Air Products and Chemicals, Inc. (APD) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Air Products Fourth Quarter Earnings Release Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded at the request of Air Products. Please note that this presentation and the comments made on behalf of Air Products are subject to copyright by Air Products, and all rights are reserved.

早安，歡迎參加 Air Products 第四季財報發布電話會議。應 Air Products 要求，今日會議將進行錄音。請注意，本簡報以及代表 Air Products 所發表之評論均受 Air Products 著作權保護，並保留所有權利。

Beginning today's call is Mr. Sidd Manjeshwar. Please go ahead, sir.

接下來由 Sidd Manjeshwar 先生開始今天的電話會議。先生，請開始。

Thank you, Lynette. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Air Products' Fourth Quarter 2023 Earnings Results Teleconference. This is Sidd Manjeshwar, Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Treasurer. I'm pleased to be joined today by Seifi Ghasemi, our Chairman, President and CEO; Dr. Samir Serhan, our Chief Operating Officer; Melissa Schaeffer, our Chief Financial Officer; and Sean Major, our Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary.

謝謝你，Lynette。各位早安。歡迎參加 Air Products 2023 年第四季財報結果電話會議。我是 Sidd Manjeshwar，投資人關係副總裁兼公司財務長。今天很高興與我一同出席的有：我們的董事長、總裁暨執行長 Seifi Ghasemi；營運長 Samir Serhan 博士；財務長 Melissa Schaeffer；以及執行副總裁、總法律顧問兼公司秘書 Sean Major。

After our comments, we will be pleased to take your questions. Our earnings release and the slides for this call are available on our website at airproducts.com. Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements, including those about earnings and capital expenditure guidance, business outlook and investment opportunities. Please refer to the cautionary note regarding forward-looking statements that is provided in our earnings release and on Slide #2.

在我們發表評論後，我們很樂意回答各位的提問。我們的財報新聞稿以及本次電話會議的簡報投影片已公布於 airproducts.com。今日討論包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關盈餘與資本支出指引、業務展望及投資機會等內容。請參閱我們財報新聞稿以及投影片第 2 頁所提供之關於前瞻性陳述的警示說明。

Additionally, throughout today's discussion, we will refer to various financial measures, including earnings per share, operating income, operating margin, EBITDA, EBITDA margin, the effective tax rate and ROCE, both on a total company and segment basis. Unless we specifically state otherwise, statements regarding these measures are referring to our adjusted non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliation of these measures to our most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found on our website in the relevant earnings release section. Now with that, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Seifi.

此外，在今日討論中，我們將提及多項財務衡量指標，包括每股盈餘、營業利益、營業利益率、EBITDA、EBITDA 利潤率、有效稅率與 ROCE，並同時以公司整體及事業部門為基礎進行說明。除非我們另有明確說明，否則關於這些指標的陳述均係指我們調整後的非 GAAP 財務衡量指標。這些指標與最直接可比較之 GAAP 財務衡量指標的調節表，可於我們網站相關財報新聞稿專區中查閱。接下來，我很高興把電話會議交給 Seifi。

Thank you, Sidd, and good day to everyone. Thank you for taking time from your very busy schedule to be on our call today. I would like to begin with the Slide #3, our safety performance which is our #1 priority at Air Products.

謝謝你，Sidd，各位大家好。感謝各位在百忙之中撥冗參加今天的電話會議。我想先從投影片第 3 頁開始，也就是我們的安全績效；在 Air Products，安全是我們的第一優先。

I'm pleased to share that our safety record has improved compared to last year continuing the significant progress we have made since 2014. Our ultimate goal will always be zero incidents and zero accidents.

我很高興分享，我們的安全紀錄較去年有所改善，延續自 2014 年以來我們所取得的重大進展。我們的最終目標始終是零事件、零事故。

Now please turn to Slide #4, which summarizes our management philosophy. We reiterate these principles every quarter because they are fundamental to how we manage the company and continue to profitably grow our earnings per share.

現在請翻到投影片第 4 頁，該頁總結了我們的管理理念。我們每一季都重申這些原則，因為它們是我們管理公司、並持續以獲利方式成長每股盈餘的根本。

Now please turn to Slide #5. Air Products has a very strong business model and the long-term strategy to deliver consistent earnings growth for the short and the long term, and I stress the long term. Projects in our on-site business where we have long-term take-or-pay contracts with our customers drove our volume growth this year despite economic weakness across the regions. Our on-site business generates stable cash flow and consistently contribute about half of our total sales.

現在請翻到投影片第 5 頁。Air Products 擁有非常強健的商業模式與長期策略，能在短期與長期（我特別強調長期）提供一致的盈餘成長。今年，儘管各地區經濟疲弱，我們現場供氣（on-site）業務中的專案——與客戶簽有長期 take-or-pay（照付不議）合約——仍帶動了我們的銷量成長。我們的現場供氣業務帶來穩定現金流，且一向貢獻約一半的總銷售額。

Also noteworthy is that strong pricing action in our merchant business as well as our ability to contractually pass through energy costs in our on-site business helped us mitigate inflation as well as higher power and energy costs, which we experienced last year. We also continue to successfully execute our long-term strategy to be the leader in blue and green hydrogen for the future with a significant number of green hydrogen, mega projects and their execution. Nobody in the world is matching what we are doing.

同樣值得一提的是，我們在零售（merchant）業務採取強而有力的定價行動，以及我們在現場供氣業務中能依合約將能源成本轉嫁的能力，協助我們緩解通膨以及去年所經歷的較高電力與能源成本。我們也持續成功執行長期策略，致力成為未來藍氫與綠氫的領導者，並推動大量綠氫巨型專案及其執行。全球沒有任何公司能與我們正在做的事情相匹敵。

Finally, our backlog of over $19 billion sets up a multiyear framework for double-digit earnings per share growth which has been our goal since 2014 and remains our goal for the future.

最後，我們超過 190 億美元的在手訂單（backlog）為未來多年建立了每股盈餘雙位數成長的架構；這一直是我們自 2014 年以來的目標，並且仍將是未來的目標。

Now please turn to Slide #6. Our fourth quarter adjusted earnings of $3.15 per share exceeded the top end of our guidance for the quarter and improved $0.30 or 11% versus last year. For the full year fiscal 2023, our adjusted earnings per share of $11.51, improved $1.26 or 12% over prior year, continuing our strong track record of consistently delivering double-digit average earnings growth per share since 2014. We are very proud of the accomplishment in 2013 despite the unfavorable economic conditions.

現在請翻到投影片第 6 頁。我們第四季調整後每股盈餘為 3.15 美元，超出本季指引區間上緣，並較去年增加 0.30 美元或 11%。2023 會計年度全年，我們調整後每股盈餘為 11.51 美元，較前一年增加 1.26 美元或 12%，延續自 2014 年以來我們持續交出每股盈餘雙位數平均成長的強勁紀錄。儘管經濟環境不利，我們對於 2013 年的成果感到非常自豪。

In addition to the strong results, we also made significant progress in our critical deployment -- in our capital deployment strategy this year. Jazan Phase II was completed, both Gulf Coast Ammonia and Jiutai are operational. NEOM project financing was more than 2x oversubscribed and closed successfully. We also added our 4 significant LNG sale of equipment projects. And I'm very pleased to announce that the natural gas-to-syngas facility in Uzbekistan is operational and contributing to our earnings.

除了強勁的業績之外，今年我們在關鍵的資本部署——也就是資本配置策略——方面也取得重大進展。Jazan 第二期已完工，Gulf Coast Ammonia 與 Jiutai 皆已投產營運。NEOM 專案融資認購超過 2 倍並成功完成交割。我們也新增了 4 個重要的 LNG 設備銷售專案。而我也非常高興宣布，烏茲別克的天然氣轉合成氣（syngas）設施已投入營運並開始貢獻盈餘。

Before I go any further, I want to take time to thank all of our employees around the world, every one of the 23,000 of them, for their dedication and hard work which has made it possible for us to deliver these impressive results despite significant economic and geopolitical headwinds.

在我繼續之前，我想花點時間感謝我們全球所有員工——23,000 位同仁中的每一位——他們的投入與辛勤工作，使我們即使面對重大的經濟與地緣政治逆風，仍能交出這些令人印象深刻的成果。

Now please turn to Slide #7. We are continuing to deliver on one we promised to our shareholders in 2014. Executing to deliver an average of at least 10% growth in earnings per share each year as we move forward. We believe our 2-pillar strategy of focusing on our base business, while extending our leadership in the growing demand for clean hydrogen, which enable us to continue to deliver double-digit growth in our EPS as we go forward.

現在請翻到投影片第 7 頁。我們持續兌現 2014 年對股東所做的承諾：在未來前進的過程中，每年執行並交付平均至少 10% 的每股盈餘成長。我們相信，我們的雙支柱策略——專注於核心基礎業務，同時延伸我們在日益成長的潔淨氫需求中的領導地位——將使我們在未來持續交付 EPS 的雙位數成長。

Now please turn to Slide #8. We are proud again of our accomplishment of more than 40 consecutive years of dividend increases. As you can see on this slide, since 2014, we have increased our dividend at an average of 10% every year.

現在請翻到投影片第 8 頁。我們再次為連續超過 40 年提高股利的成就感到自豪。如投影片所示，自 2014 年以來，我們每年平均將股利提高 10%。

Slide #9 shows our EBITDA margin trend, continuing to be my favorite slide. Our margins have increased to nearly 40% in the second half of fiscal year 2023. Confirming the strength of our business model and the significant cash flow that we generate.

投影片第 9 頁顯示我們的 EBITDA 利潤率趨勢，這仍然是我最喜歡的一張投影片。我們的利潤率在 2023 會計年度下半年提升至接近 40%，印證了我們商業模式的強韌，以及我們所創造的可觀現金流。

Now please turn to Slide #10 for our fiscal year 2024 outlook and guidance. Although there will continue to be challenging economic conditions in the near term, I remain very optimistic about Air Products' future. Our capital deployment strategy and strong business model will sustain our double-digit average earning growth rate. Therefore, for fiscal year 2024, we expect adjusted earnings per share in the range of $12.80 to $13.10 per share, up 13% at the midpoint over last year. We expect new projects, many of which are already on stream to drive our earnings per share growth next year.

現在請翻到投影片第 10 頁，了解我們 2024 會計年度的展望與指引。雖然短期內經濟環境仍將充滿挑戰，但我對 Air Products 的未來依然非常樂觀。我們的資本部署策略與強健的商業模式將支撐我們維持每股盈餘雙位數的平均成長率。因此，對於 2024 會計年度，我們預期調整後每股盈餘介於 12.80 至 13.10 美元之間，以中位數計較去年成長 13%。我們預期新專案——其中許多已經投產——將在明年推動我們的每股盈餘成長。

Additionally, we also expect improved LNG sale of equipment activities to add to our favorable results in 2024 and for the first quarter of 2024, our adjusted earnings per share guidance is $2.90 to $3.05, up 10% to 16% over last year. We also see our CapEx for next year, somewhere between $5 billion to $5.5 billion.

此外，我們也預期 LNG 設備銷售活動的改善將在 2024 年帶來更有利的成果；而對於 2024 年第一季，我們的調整後每股盈餘指引為 2.90 至 3.05 美元，較去年成長 10% 至 16%。我們也預估明年的資本支出（CapEx）約在 50 億至 55 億美元之間。

Now please turn to Slide #11. I know that some of our investors refer to our major project commitments slide to track our projects. However, the size and scale of these projects, which all have multiyear execution time frames, certainly now warrant more than time and attention then we can give them in a single line on a singular slide. Therefore, we remain committed to providing investors visibility and meaningful update to scheduled capital and off-take status as we continue to progress our major projects. So from time to time, we will give you a more depth look into our projects.

現在請翻到投影片第 11 頁。我知道部分投資人會參考我們的「重大專案承諾」投影片來追蹤專案。然而，這些專案的規模與量體都非常龐大，且皆有多年期的執行時程，顯然值得投入更多時間與關注，而不是在單一投影片的一行文字中就帶過。因此，隨著我們持續推進重大專案，我們仍致力於向投資人提供能見度，並就預定資本支出與承購（off-take）狀態提供具意義的更新。因此，我們將不時為各位提供更深入的專案介紹。

Today, we have decided to give you an update on our blue hydrogen and blue ammonia clean energy complex in Louisiana which is one of the largest projects that we are executing.

今天，我們決定向各位更新我們在路易斯安那州的藍氫與藍氨潔淨能源園區，這是我們正在執行的最大型專案之一。

Please turn to Slide #12. We announced our intent to build this world scale facility in Louisiana in October of 2021. As we move forward with detailed planning to execute this project, a significant positive event happened in August of 2022. When the United States Congress passed the IRA legislation which created tax incentives for the production of blue and green hydrogen.

請翻到投影片第 12 頁。我們於 2021 年 10 月宣布有意在路易斯安那州興建這座世界級規模的設施。隨著我們推進此專案的詳細規劃與執行，2022 年 8 月發生了一項重大的正面事件：美國國會通過 IRA 法案，為藍氫與綠氫的生產創設稅務優惠。

In addition, by 2022, it was becoming more and more evident that the future demand for blue hydrogen and blue ammonia is improving significantly supported by positive developments in other regions of the world, particularly in Europe and Japan. Not only is there growing need to decarbonize the heavy transportation and industrial sector, such as [sea], but also other growing applications, including using low-carbon intensity blue ammonia to fuel ships, reduce emissions from power plants and more. These events, especially the passage of the IRA legislation, led us to consider that now rather than later is the best time to build the infrastructure for this project, to accommodate future expansion.

此外，截至2022年，愈來愈明顯的是，在全球其他地區（特別是歐洲與日本）正面發展的支持下，未來對藍氫與藍氨的需求正在顯著改善。不僅重型運輸與工業部門（例如[海運]）的去碳化需求日益增加，其他應用也在成長，包括使用低碳強度的藍氨為船舶提供燃料、降低發電廠排放等。這些事件，尤其是IRA法案的通過，使我們認為現在而非更晚才是建置本專案基礎設施、以因應未來擴張的最佳時機。

It is important that we are -- that we pre-invest in the infrastructure needed for future expansion now so that when the demand increases rapidly, as we expect it to, we will be able to bring the next phase of this project on the stream as fast as possible. In addition to the increased cost to build the infrastructure, obviously, the project cost has gone up due to inflation that we are seeing in the past 3 years since we announced the project and anticipate in the future to build this facility.

重要的是，我們必須——我們必須現在就先行投資未來擴張所需的基礎設施，這樣當需求如我們預期般快速增加時，我們就能以最快速度讓本專案的下一階段投入運轉。除了建置基礎設施的成本增加之外，顯然，自我們宣布該專案以來的過去3年所見的通膨，以及我們預期未來建造該設施時的通膨，也使專案成本上升。

In addition to all of this, we have included in the $7 billion funds to cover the interest on capital that we will be using as we build this plant. This facility is a huge facility, we are very excited about its future. We remain totally committed to this project and its profitability. It is a unique one of a kind project that will put us significantly ahead of anybody else in the world in the production of this product.

除此之外，我們在70億美元資金中也納入了用於支付建廠期間所使用資本之利息的費用。這是一座規模龐大的設施，我們對其未來感到非常振奮。我們仍然完全致力於此專案及其獲利能力。這是一個獨特、獨一無二的專案，將使我們在全球該產品的生產方面大幅領先任何其他公司。

We see significant demand for the product that this plant will produce. As a result, I am very pleased to announce today that our Board of Directors has given us final investment approval to proceed with the project at the new capital estimate of $7 billion. We expect this project will deliver double-digit returns to our investors when it is fully on stream.

我們看到本廠將生產之產品具有顯著需求。因此，我非常高興今天宣布，我們董事會已在新的資本估算70億美元下，給予我們最終投資核准以推進該專案。我們預期當該專案全面投運後，將為投資人帶來兩位數的報酬率。

As you know, this project will produce hydrogen and ammonia at very low carbon intensity. As the first company to make this unique low-carbon hydrogen and ammonia products at a large scale, we expect to get a premium for the product, which will allow us to achieve double-digit returns on capital. Additionally, the scale of our activities will provide a cost advantage over other similar projects in development at this time. We are really excited about the future of low carbon hydrogen and ammonia. That is by -- this project in Louisiana is well underway, and we are laying the groundwork to meet the expected additional demand in the future.

如各位所知，本專案將以極低的碳強度生產氫氣與氨。作為第一家以大規模方式生產這些獨特低碳氫與低碳氨產品的公司，我們預期產品可取得溢價，從而使我們能達成資本兩位數報酬率。此外，我們的營運規模將相較於目前正在開發的其他類似專案提供成本優勢。我們對低碳氫與低碳氨的未來感到非常振奮。也因此——路易斯安那州的這個專案進展順利，我們正奠定基礎，以滿足未來預期的額外需求。

The additional infrastructure we are building now will continue to be a competitive advantage for Air Products in the future. Now it is my pleasure to turn the call over to Melissa Schaeffer, our Chief Financial Officer, to give you a summary of the fourth quarter 2023 results. Melissa?

我們現在正在建置的額外基礎設施，未來仍將是Air Products的競爭優勢。現在我很高興把電話會議交給我們的財務長Melissa Schaeffer，請她為各位摘要2023年第四季的業績。Melissa？

Thank you, Seifi. And my thanks to the people of Air Products, who have again delivered double-digit average earnings growth in a difficult environment, an impressive trend that we have achieved in 9 of the past 10 quarters.

謝謝你，Seifi。也感謝Air Products的同仁們，在艱難的環境下再次交出平均獲利兩位數成長的成果；這是一項令人印象深刻的趨勢，我們在過去10個季度中有9個季度達成。

Now please turn to Slide 13 for a review of our fourth quarter results. In comparison to last year, we have again achieved underlying sales growth despite ongoing economic weakness. Merchant price was 4% higher compared to last year, with positive pricing in most regions. This corresponds to a 2% price improvement for the whole company. Higher on-site volumes including strong demand for hydrogen and higher LNG sale of equipment activities were offset by one-time opportunities in the prior year, resulting in flat volumes for the company overall.

現在請翻到投影片13，回顧我們第四季的業績。與去年相比，儘管經濟持續疲弱，我們再次達成基礎銷售成長。商用（merchant）價格較去年提高4%，多數地區定價表現正向。這相當於全公司價格提升2%。現場（on-site）銷量增加（包括氫氣需求強勁）以及LNG設備銷售活動增加，被前一年一次性機會所抵銷，使得公司整體銷量持平。

Declining natural gas costs in Europe and the Americas reduced energy cost pass-through to our on-site customers. This 14% decline in sales has no impact on profit but was a significant contributor to our higher margin. The overall impact of currency was minimal as the strengthening of the euro and British pound against the U.S. dollar was mostly offset by a weak Chinese RMB. EBITDA of $1.3 billion improved 10% as favorable price, variable cost and equity affiliate income more than offset higher other costs. EBITDA was up in 4 of our 5 reporting segments.

歐洲與美洲天然氣成本下降，降低了對現場客戶的能源成本轉嫁。這使銷售額下降14%，對獲利沒有影響，但對我們較高的毛利率是重要貢獻。匯率的整體影響不大，因歐元與英鎊兌美元走強的影響，大多被疲弱的中國人民幣所抵銷。EBITDA為13億美元，成長10%；有利的價格、變動成本與權益法關聯企業收益，足以抵銷較高的其他成本。EBITDA在我們5個報導部門中的4個部門成長。

EBITDA margin jumped more than 700 basis points with lower energy cost pass-through contributed to about 2/3 of the improvement. ROCE progressed steadily to reach 12%, which is 90 basis points higher than last year. We expect to maintain the steady progression as we continue bringing new projects on stream and put the cash on our balance sheet to work. Adjusting for cash, our ROCE would have been relatively flat at 13.4%. Sequentially, results improved primarily due to increased LNG sales equipment activities as well as on-site.

EBITDA利潤率跳升超過700個基點，其中較低的能源成本轉嫁約貢獻了改善幅度的2/3。ROCE穩步提升至12%，較去年高出90個基點。我們預期在持續讓新專案投運，並讓資產負債表上的現金發揮效益的同時，將維持這種穩健的提升趨勢。若扣除現金影響，我們的ROCE將相對持平於13.4%。就季比而言，業績改善主要來自LNG設備銷售活動增加以及現場業務。

Now please turn to Slide 14 for a discussion of our earnings per share. Our fourth quarter adjusted earnings were $3.15 per share, up $0.30 or 11% compared to last year due to strong pricing and higher equity affiliate income, partially offset by unfavorable costs. Price, net of variable costs contributed $0.44 this quarter benefiting from both price actions and lower power costs.

現在請翻到投影片14，討論每股盈餘。我們第四季調整後每股盈餘為3.15美元，較去年增加0.30美元或11%，主要因定價強勁與權益法關聯企業收益增加，部分被不利成本所抵銷。本季價格（扣除變動成本後）貢獻0.44美元，受惠於定價措施以及較低的電力成本。

Cost has been unfavorable impact of $0.28, driven by higher inflation and higher maintenance as well as our ongoing efforts to support our growth strategy, including bringing new assets onstream. Equity affiliate income was $0.19 higher due to the contribution of the second phase of the Jazan project and positive results from other unconsolidated joint ventures across the region. The remaining items, including noncontrolling interest, interest expense and the tax rate together had a modest negative $0.03 impact.

成本帶來0.28美元的不利影響，主要由較高通膨、較高維修費用，以及我們持續支持成長策略的努力所致，包括讓新資產投入運轉。權益法關聯企業收益增加0.19美元，來自Jazan專案第二期的貢獻，以及該地區其他未合併合資企業的正面表現。其餘項目（包括非控制權益、利息費用與稅率）合計帶來小幅負面影響0.03美元。

Now please turn to Slide 15. We remain committed to maintaining our current targeted AA2 rating. And with our strong cash flow and additional debt leverage, we estimate that we can put more than $30 billion to work over the next 10 years. Today, we have a backlog over $19 billion, with approximately $15 billion of projects focused on the energy transition. We believe that investing in these high-return projects is the best way to create long-term shareholder value.

現在請翻到投影片15。我們仍致力於維持目前目標的AA2評等。憑藉強勁的現金流與額外的負債槓桿，我們估計未來10年可投入運用超過300億美元。目前我們的在手訂單（backlog）超過190億美元，其中約150億美元的專案聚焦於能源轉型。我們相信，投資這些高報酬專案是創造長期股東價值的最佳方式。

Now to begin the review of our business segment results, I'll turn the call to Dr. Serhan.

接下來開始回顧各事業部門的業績，我將把電話會議交給Serhan博士。

Thank you, Melissa. Given our first fourth quarter, we again saw broad-based improvements across our businesses. Profits were favorable in 4 out of our 5 segments compared to the previous year.

謝謝你，Melissa。鑑於我們第一個第四季，我們再次看到各項業務呈現廣泛改善。與前一年相比，我們5個部門中有4個部門的獲利表現有利。

Please turn to Slide 16 for a review of our Americas segment results. Compared to last year, merchant price improved 10%, which corresponded to a 4% improvement for the overall region. Volumes grew 3% due to a strong demand for hydrogen. EBITDA of just over $600 million improved 17% driven by strong price, volume and equity affiliate income, while partially offset by higher costs. EBITDA margin 44.5% jumped more than 1,100 basis points. About 2/3 of the margin improvement was driven by lower energy cost pass-through. Sequentially, EBITDA increased 6%, mainly on better hydrogen volume.

請翻到投影片16，回顧美洲部門的業績。與去年相比，商用（merchant）價格提升10%，相當於整體區域價格提升4%。受氫氣需求強勁帶動，銷量成長3%。EBITDA略高於6億美元，成長17%，由強勁的價格、銷量與權益法關聯企業收益所驅動，部分被較高成本所抵銷。EBITDA利潤率44.5%跳升超過1,100個基點，其中約2/3的利潤率改善來自較低的能源成本轉嫁。就季比而言，EBITDA增加6%，主要因氫氣銷量更佳。

Now please turn to Slide 17 for a review of our Asia segment results. Compared to last year, Asia volumes were negatively impacted by a slower economic recovery in China, a weak electronics market and onetime opportunities that benefit last year results. Despite these volume headwinds, our teams maintain focus on price. EBITDA and margin were down primarily due to the unfavorable volumes. Sequentially, price and volume were flat. However EBITDA declined primarily due to unfavorable business mix.

現在請翻到投影片17，回顧亞洲部門的業績。與去年相比，亞洲銷量受到中國經濟復甦較慢、電子市場疲弱，以及使去年業績受惠的一次性機會所帶來的負面影響。儘管面臨這些銷量逆風，我們的團隊仍專注於價格。EBITDA與利潤率下滑主要由不利的銷量所致。就季比而言，價格與銷量持平；然而，EBITDA下滑主要因不利的業務組合。

Please turn to Slide 18 for a review of our Europe segment results. Compared to last year, our costs subsided while merchant pricing remained stable. Growing volumes in our on-site business were offset by weaker demand for merchant products, resulting in flat volumes for the segment overall. EBITDA was up 15%, driven by the lower power costs and stronger currencies against the U.S. dollar, which more than compensated for the other cost increases. EBITDA margin was 1,000 basis points higher, approximately 2/3 of which was due to the impact of lower energy costs pass-through.

請翻到投影片18，回顧歐洲部門的業績。與去年相比，我們的成本回落，而商用定價維持穩定。現場業務銷量成長，被商用產品需求較弱所抵銷，使部門整體銷量持平。EBITDA成長15%，由較低的電力成本以及歐元等貨幣兌美元走強所帶動，這些因素足以彌補其他成本增加。EBITDA利潤率提高1,000個基點，其中約2/3來自較低的能源成本轉嫁影響。

Sequentially, the region's EBITDA was relatively flat as higher volume was offset by unfavorable price and costs. Like we mentioned before, we brought the new project in Uzbekistan on stream last month, earlier than previously anticipated. We expect this project to gradually ramp up and significantly contribute to growth in this segment going forward.

接著來看，該地區的EBITDA相對持平，因為較高的銷量被不利的價格與成本所抵銷。如同我們先前提到的，我們上個月已讓烏茲別克的新專案投產，時間早於先前預期。我們預期該專案將逐步爬坡，並在未來顯著貢獻此分部的成長。

Now please turn to Slide 19. Before we move on to the next roboting segment, I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the recently announced largest blue hydrogen project in Europe. Blue hydrogen project is being developed in conjunction with Porthos, CO2 transport and storage project in the Port of Rotterdam, where we have an extensive hydrogen pipeline network. Porthos will transport the CO2 emission from participating industrial companies and sequester them and depleted gas field in the North Sea.

現在請翻到第19頁。在我們進入下一個機器人分部之前，我想藉此機會強調近期宣布的歐洲最大藍氫專案。該藍氫專案是與Porthos（鹿特丹港的CO2運輸與封存專案）共同開發；我們在該地區擁有廣泛的氫氣管線網路。Porthos將把參與的工業公司所排放的CO2運輸並封存於北海枯竭氣田中。

Air Products will build, own and operate the carbon capture and CO2 treatment facility, which will allow us to capture the emissions from our existing hydrogen facility as well as the customer refinery. The resulting low carbon, hydrogen produced will be supplied to ExxonMobil under a long-term offtake agreement. European regulations are supportive of low-carbon projects. We have secured additional support from the Dutch government. We expect the project to be on stream in 2026.

Air Products將建造、擁有並營運碳捕捉與CO2處理設施，使我們能夠捕捉現有氫氣設施以及客戶煉油廠的排放。所產出的低碳氫氣將依據長期承購協議供應給ExxonMobil。歐洲法規支持低碳專案，我們也已取得荷蘭政府的額外支持。我們預期該專案將於2026年投產。

Now please turn to Slide 20 for a review of our Middle East and India segment. Compared to last year, sales were lower due to lower volume. The second phase of the Jazan project, which we closed in mid-January of this year added to equity affiliate income and it drove the region's overall results.

現在請翻到第20頁，回顧我們的中東與印度分部。與去年相比，銷售額因銷量較低而下降。今年1月中旬完成交割的Jazan專案第二期，帶來權益法投資收益，並推動了該地區的整體表現。

Now please turn to Slide 21 for our corporate and other segment results. This segment includes our sale of equipment businesses as well as our centrally managed functions and corporate costs. The sales and profit for this segment improved this quarter, primarily due to higher LNG sale of equipment activities. We continue to have robust discussions with customer interested in our LNG technology and equipment. We were pleased to announce a significant new project involving sale of equipment in Malaysia last week, adding to our already robust project pipeline. Echoing Seifi and Melissa, the outstanding results this quarter again demonstrate the strength of our businesses. I also would like to thank our teams around the world for their hard work and commitment. I would like now to turn the call back to Seifi to provide his closing remarks.

現在請翻到第21頁，查看我們公司本部及其他分部的結果。此分部包含我們的設備銷售業務，以及集中管理的職能與公司成本。本季該分部的銷售與獲利改善，主要由於LNG設備銷售活動增加。我們持續與對我們LNG技術與設備有興趣的客戶進行熱絡討論。上週我們很高興宣布在馬來西亞一項涉及設備銷售的重要新專案，進一步充實我們原本就相當強勁的專案儲備。呼應Seifi與Melissa，本季的優異成果再次展現我們業務的實力。我也要感謝全球各地團隊的辛勤付出與投入。接下來我想把電話交回Seifi，請他做結語。

Thank you very much, Dr. Serhan. I appreciate that. Now please turn to Slide #22. We present this slide during every earnings call because it is our core belief that the commitment and motivation of our people are the key drivers of our success. After all, technologies, processes and physical assets, which are often cited as competitive advantages are all created by people in the organization.

非常感謝您，Serhan博士。我很感激。現在請翻到第22頁。我們在每次法說會都會呈現這張投影片，因為我們的核心信念是：員工的承諾與動力是我們成功的關鍵驅動力。畢竟，常被視為競爭優勢的技術、流程與實體資產，都是由組織中的人所創造。

At Air Products, we have built an outstanding organization. Our people working together are creating innovative technologies, processes and facilities that are making us a first mover in supporting the transition to lower and zero carbon energy and decarbonizing the transportation and industrial sectors. We are doing this alongside our excellent core industrial gases business, which has also underpinned -- which is also underpinned by sustainability and delivering significant productivity and environmental benefits to our customers around the world.

在Air Products，我們建立了一個卓越的組織。我們的同仁攜手合作，正在創造創新技術、流程與設施，使我們在支持向低碳與零碳能源轉型，以及交通與工業部門去碳化方面成為先行者。我們在推動這些工作的同時，也擁有優秀的核心工業氣體業務作為支撐——該業務同樣以永續為基礎，並為全球客戶帶來顯著的生產力與環境效益。

At Air Products, our higher purpose is to bring people together to collaborate and innovate solutions to significant energy and environmental challenges in our world. I can say that our entire team is focused on sustainable growth opportunities in generating a cleaner future for humanity. With that, we are now ready to answer any of your questions, and we welcome them. Operator, we are ready for questions, please.

在Air Products，我們更高的使命是凝聚人們，共同協作並創新解決方案，以應對世界重大的能源與環境挑戰。我可以說，我們整個團隊都專注於永續成長機會，為人類創造更潔淨的未來。接下來我們準備回答各位的問題，並歡迎提問。接線生，我們準備開始問答，請。

(Operator Instructions) We'll take your first caller from John McNulty from BMO Capital Markets.

（接線生指示）我們先請BMO Capital Markets的John McNulty提問。

So I guess I wanted to dig into the Louisiana project a little bit more and the incremental $2.5 billion of spend. I guess it sounds like there's a bunch of buckets including capitalized interest, taking over more utilities, kind of expanding the scope of the project. I guess, can you help us to put into buckets where the bulk of that $2.5 billion is going?

我想更深入了解一下路易斯安那專案，以及新增的25億美元支出。聽起來似乎分成好幾個項目，包括資本化利息、接手更多公用設施，以及某種程度上擴大專案範圍。你們能否協助我們把這25億美元主要花到哪些項目上做個分類？

John, excellent question. Number one, obviously, as we said, we announced this project 2.5 years ago. Everybody knows that there has been inflation, there is no escaping that, and there will be inflation as we continue to do this project. The labor markets are tight. Some of the supply equipment and so on are tight. Therefore, there is significant inflation that we have had to deal with, and we have included that in the new capital project.

John，問得很好。第一，正如我們所說，這個專案是2.5年前宣布的。大家都知道通膨一直存在，無法避免，而且在我們持續推進專案的過程中仍會有通膨。勞動市場緊俏，一些供應設備等也很吃緊。因此，我們必須面對顯著的通膨壓力，而我們已將其納入新的資本專案金額中。

Order of magnitude, I mean, let's say that it's about $1 billion or more is inflation. The rest of it is the fact that we have, as I said during the call, we have put in interest on capital. Obviously, as capital goes up, we do charge ourselves interest during our own capital because otherwise, we would apply it somewhere. So that is a significant part of that $2.5 billion.

以量級來看，我的意思是，假設大約有10億美元或更多是通膨因素。其餘部分則是如我在電話會議中提到的，我們把資本利息計入其中。顯然，當資本支出上升時，我們會對自有資本計提利息，因為否則這些資本原本可以用在其他地方。因此，這也是那25億美元中的一個重要部分。

And then in addition to that, we have decided -- because we see demand for this product being significant, that right now, some of the fundamental infrastructure, we want to build it bigger, so that when we want to expand, we don't have to build smaller units again, right? Things like water supply, things like land preparation, things like we bought additional 1,000 acres for expansion.

此外，我們也決定——因為我們看到該產品的需求將相當可觀——目前一些基礎設施我們希望一次建得更大，這樣未來要擴產時，就不必再去建較小的單元，對吧？例如供水、土地整備，以及我們為了擴建另外購買了1,000英畝土地。

So that -- it's a combination of all of that, that adds up to the $2.5 billion, you would say, increase. We also have put in contingency and we have reviewed this thing in detail with our Board, and I'm very happy that they have supported us. But I keep going back to the fundamental issue that we are reiterating, but we are pleased, very carefully that we expect double-digit return now on $7 billion, better than double-digit return on $4.5 billion.

所以——這些因素的組合加總起來，就形成你所說的25億美元增額。我們也納入了預備費（contingency），並已與董事會就此進行詳細審查；我很高興他們支持我們。但我仍要回到我們一再重申的根本重點：我們很審慎地感到滿意，因為我們現在預期在70億美元投資上可取得兩位數報酬率，且相較於45億美元投資時的兩位數報酬率還要更好。

So if you want to look at it in a glass half full, we are actually going to make more money than before. John, I cannot overstress the fact that we see the demand for the product, materializing, it is serious. And as we go forward, we will be able to demonstrate that to you. But this is a very exciting project. It's a unique project. We are executing it. We are in the field and our people are very excited about it, and we are all very excited and very positive about this project.

所以如果你用「半杯滿」的角度來看，我們其實會比以前賺更多錢。John，我再怎麼強調都不為過：我們看到該產品的需求正在實現，而且是很認真的。隨著我們往前推進，我們也將能向你證明這一點。這是一個非常令人振奮的專案，是獨特的專案。我們正在執行，已在現場施工，我們的同仁對此非常興奮，我們也都對這個專案感到非常興奮且非常正面。

Got it. And then I guess my second question would just be on the Netherlands project. It sounds like it's an interesting kind of emerging opportunity. Can you help us to think about how much capital may get put to work on that project and how you're thinking about the returns for it as well?

了解。那我第二個問題是關於荷蘭的專案。聽起來這是一個有趣、正在浮現的機會。你們能否協助我們思考這個專案可能會投入多少資本，以及你們對其報酬率的看法？

Yes. I'm going to add Dr. Serhan will give you more color, but obviously, the return for that will be double digits as like anything else we do. But Dr. Serhan is very close to that project, and I'd like him to comment on that. Samir?

好的。我先補充一下，Serhan博士會提供更多細節；但很明顯，該專案的報酬率會是兩位數，就像我們做的其他專案一樣。Serhan博士非常了解這個專案，我想請他來評論。Samir？

Thanks, Seifi. We're really not going to talk about the specific about the capital for the project. But; again, it's a very exciting opportunity. It's our third project in our first mover advantage when it comes to blue hydrogen. We started with the net 0 blue hydrogen project in Edmonton, Canada, and we went to the Louisiana double project. And now this is really the third and it's really the biggest also in Europe.

謝謝你，Seifi。我們不會談該專案的具體資本金額。不過，再次強調，這是一個非常令人振奮的機會。就藍氫的先行者優勢而言，這是我們的第三個專案。我們從加拿大愛德蒙頓的淨零藍氫專案開始，接著是路易斯安那的雙專案，而現在這個確實是第三個，而且也是歐洲規模最大的。

Very excited about it with long-term offtake agreement with a subsidiary of ExxonMobil Esso. We capture -- we will capture CO2 from our existing hydrogen facility in the Port of Rotterdam and we will also capture CO2 from another Exxon hydrogen plant where we basically provided to Porthos to sequester under the North Sea. Again, emphasizing the double-digit return for the project.

我們對此非常興奮，因為我們與ExxonMobil旗下Esso的子公司簽有長期承購協議。我們將捕捉——我們將從鹿特丹港現有的氫氣設施捕捉CO2，同時也會從另一座Exxon的氫氣工廠捕捉CO2，並基本上交由Porthos在北海下方封存。再次強調，該專案的報酬率為兩位數。

We'll hear next from John Roberts from Mizuho.

接下來我們將聽取來自瑞穗的 John Roberts 提問。

Nice quarter. Staying on the blue hydrogen project in Europe, anything unique about the gas sourcing for that project? Given Europe's disadvantaged gas situation? And is that replacing existing hydrogen capacity? Or is your customer expanding their demand?

本季表現不錯。延續歐洲藍氫專案的話題，該專案在天然氣來源方面是否有任何特殊之處？考量到歐洲天然氣處於不利情勢？另外，這是在替代既有的氫氣產能嗎？還是你們的客戶正在擴大其需求？

I can answer that, and then if Dr. Serhan wants to add to that. But fundamentally, it is an existing plant that we have -- existing plants that Exxon has. We have their technology and the know-how, we are going to put carbon capture on these existing units and capture the carbon and put it in this pipeline to go and be sequester. So we are actually reducing CO2 emission into the air.

我可以先回答，然後如果 Serhan 博士想補充也可以。基本上，這是一座我們已有的工廠——更準確地說，是埃克森（Exxon）既有的工廠。我們擁有他們的技術與專業知識，我們將在這些既有裝置上加裝碳捕集，將碳捕集後透過這條管線送去封存。因此，我們實際上是在降低排放到空氣中的二氧化碳（CO2）。

This is not a new plant that people say, where you are building a new plant you are capturing the CO2, but you're not really reducing existing emission. This is really reducing existing emissions. And that is where our technology is, and that's where our know-how is. And therefore, it's a very positive project, it's received very positively. And it is a significant project. You don't want to disclose the exact amount because of the NDAs that we have. But it is not a $10 million project, but it's not a $2 billion project either, but it's a substantial amount of capital. Dr. Serhan, do you want to add anything to it?

這不是那種大家所說的新建工廠——你新建一座工廠並捕集 CO2，但其實並沒有真正減少既有排放。這個專案是真正在降低既有排放。而這正是我們技術所在，也是我們專業能力所在。因此，這是一個非常正面的專案，市場反應也非常正面，而且規模相當可觀。我們不想披露確切金額，因為我們有保密協議（NDA）。但它不是 1,000 萬美元的專案，也不是 20 億美元的專案，但確實需要相當可觀的資本投入。Serhan 博士，你要補充什麼嗎？

Again, it's really emphasizing no additional hydrogen. It's just really converting gray hydrogen to blue hydrogen. And again, with full support of the Dutch government for low carbon and hydrogen.

再次強調，這裡並沒有新增氫氣產量；只是把灰氫轉換成藍氫。而且同樣地，荷蘭政府對低碳與氫能提供全力支持。

And on the volume weakness in China, could you peel apart syngas versus electronics versus merchant (inaudible)?

另外關於中國的出貨量走弱，你能否把合成氣（syngas）與電子產業，以及商用（inaudible）分開說明？

John, that is a very, very good question. I've been trying to get a handle on that myself, which is not that easy, but where the weakness is. But there is obviously weakness in the electronics, but there is a weakness in the fundamental Chinese economy and we are beginning to see that.

John，這是一個非常、非常好的問題。我自己也一直在試著掌握到底疲弱出在哪裡，但這並不容易。不過，電子相關確實有疲弱，同時中國整體經濟基本面也有疲弱，我們開始看到這一點。

So I don't want to go through all of the details of the breakdowns, but we are seeing a general weakness. And hopefully, that trend will change, but that -- despite that, we are giving you the guidance that we are giving you because we are saying that if the Chinese economy doesn't develop as well as it should, then what we will take additional productivity measures to make sure we deliver the guidance that we have given you.

所以我不想逐一細談所有拆分細節，但我們看到的是普遍性的疲弱。希望這個趨勢會改變；但即便如此，我們仍給出目前的指引，因為我們的看法是：如果中國經濟發展不如預期，那麼我們會採取額外的生產力提升措施，以確保我們能達成已提供的指引。

(Operator Instructions) We'll hear next from Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley.

（接線員指示）接下來我們將聽取來自摩根士丹利的 Vincent Andrews 提問。

Seifi, I wanted to follow up on Louisiana in two ways. One, it sounds like some of the incremental CapEx will be spent now, but the benefits won't necessarily accrue to the company at the time the first phase starts up. So I just want to understand, you'll have $7 billion of total CapEx spent when the project starts up. And traditionally, we think of your return coming to the company in that first year. Will you not get the full -- would you not get the return on the full $7 billion of CapEx when you start up? Or you have to wait until Phase II to get some of the return on some of the infrastructure and real estate spend that you're doing incrementally?

Seifi，我想從兩個面向追問路易斯安那（Louisiana）。第一，聽起來部分新增資本支出（CapEx）會在現在投入，但效益未必會在第一期投產時就反映到公司。我想確認的是：專案啟動時你們總計將投入 70 億美元 CapEx。傳統上我們會認為回報會在投產第一年就開始回到公司。你們在投產時是否無法就全部 70 億美元 CapEx 取得完整回報？還是必須等到第二期（Phase II），才能取得你們現在額外投入的部分基礎設施與不動產支出的回報？

Vincent, excellent question. We are not going to leave any money on the table. We are going to price the product in such a way that we get double-digit return on the project on the $7 billion right from the start.

Vincent，問題非常好。我們不會把任何錢留在桌上。我們會以能讓專案在 70 億美元投入上自一開始就取得兩位數報酬率的方式來訂價產品。

And then secondly if I -- go ahead.

然後第二點，如果我——請繼續。

Yes. no, no, after you.

是的。不不不，你先。

Okay. And then secondly, I wanted to ask about your Canadian project. I believe your -- one of your offtake partners is also constructing a facility up there in part to use your product. And I believe that at an investor event earlier in September, where that project might be delayed. If that project is delayed, how does that impact Air Products economics and their ability to market their own product?

好的。第二個問題是關於你們的加拿大專案。我相信你們——你們的一位承購（offtake）夥伴也正在那裡建造一座設施，部分是為了使用你們的產品。我也記得在 9 月稍早的一場投資人活動中提到該專案可能會延遲。如果該專案延遲，這會如何影響 Air Products 的經濟性，以及他們行銷自家產品的能力？

Well, I would like to answer that is that first of all, we are committed to meeting the requirements of our customer. So whenever our customers comes on stream, we will have our plans ready for them. They are a very valued customer. You know who they are, Exxon, and they are one of our largest customers, and we have a lot of respect for them. And we worked with them very closely.

我想回答的是：首先，我們致力於滿足客戶的需求。因此，無論我們的客戶何時投產，我們都會為他們準備好我們的計畫。他們是非常重要的客戶。你知道他們是誰——埃克森（Exxon），他們是我們最大的客戶之一，我們非常尊重他們，也與他們非常密切合作。

In terms of if they are delayed, then we are ready -- not 100% of the product is going to them. We have other customers that we believe will be taking the product on time. We have a liquid hydrogen plant that we are going to feed. Therefore, we would expect that the effect on Air Products would not be that material.

至於如果他們延遲，我們也已做好準備——而且並非 100% 的產品都供給他們。我們還有其他客戶，我們相信他們會按時承接產品。我們也有一座液態氫工廠需要供料。因此，我們預期對 Air Products 的影響不會那麼重大。

We'll hear next from David Begleiter from Deutsche Bank.

接下來我們將聽取來自德意志銀行的 David Begleiter 提問。

This is David Huang here for Dave. I guess, on the major project slide, are there any other material changes on other projects in terms of project cost and the time line that you haven't updated? And also, I guess, on project costs, if I think about the cost inflation on Louisiana project, that's about 20%. Why shouldn't that be the case for other projects that you have in your pipeline?

我是 David Huang，代 Dave 提問。我想問，在重大專案投影片上，除了你們已更新的內容之外，其他專案在專案成本與時程方面是否還有任何重大的變動尚未更新？另外，談到專案成本，如果我看路易斯安那專案的成本通膨大約是 20%。為什麼你們管線中的其他專案不也會出現同樣情況？

Well, first of all, with respect to other projects, there is no material change in the profitability of those projects that we want to bring to your attention now. And as I said in my call, with some of these bigger projects as we go forward in our earnings calls, we give you more detail about the different projects.

首先，關於其他專案，目前沒有任何我們想在此刻提醒各位的、在獲利能力方面的重大變動。正如我在電話會議中所說，對於一些較大型的專案，隨著我們後續的財報電話會議進行，我們會提供更多不同專案的細節。

The second thing is that if you take a look at the inflation thing, we -- one of the biggest projects we are executing was Jazan. That is already done. The next project, a big project was NEOM. We have already given you the capital for that, and we don't expect any significant inflation on that. That is in our backlog. [With thereof], we gave you the numbers right now. The projects that we are doing -- the other projects that we are doing are in such a way that the return is connected to the capital. So even if the capital goes up, the return doesn't go down. So there is nothing that material to report at that stage.

第二點，如果你看通膨這件事，我們——我們執行過的最大專案之一是 Jazan，那已經完成了。下一個大型專案是 NEOM，我們已經提供了該專案的資本額，我們不預期那裡會有任何顯著通膨。那已在我們的在手訂單（backlog）中。[With thereof]，我們現在已把數字提供給你們。我們正在做的——其他正在進行的專案，其設計方式是讓報酬率與資本投入連動。因此，即使資本上升，報酬率也不會下降。所以在這個階段沒有任何重大的事項需要報告。

Okay. Yes. And then in F Q1, European pricing was down 1%. Is there any specific competitive dynamic that resulted in that 1% decline because I don't think you have a decline in pricing for a long time. And I think your peer is still seeing some price increase in Europe in F Q4. Can you just talk about what's causing that and then your expectation on pricing in Europe and then just in general for next year?

好的。然後在 FQ1，歐洲定價下滑 1%。是否有任何特定的競爭動態導致這 1% 的下滑？因為我認為你們已經很久沒有出現定價下滑。而且我想你們的同業在歐洲 FQ4 仍看到一些價格上漲。你能談談造成這個情況的原因，以及你們對歐洲定價的預期，還有更一般地對明年的看法嗎？

Well, I would obviously love to answer your question in detail. But you know that we do have a very strong policy and we adhere to that. All of us adhere to that. We do not talk about forward-looking on price. That is not appropriate in our industry, and we can talk to you about what has happened in the past, but we do not have any opinion or any suggestions about what is going to happen in the future. And so -- my apologies, I will not be able to answer that question following our policy and my Chief Legal Officer is nodding, he said that I'm doing the right thing.

我當然很希望能詳細回答你的問題。但你也知道，我們有非常嚴格的政策，而且我們都遵守。我們不談價格的前瞻性展望。在我們這個產業這並不適當；我們可以跟你談過去發生了什麼，但我們不會對未來會發生什麼提出任何意見或暗示。所以——很抱歉，基於我們的政策我無法回答這個問題；而且我的法務長正在點頭，他說我這樣做是對的。

We'll move next to Mike Leithead from Barclays.

接下來我們轉到 Barclays 的 Mike Leithead。

Great. First, I want to circle back on Louisiana. You just answered an earlier question, I think, talking about pricing the product appropriately to get your double-digit return upon startup, which is great. But when should investors expect the signed offtake agreement to help us get a bit more comfortable with the revenue stream from the projects?

很好。首先我想回到路易斯安那。你剛剛回答了先前的一個問題，我想你提到會透過適當的產品定價，讓你們在投產時就能取得兩位數報酬率，這很好。但投資人應該何時預期會看到已簽署的承購（offtake）協議，以便讓我們對專案的營收來源更安心一些？

Well, on that point, I have been very kind of -- very clear about what is our philosophy. We could have signed agreements -- long-term agreements for selling that product 2 years ago. But we always said that we do not want to do that because as we go forward, it is going to become very clear to prospective customers that there are not that many plants or sources of low carbon -- the level of low carbon intensity, hydrogen and blue ammonia that we are going to produce.

關於這點，我一直——一直很清楚地說明我們的理念。我們其實在兩年前就可以簽下銷售該產品的長期合約。但我們一直說我們不想那樣做，因為隨著時間推進，潛在客戶會越來越清楚：能提供低碳——以我們將要生產的那種低碳強度水準的氫氣與藍氨的工廠或來源並不多。

And therefore, the value of our products will go higher. We are not in a hurry to sign long-term agreements. The demand is going to be there. But right now, if you are negotiating with any of these prospective customers, to be very frank, they give you a list of 20 projects that, oh, wait a minute, I can buy from this guy in the Middle East and this guy in Louisiana and this project and this project.

因此，我們產品的價值將會提高。我們不急著簽署長期協議。需求一定會在那裡。但就目前而言，如果你正在與任何這些潛在客戶談判，坦白說，他們會給你一份包含 20 個專案的清單，說：喔，等一下，我可以向中東的這個人買、向路易斯安那的那個人買，還有這個專案、那個專案。

All of those projects are paper projects. Nobody is doing anything. We are the only people who are actually building a plant. So we have another 2, 3 years before these plants come on stream. We should not be in a hurry to go and sell this stuff cheap just because that makes everybody feel happy. We -- our business, our goal, our responsibility is to make as much money as we can for the shareholders.

那些專案全都是紙上談兵的專案。沒有人真的在做任何事。我們是唯一真正正在建廠的人。所以在這些工廠投產之前，還有 2、3 年。我們不應該急著把這些產品便宜賣掉，只因為那樣會讓大家覺得開心。我們——我們的業務、我們的目標、我們的責任，是為股東盡可能賺取最多的錢。

We think the value of these products will become higher as we get closer to where the demand is there, and there is not that many people who are supplying it. So do not expect for us to come and make a big announcement about selling this product in the near future because we are just not going to do that. We believe that the demand is there. Our customers know that the demand is there. It's just a little bit of a game about at what point people are going to come to the table, and we just don't think that right now is the time to do that.

我們認為，隨著我們更接近需求真正出現的時間點，而供應者又不多，這些產品的價值會變得更高。所以不要期待我們在近期會出來做一個關於銷售這項產品的重大公告，因為我們就是不會那麼做。我們相信需求存在。我們的客戶也知道需求存在。這只是個小小的博弈：人們會在什麼時點坐到談判桌前，而我們不認為現在就是那個時候。

But obviously, at some point in time, we do want to sell the product, there's no question about that. But it's just the fact that we are trying to get the maximum value for the very unique product that we are going to be making. Nobody else in the world is producing this kind of product. And by the time this plant comes on stream, there is nobody else who is going to be producing this product at this scale because nobody has made the commitment and it takes a long time to develop these projects and build these projects.

但很明顯，在某個時間點，我們確實想要銷售產品，這毫無疑問。只是我們正努力為我們即將生產的、非常獨特的產品爭取最大價值。全球沒有其他人在生產這種產品。而且等到這座工廠投產時，也不會有其他人以這種規模生產這項產品，因為沒有人做出承諾，而開發並建設這些專案需要很長時間。

And then second, just a quick follow-up on cash flow maybe for Melissa. I think operating cash flow the past 2 years is about $3.2 billion, whereas CapEx is running about $5 billion, and the dividend is about $1.5 billion, (inaudible). So leverage is obviously moving a bit higher short term. When in your multiyear outlook, would you expect that to peak out? Or when should we start to see operating cash flow helped by the project start to move meaningfully higher in your view?

第二個問題，關於現金流，可能給 Melissa 一個簡短追問。我想過去 2 年的營運現金流大約是 32 億美元，而資本支出（CapEx）大約是 50 億美元，股利大約是 15 億美元，（聽不清）。所以短期槓桿顯然在略為上升。在你們的多年期展望中，你們預期槓桿會在何時見頂？或者你認為我們何時會開始看到在專案投產帶動下，營運現金流出現有意義的上升？

I'll make a general comment, and then I'll turn it over to Melissa to give you more details if necessary. But fundamentally, we have always been telling you that we are committed to maintaining our A rating. That means that we will not lever the company more than about 3.5x. If we ever get to that stage, we'll stop doing projects.

我先做一個概括性的評論，然後再請 Melissa 在需要時提供更多細節。但從根本上說，我們一直告訴各位，我們致力於維持我們的 A 級評等。這意味著我們不會把公司的槓桿拉高到大約 3.5 倍以上。如果我們真的到了那個階段，我們就會停止做專案。

We are going to be responsible. We have significant opportunity. And as Melissa has shown you on the other slides, we still have a lot of headroom to lever the company before we run out of cash. But if we ever get to the stage, I just want to make the point, if we get to the stage that we are getting to the limit of 3.5 then we would slow down on the projects. We are not going to be irresponsible and try to lever the company because we are very committed to our A rating. That is the general comment. Specifically, Melissa, do you want to add to that?

我們會負責任。我們有很大的機會。如同 Melissa 在其他投影片向各位展示的，在我們現金用盡之前，我們仍有相當大的加槓桿空間。但如果我們真的到了那個階段——我想強調的是——如果我們到了接近 3.5 倍上限的階段，我們就會放慢專案進度。我們不會不負責任地試圖提高公司槓桿，因為我們非常致力於維持 A 級評等。這是一般性的評論。具體而言，Melissa，你要補充嗎？

Sure. Thanks, Seifi. So as you mentioned, we do continue to have very strong cash flow to support our ongoing business. We do continue to increase dividends, which is our commitment and we are executing against our global project backlog. With that situation, because of the cash outlay, we do expect to go to the debt market this year -- this fiscal year.

好的，謝謝 Seifi。正如你提到的，我們持續擁有非常強勁的現金流來支撐我們的既有業務。我們也持續提高股利，這是我們的承諾，而且我們正在執行我們的全球專案儲備（backlog）。在這種情況下，由於現金支出，我們預期今年——本會計年度——會進入債務市場。

With that being said, as we bring these assets on stream, we will, of course, naturally be delevered. So that will be a decrease in our leverage and obviously, we'll continue to maintain that AA2 rating as Seifi mentioned. So again, likely will go out this year with the cash needs, but we do feel very comfortable that we will stay within that 2x leverage so that we can maintain our AA2 rating.

話雖如此，隨著這些資產投產，我們當然會自然去槓桿化。因此，我們的槓桿將會下降，而且如 Seifi 所提到的，我們會持續維持 AA2 評等。所以同樣地，基於今年的資金需求，我們很可能會在今年發債，但我們非常有信心能把槓桿維持在 2 倍以內，以便維持我們的 AA2 評等。

Jeff Zekauskas from JPMorgan.

接下來是來自摩根大通（JPMorgan）的 Jeff Zekauskas。

The working capital was a use of $424 million this year and your undistributed earnings of equity method investments was negative $260 million. So if you add that up, that $685 million, that was pulled away from cash from operations. And so your cash flow was flat year-over-year. For 2024, what do you expect then? $3.5 billion, $4 billion, more than $4 billion is working capital and outflow or an inflow? Can you explain your cash flow dynamics for next year?

今年營運資金使用了 4.24 億美元，而你們按權益法投資的未分配盈餘是負 2.60 億美元。所以加總起來，這 6.85 億美元從營運現金流中被抽走。因此你們的現金流年對年持平。那麼對 2024 年，你們預期如何？35 億美元、40 億美元、還是高於 40 億美元？營運資金是流出還是流入？你能解釋一下你們明年的現金流動態嗎？

Jeff, as usual you are asking a very good and a very detailed question. And I'm going to refer that details to Melissa to give you some color on that. Melissa?

Jeff，你一如往常問了一個非常好、而且非常細節的問題。我會把細節交給 Melissa，請她提供一些說明。Melissa？

Yes, absolutely. Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate your questions, and you always definitely have very interesting and detailed questions. So as we mentioned, we do still have a very strong cash inflow. This year, we had a few significant large cash outflows, including the closing of our Phase II for Jazan that happened in January.

是的，當然。謝謝你，Jeff。我很感謝你的提問，你的問題一向都非常有趣且很細緻。正如我們提到的，我們仍然有非常強勁的現金流入。今年我們有幾筆重大的大型現金流出，包括我們在 1 月完成了 Jazan 的第二期交割。

However, with that being said, working capital is still being largely funded by our ongoing influent trade activities. This year, as we mentioned, we do expect to have CapEx at around $5 billion to $5.5 billion, which is not far off where we were this year, including the closing of the Jazan joint venture. So we are very comfortable given our current cash flow that we will be able to meet ongoing working capital needs as well as execute against our growth strategy.

不過，即便如此，營運資金仍主要由我們持續的 influent 貿易活動所支應。今年如我們提到的，我們預期資本支出約為 50 億至 55 億美元，與今年的水準相差不遠，其中包含 Jazan 合資案的交割。因此，基於我們目前的現金流，我們非常有信心能滿足持續的營運資金需求，同時也能執行我們的成長策略。

Okay. All right. For my follow-up, if your investment in Louisiana is going to be $7 billion, is that $7 billion to be spent by 2026? And so should we assume that your CapEx in 2025 and '26 should be higher than the $5 billion to $5.5 billion range you've got for '24?

好的。那我追問一下，如果你們在路易斯安那的投資將是 70 億美元，這 70 億美元會在 2026 年前花完嗎？因此我們是否應該假設你們在 2025 年和 2026 年的資本支出會高於你們對 2024 年所給的 50 億至 55 億美元區間？

Yes, I'll take that question. We have announced officially today that we expect the project cost to be $7 billion. We have not announced that we expect that Air Products will spend $7 billion on building the project. We can, as we go forward and we sign long-term agreements to sell the product, we can and we will seriously consider like we did with NEOM to lever the project and finance the project.

是的，這題我來回答。我們今天已正式宣布，我們預期該專案成本為 70 億美元。但我們並沒有宣布 Air Products 會為建造該專案支出 70 億美元。隨著我們往前推進並簽署長期產品銷售協議，我們可以、也會像在 NEOM 一樣，認真考慮對專案加槓桿並以專案融資來籌措資金。

So you might end up that out of the $7 billion our actual cash outlay for the project might be $2 billion, $2.5 billion, $3 billion, not $7 billion. So there is a possibility of doing that. Please don't forget that. So we are -- we have the capacity to spend our own cash, but we would rather project finance these products so that we have more cash for future projects. And this -- we have demonstrated, we did this with Jazan, where it was a $12 billion project and the project financed that. We have done that with NEOM.

所以最後可能在 70 億美元之中，我們對該專案的實際現金支出可能是 20 億、25 億、30 億美元，而不是 70 億美元。所以確實有這樣做的可能性。請不要忘記這一點。所以我們——我們有能力用自有現金支出，但我們更希望用專案融資來為這些產品專案籌資，讓我們能保留更多現金用於未來專案。而且——我們已經證明過了，我們在 Jazan 就這麼做過，那是一個 120 億美元的專案，而且是以專案融資完成。我們在 NEOM 也做過。

And there is a good possibility, I'm not saying 100%, but there is a good possibility that we will do that with this project, which is a very interesting project and very amenable to having project finance. Okay, Jeff?

而且有很大的可能性——我不是說 100%——但有很大的可能性，我們也會在這個專案上採取同樣做法。這是一個非常有意思的專案，也非常適合採用專案融資。好的，Jeff？

Moving next to Marc Bianchi from TD Cowen.

接下來是 TD Cowen 的 Marc Bianchi。

I'd first like to ask for an update on the NEOM project. Can you talk about progress there, remind us of the time line and any updates on potential offtake agreements?

我首先想請你們更新一下 NEOM 專案的情況。你們能談談目前的進度、再提醒我們一下時間表，以及任何關於潛在承購（offtake）協議的最新進展嗎？

Our NEOM project is moving forward very nicely. We are certainly almost done with the engineering. We are actually constructing the plant. We have, as you saw an announcement today by NEOM green hydrogen company that they are taking delivery of the wind turbines. So that project is expected, right now, the time line that we have announced is at the end of 2026, beginning of 2027, and we fully expect to meet that deadline.

我們的 NEOM 專案進展非常順利。我們的工程設計幾乎已經完成。實際上我們正在建造工廠。正如你今天看到 NEOM 綠氫公司發布的公告，他們正在接收風力渦輪機。因此，該專案目前預期的時程是我們所公布的 2026 年底、2027 年初，我們完全預期能達成該期限。

So that -- in terms of discussions about the uptake, again, there are comments that I made about Louisiana apply to that. But also at the same time, there has been public announcements by other people about their demand for green hydrogen in Europe? You saw that one of the largest oil companies in the world announced that they will need 500,000 tons of green hydrogen by 2030, just to put it in perspective, 500,000 tons is equivalent of 3x the capacity of NEOM.

所以——就需求承接（uptake）的討論而言，我先前對路易斯安那所做的評論同樣適用。但同時，也有其他人公開宣布他們在歐洲對綠氫的需求。你看到全球最大的石油公司之一宣布，到 2030 年他們將需要 50 萬噸綠氫；為了讓你有概念，50 萬噸相當於 NEOM 產能的 3 倍。

So there is going to be plenty of demand for that project but we will wait, as I said, in terms of our strategy to price that appropriately so that we can get appropriate return on that project.

因此，該專案的需求會非常充足；但如我所說，就我們的策略而言，我們會等待並以適當方式定價，以便能在該專案上取得合理的報酬。

That's a great overview. The other question I had was on the -- targeting greater than 10% internal rate of return. Does that suggest that there's -- this is an upgrade from your prior messaging of sort of an EBIT contribution of 10% of the project cost? And does this now include the benefit of IRA, I believe, before the comment was that you were not including the benefit of IRA?

這是很好的概述。我另一個問題是——你們目標是內部報酬率（IRR）高於 10%。這是否意味著——相較於你們先前傳達的訊息（例如專案成本約 10% 的 EBIT 貢獻），這算是一種上調？另外，這是否已包含 IRA 的效益？我記得先前你們的說法是不包含 IRA 的效益。

Well, it's a combination of all of that. We have always said that 10% IRA is the minimum. That really translates to what you said, $0.10 of operating profit on a dollar of investment. Those two go together. We do expect, and we have demonstrated that.

嗯，這是多種因素的組合。我們一直都說 10% 的 IRR 是最低門檻。這基本上就對應你所說的：每投入 1 美元資本，營業利益約 0.10 美元。這兩者是一致的。我們確實預期如此，而且也已經證明做得到。

Now that you have all of the detailed numbers, please take a look at the return we are getting on Jazan. And Jazan, it's a $12 billion project. And if you look carefully, you'll find out that in terms of IRR, the return on that is more than 15%. So we obviously, as I said, we price our products not based on just the return, the price is based on what the market bears. And -- but if it goes below 10%, we usually don't do the projects unless it is phenomenally strategic and we don't have that -- too many of those. So overall, the 10% IRR is our minimum. And we expect most of our projects to produce more than that.

現在你已經有所有詳細數字，請看看我們在 Jazan 專案上取得的報酬。Jazan 是一個 120 億美元的專案。如果你仔細看，你會發現就 IRR 而言，該專案的報酬率超過 15%。所以很明顯，如我所說，我們產品定價並不是只看報酬率；價格是依市場可承受程度而定。——但如果 IRR 低於 10%，我們通常不會做該專案，除非它具有極其重大的策略性，而那種案子並不多。總體而言，10% IRR 是我們的最低標準，我們預期大多數專案都會高於這個水準。

And the inclusion of benefit from IRA?

那 IRA 的效益是否納入？

Well, the IRA, it depends on which project and how much it affects that and all of that. But IRA obviously, we've had. But as you know, IRA was designed in such a way that we would be able to get a good return, but also price the product to encourage the customers to use that because it was an incentive for that. So it's going to help both sides.

嗯，IRA 要看是哪一個專案、以及它影響的程度等等。但 IRA 顯然我們一直都有。正如你所知，IRA 的設計方式是：一方面讓我們能取得良好報酬，另一方面也能把產品定價到足以鼓勵客戶使用，因為它本來就是一種激勵。因此它會同時幫助雙方。

We'll move next to Mike Sison from Wells Fargo.

接下來我們請 Wells Fargo 的 Mike Sison。

Nice quarter and outlook. I apologize. I just want to ask Louisiana again. Maybe I just don't understand. So I take the $7 billion and then your normal 10% of capital should be applied on the $7 billion? Or is that less than $7 billion?

本季表現和展望都很好。抱歉，我想再問一次路易斯安那的問題。也許是我沒理解。我把 70 億美元拿來看，然後你們一般的 10% 資本報酬應該是套用在這 70 億美元上嗎？還是其實少於 70 億美元？

Well, the rule of time thumb that we said you should expect once that plant is fully operational you should expect if we have financed that ourselves and the $7 billion is all -- our money, you should expand the $700 million uplift on the operating income of our products. But as I said, we might decide to project finance it, which, in that case, it will be in accordance with how much cash we put in there. But if it was all of our money you should expect $700 million.

嗯，我們所說的經驗法則是：一旦該工廠全面投產，如果是由我們自行出資融資、而且這 70 億美元全部都是——我們自己的資金，那你應該預期我們產品的營業利益會增加約 7 億美元。但如我所說，我們也可能決定採用專案融資（project finance），那樣的話就會依我們實際投入的現金金額而定。不過如果全部都是我們的錢，你就應該預期是 7 億美元。

Okay. And then given that the cost has gone up from $4.5 billion to $7 billion, is the pricing assumption on what you're going to sell has that changed? And does that 10% return change on a certain price that you need to get for the product?

了解。那麼，既然成本從 45 億美元上升到 70 億美元，你們對未來銷售價格的假設有改變嗎？而那 10% 的報酬是否會取決於你們需要為產品取得的某個價格？

Yes, we believe that -- but this is why our Board approved the project at $7 billion because they see that we expect that we will be able to sell the product at a price and at a premium to get that return. Look, it is not very difficult for the investors to take pen to pencil and just go through order of magnitude that plant to make it simple, assume it is making 3.5 million ton a year of blue ammonia.

是的，我們相信——這也是為什麼董事會以 70 億美元核准該專案，因為他們看到我們預期能以某個價格、並且以溢價出售產品，從而取得那樣的報酬。你看，投資人其實不難拿起筆算一下量級。為了簡化，假設該工廠每年生產 350 萬噸藍氨。

Assume a price for blue ammonia, you know where the price of gray is obviously, blue is going to be higher than that and then see what the revenue is. And then the cost, it is natural gas costs that you can calculate, it is operating cost that you can calculate, its electricity cost that you can calculate very easily. And then by the time you get done with the math, you'll find out that, that plant has -- at a reasonable price for blue ammonia, it can easily make more than $1.4 billion, $1.5 billion of EBITDA.

再假設一個藍氨價格；你知道灰氨的價格大概在哪裡，而藍氨顯然會高於灰氨，然後看看營收是多少。至於成本，天然氣成本你可以算，營運成本你可以算，用電成本你也很容易算。等你把數學算完，你會發現，在一個合理的藍氨價格下，那座工廠很容易就能創造超過 14 億到 15 億美元的 EBITDA。

So then that or $7 billion becomes a decent return project. So it is not difficult to actually do the calculation. Right now, you know where the price of gray ammonia is. But it is not very difficult to convince yourself that, that project is a very, very good project. The important thing for Air Products is to execute the project and bring the project, get the permit for the classic, well, do the sequestration, those are -- the execution is the challenge for us, but I think the rest of it will work out very nicely.

因此，70 億美元的投資就會成為一個報酬不錯的專案。這個計算其實不難。你現在也知道灰氨的價格在哪裡。但要說服自己這個專案非常、非常好並不困難。對 Air Products 來說，關鍵在於把專案執行好並把它落地，取得許可，還有封存——嗯，進行封存（sequestration）等；執行才是我們的挑戰，但我認為其他部分都會進展得非常順利。

Kevin McCarthy from Vertical Research Partners.

Vertical Research Partners 的 Kevin McCarthy。

Seifi, about 3 weeks ago, the U.S. government announced its intention to establish 7 regional hydrogen hubs at a cost of $7 billion to be funded by the Bipartisan infrastructure law. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that program. I believe you're involved with the so-called [Archer's] project or hub in California.

Seifi，大約 3 週前，美國政府宣布打算建立 7 個區域氫能樞紐（hydrogen hubs），總成本 70 億美元，資金將由《兩黨基礎建設法》提供。我想聽聽你對這個計畫的看法。我相信你們有參與加州所謂的 [Archer's] 專案或樞紐。

On the one hand, I suppose this accelerate some market development. On the other hand, there are many dozens of partners in these hubs, some of which might be customers, others might be existing competitors or possibly future competitors. So maybe you can put that into context for us in terms of your involvement and how you see that market developing?

一方面，我想這會加速一些市場發展。另一方面，這些樞紐裡有數十個合作夥伴，其中一些可能是客戶，另一些可能是既有競爭者或未來競爭者。所以你能否就你們的參與情況，以及你們如何看待市場發展，幫我們做個脈絡說明？

For that particular project, which is part of the infrastructure project, we have never really emphasized that too much because that in terms of helping what we are doing is not comparable to the IRA. It is $7 billion spread over a lot of different projects. By the time it gets to any one-off individual company and so on, the amount is not that much to move in either.

就那個特定專案而言，它是基礎建設計畫的一部分。我們其實從未特別強調，因為就協助我們正在做的事情而言，它的效果無法與 IRA 相提並論。這 70 億美元分散在很多不同專案上；等分配到任何一家單一公司時，金額其實不大，對我們的影響也不會太大。

We obviously welcome any kind of investment to promote the use of hydrogen. That is a positive thing. But in terms of any kind of a material -- we are part of the Archer's, I mean, they have an NDA, we cannot talk about it that much. But fundamentally, that contribution from that infrastructure bill, as you said, $7 billion divided by all of these projects is not going to move the needle for us in terms of what we were or we were not going to do that. We have never counted that as being anything significant.

我們當然歡迎任何促進氫能使用的投資，這是正面的事情。但就任何實質性影響而言——我們是 Archer's 的一部分，我是說，他們有 NDA，我們不能談太多。不過從根本上說，正如你所說，這筆基礎建設法案的貢獻是 70 億美元分散到所有這些專案，對我們而言並不會改變我們原本要做或不做的事情。我們從未把它視為任何重大的因素。

That is not comparable anything like the IRA because with the IRA, it becomes very meaningful when you start. We are sequestering in Louisiana, 5 million ton of CO2 at $80, that's $400 million a year of contribution. Obviously, it costs some money to sequester this [year too]. But as I said, the numbers are not comparable. So on the infrastructure bill, we have always said it's a good thing. It obviously is a good thing, it's better than nothing, but it's not something that will make any material difference to what we are doing or not doing.

這完全無法與 IRA 相比，因為在 IRA 之下，當你開始做時就會變得非常有意義。我們在路易斯安那封存 500 萬噸 CO2，以每噸 80 美元計算，那就是每年 4 億美元的貢獻。當然，封存也需要一些成本（[year too]）。但如我所說，這些數字無法相比。所以對於基礎建設法案，我們一直都說這是好事。它顯然是好事，總比沒有好，但它不會對我們正在做或不做的事情造成任何實質差異。

Okay. And then secondly, if I may, would you comment on your outlook for the corporate and other line. It came down quite a bit in the fiscal fourth quarter, and you've been active on LNG. So maybe you can comment on the forward profile for LNG as well as the controllable expenses flowing through that line in 2024.

好的。其次，如果可以的話，能否請您談談對公司及其他項目的展望。該項目在財政第四季下降了不少，而你們在 LNG 方面也相當積極。因此也請談談 LNG 的前瞻走勢，以及 2024 年流經該項目的可控費用。

Sure. I have made this statement in the last quarter, and I'd like to reiterate that, that we do have programs in order to control our corporate cost. We had a significant amount of corporate costs in 2023 because we were pursuing a lot of projects and starting up a lot of projects, those things do cost money, we don't expect that the amount will be as much in 2024.

當然。我在上一季已經提過這點，我想再次重申：我們確實有一些計畫來控制公司的成本。2023 年我們的公司成本相當可觀，因為我們在推進許多專案並啟動許多專案，這些事情確實需要花錢；我們預期 2024 年的金額不會像 2023 年那麼高。

In addition, the fact that our LNG business and so on and the other businesses are doing well, will help on that. So we do expect a reduction of that corporate cost in 2024 versus 2023, quite a significant amount.

此外，我們的 LNG 業務以及其他業務表現良好，也會對此有所幫助。因此，我們確實預期 2024 年相較 2023 年公司的成本會下降，而且幅度相當顯著。

Moving on to Stephen Byrne from Bank of America.

接下來請美國銀行的 Stephen Byrne 提問。

Was the strength in hydrogen demand during the quarter in the Americas, specifically in your U.S. Gulf Coast pipeline? And if so, what fraction of those pipeline customers are you in dialogue with about switching them from gray to blue? And if the demand outlook in that region for Blue hydrogen is so robust, are you -- might you potentially consider reducing the design and scope of the Louisiana project and drop the ammonia piece of it, which would include the offshore port and so forth in addition to an ammonia reactor?

本季氫氣需求的強勁是否來自美洲地區，特別是你們美國墨西哥灣沿岸的管線？如果是的話，你們與其中多少比例的管線客戶正在洽談，將他們從灰氫轉為藍氫？另外，如果該地區對藍氫的需求展望如此強勁，你們是否——是否可能考慮縮減路易斯安那專案的設計與範圍，並取消其中的氨部分（包括離岸港口等，以及一座氨反應器）？

You are asking a very, very good question. I do not expect that we would get to the stage that we would drop the ammonia part because there will be a robust demand for blue ammonia. But you are very right, the demand for blue hydrogen is growing in that part of the world. We are engaged with all of the customers and the interesting thing is that if we ever expand the project, that is where we can focus more on what you said that maybe produce more blue hydrogen than trying to produce more ammonia.

你問了一個非常、非常好的問題。我不預期我們會走到要取消氨的部分，因為藍氨將會有強勁的需求。不過你說得很對，世界那個區域對藍氫的需求正在成長。我們正與所有客戶接洽；有趣的是，如果我們未來擴大該專案，我們可以更聚焦在你所說的方向——也就是可能生產更多藍氫，而不是試圖生產更多氨。

So overall, the story is very positive, as you said, and the fact that Air Products has a 700-mile hydrogen pipeline in that part of the world gives us significant advantage in being able to optimize this. But that is a very good position to be. And I think you're pointing out a very good point.

總體而言，正如你所說，這個故事非常正面；而且 Air Products 在該地區擁有一條 700 英里的氫氣管線，讓我們在最佳化配置方面具備顯著優勢。這是一個非常好的位置，而我認為你指出了一個很好的觀點。

And then one follow-on with respect to the Netherlands blue hydrogen project, I believe Air Liquide is also involved in our project with Porthos. And my question for you is, as Netherlands is moving in this direction of blue hydrogen, do you see potential that the rest of Europe might relax its preference for green and embrace blue more?

另外再追問一題，關於荷蘭的藍氫專案：我相信 Air Liquide 也參與了我們與 Porthos 的專案。我的問題是，隨著荷蘭朝藍氫方向推進，你是否認為歐洲其他地區可能會放寬對綠氫的偏好，並更接受藍氫？

Right now, the blue hydrogen project in Netherlands is very practical because you do have these steam methane reformer there, and it's very efficient to capture the CO2 from there produce blue hydrogen, it's better than the gray hydrogen. But I do not think that, that signals that the fundamental demand for new applications in Europe, especially for mobility and for some of the refineries will go to blue.

目前荷蘭的藍氫專案非常務實，因為那裡有蒸汽甲烷重整（SMR）裝置，從那裡捕捉 CO2 來生產藍氫非常有效率，且優於灰氫。但我不認為這代表歐洲對新應用的基本需求——特別是在移動領域以及部分煉油廠——會轉向藍氫。

I think green hydrogen will still be -- will end up being a preference for Europe, as you have seen in the announcement of some of the major possible users. So I think it will be a combination of the two.

我認為綠氫仍然會——最終仍會是歐洲的偏好，正如你在一些主要潛在用戶的公告中所看到的。因此我認為會是兩者的組合。

(Operator Instructions) We'll hear next from Josh Spector from UBS.

（接線員指示）接下來我們聽取 UBS 的 Josh Spector 提問。

It's Chris Perrella on for Josh. A follow-up on, I guess, the volume outlook for this coming year with volumes in Asia down and some of the one-off deals that we did in 2023 rolling off, what are the volume assumptions underpinning your guidance for this coming year?

我是代 Josh 的 Chris Perrella。我想追問一下，關於明年即將到來的量的展望：在亞洲的量下滑、以及我們在 2023 年做的一些一次性交易到期退出的情況下，你們對明年指引所依據的量的假設是什麼？

Well, on that point, the way we have looked at this thing and -- it's very difficult to obviously predict the future. But overall, the way we have looked at this thing that you know that our business is very much related to -- not to GDP but to industrial production. So the way we have kind of budgeted ourselves is that industrial production in the U.S. will be positive. And not double digit or anything like that.

嗯，關於這點，我們看待這件事的方式是——當然要預測未來非常困難。但整體而言，我們的業務與——不是與 GDP，而是與工業生產高度相關。因此我們在編列預算時的假設是：美國的工業生產將為正成長，但不會是雙位數之類的。

Last year, it was about 2.5%, something like that, maybe a little bit less than that. So positive in the U.S., flat in Europe, and down in Asia. That's the very much overall economic condition under which we have produced the guidance for next year.

去年大約是 2.5% 左右，可能略低一些。所以我們假設美國為正成長、歐洲持平、亞洲下滑。這就是我們在這樣的整體經濟情境下，所制定明年指引的基礎。

All right. And one quick follow-up on the Rotterdam project. How should we think about the capital spend? And will -- with Porthos taking the CO2 from you, what's the cost involved in having them essentially dispose of it?

了解。再快速追問一下鹿特丹專案：我們應該如何看待資本支出？另外——由 Porthos 從你們那裡接收 CO2 的情況下，讓他們實質上處置 CO2 的成本是多少？

Well, they are going to charge us certain dollars per ton for disposing the CO2, which we will obviously pass through to their -- to our customer. We wouldn't be paying for that. And then we obviously -- we have a charge for our capital, and then there is a charge for the sequestration. And I don't think we are at liberty to quote the number that Porthos is going to charge us but at some point in time, they might decide to make that public.

嗯，他們會就 CO2 的處置向我們按每噸收取一定的費用，而我們顯然會把這部分轉嫁給——轉嫁給我們的客戶。我們不會自行吸收這筆費用。然後我們當然——會對我們的資本收取費用，另外還有封存的費用。我想我們沒有權利報出 Porthos 將向我們收取的數字，但在某個時間點，他們可能會決定對外公開。

But the Dutch government is providing incentives for the CO2 sequestration.

不過荷蘭政府正在為 CO2 封存提供誘因。

But Dr. Serhan is adding that the Dutch government is also contributing on the cost for the sequestration.

Serhan 博士補充說，荷蘭政府也在封存成本方面提供補助。

All right. Is there a capital -- a rough capital number for this -- for the carbon capture?

了解。那麼針對這個——碳捕捉部分，有沒有一個大致的資本金額？

We haven't disclosed that. We are not allowed to disclose that. But as I said, it is more than $100 million and less than $1 billion. So somewhere in between. Sorry about that. We are not allowed to disclose the number.

我們尚未揭露，而且我們也不被允許揭露。但如我所說，它高於 1 億美元、低於 10 億美元，所以介於兩者之間。很抱歉，我們不被允許公布該數字。

Okay. With that, I think we have significantly gone over time. Is there anybody else in the queue, operator?

好的。那麼，我想我們已經明顯超時了。接線員，佇列中還有其他人嗎？

At this time, there are no additional callers in the queue.

目前佇列中沒有其他來電者。

Okay. Well, with that, I would like to thank everybody for being on our call today. We appreciate your interest in Air Products, and we look forward to discussing our results with you again next quarter. Stay safe, stay healthy and all the best, and have a great day.

好的。那麼，我想感謝各位今天參與我們的電話會議。我們感謝各位對 Air Products 的關注，也期待在下個季度再次與各位討論我們的業績。請注意安全、保持健康，祝一切順利，祝各位有美好的一天。

That does conclude today's teleconference. We thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。您現在可以掛線。