒有發生事故，隨著時間的推移，保費自然會降低一樣。人們必須了解什麼是健康。我們認為區塊鏈是實現這一目標的絕佳途徑。

If you look at that particular product being existent back when the Palisades fire happened, and all those folks had no records of anything that happened, we want to solve problems like that, both because people are transient, both because people buy and sell houses every seven years. And because there's these catastrophic events that caused that to be necessary. You would access that information both through an app and through a touchscreen in your home.

如果你回顧一下帕利塞茲大火發生時，這種特定產品就已經存在了，而所有那些人都沒有關於當時發生的事情的任何記錄，我們想要解決這類問題，既是因為人們流動性強，也是因為人們每七年就會買賣一次房屋。因為發生了這些災難性事件，才使得這一切成為必要。您可以透過應用程式和家中的觸控螢幕存取這些資訊。

As a feature, as a benefit, as a nice to have in addition to the important center of the universe with LifeChain. Of course, you'll be able to handle your lights and handle your alarm and handle your doorbell and your AC and all those other things that we're all used to. But that should be features and benefits, not the core deliverable. We expect to be developing a good chunk of that over the next 12 months and hope to launch something like that in partnership in 2027.

作為一項功能、優勢、一項錦上添花的附加功能，LifeChain 是宇宙的重要中心。當然，您肯定能夠控制燈光、警報器、門鈴、空調以及我們都習以為常的所有其他東西。但這應該是功能和優勢，而不是核心交付成果。我們預計在未來 12 個月內開發出其中很大一部分，並希望在 2027 年與合作夥伴共同推出類似產品。

Seth Sigman, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的塞思‧西格曼。

Can you guys hear me? I wanted to go back to your comment about low- to mid-single-digit revenue growth early this year. Is that meant to say what you're running right now? And if so, can you just bridge us versus, I think it was down 6% in the fourth quarter year over year. What is driving the top line improvement maybe across categories, perhaps consumer cohorts. What are you seeing? Because obviously, that would be a pretty meaningful improvement.

你們聽得到我說話嗎？我想回到您之前關於今年年初營收成長率為個位數低到中等水平的評論。這是指你現在正在運行的程式嗎？如果是這樣的話，可以幫我們把數據比較一下嗎？我記得第四季同比下降了 6%。推動營收成長的因素可能包括各個品類，也可能包括不同的消費族群。你看到了什麼？因為很顯然，那將是一項意義重大的改進。

Yeah. So a couple of things. We have seen positive year over year growth starting in January through today. It's low to mid-single digit. It is our goal over the course of the year to push ourselves towards mid-single digit and hopefully even bust through that.

是的。有兩件事。從一月至今，我們已經實現了同比正成長。氣溫在個位數偏低到偏中。我們今年的目標是努力將失利率提升到個位數中段，並希望能夠突破這個數字。

Here's what's ultimately changed. We have really done a nice job of cleaning up the assortment online. We've done a nice job, plenty of work to do left on improving the pricing. We've got better at marketing and getting people in our ecosystem to come back for the second and third purchase. We're being very diligent about the kind of marketing dollars that we're spending, spending a little bit more on new technology including a new pilot with chat, new techniques around SMS and we believe that the omnichannel launch will help just create general awareness.

最終發生改變的是以下幾點。我們已經很好地整理了線上商品種類。我們做得不錯，但在改進定價方面還有很多工作要做。我們在行銷方面做得更好了，能夠讓我們的生態系統中的用戶進行第二次和第三次購買。我們對行銷資金的使用非常謹慎，在新技術方面投入更多資金，包括聊天試點計畫、簡訊新技術等，我們相信全通路推廣將有助於提高公眾認知度。

We are not pleased, and I know this is going to sound funny, we are not pleased with low to mid-single-digit growth. We want to be conservative. And we want to outperform that in the market, but we also want to build our cash flow and our projections around something we know we can hit. And if you go back and you look at the last 4, 5 quarters, we've been pretty good at saying we're going to do something and delivering it. And I think that's the key to this business.

我們並不滿意，我知道這聽起來很滑稽，但我們對個位數低到中等的成長率並不滿意。我們想採取保守的做法。我們希望在市場上取得更好的成績，但我們也希望圍繞著我們知道能夠實現的目標來建立我們的現金流和預測。如果你回顧過去 4、5 個季度，你會發現我們一直很擅長說到做到。我認為這就是這項業務的關鍵。

We know we need to earn that trust and earn that confidence. And the only way to do that is set realistic expectations, meet them or exceed them. But so much of itself came from cleansing things, getting rid of vendors with bad margins, getting rid of SKUs with bad margin, getting rid of products on the website that have no relevance to our site, cleaning up how we're presenting brands. Figuring out how we're ultimately going to get the customer back for their second purchase that may have come through on a PLA ad. We can't keep just buying the customer. We have to earn, win and maintain that customer. And that's what we're starting to see happen.

我們知道我們需要贏得信任和信心。而實現這目標的唯一方法就是設定切合實際的目標，並達到甚至超越這些目標。但許多成就都來自於清理工作，例如清除利潤率低的供應商，清除利潤率低的 SKU，清除網站上與我們網站無關的產品，以及改善我們展示品牌的方式。弄清楚我們最終如何讓客戶再次購買，而他們的第二次購買可能是透過PLA廣告促成的。我們不能一直只靠收買客戶。我們必須贏得、留住並留住客戶。而這正是我們開始看到的情況。

When we look at Q1, just to give clarity around it, we are expecting call it, 3% to 5% in revenue improvement in Q1, and we are stretching for about a 30% improvement in EBITDA margin year over year from Q1 of last year, we're expecting margins to be -- where they're trending now is where we think they're going to end. They're around 24.5% to 24.7%. That starts to get a little bit of pressure as we start indexing into patio. When we get into Q2, we would expect to see that same 3% to 5% growth. We think there'll be a little bit of pressure on margins because more into patio, probably pushing closer to like 24.1%, 24.2%, but we expect EBITDA improvement again in Q2.

為了更清楚地說明第一季的情況，我們預計第一季的營收將成長 3% 到 5%，我們預計 EBITDA 利潤率將比去年第一季成長約 30%，我們預期利潤率將——它們目前的趨勢就是我們認為它們最終的走向。大約在 24.5% 到 24.7% 之間。當我們開始將目光轉向露台時，壓力就開始慢慢顯現出來。進入第二季度，我們預計仍將保持 3% 至 5% 的成長。我們認為利潤率會受到一些壓力，因為更多地投入到庭院產品中，可能會接近 24.1% 或 24.2%，但我們預計第二季 EBITDA 將再次改善。

And then when we get into Q3 and Q4 is when we think we're going to start to see a little bit more wind in our sales, where we expect that revenue to maybe be 5%, 5.5%, hopefully, forcing it to 6%, getting the margins to stabilize around 25% in Q3 and Q4. And having taken more costs out, which is what's giving us confidence to have a stretch, stretch, stretch goal to make some money in Q3. We know we'll be better in Q3. We don't know if we can get all the way to 0. And then in Q4, as we just reported, I think, a $4.4 million EBITDA loss, getting to 0 or above.

然後到了第三季和第四季，我們認為銷售額會開始出現一些成長，預計營收可能會成長 5%、5.5%，希望能夠達到 6%，使利潤率在第三季和第四季穩定在 25% 左右。削減了更多成本，這讓我們有信心在第三季設定一個遠大的目標，並實現盈利。我們知道第三季情況會好轉。我們不知道能否達到 0。然後，正如我們剛剛報導的那樣，第四季度 EBITDA 虧損 440 萬美元，達到或超過 0。

And we know we have time and we know we have work to do, but that is something that's really exciting in our company that we're doing it the right way. We're building -- we're growing. We're adding customers. We're generating revenue. We're making acquisitions. We are no longer in holy c*** of places burning down, and we need to cut stuff. We're now in the kind of mode that caused me to leave my old company for this full time.

我們知道我們有時間，也知道我們還有很多工作要做，但令我們公司真正興奮的是，我們正在以正確的方式做事。我們正在建設——我們正在成長。我們正在增加客戶。我們正在創造收入。我們正在進行收購。我們不再身處那些燃起熊熊大火的聖地，我們需要削減開支。我們現在所處的這種模式，正是我當初離開原公司全職投入這項工作的動力所在。

There are no further questions at this time. I would love to turn the call back to Marcus Lemonis, Executive Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題了。我謹將電話轉回給執行董事長兼執行長馬庫斯·萊蒙尼斯，請他作總結發言。

Great. Thank you so much. We look forward to seeing you on our next quarter call. Take care. Bye-bye.

偉大的。太感謝了。我們期待在下次季度電話會議上見到您。小心。再見。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。謝謝各位的出席。您現在可以斷開連線了。