(APD) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Air Products Fourth Quarter Earnings Release Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded at the request of Air Products. Please note that this presentation and the comments made on behalf of Air Products are subject to copyright by Air Products, and all rights are reserved.

早安，歡迎參加空氣產品公司第四季財報發布電話會議。應空氣產品公司的要求，我們對今天的通話進行了錄音。請注意，本簡報和代表空氣產品公司發表的評論受空氣產品公司版權保護，並保留所有權利。

Beginning today's call is Mr. Sidd Manjeshwar. Please go ahead, sir.

今天的電話會議由 Sidd Manjeshwar 先生開始。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, Lynette. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Air Products' Fourth Quarter 2023 Earnings Results Teleconference. This is Sidd Manjeshwar, Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Treasurer. I'm pleased to be joined today by Seifi Ghasemi, our Chairman, President and CEO; Dr. Samir Serhan, our Chief Operating Officer; Melissa Schaeffer, our Chief Financial Officer; and Sean Major, our Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary.

謝謝你，萊內特。大家，早安。歡迎參加空氣產品公司 2023 年第四季獲利結果電話會議。我是西德‧曼傑什瓦爾 (Sidd Manjeshwar)，投資者關係副總裁兼公司財務主管。我很高興今天能與我們的董事長、總裁兼執行長 Seifi Ghasemi 一起出席會議。 Samir Serhan 博士，我們的營運長； Melissa Schaeffer，我們的財務長；以及我們的執行副總裁、總法律顧問兼秘書 Sean Major。

After our comments, we will be pleased to take your questions. Our earnings release and the slides for this call are available on our website at airproducts.com. Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements, including those about earnings and capital expenditure guidance, business outlook and investment opportunities. Please refer to the cautionary note regarding forward-looking statements that is provided in our earnings release and on Slide #2.

在我們提出意見後，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。我們的收益發布和本次電話會議的幻燈片可在我們的網站 airproducts.com 上取得。今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關收益和資本支出指導、業務前景和投資機會的陳述。請參閱我們的收益報告和投影片 #2 中提供的有關前瞻性陳述的警示說明。

Additionally, throughout today's discussion, we will refer to various financial measures, including earnings per share, operating income, operating margin, EBITDA, EBITDA margin, the effective tax rate and ROCE, both on a total company and segment basis. Unless we specifically state otherwise, statements regarding these measures are referring to our adjusted non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliation of these measures to our most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found on our website in the relevant earnings release section. Now with that, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Seifi.

此外，在今天的討論中，我們將參考公司整體和部門的各種財務指標，包括每股收益、營業收入、營業利潤率、EBITDA、EBITDA 利潤率、有效稅率和 ROCE。除非我們另有明確說明，否則有關這些措施的聲明指的是我們調整後的非公認會計準則財務措施。這些指標與我們最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的調整可以在我們網站的相關收益發布部分找到。現在，我很高興將電話轉給 Seifi。

Thank you, Sidd, and good day to everyone. Thank you for taking time from your very busy schedule to be on our call today. I would like to begin with the Slide #3, our safety performance which is our #1 priority at Air Products.

謝謝你，西德，祝大家有美好的一天。感謝您今天在百忙之中抽空接聽我們的電話。我想從投影片 #3 開始，我們的安全性能是空氣產品公司的第一要務。

I'm pleased to share that our safety record has improved compared to last year continuing the significant progress we have made since 2014. Our ultimate goal will always be zero incidents and zero accidents.

我很高興與大家分享，我們的安全記錄與去年相比有所改善，延續了我們自 2014 年以來取得的重大進展。我們的最終目標始終是零事故和零事故。

Now please turn to Slide #4, which summarizes our management philosophy. We reiterate these principles every quarter because they are fundamental to how we manage the company and continue to profitably grow our earnings per share.

現在請看投影片#4，它總結了我們的管理理念。我們每季都會重申這些原則，因為它們對於我們管理公司和持續提高每股盈餘的方式至關重要。

Now please turn to Slide #5. Air Products has a very strong business model and the long-term strategy to deliver consistent earnings growth for the short and the long term, and I stress the long term. Projects in our on-site business where we have long-term take-or-pay contracts with our customers drove our volume growth this year despite economic weakness across the regions. Our on-site business generates stable cash flow and consistently contribute about half of our total sales.

現在請翻到投影片 #5。空氣產品公司擁有非常強大的商業模式和長期策略，可以在短期和長期內實現持續的獲利成長，我強調長期。儘管各地區經濟疲軟，但我們與客戶簽訂長期照付不議合約的現場業務項目推動了我們今年銷售的成長。我們的現場業務產生穩定的現金流，並持續貢獻我們總銷售額的一半左右。

Also noteworthy is that strong pricing action in our merchant business as well as our ability to contractually pass through energy costs in our on-site business helped us mitigate inflation as well as higher power and energy costs, which we experienced last year. We also continue to successfully execute our long-term strategy to be the leader in blue and green hydrogen for the future with a significant number of green hydrogen, mega projects and their execution. Nobody in the world is matching what we are doing.

另外值得注意的是，我們的商業業務中強有力的定價行為以及我們在現場業務中透過合約轉嫁能源成本的能力幫助我們減輕了去年經歷的通貨膨脹以及更高的電力和能源成本。我們也繼續成功執行我們的長期策略，透過大量的綠氫、大型專案及其執行，成為未來藍色和綠色氫的領導者。世界上沒有人能與我們所做的事情相提並論。

Finally, our backlog of over $19 billion sets up a multiyear framework for double-digit earnings per share growth which has been our goal since 2014 and remains our goal for the future.

最後，我們超過 190 億美元的積壓訂單建立了每股收益兩位數成長的多年框架，這是我們自 2014 年以來的目標，也是我們未來的目標。

Now please turn to Slide #6. Our fourth quarter adjusted earnings of $3.15 per share exceeded the top end of our guidance for the quarter and improved $0.30 or 11% versus last year. For the full year fiscal 2023, our adjusted earnings per share of $11.51, improved $1.26 or 12% over prior year, continuing our strong track record of consistently delivering double-digit average earnings growth per share since 2014. We are very proud of the accomplishment in 2013 despite the unfavorable economic conditions.

現在請翻到幻燈片#6。我們第四季度的調整後每股收益為 3.15 美元，超出了我們本季指導的上限，比去年提高了 0.30 美元，即 11%。 2023 財年全年，我們的調整後每股收益為11.51 美元，比上年增長1.26 美元，即12%，延續了我們自2014 年以來持續實現兩位數平均每股收益增長的良好記錄。我們對此成就感到非常自豪2013年，儘管經濟狀況不利。

In addition to the strong results, we also made significant progress in our critical deployment -- in our capital deployment strategy this year. Jazan Phase II was completed, both Gulf Coast Ammonia and Jiutai are operational. NEOM project financing was more than 2x oversubscribed and closed successfully. We also added our 4 significant LNG sale of equipment projects. And I'm very pleased to announce that the natural gas-to-syngas facility in Uzbekistan is operational and contributing to our earnings.

除了強勁的業績之外，我們在關鍵部署方面（今年的資本部署策略）也取得了重大進展。吉贊二期完工，墨西哥灣氨廠和九台廠均已投產。 NEOM專案融資獲得超過2倍超額認購並成功完成。我們也增加了 4 個重要的液化天然氣設備銷售項目。我非常高興地宣布烏茲別克的天然氣合成氣設施已投入運作並為我們的收入做出貢獻。

Before I go any further, I want to take time to thank all of our employees around the world, every one of the 23,000 of them, for their dedication and hard work which has made it possible for us to deliver these impressive results despite significant economic and geopolitical headwinds.

在我繼續講下去之前，我想花點時間感謝我們在世界各地的所有員工，感謝他們中的每一位員工，感謝他們的奉獻和辛勤工作，正是他們的奉獻和辛勤工作使我們能夠在在經濟困難的情況下取得這些令人印象深刻的成果。和地緣政治阻力。

Now please turn to Slide #7. We are continuing to deliver on one we promised to our shareholders in 2014. Executing to deliver an average of at least 10% growth in earnings per share each year as we move forward. We believe our 2-pillar strategy of focusing on our base business, while extending our leadership in the growing demand for clean hydrogen, which enable us to continue to deliver double-digit growth in our EPS as we go forward.

現在請翻到幻燈片#7。我們將繼續兌現 2014 年向股東所做的承諾。在我們不斷前進的過程中，我們將實現每年平均至少 10% 的每股盈餘成長。我們相信，我們的兩大支柱策略是專注於我們的基礎業務，同時擴大我們在清潔氫日益增長的需求方面的領導地位，這使我們能夠在前進的過程中繼續實現每股收益兩位數的增長。

Now please turn to Slide #8. We are proud again of our accomplishment of more than 40 consecutive years of dividend increases. As you can see on this slide, since 2014, we have increased our dividend at an average of 10% every year.

現在請翻到幻燈片#8。我們再次為連續 40 多年增加股利的成就感到自豪。正如您在這張投影片中看到的，自 2014 年以來，我們每年平均增加 10% 的股息。

Slide #9 shows our EBITDA margin trend, continuing to be my favorite slide. Our margins have increased to nearly 40% in the second half of fiscal year 2023. Confirming the strength of our business model and the significant cash flow that we generate.

第 9 張投影片顯示了我們的 EBITDA 利潤率趨勢，仍然是我最喜歡的幻燈片。 2023 財年下半年，我們的利潤率已增至近 40%。這證實了我們業務模式的優勢以及我們產生的大量現金流。

Now please turn to Slide #10 for our fiscal year 2024 outlook and guidance. Although there will continue to be challenging economic conditions in the near term, I remain very optimistic about Air Products' future. Our capital deployment strategy and strong business model will sustain our double-digit average earning growth rate. Therefore, for fiscal year 2024, we expect adjusted earnings per share in the range of $12.80 to $13.10 per share, up 13% at the midpoint over last year. We expect new projects, many of which are already on stream to drive our earnings per share growth next year.

現在請前往投影片 #10，了解我們的 2024 財年展望與指引。儘管短期內經濟狀況仍將充滿挑戰，但我對空氣產品公司的未來仍然非常樂觀。我們的資本配置策略和強大的商業模式將維持我們兩位數的平均獲利成長率。因此，我們預計 2024 財年調整後每股收益將在 12.80 美元至 13.10 美元之間，比去年中位數成長 13%。我們預計新項目（其中許多已經投產）將推動我們明年的每股盈餘成長。

Additionally, we also expect improved LNG sale of equipment activities to add to our favorable results in 2024 and for the first quarter of 2024, our adjusted earnings per share guidance is $2.90 to $3.05, up 10% to 16% over last year. We also see our CapEx for next year, somewhere between $5 billion to $5.5 billion.

此外，我們也預期液化天然氣設備銷售活動的改善將為我們2024 年的良好業績增添動力，對於2024 年第一季度，我們調整後的每股盈餘指引為2.90 美元至3.05 美元，比去年成長10%至16%。我們也預計明年的資本支出將在 50 億至 55 億美元之間。

Now please turn to Slide #11. I know that some of our investors refer to our major project commitments slide to track our projects. However, the size and scale of these projects, which all have multiyear execution time frames, certainly now warrant more than time and attention then we can give them in a single line on a singular slide. Therefore, we remain committed to providing investors visibility and meaningful update to scheduled capital and off-take status as we continue to progress our major projects. So from time to time, we will give you a more depth look into our projects.

現在請翻到投影片#11。我知道我們的一些投資者參考我們的主要項目承諾幻燈片來追蹤我們的項目。然而，這些項目的規模和規模，都有多年的執行時間框架，現在當然需要更多的時間和注意力，然後我們可以在一張投影片上用一行文字給出它們。因此，隨著我們繼續推動我們的主要項目，我們仍然致力於為投資者提供可見性以及對計劃資本和承購狀況的有意義的更新。因此，我們會不時地讓您更深入地了解我們的專案。

Today, we have decided to give you an update on our blue hydrogen and blue ammonia clean energy complex in Louisiana which is one of the largest projects that we are executing.

今天，我們決定向您介紹位於路易斯安那州的藍氫和藍氨清潔能源綜合體的最新情況，這是我們正在執行的最大項目之一。

Please turn to Slide #12. We announced our intent to build this world scale facility in Louisiana in October of 2021. As we move forward with detailed planning to execute this project, a significant positive event happened in August of 2022. When the United States Congress passed the IRA legislation which created tax incentives for the production of blue and green hydrogen.

請翻到投影片 #12。我們宣布打算在2021 年10 月在路易斯安那州建造這一世界級設施。當我們推進執行該項目的詳細規劃時，2022 年8 月發生了一件重大積極事件。當美國國會通過IRA 立法時，創建了對生產藍色和綠色氫氣的稅收優惠。

In addition, by 2022, it was becoming more and more evident that the future demand for blue hydrogen and blue ammonia is improving significantly supported by positive developments in other regions of the world, particularly in Europe and Japan. Not only is there growing need to decarbonize the heavy transportation and industrial sector, such as [sea], but also other growing applications, including using low-carbon intensity blue ammonia to fuel ships, reduce emissions from power plants and more. These events, especially the passage of the IRA legislation, led us to consider that now rather than later is the best time to build the infrastructure for this project, to accommodate future expansion.

此外，到2022年，越來越明顯的是，在世界其他地區（特別是歐洲和日本）積極發展的支持下，未來對藍氫和藍氨的需求正在顯著改善。不僅重型運輸和工業部門（例如海洋）脫碳的需求日益增長，其他應用也不斷增長，包括使用低碳強度的藍氨為船舶提供燃料、減少發電廠的排放等。這些事件，特別是愛爾蘭共和軍立法的通過，使我們認為現在而不是以後是為該項目建立基礎設施以適應未來擴張的最佳時機。

It is important that we are -- that we pre-invest in the infrastructure needed for future expansion now so that when the demand increases rapidly, as we expect it to, we will be able to bring the next phase of this project on the stream as fast as possible. In addition to the increased cost to build the infrastructure, obviously, the project cost has gone up due to inflation that we are seeing in the past 3 years since we announced the project and anticipate in the future to build this facility.

重要的是，我們現在就對未來擴張所需的基礎設施進行預先投資，以便當需求像我們預期的那樣迅速增加時，我們將能夠啟動該專案的下一階段盡可能快。除了建設基礎設施的成本增加之外，顯然，自我們宣布該項目以來，由於通貨膨脹，我們在過去三年中看到了通貨膨脹，並且預計未來將建設該設施，因此項目成本也有所增加。

In addition to all of this, we have included in the $7 billion funds to cover the interest on capital that we will be using as we build this plant. This facility is a huge facility, we are very excited about its future. We remain totally committed to this project and its profitability. It is a unique one of a kind project that will put us significantly ahead of anybody else in the world in the production of this product.

除此之外，我們還納入了 70 億美元資金，用於支付我們建造該工廠時將使用的資本利息。這個設施是一個巨大的設施，我們對它的未來感到非常興奮。我們仍然完全致力於該項目及其盈利能力。這是一個獨一無二的項目，將使我們在該產品的生產方面明顯領先於世界上其他任何人。

We see significant demand for the product that this plant will produce. As a result, I am very pleased to announce today that our Board of Directors has given us final investment approval to proceed with the project at the new capital estimate of $7 billion. We expect this project will deliver double-digit returns to our investors when it is fully on stream.

我們看到對該工廠將生產的產品有巨大的需求。因此，我今天非常高興地宣布，我們的董事會已批准我們以 70 億美元的新資本估算繼續推進該項目。我們預計該項目全面投產後將為我們的投資者帶來兩位數的回報。

As you know, this project will produce hydrogen and ammonia at very low carbon intensity. As the first company to make this unique low-carbon hydrogen and ammonia products at a large scale, we expect to get a premium for the product, which will allow us to achieve double-digit returns on capital. Additionally, the scale of our activities will provide a cost advantage over other similar projects in development at this time. We are really excited about the future of low carbon hydrogen and ammonia. That is by -- this project in Louisiana is well underway, and we are laying the groundwork to meet the expected additional demand in the future.

如您所知，該項目將以非常低的碳強度生產氫氣和氨。作為第一家大規模生產這種獨特的低碳氫化合物和氨產品的公司，我們期望獲得該產品的溢價，這將使我們能夠實現兩位數的資本回報率。此外，與目前正在開發的其​​他類似項目相比，我們的活動規模將具有成本優勢。我們對低碳氫和氨的未來感到非常興奮。也就是說，路易斯安那州的這個計畫正在順利進行，我們正在為滿足未來預期的額外需求奠定基礎。

The additional infrastructure we are building now will continue to be a competitive advantage for Air Products in the future. Now it is my pleasure to turn the call over to Melissa Schaeffer, our Chief Financial Officer, to give you a summary of the fourth quarter 2023 results. Melissa?

我們現在正在建造的額外基礎設施將繼續成為空氣產品公司未來的競爭優勢。現在，我很高興將電話轉接給我們的財務長 Melissa Schaeffer，為您提供 2023 年第四季業績摘要。梅麗莎？

Thank you, Seifi. And my thanks to the people of Air Products, who have again delivered double-digit average earnings growth in a difficult environment, an impressive trend that we have achieved in 9 of the past 10 quarters.

謝謝你，賽菲。我還要感謝空氣產品公司的員工，他們在困難的環境中再次實現了兩位數的平均收益成長，這是我們在過去 10 個季度中有 9 個季度實現的令人印象深刻的趨勢。

Now please turn to Slide 13 for a review of our fourth quarter results. In comparison to last year, we have again achieved underlying sales growth despite ongoing economic weakness. Merchant price was 4% higher compared to last year, with positive pricing in most regions. This corresponds to a 2% price improvement for the whole company. Higher on-site volumes including strong demand for hydrogen and higher LNG sale of equipment activities were offset by one-time opportunities in the prior year, resulting in flat volumes for the company overall.

現在請翻到投影片 13，回顧我們第四季的業績。與去年相比，儘管經濟持續疲軟，但我們再次實現了潛在的銷售成長。商家價格較去年上漲4%，大部分地區定價積極。這相當於整個公司的價格提高了 2%。較高的現場銷售（包括對氫氣的強勁需求和較高的液化天然氣設備銷售活動）被上一年的一次性機會所抵消，導致公司整體銷售持平。

Declining natural gas costs in Europe and the Americas reduced energy cost pass-through to our on-site customers. This 14% decline in sales has no impact on profit but was a significant contributor to our higher margin. The overall impact of currency was minimal as the strengthening of the euro and British pound against the U.S. dollar was mostly offset by a weak Chinese RMB. EBITDA of $1.3 billion improved 10% as favorable price, variable cost and equity affiliate income more than offset higher other costs. EBITDA was up in 4 of our 5 reporting segments.

歐洲和美洲天然氣成本的下降減少了我們現場客戶的能源成本轉嫁。銷售額下降 14% 對利潤沒有影響，但卻是提高利潤率的重要因素。貨幣的整體影響很小，因為歐元和英鎊兌美元的走強大部分被人民幣疲軟所抵消。 EBITDA 達到 13 億美元，成長了 10%，因為優惠的價格、可變成本和股權附屬公司收入足以抵消其他成本的上升。我們的 5 個報告分部中有 4 個的 EBITDA 有所成長。

EBITDA margin jumped more than 700 basis points with lower energy cost pass-through contributed to about 2/3 of the improvement. ROCE progressed steadily to reach 12%, which is 90 basis points higher than last year. We expect to maintain the steady progression as we continue bringing new projects on stream and put the cash on our balance sheet to work. Adjusting for cash, our ROCE would have been relatively flat at 13.4%. Sequentially, results improved primarily due to increased LNG sales equipment activities as well as on-site.

EBITDA 利潤率躍升超過 700 個基點，能源成本轉嫁降低貢獻了約 2/3 的改善。 ROCE穩步前進，達到12%，比去年高90個基點。隨著新項目的不斷投產以及資產負債表上的現金發揮作用，我們預計將保持穩定的進展。調整現金後，我們的 ROCE 相對持平，為 13.4%。隨後，業績的改善主要是由於液化天然氣銷售設備活動以及現場活動的增加。

Now please turn to Slide 14 for a discussion of our earnings per share. Our fourth quarter adjusted earnings were $3.15 per share, up $0.30 or 11% compared to last year due to strong pricing and higher equity affiliate income, partially offset by unfavorable costs. Price, net of variable costs contributed $0.44 this quarter benefiting from both price actions and lower power costs.

現在請翻到投影片 14，討論我們的每股盈餘。由於強勁的定價和更高的股權附屬收入，我們在第四季度調整後的收益為每股 3.15 美元，比去年增長 0.30 美元，即 11%，部分被不利的成本所抵消。受益於價格行動和較低的電力成本，本季扣除變動成本的價格貢獻了 0.44 美元。

Cost has been unfavorable impact of $0.28, driven by higher inflation and higher maintenance as well as our ongoing efforts to support our growth strategy, including bringing new assets onstream. Equity affiliate income was $0.19 higher due to the contribution of the second phase of the Jazan project and positive results from other unconsolidated joint ventures across the region. The remaining items, including noncontrolling interest, interest expense and the tax rate together had a modest negative $0.03 impact.

成本受到 0.28 美元的不利影響，原因是通膨上升和維護費用增加，以及我們持續努力支持我們的成長策略，包括引入新資產。由於 Jazan 專案第二階段的貢獻以及該地區其他未合併合資企業的積極業績，股權附屬公司收入增加了 0.19 美元。其餘項目，包括非控制權益、利息支出和稅率，總共產生了 0.03 美元的輕微負面影響。

Now please turn to Slide 15. We remain committed to maintaining our current targeted AA2 rating. And with our strong cash flow and additional debt leverage, we estimate that we can put more than $30 billion to work over the next 10 years. Today, we have a backlog over $19 billion, with approximately $15 billion of projects focused on the energy transition. We believe that investing in these high-return projects is the best way to create long-term shareholder value.

現在請轉到投影片 15。我們仍然致力於維持目前的 AA2 目標評級。憑藉強勁的現金流和額外的債務槓桿，我們預計未來 10 年可投入超過 300 億美元。如今，我們的積壓金額已超過 190 億美元，其中約 150 億美元的專案專注於能源轉型。我們相信，投資這些高回報項目是創造長期股東價值的最佳方式。

Now to begin the review of our business segment results, I'll turn the call to Dr. Serhan.

現在，為了開始審查我們的業務部門業績，我將把電話轉給 Serhan 博士。

Thank you, Melissa. Given our first fourth quarter, we again saw broad-based improvements across our businesses. Profits were favorable in 4 out of our 5 segments compared to the previous year.

謝謝你，梅麗莎。鑑於我們的第一個第四季度，我們再次看到我們業務的廣泛改善。與前一年相比，我們 5 個部門中有 4 個部門的利潤良好。

Please turn to Slide 16 for a review of our Americas segment results. Compared to last year, merchant price improved 10%, which corresponded to a 4% improvement for the overall region. Volumes grew 3% due to a strong demand for hydrogen. EBITDA of just over $600 million improved 17% driven by strong price, volume and equity affiliate income, while partially offset by higher costs. EBITDA margin 44.5% jumped more than 1,100 basis points. About 2/3 of the margin improvement was driven by lower energy cost pass-through. Sequentially, EBITDA increased 6%, mainly on better hydrogen volume.

請參閱投影片 16 查看我們的美洲分部業績。與去年相比，商家價格上漲了 10%，相當於整個地區上漲了 4%。由於對氫氣的強勁需求，銷量成長了 3%。由於強勁的價格、銷售和股權附屬公司收入，EBITDA 略高於 6 億美元，成長了 17%，但部分被較高的成本所抵消。 EBITDA 利潤率躍升超過 1,100 個基點，達 44.5%。大約 2/3 的利潤率改善是由較低的能源成本轉嫁推動的。隨後，EBITDA 增加了 6%，主要得益於更好的氫氣量。

Now please turn to Slide 17 for a review of our Asia segment results. Compared to last year, Asia volumes were negatively impacted by a slower economic recovery in China, a weak electronics market and onetime opportunities that benefit last year results. Despite these volume headwinds, our teams maintain focus on price. EBITDA and margin were down primarily due to the unfavorable volumes. Sequentially, price and volume were flat. However EBITDA declined primarily due to unfavorable business mix.

現在請翻到投影片 17，回顧我們的亞洲分部表現。與去年相比，亞洲銷售受到中國經濟復甦放緩、電子市場疲軟以及有利於去年業績的一次性機會的負面影響。儘管存在這些銷售逆風，我們的團隊仍然關注價格。 EBITDA 和利潤率下降主要是因為銷售不佳。隨後，價格和數量持平。然而，EBITDA 下降主要是由於不利的業務組合。

Please turn to Slide 18 for a review of our Europe segment results. Compared to last year, our costs subsided while merchant pricing remained stable. Growing volumes in our on-site business were offset by weaker demand for merchant products, resulting in flat volumes for the segment overall. EBITDA was up 15%, driven by the lower power costs and stronger currencies against the U.S. dollar, which more than compensated for the other cost increases. EBITDA margin was 1,000 basis points higher, approximately 2/3 of which was due to the impact of lower energy costs pass-through.

請參閱投影片 18 查看我們的歐洲部門業績。與去年相比，我們的成本有所下降，而商家定價保持穩定。我們現場業務的銷售成長被商業產品需求疲軟所抵消，導致該領域整體銷售持平。由於電力成本下降和貨幣兌美元走強，EBITDA 成長了 15%，這足以彌補其他成本的成長。 EBITDA 利潤率提高了 1,000 個基點，其中約 2/3 是由於能源成本轉嫁下降的影響。

Sequentially, the region's EBITDA was relatively flat as higher volume was offset by unfavorable price and costs. Like we mentioned before, we brought the new project in Uzbekistan on stream last month, earlier than previously anticipated. We expect this project to gradually ramp up and significantly contribute to growth in this segment going forward.

因此，該地區的 EBITDA 相對持平，因為較高的產量被不利的價格和成本所抵消。正如我們之前提到的，我們上個月在烏茲別克斯坦投產了新項目，比之前的預期還要早。我們預計該項目將逐步推進，並為該細分市場的未來成長做出重大貢獻。

Now please turn to Slide 19. Before we move on to the next roboting segment, I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the recently announced largest blue hydrogen project in Europe. Blue hydrogen project is being developed in conjunction with Porthos, CO2 transport and storage project in the Port of Rotterdam, where we have an extensive hydrogen pipeline network. Porthos will transport the CO2 emission from participating industrial companies and sequester them and depleted gas field in the North Sea.

現在請翻到投影片 19。在我們進入下一個機器人部分之前，我想藉此機會重點介紹一下最近宣布的歐洲最大的藍色氫計畫。藍色氫計畫正在與鹿特丹港的 Porthos 二氧化碳運輸和儲存計畫共同開發，我們在那裡擁有廣泛的氫管道網路。 Porthos 將運送參與工業公司排放的二氧化碳，並將其封存在北海的枯竭氣田中。

Air Products will build, own and operate the carbon capture and CO2 treatment facility, which will allow us to capture the emissions from our existing hydrogen facility as well as the customer refinery. The resulting low carbon, hydrogen produced will be supplied to ExxonMobil under a long-term offtake agreement. European regulations are supportive of low-carbon projects. We have secured additional support from the Dutch government. We expect the project to be on stream in 2026.

空氣產品公司將建造、擁有和營運碳捕獲和二氧化碳處理設施，這將使我們能夠捕獲現有氫氣設施以及客戶煉油廠的排放物。由此產生的低碳氫化合物將根據長期承購協議供應給埃克森美孚。歐洲法規支持低碳計畫。我們已獲得荷蘭政府的額外支持。我們預計該項目將於 2026 年投產。

Now please turn to Slide 20 for a review of our Middle East and India segment. Compared to last year, sales were lower due to lower volume. The second phase of the Jazan project, which we closed in mid-January of this year added to equity affiliate income and it drove the region's overall results.

現在請翻到投影片 20，回顧我們的中東和印度部分。與去年相比，由於銷量下降，銷售額有所下降。我們在今年 1 月中旬結束的 Jazan 專案第二階段增加了股權附屬公司收入，並推動了該地區的整體業績。

Now please turn to Slide 21 for our corporate and other segment results. This segment includes our sale of equipment businesses as well as our centrally managed functions and corporate costs. The sales and profit for this segment improved this quarter, primarily due to higher LNG sale of equipment activities. We continue to have robust discussions with customer interested in our LNG technology and equipment. We were pleased to announce a significant new project involving sale of equipment in Malaysia last week, adding to our already robust project pipeline. Echoing Seifi and Melissa, the outstanding results this quarter again demonstrate the strength of our businesses. I also would like to thank our teams around the world for their hard work and commitment. I would like now to turn the call back to Seifi to provide his closing remarks.

現在請參閱投影片 21，以了解我們的公司和其他部門的表現。該部門包括我們的設備業務銷售以及我們的集中管理職能和公司成本。本季該部門的銷售額和利潤有所改善，主要是由於液化天然氣設備銷售活動的增加。我們繼續與對我們的液化天然氣技術和設備感興趣的客戶進行熱烈的討論。我們很高興上周宣布了一個涉及馬來西亞設備銷售的重要新項目，為我們本已強勁的項目儲備增添了新的內容。與 Seifi 和 Melissa 一樣，本季的出色業績再次證明了我們業務的實力。我還要感謝我們在世界各地的團隊的辛勤工作和承諾。現在我想把電話轉回 Seifi，讓他發表結束語。

Thank you very much, Dr. Serhan. I appreciate that. Now please turn to Slide #22. We present this slide during every earnings call because it is our core belief that the commitment and motivation of our people are the key drivers of our success. After all, technologies, processes and physical assets, which are often cited as competitive advantages are all created by people in the organization.

非常感謝您，Serhan 博士。我很感激。現在請翻到投影片 #22。我們在每次財報電話會議上都會展示這張投影片，因為我們的核心信念是，員工的承諾和動力是我們成功的關鍵驅動力。畢竟，通常被稱為競爭優勢的技術、流程和實體資產都是由組織中的人員創造的。

At Air Products, we have built an outstanding organization. Our people working together are creating innovative technologies, processes and facilities that are making us a first mover in supporting the transition to lower and zero carbon energy and decarbonizing the transportation and industrial sectors. We are doing this alongside our excellent core industrial gases business, which has also underpinned -- which is also underpinned by sustainability and delivering significant productivity and environmental benefits to our customers around the world.

在空氣產品公司，我們建立了一個優秀的組織。我們的員工共同努力創造創新技術、流程和設施，使我們成為支持向低碳和零碳能源轉型以及交通和工業部門脫碳的先驅。我們正在與我們出色的核心工業氣體業務一起實現這一目標，該業務也以永續發展為基礎，為我們世界各地的客戶帶來顯著的生產力和環境效益。

At Air Products, our higher purpose is to bring people together to collaborate and innovate solutions to significant energy and environmental challenges in our world. I can say that our entire team is focused on sustainable growth opportunities in generating a cleaner future for humanity. With that, we are now ready to answer any of your questions, and we welcome them. Operator, we are ready for questions, please.

在空氣產品公司，我們的更高目標是讓人們齊心協力，共同協作並創新解決方案，以應對世界上重大的能源和環境挑戰。我可以說，我們整個團隊都專注於永續成長機會，為人類創造一個更清潔的未來。至此，我們現在準備好回答您的任何問題，我們歡迎您提出問題。接線員，我們已準備好回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) We'll take your first caller from John McNulty from BMO Capital Markets.

（操作員說明）我們將接聽 BMO 資本市場的 John McNulty 的第一個來電。

So I guess I wanted to dig into the Louisiana project a little bit more and the incremental $2.5 billion of spend. I guess it sounds like there's a bunch of buckets including capitalized interest, taking over more utilities, kind of expanding the scope of the project. I guess, can you help us to put into buckets where the bulk of that $2.5 billion is going?

所以我想我想進一步深入了解路易斯安那州的項目以及新增的 25 億美元支出。我想聽起來好像有很多桶，包括資本化利息、接管更多公用事業、擴大專案範圍。我想，您能幫助我們將 25 億美元的大部分資金投入到具體的用途上嗎？

John, excellent question. Number one, obviously, as we said, we announced this project 2.5 years ago. Everybody knows that there has been inflation, there is no escaping that, and there will be inflation as we continue to do this project. The labor markets are tight. Some of the supply equipment and so on are tight. Therefore, there is significant inflation that we have had to deal with, and we have included that in the new capital project.

約翰，很好的問題。第一，顯然，正如我們所說，我們在 2.5 年前宣布了這個項目。每個人都知道通貨膨脹已經存在，這是不可避免的，隨著我們繼續進行這個項目，將會出現通貨膨脹。勞動市場緊張。部分供應設備等緊張。因此，我們必須應對嚴重的通貨膨脹，我們已將其納入新的資本項目中。

Order of magnitude, I mean, let's say that it's about $1 billion or more is inflation. The rest of it is the fact that we have, as I said during the call, we have put in interest on capital. Obviously, as capital goes up, we do charge ourselves interest during our own capital because otherwise, we would apply it somewhere. So that is a significant part of that $2.5 billion.

我的意思是，通貨膨脹的數量級約為 10 億美元或更多。其餘的事實是，正如我在電話會議中所說，我們已經對資本投入了利息。顯然，隨著資本的增加，我們確實會在自有資本中收取利息，否則我們會在其他地方使用它。因此，這是這 25 億美元中的一個重要部分。

And then in addition to that, we have decided -- because we see demand for this product being significant, that right now, some of the fundamental infrastructure, we want to build it bigger, so that when we want to expand, we don't have to build smaller units again, right? Things like water supply, things like land preparation, things like we bought additional 1,000 acres for expansion.

除此之外，我們還決定 - 因為我們看到對該產品的需求很大，所以現在，我們希望將一些基本基礎設施建設得更大，這樣當我們想要擴展時，我們就不會這樣做不必再建造更小的單位，對嗎？例如供水，例如土地整備，例如我們額外購買了 1,000 英畝土地進行擴建。

So that -- it's a combination of all of that, that adds up to the $2.5 billion, you would say, increase. We also have put in contingency and we have reviewed this thing in detail with our Board, and I'm very happy that they have supported us. But I keep going back to the fundamental issue that we are reiterating, but we are pleased, very carefully that we expect double-digit return now on $7 billion, better than double-digit return on $4.5 billion.

因此，所有這些加在一起，您可能會說增加了 25 億美元。我們也制定了應急措施，並與董事會詳細審查了此事，我很高興他們支持我們。但我不斷回到我們重申的基本問題，但我們很高興，非常謹慎地預計，現在 70 億美元的兩位數回報率，比 45 億美元的兩位數回報率要好。

So if you want to look at it in a glass half full, we are actually going to make more money than before. John, I cannot overstress the fact that we see the demand for the product, materializing, it is serious. And as we go forward, we will be able to demonstrate that to you. But this is a very exciting project. It's a unique project. We are executing it. We are in the field and our people are very excited about it, and we are all very excited and very positive about this project.

因此，如果你想用半滿的杯子來看待它，我們實際上會比以前賺更多的錢。約翰，我不能過度強調這樣一個事實：我們看到了對產品的需求，具體化了，這是嚴肅的。隨著我們的前進，我們將能夠向您展示這一點。但這是一個非常令人興奮的項目。這是一個獨特的項目。我們正在執行它。我們在現場，我們的員工對此感到非常興奮，我們都對這個專案感到非常興奮和積極。

Got it. And then I guess my second question would just be on the Netherlands project. It sounds like it's an interesting kind of emerging opportunity. Can you help us to think about how much capital may get put to work on that project and how you're thinking about the returns for it as well?

知道了。然後我想我的第二個問題就是關於荷蘭計畫。聽起來這是一個有趣的新興機會。您能否幫助我們考慮一下該專案可以投入多少資金以及您如何考慮該專案的回報？

Yes. I'm going to add Dr. Serhan will give you more color, but obviously, the return for that will be double digits as like anything else we do. But Dr. Serhan is very close to that project, and I'd like him to comment on that. Samir?

是的。我要補充的是，Serhan 博士會給你更多的色彩，但顯然，就像我們所做的其他事情一樣，回報將是兩位數。但 Serhan 博士非常接近這個項目，我希望他對此發表評論。薩米爾？

Thanks, Seifi. We're really not going to talk about the specific about the capital for the project. But; again, it's a very exciting opportunity. It's our third project in our first mover advantage when it comes to blue hydrogen. We started with the net 0 blue hydrogen project in Edmonton, Canada, and we went to the Louisiana double project. And now this is really the third and it's really the biggest also in Europe.

謝謝，賽菲。我們真的不會談論該專案資本的具體情況。但;這又是一個非常令人興奮的機會。這是我們在藍氫方面發揮先發優勢的第三個項目。我們從加拿大埃德蒙頓的net 0藍色氫計畫開始，然後我們去了路易斯安那雙計畫。現在這確實是第三個，也是歐洲最大的。

Very excited about it with long-term offtake agreement with a subsidiary of ExxonMobil Esso. We capture -- we will capture CO2 from our existing hydrogen facility in the Port of Rotterdam and we will also capture CO2 from another Exxon hydrogen plant where we basically provided to Porthos to sequester under the North Sea. Again, emphasizing the double-digit return for the project.

與埃克森美孚埃索的子公司達成長期承購協議，對此我們感到非常興奮。我們將從鹿特丹港現有的氫氣設施中捕獲二氧化碳，我們還將從埃克森美孚的另一家氫氣工廠捕獲二氧化碳，我們基本上將其提供給波爾托斯以封存在北海下。再次強調該項目的兩位數回報。

We'll hear next from John Roberts from Mizuho.

接下來我們將聽到來自瑞穗銀行的約翰羅伯茲的發言。

Nice quarter. Staying on the blue hydrogen project in Europe, anything unique about the gas sourcing for that project? Given Europe's disadvantaged gas situation? And is that replacing existing hydrogen capacity? Or is your customer expanding their demand?

不錯的季度。繼續關注歐洲的藍色氫項目，該項目的天然氣採購有什麼獨特之處嗎？鑑於歐洲天然氣情勢不利？這會取代現有的氫氣產能嗎？或者您的客戶正在擴大他們的需求？

I can answer that, and then if Dr. Serhan wants to add to that. But fundamentally, it is an existing plant that we have -- existing plants that Exxon has. We have their technology and the know-how, we are going to put carbon capture on these existing units and capture the carbon and put it in this pipeline to go and be sequester. So we are actually reducing CO2 emission into the air.

我可以回答這個問題，如果 Serhan 博士想補充的話。但從根本上來說，它是我們現有的工廠——埃克森美孚擁有的現有工廠。我們擁有他們的技術和專業知識，我們將在這些現有裝置上進行碳捕獲，捕獲碳並將其放入這條管道中進行封存。因此，我們實際上正在減少向空氣中排放的二氧化碳。

This is not a new plant that people say, where you are building a new plant you are capturing the CO2, but you're not really reducing existing emission. This is really reducing existing emissions. And that is where our technology is, and that's where our know-how is. And therefore, it's a very positive project, it's received very positively. And it is a significant project. You don't want to disclose the exact amount because of the NDAs that we have. But it is not a $10 million project, but it's not a $2 billion project either, but it's a substantial amount of capital. Dr. Serhan, do you want to add anything to it?

這不是人們所說的新工廠，你在建造新工廠時正在捕捉二氧化碳，但並沒有真正減少現有的排放量。這確實減少了現有的排放。這就是我們的技術所在，這就是我們的專業知識所在。因此，這是一個非常積極的項目，受到了非常積極的歡迎。這是一個重大項目。由於我們有保密協議，您不想透露確切的金額。但這不是一個 1000 萬美元的項目，也不是一個 20 億美元的項目，但它的資本數量很大。 Serhan 博士，您想增加什麼嗎？

Again, it's really emphasizing no additional hydrogen. It's just really converting gray hydrogen to blue hydrogen. And again, with full support of the Dutch government for low carbon and hydrogen.

再次強調，它確實強調沒有額外的氫氣。它只是將灰色氫轉化為藍色氫。再一次，在荷蘭政府對低碳和氫能的全力支持下。

And on the volume weakness in China, could you peel apart syngas versus electronics versus merchant (inaudible)?

關於中國的銷售疲軟，您能否將合成氣與電子產品與商業產品（聽不清楚）區分開來？

John, that is a very, very good question. I've been trying to get a handle on that myself, which is not that easy, but where the weakness is. But there is obviously weakness in the electronics, but there is a weakness in the fundamental Chinese economy and we are beginning to see that.

約翰，這是一個非常非常好的問題。我一直在嘗試自己解決這個問題，這並不容易，但弱點在哪裡。但電子產品顯然有弱點，但中國經濟的基本面也存在弱點，我們開始看到這一點。

So I don't want to go through all of the details of the breakdowns, but we are seeing a general weakness. And hopefully, that trend will change, but that -- despite that, we are giving you the guidance that we are giving you because we are saying that if the Chinese economy doesn't develop as well as it should, then what we will take additional productivity measures to make sure we deliver the guidance that we have given you.

因此，我不想詳細介紹故障的所有細節，但我們看到了普遍的弱點。希望這種趨勢會改變，但儘管如此，我們正在向你們提供我們正在向你們提供的指導，因為我們說，如果中國經濟沒有達到應有的發展，那麼我們將採取什麼措施額外的生產力措施，以確保我們提供給您的指導。

(Operator Instructions) We'll hear next from Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）接下來我們將聽取摩根士丹利的文森安德魯斯的演講。

Seifi, I wanted to follow up on Louisiana in two ways. One, it sounds like some of the incremental CapEx will be spent now, but the benefits won't necessarily accrue to the company at the time the first phase starts up. So I just want to understand, you'll have $7 billion of total CapEx spent when the project starts up. And traditionally, we think of your return coming to the company in that first year. Will you not get the full -- would you not get the return on the full $7 billion of CapEx when you start up? Or you have to wait until Phase II to get some of the return on some of the infrastructure and real estate spend that you're doing incrementally?

Seifi，我想透過兩種方式跟進路易斯安那州的情況。第一，聽起來現在將花費一些增量資本支出，但在第一階段啟動時，公司不一定會獲得收益。所以我只是想了解，當專案啟動時，您將花費 70 億美元的總資本支出。傳統上，我們認為您在第一年就回到公司。當您啟動時，您是否不會獲得 70 億美元資本支出的全部回報？或者您必須等到第二階段才能獲得您正在增量進行的一些基礎設施和房地產支出的部分回報？

Vincent, excellent question. We are not going to leave any money on the table. We are going to price the product in such a way that we get double-digit return on the project on the $7 billion right from the start.

文森特，很好的問題。我們不會在談判桌上留下任何錢。我們對產品的定價方式是，從一開始我們就能從 70 億美元的專案中獲得兩位數的回報。

And then secondly if I -- go ahead.

其次，如果我──繼續。

Yes. no, no, after you.

是的。不，不，在你之後。

Okay. And then secondly, I wanted to ask about your Canadian project. I believe your -- one of your offtake partners is also constructing a facility up there in part to use your product. And I believe that at an investor event earlier in September, where that project might be delayed. If that project is delayed, how does that impact Air Products economics and their ability to market their own product?

好的。其次，我想問一下你的加拿大計畫。我相信你的——你的一個承購合作夥伴也在那裡建造一座設施，部分是為了使用你的產品。我相信在九月初的投資者活動中，該項目可能會被推遲。如果該專案被推遲，這會對空氣產品公司的經濟效益及其行銷自己產品的能力產生怎樣的影響？

Well, I would like to answer that is that first of all, we are committed to meeting the requirements of our customer. So whenever our customers comes on stream, we will have our plans ready for them. They are a very valued customer. You know who they are, Exxon, and they are one of our largest customers, and we have a lot of respect for them. And we worked with them very closely.

嗯，我想回答的是，首先，我們致力於滿足客戶的要求。因此，每當我們的客戶投產時，我們都會為他們準備好規劃。他們是非常有價值的客戶。你知道他們是誰，埃克森美孚，他們是我們最大的客戶之一，我們非常尊重他們。我們與他們密切合作。

In terms of if they are delayed, then we are ready -- not 100% of the product is going to them. We have other customers that we believe will be taking the product on time. We have a liquid hydrogen plant that we are going to feed. Therefore, we would expect that the effect on Air Products would not be that material.

如果他們被延遲，那麼我們就準備好了——並不是 100% 的產品都會流向他們。我們相信還有其他客戶會準時購買該產品。我們有一個液態氫工廠，我們將為其提供原料。因此，我們預計空氣產品公司受到的影響不會那麼大。

We'll hear next from David Begleiter from Deutsche Bank.

接下來我們將聽取德意志銀行 David Begleiter 的演講。

This is David Huang here for Dave. I guess, on the major project slide, are there any other material changes on other projects in terms of project cost and the time line that you haven't updated? And also, I guess, on project costs, if I think about the cost inflation on Louisiana project, that's about 20%. Why shouldn't that be the case for other projects that you have in your pipeline?

我是戴維‧黃 (David Huang)。我想，在主要專案投影片上，其他專案在專案成本和時間表方面是否還有其他重大變更沒有更新？而且，我想，就專案成本而言，如果我考慮路易斯安那州計畫的成本通膨，大約是 20%。為什麼您的其他項目不應該出現這種情況？

Well, first of all, with respect to other projects, there is no material change in the profitability of those projects that we want to bring to your attention now. And as I said in my call, with some of these bigger projects as we go forward in our earnings calls, we give you more detail about the different projects.

那麼首先，對於其他項目來說，我們現在想提請您注意的那些項目的盈利能力並沒有發生重大變化。正如我在電話會議中所說，隨著我們在財報電話會議中推進其中一些更大的項目，我們將為您提供有關不同項目的更多詳細資訊。

The second thing is that if you take a look at the inflation thing, we -- one of the biggest projects we are executing was Jazan. That is already done. The next project, a big project was NEOM. We have already given you the capital for that, and we don't expect any significant inflation on that. That is in our backlog. [With thereof], we gave you the numbers right now. The projects that we are doing -- the other projects that we are doing are in such a way that the return is connected to the capital. So even if the capital goes up, the return doesn't go down. So there is nothing that material to report at that stage.

第二件事是，如果你看通貨膨脹問題，我們正在執行的最大項目之一是 Jazan。那已經完成了。下一個項目，一個大項目是NEOM。我們已經為您提供了資金，我們預計不會有任何嚴重的通貨膨脹。這是我們的積壓工作。 [由此]，我們現在就給了你數字。我們正在做的專案——我們正在做的其他專案都是以這樣的方式將回報與資本連結起來的。因此，即使資本增加，回報也不會下降。因此，現階段沒有什麼重要的內容需要報告。

Okay. Yes. And then in F Q1, European pricing was down 1%. Is there any specific competitive dynamic that resulted in that 1% decline because I don't think you have a decline in pricing for a long time. And I think your peer is still seeing some price increase in Europe in F Q4. Can you just talk about what's causing that and then your expectation on pricing in Europe and then just in general for next year?

好的。是的。然後在第一季度，歐洲定價下降了 1%。是否有任何特定的競爭動態導致了 1% 的下降，因為我認為價格不會長期下降。我認為您的同行在第四季度仍然看到歐洲的價格上漲。您能否談談造成這種情況的原因以及您對歐洲定價以及明年整體定價的預期？

Well, I would obviously love to answer your question in detail. But you know that we do have a very strong policy and we adhere to that. All of us adhere to that. We do not talk about forward-looking on price. That is not appropriate in our industry, and we can talk to you about what has happened in the past, but we do not have any opinion or any suggestions about what is going to happen in the future. And so -- my apologies, I will not be able to answer that question following our policy and my Chief Legal Officer is nodding, he said that I'm doing the right thing.

嗯，我顯然很想詳細回答你的問題。但你知道我們確實有一個非常強大的政策並且我們堅持這項政策。我們所有人都遵守這一點。我們不談論價格的前瞻性。這在我們這個行業是不合適的，我們可以和你談論過去發生的事情，但我們對未來將會發生的事情沒有任何意見或建議。因此，我很抱歉，根據我們的政策，我將無法回答這個問題，我的首席法務官正在點頭，他說我正在做正確的事情。

We'll move next to Mike Leithead from Barclays.

我們將接替來自巴克萊銀行的 Mike Leithead。

Great. First, I want to circle back on Louisiana. You just answered an earlier question, I think, talking about pricing the product appropriately to get your double-digit return upon startup, which is great. But when should investors expect the signed offtake agreement to help us get a bit more comfortable with the revenue stream from the projects?

偉大的。首先，我想回到路易斯安那州。我認為您剛剛回答了之前的一個問題，談論了適當的產品定價，以便在啟動時獲得兩位數的回報，這很棒。但是投資者什麼時候應該期望簽署的承購協議能幫助我們對專案的收入流感到更放心呢？

Well, on that point, I have been very kind of -- very clear about what is our philosophy. We could have signed agreements -- long-term agreements for selling that product 2 years ago. But we always said that we do not want to do that because as we go forward, it is going to become very clear to prospective customers that there are not that many plants or sources of low carbon -- the level of low carbon intensity, hydrogen and blue ammonia that we are going to produce.

嗯，在這一點上，我非常清楚我們的理念是什麼。我們本來可以在兩年前簽署協議——銷售該產品的長期協議。但我們總是說我們不想這樣做，因為隨著我們的前進，潛在客戶會變得非常清楚，沒有那麼多工廠或低碳來源——低碳強度水平、氫氣以及我們將要生產的藍色氨。

And therefore, the value of our products will go higher. We are not in a hurry to sign long-term agreements. The demand is going to be there. But right now, if you are negotiating with any of these prospective customers, to be very frank, they give you a list of 20 projects that, oh, wait a minute, I can buy from this guy in the Middle East and this guy in Louisiana and this project and this project.

因此，我們產品的價值將會更高。我們並不急於簽署長期協議。需求將會存在。但現在，如果你正在與這些潛在客戶中的任何一個進行談判，坦白說，他們會給你一份20 個項目的清單，哦，等一下，我可以從中東的這個人和美國的這個人在那裡購買。路易斯安那州和這個項目和這個項目。

All of those projects are paper projects. Nobody is doing anything. We are the only people who are actually building a plant. So we have another 2, 3 years before these plants come on stream. We should not be in a hurry to go and sell this stuff cheap just because that makes everybody feel happy. We -- our business, our goal, our responsibility is to make as much money as we can for the shareholders.

所有這些項目都是紙質項目。沒有人在做任何事。我們是唯一真正建造工廠的人。因此，我們還有兩三年才能讓這些工廠投產。我們不應該因為讓每個人都高興而急於低價出售這些東西。我們－我們的業務、我們的目標、我們的責任是為股東賺盡可能多的錢。

We think the value of these products will become higher as we get closer to where the demand is there, and there is not that many people who are supplying it. So do not expect for us to come and make a big announcement about selling this product in the near future because we are just not going to do that. We believe that the demand is there. Our customers know that the demand is there. It's just a little bit of a game about at what point people are going to come to the table, and we just don't think that right now is the time to do that.

我們認為，隨著我們越來越接近需求的地方，這些產品的價值會變得更高，而且供應這些產品的人並不多。因此，不要指望我們會在不久的將來發布有關銷售該產品的重大公告，因為我們不會這樣做。我們相信需求是存在的。我們的客戶知道需求是存在的。這只是一個關於人們什麼時候會來到談判桌的遊戲，我們只是認為現在不是這樣做的時候。

But obviously, at some point in time, we do want to sell the product, there's no question about that. But it's just the fact that we are trying to get the maximum value for the very unique product that we are going to be making. Nobody else in the world is producing this kind of product. And by the time this plant comes on stream, there is nobody else who is going to be producing this product at this scale because nobody has made the commitment and it takes a long time to develop these projects and build these projects.

但顯然，在某個時間點，我們確實想出售產品，這是毫無疑問的。但事實是，我們正在努力為我們將要製造的非常獨特的產品獲得最大價值。世界上沒有其他人生產這種產品。當這個工廠投產時，沒有其他人會以這種規模生產這種產品，因為沒有人做出承諾，而且開發這些項目和建造這些項目需要很長時間。

And then second, just a quick follow-up on cash flow maybe for Melissa. I think operating cash flow the past 2 years is about $3.2 billion, whereas CapEx is running about $5 billion, and the dividend is about $1.5 billion, (inaudible). So leverage is obviously moving a bit higher short term. When in your multiyear outlook, would you expect that to peak out? Or when should we start to see operating cash flow helped by the project start to move meaningfully higher in your view?

其次，對梅麗莎的現金流進行快速跟進。我認為過去 2 年的營運現金流約為 32 億美元，而資本支出約為 50 億美元，股息約為 15 億美元（聽不清楚）。因此短期內槓桿率顯然會走高。在您的多年展望中，您預計這種情況會達到頂峰嗎？或者您認為我們什麼時候應該開始看到該專案幫助下的營運現金流開始顯著上升？

I'll make a general comment, and then I'll turn it over to Melissa to give you more details if necessary. But fundamentally, we have always been telling you that we are committed to maintaining our A rating. That means that we will not lever the company more than about 3.5x. If we ever get to that stage, we'll stop doing projects.

我將發表一般性評論，然後將其轉交給梅麗莎，以便在必要時向您提供更多詳細資訊。但從根本上來說，我們一直在告訴您，我們致力於維持 A 級評級。這意味著我們對該公司的槓桿率不會超過 3.5 倍左右。如果我們到達那個階段，我們將停止做專案。

We are going to be responsible. We have significant opportunity. And as Melissa has shown you on the other slides, we still have a lot of headroom to lever the company before we run out of cash. But if we ever get to the stage, I just want to make the point, if we get to the stage that we are getting to the limit of 3.5 then we would slow down on the projects. We are not going to be irresponsible and try to lever the company because we are very committed to our A rating. That is the general comment. Specifically, Melissa, do you want to add to that?

我們將負責。我們有重要的機會。正如梅麗莎在其他幻燈片上向您展示的那樣，在現金耗盡之前，我們仍然有很大的空間來槓桿公司。但如果我們到達了 3.5 的極限階段，我只想指出這一點，如果我們到達了 3.5 的極限，那麼我們就會放慢專案進度。我們不會不負責任地試圖撬動公司，因為我們非常致力於我們的 A 評級。這是一般性評論。具體來說，梅麗莎，你想補充嗎？

Sure. Thanks, Seifi. So as you mentioned, we do continue to have very strong cash flow to support our ongoing business. We do continue to increase dividends, which is our commitment and we are executing against our global project backlog. With that situation, because of the cash outlay, we do expect to go to the debt market this year -- this fiscal year.

當然。謝謝，賽菲。正如您所提到的，我們確實繼續擁有非常強勁的現金流來支持我們正在進行的業務。我們確實繼續增加股息，這是我們的承諾，我們正在根據我們的全球項目積壓來執行。在這種情況下，由於現金支出，我們確實預計今年（本財年）將進入債務市場。

With that being said, as we bring these assets on stream, we will, of course, naturally be delevered. So that will be a decrease in our leverage and obviously, we'll continue to maintain that AA2 rating as Seifi mentioned. So again, likely will go out this year with the cash needs, but we do feel very comfortable that we will stay within that 2x leverage so that we can maintain our AA2 rating.

話雖如此，當我們將這些資產投入運作時，我們自然會去槓桿化。因此，我們的槓桿率將會下降，顯然，我們將繼續維持 Seifi 提到的 AA2 評級。因此，今年可能會因為現金需求而退出，但我們確實感到非常放心，我們將保持在 2 倍槓桿範圍內，以便我們能夠維持 AA2 評級。

Jeff Zekauskas from JPMorgan.

摩根大通的傑夫·澤考斯卡斯。

The working capital was a use of $424 million this year and your undistributed earnings of equity method investments was negative $260 million. So if you add that up, that $685 million, that was pulled away from cash from operations. And so your cash flow was flat year-over-year. For 2024, what do you expect then? $3.5 billion, $4 billion, more than $4 billion is working capital and outflow or an inflow? Can you explain your cash flow dynamics for next year?

今年營運資金使用額為 4.24 億美元，權益法投資的未分配盈餘為負 2.6 億美元。因此，如果您將其加起來，則 6.85 億美元是從營運現金中提取的。所以你的現金流量與去年同期持平。那麼對於2024年，你有什麼期望呢？ 35億美元、40億美元、超過40億美元是營運資金流出還是流入？您能解釋一下明年的現金流動態嗎？

Jeff, as usual you are asking a very good and a very detailed question. And I'm going to refer that details to Melissa to give you some color on that. Melissa?

傑夫，像往常一樣，你問了一個非常好的、非常詳細的問題。我將把這些細節轉給梅麗莎，讓你對此有所了解。梅麗莎？

Yes, absolutely. Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate your questions, and you always definitely have very interesting and detailed questions. So as we mentioned, we do still have a very strong cash inflow. This year, we had a few significant large cash outflows, including the closing of our Phase II for Jazan that happened in January.

是的，一點沒錯。謝謝，傑夫。我很欣賞你的問題，而且你總是提出非常有趣和詳細的問題。正如我們所提到的，我們仍然擁有非常強勁的現金流入。今年，我們出現了幾次重大現金流出，包括一月完成的 Jazan 第二期工程。

However, with that being said, working capital is still being largely funded by our ongoing influent trade activities. This year, as we mentioned, we do expect to have CapEx at around $5 billion to $5.5 billion, which is not far off where we were this year, including the closing of the Jazan joint venture. So we are very comfortable given our current cash flow that we will be able to meet ongoing working capital needs as well as execute against our growth strategy.

然而，話雖如此，營運資金仍然主要由我們正在進行的有影響力的貿易活動提供資金。正如我們所提到的，我們預計今年的資本支出約為 50 億至 55 億美元，這與今年的水平相去不遠，其中包括關閉 Jazan 合資企業。因此，考慮到我們目前的現金流，我們非常放心，我們將能夠滿足持續的營運資金需求並執行我們的成長策略。

Okay. All right. For my follow-up, if your investment in Louisiana is going to be $7 billion, is that $7 billion to be spent by 2026? And so should we assume that your CapEx in 2025 and '26 should be higher than the $5 billion to $5.5 billion range you've got for '24?

好的。好的。我的後續問題是，如果你們在路易斯安那州的投資將達到 70 億美元，那麼這 70 億美元會在 2026 年之前花完嗎？那麼我們是否應該假設您在 2025 年和 26 年的資本支出應該高於 24 年 50 億至 55 億美元的範圍？

Yes, I'll take that question. We have announced officially today that we expect the project cost to be $7 billion. We have not announced that we expect that Air Products will spend $7 billion on building the project. We can, as we go forward and we sign long-term agreements to sell the product, we can and we will seriously consider like we did with NEOM to lever the project and finance the project.

是的，我會回答這個問題。我們今天正式宣布，預計該項目成本為 70 億美元。我們尚未宣布預計空氣產品公司將斥資 70 億美元建造該項目。隨著我們前進並簽署長期協議來銷售產品，我們可以而且我們會認真考慮，就像我們對 NEOM 所做的那樣，利用專案槓桿並為專案融資。

So you might end up that out of the $7 billion our actual cash outlay for the project might be $2 billion, $2.5 billion, $3 billion, not $7 billion. So there is a possibility of doing that. Please don't forget that. So we are -- we have the capacity to spend our own cash, but we would rather project finance these products so that we have more cash for future projects. And this -- we have demonstrated, we did this with Jazan, where it was a $12 billion project and the project financed that. We have done that with NEOM.

因此，你最終可能會發現，在 70 億美元中，我們用於該專案的實際現金支出可能是 20 億美元、25 億美元、30 億美元，而不是 70 億美元。所以有可能這樣做。請不要忘記這一點。所以我們——我們有能力花費自己的現金，但我們寧願為這些產品進行專案融資，以便我們有更多的現金用於未來的專案。我們已經證明，我們與 Jazan 一起做到了這一點，這是一個價值 120 億美元的項目，該項目為其提供了資金。我們已經用 NEOM 做到了這一點。

And there is a good possibility, I'm not saying 100%, but there is a good possibility that we will do that with this project, which is a very interesting project and very amenable to having project finance. Okay, Jeff?

我並不是說 100%，但我們很有可能在這個項目中做到這一點，這是一個非常有趣的項目，非常適合項目融資。好吧，傑夫？

Moving next to Marc Bianchi from TD Cowen.

從 TD Cowen 轉到 Marc Bianchi 旁邊。

I'd first like to ask for an update on the NEOM project. Can you talk about progress there, remind us of the time line and any updates on potential offtake agreements?

我首先想詢問 NEOM 專案的最新情況。您能否談談那裡的進展，提醒我們時間表以及潛在承購協議的任何更新？

Our NEOM project is moving forward very nicely. We are certainly almost done with the engineering. We are actually constructing the plant. We have, as you saw an announcement today by NEOM green hydrogen company that they are taking delivery of the wind turbines. So that project is expected, right now, the time line that we have announced is at the end of 2026, beginning of 2027, and we fully expect to meet that deadline.

我們的 NEOM 專案進展順利。當然，我們的工程工作已經差不多完成了。我們實際上正在建造工廠。正如您今天看到的，NEOM 綠色氫能公司宣布他們正在接收風力渦輪機。因此，目前該專案預計會啟動，我們宣布的時間表是 2026 年底、2027 年初，我們完全希望能在這個期限內完成。

So that -- in terms of discussions about the uptake, again, there are comments that I made about Louisiana apply to that. But also at the same time, there has been public announcements by other people about their demand for green hydrogen in Europe? You saw that one of the largest oil companies in the world announced that they will need 500,000 tons of green hydrogen by 2030, just to put it in perspective, 500,000 tons is equivalent of 3x the capacity of NEOM.

因此，就有關吸收的討論而言，我對路易斯安那州所做的評論再次適用於此。但同時，其他人也公開宣布了他們對歐洲綠氫的需求？你看到世界上最大的石油公司之一宣布，到2030年他們將需要50萬噸綠色氫，從長遠來看，50萬噸相當於NEOM產能的3倍。

So there is going to be plenty of demand for that project but we will wait, as I said, in terms of our strategy to price that appropriately so that we can get appropriate return on that project.

因此，對該專案將有大量需求，但正如我所說，我們將等待，根據我們的策略，對其進行適當定價，以便我們能夠從該專案中獲得適當的回報。

That's a great overview. The other question I had was on the -- targeting greater than 10% internal rate of return. Does that suggest that there's -- this is an upgrade from your prior messaging of sort of an EBIT contribution of 10% of the project cost? And does this now include the benefit of IRA, I believe, before the comment was that you were not including the benefit of IRA?

這是一個很棒的概述。我的另一個問題是——目標內部報酬率高於 10%。這是否表明——這是您之前發布的息稅前利潤佔項目成本 10% 的消息的升級？我相信，在評論說您沒有包括 IRA 的福利之前，現在這是否包括 IRA 的福利？

Well, it's a combination of all of that. We have always said that 10% IRA is the minimum. That really translates to what you said, $0.10 of operating profit on a dollar of investment. Those two go together. We do expect, and we have demonstrated that.

嗯，這是所有這些的結合。我們一直說10%的IRA是最低的。這實際上就是您所說的，一美元的投資帶來 0.10 美元的營業利潤。這兩個人走在一起。我們確實期望這一點，並且我們已經證明了這一點。

Now that you have all of the detailed numbers, please take a look at the return we are getting on Jazan. And Jazan, it's a $12 billion project. And if you look carefully, you'll find out that in terms of IRR, the return on that is more than 15%. So we obviously, as I said, we price our products not based on just the return, the price is based on what the market bears. And -- but if it goes below 10%, we usually don't do the projects unless it is phenomenally strategic and we don't have that -- too many of those. So overall, the 10% IRR is our minimum. And we expect most of our projects to produce more than that.

現在您已經掌握了所有詳細數字，請查看我們在 Jazan 上獲得的回報。 Jazan 是一個價值 120 億美元的項目。如果你仔細觀察，你會發現，從IRR來看，其報酬率超過15%。因此，正如我所說，顯然我們的產品定價不僅僅基於回報，而是基於市場承受的價格。而且 - 但如果低於 10%，我們通常不會做這些項目，除非它具有非凡的戰略意義，而我們沒有這樣的項目 - 太多了。所以總的來說，10%的IRR是我們的最低限度。我們預計我們的大多數項目的產出都會超過這個數字。

And the inclusion of benefit from IRA?

以及 IRA 的福利包括在內嗎？

Well, the IRA, it depends on which project and how much it affects that and all of that. But IRA obviously, we've had. But as you know, IRA was designed in such a way that we would be able to get a good return, but also price the product to encourage the customers to use that because it was an incentive for that. So it's going to help both sides.

嗯，愛爾蘭共和軍，這取決於哪個項目以及它對這個項目的影響有多大以及所有這些。但顯然，愛爾蘭共和軍（IRA）我們已經擁有了。但如您所知，IRA 的設計方式使我們能夠獲得良好的回報，同時也對產品進行定價以鼓勵客戶使用它，因為這是一種激勵。所以對雙方都有幫助。

We'll move next to Mike Sison from Wells Fargo.

我們將接替來自富國銀行的邁克·西森 (Mike Sison)。

Nice quarter and outlook. I apologize. I just want to ask Louisiana again. Maybe I just don't understand. So I take the $7 billion and then your normal 10% of capital should be applied on the $7 billion? Or is that less than $7 billion?

不錯的季度和前景。我道歉。我只是想再問一下路易斯安那州。也許我只是不明白。所以我拿了70億美元，然後你正常的10%資本應該用在這70億美元？或者說這還不到 70 億美元？

Well, the rule of time thumb that we said you should expect once that plant is fully operational you should expect if we have financed that ourselves and the $7 billion is all -- our money, you should expand the $700 million uplift on the operating income of our products. But as I said, we might decide to project finance it, which, in that case, it will be in accordance with how much cash we put in there. But if it was all of our money you should expect $700 million.

好吧，我們說過，一旦該工廠全面投入運營，您應該預期，如果我們自己融資，並且 70 億美元就是我們的資金，那麼您應該預期，您應該預期擴大營業收入的 7 億美元增量我們的產品。但正如我所說，我們可能會決定對其進行專案融資，在這種情況下，這將取決於我們投入的現金數量。但如果這是我們所有的錢，你應該期望 7 億美元。

Okay. And then given that the cost has gone up from $4.5 billion to $7 billion, is the pricing assumption on what you're going to sell has that changed? And does that 10% return change on a certain price that you need to get for the product?

好的。鑑於成本已從 45 億美元上升到 70 億美元，您要出售的產品的定價假設是否發生了變化？ 10% 的報酬率是否會隨著產品所需的特定價格而改變？

Yes, we believe that -- but this is why our Board approved the project at $7 billion because they see that we expect that we will be able to sell the product at a price and at a premium to get that return. Look, it is not very difficult for the investors to take pen to pencil and just go through order of magnitude that plant to make it simple, assume it is making 3.5 million ton a year of blue ammonia.

是的，我們相信這一點，但這就是為什麼我們的董事會批准了 70 億美元的項目，因為他們認為我們希望能夠以一定的價格和溢價出售產品以獲得回報。看，對於投資者來說，拿起筆來簡單地瀏覽一下該工廠的數量級就可以了，假設它每年生產 350 萬噸藍色氨，這並不是一件很困難的事情。

Assume a price for blue ammonia, you know where the price of gray is obviously, blue is going to be higher than that and then see what the revenue is. And then the cost, it is natural gas costs that you can calculate, it is operating cost that you can calculate, its electricity cost that you can calculate very easily. And then by the time you get done with the math, you'll find out that, that plant has -- at a reasonable price for blue ammonia, it can easily make more than $1.4 billion, $1.5 billion of EBITDA.

假設藍色氨的價格，你顯然知道灰色的價格在哪裡，藍色會高於這個價格，然後看看收入是多少。然後是成本，你可以計算出天然氣成本，你可以計算出營運成本，你可以輕鬆計算電費。然後，當你完成數學計算時，你會發現，該工廠以合理的藍氨價格，可以輕鬆賺取超過 14 億美元、15 億美元的 EBITDA。

So then that or $7 billion becomes a decent return project. So it is not difficult to actually do the calculation. Right now, you know where the price of gray ammonia is. But it is not very difficult to convince yourself that, that project is a very, very good project. The important thing for Air Products is to execute the project and bring the project, get the permit for the classic, well, do the sequestration, those are -- the execution is the challenge for us, but I think the rest of it will work out very nicely.

那麼這 70 億美元就成為了一個不錯的回報項目。所以實際計算起來並不困難。現在你知道灰氨的價格在哪裡了。但要讓自己相信這個專案是一個非常非常好的專案並不難。對於空氣產品公司來說，重要的是執行該項目並帶來該項目，獲得經典的許可證，嗯，進行封存，這些是——執行對我們來說是一個挑戰，但我認為其餘的都會起作用出來非常好。

Kevin McCarthy from Vertical Research Partners.

來自垂直研究合作夥伴的凱文·麥卡錫。

Seifi, about 3 weeks ago, the U.S. government announced its intention to establish 7 regional hydrogen hubs at a cost of $7 billion to be funded by the Bipartisan infrastructure law. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that program. I believe you're involved with the so-called [Archer's] project or hub in California.

Seifi，大約三週前，美國政府宣布打算斥資 70 億美元建立 7 個區域氫中心，由兩黨基礎設施法案資助。我很想聽聽您對該計劃的看法。我相信您參與了加州所謂的 [Archer's] 計畫或中心。

On the one hand, I suppose this accelerate some market development. On the other hand, there are many dozens of partners in these hubs, some of which might be customers, others might be existing competitors or possibly future competitors. So maybe you can put that into context for us in terms of your involvement and how you see that market developing?

一方面，我認為這會加速一些市場的發展。另一方面，這些中心有數十個合作夥伴，其中一些可能是客戶，其他可能是現有競爭對手或可能是未來的競爭對手。那麼也許您可以從您的參與情況以及您如何看待該市場的發展方面為我們介紹這一點？

For that particular project, which is part of the infrastructure project, we have never really emphasized that too much because that in terms of helping what we are doing is not comparable to the IRA. It is $7 billion spread over a lot of different projects. By the time it gets to any one-off individual company and so on, the amount is not that much to move in either.

對於作為基礎設施項目一部分的特定項目，我們從未真正過度強調這一點，因為就幫助我們正在做的事情而言，這是無法與愛爾蘭共和軍相比的。 70 億美元分佈在許多不同的項目中。當它到達任何一次性的個體公司等時，轉移的金額也沒有那麼多。

We obviously welcome any kind of investment to promote the use of hydrogen. That is a positive thing. But in terms of any kind of a material -- we are part of the Archer's, I mean, they have an NDA, we cannot talk about it that much. But fundamentally, that contribution from that infrastructure bill, as you said, $7 billion divided by all of these projects is not going to move the needle for us in terms of what we were or we were not going to do that. We have never counted that as being anything significant.

我們顯然歡迎任何形式的投資來促進氫的使用。這是一件正面的事情。但就任何一種材料而言——我們是弓箭手的一部分，我的意思是，他們有保密協議，我們不能談論太多。但從根本上說，正如您所說，基礎設施法案的貢獻，即 70 億美元除以所有這些項目，不會對我們過去或將來要做的事情產生重大影響。我們從來沒有認為這有什麼重大意義。

That is not comparable anything like the IRA because with the IRA, it becomes very meaningful when you start. We are sequestering in Louisiana, 5 million ton of CO2 at $80, that's $400 million a year of contribution. Obviously, it costs some money to sequester this [year too]. But as I said, the numbers are not comparable. So on the infrastructure bill, we have always said it's a good thing. It obviously is a good thing, it's better than nothing, but it's not something that will make any material difference to what we are doing or not doing.

這是 IRA 無法比擬的，因為有了 IRA，當你開始時它變得非常有意義。我們在路易斯安那州以 80 美元的價格封存 500 萬噸二氧化碳，即每年貢獻 4 億美元。顯然，今年（今年）隔離也需要一些錢。但正如我所說，這些數字沒有可比性。所以在基礎建設法案上，我們一直說這是一件好事。這顯然是一件好事，總比沒有好，但它不會對我們正在做或不做的事情產生任何實質影響。

Okay. And then secondly, if I may, would you comment on your outlook for the corporate and other line. It came down quite a bit in the fiscal fourth quarter, and you've been active on LNG. So maybe you can comment on the forward profile for LNG as well as the controllable expenses flowing through that line in 2024.

好的。其次，如果可以的話，您能否評論一下您對公司和其他業務的前景。第四財季的價格下降了很多，而且你們在液化天然氣方面一直很活躍。因此，也許您可以評論液化天然氣的遠期概況以及 2024 年流經該線路的可控費用。

Sure. I have made this statement in the last quarter, and I'd like to reiterate that, that we do have programs in order to control our corporate cost. We had a significant amount of corporate costs in 2023 because we were pursuing a lot of projects and starting up a lot of projects, those things do cost money, we don't expect that the amount will be as much in 2024.

當然。我在上個季度發表了這一聲明，我想重申，我們確實有計劃來控制我們的公司成本。 2023 年我們的企業成本很高，因為我們正在進行許多項目並啟動很多項目，這些事情確實需要花錢，我們預計 2024 年的金額不會那麼多。

In addition, the fact that our LNG business and so on and the other businesses are doing well, will help on that. So we do expect a reduction of that corporate cost in 2024 versus 2023, quite a significant amount.

此外，我們的液化天然氣業務等以及其他業務表現良好，這一事實將有助於這一點。因此，我們確實預期 2024 年的企業成本將比 2023 年降低，幅度相當大。

Moving on to Stephen Byrne from Bank of America.

接下來是美國銀行的 Stephen Byrne。

Was the strength in hydrogen demand during the quarter in the Americas, specifically in your U.S. Gulf Coast pipeline? And if so, what fraction of those pipeline customers are you in dialogue with about switching them from gray to blue? And if the demand outlook in that region for Blue hydrogen is so robust, are you -- might you potentially consider reducing the design and scope of the Louisiana project and drop the ammonia piece of it, which would include the offshore port and so forth in addition to an ammonia reactor?

本季美洲的氫氣需求是否強勁，特別是美國墨西哥灣沿岸的管道？如果是這樣，您正在與哪些管道客戶進行對話，將他們從灰色轉變為藍色？如果該地區對藍氫的需求前景如此強勁，您是否可能考慮減少路易斯安那州項目的設計和範圍，並放棄其中的氨部分，其中包括離岸港口等除了氨反應器之外？

You are asking a very, very good question. I do not expect that we would get to the stage that we would drop the ammonia part because there will be a robust demand for blue ammonia. But you are very right, the demand for blue hydrogen is growing in that part of the world. We are engaged with all of the customers and the interesting thing is that if we ever expand the project, that is where we can focus more on what you said that maybe produce more blue hydrogen than trying to produce more ammonia.

你問了一個非常非常好的問題。我預計我們不會達到放棄氨部分的階段，因為對藍氨的需求將會強勁。但你是對的，世界那個地區對藍氫的需求正在成長。我們與所有客戶進行了接觸，有趣的是，如果我們擴大該項目，我們可以更多地關注您所說的可能產生更多藍色氫而不是試圖生產更多氨。

So overall, the story is very positive, as you said, and the fact that Air Products has a 700-mile hydrogen pipeline in that part of the world gives us significant advantage in being able to optimize this. But that is a very good position to be. And I think you're pointing out a very good point.

總的來說，正如您所說，這個故事是非常積極的，而且空氣產品公司在世界該地區擁有一條 700 英里的氫氣管道，這一事實為我們在優化這一方面提供了顯著的優勢。但這是一個非常好的位置。我認為你指出了一個非常好的觀點。

And then one follow-on with respect to the Netherlands blue hydrogen project, I believe Air Liquide is also involved in our project with Porthos. And my question for you is, as Netherlands is moving in this direction of blue hydrogen, do you see potential that the rest of Europe might relax its preference for green and embrace blue more?

然後是荷蘭藍色氫氣項目的後續項目，我相信液化空氣集團也參與了我們與 Porthos 的項目。我想問你的問題是，隨著荷蘭正在朝著藍色氫的方向發展，你認為歐洲其他國家有可能放鬆對綠色的偏好並更多地擁抱藍色嗎？

Right now, the blue hydrogen project in Netherlands is very practical because you do have these steam methane reformer there, and it's very efficient to capture the CO2 from there produce blue hydrogen, it's better than the gray hydrogen. But I do not think that, that signals that the fundamental demand for new applications in Europe, especially for mobility and for some of the refineries will go to blue.

目前，荷蘭的藍氫計畫非常實用，因為那裡確實有這些蒸汽甲烷重整器，並且從那裡捕獲二氧化碳非常有效，產生藍氫，它比灰氫更好。但我不認為這表明歐洲對新應用的基本需求，特別是對移動性和一些煉油廠的基本需求將變得藍色。

I think green hydrogen will still be -- will end up being a preference for Europe, as you have seen in the announcement of some of the major possible users. So I think it will be a combination of the two.

我認為綠氫仍然會成為歐洲的首選，正如你在一些主要可能用戶的公告中看到的那樣。所以我認為這將是兩者的結合。

(Operator Instructions) We'll hear next from Josh Spector from UBS.

（操作員說明）接下來我們將聽到瑞銀集團 (UBS) 喬許‧史佩克特 (Josh Spector) 的發言。

It's Chris Perrella on for Josh. A follow-up on, I guess, the volume outlook for this coming year with volumes in Asia down and some of the one-off deals that we did in 2023 rolling off, what are the volume assumptions underpinning your guidance for this coming year?

克里斯佩雷拉 (Chris Perrella) 替補喬許 (Josh)。我想，隨著亞洲交易量的下降以及我們在 2023 年進行的一些一次性交易的結束，來年的交易量前景的後續情況是，支持您來年指導的交易量假設是什麼？

Well, on that point, the way we have looked at this thing and -- it's very difficult to obviously predict the future. But overall, the way we have looked at this thing that you know that our business is very much related to -- not to GDP but to industrial production. So the way we have kind of budgeted ourselves is that industrial production in the U.S. will be positive. And not double digit or anything like that.

嗯，在這一點上，我們看待這件事的方式——顯然很難預測未來。但總的來說，我們看待這個問題的方式與我們的業務密切相關——不是GDP，而是工業生產。因此，我們自己制定預算的方式是，美國的工業生產將是積極的。而且不是兩位數或類似的數字。

Last year, it was about 2.5%, something like that, maybe a little bit less than that. So positive in the U.S., flat in Europe, and down in Asia. That's the very much overall economic condition under which we have produced the guidance for next year.

去年大約是 2.5%，差不多，也許比這個少一點。美國的表現非常積極，歐洲持平，亞洲則下降。這就是我們制定明年指導的總體經濟狀況。

All right. And one quick follow-up on the Rotterdam project. How should we think about the capital spend? And will -- with Porthos taking the CO2 from you, what's the cost involved in having them essentially dispose of it?

好的。還有鹿特丹計畫的快速跟進。我們該如何考慮資本支出？ Porthos 會從你身上奪走二氧化碳，讓他們基本上處理掉這些二氧化碳需要花費多少成本？

Well, they are going to charge us certain dollars per ton for disposing the CO2, which we will obviously pass through to their -- to our customer. We wouldn't be paying for that. And then we obviously -- we have a charge for our capital, and then there is a charge for the sequestration. And I don't think we are at liberty to quote the number that Porthos is going to charge us but at some point in time, they might decide to make that public.

好吧，他們將向我們每噸收取一定的美元來處理二氧化碳，我們顯然會將其轉嫁給他們——我們的客戶。我們不會為此付費。顯然，我們對我們的資本收取費用，然後對封存收取費用。我認為我們不能隨意引用波托斯將向我們收取的費用，但在某個時間點，他們可能會決定將其公開。

But the Dutch government is providing incentives for the CO2 sequestration.

但荷蘭政府正在為二氧化碳封存提供獎勵措施。

But Dr. Serhan is adding that the Dutch government is also contributing on the cost for the sequestration.

但塞爾漢博士補充說，荷蘭政府也在承擔封存費用。

All right. Is there a capital -- a rough capital number for this -- for the carbon capture?

好的。是否有用於碳捕獲的資本（粗略的資本數字）？

We haven't disclosed that. We are not allowed to disclose that. But as I said, it is more than $100 million and less than $1 billion. So somewhere in between. Sorry about that. We are not allowed to disclose the number.

我們還沒有透露這一點。我們不被允許透露這一點。但正如我所說，它超過 1 億美元，不到 10 億美元。所以介於兩者之間。對於那個很抱歉。我們不允許透露這個數字。

Okay. With that, I think we have significantly gone over time. Is there anybody else in the queue, operator?

好的。有了這個，我認為我們已經隨著時間的推移取得了顯著的進步。接線員，隊列中還有其他人嗎？

At this time, there are no additional callers in the queue.

此時，隊列中沒有其他呼叫者。

Okay. Well, with that, I would like to thank everybody for being on our call today. We appreciate your interest in Air Products, and we look forward to discussing our results with you again next quarter. Stay safe, stay healthy and all the best, and have a great day.

好的。嗯，說到這裡，我要感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。我們感謝您對空氣產品公司的興趣，我們期待下季再次與您討論我們的業績。保持安全、保持健康、一切順利，祝您有美好的一天。

That does conclude today's teleconference. We thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝大家的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。