Sendas Distribuidora SA (ASAI) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning everyone. And thank you for waiting. Welcome to the earnings call for the third quarter of 2024 at Assai Atacadista. I would like to highlight that if you need simultaneous translation, we have this tool available on our platform. In order to do so, please select the interpretation button through the globe icon on the bottom part of your screen, and choose your language and preference, Portuguese or English.

大家早安。感謝您的等待。歡迎參加 Assai Atacadista 2024 年第三季的財報電話會議。我想強調的是，如果您需要同聲翻譯，我們的平台上提供了這個工具。為此，請透過螢幕底部的地球圖示選擇翻譯按鈕，然後選擇您的語言和偏好，葡萄牙語或英語。

We would like to let you know that this earnings call is going to be available as well as at ir.assai.com.br, where you can already find the earnings release. (Operator Instructions)

我們想讓您知道，本次財報電話會議將在 ir.assai.com.br 上舉行，您可以在 ir.assai.com.br 上找到財報發布。（操作員說明）

We would also like to highlight that the information in this presentation and possible statements that could be performed during the earnings call related to future perspectives in the business, forecasts and operational goals and financial targets that Assai believes are based on assumptions and beliefs of the company's management as well as based on information currently available in the market.

我們還想強調的是，本簡報中的資訊以及在財報電話會議期間可能進行的聲明涉及業務的未來前景、預測、營運目標和財務目標，Assai 認為這些資訊是基於公司的假設和信念。以及基於當前市場上可用的資訊。

Future statements are not a guarantee of performance. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they refer to future events, and therefore, rely on circumstances that could or not occur. Investors must comprehend that economic general conditions, market conditions and other factors operationally can affect the performance of Assai and lead to results that differ materially from those listed in such statements.

未來的陳述並不能保證業績。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們涉及未來事件，因此依賴可能或不會發生的情況。投資者必須了解，經濟總體狀況、市場狀況和其他營運因素可能會影響 Assai 的業績，並導致結果與此類聲明中列出的結果有重大差異。

Now I'll pass the floor on to Gabrielle Helu, the Investor Relations Director at Assai.

現在我將把發言權交給 Assai 的投資者關係總監 Gabrielle Helu。

Hello. Good morning, everyone. Thank you once again for participating in our earnings call for the third quarter. We're going to present the executives that are currently with us on the earnings call. We have our CEO, Belmiro de Gomes; Vitor Faga, the VP for Finances and IR; Anderson Castilho, the Operations VP; Wlamir dos Anjos, our Commercial VP and Logistics; and Sandra Vicari, the People and Management and Sustainability VP.

你好。大家早安。再次感謝您參加我們第三季的財報電話會議。我們將介紹目前參加財報電話會議的高階主管。我們有我們的執行長 Belmiro de Gomes； Vitor Faga，財務與投資者關係副總裁； Anderson Castilho，營運副總裁； Wlamir dos Anjos，我們的商務副總裁和物流；以及人力、管理和永續發展副總裁 Sandra Vicari。

Before we begin the presentation, I'm going to pass the floor to Belmiro for his initial remarks.

在我們開始演示之前，我將請貝爾米羅進行初步發言。

Sorry, I was on mute. Good morning Gabe, and thank you, everyone for your participation today in our earnings call. We're going to share the numbers for the third quarter of '24, as well as our plans and strategies in the company for the moment we're in.

抱歉，我當時處於靜音狀態。早安，加布，感謝大家今天參加我們的財報電話會議。我們將分享 24 年第三季的數據，以及我們目前所在公司的計畫和策略。

I think the third quarter has an important point, because it really sets the scene for a turnaround in the net debt cycle in the company. So it's the first quarter where the company reduces not only the debt from a leverage perspective, but also the nominal value of the debt and a drop of BRL208 million, but that's - BRL18 million sorry, but the last drop in the cycle happened in the fourth quarter last year with seasonality factors. But from now on, we'll keep this trend and this cycle, dropping the level of debt and of course, also the leverage ratio.

我認為第三季有一個重要的點，因為它確實為公司淨債務週期的轉變奠定了基礎。因此，在第一季度，該公司不僅從槓桿角度減少了債務，而且還減少了債務的名義價值，並減少了2.08 億雷亞爾，但那是- 1800 萬雷亞爾，抱歉，但周期的最後一次下降發生在去年第四季有季節性因素。但從現在開始，我們將保持這種趨勢和週期，降低債務水平，當然還有槓桿率。

So I want to thank all of the Assai team, for their work and the numbers we're going to be presenting here in the third quarter. And I want to share the measures we're implementing, to be able to face the scenario with the higher interest rate that we're experiencing at the moment. As I mentioned previously, we had a reduction in the debt of BRL218 million, and today on the October 17.

因此，我要感謝所有 Assai 團隊的工作以及我們將在第三季在這裡展示的數據。我想分享我們正在實施的措施，以便能夠應對目前利率上升的情況。正如我之前提到的，我們在 10 月 17 日的今天減少了 2.18 億雷亞爾的債務。

You probably saw we issued a relevant event reviewing the company's projections for investments in 2025, and the objective was to take on some balanced measures to face the scenario with higher interest rates, due to the company's leverage, but also keep the growth rate in the company, considering the fact that we're still not present in cities and markets that are very important to us.

大家可能看到我們發布了一個相關的活動，回顧了公司2025年的投資預測，目標是採取一些平衡的措施來應對由於公司槓桿而導致的利率上升的情況，同時也將增長率保持在2025年的水平。

And based on the numbers we're going to be presenting up ahead, you'll see the capacity for cash generation, maintenance of the margins and stability in the expenses and especially in the business model that Assai has, which continue to have assertiveness, and acceptance very strongly in the markets where we're present.

根據我們即將提供的數據，您將看到現金產生能力、利潤率維持和支出穩定性，尤其是 Assai 所擁有的商業模式，該模式繼續保持自信，並且在我們所在的市場中得到了非常強烈的接受。

So you can see in the presentation, you have a photograph of a store that's still in the Guarulhos region, a super important region. The store in Pimentas, another region in Guarulhos with over 400,000 inhabitants is still the first store at Assai there in that region.

所以你可以在簡報中看到，你有一張仍然位於瓜魯柳斯地區的商店的照片，這是一個非常重要的地區。位於瓜魯柳斯另一個擁有超過 40 萬居民的地區 Pimentas 的商店仍然是 Assai 在該地區的第一家商店。

So with that, we reached 21 openings in the last 12 months, a net add of another 8% in our total sales area and 4 new stores were delivered now in the third quarter. We should be delivering the 15 stores expected for 2024, and we'll be going over 300 units as our milestone of stores under operation in the month of December with a company that grew with 38 years of existence and all of this growth was always supported by its own cash generation.

因此，我們在過去 12 個月內開設了 21 家新店，總銷售面積又淨增加了 8%，第三季已交付 4 家新店。我們應該在2024 年交付預期的15 家商店，並且我們將在12 月份開設超過300 家商店，作為我們在12 月份運營的商店的里程碑，這家公司已經成立了38 年，所有這些增長都得到了支持透過自己的現金產生。

Assai over this journey ever since 2011 is a company that never received investments. With its own cash generation, it was always able to sustain growth in projects and investments. So now in the third quarter, we have revenue sales going over BRL20 billion, it's an add of BRL1.714 billion compared to the third quarter of last year and the growth in the total store base of 9.3%, and that reaches a milestone of 77.7 million tickets, an important add-on of 1,700,000 tickets compared to the third quarter last year.

從2011年開始走上這條路的Assai是一家從未接受過投資的公司。憑藉自己的現金產生能力，它始終能夠維持專案和投資的成長。所以現在第三季度，我們的銷售收入超過了200億雷亞爾，比去年第三季度增加了17.14億雷亞爾，總門市基數增長了9.3%，達到了一個里程碑7,770 萬張門票，與去年第三季相比增加了1,700,000 張門票。

And if you look at our business model, because we're a company that's not purely retail, 60% of our sales are still done to B2C, but 40% is done to B2B customers. And this kind of customer is split in between resellers, utilizers and food service people, where food service and utilizers represent a more recurring public, but the reseller public is a lot more geared towards price, especially paying on credit.

如果你看看我們的商業模式，因為我們是一家不純粹零售的公司，所以我們60%的銷售額仍然是針對B2C的，但40%是針對B2B客戶的。這類客戶分為經銷商、利用者和食品服務人員，其中食品服務和利用者代表了更頻繁的公眾，但經銷商公眾更注重價格，尤其是賒帳支付。

So the market dynamics can affect this public a little more maybe than the other publics. And that's one of the reasons why the same stores in the quarter has an advance of 2.7%, considering the lower performance in the reseller public that's mostly motivated by price and payment conditions.

因此，市場動態對這個公眾的影響可能比其他公眾更大。考慮到經銷商大眾的業績較低，這主要是受價格和付款條件的推動，這就是本季同店銷售額成長 2.7% 的原因之一。

So the EBITDA pre-IFRS, in this case with Assai, there's an evolution above the sales, and it goes over BRL1 billion. So in our case, 100% of the EBITDA in the pre-IFRS vision, as you've seen, it's cash effect.

因此，在 Assai 的情況下，IFRS 之前的 EBITDA 比銷售額有所增長，超過了 10 億雷亞爾。因此，在我們的案例中，IFRS 之前的願景中 100% 的 EBITDA，正如您所看到的，它是現金效應。

So the EBITDA margin in the post-IFRS lands at BRL7.3 billion and BRL1.4 billion. So you have an important highlight also for the LA IR, which are the profits before income tax. And that, of course, impacted our income tax line and then the net income.

因此，IFRS 後的 EBITDA 利潤率分別為 73 億雷亞爾和 14 億雷亞爾。因此，LA IR 也有一個重要亮點，即所得稅前利潤。當然，這影響了我們的所得稅線，然後影響了淨收入。

And so we're going to present this in more details with Vitor's presentation where you measure the financial performance of the company and the cash generation capacity of the company as well. If you can advance to the next page, please.

因此，我們將在 Vitor 的演示中更詳細地介紹這一點，您可以在其中衡量公司的財務表現以及公司的現金產生能力。如果您可以進入下一頁，請。

Here we brought in within the third quarter how the evolution is a part of the stores. The first stores now that are still reaching their second anniversary, the first converted stores, which is probably the biggest project Assai has ever worked on with the hypermarkets.

在這裡，我們介紹了第三季商店的演變如何。第一批商店現已迎來開業兩週年紀念日，即第一批改建的商店，這可能是 Assai 與大賣場合作過的最大項目。

The extra hypermarkets on those stores reached in the third quarter BRL27.3 million of revenue, and they reached a pre-IFRS EBITDA that's in line with the company's margin, 5.4%. The stores have better location and they pressure the EBITDA line due to the higher lease costs because of the locations, but they follow the intentions of the projects. And these are stores that are very determining.

這些商店的額外大賣場在第三季度實現了 2,730 萬雷亞爾的收入，並且達到了 IFRS 之前的 EBITDA，與公司的利潤率 5.4% 一致。這些商店擁有更好的位置，由於位置較高的租賃成本，它們給 EBITDA 線帶來壓力，但它們遵循項目的意圖。這些都是非常有決定性的商店。

Of course, they're still maturing. Some of the services we still haven't been able to begin yet. There's still stores from '22 that are suffering a bit with a bit of the construction projects and work to implement the services with some advances also in the galleries and the additional services in the same location.

當然，他們還處於成熟階段。有些服務我們還無法開始。仍然有 22 年以來的商店因一些建設項目而受到一些影響，並努力實施服務，並在同一地點的畫廊和附加服務方面取得了一些進展。

So when it comes to new service and exploring other types of activities, that we're going to highlight a little bit later after in the Investor Day that we'll be having next week. You can advance to the next page, please.

因此，當涉及新服務和探索其他類型的活動時，我們將在下週的投資者日稍後強調。您可以前進到下一頁。

Well, we also bring important evolution of the gross profit in the company. The company, as we all know, went through a cycle that was really strong of growth in the last 5 years. We had a CAGR of 21.5% year-over-year within this geography of five years, we're talking about the period before the pandemic and the impacts we had in the pandemic with COVID-19 and the purchase of the extra stores and the entrance of the hypermarket stores and the inflation period, the deflation period within this year in the year of '24.

嗯，我們也帶來了公司毛利的重要演變。眾所周知，該公司在過去五年中經歷了一個非常強勁的成長週期。在這個地區的五年內，我們的複合年增長率為 21.5%，我們談論的是大流行之前的時期以及我們在大流行中對 COVID-19 的影響以及購買額外的商店和大賣場門店的入口和今年的通貨膨脹期、通貨緊縮期在'24年。

We had many impacts with the increase of the rates of ICMS in many states in Brazil, and the gross margin is really stable. So even with 117 stores opened in 3 years, we've still achieved about 40% of the store network with less than 36 months.

巴西很多州ICMS費率的提高給我們帶來了很多影響，而且毛利率非常穩定。因此，即使在三年內開設了 117 家門市，我們仍然在不到 36 個月的時間內實現了約 40% 的門市網路覆蓋率。

And so, if over 50% of the stores receive services, at least 3 services that are already available, but the strategy commercially and the negotiation with the team and the value proposition really makes us go from BRL1.1 billion in gross profit in 2019 to over BRL3 billion now in the third quarter of 2024.

因此，如果超過 50% 的商店接受服務，則至少有 3 項服務已經可用，但商業策略、與團隊的談判以及價值主張確實使我們在 2019 年毛利潤達到 11 億雷亞爾到2024 年第三季度，這數字將超過30 億雷亞爾。

We can advance to the next page, please. These changes because we're talking about not only a cycle of expansion that's very strong, but also an actual modification in the business model. So a performance model and operation model that Assai has been having because Assai has been really one of the most innovative players in the sector when it comes to increasing penetration in all of the different social levels, it's a model that's super democratic. And I think it's going to be one of the most unique models in the world because it services consumers from all social levels in Brazil.

我們可以進入下一頁。這些變化是因為我們談論的不僅是一個非常強勁的擴張週期，而且是商業模式的實際修改。因此，Assai 一直採用的績效模型和營運模式是因為在提高所有不同社會層面的滲透率方面，Assai 確實是該領域最具創新性的參與者之一，這是一種超級民主的模型。我認為這將成為世界上最獨特的模式之一，因為它為巴西各個社會階層的消費者提供服務。

Considering the Nielsen perimeter, the channel has over 50% supply in the households in Brazil. Assai is the cash and carry that's most well known in physical and digital retail in Brazil. We are present in over one of every three or four households in Brazil with a customer flow of over 40 million people visiting our stores per month.

考慮到尼爾森週邊，該通路為巴西家庭提供了超過 50% 的供應。Assai 是巴西實體和數位零售領域最知名的現購自運業務。巴西每三、四個家庭中就有一個以上有我們的身影，每月光臨我們商店的客流量超過 4000 萬人次。

And of course, this evolution and this achievement of customers would not have been achieved with the prior model we used to operate in. So on this slide, we present how the expenses when we consider -- when you deduct the lease factor, then, of course, you have the real estate costs that are a little higher, and that's more of a real estate factor.

當然，這種演進和客戶的成就是我們以前營運的模式無法實現的。因此，在這張幻燈片中，我們展示了當我們考慮時的費用 - 當你扣除租賃因素時，那麼，當然，你的房地產成本會更高一些，這更多是房地產因素。

But without that, we wouldn't be able to have stores for the Class A, B public or even service, the food service better. And in this graph, we can see that expenses, when you look at the pre-IFRS vision, which is practically the accounts without the leases, they are completely stable.

但如果沒有這個，我們就無法為 A 類、B 類大眾提供商店，甚至無法提供更好的食品服務。在這張圖中，我們可以看到，當你查看國際財務報告準則之前的願景時，費用實際上是沒有租賃的帳戶，它們是完全穩定的。

So the pre-IFRS expenses that closed in the third quarter in 2024 was lower than the expenses we operated with back in 2011, 2013, 2015, where the model would not be able to deliver this purchase experience and price.

因此，2024 年第三季結束的《國際財務報告準則》之前的費用低於我們在 2011 年、2013 年和 2015 年營運的費用，當時的模型無法提供這種購買體驗和價格。

So that demonstrates the company's discipline and how much productivity gains we've had over the years and were invested in this purchase experience to increase the coverage of these amounts of customers and evolve in the sales that we were able to evolve in the last few years.

因此，這展示了公司的紀律，以及我們多年來取得的生產力提升，並投資於這種購買體驗，以擴大這些數量的客戶的覆蓋範圍，並發展我們在過去幾年中能夠發展的銷售。

So we can advance that. I already mentioned in the first page and actually that the EBITDA had an advance of 12%. We reached BRL1.21 billion of EBITDA pre-IFRS, that's cash and an evolution within the 9 months of 21% compared to last year and a constant evolution in our purchase experience.

所以我們可以推進這一點。我已經在第一頁提到過，實際上 EBITDA 預支了 12%。我們在 IFRS 之前的 EBITDA 達到了 12.1 億雷亞爾，這是現金，並且在 9 個月內與去年相比增長了 21%，並且我們的購買體驗也在不斷發展。

So even in the year of 2024 where we have a cycle with expansion, and we're still advancing this rollout of services from this year all the way to January, we had 184 stores -- services added in our stores, so butchery, cold cuts, bakery. We have a huge amount of the customer part -- the area covered, and that's one of the biggest transformations at Assai and cash and carry have been going through.

因此，即使在 2024 年，我們有一個擴張週期，而且我們仍在將服務的推出從今年一直推進到 1 月，我們有 184 家商店——我們的商店中添加了服務，所以屠宰、冷淡切,麵包店.我們擁有大量的客戶部分——所涵蓋的區域，這是 Assai 和現購自運所經歷的最大轉變之一。

So in September 4, we opened our fourth unit in Manaus that was followed with our distribution center, which is going to be an important support to our operations in that capital, in a region that is so important in Brazil. And I want to wrap up with the EBITDA, we can advance.

因此，9 月 4 日，我們在馬瑙斯開設了第四家分公司，隨後又開設了我們的配送中心，這將為我們在該首都（巴西非常重要的地區）的營運提供重要支援。我想以 EBITDA 結束，我們可以前進。

And I want to show -- and then I'll pass it on to Victor, so he can talk to you about the financial aspects and the debt and other details on the financial performance.

我想展示——然後我會將其傳遞給維克多，這樣他就可以與您討論財務方面、債務以及財務業績的其他細節。

Thank you, Belmiro. Good morning, everyone. We're going to talk about, as Belmiro just mentioned, what are the details of the financial results, the debt, the leverage and profits. So here, you can see on this page, you have an improvement in our financial results, when it comes to nominal aspects as well as the percentage of the net sales. So going from 3.0% of the net sales to 2.6% now.

謝謝你，貝爾米羅。大家早安。正如貝爾米羅剛才所提到的，我們將討論財務表現、債務、槓桿和利潤的細節。因此，您可以在此頁面上看到，在名義方面以及淨銷售額百分比方面，我們的財務表現有所改善。因此，從佔淨銷售額的 3.0% 增加到現在的 2.6%。

And this improvement in the financial results are really related to higher profitability in our cash. As we mentioned in our release, our average cash invested had grown, and we'll get into details about this, and also a reduction on the anticipation of receivables.

財務表現的改善其實與我們現金獲利能力的提升有關。正如我們在新聞稿中提到的，我們的平均現金投資有所增長，我們將詳細介紹這一點，以及應收帳款預期的減少。

And finally, we have the non-incidence when we compare with the previous quarter of the interest related to the debt we had from the acquisition of the hypermarket. So these three factors together brought in this financial result to a whole -- to a level that's a lot better and that contributes nominally. And as a consequence of this, we have a strong evolution in our profits after income tax.

最後，與上一季相比，我們收購大賣場所欠債務的利息並沒有發生。因此，這三個因素共同帶來了整體財務結果——達到了一個更好的水平，並且名義上有所貢獻。因此，我們的所得稅後利潤出現了強勁的成長。

We grew 83%, and that's a direct combination of the evolution of the EBITDA and of course, with this improvement of the financial results as well. So profits before income tax go from BRL142 million to BRL260 million in the comparison of this last quarter compared to the same period last year.

我們成長了 83%，這是 EBITDA 發展的直接結合，當然也與財務表現的改善相結合。因此，與去年同期相比，上個季度的所得稅前利潤從 1.42 億雷亞爾增至 2.6 億雷亞爾。

And finally, the net income evolving. The net income in the pre-IFRS vision grows 10%. And so, that's a consequence of the evolution of the profits before income tax, but they're also affected by a shift considering a lower positive impact if you consider the subventions for investments, that's not a new topic.

最後，淨利潤不斷變化。IFRS 實施前願景中的淨利潤成長 10%。因此，這是所得稅前利潤演變的結果，但如果考慮投資補貼，它們也會受到轉變的影響，因為考慮到投資補貼的正面影響較低，這不是一個新主題。

We've discussed this in the two previous quarters. And so, that impacts the credit in this year, and that makes the comparison with the last year, not as strong as the comparison we've seen in the income tax. So here, we can bring a comparison, and it's important to highlight that the investments that were performed and as we've already described here, this transformation of the hypermarket, which gave us a huge boost, this strong investment cycle was almost all funded by our own cash generation.

我們在前兩季已經討論過這個問題。因此，這會影響今年的信貸，這使得與去年的比較不如我們在所得稅中看到的那麼強烈。所以在這裡，我們可以進行比較，重要的是要強調所進行的投資，正如我們已經在這裡描述的，大賣場的這種轉型給我們帶來了巨大的推動，這個強勁的投資週期幾乎全部得到了資助透過我們自己的現金創造。

So 90% of the investments were funded with our own cash generation. So when you look at the operational cash generation in the period, it was BRL7.7 billion, and we can see that on the left side of the slide. And we can also see investments of BRL8.5 billion.

因此，90% 的投資是由我們自己產生的現金資助的。因此，當您查看該期間的營運現金產生時，會發現為 77 億雷亞爾，我們可以在幻燈片左側看到這一數字。我們還可以看到85億雷亞爾的投資。

So it's really important that Assai should be a strong cash generator and how it was able to support this cycle that was so strong for investments and growth, placing Assai in a highlighted position within what we've seen in the retail market and generating cash and funding its own growth.

因此，非常重要的是，Assai 應該成為一個強大的現金產生器，以及它如何能夠支持這個對投資和成長如此強勁的周期，使Assai 在我們在零售市場中看到的一個突出位置，並產生現金和為自身的發展提供資金。

We'll move on to the next slide. It's important to also mention that we must consider the deleveraging of the company. So deleveraging is a focus for the company, and it's going to be a focus in 2025, as we've already mentioned in the last presentations, and especially when we consider the relevant fact that we've just launched recently.

我們將繼續觀看下一張投影片。還要提到的是，我們必須考慮公司的去槓桿化。因此，去槓桿化是公司的重點，並將成為 2025 年的重點，正如我們在上次演講中已經提到的那樣，特別是當我們考慮到我們最近剛推出的相關事實時。

So here, we need to highlight the evolution of the net debt upon the EBITDA with the leverage indicator of the third quarter, where we've reached levels of 3.52 times, and that's a reduction of 0.13. And that's compared with the previous quarter and a reduction of almost 1 time EBITDA, 0.93 times EBITDA when we compare with the end of the last quarter last year.

因此，在這裡，我們需要強調第三季槓桿指標的 EBITDA 淨債務的演變，我們達到了 3.52 倍的水平，減少了 0.13。與上一季相比，EBITDA 減少了近 1 倍，與去年上季末相比，EBITDA 減少了 0.93 倍。

So this is a strong level of leverage. We're going to continue with this process, and we hope to reach the end with this indicator below 3.2 times EBITDA.

所以這是一個很強的槓桿水平。我們將繼續這個過程，我們希望最終這個指標低於 EBITDA 的 3.2 倍。

And so, that's the reduction of the debt. And so in the quarter, we had a reduction of the net debt when it comes to the end of the third quarter last year, excluding any seasonality effects and also when we compare with the prior quarter.

所以，這就是債務的減少。因此，在本季度，截至去年第三季末，排除任何季節性影響以及與上一季相比，我們的淨債務有所減少。

So that's a nominal evolution in the debt. And when we consider this from 2025 onwards, it's a continuity of this deleveraging and we will wait till the end of 2025 up to 2.6 times net debt-to-EBITDA. And besides this, we see the composition of this, right?

這就是債務的名義演變。當我們從 2025 年開始考慮這一點時，這是這種去槓桿化的連續性，我們將等到 2025 年底達到淨債務與 EBITDA 的 2.6 倍。除此之外，我們還看到了這個的組成，對嗎？

So the deleveraging. This is happening due to reduction of the EBITDA. And we do expect the continuity of this up until the end of 2024. But especially 2025 the deleveraging must happen in a more balanced way between the evolution of the EBITDA and reduction of the nominal debt.

所以去槓桿。這是由於 EBITDA 減少而發生的。我們確實預計這種情況會持續到 2024 年底。但特別是到 2025 年，去槓桿化必須在 EBITDA 的演變和名目債務的減少之間以更平衡的方式進行。

Now, we must also highlight that -- of course, improving this breakdown of the results and financial indicators so that you can have the best understanding about this. And here, we bring in cash availability. And when it comes to this point, we had BRL5.9 billion.

現在，我們也必須強調一點——當然，要改進這個結果和財務指標的細分，以便大家能夠對此有最好的理解。在這裡，我們帶來了現金可用性。到目前為止，我們有 59 億雷亞爾。

Its availability that's 16% higher than what we had. But just as importantly, we can see this breakdown of availability. And so, maybe it's like 3 times more, and we ended the quarter with BRL1.86 billion that were not discounted at almost BRL700 million and a discounted receivable.

它的可用性比我們高出 16%。但同樣重要的是，我們可以看到可用性的細分。因此，也許是 3 倍多，本季結束時，我們的未貼現金額為 18.6 億雷亞爾，還有近 7 億雷亞爾和貼現的應收帳款。

And so we can see higher availability and also a bigger volume of non-discounted receivables. On the other hand, you have an increase of the average cash position, that's also something gradual quarter-over-quarter. So we have in the previous quarter BRL835 million of cash leverage. And now we've gone over BRL1.3 billion applied in the quarter. And this cash position also evolved a lot when we compare with the third quarter last year.

因此，我們可以看到更高的可用性和更大數量的非貼現應收帳款。另一方面，平均現金部位增加，也是逐季逐漸增加的。因此，我們上一季擁有 8.35 億雷亞爾的現金槓桿。現在，我們本季申請的資金已超過 13 億雷亞爾。與去年第三季相比，這種現金狀況也發生了很大變化。

So more and more we're searching for liquidity and a more robust cash position. And then, of course, discounting less receivables that we would be able to have this in the closure of each quarter. And so -- we've already detailed this. There's a cycle of cash. So that varies a lot due to the cycle of payments, and that's mainly because we would like to have the strategy of 3 payment dates.

因此，我們越來越多地尋求流動性和更強勁的現金狀況。然後，當然，我們可以在每個季度結束時減少應收帳款的折現。所以——我們已經詳細說明了這一點。現金有一個循環。因此，由於付款週期的不同，情況會有很大差異，這主要是因為我們希望採用 3 個付款日期的策略。

So it's important to highlight, besides this reduction in the leverage, the initiatives we've implemented in the last few months, especially when it's related to the liability management for the company. So these were 3 important operations we performed together with the market and the 2 most important debenture issuances, the first one we completed at the end of the second quarter and the second one that we completed in the beginning of the month of October.

因此，除了槓桿率的降低之外，重要的是要強調我們在過去幾個月中實施的舉措，尤其是與公司負債管理相關的舉措。這是我們與市場一起執行的 3 項重要操作以及 2 項最重要的債券發行，第一項是我們在第二季末完成的，第二項是我們在 10 月初完成的。

These operations allowed us to have, first of all, an evolution that was very significant in the debt profile at two relevant dimensions. And so, these two main issuances went out through -- and they had this coupon of CDI plus 1.25%.

首先，這些業務使我們的債務狀況在兩個相關維度上發生了非常重要的變化。因此，這兩次主要發行都通過了——它們的票息為 CDI 加 1.25%。

And then we reached the end of this process already considering the prepayment that was associated to the second issuance of debentures for some bonds that were maturing, but a little bit in 2026 as that was all detailed on the graph.

然後，我們已經考慮到與某些即將到期的債券的第二次發行債券相關的預付款，但在 2026 年會提前一點，因為這在圖表中都有詳細說明。

But then we reached the level of CDI plus 1.40% as an average cost for our debt in October 2024, and then an evolution of the average term, which was 32 months, and that becomes 41 months. And so now we're going to detail the maturities in the last few years.

但隨後我們在 2024 年 10 月達到了 CDI 加 1.40% 的水平，作為我們債務的平均成本，然後平均期限發生演變，從 32 個月變成了 41 個月。現在我們將詳細介紹過去幾年的到期情況。

And so the maturities for 2025 and 2026 had a reduction of almost BRL3 billion, BRL2.1 billion plus BRL2.9 billion. And then the goal went to 2028, 2029. And so, this extension in the profile and reduction of the maturities for the next 2 years, we'll see them appear in 2028, 2029.

因此，2025 年和 2026 年的到期期限減少了近 30 億雷亞爾、21 億雷亞爾和 29 億雷亞爾。然後目標就到了2028年、2029年。因此，未來兩年的期限延長和期限縮短，我們將在 2028 年、2029 年看到它們出現。

And this extension of the terms, providing this payment flow that's a lot more constant throughout the next few years, providing more safety and more stability for our cash flow. So that's what we wanted to share with the financial aspects when it comes to sustainability.

條款的延長使支付流程在未來幾年內更加穩定，為我們的現金流提供了更多的安全性和穩定性。這就是我們在永續發展方面想要與財務方面分享的內容。

And so -- thank you. Considering our sustainability, I want to highlight in this quarter we had alongside our strategy and we had the publication of the animal well-being that sets the standards for our animal protein products and animal origin products.

所以——謝謝。考慮到我們的可持續性，我想強調在本季度我們制定了策略，並出版了《動物福祉》，為我們的動物蛋白產品和動物源產品設定了標準。

And this guideline intends to really engage our commercial partners to have better quality standards and more ethical practices. When we get into our diversity assessment, and we were able to identify that over 67% of our employees self-declared Black. And so as a -- we also identified over 43% black people in leadership position. And also -- and so these were really significant.

該指南旨在真正讓我們的商業合作夥伴參與進來，以製定更好的品質標準和更道德的做法。當我們進行多元化評估時，我們發現超過 67% 的員工自稱是黑人。因此，我們也發現超過 43% 的黑人擔任領導職務。而且——所以這些都非常重要。

And so, when we consider the social impact actions, we promoted the donation of over 3.5 million meals during the year, all of them through projects and campaigns, emergency campaigns, et cetera. And then when we talked about -- they have the seventh edition of the Assai Academy, where we had -- and they received technical capacity.

因此，當我們考慮社會影響行動時，我們在這一年裡促進了超過 350 萬份餐點的捐贈，所有這些都是透過計畫和活動、緊急活動等進行的。然後，當我們談到時，他們擁有第七版阿薩伊學院，我們也在那裡，他們獲得了技術能力。

So these are 2,100 entrepreneurs that awarded. And so, when we consider the ethical and transparent management, we considered our data that was audited. They were certified for the third consecutive year with the Gold Seal in the public record for the issuance at the GHG protocol.

共有 2,100 名企業家獲獎。因此，當我們考慮道德和透明管理時，我們會考慮經過審計的數據。它們連續第三年在溫室氣體協議發布的公共記錄中獲得金印章認證。

So we had many awards. And so, they also consider the ranking of the best and greatest. And so, we were elected as the Best Retail and Wholesale Company. We also had the Top of Mind award as the most well-known in the supermarket and wholesale sectors.

所以我們獲得了很多獎項。因此，他們也會考慮最好和最偉大的排名。因此，我們被評為最佳零售和批發公司。我們也獲得了超市和批發業最知名的「最受關注」獎。

And also for the first time, we were present in the ranking for the GPTW where we occupy the 18th position with companies that have over 10,000 employees. There are many different awards, and I want to highlight that these advances are a result of the commitments from all of our team that has been searching for ways to build a company that's ethical, inclusive and sustainable. Thank you so much.

我們也首次出現在 GPTW 排名中，在員工人數超過 10,000 人的公司中排名第 18 位。有許多不同的獎項，我想強調的是，這些進步是我們所有團隊承諾的結果，他們一直在尋找方法來建立一家道德、包容和永續的公司。太感謝了。

Well, we can move on to the next slide. As you've probably seen the transformation of the cash and carry in Assai and the movement really seems very proud to have been one of the protagonists in the company. And to be honest, if we were to see the company operating with the pre-operational expenses at a total, considered the best retail company or the most well-known brand in the country as top of mind and most known in the cash and carry supermarket, that would be like almost unbelievable if you've seen our journey as Assai.

好吧，我們可以繼續看下一張投影片。正如您可能已經看到 Assai 現金和利得的轉變，而該運動似乎非常自豪能夠成為該公司的主角之一。老實說，如果我們看到一家公司以預運營費用總計運營，那麼被認為是該國最好的零售公司或最知名的品牌是首要考慮的，並且在現購自運方面最為知名超市，如果你看過我們作為Assai 的旅程，那簡直令人難以置信。

So this is an achievement. And yes, we're very proud of it. But actually, it's the basis for -- and it's translated through the other 500 million people that visit our stores. And so, that would be translated into results, cash generation and reduction of the debt, which is something that has really concerned. We can move on. Next slide, please.

所以這是一項成就。是的，我們對此感到非常自豪。但實際上，它是基礎——並且透過訪問我們商店的其他 5 億人進行轉換。因此，這將轉化為成果、現金產生和債務減少，這是真正令人擔憂的事情。我們可以繼續前進。請下一張投影片。

And so, this is an important reason for much pride. So just to give you a bit of the perspective, we -- Vitor also highlighted this quite a bit with the beginning of the cycle. And so we're considering a drop in leverage. So this expectation you had, as estimated not only with us, but in the overall market when you had the acquisition of the Extra and the Board and the company management as well are really walking hand-in-hand when it comes to having this focus, so that from now on we can reduce the level of leverage, and that has been something that's been proven in this quarter.

因此，這是令人自豪的重要原因。因此，為了給您一些視角，我們—維託也在周期開始時強調了這一點。因此我們正在考慮降低槓桿率。因此，您的這種期望不僅是我們的估計，而且是在您收購 Extra 時對整個市場的估計，董事會和公司管理層在關注這一焦點方面確實是攜手並進的。可以降低槓桿水平，這一點已經在本季度得到了證明。

And to reinforce the guidance we already had at the end of 2025 of 2.6 net debt-to-EBITDA, we also reduce expansion entirely. So there's some very important markets and projects that are extremely important for the company when we consider the evolution of the business model, but this is going to be a joint effort.

為了強化我們在 2025 年底已有的淨債務與 EBITDA 比率為 2.6 的指導，我們也完全減少了擴張。因此，當我們考慮商業模式的演變時，有一些非常重要的市場和專案對公司極為重要，但這將是共同努力的結果。

And so what we're trying to do is prioritize cash generation, especially when it comes to this focus on deleveraging and the stores coming in for 2025. We have projects for them for the end of this year, the projects that are very important.

因此，我們正在努力做的是優先考慮現金生成，尤其是在關注去槓桿化和 2025 年開店方面。我們為他們準備了今年年底的項目，這些項目非常重要。

And so that was an important focus, right? So we could focus on this and have -- we also had an important evolution in phygital, which is the evolution of the app, which you heard quite a bit in the anniversary campaign and other partners that we're also establishing with glass, metal partners as well as other projects that the company should implement from now on.

所以這是一個重要的焦點，對吧？因此，我們可以專注於這一點，並且- 我們在phygital 方面也發生了重要的演變，這就是應用程式的演變，您在周年紀念活動以及我們也在與玻璃、金屬建立的其他合作夥伴中聽到過很多這種演變合作夥伴以及公司今後應實施的其他項目。

As a basis, considering the biggest strong point we have, which is the brand that's most well-known and the company is most present in any sector and a flow of almost 500 million people that go through our stores annually, which gives us a strong point and opens up a series of opportunities from now on.

作為基礎，考慮到我們最大的優勢，即最知名的品牌和在任何行業中最有影響力的公司，以及每年有近 5 億人流經我們的商店，這給了我們強大的優勢點並從現在開始提供一系列機會。

So from my side, that's it. Now I'll pass the floor back to Gabi for us to get into Q&A. Thank you.

所以從我的角度來看，就是這樣。現在我將把發言權交還給加比，讓我們進入問答環節。謝謝。

Thank you, Belmiro. We can start the Q&A now.

謝謝你，貝爾米羅。我們現在可以開始問答了。

(Operator Instructions) Joseph Giordano, JPMorgan.

（操作員指示）Joseph Giordano，摩根大通。

Hi, Good morning, everyone. Good morning. Vitor, Belmiro and Gabe. thanks for taking my question. I want to start off exploring 3 points that are quick. The first one may be is the most important, right, which is, how you're looking at the evolution of this food inflation? We see some categories that have prices growing. So I want to understand how you're seeing the situation and also if there's any substitution effects as well in this context?

嗨，大家早安。早安.維托、貝爾米羅和加布。感謝您提出我的問題。我想從快速探索 3 點開始。第一個可能是最重要的，對吧，你如何看待這次食品通膨的演變？我們看到一些類別的價格正在上漲。所以我想了解您如何看待這種情況，以及在這種情況下是否存在任何替代效應？

The second point is going to be a little more related to the expansion, right, the 10 stores for next year and what's actually hired for this possible upside and if we even think about changing the strategies with the BTS model and anything, we also had a margin gain this quarter. And I want to understand what you guys are looking at when it comes to margin gains, trying to break down a bit between what's operational leverage and maturity of this portfolio that's relatively new. And then the second point also looking at efficiency. Thank you so much.

第二點將更多地與擴張有關，對吧，明年的 10 家商店以及為實現這一可能的好處而實際僱用的人員，如果我們考慮改變 BTS 模式等策略，我們也有本季度利潤率有所增長。我想了解你們在利潤收益方面所關注的是什麼，試圖在營運槓桿和這個相對較新的投資組合的成熟度之間進行一些分解。第二點也關注效率。太感謝了。

Thanks, Joseph. Well, these are really broad topics, right? So you have inflation in sequence and then we've seen this deflation movement as well. And in July and August -- but in September, that's already an initial inflation sign. And then you have some categories already demonstrating this increase in price.

謝謝，約瑟夫。嗯，這些都是非常廣泛的話題，對吧？因此，依次出現了通貨膨脹，然後我們也看到了通貨緊縮運動。在七月和八月，但在九月，這已經是通膨的初步跡象。然後，有些類別已經顯示出價格上漲的情況。

So we already have this scenario with food inflation, and we also have a scenario of demand considering consumers, it's also pretty pressured. But yes, there is an inflation scenario. And then in October, that was already visible in some categories and we have this inflationary movement.

因此，我們已經遇到了食品通膨的情況，考慮到消費者的需求，我們也遇到了這種情況，壓力也很大。但確實存在通貨膨脹的情況。然後在十月份，這在某些類別中已經很明顯，並且出現了通貨膨脹運動。

But of course, we have currency influence depending on the levels they're in -- even in climate events we've had with the main issue of the drought. And all of that is reflected in some product categories. So we do expect inflation movement in the fourth quarter that is higher than what we had seen in the third quarter.

但當然，我們對貨幣的影響取決於它們所處的水平——即使是在主要問題乾旱的氣候事件中也是如此。所有這些都反映在某些產品類別中。因此，我們預期第四季的通膨走勢將高於第三季。

So when you consider the expansion for the next year, we have five or six that are hired. These are projects that were underway. Some of them were even expected already for this year, and that's why some of them could still be reviewed. But what we still see today is a number that we considered in the relevant fact for that level of investment that we set.

因此，當您考慮明年的擴張時，我們會僱用五到六個人。這些是正在進行中的項目。其中一些甚至預計今年就會發布，這就是為什麼其中一些仍然可以接受審查的原因。但今天我們仍然看到的是我們在設定的投資水準的相關事實中考慮的數字。

And so it's important to mention that part of that investment, we have maintenance expenses. And so most of those stores, although they're new, the cash and carry model in itself doesn't have such a high investment, Right?

因此，重要的是要提到投資的一部分，我們有維護費用。那麼大多數這些商店雖然是新開的，但現購自運模式本身並沒有這麼高的投資，對吧？

So our expenses for survivor CapEx is about like 20% of the depreciation we have. But there's still important projects to be involved in and to be able to extract more value and prepare the assets so that there's major advances also on the self-checkout and other issues. So expectations, the company has 40% margin.

因此，我們的倖存者資本支出費用約為折舊的 20%。但仍有重要的項目需要參與，以便能夠提取更多價值並準備資產，以便在自助結帳和其他問題上也取得重大進展。因此預計，該公司將有40%的利潤率。

We can notice that the market when it comes to competitive advantages, but the objective is always to gain more margin. So this year, we do have an increase in margins, but the ICMS rates kind of dropped because of this, right? So we had many states where we had an increase of the ICMS rates in the first and second quarter this year.

我們可以注意到，市場在談到競爭優勢時，但目標始終是獲得更多的利潤。所以今年，我們的利潤率確實有所增加，但 ICMS 費率因此有所下降，對吧？今年第一季和第二季度，許多州的 ICMS 費率都有所提高。

So if not, I would -- we can't obviously know what's coming from a tax perspective or competitive market scenario. But when you look at the basis of the progression, we do expect an increase in margins for 2025, considering that for 2024, of course, everyone has to be very careful, we think that the trade down aspect and the worst has gone behind us, right?

因此，如果沒有，我會——我們顯然無法從稅收角度或競爭性市場情景中知道會發生什麼。但當你看看進展的基礎時，我們確實預計 2025 年的利潤率會增加，考慮到 2024 年，當然，每個人都必須非常小心，我們認為貿易下行和最糟糕的情況已經過去了， 正確的？

So from now on, consumers will be able to resume this and also getting back to a bit of the inflation, that also helps us. As an overall sector, the sector was always very benefited by the inflation period. So either because of the supply capacity of the small businesses and also because of the price differences we have in regards to the different traditional retail channels, that are still very relevant.

因此，從現在開始，消費者將能夠恢復這種狀態，並恢復一定程度的通膨，這也對我們有幫助。作為一個整體行業，該行業總是從通膨時期受益匪淺。因此，無論是因為小型企業的供應能力，還是因為我們在不同傳統零售通路方面的價格差異，這仍然非常相關。

So that's where you see the Nielsen vision, right, where -- and that's where we see this -- and there's still advances in this possibility for our sector.

所以這就是你看到尼爾森願景的地方，對，這就是我們看到的地方，而我們行業的這種可能性仍然取得了進展。

I hope that was clear.

我希望這是清楚的。

Thank you, Belmiro.

謝謝你，貝爾米羅。

Joao Soares, Citi.

若昂·蘇亞雷斯，花旗銀行。

Thank you, guys. Good morning. Well, following this logic, I wanted to understand the competitive advantage that Assai has. Could you make a lot of margins? And I think this is a very positive point. But when you consider the growth, we see the scenario that's still quite challenging, right? We have a lot of information here for the last few years.

謝謝你們，夥計們。早安.嗯，按照這個邏輯，我想了解Assai的競爭優勢。能賺很多利潤嗎？我認為這是一個非常正面的觀點。但當你考慮成長時，我們看到的情況仍然相當具有挑戰性，對吧？我們這裡有過去幾年的大量資訊。

And I want to understand what the competitive advantage is with Assai? And getting into more broad topic here. You said it's a business model that's changing. So you must adapt and you need to have a store that's different with services, et cetera. So I wanted to understand what's the positioning like?

我想了解 Assai 的競爭優勢是什麼？並在這裡進入更廣泛的話題。你說這是一種正在改變的商業模式。所以你必須適應，你需要有一家在服務等方面有所不同的商店。所以我想了解一下定位是什麼樣的？

How do you get into this context? And how do you participate in this scenario, right? And what do you think Assai needs to do to position itself even better? Thank you.

你是如何進入這個背景的？而你如何參與這個場景，對吧？您認為 Assai 需要做什麼才能更好地定位自己？謝謝。

Well, let me see if I understood your question. From a competitive vantage point, which is what I mentioned in the first page, I think it's really important to mention that the cash and carry model, people say, Oh wow, the biggest retail model reached this percentage of the homes.

好吧，讓我看看我是否理解你的問題。從競爭的角度來看，這就是我在第一頁提到的，我認為提到現購自運模式非常重要，人們會說，哦，哇，最大的零售模式達到了這個比例的家庭。

But it's a model that has 40% of its sales done to B2B customers with very different dynamics when compared to the B2C customers. So we have the food service public, for example, with a whole set of customers that we consider to be recurring end customers food service and most of the utilizers.

但這種模式的 40% 銷售額來自 B2B 客戶，與 B2C 客戶相比，其動態截然不同。例如，我們有食品服務大眾，有一整套客戶，我們認為這些客戶是食品服務的經常性最終客戶和大多數使用者。

And that's where Assai always has a competitive level that's very strong. Just take a look and you'll see maybe the best indicators when you look at the sales per square meter and the sales per store, if we weren't competitive, obviously. It's not only about prices you see, it's also about the store locations and other factors, but we keep our competitive vantage point.

這就是阿賽始終具有非常強的競技水平的地方。只要看一下，當您查看每平方米的銷售額和每家商店的銷售額時，您可能會看到最好的指標，如果我們沒有競爭力，顯然。這不僅與您看到的價格有關，還與商店位置和其他因素有關，但我們保持了競爭優勢。

And then you have a reseller public that's really geared towards price and payment terms, if you consider the pressure and the capital cost they have in Brazil. This public is not very loyal. They'll buy in any cash and carry based on opportunities. And when we look at this kind of public, sometimes we don't really follow this dynamic that is the same as the rest of the market because in this period, if the customer is buying a competitor, they're not going to stop buying from Assai.

如果考慮到他們在巴西面臨的壓力和資本成本，那麼你將擁有真正關注價格和付款條件的經銷商公眾。這個公眾不太忠誠。他們會根據機會買入任何現金並持有。當我們觀察這類大眾時，有時我們並沒有真正遵循與其他市場相同的動態，因為在這個時期，如果顧客購買競爭對手的產品，他們就不會停止購買來自阿賽。

So that's why when you look at the final numbers and the total base and sales per store, we are looking at a combination of factors. And almost like as if we were two businesses. That must be analyzed separately. So the strategy that the company has been taking on in the third quarter was to not burn cash.

因此，當您查看最終數字以及每家商店的總基數和銷售額時，我們會考慮多種因素。幾乎就像我們是兩家企業一樣。這得分開分析。因此，該公司在第三季採取的策略是不燒錢。

If you look, we have not burnt cash actually, we generated cash to be able to amortize our debt. And so well, did you lose competitive vantage? No. The recurring public? No. Although, of course, some of the sales dynamics for the resellers or strategies geared towards price and payment conditions, we've decided to not follow even if this led to an impact in the same-store sales.

如果你看一下，我們其實並沒有燒錢，我們產生現金是為了攤提我們的債務。那麼，您是否失去了競爭優勢？不。經常出現的公眾？不。當然，儘管經銷商的一些銷售動態或策略針對價格和付款條件，但我們決定不遵循，即使這會影響同店銷售。

But when we look at our numbers and we see this public, we also see we're competitive. I hope that was clear, that I was able to address your question.

但當我們看到我們的數據並看到這些公眾時，我們也看到我們具有競爭力。我希望我能夠回答你的問題，這一點很清楚。

Yeah. And taking advantage, just a quick point here about the -- and scenario with food inflation. How are you looking at B2B? Are B2B is getting back to buying and stocking up? Or how is that?

是的。藉此機會，這裡簡單介紹一下食品通膨的情況和情況。您如何看待 B2B？B2B 正在恢復購買和備貨嗎？或者說怎麼樣？

No. To be honest, we don't see this trend yet because maybe the prices, as they used to call, where you have a drop in inflation based on a price of a high basis. So maybe some changes in the behaviors, especially last year and this year, that reduced this a bit in the food sector. It was below expectations for the actual market and the trade down movement, that was also going to happen, already happened in this year. We had major reductions in the sizes of packaging, especially in categories that are involved with the purchase like indulgent shopping, like -- basic products don't, but for like indulgent items, you'll see they have the same size of package, but a lot less products inside.

不。老實說，我們還沒有看到這種趨勢，因為也許是價格，正如他們過去所說的那樣，在高基價的基礎上通貨膨脹率下降。因此，也許行為上的一些變化，尤其是去年和今年，使得食品業的這種情況有所減少。它低於實際市場的預期，而且貿易下降運動也將發生，今年已經發生了。我們大幅縮小了包裝尺寸，特別是涉及購買的類別，例如放縱購物，例如基本產品沒有，但對於類似放縱物品，您會看到它們具有相同尺寸的包裝，但裡面的產品少了很多。

So the levels of working capital pressure and all of this creates concerns also because for now, actually, sometimes time that payment conditions could even be better than price. We actually don't see a big stock up movement unless you have like some sign of even higher peak in prices than what we're seeing now.

因此，營運資金壓力的水平以及所有這些都引起了擔憂，因為目前，實際上，有時付款條件甚至可能比價格更好。實際上，我們並沒有看到庫存大幅上漲，除非有跡象表明價格高峰比我們現在看到的更高。

So if we see -- when we get back to the curves in '23 and '24, you can see there are some periods where everyone was really surprised with the deflation, right? So this creates some concerns among resellers as they could be the public that can stock up more. Foodservice normally buy -- they have like a recurrence of over 11 times per month.

因此，如果我們看到 - 當我們回到 23 和 24 年的曲線時，您會發現在某些時期，每個人都對通貨緊縮感到驚訝，對吧？因此，這引起了經銷商的一些擔憂，因為他們可能是公眾，可以囤積更多庫存。餐飲服務通常會購買－每月重複次數超過 11 次。

They normally buy perishable goods that they can't stock up that much. And that's where they have the shelf life risk. And so we haven't seen this that much.

他們通常會購買無法儲存那麼多的易腐爛商品。這就是他們面臨保質期風險的地方。所以我們還沒有看到太多這樣的情況。

Okay. Perfect Belmiro. Thank you so much.

好的。完美的貝爾米羅。太感謝了。

Danniela Eiger, XP.

丹妮拉‧艾格 (Danniela Eiger)，XP。

Hi guys. Thanks for taking my question. My first one is about the opening dynamic for '25. We just reviewed your plans because of the macro scenarios, but we've seen a worsening in the margins and the macro dynamic, especially when you look at interest, indicating an increase that's even bigger next year. So what's the mindset for the company about possible new revisions at least or opening plans and also some levers to potentialize or mitigate the expansion in the leverage? You talked about the sale leaseback in the guidance revision.

嗨，大家好。感謝您提出我的問題。我的第一個主題是關於 25 年的開局動態。由於宏觀情景，我們剛剛審查了你們的計劃，但我們看到利潤率和宏觀動態惡化，特別是當你關注利息時，表明明年的增長幅度更大。那麼，公司對於可能的新修訂（至少是開放計畫）以及一些潛在或減輕槓桿擴張的槓桿有何看法？您在指導意見修訂中談到了售後回租。

But I'm not sure if with the peak in interest, it's more difficult to have some more attractive agreements. So it's kind of like an update. I know you just talked about this recently, but if you look at the macro context, it changes a lot. So that way, you can see how you're looking at this for 2025.

但我不確定隨著興趣的高峰，達成一些更具吸引力的協議是否會變得更加困難。所以這有點像是更新。我知道你最近才談到這個問題，但如果你看看宏觀背景，它會發生很大的變化。這樣，您就可以了解您對 2025 年的看法。

And then my second point is in regards to the volumes. You mentioned the tickets are going up 6%, and it seems more like due to new customers than the volume per customer. But also how you've been seeing this movement up ahead? And also as the campaign - anniversary campaign matures more and more?

我的第二點是關於數量。您提到門票上漲了 6%，這似乎更像是新客戶的原因，而不是每位客戶的數量。但您對未來的趨勢有何看法？隨著活動 - 週年紀念活動越來越成熟？

So yeah, we just reviewed the stores for '25 and the interest curve has been worsening, as you've seen. And so -- but what we have now with some work between the management and the Board of the company. But it's important to take a look at this from this perspective, right, with this reduction in cash generation the company has. Despite the expectations we have, we should reach a deleveraging curve with the reduction and drop of the EBITDA for one year here.

所以，是的，我們剛剛審查了 25 年的商店，正如您所看到的，利率曲線一直在惡化。因此，我們現在在公司管理層和董事會之間開展了一些工作。但重要的是從這個角度來看這個問題，對吧，因為公司的現金產生量減少了。儘管我們有這樣的預期，但隨著一年 EBITDA 的減少和下降，我們應該會達到去槓桿曲線。

And of course, the EBITDA was partially hindered and -- but we may go through a revision process for '26, but now for '25, most of them are already hired, and we're keeping that. Why? Because the company is a major cash generation. And so, we can see what is the landing point and what we're projecting for '26. And we kind of know where the company is reaching, right? There are some other levers with the sales leaseback.

當然，EBITDA 受到了部分阻礙，而且 - 但我們可能會經歷 26 年的修訂流程，但現在 25 年，他們中的大多數已經被雇用，我們將保留這一點。為什麼？因為該公司是一個主要的現金產生者。因此，我們可以看到著陸點是什麼以及我們對 26 年的預測。我們大概知道公司的發展方向，對嗎？售後回租還有其他一些槓桿。

But as long as this actually makes sense, right? The moment we're in -- considered a high level, 10, 15 years, and that could be something that in just like 2 or 3 years we would be in a debt cash scenario that's maybe a lot worse than what we have today. So obviously, any other measure, the management and Board will sit down, take -- make the best decisions for the company and look at the balance point between this in the short and long-term.

但只要這確實有意義，對嗎？我們所處的時刻——被認為是一個高水平，10年、15年，這可能是在大約2或3年內我們將處於債務現金場景，這可能比我們今天的情況糟糕得多。顯然，任何其他措施，管理層和董事會都會坐下來，做出對公司最好的決定，並考慮短期和長期之間的平衡。

So what we could see in our hands is the working capital, cash generation in every quarter and really being able to not only deleverage when it comes to the ratio, but also drop the EBITDA. So really focused on disciplined working capital, but (inaudible) intensely working towards this as well as on this now with the operations team and the levels of stocks we have.

因此，我們手中可以看到的是營運資金、每季的現金產生量，以及真正能夠不僅在比率方面去槓桿化，而且還能夠降低 EBITDA。因此，我們真正專注於嚴格的營運資本，但（聽不清楚）正在為此以及我們的營運團隊和我們擁有的庫存水平積極努力。

So the company is a strong cash generator, and we have part of the EBITDA also above what we would like for payments of debt -- of interest at this moment. But we really believe in our cash generation and this third quarter is going to be providing more demonstration towards this, clear sign.

因此，該公司是一個強大的現金產生者，我們的 EBITDA 的一部分也高於我們目前所希望的債務支付——利息。但我們確實相信我們的現金產生能力，第三季將為這一明確的跡象提供更多的證明。

So then getting back to what I answered to Joao, the volumes we lost to the reseller public. But when you consider the consumer public, there is definitely a gain in the tickets. And you can notice some stability and reduction in the trade down. A lot of the trade down that took place happened.

那麼，回到我對若奧的回答，我們向經銷商大眾流失的銷售量。但當你考慮到消費者大眾時，門票肯定是有收益的。您可以注意到貿易下降的一些穩定性和減少。許多交易的下跌都發生了。

But the categories that we consider indulgence, that are some products that were impacted due to the reduction of our package size. If the customer used to buy four packages of cookies or 200 grams, four for 180 gram four of 160 gram, four of 120, four of 100 grams and just gradually reducing. That's their way to keep the penetration after the inflationary period. But what we noticed is that in the last few months, this trend has also reached a level that is going to -- not going to advance anymore.

但我們認為放縱的類別是由於我們的包裝尺寸減小而受到影響的一些產品。如果顧客以前買四包200克的餅乾，四包180克，四包160克，四包120克，四包100克，然後逐漸減少。這是他們在通貨膨脹期後保持滲透率的方法。但我們注意到，在過去的幾個月裡，這種趨勢也達到了一個不會再繼續發展的水平。

So although we also expected that the worst is past us, when you look at the economic activity, the levels of unemployment, all of this, even with this new cycle and peaks, we don't imagine any reduction in the purchase power of the population. So we didn't have this volume and you even noticed this. And this new drop, it's not something we look at among consumers and imagine this could happen, right?

因此，儘管我們也預期最壞的情況已經過去，但當你看看經濟活動、失業率水平等所有這些時，即使在這個新的周期和高峰期，我們也不認為消費者的購買力會下降。人口。所以我們沒有這本書，你甚至注意到了這一點。而這種新的下降，我們不會在消費者中看到並想像這種情況會發生，對吧？

Excellent. Thank you so much for that.

出色的。非常感謝你。

Eric Huang, Santander.

埃里克·黃，桑坦德銀行。

Good morning, everyone. And thanks for taking our question. We have two points. One is looking at the services a bit when you see even in some stores, they haven't been 100% deployed, but I want to understand what this could represent when it comes to the upside, revenues and margins for 2025.

大家早安。感謝您提出我們的問題。我們有兩點。人們會稍微關註一下這些服務，即使在一些商店中，它們也沒有 100% 部署，但我想了解這對 2025 年的成長、收入和利潤率來說意味著什麼。

And also the second point is when you look at the working capital dynamic, Belmiro, you mentioned that we should keep our eyes open in regards to this and search for ways to optimize cash generation. But we've seen things a little more stable and maybe even your communication has been another stability lines. But I just want to understand if you've seen new opportunities and things like that and -- or if this is more like about maintenance in this disciplined focus here?

第二點是，當您查看營運資本動態時，貝爾米羅，您提到我們應該對此保持警惕並尋找優化現金生成的方法。但我們已經看到事情變得更加穩定了，也許你們的溝通也是另一條穩定線。但我只是想了解您是否看到了新的機會和類似的事情，或者這是否更像是在這個嚴格的焦點中進行維護？

Obviously, when it comes to working capital, we've seen stability that we've already mentioned in the previous quarters, and the company is always searching for ways to find new opportunities. But we think that even though they have this, it's probably not going to be that different for 2025. There's more of a management perspective when it comes to stock.

顯然，在營運資本方面，我們已經看到了前幾季提到的穩定性，而公司一直在尋找新機會的方法。但我們認為，即使他們有這個，到 2025 年可能不會有什麼不同。當談到庫存時，更多的是管理視角。

And Wlamir, you can add on to this. I think when we talk about optimization of the stocks and discipline, of course, we're always searching for a little more payment conditions. But of course, also wanted him to talk about this because a lot of the stores still need licenses or other things that we're implementing. So a good part of these stores have upsides that are still pretty good in the margins. And when they consolidate the flow and even explore new product categories. Do you want to talk about the working capital, Wlamir?

Wlamir，你可以補充一下。我認為，當我們談論股票和紀律的優化時，當然，我們總是在尋找更多的付款條件。但當然，也希望他談論這個，因為很多商店仍然需要許可證或我們正在實施的其他事情。因此，這些商店中的很大一部分都具有利潤率仍然相當不錯的優勢。當他們整合流程甚至探索新的產品類別時。Wlamir，您想談談營運資金嗎？

Well, yes. First of all, good morning, everyone. And to add on to this, in the last quarters, I talked about discipline a lot and how we have this with working capital. And this is going to be maintained, right? Because sometimes we may have some seasonality like we see now in the end of the third quarter, beginning of the fourth quarter where we stock up a little more, considering Black Friday and set up a stock for seasonal items where we can balance this out in December, and we have these movements.

嗯，是的。首先，大家早安。除此之外，在過去的幾個季度中，我多次談到了紀律以及我們如何利用營運資金來實現這一點。這將被維持，對吧？因為有時我們可能會有一些季節性，就像我們現在在第三季末、第四季初看到的那樣，考慮到黑色星期五，我們會多儲備一點，並為季節性商品建立庫存，這樣我們就可以在十二月，我們有這些動作。

I think we had in the past, it's not that distant some volatility in our working capital. But then that's more related to our expansion rhythm and the growth of the 117 stores. But from now on, considering an expansion pace, it's a little bit slower. We should keep a working capital that's pretty balanced.

我認為我們過去的營運資金波動並不是那麼遙遠。但這更多與我們的擴張節奏和117家門市的成長有關。但從現在來看，考慮到擴張速度，就慢了一些。我們應該保持相當平衡的營運資金。

And of course, we're always negotiating longer terms and to be able to support a good part of our operations that are not supplied by distribution centers. And so we really need to have more stock in these markets. But of course, finding a balance point between seasonality and sales and setting up the stocks. And so we have to keep up this discipline that we've been demonstrating in the last few years. I hope to have answered your question, Eric.

當然，我們總是在談判更長的期限，以便能夠支援配送中心不提供的大部分業務。因此，我們確實需要在這些市場上擁有更多庫存。但當然，要在季節性和銷售之間找到平衡並建立庫存。因此，我們必須保持過去幾年所展現的這項紀律。我希望能夠回答你的問題，艾瑞克。

Once again, when we take a look at the new services, we still have many ramps. And so just to mention, we add this to over 90 stores. And so it's over 190 services. And we're still working on the stores that have many opportunities. And these are projects with stores that started 1 month ago, 2 months ago.

再次，當我們審視新服務時，我們仍然有很多坡道。順便提一下，我們將其添加到了 90 多家商店。總共有超過 190 項服務。我們仍在努力開發有很多機會的商店。這些是 1 個月前、2 個月前開始的商店專案。

And so we're still working on evolving with this. And so we start -- within this month, we have about over 40 services, and they've been gaining evolution and greater substance. And that brings, of course, new customers, and we've been adding even more. And so we end the year adding even more in this project. So that's an opportunity, and it's a project that has very positive results.

因此，我們仍在努力發展這一點。所以我們開始 - 在這個月內，我們擁有大約 40 多項服務，它們一直在不斷發展和更豐富的內容。當然，這帶來了新客戶，而且我們一直在增加更多客戶。因此，我們在今年年底在這個項目中添加了更多內容。所以這是一個機會，也是一個取得了非常正面成果的專案。

So considering this, it's a new project. There's a significant evolution. It's been growing year-over-year, and there's still a lot to mature and many opportunities for us to continue to work on. This is a learning process. We're evolving and growing, and we've seen categories we can evolve and still.

因此考慮到這一點，這是一個新項目。有一個重大的演變。它逐年成長，還有很多需要成熟的地方，還有很多機會讓我們繼續努力。這是一個學習的過程。我們正在不斷發展和成長，我們已經看到了我們可以不斷發展和發展的類別。

And so within the services, we've been working on the evolution. And I hope that -- well, this has been very positive and been growing year-over-year. And so that's very clear. Thank you.

因此，在服務方面，我們一直在努力發展。我希望——嗯，這是非常積極的，並且逐年增長。這非常清楚。謝謝。

Luiz Felipe Guanais, BTG.

路易斯·費利佩·瓜奈斯，BTG。

Good morning, Belmiro, Vitor. My question here, if you could talk about the dispersion in the performance per region throughout the quarter and how you've seen this, if there's a specific region that maybe has stood out more when it comes to performance?

早安，貝爾米羅，維托爾。我的問題是，您是否可以談談整個季度每個地區業績的分散情況，以及您如何看待這一點，是否有一個特定地區在業績方面可能表現得更為突出？

And then a second question, if you could talk about cannibalization, especially for the stores that are converted. So you talked about a sales number for the converted store compared to the legacy stores? Thank you.

然後是第二個問題，您是否可以談論蠶食，特別是對於被改造的商店。那麼您談到了改造後的商店與舊商店相比的銷售數字？謝謝。

Thank you, Guanais. Per region, we haven't noticed much of a difference. Of course, you have markets where you had more expansion like the North and the Northeast of other competitors where you obviously have a bigger impact. But when it comes to the behavior of the customer even performance, it's really in line with the numbers we have seen in the second and third quarter. So you can notice that the big movements have been taking place nationally, and there's no type of atypical conditions in any other region.

謝謝你，瓜奈斯。對於每個地區，我們沒有註意到太大的差異。當然，你也有一些市場，你有更多的擴張，例如其他競爭對手的北部和東北部，你顯然在這些市場有更大的影響力。但當涉及客戶行為甚至績效時，它確實與我們在第二季和第三季看到的數字相符。所以你可以注意到，大的運動已經在全國範圍內發生，並且在任何其他地區都沒有任何非典型情況。

Cannibalization was something that was already expected in the project. So there's a project we're working on in the legacy with this revitalization, deploying new services.` And if you look at the sales per square meter, so they would - customers would go to Assai that were more distant.

蠶食是這個專案中已經預料到的事情。因此，我們正在進行一個項目，以振興傳統，部署新服務。如果你看看每平方公尺的銷售額，你會發現──顧客會去更遠的阿賽。

And as you open a new store, that's really closer to them, especially considering the foodservice, they migrate to stores that have better locations. Sometimes because we have prices that are more competitive from beginning, which is the opening period. And then we also want to attract customers to the other stores, right, that may be lost customers.

當你開設一家新商店時，這離他們真的很近，特別是考慮到餐飲服務，他們會遷移到位置更好的商店。有時是因為我們從一開始（即開業期間）的價格就更具競爭力。然後我們還要把顧客吸引到其他店，對吧，那可能會流失顧客。

So we'll still see some more stability in this front with the major entrance into new stores, not only ours, but also with the conversions that the market has had. And that, of course, made us consider the cash and carry has converted a lot of customers, especially with end customers when it comes to store openings.

因此，隨著新商店的大量進入，我們仍然會看到這方面更加穩定，不僅是我們的商店，而且還有市場的轉變。當然，這讓我們認為現購自運改變了許多顧客，特別是在開店時的最終顧客。

So you have this period where the stores continued, but -- and so we should have a more stabilized vision. And so we'll be able to start the cycle and that really happened for quite a while, but we're still reaching two years from now on. And so then we should start seeing this more stable from 2025 onwards.

所以，在這個時期，商店仍在繼續，但是——所以我們應該有一個更穩定的願景。因此，我們將能夠開始這個週期，這確實發生了相當長一段時間，但從現在開始我們仍將達到兩年。因此，從 2025 年開始，我們應該會看到這種情況更加穩定。

So thank you so much, Belmiro.

非常感謝你，貝爾米羅。

Irma Sgarz, Goldman Sachs.

艾爾瑪·斯加茲，高盛。

Good morning. Almost good afternoon. But thanks for the question. Taking my question. I want to just quickly ask about the inclusion of new categories of products in certain stores or even in the mix of products overall in stores and how this has been advancing. I know we're still in the beginning of this project, but we wanted to think a little more on this and understand how this can impact not only the sales, but also the margins and the lessons learned you've seen so far.

早安.差不多下午好。但謝謝你的提問。回答我的問題。我想快速詢問一下某些商店中新產品類別的納入情況，甚至是商店整體產品組合中的情況，以及這方面的進展如何。我知道我們仍處於該專案的開始階段，但我們想對此進行更多思考，並了解這不僅會影響銷售，還會影響利潤率以及您迄今為止所學到的經驗教訓。

Obviously, Irma, we've already highlighted that considering our flow and everything we've been discussing. We've seen improvements in the current existing capacities. And on the third, we'll have the Investor -- 13th, we'll have the Investor Day, and we'll bring in some interesting numbers that are probably going to be impressive for a lot of people listening. I didn't want to give you the spoiler, right, but we'll leave some stuff to the Investor Day.

顯然，艾爾瑪，考慮到我們的流程和我們一直在討論的一切，我們已經強調了這一點。我們已經看到當前現有能力的改進。第三天，我們將舉行投資者日——13 日，我們將舉行投資者日，我們將帶來一些有趣的數字，這些數字可能會給許多聽眾留下深刻的印象。我不想劇透，對吧，但我們會把一些東西留到投資者日。

But yes, that gives us a lot of opportunities, right? We have a lot of opportunities. And we have players that sell products that are sometimes not that obvious when you talk about the food sector, right? So a lot of the things I would talk about were almost unimaginable that a cash and carry company in Brazil would be the brand that's most well-known for or even get an award from with the best and greatest. So as I mentioned.

但是，是的，這給了我們很多機會，對嗎？我們有很多機會。我們有些公司銷售的產品有時在食品業並不那麼明顯，對吧？因此，我要談論的很多事情幾乎難以想像，巴西的一家現購自運公司會成為最知名的品牌，甚至獲得最佳和最偉大的獎項。正如我所提到的。

We had to perform some adjustments also on the products that we're working with. But there's some other pilot projects underway, and there's an opportunity that's really clear in our vision for sales of services, but also new products looking at the current existing flow. So you can see customers have become more omnichannel.

我們還必須對我們正在使用的產品進行一些調整。但還有一些其他試點計畫正在進行中，我們對服務銷售的願景非常明確，而且還有著眼於當前現有流程的新產品。所以你可以看到客戶變得更加全通路。

They resist less if the product is at a good price at the moment of the purchase when it comes to the actual online or when it comes to physical stores, that's something that's valid for both sides, right? So there's a lot of opportunities, yes. And if you be with us on the 13th, I think it's really worth it.

如果產品在購買時價格合理，無論是在網路上還是在實體店，他們的抵制就會減少，這對雙方都有效，對嗎？所以有很多機會，是的。如果你13日能和我們在一起，我認為這真的很值得。

Okay, perfect. Thank you. We're quite excited.

好的，完美。謝謝。我們很興奮。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Rodrigo (inaudible) Itau BBA.

Rodrigo（聽不清楚）Itau BBA。

Good morning guys two questions here on my side. First, Belmiro was talking about if you could - I just wanted to know if you could help us understand the trade-off between the gross margins and sales because you had a same-store that was below inflation, but you had 20 bps margin growth. So how do you equate this internally? Because same-store below inflation may seem a little more difficult.

早安，大家好，我這邊有兩個問題。首先，貝爾米羅談論的是你是否可以- 我只是想知道你是否可以幫助我們理解毛利率和銷售額之間的權衡，因為你有一家低於通貨膨脹率的同店，但你的利潤增長了20 個基點。那麼你如何在內部將其等同起來呢？因為同店低於通膨可能看起來有點困難。

But on the other hand, you didn't have pressure on the gross margin. So how do you imagine this over time? How do you balance this out commercially and when you consider this trade-off, right? And so the second one for Faga, could you give us some update strategically on what you're expecting to do at the financial level?

但另一方面，毛利率沒有壓力。那麼隨著時間的推移，您如何想像這一點？當你考慮這種權衡時，你如何在商業上平衡這一點，對吧？Faga 的第二個問題是，您能否從策略上向我們介紹您希望在財務層面做什麼？

Well, I'm going to answer that first one. And when it comes to balancing out the sales and margins, I think it's super important for us to see this in a very separate manner between what is for the consumer and what's considered for the individual or B2B customers. That's the first point we need to highlight, right? We brought this in many speeches because now we've seen some market movements where it's not only about margins, our volumes of sales.

好吧，我要回答第一個問題。當談到平衡銷售額和利潤時，我認為對我們來說，以非常獨立的方式看待面向消費者的內容和個人或 B2B 客戶的導向考慮是非常重要的。這是我們需要強調的第一點，對吧？我們在許多演講中都提到了這一點，因為現在我們看到了一些市場趨勢，這不僅與利潤率有關，還與我們的銷售有關。

But obviously, it's -- we work with the resellers, right? And then we have to look at separately, right, what's considered. For consumers it didn't really make sense to increase the promotional levels, but especially when you consider the reduction of the packaging and our search is to really improve purchase experience and conquer new customers when it comes to the consumer. And of course, also keeping up this recurrence in this public. And so when you consider the volumes of sales, we analyze this separately, right?

但顯然，我們與經銷商合作，對吧？然後我們必須分別考慮，對吧，考慮了什麼。對於消費者來說，提高促銷水平並沒有多大意義，但特別是當你考慮到包裝的減少時，我們的目標是真正改善購買體驗並征服新客戶。當然，也要在公眾場合保持這種重複。因此，當您考慮銷售量時，我們會單獨分析，對吧？

So the levels of efforts we need to have for this reseller public to have the better same-store sales where we see the public goes by a store for competitor A, B, C, D, E and they're always going to look at what's the best opportunity.

因此，我們需要付出多大的努力才能讓經銷商大眾獲得更好的同店銷售，我們看到大眾經過競爭對手 A、B、C、D、E 的商店，並且他們總是會關注最好的機會是什麼。

And then we have pricing and also timing or payment conditions. And then when you consider the timing for a public that's not going to be loyal. We always knew this. This is part of the model of the cash and carry model. And so -- and once again, you're going to have a same store that's below, but if they're concentrated in this public and the level of investments, margins, the working capital that we would have to have to keep this at an adequate level.

然後我們有定價以及時間或付款條件。然後當你考慮到公眾不會忠誠的時機時。我們一直都知道這一點。這是現購自運模式的一部分。所以，再一次，你將擁有下面的同一家商店，但如果它們集中在這個公眾中，那麼我們必須將投資水平、利潤率、營運資金保持在足夠的水平。

And that could, in some way, contaminate another public, we judge this to be uninteresting. So we can coexist with stores that are better when you look at the total geography as long as when we look at this, we can still be in line with the inflation, maybe because of the level of efforts or even risking capital would be really big. And that wouldn't change the future decision on this customer, right? So that happens in wholesale distribution, but also when you have part of the sale of the cash and carry. I hope that was clear.

這可能會以某種方式污染其他公眾，我們認為這無趣。所以我們可以和那些從整體地理來看更好的商店共存，只要我們從這個角度來看，我們仍然可以與通貨膨脹保持一致，也許因為努力程度甚至風險資本會很大。這不會改變未來對該客戶的決定，對吧？這種情況發生在批發分銷中，而且當你有部分現金和自運銷售時也會發生這種情況。我希望這是清楚的。

When you consider this payment condition timing, it's really relevant. You haven't accompanied this, and I think that was very clear. So do you guys see other competitors monitoring this, eventually, the regional players that maybe still have like a good profitable model or ROIC going through part of this successive ROIC onto the payment terms? Is this a specific condition for the Atacadao? Or do you also see other competitors that are migrating in this kind of payment condition situation?

當您考慮此付款條件時間時，它確實很重要。你沒有陪伴過這個，我想這已經很清楚了。那麼，你們是否看到其他競爭對手正在監控這一點，最終，可能仍然擁有良好盈利模式或ROIC的區域參與者將連續ROIC的一部分納入付款條件？這是阿塔卡達人的特殊情況嗎？或者您是否也看到其他競爭對手正在這種付款條件下遷移？

Well, we saw one occasional initiative in Sao Paulo, but I think that now with this new interest curve and this other issue of the financial costs, we -- apparently, no one really desires to keep up with this. So it's like as if you were to pay a meal at the restaurant in three installments, right?

好吧，我們在聖保羅偶爾看到了一項舉措，但我認為現在有了這條新的利率曲線和另一個財務成本問題，我們 - 顯然，沒有人真正願意跟上這一點。就好像你在餐廳吃飯要分三期付款一樣，對吧？

So there's -- it doesn't really make sense. So anyways, each company has their own way of deciding their strategies, but our focus is to not do this, right? So most of the market also has chosen to not follow this trend that Atacadao started.

所以這確實沒有意義。所以無論如何，每家公司都有自己決定策略的方式，但我們的重點是不這樣做，對嗎？因此，大多數市場也選擇不追隨阿塔卡道發起的趨勢。

Great. Thank you, Belmiro. And so now we're going to talk about FIC, our FIC credit negotiation. So first, how is this doing? Well, it's a good operation right now, and it's an operation that supports our customers as individuals and that has been generating good dividends as you've been seeing.

偉大的。謝謝你，貝爾米羅。現在我們要談談 FIC，我們的 FIC 信用談判。首先，這件事進展如何？嗯，現在這是一項很好的業務，它為我們的個人客戶提供支持，正如您所看到的那樣，一直在產生良好的股息。

And operationally, there's not that much friction. But that's an operation that works for -- of course, with the other partners that are part of FIC, we search for additional alternatives and possible changes and improvements of the business model so that we can service customers even better as individuals. So this is part of this analysis.

在操作上，沒有那麼多摩擦。但這是一種有效的運作——當然，我們與 FIC 的其他合作夥伴一起尋找其他替代方案以及業務模式可能的改變和改進，以便我們能夠作為個人更好地為客戶提供服務。這是本次分析的一部分。

Another part of this analysis is the development of products for B2B customers, something that FIC doesn't have. We've been working on the development of a project that could provide some services at this moment that are specifically related to sub-acquiring.

分析的另一部分是針對 B2B 客戶的產品開發，這是 FIC 所沒有的。我們一直致力於開發一個項目，目前可以提供一些與子收購特別相關的服務。

And also along with this, work with an increase in loyalty from these B2B customers and, of course, monitor the information and data from these customers. So this is a project that is underway. We're developing this business model and we'll bring in more evolution as soon as we have other points to highlight.

同時，也要提高這些 B2B 客戶的忠誠度，當然也要監控這些客戶的資訊和數據。這是一個正在進行中的項目。我們正在發展這種商業模式，一旦我們有其他需要強調的點，我們就會帶來更多的發展。

Great for that. Thanks for the answer.

非常適合這個。感謝您的回答。

Vinicius Strano, UBS.

維尼修斯‧斯特拉諾，瑞銀集團。

Could you talk about how the dynamic has been when you look at the legacy store versus converted? And what do you imagine when you consider the ramp-up -- when you consider the maturity of the Extra stores? And when you look at -- second question, and if you could see the profile of the cities that you intend to go into and how you consider the competition in these new areas and also the size of the stores that you expect to work with ahead?

能談談傳統商店與轉型後的動態如何嗎？當你考慮擴張時——當你考慮 Extra 商店的成熟度時，你會想到什麼？當你看第二個問題時，你是否能看到你打算進入的城市的概況，以及你如何看待這些新領域的競爭，以及你期望未來合作的商店的規模？

Thanks, Vinicius. And the stores that are converted, they operate with a gross margin level that's higher considering the location and even the greater amount of customers, especially A and B customers. In our vision, there's still room for evolution of this gross margin, as you mentioned beginning of the project. We looked at the food sector in '23 and '24 and maybe that was below what we expected.

謝謝，維尼修斯。對於轉型後的商店，考慮到地理位置以及更多的顧客，尤其是 A 和 B 顧客，它們的毛利率水平更高。在我們的願景中，正如您在專案開始時提到的那樣，毛利率仍有發展空間。我們研究了 23 和 24 年的食品產業，也許這低於我們的預期。

So we were more careful about these movements. And there's a lot of adjustments also when it comes to category assortments that could be included in our vision, bringing in -- we want to leave some surprises for the Investor Day, right?

所以我們對這些動作更加小心。當涉及到我們的願景中可以包含的類別分類時，也有很多調整，引入——我們希望為投資者日留下一些驚喜，對嗎？

But we'll be able to provide even more details or granularity about this. And these stores are determining for this new evolution of the cash and carry. And if you've been accompanying as you know how much we were able to rapture paradigms, and we've already talked about how this model is either at its limit is really wrong, right? So yes, there's room even when you consider the location and the level of customers and what we're able to deliver today, keeping our expenses under control.

但我們將能夠提供更多細節或粒度。這些商店正在決定現金和自運的新發展。如果您一直在陪伴，因為您知道我們能夠在多大程度上欣喜若狂，並且我們已經討論過該模型如何處於其極限，這確實是錯誤的，對吧？所以，是的，即使考慮到位置、客戶水平以及我們今天能夠提供的服務，仍然有空間，從而控制我們的開支。

So when it comes to expansion, we have two important movements. One is really occupying the cities and states. States that we're already present in, where we don't have stores, Assai stores. So the first store in San Jose is going to come in this year. The second one, which is going to be opened in 2025.

因此，在擴張方面，我們有兩個重要的舉措。一是真正佔領城市和州。我們已經在哪些州開設了 Assai 商店，但我們還沒有商店。因此，聖荷西的第一家商店將於今年開業。第二個項目將於 2025 年開放。

And we're trying to place Angel also, we still don't have stores there, Osasco as well. We only have one store there. We have important projects there. And as we hold this land bank, and we want to make sure the breakeven is happening as quick as possible, and we want to make sure we have the best projects in the company.

我們也試著在那裡開設 Angel，但我們仍然沒有商店，Osasco 也是如此。我們在那裡只有一家商店。我們在那裡有重要的項目。當我們持有這個土地儲備時，我們希望確保盡快實現盈虧平衡，並且我們希望確保我們擁有公司最好的項目。

We have stores that are smaller that are being assessed -- for example, Rio de Janeiro, 2 projects there that have 3,000, 3,800 square meters. So there's some granularity. But if you consider all of the players in Brazil, the player that has the biggest diversity in store networks is Assai. We have stores that are like 1,800 square meters all the way to 9,000 square meter sales area.

我們正在評估較小的商店 - 例如，裡約熱內盧，那裡有 2 個項目，面積分別為 3,000 和 3,800 平方米。所以有一定的粒度。但如果考慮巴西的所有玩家，商店網路多樣性最大的玩家是 Assai。我們的商店面積從1800平方米一直到9000平方米的銷售面積。

So this capacity we have in the store network really gives us the expertise. And so when we talk about this area, we're not only talking about the store. We're talking about logistics. We're talking about the equipment, we -- supply and expose merchandise at the stores, changes the load of the flooring in each store.

因此，我們在商店網路中擁有的能力確實為我們提供了專業知識。因此，當我們談論這個區域時，我們不僅僅是在談論商店。我們正在談論物流。我們談論的是設備，我們在商店供應和展示商品，改變每個商店地板的負載。

And so if you have a region where you need to have a store that's 5,600 or 6,300, that's going to be done anyways. And if necessary, we understand that a store that's like 2,800, 3,000 as you can see, will also be done. So this diversity also gives us the necessary capacity to expand in the future especially when we consider central markets, right?

因此，如果您所在地區需要開設 5,600 或 6,300 家商店，那麼無論如何都會這樣做。如果有必要，據我們了解，您可以看到的 2,800、3,000 家商店也將建成。因此，這種多樣性也為我們提供了未來擴張的必要能力，尤其是當我們考慮中心市場時，對嗎？

So the northern region with 2.5 million inhabitants, we only have three stores there. So there's still a lot of room. And when you see opportunities in the real estate market, there's definitely difficulties, but the Brazilian metropolitan regions are -- when you consider obtaining the licenses, it takes quite a while. But that's one of the main motivators within the evolution of the Extra points. But expansion is really focused in regions where Assai is already present with quick breakevens and ROIC in the levels that the company expects to achieve.

所以在擁有250萬居民的北部地區，我們在那裡只有3家商店。所以還有很大的空間。當你看到房地產市場的機會時，肯定會遇到困難，但巴西大都市地區是——當你考慮獲得許可證時，需要相當長的時間。但這是額外積分發展的主要動力之一。但擴張真正集中在 Assai 已經實現快速盈虧平衡和投資回報率達到公司預期水平的地區。

Perfect. Thank you, Belmiro.

完美的。謝謝你，貝爾米羅。

Gustavo (inaudible) Bank of America.

古斯塔沃（聽不清楚）：美國銀行。

Hi Belmiro and Faga. Thanks guys for the question I just want to get back to the performance of B2B. If you could give us a little more color on that and how different that was when you look at the same-store sales performance considering B2B versus B2C? And how much the B2B is may be impacted by this offering of credit from your competitor?

嗨，貝爾米羅和法加。謝謝大家提出問題，我只想回到 B2B 的表現。您能否提供我們更多資訊？B2B 可能會受到競爭對手提供的信貸的影響有多大？

And also another point, I don't want to anticipate things too much since you're going to -- I don't want to give us a spoiler about the Investor Day, but some of the new categories that you're going to introduce, maybe can they be done with private labels? Or is that not considered yet? Thank you.

還有一點，我不想過多地預測事情，因為我不想給我們透露有關投資者日的劇透，但你將要了解的一些新類別介紹一下，也許他們可以用自有品牌來做？或者說還沒考慮到？謝謝。

Well, nothing is disconsidered actually, and these truths kind of change within the innovation area. We're always reviewing this and the trend of what we're going to be presenting in the Investor Day, right? Of course, Brazil always had some difficulties when it comes to private brand. And so in the future, new opportunities can come up. Nothing is going to be discarded.

好吧，實際上沒有什麼是被忽視的，而且這些事實在創新領域內發生了一些變化。我們一直在回顧這一點以及我們將在投資者日展示的趨勢，對吧？當然，巴西在發展自有品牌方面總是遇到一些困難。因此，未來可能會出現新的機會。沒有任何東西會被丟棄。

And so when I had this invitation to see how many modifications and how many things we started working on that no one really believed in and that we're very successful later on. So the dynamic is a little bit different in B2C and B2B. It's always been like a new component with the timing, which, of course, makes -- for this kind of customer, the interest in the month is what they're getting as credit card anticipation, right? So it's how much it costs to anticipate receivables.

因此，當我收到邀請，看看我們開始做多少修改和做多少事情時，沒有人真正相信，但我們後來非常成功。因此，B2C 和 B2B 的動態略有不同。它總是像一個新的時間組件，當然，對於這類客戶來說，當月的利息就是他們作為信用卡預期獲得的，對嗎？所以這是預測應收帳款的成本。

So this kind of customer has a bit of sensitivity, and that did lead to a different dynamic. In September, for example, we had a strong competitive movement on B2B with proposal for payment terms that were a little higher, and we chose to not follow along with that because that could impact the other publics in the company.

所以這類客戶有一點敏感性，這確實導致了不同的動態。例如，9 月份，我們在 B2B 領域出現了激烈的競爭，提議的付款條件稍高一些，但我們選擇不跟進，因為這可能會影響公司的其他公眾。

So we need keep up with even more quarters to see what this dynamic is going to be. So as we've seen, this is really focused on cash preserving. And if we need to work on this recurring level, the company could maybe take on more competitive measures.

因此，我們需要關注更多季度的情況才能了解這種動態將會如何。正如我們所看到的，這實際上是為了現金保存。如果我們需要在這個經常性的層面上開展工作，公司也許可以採取更具競爭力的措施。

But that's not what we've seen at the moment, right? That's always been part of a market dynamic. And even when you see what's affected, you can see maybe adjusting 1% or 2% of the overall sales, but maybe the level of efforts we would have - wouldn't have led to the cash deliveries. And we would have said that the debt dropped or that we were mentioning this within the fourth quarter, for example. I think that's it.

但這不是我們目前看到的，對吧？這一直是市場動態的一部分。即使當您看到受到影響的情況時，您也可以看到可能會調整整體銷售額的 1% 或 2%，但也許我們的努力程度不會帶來現金交付。例如，我們會說債務下降了，或者我們在第四季度內提到了這一點。我想就是這樣。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Daniela Bretthauer, HSBC.

丹妮拉·布雷托爾，匯豐銀行。

Thanks for taking my question. The last one really. Let's see, we have a question for Vitor. I want to understand the issue with the strategy considering the discount on receivables because you guys had a reduction in the average discount as we were seeing last year about BRL2.6 billion. Now it's about BRL1.6 billion.

感謝您提出我的問題。真的最後一張了讓我們想想，我們有一個問題想問 Vitor。我想了解考慮應收帳款折扣的策略問題，因為你們的平均折扣有所減少，正如我們去年看到的約 26 億雷亞爾。現在約 16 億雷亞爾。

And of course, this reflex is in your average applied cash position, but not specifically in the fourth quarter, but where you have better seasonality. But naturally, you're going to have a lower need for discounts. But when you consider this in 2025, what can we include in our models in our strategy models when you consider the discount receivables?

當然，這種反射是在你的平均應用現金部位中，但不是特別是在第四季度，但你有更好的季節性。但自然地，您對折扣的需求就會降低。但是，當您在 2025 年考慮這一點時，當您考慮應收折扣時，我們的策略模型中可以包含哪些內容？

And alongside this component, we have two other derivatives, right? One is if you guys would be able to share what the savings were like when we didn't have that debt anymore for the hypermarket payments and how much each of these decisions to reduce the discount for receivables would also generate as savings, right?

除了這個組件之外，我們還有另外兩個衍生品，對吧？一是你們是否能夠分享當我們不再有大賣場付款的債務時節省的情況，以及減少應收帳款折扣的每項決定也會產生多少節省，對吧？

Daniela, thanks for the question. When you look at the discount receivables, we can see that from now on, gradually, there is what the company has more capital and also, we see the need for discounts that are smaller for receivables throughout the quarter. So that's also, of course, from a relative perspective, right, because the company grows and will generate more receivables, taking on similar conditions for payments.

丹妮拉，謝謝你的提問。當你查看應收帳款折扣時，我們可以看到，從現在開始，公司逐漸擁有更多資本，我們看到整個季度應收帳款需要較小的折扣。當然，從相對的角度來看，這也是正確的，因為公司不斷發展，將產生更多的應收帳款，並採取類似的付款條件。

So we expect to have a reduction gradually in the discounts and receivables. And that's because of the strategy that the company has with more capital and needing less discounts on receivables in a recurring manner in between months and quarters. So that's the first point.

因此，我們預計折扣和應收帳款將逐漸減少。這是因為該公司採取的策略是在幾個月和幾季之間定期提供更多的資本和更少的應收帳款折扣。這是第一點。

And then, of course, when you see this deleveraging and reduction of debt over the year of 2025, as we've already discussed here, this becomes even more evident. But this strategy must be readjusted as we have more conditions in the debt market, right? As we've already mentioned, we took advantage of two important operations this year, considering the debt market also that was quite favorable. And if we have more opportunities throughout the next quarters, we'll be able to use these.

當然，當你看到 2025 年的去槓桿化和債務減少時，正如我們已經在這裡討論的那樣，這一點變得更加明顯。但隨著債務市場的條件增多，這項策略必須重新調整，對嗎？正如我們已經提到的，考慮到債務市場也相當有利，我們今年利用了兩項重要業務。如果我們在接下來的幾個季度有更多機會，我們將能夠利用這些機會。

When it comes to the impact of the markets with the non-recognition of interest rates considering the debt, there's a net effect of about BRL40 million and that's annualized, our financial results in the quarter, right? Yeah, quarterly for this quarter.

考慮到債務，不承認利率對市場的影響，淨影響約為 4000 萬雷亞爾，按年化計算，我們本季的財務業績，對嗎？是的，本季每季一次。

And that was quite similar to the previous quarter, where we had the payment of the last installment in January. And so that's where you can see the results and the saving, right? And then about the discount on receivables, we can see in the comparison quarter-over-quarter that there is a cost of BRL10 million less than the discounts on receivable.

這與上一季非常相似，我們在一月份支付了最後一期付款。這就是您可以看到結果和節省的地方，對嗎？然後關於應收帳款折扣，我們可以看到環比應收帳款折扣少了1000萬雷亞爾的成本。

So that was BRL30 million in the third quarter of last year to BRL20 million. And so you have a significant reduction on the discounts. And on the other hand, of course, you have debt in the balance sheet that is structured in the long term. So specifically, when it comes to discounts on receivable, the account was BRL30 million in the third quarter of last year - sorry, of last quarter versus BRL20 million in this quarter.

從去年第三季的 3,000 萬雷亞爾增至 2,000 萬雷亞爾。這樣你的折扣就大大減少了。另一方面，當然，資產負債表中也有長期結構的債務。具體來說，當涉及到應收帳款折扣時，去年第三季度的帳戶為 3000 萬雷亞爾——抱歉，是上個季度的帳戶，而本季度為 2000 萬雷亞爾。

Okay. So just to make sure I got that and wrap up the explanation for 2025, we'll have two types of savings, right? One is where you don't have the payment anymore for the hypermarket. So you have these savings. And then also in your strategy of being more capitalized and reducing the discounts on receivables, you also have the savings that I'm understanding will lead to a cost that's actually greater than what you are being able to equate in your profile of debt. Is that it?

好的。因此，為了確保我明白這一點並總結 2025 年的解釋，我們將有兩種類型的儲蓄，對嗎？一種是你不再有大賣場的付款。所以你有這些積蓄。然後，在您增加資本化和減少應收帳款折扣的策略中，您還可以節省資金，據我了解，這將導致成本實際上高於您在債務狀況中所能估算的成本。是這樣嗎？

Well, first of all, yes, we don't have this expense anymore for 2025. And then also the expenses of discounts on receivables should be proportionately lower. But of course, always considering this disclaimer, right, we're increasing sales, so you generate more receivables. At some moment, you may nominally have a higher cost. But proportionately, the trend is that you'll have a reduction in this discount on receivable.

嗯，首先，是的，到 2025 年我們就不再有這項費用了。此外，應收帳款折扣費用也應相應降低。但當然，請始終考慮此免責聲明，對吧，我們正在增加銷售額，因此您會產生更多應收帳款。在某些時候，您名義上的成本可能會更高。但按比例來說，趨勢是應收帳款折扣會減少。

Okay. That's clear. Thank you.

好的。很清楚。謝謝。

The Q&A session is officially ended, and we would like to pass on the word to the company for their final remarks.

問答環節正式結束，謹向公司轉達最後的發言。

So once again, great questions that were addressed, and we want to reinforce the invitation to our Investor Day. And I want to thank you all and also thank the Board and the employees with all of their support to our work. Thank you so much. Let's head to the fourth quarter, which is the most important period in the year.

因此，我們再次解決了一些很好的問題，我們希望加強對投資者日的邀請。我要感謝大家，也感謝董事會和員工對我們工作的支持。太感謝了。讓我們進入第四季度，這是一年中最重要的時期。

When it comes to seasonality, it's really how - where the company is focused, and that's where we plan to really provide more information on the challenges and expectations for gains and improvements in the future. Thank you so much.

當談到季節性時，這實際上是公司關注的重點，這也是我們計劃真正提供更多有關未來收益和改進的挑戰和期望的資訊的地方。太感謝了。

The earnings call for the third quarter of 2024 is ended. And the department for Investor Relations is available to answer future questions. Thank you all so much, and have a great day.

2024 年第三季財報電話會議結束。投資人關係部門可以回答未來的問題。非常感謝大家，祝您有美好的一天。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本筆錄中的英語陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。口譯員由贊助本次活動的公司提供。