Centrais Eletricas Brasileiras SA - Eletrobras (AXIA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Electrobras' conference to discuss results for the fourth-quarter '24. Present here today are Mr. Ivan de Souza Monteiro, CEO of Eletrobras; Mr. Eduardo Haiama, VP of Finance and Investor Relations; Mr. Antonio Varejao De Godoy, VP of Operations and Safety; Ms. Camila Araujo, VP of Governance, Risks, Compliance, and Sustainability; Mr. Elio Wolff, VP of Strategy and Business Development; Mr. Italo Freitas, VP of Commercialization; Mr. Juliano Dantas, VP of Innovation, R&D, Digital, and IT; Mr. Marcelo De Siqueira Freitas, VP of Legal Affairs; Mr. Renato Carreira, VP of Procurement and Services, and Interim VP of People, Management, and Culture; Mr. Robson Pinheir De Campos, VP of Expansion Engineering; and Mr. Rodrigo Limp.

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 Electrobras 會議討論 24 年第四季的業績。現今出席的有 Eletrobras 執行長 Ivan de Souza Monteiro 先生；財務與投資者關係副總裁 Eduardo Haiama 先生；營運與安全副總裁 Antonio Varejao De Godoy 先生；治理、風險、合規與永續性副總裁 Camila Araujo 女士；策略與業務發展副總裁 Elio Wolff 先生；商業化副總裁 Italos；和服務副總裁兼人力、管理和文化臨時副總裁 Renato Carreira 先生；擴建工程副總裁 Robson Pinheir De Campos 先生；以及 Rodrigo Limp 先生。

We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and will be made available on the company's Investor Relations website both in Portuguese and English. (Operator Instructions)

我們想通知您，該活動正在記錄中，並將以葡萄牙語和英語在公司的投資者關係網站上發布。（操作員指令）

We would like to clarify that any statements made during this conference regarding the company's business outlook projections and financial goals constitute the beliefs and assumptions of the company. These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of performance as they involve risks and uncertainties and therefore depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors should understand that general economic conditions and other operational factors may affect the results expressed in these statements.

我們想澄清的是，本次會議期間有關公司業務前景預測和財務目標的任何聲明均構成公司的信念和假設。這些前瞻性陳述並非對績效的保證，因為它們涉及風險和不確定性，因此取決於可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。投資人應該明白，一般經濟狀況和其他營運因素可能會影響這些聲明中表達的結果。

We will now turn the floor over to Mr. Ivan Monteiro.

我們現在將發言權交給伊凡·蒙泰羅先生。

A good day to all of you. And we would like to thank you for your participation in our earnings call for 2024. The privatization of Eletrobras was approved in the Chamber and the House of Senators after one year of discussion. This is a framework that will lead to the new transformation phase of Eletrobras. Now, to manage a company with excellent performance means that the management has to be adequate, have discipline, and have a focus on discipline.

祝大家有個美好的一天。我們感謝您參加我們的 2024 年收益電話會議。經過一年的討論，Eletrobras 的私有化方案在眾議院和參議院都獲得批准。這個框架將引領巴西電力進入新的轉型階段。現在，要管理一家業績優異的公司，就意味著管理要到位、要有紀律、要注重紀律。

We define the client as the person that gives trust to our work. We have to be better than competitors and service the expectations of our stakeholders. We work in generation and transmission, and Eletrobras cannot fail the security of people, our own people, third parties. The environment as a priority means that we have implemented a trajectory of strong growth for generation and transmission, actively participating in all of the auctions.

我們將客戶定義為信任我們工作的人。我們必須比競爭對手做得更好並滿足利害關係人的期望。我們從事發電和輸電工作，Eletrobras 不能辜負人民的安全，包括我們自己的人民和第三方的安全。將環境作為優先事項意味著我們實施了發電和輸電強勁成長的軌跡，並積極參與所有拍賣。

Now, we have thousands of equipment distributed throughout Brazil. And we use artificial intelligence and others. Now we have ever-growing availability of our assets for generation and transmission. And we have begun to focus on their operations, following up on possible climatic events to face the new reality of the Brazilian electrical sector. And to add thousands of new consumers in the free market, we have created energy solutions for this set of new customers. This is a process that has been implemented and is undergoing enhancement.

現在，我們有數千台設備分佈在巴西各地。我們也使用人工智慧和其他智慧。現在我們擁有的發電和輸電資產的可用性不斷增長。我們已經開始關注他們的運營，追蹤可能出現的氣候事件，以應對巴西電力產業的新現實。為了在自由市場中增加數千名新消費者，我們為這群新客戶創造了能源解決方案。這項流程已實施並正在加強。

In 2025, we will be delivering our wind farm and out of Boa Vista in the second half of the year with more than one decade of delay. Now we have an evolution of our liabilities and we have implemented a new policy which has allowed us a continuous reduction of this liability.

2025 年，我們將在下半年交付風電場並離開博阿維斯塔，這比原計劃晚了十年以上。現在我們的負債情況發生了變化，我們實施了一項新政策，這使我們能夠不斷減少負債。

Now we have put all of the companies under the umbrella of good governance and we're working with adequate and competent professionals that work in the executive board and the board whenever necessary. The purchase and sale actions are under the work of the holding exclusively. And of course, they have to be adequate with the return on our capital.

現在，我們已將所有公司置於良好治理的保護傘之下，並在必要時在執行委員會和董事會中聘用足夠且稱職的專業人員。購買和銷售活動完全由控股公司負責。當然，它們必須足以滿足我們的資本回報。

Now the work that we carried out in furnace clearly points out to this. We no longer want to work in Rio de Janeiro. In the conciliation process, we will be able to better forecast our cash flow and the signature of the collective bargaining agreement includes all of our employees and is linked to Eletrobras' financial performance with salaries that are matching what we see in the market. And the distribution of dividends was only possible thanks to the enhancements we implemented throughout the company. We have BRL 32 billion with a reduction of financial cost associated because of the new geopolitical reality.

現在我們在爐中進行的工作明確地指出了這一點。我們不再想在裡約熱內盧工作。在調解過程中，我們將能夠更好地預測我們的現金流，集體談判協議的簽署包括我們所有的員工，並與 Eletrobras 的財務表現掛鉤，工資與我們在市場上看到的一致。而股利的分配只有透過我們在整個公司範圍內實施的改進才有可能實現。由於新的地緣政治現實，我們的財務成本減少了 320 億雷亞爾。

We have made adjustments in our liquidity. All of the present and future investment programs will now be carried out with greater freedom. We hired 2,100 new professionals that brings in new diversity to our company. This shows you the reality of Eletrobras as a new employer. We have a great deal to do. And we truly believe that we will reach a new level of service demanded by regulators and our customers. Now this record payout of dividends is a response we give to our shareholders. We go through small shareholders as well as more than 300,000 individual persons that have invested in Eletrobras.

我們對流動性做出了調整。所有現在和將來的投資計劃現在都將更加自由地實施。我們僱用了 2,100 名新專業人員，為公司帶來了新的多樣性。這向您展示了 Eletrobras 作為新雇主的現實情況。我們還有很多事情要做。我們堅信我們將達到監管機構和客戶所要求的全新服務水準。現在創紀錄的股利是我們對股東的回應。我們了解了小股東以及投資 Eletrobras 的 30 萬多名個人投資者的情況。

I would now give the floor to our CFO who will speak in detail about our results.

現在，我請我們的財務長詳細介紹我們的業績。

Now, let's follow our agenda. We're going to first of all go through the highlights, then speak about our operating performance, and finally, the financial performance on slide number 5, which are the great highlights. First of all, client focus, and we will speak about the transformation we have undergone in the last 2.5 years. We're going to speak about our prudent financial management where we are allocating capital, a bit about our ESG agenda, and finally speak about the transformation that has taken place in the energy market.

現在，讓我們按照議程進行。我們先來回顧一下重點，然後談談我們的營運業績，最後是第 5 張投影片上的財務業績，這些都是亮點。首先，我們以客戶為中心，談談過去兩年半我們經歷的轉變。我們將談論我們在分配資本方面的審慎財務管理，以及我們的 ESG 議程，最後談談能源市場的轉變。

On slide number 2, we have reached 700 free energy customers. This, thanks to a structure that we have implemented in our trading area, centralizing the process, expanding capillarity to represent the customers efficiently as enhancing robust processes for credit and market risk management and also establishing trading guidelines and commercialization pay for the amount of energy that we still have for commercialization. All of this with a complete portfolio of energy solutions and a focus on the energy trading in the free market.

在第二張投影片上，我們已經接觸到 700 位免費能源客戶。這要歸功於我們在交易領域實施的結構，該結構集中了流程，擴大了毛細血管作用，從而有效地代表客戶，增強了信貸和市場風險管理的強大流程，並建立了交易指南和商業化支付了我們仍用於商業化的能量。所有這些都透過完整的能源解決方案組合和對自由市場能源交易的關注來實現。

On slide number 7, as part of the transformation agenda, we show you our operational costs that is reducing once again. We have gotten to BRL6.784 billions in 2024. And in terms of employees, 7,700. And once again there is a trend for a further reduction. This has been a consistent reduction of our PMSO costs. But alongside with this, we also hired 2,100 new employees in this restructuring process. An important point that is part of this cultural transformation. It is to unify all of the collective bargaining agreements in the company across all bases. It is important going forward. And finally, employee compensation linked to the company performance and aligned with market standards.

在第 7 張投影片上，作為轉型議程的一部分，我們向您展示了我們的營運成本再次降低。到 2024 年，我們的營收將達到 67.84 億雷亞爾。員工人數為 7,700 人。並且再次呈現進一步減少的趨勢。這使得我們的 PMSO 成本持續降低。但同時，我們也在這次重整過程中僱用了 2,100 名新員工。這是文化轉型的一個重要部分。它是為了統一公司各個基地的所有集體談判協議。這對於未來發展十分重要。最後，員工薪酬與公司業績掛鉤並與市場標準保持一致。

On slide number 8, in the transformation of liability management, what do we have? Once again, a reduction of the provision for compulsory loan inventory. Since the privatization, there has been a reduction of 50%. We began with BRL26 billion and ended the year with BRL13.6 billion. Along with these court settlements, we're also working with possible and remote causes of BRL8.2 billion.

在第 8 張投影片中，在負債管理轉型方面，我們有什麼？再次，減少強制貸款庫存的撥備。自私有化以來，這一數字已減少了50%。我們的年初資金為 260 億雷亞爾，年末則為 136 億雷亞爾。除了這些法庭和解外，我們還在努力解決 82 億巴西雷亞爾的可能原因和間接原因。

On the following slide, we have spoken little about it, but we do remark on this, we have BRL32 billions invested in several assets in (inaudible), Jirau, and several other companies. And throughout time, we have enhanced this management. We have centralized the shareholding management in a single area. We're actively working on risk management and a return on investment for each investment. We are optimizing this equity portfolio through time, which is what you see to the right, with divestments representing BRL15 billion, acquisitions of $5.7 billion, and using technical criteria for selecting governance body members.

在下一張幻燈片中，我們對此談論甚少，但我們確實對此進行了評論，我們在（聽不清楚）、Jirau 和其他幾家公司的多項資產上投資了 320 億雷亞爾。隨著時間的推移，我們不斷加強這種管理。我們將股權管理集中在一個單一區域。我們正在積極致力於每項投資的風險管理和投資回報。我們正在隨著時間的推移優化這個股票投資組合，也就是您在右側看到的，其中撤資總額為 150 億雷亞爾，收購總額為 57 億美元，並使用技術標準來選擇治理機構成員。

On the following slide, Ivan has already mentioned, we raised BRL32 billion from a Brazilian company last year which gives us enormous financial solidity. And we were able to declare those BRL4 billion in dividend referring to the payout for 2024. Now this gross debt of 75.6% represents four years of funding. Now we are working with funders. We're lengthening our debt maturity that was almost one year and cash to pay out this debt that was one year in the year of privatization along with this upgrade of the Standard and Poor's credit rating.

在下一張幻燈片中，Ivan 已經提到，去年我們從一家巴西公司籌集了 320 億雷亞爾，這給了我們巨大的財務穩定性。並且，我們可以宣布派發 40 億雷亞爾的股息，參考 2024 年的股利。現在這75.6%的總債務代表了四年的融資。現在我們正在與資助者合作。隨著標準普爾信用評級的提升，我們將債務期限延長近一年，並以現金償還私有化當年的一年債務。

When it comes to our investment capacity, here you see the investments that have grown since the privatization. In the bars, I would like to highlight the green and the blue bars which represent investments in the streamlining of our plans to guarantee energy safety and reinforcement and enhancement with the same purpose, of course. Before, we invested a little more than BRL1 billion in transmission and in generation. We are now investing in the sum of both BRL6 billion approximately, and this trend is going forward in this transformation process.

說到我們的投資能力，您可以看到自私有化以來投資的成長。在長條圖中，我想強調綠色和藍色長條圖，它們代表著對精簡計畫的投資，以確保能源安全，當然，也代表著出於同樣目的的加強和增強。之前，我們在輸電和發電方面的投資略高於10億雷亞爾。我們目前對兩項投資總計約 60 億雷亞爾，這一趨勢正在轉型過程中繼續向前發展。

To the right, you see some of our key investments that we continue to make. We are concluding the Coxilha Negra project, a wind farm in the south; the connection with the last state and isolated state in the country which is Roraima Transnorte Energia with investment of BRL3.3 billion; and the enhancement of transportation of energy from Itaipu, revitalizing the HVDC of the line.

在右側，您可以看到我們正在繼續進行的一些關鍵投資。我們正在完成南部風電場 Coxilha Negra 專案；與該國最後一個州和孤立州羅賴馬州北線能源 (Roraima Transnorte Energia) 的連接，投資額為 33 億雷亞爾；並加強伊泰普的能源輸送，重振該線路的高壓直流輸電。

On slide number 12, we speak a bit about this growth agenda through auctions. For many years, the company was forbidden from participating in auctions for not delivering the projects. In 2000, in the gray bars, this was the period where we didn't want to participate or could not. In 2020, we did participate but we're not successful with the privatization. We bid one line with a small investment of BRL100 million in 2023. We were somewhat more bold. We had BRL37 million in CapEx. And in 2024, the great winners of the auction, reaching a CapEx of BRL5.6 billion which means that the investments made today planned for auctions or for investment and reinforcement and enhancement in generation and transmission reached BRL14 billion with an annual revenue of BRL6.4 billion.

在投影片 12 上，我們透過拍賣稍微討論了這項成長議程。多年來，該公司因未能交付項目而被禁止參加拍賣。2000 年，灰色條表示我們不想參與或不能參與的時期。2020年，我們確實參與了，但私有化並不成功。我們將於 2023 年競標一條生產線，投資額為 1 億雷亞爾。我們稍微大膽一點。我們的資本支出為3700萬巴西雷亞爾。而在2024年，拍賣的大贏家將達到56億雷亞爾的資本支出，這意味著今天計劃用於拍賣或投資以及發電和輸電方面的加強和改進的投資將達到140億雷亞爾，年收入為64億雷亞爾。

On slide 13, this was already mentioned by Ivan in agenda of innovation and technology that we are implementing to become better and to reduce risks in the operation. These are strong investments with a focus on resiliency and operational efficiency.

在第 13 張幻燈片中，Ivan 已經在創新和技術議程中提到了這一點，我們正在實施這些議程，以變得更好並降低營運風險。這些都是強而有力的投資，重點是彈性和營運效率。

To the right at the top, we have the Atmos ystem that helps us understand meteorological models and to prepare for readiness and enhance our readiness in the case of extreme events. And below, nowadays, we already have almost 90,000 assets that are monitored with artificial intelligence IoT significantly improving the predictability of the operation of this equipment.

右上方是 Atmos 系統，它可以幫助我們了解氣像模型，並做好準備，並提高我們在極端事件發生時的應對能力。如今，我們已經有近 9 萬項資產受到人工智慧物聯網的監控，大大提高了這些設備運作的可預測性。

On slide 14, we speak a bit more about our ESG agenda. We have validated our goals for net zero 2030. Now, the standards and guidelines are based on SBTi. This is very important. For the first time, we approved the company's first human rights policy, a very important achievement.

在幻燈片 14 上，我們進一步討論了我們的 ESG 議程。我們已經確認了2030年淨零排放的目標。現在，標準和指南都是基於SBTi。這非常重要。我們首次批准了公司第一份人權政策，這是一個非常重要的成就。

To the right, we show you two examples of how the company has contributed to the decarbonization agenda. First, we have a pilot plant with green hydrogen where we have spent BRL125 million for a production of 5.7 tonnes of green hydrogen. And below, other projects we are working on, for example, gaining a better understanding of how the battery hybrid system operates to enhance the service offered throughout our network as a whole.

右側我們向您展示了該公司為脫碳議程做出貢獻的兩個例子。首先，我們有一個綠色氫氣試驗工廠，我們花了 1.25 億雷亞爾生產了 5.7 噸綠色氫氣。以下是我們正在進行的其他項目，例如，更了解電池混合動力系統如何運行，以增強我們整個網路提供的服務。

On slide 15, I would like to refer to what is happening in the energy market. Of course, this is of the utmost importance. If we look at our two main segments, the path lies in generation of the hydro plants. And of course, this impacts both segments considerably. What is important here when we look at this graph in the graph above, we see the fluctuation of the energy spot price corrected by inflation since 2010 until more recent dates. What is interesting to observe is that this price was never stable for a simple reason. We have a system that is eminently hydroelectrial, hydrothermal, but we can't say this anymore because of the intermittent points that we have had in recent years. Now, when the period was eminently hydrothermal, we still had a great deal of fluctuation. Now, if we consider the more recent periods where we have more renewable energy, the average price in this period reached BRL330 per megawatt hour, and the standard deviation is BRL330 and the mean BRL331.

在第 15 張投影片上，我想談談能源市場正在發生的事情。當然，這是至關重要的。如果我們看一下我們的兩個主要部分，路徑在於水力發電廠的發電。當然，這對兩個部分都會產生很大的影響。當我們查看上圖時，重要的是，我們看到自 2010 年至今能源現貨價格的波動已根據通貨膨脹進行了調整。有趣的是，由於一個簡單的原因，這個價格從未穩定過。我們有一個顯著的水力發電和熱力發電系統，但是由於近年來出現的間歇性問題，我們不能再這樣說了。現在，當該時期處於明顯的熱液時期時，我們仍然會遇到很大的波動。現在，如果我們考慮最近可再生能源較多的時期，這段期間的平均價格達到每兆瓦時 330 巴西雷亞爾，標準差為 330 巴西雷亞爾，平均值為 331 巴西雷亞爾。

So below you see the period of January '22 to July '24, which in our opinion was an atypical period. What is normal is the price fluctuation. Why was it below during this period? In the graph below, you can see what happened. The intermittent renewables were little representative in 2023. And this matrix evolved in such a way that in 2024, we had 36%. It is presently at 37%. So along with the excellent rainfall we had during the period, this generated a false impression. There was a drop during the period. But in our vision, it's more interesting to look at the medium and average at the top of the graph that we showed you and the standard deviation than this period as a reference going forward.

下面您可以看到 2022 年 1 月至 2024 年 7 月期間的情況，我們認為這是一個非典型時期。價格波動是正常的。為什麼這個期間是低於這個水準？在下圖中，您可以看到發生了什麼。2023 年間歇性再生能源的代表性不強。這個矩陣的演變方式是，到 2024 年，我們將達到 36%。目前該比例為 37%。因此，加上這段時期降雨充沛，產生了錯誤的印象。期間有所下降。但在我們的願景中，查看我們向您展示的圖表頂部的中位數和平均值以及標準差比將此時期作為未來參考更有趣。

Besides this, this vision is backed up by what we call AR, the maximum amount of reservoirs that we have in energy equivalents in megawatts. In 2010, this represented 5.2 in demand. And in 2024, we are at 3.7. And for more than a decade, we haven't had a hydroelectric plant with a reservoir. So the trend is that these levels will be ever lower and that volatility would increase. Now how did this impact the market? On slide 16, between 2016 until 2024, as I mentioned, for 2.5 years, we had a floor price, BRL60, BRL66. And the market agents stated that the price was low.

除此之外，這個願景得到了我們所說的 AR 的支持，即我們擁有的以兆瓦為單位的最大能量當量儲量。2010年，需求量為5.2。到 2024 年，這一數字將達到 3.7。十多年來，我們還沒有蓋過一座有水庫的水力發電廠。因此趨勢是這些水平將越來越低，波動性將會增加。那麼這對市場有何影響？在第 16 張投影片中，正如我所提到的，從 2016 年到 2024 年，在 2.5 年的時間裡，我們的底價是 60 巴西雷亞爾、66 巴西雷亞爾。且市場代理商均表示價格較低。

And if we look at this graph above, what do we have? At the beginning of 2024, we had a reservoir, relatively well behaved, 65%, 71%. And in the rainfall period which is 59%, well below the historical average. If you look at the prices practiced for energy for the year 2025-2026, we did not foresee any crisis or expectation that there would be an increase. The things that could make prices rise, quite the contrary in 2025, where standard BRL65.

如果我們看一下上面這張圖表，我們發現了什麼？到2024年初，我們的水庫運作狀況相對較好，分別為65%、71%。降雨期降雨量為59%，遠低於歷史平均值。如果您查看 2025-2026 年的能源價格，我們沒有預見到任何危機或價格上漲的預期。可能導致價格上漲的因素恰恰相反，到 2025 年，標準價格將達到 65 巴西雷亞爾。

What happened one year later, the reservoir improved, reaching 71% at the end of February. And the rainy period in Brazil was excellent, a historical average of 90%, 98%. And that same price one year before was BRL155 for 2026. This price presently is being negotiated at BRL200 or above.

一年後的情況有所好轉，水庫蓄水量於2月底達到71%。巴西的降雨量非常好，達到了歷史平均值的 90% 到 98%。而一年前，2026 年的價格為 155 巴西雷亞爾。目前該價格協商為200巴西雷亞爾或以上。

Therefore, that phase that we observed at the end of June of 2024 when prices began to rise, because this is a volatile product, is now being translated into price as well.

因此，我們在 2024 年 6 月底觀察到的價格開始上漲的階段，因為這是一種波動性產品，現在也轉化為價格。

All of this to tell you that on slide 17, this has to be part of our strategy, our vision, our capital allocation, and I'm referring this for investments and growth and integrity and security of our assets. We're living in an environment that will tend to become ever more volatile. Why? Because the reservoirs are shrinking. We have intermittent sources being used more steadily. In a scenario like this one, we truly have to act in a more conservative fashion when analyzing the flows going forward.

所有這些都告訴您，在第 17 頁的投影片上，這必須成為我們策略、願景、資本配置的一部分，我指的是投資、成長、資產的完整性和安全性。我們生活的環境將會變得越來越不穩定。為什麼？因為水庫水位正在萎縮。我們對間歇性能源的使用更加穩定。在這種情況下，我們在分析未來的流量時確實必須採取更保守的行動。

And when we look at our two segments, what do we have? In transmission, nothing will change. It will be as it always was. It is the more predictable one in the Brazilian market. We could work with a higher leverage. But in generation, for all of that energy we have contracted, we need to base ourselves on conservative assumptions. And in the presentation, we show you mismatches that did not exist in the past. We call this a supermarket price. Prices we see in the Southeast and the north because formerly, there was a single price BRL10, BRL20, BRL30, now reaching now BRL300 of difference in the month of March. So we have to be more conservative and work with a lower leverage considering the uncertainty we are dealing with.

當我們審視這兩個部分時，我們發現了什麼？在傳輸過程中，什麼都不會改變。一切將如往常一樣。這是巴西市場上比較可預測的一個。我們可以利用更高的槓桿。但在發電過程中，對於我們所簽署的所有能源，我們都需要以保守的假設為基礎。在演示中，我們向您展示了過去不存在的不匹配。我們稱之為超市價格。我們看到東南部和北部的價格差異，因為以前單一的價格分別為 10 巴西雷亞爾、20 巴西雷亞爾、30 巴西雷亞爾，而 3 月份的價格差異已達到 300 巴西雷亞爾。因此，考慮到我們面臨的不確定性，我們必須更加保守，並使用較低的槓桿。

Once we define our revenues, we're quite calm that the cost trajectory that we had in 2023 will continue on the right path where we would allocate capital first where it is mandatory. We're going to invest in the streamlining of the plants and maintenance. And on the part of transmission and reinforcements and improvements, to improve the security of our assets and the energy security of the country.

一旦我們確定了我們的收入，我們就會非常平靜，2023 年的成本軌跡將繼續沿著正確的軌道運行，我們將在強制性要求下首先分配資本。我們將對工廠的精簡和維護進行投資。在傳輸、加固和改進方面，提高我們資產的安全和國家的能源安全。

On the other hand, whenever we see how to allocate capital, we're thinking of the medium term because we know that in 2020, A, the RPCA will end and everything will be more risky in terms of generation, so we have to focus on the midterm. Now we have an agenda to optimize our portfolio. We could have capital surplus or we could invest for an improvement. Now after all of this, we're going to have a balance between shareholder remuneration through dividends or otherwise or investments in Greenfield or M&As. So our decision for dividends is set.

另一方面，每當我們看到如何分配資本時，我們都會考慮中期，因為我們知道在 2020 年，A，RPCA 將結束，從發電方面來看，一切都將變得更加危險，所以我們必須關注中期。現在我們有一個優化投資組合的議程。我們可以有資本盈餘，也可以進行投資以進行改善。現在，在完成所有這些之後，我們將透過股息或其他方式與對綠地或併購的投資在股東報酬之間取得平衡。所以我們的股利決定已經確定了。

On slide 18, here, we analyze not only the results of an exceptional year for the company. But because we are preparing for this scenario with a very prudent financial management, we were able to conclude all of the negotiations to have comfort in the trajectory of costs throughout time. And an improvement in the pricing, especially in the short term for energy in 2025-2026 when there is greater liquidity when negotiating energy, saying under these conditions, we can pay more than the minimum BRL2.5 million to get to BRL4 million.

在第 18 張投影片中，我們不僅分析了公司這一特殊年份的表現。但是，由於我們以非常審慎的財務管理為這種情況做好了準備，我們能夠完成所有談判，並對整個過程中的成本變化趨勢感到放心。定價也會有所改善，特別是在 2025-2026 年短期內，屆時能源談判的流動性將更大，在這種情況下，我們可以支付超過最低 250 萬雷亞爾的價格，達到 400 萬雷亞爾。

On dividend, now, this is the dividend proposal for the company on slide 20. Very quickly, we will speak about our energy balance. We have always said that while the prices are at levels that we understand to be good and when we negotiate energy, of course, we want to negotiate our capacity. And the (inaudible) to show that yes, we are very active in this scenario with customers reaching BRL751 million of free contracting environment.

關於股息，現在，這是幻燈片 20 上的公司股息提案。很快，我們將討論我們的能量平衡。我們一直說，只要價格處於我們認為好的水平，當我們談判能源時，我們當然希望談判我們的產能。並且（聽不清楚）表明，是的，我們在這種情況下非常活躍，客戶達到了 7.51 億巴西雷亞爾的自由簽約環境。

Going on to slide 22, regarding a sound financial performance. Our recurring EBITDA, BRL5.100 million. And here, we have two important factors. The first relating to cost. We have always said that PMSO had stronger seasonality in the fourh quarter. This time was not different. But on the next slide, we will speak about the cost of the year as a trajectory. And secondly, it is very difficult to make a quarterly projection of results in this highly volatile environment of the energy market.

繼續看第 22 張投影片，內容涉及良好的財務表現。我們的經常性 EBITDA 為 51 億巴西雷亞爾。這裡有兩個重要因素。第一個與成本有關。我們一直說PMSO在第四季有更強的季節性。這次也不例外。但在下一張投影片中，我們將討論今年的成本軌跡。其次，在能源市場高度不穩定的環境下，很難對季度業績做出預測。

We know that, on our side, we're always being very prudent to avoid exposures, the supermarket exposures, or other types of exposures. And of course, there are some things that are very difficult to understand, especially when you focus on the quarter of generation.

我們知道，我們一直非常謹慎地避免曝光，超市曝光或其他類型的曝光。當然，有些事情很難理解，尤其是當你專注於發電的四分之一時。

When it comes to net income, for some quarters, we will have fluctuations given the restructuring and the assets that we still have in our accountability and that we want to optimize through time, of course, they will have an impact. What is important here. Is to continue our improvement and clean out our balance. Here, we speak about the PMSO adaptation. As I mentioned, there is some seasonality and this continuous improvement of cost reduction and we said that the trend was towards a greater reduction focusing on global cost for the year.

就淨收入而言，在某些季度，考慮到重組和我們仍在承擔責任的資產，我們會出現波動，我們希望隨著時間的推移進行優化，當然，它們會產生影響。這裡什麼是重要的。是為了繼續我們的改進並清理我們的平衡。在這裡，我們談論 PMSO 適應性。正如我所提到的，成本降低存在一些季節性，而且成本降低的持續改善，我們說趨勢是朝著更大幅度的削減方向發展，重點關注全年的全球成本。

On slide 24, our operating provisions. This is our last slide here. As I said, there's still a great deal of things changing. In the company, we have a very complex balance. We're very gradually cleaning up. We had reversions that were carried out. And after creating a new way of analyzing our assets is to -- well, we treat all of the plants as if they were a single plant because that's how we operate the plant. We don't operate asset by asset. We operate as a whole. And this is a different way, of course, of looking at things from a financial viewpoint to onerous contracts. And this is a way of looking at these contracts.

第 24 頁是我們的營運規定。這是我們這裡的最後一張投影片。正如我所說，仍有許多事情正在改變。在公司裡，我們有一個非常複雜的平衡。我們正在非常緩慢地進行清理。我們已經進行了復原。在創建了一種分析資產的新方法之後，我們將所有工廠視為一個工廠，因為這就是我們運作工廠的方式。我們不會逐項資產地進行操作。我們以整體方式運作。當然，這是從財務角度看待繁重合約的不同方式。這是看待這些合約的一種方式。

And finally, in the case of the measurement at fair value of assets, in 2023, we had in course a negotiation for the sale of our thermal plan. We had already negotiated broadly for the sale of the asset of Santa Cruz, but it did not materialize very well.

最後，在以資產公允價值計量的情況下，2023 年，我們正在就出售熱力計劃進行談判。我們已經就出售聖克魯斯資產進行了廣泛談判，但結果並不理想。

Now with this, we can now go on to the question-and-answer session. Thank you.

現在，我們可以進入問答環節。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Now, we will now go on to the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

現在我們進入問答環節。（操作員指令）

Daniel Travitzky, Safra.

丹尼爾·特拉維茨基，薩夫拉。

Good morning, everybody. Thank you for taking the questions. We have two questions. The first referring to the agreement or a pre-agreement with the federal government. And I would like to gain an understanding of the coming steps if we should reach a final agreement and if you could refer to the terms you have pre-agreed upon. The second question refers to the trading of energy. When we look at your energy balance, we see trading presented in bands and we can see that the bands have increased. Now which is the liquidity of the energy sold during the quarter, if you could refer to the energy prices you're looking at, and if that difference in some markets is a reason of concern? These are our two questions. Thank you very much.

大家早安。感謝您回答這些問題。我們有兩個問題。第一個是指與聯邦政府達成的協議或預先協議。如果我們達成最終協議，我希望了解接下來的步驟，並且您可以參考您們預先商定的條款。第二個問題是關於能源交易的。當我們查看您的能量平衡時，我們會看到交易呈現波段形式，我們可以看到波段增加。現在，本季銷售的能源的流動性是多少，您是否可以參考您所關注的能源價格，以及某些市場的差異是否是令人擔憂的原因？這是我們的兩個問題。非常感謝。

Good morning, Daniel. Thank you for the question. Now regarding the agreement related to (inaudible), as disclosed, we are presently debating the wording of this term of conciliation. The intention is to conclude this in the coming fortnight to convene an extraordinary assembly where the shareholders will comment on the terms of this agreement. We want to hold this assembly on the same date as an ordinary assembly. It of course depends on concluding the drafting. Once we hold the extraordinary assembly, once the terms are approved by their shareholders, this will be submitted for approval at the Supreme Court. And there is no period expected for this.

早上好，丹尼爾。感謝您的提問。現在關於與（聽不清楚）相關的協議，正如所披露的，我們目前正在討論該調解條款的措辭。計劃在未來兩週內完成此任務並召開特別大會，股東將在會上對該協議的條款發表評論。我們希望這場集會與普通集會在同一天舉行。這當然取決於起草工作的完成。一旦我們召開特別大會，一旦條款獲得股東批准，就會提交最高法院批准。並且預計此過程不會持續太長時間。

Now regarding the topic of trading, Daniel, in the last quarter, the market liquidity was good, of course. It's the end of the year. There's always a renewal of contracts. Consumers will begin to analyze the portfolios and to close contracts for subsequent years. And we also had the auction of the regulated market. We sold 350 megawatts. That's this auction held in December. Regarding the portfolio and the price, (inaudible) as he is the portfolio and pricing manager in the company and has the fundamentals and can perhaps answer your question.

現在關於交易的話題，丹尼爾，在上個季度，市場流動性當然是好的。已經是年底了。合約總是會續約的。消費者將開始分析投資組合併簽訂後續幾年的合約。我們也進行了受監管市場的拍賣。我們賣出了350兆瓦。這就是 12 月舉行的拍賣會。關於投資組合和價格，（聽不清楚）他是公司的投資組合和定價經理，了解基本情況，也許可以回答你的問題。

Good morning, Daniel. Now, Mr. Haiama spoke about the greater volatility that we see ever present in the sector for several reasons. Variations in demand, a flow of heat waves, and a growing use of intermittent sources in our matrix which means a lower level of storage up for the sector when compared to the total demand. Now this set of factors brings about volatility from this year.

早上好，丹尼爾。現在，海馬先生談到了我們看到的該行業因多種原因而出現的更大波動性。需求的變化、熱浪的流動以及矩陣中間歇性能源的使用不斷增加，這意味著與總需求相比，該產業的儲存水準較低。現在這一系列因素從今年開始帶來了波動。

To last year, we had an enhancement, a computation model working with risk aversion, and we have the costs and operations of the system. Now this model nowadays better reflects the cost of operation of the system because it brought about price variations that we had as a vision the previous year.

到去年，我們有了一個增強版，一個用於風險規避的計算模型，並且我們有了系統的成本和營運。現在，這個模型更好地反映了系統的營運成本，因為它帶來了我們去年設想的價格變化。

We're working with a more evolved system, something that is closer to the real cost of operating the system. And as we have resources in all of the supermarkets, 50% of our sources in the south and in the southeast, (inaudible) in the northeast and one-fourth in the northern market when we carry out portfolio management. Of course, we work with estimates and mismatch from the market for each different period of the year. In March and April and May, there is a considerable mismatch for the north and north. Eastern markets visa vis the southeast. This will tend to be reduced and the north will be closer to the southeastern market. In the northeast, there is still mismatch because of the large amount of sun and wind energy in that region. And using the portfolio, we look at the different scenarios we have for the company seeking the best possible result.

我們正在使用一個更完善的系統，它更接近系統運作的實際成本。由於我們在所有超市都有資源，當我們進行投資組合管理時，50％的資源在南部和東南部，（聽不清楚）在東北部，四分之一在北方市場。當然，我們會根據一年中每個不同時期的市場估計值和不匹配情況進行工作。三月和四月、五月，北北差距明顯。東部市場與東南部市場比較。這一趨勢將會減少，北方將會更接近東南市場。在東北地區，由於該地區太陽能和風能資源豐富，因此仍然存在不匹配的情況。透過利用投資組合，我們可以研究公司面臨的不同情況，以尋求最好的結果。

Bruno Amorim, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的布魯諾·阿莫林。

Thank you and a good day to all of you. I have two questions. First, referring to investments and reinforcement and improvement. You delivered BRL3 million of investments this year. What can we expect for coming years from the outlook of how prepared the company is to make investments in people and processes? And also in terms of how this will be received by the regulator, will they approve more investment for coming years? The second question refers to PMS so you reported levels above that over the last quarter. I understand their seasonality in this figure. Could you indicate what we can expect going forward? I know that you don't give guidance but which would be a recurrent level going forward?

謝謝大家並祝大家有愉快的一天。我有兩個問題。第一，指投入和鞏固改進。您今年的投資額為300萬巴西雷亞爾。從公司對人才和流程的投資準備程度來看，我們對未來幾年可以有何期待？此外，監管機構對此將作何反應，他們會批准未來幾年的更多投資嗎？第二個問題涉及 PMS，因此您報告的上個季度的水平高於該水平。我從這個數字中了解了它們的季節性。能否透露一下我們對未來的期望？我知道您沒有給予指導，但哪一個會成為未來的常態水平？

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Good morning, Bruno. Thank you for the question. Of course, in the recent past we came out of an investment of BRL1 billion, and it has reached 2024 BRL3.4 billion. It's very difficult to estimate how this will evolve during the years. We have an enormous backlog of investment to be made in a reinforcement and improvement through time. Of course, we will improve. We're speaking of 2027 and going forward. Now more important than involving the figures is to do this correctly. We don't want to increase investments excessively as this could cause risks to execution. But it will always be growing because of this investment backlog in transmission.

早安，布魯諾。感謝您的提問。當然，不久前我們完成了 10 億雷亞爾的投資，2024 年已經達到 34 億雷亞爾。很難估計未來幾年這種情況將會如何發展。我們有大量積壓投資需要隨著時間的推移而加強和改進。當然，我們會改進。我們談論的是 2027 年及以後。現在比涉及數字更重要的是正確地做到這一點。我們不想過度增加投資，因為這可能會帶來執行風險。但由於輸電方面的投資積壓，這一數字將一直成長。

Now the addition of technology that we have underscored makes the quality of the investment more sophisticated. So this is a process that is underway. As Marcelo said, there is a trend for growth. But we have to look at the reality using the best technology available. And this is what we're incorporating gradually in the company.

現在我們強調的技術的加入使得投資的品質更加精細化。這是一個正在進行的過程。正如馬塞洛所說，存在著成長的趨勢。但我們必須利用現有的最佳技術來看待現實。這正是我們在公司中逐步融入的。

Regarding PMS, so yes, there was seasonality, but it is on the drop for 2025. We have a recurrent PMS, so for this year, below BRL6 millions. And the company will attain this figure after the signing of the collective bargaining agreement for all of our employee. We're convinced that the trajectory will be on the fall because of the absorption, the use of new processes, and because of the degree of freedom that we now have to manage the company looking at the outlook of return that is demanded or requested by our shareholders.

關於 PMS，是的，存在季節性，但到 2025 年將會下降。我們有經常性的 PMS，因此今年的收入低於 600 萬巴西雷亞爾。而公司在全體員工簽訂集體談判協議之後，就會達到這個數字。我們確信，由於吸收合併、新流程的使用，以及我們現在根據股東所要求或要求的回報前景來管理公司的自由度，軌跡將會下降。

Fillipe Andrade, Itau BBA.

Fillipe Andrade，伊塔烏 BBA。

Good morning, everybody. Thank you for taking my question. I would like to hear from you as how the company is thinking about the price of 2025 with those supermarkets that you mentioned. If you have been approached by generators located in the northeast and have contracts in the southeast for hedging? If you have appetite for this type of product? And how is the company attempting to protect itself from other trading agents once again because of the volatility that you mentioned.

大家早安。感謝您回答我的問題。我想聽聽您關於公司對於您提到的那些超市 2025 年價格的考慮。如果您已經與位於東北部的發電廠接洽，並且與東南部有對沖合約？您是否對此類產品有興趣？由於您提到的波動性，公司如何再次嘗試保護自己免受其他交易代理商的侵害？

Well, thank you, Felipe. I begin here with President (inaudible) and then Vice President Limp.

好吧，謝謝你，費利佩。我先從總統（聽不清楚）開始，然後是副總統林普。

Well, we're always approached. That's a fact. The topic is the action that we end up adopting. Well, the goal is to protect the company portfolio. And I will answer both of the parts of your question regarding traders. We have zero exposure to all of the defaults that there have been in the market from those traders that are public and well the default situation has been disclosed, and we're monitoring the market very closely regarding generators and traders as well.

嗯，我們總是被接近。這是事實。主題是我們最終採取的行動。嗯，目標是保護公司投資組合。我將回答您關於交易員的兩個問題。我們對市場上公開交易商的所有違約行為均沒有任何敞口，而且違約情況已經披露，我們也在密切監控市場上的發電廠和交易商的情況。

We make sure that we don't have any exposure, as was mentioned before, Yama has implemented a risk methodology against other parties, so we have a robust risk analysis for all of the operations we carry out here regarding the other topic. I will give this to Rodrigo Limp to speak about the supermarket. He manages that.

我們確保沒有任何風險，正如先前提到的，Yama 已經針對其他方實施了風險方法，因此我們對在此針對其他主題執行的所有操作都有強大的風險分析。我將把這個交給 Rodrigo Limp 來談論超市。他做到了。

Thank you, Fellipe, for the question. To reinforce what is said on the previous question, as we have resources in all of the supermarkets, it is possible to carry out a more efficient portfolio management and the risk of mismatch between supermarkets which we have observed very strongly at the end of this for quarter.

感謝費利佩提出這個問題。為了加強上一個問題的回答，由於我們在所有超市都有資源，因此可以進行更有效的投資組合管理，並且我們在本季度末非常強烈地觀察到超市之間不匹配的風險。

We also can see this in the second quarter and of course, we look at the company's global portfolio to have protection to maximize our results even in this scenario of greater volatility, there will be great volatility for '25 and also for 2026 with the prices going up in the second half of the year, especially in the southeast and north supermarkets, and we look at our entire portfolio and assess all possible scenarios of price mismatches.

我們在第二季度也可以看到這一點，當然，我們會查看公司的全球投資組合，以獲得保護，即使在這種波動性更大的情況下也能最大化我們的業績，2025年和2026年都會出現很大的波動，下半年價格會上漲，特別是在東南部和北部的超市，我們會查看我們的整個投資組合，並評估所有可能出現價格不匹配的超市。

Andre Sampaio, Santander.

安德烈桑帕約，桑坦德銀行。

Good morning, everybody. We have two quick questions. One regarding the seasonality of the cost, which you have remarked on, which is your long term strategy. Of course, the goal is to reduce costs. Will you be able to reduce the seasonality going forward? The second question, which is your expectation for the closing of the thermal plant operation? Simply for purposes of a projection.

大家早安。我們有兩個簡單的問題。一個是關於成本的季節性，正如您所提到的，這是您的長期策略。當然，目的是為了降低成本。您將來能減少季節性的影響嗎？第二個問題，您對火力發電廠有何預期？僅僅為了投影的目的。

Thank you, Andre. Well, seasonality happens. It's undesirable and well, you can expect a reduction for this year, but it does happen. And this is one of the remains of the privatization of being a state company for many years, but it will be mitigated. It is not something welcome and we will work during the year to minimize this. Regarding the second question, I will give the floor to another VP.

謝謝你，安德烈。嗯，季節性是有的。這是不可取的，當然，你可以期待今年的情況會有所減少，但這種情況確實發生了。這是多年來國營企業私有化遺留的問題之一，但這種影響將會得到緩解。這不是一件值得歡迎的事情，我們將在今年內努力將這種現象減少到最低限度。關於第二個問題，我將請另一位副總統來回答。

Now the transaction of the thermal plant is ongoing. Several of the conditions have been surpassed especially when we speak about the (inaudible) CAGI, the antitrust agency. This is a very complex negotiation, but we believe that the closing of the operation is very close. Beginning the second quarter, perhaps we will be able to close this. But it follows its natural course in terms of the M&A, well, the time tends to be lengthier.

目前該熱電廠的交易正在進行中。有些條件已經被超越，特別是當我們談到（聽不清楚）CAGI，也就是反壟斷機構。這是一次非常複雜的談判，但我們相信，行動的結束已經非常接近了。從第二季開始，也許我們就能結束這個局面。但就併購而言，它會遵循其自然進程，時間往往會更長。

Antonio Junqueira, BTG.

安東尼奧·朱奎拉，BTG。

Good morning, everybody. Well, we got the message of the dividends. It's not only the magnitude of the payout, but I don't remember which was the last year if there was one when they received dividends, some at the level of the bylaws, and of course this is a very important message that you give out. Now.

大家早安。好了，我們收到了股息的訊息。這不僅是支付的金額，而且我不記得去年他們是否有收到股息，有些是在章程的層面上，當然這是你發出的一個非常重要的訊息。現在。

My question, the methodology, it's very clear how you think, which is important. What I'm missing in this methodology is a number reference. Of course, the company is going to look at cash generation. The company will focus on the midterm, for example, the RBSA that will be lower beginning in 2028, but are you thinking of giving us a number numerical reference to be able to follow up or project dividends in the coming years?

我的問題是方法論，你的想法非常清楚，這很重要。這個方法論中我缺少的是數字參考。當然，公司也會考慮現金創造。公司將專注於中期，例如從 2028 年開始會較低的 RBSA，但您是否想給我們一個數字參考，以便能夠跟進或預測未來幾年的股息？

Well, Good morning. Now, the idea is for remuneration to be quarterly. We had components that were in accordance with predictability and the company, capacity, behavior, contention, containment, all of this has been properly addressed and of course this enhances the way how we look at this discussion.

早安.現在的想法是按季度支付薪酬。我們擁有符合可預測性和公司、能力、行為、爭論、遏制的組成部分，所有這些都得到了妥善解決，當然這增強了我們看待這一討論的方式。

Well, But you have to be careful with some things when it comes to methodology because This could eventually impact the trade strategy of the company, so we're being extremely cautious when we TRY to accommodate this vision and of course for those who are on the outside, I understand the anxiety, the need to know the details, but we don't want to impact our operation. This is very important.

嗯，但是在方法論方面，你必須對一些事情保持謹慎，因為這最終可能會影響公司的貿易策略，所以當我們試圖適應這一願景時，我們會非常謹慎，當然對於那些局外人來說，我理解他們的焦慮，需要了解細節，但我們不想影響我們的運營。這非常重要。

Having said that, Well, through time, things change. Nothing is carved in stone. Nothing remains forever. If we look at both segments, Because in portfolio management, we also have minority participations with an entrance and exit of cash and we're going to simplify this strategy. Now when we look at both segments, what do we have? The transmission sector is hyper predictable and we have a good financial performance. We operated easily. This is not an offense for the more predictable segment in Brazil.

話雖如此，但隨著時間的推移，事情會發生變化。沒有什麼是一成不變的。沒有什麼能永恆存在。如果我們看這兩個部分，因為在投資組合管理中，我們也有少數股權參與，並以現金進入和退出，我們將簡化這一策略。現在，當我們看一下這兩個部分時，我們發現了什麼？輸電產業極易預測，我們的財務表現良好。我們操作起來很輕鬆。對於巴西更可預測的群體來說，這並不是什麼冒犯。

In generation, there's a variable that I cannot mention because of our conservative vision, because of the basic price.

在發電方面，有一個變數我不能提及，因為我們的保守觀點，因為基本價格。

Now, once we have that conservative scenario, once we feel calm when it comes to price, to say that in the generation segment we're going to operate less leverage 3 threesome with a conservative view on prices, I think this is a reasonable parameter. What we cannot do is work with leverage scenario for generation without having anything to give. And working with prices that we deem would be the fair price.

現在，一旦我們有了這種保守的情景，一旦我們對價格感到平靜，可以說在發電領域我們將以保守的價格觀點來運營較少的槓桿3三人組，我認為這是一個合理的參數。我們不能做的是在沒有任何供給的情況下利用槓桿方案進行發電。並採用我們認為公平的價格。

Now, fair price is good if you have an infinite possibility in the market where there's only you there to buy and sell. I don't know if this is helpful at all, but Once again, there are some things that we truly cannot share with you. It would go against the company, whether this will be quarterly or every semester.

現在，如果市場中只有您可以買賣，並且擁有無限的可能性，那麼公平價格就是好的。我不知道這是否有幫助，但再說一次，有些事情我們確實不能與您分享。不管是每季還是每學期，這都會對公司不利。

Well, the semester will be the main cash entry for some time until we recover all of our assets and the cash generation will be very important based on the IPCA. This is not immediate. It will take some time and generation will be very important here, what we are. Proposing to do and we have been debating this for some time, is that every quarter we're going to reassess.

好吧，在我們收回所有資產之前，學期將是一段時間內的主要現金來源，根據 IPCA，現金產生將非常重要。這並不是立即的。這將需要一些時間，而世代相傳在這裡非常重要，這就是我們。我們提出的建議是，每個季度我們都會重新評估，而且我們已經討論了一段時間了。

How we work commercially and if we feel confident in saying, given this situation, we can already create new situations, maintaining the parity of proportion of 1 to 10. Well, we will do that. So we're not interested in retaining cash. This is not interesting.

我們如何在商業上運作，如果我們有信心說，在這種情況下，我們已經可以創造新的情況，保持 1 比 10 的比例。好吧，我們會這麼做。所以我們對於保留現金不感興趣。這沒什麼意義。

There was a graph in our presentation. It was a scale. I don't know if you saw it. It's a scale where there is balance between shareholder remuneration and future investment and future. Investments of course have to be interesting. Otherwise the scale will be imbalanced. We do have to have good shareholder remuneration. Has this helped?

我們的簡報中有一張圖表。它是一個尺度。我不知道你是否看到了。它是股東報酬與未來投資和未來之間平衡的尺度。投資當然必須要有趣。否則，天平就會失衡。我們確實必須為股東帶來良好的報酬。這樣有幫助嗎？

Yes, it has. I have a follow up question. When you look at the company leverage, as the company has CDE, the compulsory loan. What are you thinking about this? How do you use these indicators G4, G3?

是的。我有一個後續問題。當你查看公司槓桿率時，會發現公司有 CDE，也就是強制貸款。您對此有何看法？如何使用這些指標G4，G3？

I believe that you're looking at this for longer than 12 months.

我相信您已經關注此事超過 12 個月了。

Now, what are you including on the side of liabilities?

那麼，負債方麵包括哪些內容呢？

Well, on the part of liabilities, we look at all of the assets and liabilities that can have an impact on our results, not working capital, of course, but Whatever we know will become a cash disbursement or entry into the cash is included in our accounts. Now, besides the gross debt that we have, the financial debt.

好吧，在負債部分，我們會查看所有可能對我們的結果產生影響的資產和負債，當然不是營運資本，但我們知道任何將成為現金支出或進入現金的款項都會包含在我們的帳戶中。現在，我們除了總債務之外，還有金融債務。

We look at our obligations as privatization, CDA, the basins, the hydrographic basins that have to be paid off. Now, compulsory loans that we're negotiating, were we not negotiating them after 50 years, we probably would not be here. We're negotiating them and the intention of the company is to continue to do so. It's an exit on the part of assets. What do we have those escrow deposits, judicial deposits.

我們將我們的義務視為必須償還的私有化、CDA、流域和水文流域。現在，我們正在談判的強制貸款，如果 50 年後我們沒有進行談判，我們可能就不會在這裡了。我們正在進行談判，公司打算繼續這樣做。這是資產部分的退出。我們有那些託管存款和司法存款。

And so on and so forth. Why? Because in Brazil, with the present day interest rate, the project, the cost of the project will be 15% if you consider a minimum spread on that debt, if you're very leveraged structurally, you could go into that snowball scenario. And if you enter that snowball scenario, that proneness for pension to be conservative will increase, and this of course will impact our commercial activity. We're not going to allow that scenario to materialize. So the entire time we look at the global situation.

等等等等。為什麼？因為在巴西，以目前的利率，如果考慮債務的最低利差，該專案的成本將達到 15%，如果結構性槓桿率很高，那麼就會出現滾雪球效應。如果進入這種滾雪球情景，退休金保守的傾向就會增加，當然會影響我們的商業活動。我們不會讓這種情況發生。因此我們始終關注全球情勢。

And we can eliminate specific years where perhaps we could surpass that prudent attitude, but we have to be extremely cautious.

我們可以排除一些特定的年份，在這些年份我們或許可以超越這種謹慎的態度，但我們必須極為謹慎。

With the leverage, the global leverage of the company. Of course. And as you say, the leverage allows you not to have sold energy two years ago when the price was truly very poor.

利用槓桿，利用公司的全球槓桿。當然。正如你所說，槓桿可以讓你不必在兩年前價格非常低的時候出售能源。

Joao Pimentel, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Joao Pimentel。

Good morning, everybody. Thank you for the call. We have two questions. The first, based on what was just remarked, the recovery of the transmission revenue, and part of this is coming through reinforcement and improvement and We see the quantum assets, a transmission asset, Brookfield assets. Are you looking at this asset? Does it make sense, or is the focus of the company is to grow in transmission exclusively through improvement?

大家早安。謝謝您的來電。我們有兩個問題。首先，根據剛才的評論，傳輸收入的恢復，其中一部分是透過加強和改進來實現的，我們看到了量子資產、傳輸資產、布魯克菲爾德資產。您正在查看該資產嗎？這是否有意義，或者公司的重點只是透過改進來實現傳輸方面的成長？

The second question based on a higher cash availability. As part of the agreement, you're not anticipating the CDE and you have positioned yourself to eventually speed up the pace of that payment. Now, How can this become in a strategy to negotiate the compulsory loans because the main causes of the compulsory loan, the most relevant one, the largest agents, all of these have been resolved, and presently this is a fragmented business. Is there a Higher thrust to use this cash availability to create a broader agreement with a smaller counterparts immediately and in a simpler way. These are my two questions.

第二個問題是基於更高的現金可用性。作為協議的一部分，您不會預期 CDE，並且您已準備好最終加快付款速度。現在，這如何成為協商強制貸款的策略，因為強制貸款的主要原因、最相關的原因、最大的代理商，所有這些都已經解決，目前這是一項分散的業務。是否有更高的動機去利用這些現金來立即以更簡單的方式與較小的對手方達成更廣泛的協議。這是我的兩個問題。

Well, thank you, Joao. the Second question, the answer is no. Flexibility and liquidity give us what has already been remarked on, and because of our legal BP, well, we do work with all of these counterparts, but global solutions are not possible. They're different situations. We cannot work with fragmented offers. This would destroy the company.

好吧，謝謝你，若昂。第二個問題，答案是否定的。靈活性和流動性給了我們上面已經提到的東西，而且由於我們的法律 BP，我們確實與所有這些同行合作，但全球解決方案是不可能的。它們是不同的情況。我們不能接受零散的報價。這將會毀掉這家公司。

Now the M&A, well, this is a goal for the company, but mainly focused on simplifying the assets. We spend 2 years with 25 M&A transactions, we focused on simplification. Now looking backwards, we look at opportunities, we look at all the transactions that arise in the market. When it comes to capital allocation.

現在的併購，嗯，這是公司的目標，但主要集中在簡化資產。我們花了兩年時間完成了 25 筆併購交易，我們的重點是簡化。現在回顧過去，我們看到的是機遇，我們看到的是市場上出現的所有交易。當談到資本配置時。

We still think about improvement, we participate in auctions, and of course M&As in transmission that are more attractive. At this moment this would not make sense. So our strategy at present is to continue with M&A's for simplification, to focus on green fields. There are several auctions this year, I believe there are 3 this year in the coming year, so we will begin to invest in green fields that will spearhead our growth.

我們仍然考慮改進，我們參與拍賣，當然還有更具吸引力的傳輸領域的併購。目前，這沒有任何意義。因此，我們目前的策略是繼續進行併購以簡化流程，並專注於綠地。今年有幾場拍賣會，我相信明年會有三場，所以我們將開始投資能帶動我們成長的綠地。

Now, a quick comment regarding to what Elio said. When we look at our transmission segment, and we should divide this into two parts. We're based on contracts we had in 2013 $60 billion in assets for transmission, very similar to what we have in the regulation. And we have to revitalize those assets that presently have been in existence for more than 30 years. There's a high potential for investment in that segment.

現在，就 Elio 所說的話做一點簡短的評論。當我們查看傳輸段時，我們應該將其分為兩部分。根據我們 2013 年簽訂的 600 億美元輸電合同，這與我們的監管規定非常相似。我們必須重振那些已存在30多年的資產。該領域的投資潛力很大。

Now, when it comes to the auction, if you add what we gained in the past and what we gained recently from auctions and our minority stakes, 10% stakes, proportional stakes, we could be one of the largest players simply in the part of auction. With our main asset. This shows you, of course, that Eletrobras transmission is a power and this is what has helped us at all times to undergo turbulence in a very interesting way. So they focus, well, we're going to focus on what we know how to do and have done even better to focus on the auctions, execute our works. And the transmission segment does have enormous attractiveness. It began enormous within the company, whether it was with the auction last year or with the renovations that we had in 2023.

現在，說到拍賣，如果加上我們過去的收益和最近從拍賣中獲得的收益以及我們的少數股權、10％的股權和比例股權，我們可以成為拍賣領域最大的參與者之一。擁有我們的主要資產。當然，這向您展示了 Eletrobras 的傳輸是一種力量，它以一種非常有趣的方式幫助我們始終應對動盪。所以他們集中精力，好吧，我們將集中精力於我們知道如何做的事情，並且做得更好，專注於拍賣，執行我們的工作。而傳輸領域確實具有巨大的吸引力。無論是去年的拍賣，還是 2023 年的翻新，這在公司內部都是一個巨大的開始。

Thank you. The question-and-answer session ends here. We would like to return the floor to Mr. Ivan Monteiro for the company's closing remarks. You have the floor, Mr. Monteiro.

謝謝。問答環節到此結束。我們想將發言權交還給 Ivan Monteiro 先生，請他作公司閉幕詞。請您發言，蒙泰羅先生。

Thank you very much for your attendance. And should you have any questions, please send them to our IR department.

非常感謝您的出席。如果您有任何疑問，請發送給我們的 IR 部門。

Thank you very much. The Eletrobras conference ends here. We thank all of you for your attendance. Have an excellent day.

非常感謝。Eletrobras會議到此結束。我們感謝各位的出席。祝您有個愉快的一天。