Ampco-Pittsburgh Corp (AP) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning everyone, and welcome to the Ampco-Pittsburgh Corporation fourth-quarter 2024 earnings results conference call. (Operator Instructions) There's also note, today's event is being recorded.

大家早安，歡迎參加 Ampco-Pittsburgh Corporation 2024 年第四季收益業績電話會議。（操作員指示）另請注意，今天的活動正在被記錄。

At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to Kim Knox, Corporate Secretary. Please go ahead.

現在，我想把發言權交給公司秘書金諾克斯 (Kim Knox)。請繼續。

Thank you Jamie, and good morning to everyone joining us on today's fourth-quarter 2024 conference call. Joining me today are Brett McBrayer, our Chief Executive Officer; and Mike McCauley, Senior Vice President, Chief Financial Officer, and Treasurer. Also joining us on the call today are Sam Lyon, President of Union Electric Steel Corporation; and Dave Anderson, President of Air and Liquid Systems Corporation.

謝謝傑米，大家早安，參加今天的 2024 年第四季電話會議。今天與我一起出席的還有我們的執行長 Brett McBrayer；以及資深副總裁、財務長兼財務主管 Mike McCauley。今天參加電話會議的還有聯合電工鋼鐵公司總裁 Sam Lyon；以及空氣和液體系統公司總裁戴夫安德森 (Dave Anderson)。

Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that participants on this call may make statements or comments that are forward-looking and may include financial projections or other statements of the corporation's plans, objectives, expectations, or intentions.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議的參與者可能會做出前瞻性的陳述或評論，其中可能包括財務預測或公司計劃、目標、期望或意圖的其他陳述。

These matters involve certain risks and uncertainties, many of which are outside the corporation's control. The corporation's actual results may differ significantly from those projected or suggested in any forward-looking statements due to various risk factors, including those discussed in the corporation's Q4 2024 earnings press release, the most recently filed for 10-K, and in subsequent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

這些事項涉及一定的風險和不確定性，其中許多超出了公司的控制範圍。由於各種風險因素，包括公司 2024 年第四季度收益新聞稿、最近提交的 10-K 報告以及隨後向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論的風險因素，公司的實際結果可能與任何前瞻性陳述中預測或建議的結果存在重大差異。

We do not undertake any obligation to update or otherwise release publicly any revision to our forward-looking statements. A replay of this call will be posted on our website later today. To access the earnings release or the webcast replay, please consult the investors section of our website at ampcopgh.com.

我們不承擔更新或以其他方式公開發布我們前瞻性陳述的任何修訂的義務。這次通話的重播將於今天稍晚發佈在我們的網站上。若要查看收益報告或網路直播重播，請造訪我們網站 ampcopgh.com 的投資者部分。

With that, I would like to turn the call over to Brett McBrayer, Ampco-Pittsburgh CEO. Brett?

接下來，我想將電話轉給 Ampco-Pittsburgh 執行長 Brett McBrayer。布雷特？

Thank You. Thank you, Kim. Good morning, and thank you for joining our call. As reported in our most recent press release, Ampco-Pittsburgh Corporation reported earnings per common share of $0.16 for the fourth quarter of 2024, and $0.02 for the full year. Our net cash flow from operating activities was $7.5 million for the fourth quarter and $18 million for 2024.

謝謝。謝謝你，金。早安，感謝您參加我們的電話會議。正如我們最近的新聞稿中所報導的，Ampco-Pittsburgh Corporation 報告 2024 年第四季每股普通股收益為 0.16 美元，全年每股普通股收益為 0.02 美元。我們第四季的營運活動淨現金流為 750 萬美元，2024 年為 1,800 萬美元。

Income from operations for 2024 was $12.2 million, which includes a $4.1 million non-cash asbestos-related benefit. On a non-GAAP basis, we achieved adjusted income from operations of $8 million for the full year. These results reflect a $3.7 million improvement from the prior year with lower revenues in 2024.

2024 年營業收入為 1,220 萬美元，其中包括 410 萬美元的非現金石棉相關福利。依照非公認會計準則，我們全年實現調整後營業收入 800 萬美元。這些結果反映出與前一年相比收入增加了 370 萬美元，但 2024 年的收入有所下降。

With the air and liquid processing segment, we achieved record sales for 2024, improving 11% from the prior year, and we also had a great fourth quarter. Our forged and cast engineer product segment achieved income from operations of $1.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2024 and $10.5 million for the full year.

在空氣和液體處理部門，我們實現了 2024 年創紀錄的銷售額，比前一年增長了 11%，我們的第四季度也表現出色。我們的鍛造和鑄造工程產品部門在 2024 年第四季實現了 110 萬美元的營業收入，全年實現了 1,050 萬美元的營業收入。

These results reflect a 38% improvement from 2023 despite lower sales. It is important to note that 2024 only reflects a partial year benefit from our newly installed equipment in our US forged operations. Additionally, we've entered into a formal collective consultation process with our workforce in the UK.

儘管銷售額有所下降，但這些結果反映出與 2023 年相比成長了 38%。值得注意的是，2024 年僅反映了我們在美國鍛造業務中新安裝的設備帶來的部分年度收益。此外，我們已經與英國員工進入了正式的集體協商程序。

This location is weighed negatively on our results for several years. Addressing this deficiency would possibly impact annual operating income by at least $5 million annually.

這個位置對我們的業績有幾年的負面影響。解決這項缺陷可能會每年影響至少 500 萬美元的年度營業收入。

For further details regarding our segment performance, I'll now turn the call over to David Anderson, President of Air and Liquid Systems.

有關我們部門表現的更多詳細信息，我現在將電話轉給空氣和液體系統總裁戴維·安德森。

Thank you, Brett. Good morning. Air & Liquids Q4 was not only the best quarter in 2024, it was also one of Air & Liquids best quarters in our history. Q4 revenue increased 6.5% versus prior year, while year-to-date revenue increased 11% versus prior year. The Q4 increase was driven by increased shipments of centrifugal pumps.

謝謝你，布雷特。早安.Air & Liquids 第四季不僅是 2024 年最好的季度，也是 Air & Liquids 歷史上最好的季度之一。第四季營收較上年同期成長 6.5%，年初至今營收較上年同期成長 11%。第四季的成長是由於離心泵出貨量的增加。

Year-to-date revenue increased in all product categories compared to prior year. Operating income in Q4 was $7.6 million versus a loss of $38.5 million in the prior quarter -- prior year. Eliminating asbestos-related credits and charges, Q4 operating income would be $3.5 million versus $2.5 million in the prior year. The Q4 improvement was driven by higher revenue, positive product mix and improved efficiencies. Year-to-date operating income was $15.9 million versus a loss of $29.1 million prior year.

與去年同期相比，今年迄今所有產品類別的收入均有所增加。第四季營業收入為 760 萬美元，而去年同期的虧損為 3,850 萬美元。消除與石棉相關的信貸和費用，第四季的營業收入將為 350 萬美元，而去年同期為 250 萬美元。第四季業績的成長得益於收入的增加、積極的產品組合和效率的提高。年初至今的營業收入為 1,590 萬美元，而去年同期的虧損為 2,910 萬美元。

The major variance versus prior year was the asbestos credit versus the prior year charge, which improved by $44.9 million year on year. Looking at 2024 by quarter shows that Q1 was Air & Liquids weakest quarter, and we continually improved as the year progressed, culminating in Air & Liquids best quarter in Q4.

與去年相比，最大的差異是石棉抵免額與上年費用相比有所增加，比去年同期增加了 4,490 萬美元。按季度來看 2024 年，第一季是空氣和液體業務最弱的季度，隨著時間的推移，我們不斷改進，最終在第四季度達到空氣和液體業務最好的季度。

As I mentioned on the last earnings call, Air & Liquid was approved by the US Navy to receive $4 million of additional funding to purchase more equipment for our Buffalo facility. This is in addition to the $1.6 million in equipment that we installed in Q3 of 2024. This funding will be used to further modernize the equipment in our Buffalo facility.

正如我在上次財報電話會議上提到的，美國海軍批准 Air & Liquid 獲得 400 萬美元的額外資金，用於為我們的布法羅工廠購買更多設備。這是我們在 2024 年第三季安裝的價值 160 萬美元的設備之外的額外支出。這筆資金將用於進一步現代化我們布法羅工廠的設備。

The equipment is now on order and is expected to arrive in late 2025. The US Navy continues to move forward with long-term plans to expand the size of the Navy fleet. The modernization of our plant will allow us to meet this increasing demand. We continue to see positive activity in the nuclear market for our heat exchanger product line, including the announcements to reopen two decommissioned US nuclear plants and the ongoing development of the small modular reactors.

該設備目前已訂購，預計將於 2025 年底抵達。美國海軍繼續推動擴大海軍艦隊規模的長期計畫。我們工廠的現代化將使我們能夠滿足日益增長的需求。我們繼續看到核能市場對我們熱交換器產品線的積極活動，包括宣布重新開放兩座已退役的美國核電站以及正在進行的小型模組化反應器的開發。

From record orders received in the pharmaceutical market for air handling equipment to the increasing activity in both the nuclear and military markets, demand for our custom engineered products continues to be very strong. Three years ago, we began to execute our new plans to turn Air & Liquid into a growth-oriented business. As we ended our third year of this plan, I wanted to provide a comparison versus three years ago.

從製藥市場收到的空氣處理設備創紀錄的訂單到核能和軍事市場日益增長的活動，對我們客製化工程產品的需求持續強勁。三年前，我們開始實施新計劃，將空氣和液體轉變為以成長為導向的企業。在我們結束該計劃的第三年之際，我想與三年前做一個比較。

For 2024, revenue was 56% higher than three years ago. Our year-end backlog was 77% higher than three years ago, and our operating income, excluding asbestos-related items, was 39% higher than three years ago.

預計 2024 年的收入將比三年前高出 56%。我們的年終積壓訂單比三年前高出 77%，不包括石棉相關項目在內的營業收入比三年前高出 39%。

Operating income, excluding asbestos items, has been a record high for the last two years, and we set new revenue records in both 2023 and 2024. Air & Liquid is now a growth-oriented business, and there are many long-term opportunities for that growth to continue in the future.

不包括石棉專案的營業收入在過去兩年中創下了歷史新高，並且我們在 2023 年和 2024 年都創下了新的收入記錄。Air & Liquid 現在是一家以成長為導向的企業，未來有許多長期成長機會。

Thank you, David. Sam Lyon, President of Forged and Cast Engineered Products segment, will now share more details regarding his group's performance. Sam?

謝謝你，大衛。鍛造和鑄造工程產品部門總裁 Sam Lyon 現在將分享有關其集團業績的更多細節。山姆？

Thank you, Brett, and good morning. For the fourth quarter of 2024, the Forged and Cast Engineered Products segment reported total net sales of $66.5 million compared to $75.8 million in Q4 of 2023. Segment operating income improved to $1.1 million in the fourth quarter, up from breakeven in the prior year period, primarily driven by improved profitability in our Forged product lines. Weaker volumes in the Western cast plants mostly offset the increase in our forged product line profitability.

謝謝你，布雷特，早安。2024 年第四季度，鍛造和鑄造工程產品部門報告的總淨銷售額為 6,650 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為 7,580 萬美元。第四季度，分部營業收入從去年同期的損益兩平點增至 110 萬美元，主要得益於鍛造產品線獲利能力的提升。西方鑄造廠產量下降基本上抵消了我們鍛造產品線獲利能力的成長。

As a result of these continuing pressures on the [cast] side of the business, specifically underutilization due to market overcapacity, high energy costs and increased pressure from low-priced imports, we have initiated a formal collective consultation process with the employees at our UK plant.

由於業務方面持續面臨壓力，特別是由於市場產能過剩導致的利用率不足、能源成本高以及低價進口壓力增加，我們已經與英國工廠的員工啟動了正式的集體協商程序。

As Brett mentioned, we've experienced losses of over $5 million in the UK in the prior two years and do not see much improvement as we look forward. We expect this collective consultation process to yield a clear path forward within the next six to eight weeks, significantly stemming the losses currently experienced at that location.

正如布雷特所提到的，我們在過去兩年在英國遭受了超過 500 萬美元的損失，而且展望未來，情況不會有太大改善。我們預計，這個集體協商過程將在未來六到八週內找到明確的前進方向，從而顯著遏制該地點目前遭受的損失。

Full-year 2024 operating income for the Forged and Cast Engineered Products segment reached $10.5 million compared to $7.6 million in 2023, reflecting significant year-over-year improvement driven by strong operational performance and strategic pricing initiatives.

鍛造和鑄造工程產品部門 2024 年全年營業收入達到 1,050 萬美元，而 2023 年為 760 萬美元，這反映出強勁的營運業績和策略定價舉措推動的同比顯著增長。

Turning briefly to broader market conditions. Our two largest markets for rolls, North America and Europe remained stable. Europe continues to experience market softness, although we are seeing some positive signs in hot mill activities.

簡單介紹一下更廣泛的市場狀況。我們最大的兩個卷材市場—北美和歐洲保持穩定。儘管我們看到熱軋廠活動的一些積極跡象，但歐洲市場仍然持續疲軟。

We closely monitor the evolving tariff situation, anticipating minimal direct impact but potential indirect effects through changing demand dynamics involving customers in Canada and Mexico. Overall, if the tariffs are implemented, we expect increased demand in the US, slightly offset by lower demand in Mexico and stable demand in Europe for our roll business.

我們密切關注不斷變化的關稅情況，預計直接影響很小，但可能透過改變加拿大和墨西哥客戶的需求動態產生間接影響。總體而言，如果實施關稅，我們預計美國的需求將增加，但墨西哥的需求下降和歐洲對我們卷材業務的需求穩定將略微抵消這一影響。

For our FEP business, we expect increased demand as many of our largest competitors are outside the US. We are already seeing an improved order book for our FEP products in anticipation of the tariffs. General market sentiment in North America is generally bullish for 2025 with some of our major customers expecting improved volumes, which will ultimately result in higher future roll demand.

對於我們的 FEP 業務，我們預計需求會增加，因為我們的許多最大競爭對手都在美國以外。由於預期關稅，我們已經看到 FEP 產品的訂單有所增加。北美的整體市場情緒對 2025 年總體看好，我們的一些主要客戶預計銷量將有所提高，最終將導致未來卷材需求增加。

In summary, our strategic initiatives continue to position us well for continued profitability and sustainable long-term performance improvement.

總而言之，我們的策略性舉措持續為我們持續獲利和可持續的長期業績改善奠定良好基礎。

I will turn the call back over to Brett.

我會把電話轉回給布雷特。

Thanks, Sam. I will now turn the call over to Mike McAuley, our Chief Financial Officer, for more details regarding our financial performance for the quarter and year. Mike?

謝謝，山姆。現在，我將把電話轉給我們的財務長 Mike McAuley，以了解有關本季度和年度財務業績的更多詳細資訊。麥克風？

Thank you, Brett. Ampco expects to issue its 2024 Form 10-K early next week on or around March 17. You will find more details there very soon. As indicated in our press release issued last night on the quarter and full-year, Ampco's consolidated net sales for the fourth quarter of 2024 were $100.9 million, a decline of 6.6% compared to net sales for the fourth quarter of 2023 due primarily to lower shipment volumes of mill rolls, which could not be offset by the higher shipments in the Air & Liquid Processing segment.

謝謝你，布雷特。Ampco 預計將於下週初（3 月 17 日左右）發布其 2024 年 10-K 表格。您很快就會在那裡找到更多詳細資訊。正如我們昨晚發布的有關本季和全年的新聞稿所示，Ampco 2024 年第四季的綜合淨銷售額為 1.009 億美元，與 2023 年第四季的淨銷售額相比下降 6.6%，主要原因是軋輥的出貨量下降，但無法透過空氣和液體處理部門的出貨量增加來抵消。

For full-year 2024, consolidated net sales declined 1% as record Air & Liquid Processing segment sales and higher net pricing in the Forged and Cast Engineered Processing segment nearly offset the decline in mill roll and Forged Engineered Products sales due to weaker market conditions.

2024 年全年，合併淨銷售額下降 1%，因為空氣和液體處理部門的銷售額創歷史新高，鍛造和鑄造工程加工部門的淨價格上漲，幾乎抵消了由於市場條件疲軟導致的軋輥和鍛造工程產品銷售額的下降。

Non-GAAP adjusted income from operations of $1 million and $8 million for the 3 and 12 months ended December 31, 2024, respectively, improved from the prior year periods despite the lower mill roll demand. This was due to higher roll pricing net of cost changes, which moved surcharges down as well as improved operational efficiencies and better manufacturing cost absorption.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 3 個月和 12 個月的非 GAAP 調整後營業收入分別為 100 萬美元和 800 萬美元，儘管軋輥需求較低，但仍比去年同期有所改善。這是由於扣除成本變化後的捲材定價上漲，從而降低了附加費，提高了營運效率並更好地吸收了製造成本。

In terms of GAAP reported results, there were some unusual items affecting comparability, and I'd like to review those now. First, at the end of 2024, we completed an updated revaluation of our long-term asbestos-related liabilities and insurance receivables.

就 GAAP 報告的結果而言，有一些不尋常的項目影響了可比性，現在我想回顧一下這些項目。首先，在 2024 年底，我們完成了長期石棉相關負債和保險應收款的最新重估。

The net result of this was a credit recorded in Q4 2024 of $4.1 million, part of which related to lower projected indemnity liability, but most of which related to lower projected defense costs. Both effects are net of associated changes in the asbestos insurance receivables.

其最終結果是 2024 年第四季記錄了 410 萬美元的信用額，其中一部分與預計賠償責任降低有關，但大部分與預計辯護成本降低有關。這兩種影響都是扣除石棉保險應收款的相關變化後的淨值。

This compares to a net charge of $40.9 million for asbestos-related revaluation of indemnity and defense estimates in Q4 of 2023, again, net of associated asbestos insurance. Another significant item affecting comparability is that in the 12-month period ended December 31, 2023, we received and recorded $1.9 million for a reimbursement of past energy costs from the local government of one of our foreign subsidiaries.

相較之下，2023 年第四季與石棉相關的賠償和辯護估算重估的淨費用為 4,090 萬美元，同樣扣除了相關的石棉保險。影響可比性的另一個重要項目是，在截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日的 12 個月期間，我們從外國子公司的當地政府收到並記錄了 190 萬美元的過去能源成本補償。

Corporation's total selling and administrative expenses increased for 2024 compared to 2023, primarily due to higher employee-related expense, higher sales commissions expense in Air & Liquid Processing and due to higher professional fees in corporate.

2024 年，公司的總銷售和管理費用與 2023 年相比有所增加，主要原因是員工相關費用增加、空氣和液體處理業務的銷售佣金費用增加以及公司專業費用增加。

Depreciation and amortization expense rose primarily due to the completion of the US forged business' capital equipment modernization program. Interest expense for the 3 and 12 months ended December 31, 2024, increased in comparison to the same periods of the prior year, primarily due to higher equipment financing debt balance, higher average revolving credit facility borrowings and higher average interest rates. But it should be noted, however, that the corporation's total debt balance of $128.6 million at December 31, 2024, was flat with prior year.

折舊和攤銷費用的上升主要是由於美國鍛造業務資本設備現代化計劃的完成。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 3 個月和 12 個月的利息支出與去年同期相比有所增加，主要原因是設備融資債務餘額增加、平均循環信貸額度借款增加以及平均利率增加。但值得注意的是，截至2024年12月31日，該公司的總負債餘額為1.286億美元，與前一年持平。

Other income net for Q4 versus prior year increased primarily due to favorable changes in foreign exchange, but was about flat for the full year. The income tax provision was higher for the 3 and 12 months ended December 31, 2024, primarily due to the establishment of a valuation allowance on the net deferred tax assets of our UK operations at December 31, 2023, given its three-year cumulative loss history due to continued soft cast roll demand. As a result, the income tax provision in 2024 does not include any income tax benefit on the operating losses of the UK.

第四季度其他淨收入較上年同期有所增加，主要由於外匯的有利變化，但全年基本持平。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 3 個月和 12 個月的所得稅準備金較高，主要是因為考慮到持續的軟鑄卷需求導致的三年累計虧損歷史，我們在 2023 年 12 月 31 日對我們英國業務的淨遞延稅項資產設立了估值準備金。因此，2024 年的所得稅規定不包括英國經營虧損的任何所得稅優惠。

It's also noteworthy that the income tax provision for the 3 and 12 months ended December 31, 2023, included an approximate $1.3 million benefit associated with the charge for asbestos-related costs last year. Net income attributable to Ampco-Pittsburgh for the 3 and 12 months ended December 31, 2024, was $3.1 million or $0.16 per common share and $0.04 -- I'm sorry, and $0.4 million or $0.02 per common share, respectively for the fourth quarter.

另外值得注意的是，截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日的 3 個月和 12 個月的所得稅準備金包括去年與石棉相關費用收費相關的約 130 萬美元的收益。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 3 個月和 12 個月，Ampco-Pittsburgh 的淨收入分別為 310 萬美元或每股 0.16 美元和 0.04 美元——對不起，是 0.40 萬美元或每股 0.02 美元。

Both Q4 and full year include an after-tax impact of the credit for asbestos-related costs of $0.20 per share. This compares to net loss attributable to Ampco-Pittsburgh of $41.8 million or $2.12 per share and $39.9 million or $2.04 per share, respectively, which include approximately $2 per share and $2.02 per share, respectively, for the after-tax impact of the charge for asbestos-related costs.

第四季和全年均包括每股 0.20 美元的石棉相關成本稅後影響。相較之下，Ampco-Pittsburgh 的淨虧損分別為 4,180 萬美元或每股 2.12 美元和 3,990 萬美元或每股 2.04 美元，其中包括因石棉相關成本費用而產生的稅後影響，每股約 2 美元，每股約 2.02 美元。

Please note that in addition, full-year 2023 EPS benefited by approximately $0.10 per share for the foreign energy credit. Total backlog at December 31, 2024, of $378.9 million was flat with December 31, 2023. Net cash flows provided by operating activities was $18 million for full-year 2024, which compares to a use of $3.7 million for full-year 2023.

請注意，此外，2023 年全年每股收益將因外國能源信貸而受益約 0.10 美元。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的總積壓訂單為 3.789 億美元，與 2023 年 12 月 31 日持平。2024 年全年經營活動提供的淨現金流為 1,800 萬美元，而 2023 年全年的淨現金流為 370 萬美元。

The primary change factor was a reduction in trade working capital, which was a use in 2023, but a source in 2024. In addition, we had lower outflows for asbestos litigation in 2024, and customer deposits rose in 2024 compared to 2023.

主要變化因素是貿易營運資本的減少，這在 2023 年是一種用途，但在 2024 年卻是一種來源。此外，2024 年我們的石棉訴訟資金流出量較低，2024 年客戶存款較 2023 年增加。

Capital expenditures for full-year '24 ended at $12.2 million and includes final capitalization of the US Forged plant modernization CapEx from earlier in the year. However, this does not reflect government grant funding received during 2024 of $3.3 million, which was and will be used to fund CapEx machinery in Air & Liquid processing.

24 年全年資本支出為 1,220 萬美元，其中包括今年稍早美國鍛造工廠現代化資本支出的最終資本化。然而，這並不反映 2024 年收到的 330 萬美元的政府補助資金，這筆資金過去和現在都將用於資助空氣和液體處理的資本支出機械。

So netting the two brings the number down closer to what we had been guiding on previous calls for 2024 full-year CapEx net of that grant funding. At December 31, 2024, the corporation's liquidity position included cash on hand of $15.4 million and undrawn availability on our revolving credit facility of $20.6 million.

因此，將兩者相加，這個數字就更接近我們先前預測的 2024 年全年資本支出扣除該筆贈款資金後的淨額。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，該公司的流動資金狀況包括現金 1,540 萬美元和未提取的循環信貸額度 2,060 萬美元。

Operator, at this time, we would now like to open the line for questions.

接線員，現在我們想開通熱線來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

John Bair, Ascend Wealth Advisors.

約翰貝爾 (John Bair)，Ascend Wealth Advisors。

Thank you, for taking my question. A couple actually. Referring to the UK situation, can you clarify what -- kind of what your game plan is there? Are you just looking to reduce the workforce or operations in general? Or are you considering exiting that operation?

謝謝您回答我的問題。實際上是一對。參考英國的情況，能否澄清一下您的計劃是什麼？您是否只是想減少勞動力或整體營運？還是您正在考慮退出該行動？

And secondly, given what we're hearing about European spending perhaps going up, particularly in Germany. I don't know how much of that operation supplies into Europe or not, but could that possibly improve your outlook for the operations of that plant? Thank you.

其次，據我們所知，歐洲的支出可能會增加，特別是在德國。我不知道該工廠有多少產品供應至歐洲，但這是否可能改善您對該工廠營運的展望？謝謝。

Yeah hi John, this is Sam Lyon. First of all, over the last 3 years, really, we've had significant losses in the U.K. And it's gotten to the point where without some intervention or help, we don't see a sustainable path forward. So the formal process in the U.K. is to enter collective consultation, which we have done, which allows the workforce as well as the local governments and governments of U.K.

是的，你好，約翰，我是山姆·里昂。首先，在過去 3 年裡，英國確實遭受了重大損失。現在的情況是，如果不介入或幫助，我們就看不到永續發展的道路。因此，英國的正式程序是進行集體協商，我們已經這樣做了，這使得英國的勞動力以及地方政府和政府能夠參與其中。

to decide how and if they can help us to stem these losses as we don't see normal market conditions, such as you're mentioning in Germany significantly affecting the path forward for this operation. So that process takes several months. Once that's completed, a conclusion will be rendered, which could be anything from getting enough support for new equipment, tax breaks, things like that, that the normal government could do to help us to -- if they can't help us and the union can't see a path forward to stem the losses or return them to breakeven could result in the complete closure of the plant.

決定如何以及是否可以幫助我們阻止這些損失，因為我們沒有看到正常的市場條件（例如您提到的德國市場條件）嚴重影響這項行動的進展。所以這個過程需要幾個月的時間。一旦完成，就會得出結論，可能是獲得足夠的新設備支援、稅收減免等，諸如此類，政府可以採取正常措施來幫助我們——如果他們不能幫助我們，而工會又看不到阻止損失或使其恢復收支平衡的途徑，則可能導致工廠徹底關閉。

Okay. Would that also -- you say closure of the plant, but would you -- if you got to that point where you weren't getting the government help or assistance or whatever that you would look to sell that facility and that operation to another player by any chance? Or would it just be a shutdown and write-off?

好的。您說關閉工廠，但是如果您到了得不到政府幫助或援助或其他任何東西的地步，您是否會考慮將該設施和該業務出售給其他參與者？或只是關閉並註銷？

All options are available, frankly. So anywhere from exactly what you mentioned will be available as well. Now one thing I will say is the roll market in general in Europe is oversupplied, which is part of the issue, which I mentioned in my call. Secondly, the cost of energy per roll is about roughly double what it is in our Sweden plant. So there's some fairly significant headwinds in that particular plant.

坦白說，所有選項都是可用的。因此，您提到的任何地方都可以使用。現在我要說的是，歐洲捲材市場總體上供應過剩，這是我在電話會議中提到的問題的一部分。其次，每卷的能源成本大約是我們瑞典工廠的兩倍。因此，該工廠面臨相當大的阻力。

Okay. Very good. And then turning to the Air & Liquid division, you indicated that you've got pretty good strong order trends and so forth. Do you feel that there's additional markets that you can enter into? Or do you just think this market in general is expanding perhaps because of getting more exposure to the Navy program and other nuclear activities?

好的。非常好。然後談到空氣和液體部門，您表示您有相當強勁的訂單趨勢等等。您是否覺得有其他市場可以進入？或者您只是認為這個市場總體上正在擴大，也許是因為海軍計劃和其他核子活動的曝光度有所提高？

John, it's Dave. It's kind of both. We are seeing within our current markets, more activity. The Navy certainly has embarked on a long-term plan to expand the size of the fleet. So there's continued activity there.

約翰，我是戴夫。兩者都有。我們看到，當前市場的活動更加活躍。海軍確實已經開始實施擴大艦隊規模的長期計畫。因此那裡的活動仍在繼續。

The nuclear market, really, we're seeing a lot of activity from different ways to achieve that power, the small modular reactors to bringing back facilities that have been closed down. So within the current markets, there's a lot of opportunities.

事實上，在核能市場，我們看到許多活動透過不同的方式實現發電，從小型模組化反應器到恢復已關閉的設施。因此，在當前市場中存在著許多機會。

And then the opportunity to more outside of North America is also there for us. I think we're going to see the nuclear market, in particular, being embraced in a lot of areas. So I think there'll be some of our ability to expand beyond our traditional North American market as well.

我們也有更多機會開拓北美以外的市場。我認為我們將會看到核能市場在許多領域受到歡迎。所以我認為我們也有能力擴展到傳統的北美市場之外。

Yeah. Okay. That's good. And then the last question is, you said your debt levels were basically flat year over year. With your CapEx and plant equipment renewal and so forth pretty well -- I'm assuming pretty well behind you, then do you think that you can address the debt levels and bring them down to more either eliminated or more comfortable levels?

是的。好的。那挺好的。最後一個問題是，您說您的債務水平與去年同期基本持平。鑑於您的資本支出和工廠設備更新等進展順利 - 我認為您已經取得了很大進展，那麼您認為您可以解決債務水平並將其降低到更消除或更舒適的水平嗎？

Yeah. I think we have -- the equipment financing is term debt. We have some -- I mean, if you look at what the composition of our debt balance, we have some longer-term structures in there, but the revolving credit facility is the place where we have -- that can go up and down with business activity. And I think what we'll see going forward, a lot of it depends on demand and supporting the business working capital needs. So I think working capital is one of the biggest drivers for being able to change the outstandings on the credit line.

是的。我認為我們有—設備融資是定期債務。我們有一些——我的意思是，如果你看看我們的債務餘額的組成，我們其中有一些長期結構，但循環信貸額度是我們擁有的地方——它可以隨著商業活動而上下波動。我認為，我們未來將會看到，這很大程度取決於需求和支持業務營運資金需求。因此，我認為營運資金是改變信用額度未償還餘額的最大驅動力之一。

If demand goes up, it's going to be hard to reduce the debt, the variable debt. And if demand comes down, it's bad for the income statement, of course, but it's good for liquidity. It means liquidating working capital and reducing borrowings as that happens and liquidity and the balance sheet start to look better.

如果需求上升，減少債務、可變債務就會變得困難。如果需求下降，這當然對損益表不利，但對流動性有利。這意味著清算營運資本並減少借款，流動性和資產負債表開始變得更好。

So those are the variables at stake here. And then we've got to be thinking about whatever happens, we need some contingency planning for whatever the outcome is in the UK, because there's cost to manage things like that.

這些就是這裡所涉及的變數。然後我們必須考慮無論發生什麼，我們都需要為英國的任何結果制定一些應急計劃，因為管理這樣的事情需要成本。

But I think the main variable is working capital and where demand goes from here for the next couple of years as we look forward. One thing we've been doing to keep the debt flat and yet continue to invest is some of the things that we've done in Air & Liquid, for example, with available grants to kind of debottleneck the supply chain that we've been taking advantage of to fund our CapEx with government grant funding. So that's a good way to keep the debt flat.

但我認為主要的變數是營運資金以及未來幾年的需求走向。為了保持債務穩定並繼續投資，我們一直在做的一件事就是我們在 Air & Liquid 所做的一些事情，例如，利用可用的補助金來消除供應鏈的瓶頸，我們一直在利用政府補助金為我們的資本支出提供資金。所以這是保持債務平穩的好方法。

Sure. And then when you get customer orders, is there a certain amount or percentage or whatever of prepayment that helps with that with the cash flow.

當然。然後，當您收到客戶訂單時，是否有一定金額或百分比或任何預付款來幫助現金流。

It does, yeah. And in fact, in '24, we saw more customer deposits coming in than we did in the prior year, and that's been a source of cash flow for 2024, and was part of the story for the cash from operating activities being as high as it was in 2024. And yeah, that's a focal effort for us, and it's been a good source of liquidity, sure.

是的，確實如此。事實上，2024 年，我們看到客戶存款比前一年增加，這是 2024 年現金流的來源，也是 2024 年經營活動現金流高企的原因之一。是的，這是我們的重點努力方向，而且它確實是一個很好的流動性來源。

Sure. Just to be clear, that's mainly on the ALS business. So very little on the Forged and Cast Engineered Products business. There is some, but not as much.

當然。需要明確的是，這主要涉及 ALS 業務。因此，鍛造和鑄造工程產品業務很少。有一些，但是沒有那麼多。

Okay very good well thank you for taking my questions good luck going forward.

好的，非常好，感謝您回答我的問題，祝您好運。

Thank you.

謝謝。

David Wright, Henry Investment Trust.

亨利投資信託公司的大衛賴特。

Hey, good morning, everyone.

嘿，大家早安。

Good morning, David.

早安，大衛。

Hey, Mike, do you have year-end backlog by business segment?

嘿，麥克，你有按業務部門劃分的年終積壓訂單嗎？

Yes, David, we do. And you're going to see this in the 10-K coming out on Monday. But I did say that backlog was flat with 2023. 2023, $379 million total, 2024 being flat, it's $379 million, 12/31/24, the composition of which is Forged and Cast Engineered Products, $250.5 million; Air & Liquid Processing, $128.4 million.

是的，大衛，我們知道。您將在周一發布的 10-K 中看到這一點。但我確實說過積壓訂單與 2023 年持平。 2023 年總計 3.79 億美元，2024 年持平，為 3.79 億美元，2024 年 12 月 31 日，其中鍛造和鑄造工程產品為 2.505 億美元；空氣和液體處理，1.284億美元。

Okay, thank you. The asbestos, I'm going to call them revaluations they were getting done every two years, and now you've done them a couple of years in a row. Is there -- is that a change? Is it going to be an annual thing going forward?

好的，謝謝。對於石棉，我將其稱為每兩年進行一次的重新評估，而現在你們已經連續幾年進行評估了。有變化嗎？以後這會成為一項年度活動嗎？

I think, yes. I think we -- the only -- the one we did last year, I think it had been maybe three years since we had previously done one. And we learned from that, that as trends change, it's probably better to just do them annually to try to stay on top of incremental changes as they come and go. So it's more likely that we will probably increase the -- maintain the frequency at a regular annual pace probably. Yeah.

我認為是的。我想我們──唯一的──是我們去年做的那次，我想距離我們上次做那次大概已經過了三年。我們從中了解到，隨著趨勢的變化，最好每年都進行一次，以便隨時掌握不斷變化的趨勢。因此，我們更有可能增加頻率——可能將頻率保持在正常的年度速度。是的。

Okay. Sam, you said that -- good news that tariffs, you didn't see as much of a concern. I had a couple of questions there. Thinking about tariffs last time around, are mill rolls tariff items? Or do you get exclusions sometimes?

好的。山姆，你說過，關稅是個好消息，你不覺得這有什麼大問題。我有幾個問題。上次考慮關稅時，軋輥屬於關稅項目嗎？或者你有時會被排除嗎？

They have not been in the past, and we do not see them being in the future. They're actually classified as rolling mill components or parts. So they're not classified as, say, steel like tool steel would be or rebar would be or flat rolled product would be. They're classified as a component of a rolling mill.

過去它們沒有出現過，我們也不認為將來它們會出現。它們實際上被歸類為軋機組件或零件。因此，它們不屬於工具鋼、鋼筋或扁軋產品等鋼類。它們被歸類為軋機的組成部分。

So as things stand now, you can bring rolls in from Europe to the US, and there's no tariff on them.

就目前情況而言，你可以將捲筒從歐洲帶入美國，而且無需繳納關稅。

That's correct.

沒錯。

Great. Okay. Well, good. That's the end of the question. Really good year-end level of detail, Brett. Thanks for the time you and the team put into preparing for the call.

偉大的。好的。嗯，很好。問題到此結束。布雷特，年終細節水平確實很好。感謝您和團隊為準備這通通話所付出的時間。

Thank you, David.

謝謝你，大衛。

(Operator Instructions) Dennis Scannell, Rutabaga Capital.

（操作員指示）Dennis Scannell，Rutabaga Capital。

Yes, great. Good morning. A couple of things for me. To circle back to the UK plant, I'm kind of curious, what kind of roles are they making cast or forged are they large diameter or small? And is that capacity that you're just going to walk away from? Or can you replace it with your existing facilities?

是的，太棒了。早安.對我來說有幾件事。回到英國工廠，我有點好奇，他們製造的是什麼樣的鑄件或鍛造件？直徑是大還是小？那麼您是否會放棄這種能力呢？或者你能用現有的設施來取代它嗎？

Yes, Dennis, this is Sam. So they -- it's a cast roll facility, which primarily serves two product lines, hot mill work rolls and then static cast, mostly backup rolls or section mill rolls. So those are very large rolls that we make anywhere from 100 to 130 of those a year.

是的，丹尼斯，這是山姆。所以他們 - 這是一個鑄造輥設施，主要服務於兩條產品線，熱軋工作輥和靜態鑄造，主要是支撐輥或型鋼軋輥。這些都是非常大的捲，我們每年生產 100 到 130 卷。

And then the higher volume rolls are the work rolls, spun cast rolls. The spun cast rolls, a high percentage of those can be absorbed if we get to the point where we need to close can be absorbed into our Sweden facility. The static cast backups, the majority of those are probably 70% of those would go away, 30% or so, we could potentially convert to forged backup rolls.

產量較高的輥是工作輥和旋鑄輥。如果我們到了需要關閉的地步，那麼旋轉鑄軋捲的很大一部分可以被吸收到我們的瑞典工廠中。靜態鑄造備份，其中大部分大概有 70% 會消失，30% 左右，我們可能會轉換為鍛造備份卷。

Okay. Interesting. And just out of curiosity, have you had discussions with customers on, say, the -- at least the portion, that 30% that you probably couldn't absorb. I mean, any concern about customer relations? Or are they concerned at all about their ability to meet their needs from other suppliers?

好的。有趣的。出於好奇，您是否與客戶討論過至少那 30% 您可能無法吸收的部分。我的意思是，對客戶關係有任何擔憂嗎？還是他們擔心自己是否有能力從其他供應商滿足需求？

It's a mixed bag. We're having those conversations now because it's a public process when you go through this collective consultation process, and we are starting to have discussions with customers on 2026 business.

這是一個混合包。我們現在正在進行這些對話，因為這是一個公開的過程，當你經歷這個集體協商過程時，我們開始與客戶討論 2026 年的業務。

So most of them are saying, just keep us informed of what's going on. And as soon as you know, something, please let us know. And most of our customers have multiple suppliers. So we're just trying to be as transparent and as clear as we can be so that we don't have a problem that you're talking about to adversely affect our customers.

所以他們中的大多數人都說，只要讓我們知道發生了什麼事就行了。一旦您知道任何消息，請立即告知我們。我們的大多數客戶都有多個供應商。因此，我們只是試圖盡可能地透明和清晰，以便我們不會遇到您所說的對我們的客戶產生不利影響的問題。

Yeah. Got it. Okay. And then just on -- the comparison to Sweden is really striking in terms of the costs are about double relative to what you're able to achieve in Sweden. And so is that due to labor, energy costs or the equipment is antiquated?

是的。知道了。好的。然後繼續——與瑞典的比較確實令人震驚，因為成本大約是瑞典的兩倍。那麼，這是因為勞力、能源成本還是設備陳舊造成的呢？

I mean anything that you can point to specifically that makes it so uneconomic?

我的意思是，您能具體指出什麼原因導致它如此不經濟嗎？

Well, specifically, the energy is what's double, not -- or even sometimes it's even more. And we track it on a monthly basis. And the main issue is that -- the UK is a net importer of energy. And over the years, a lot of Europe went away from their coal-fired power plants.

嗯，具體來說，能量是雙倍的，而不是——有時甚至更多。我們每月都會進行追蹤。主要問題是──英國是能源淨進口國。多年來，歐洲許多國家已經放棄了燃煤發電廠。

They got rid of their natural gas storage, and we're very, very reliant, many of them on Russia and the Philippines and Sweden is an energy exporter and has a lot of hydro, nuclear and other methods. So -- and it varies by month, but it's several thousand dollars a roll difference just in energy cost.

他們放棄了天然氣儲存，我們非常非常依賴俄羅斯和菲律賓，而瑞典是一個能源出口國，擁有大量的水力、核能和其他能源方式。所以 — — 雖然每個月都會有所不同，但光是能源成本就相差幾千美元。

Got it. I just misunderstood. It's the (inaudible) no the total cost. Okay. And then looking at your North American business, can you guys talk about, at least on the roll side, percentage of your -- the rolls that are shipped to Canada versus in the US and versus Mexico? Just kind of curious whether that's kind of how that mix works out.

知道了。我剛才誤會了。這是（聽不清楚）總成本。好的。然後看看你們的北美業務，你們能否至少談談在捲筒方面，運往加拿大、美國和墨西哥的捲筒的百分比？只是有點好奇這種混合是否能產生這樣的效果。

Yes. We're roughly 50% -- like we're 55% typically domestic -- or North America and 45% Europe and others. The total business in the US -- I'm sorry, the total business overall cast and forged that we ship to Canada ranged from roughly $4 million to $10 million from '22 to '24 and $13 million to $15 million in Mexico. So the total is about $25 million total business shipped to Mexico and Canada from our business. If you give me one second, I can look at forged versus cast, I have that information handy here.

是的。我們大約有 50%（通常是 55%）在國內，或北美，45% 在歐洲和其他國家。美國的總業務—抱歉，我們運往加拿大的鑄件和鍛件總業務在 2022 年至 2024 年期間約為 400 萬至 1,000 萬美元，在墨西哥則為 1,300 萬至 1,500 萬美元。因此，我們向墨西哥和加拿大出口的業務總額約為 2500 萬美元。如果您給我一點時間，我可以看看鍛造與鑄造的區別，我這裡有這方面的資訊。

Here we go. So on the forged side, into Canada, roughly, it was roughly about $5 million. And then into Mexico on the forged side, roughly anywhere from $7 million to $10 million, Ternium being one of our larger customers in Canada.

開始了。因此，在加拿大，偽造的金額約為 500 萬美元。然後進入墨西哥的偽造額大約在 700 萬到 1000 萬美元之間，Ternium 是我們在加拿大的較大客戶之一。

And then just to keep in perspective, I don't have the Mexico numbers, but Mexico -- Canada ships roughly 6 million tons into the US out of a total demand of about 120 million tons, and then US ships 3 million back. So it's not a big number. Mexico would be a little larger.

然後，為了便於理解，我沒有墨西哥的數據，但墨西哥 - 加拿大向美國運送了大約 600 萬噸，而總需求量約為 1.2 億噸，然後美國運回 300 萬噸。所以這不是一個很大的數字。墨西哥會稍微大一點。

Yes. Right. Okay. Good. No, that's helpful color. And then let's say, I think we said $12 million was spent in total on CapEx, and I may have missed this, but Mike, could you talk about what our plan is for 2025?

是的。正確的。好的。好的。不，那是有用的顏色。然後比方說，我想我們說過資本支出總共花費了 1200 萬美元，我可能錯過了這一點，但是麥克，你能談談我們 2025 年的計劃是什麼嗎？

Our 2025 CapEx or something like that.

我們的 2025 年資本支出或類似的東西。

Yeah. It's Dennis, it's not going to be too different, but we do again, we do have some grant funding coming to help mitigate that down. So it's going to be kind of flattish.

是的。這是丹尼斯，情況不會有太大不同，但我們確實再次提供了一些贈款資金來幫助緩解這種情況。所以它會有點平坦。

Yeah. No, that's good. So I would say, again, I would echo the previous caller's comment about a nice detailed report. But I have to say and maybe this is the analyst in me. It's really helpful to get the 10-K beforehand.

是的。不，那很好。因此，我想再次重申前一位來電者關於詳細報告的評論。但我不得不說，也許這就是我內心的分析師。提前獲得 10-K 確實很有幫助。

You actually have a lot of data on orders and backlog by product line in there that, again, is really nice to be able to review before these calls. So just speaking for myself, I would say the call is always more valuable to me after I've had a chance to go through the -- either your 10-Q or our 10-K, I'd rather wait until Monday after I've had a chance to review it to listen to your conference call.

實際上，您擁有大量有關按產品線劃分的訂單和積壓數據，能夠在這些通話之前進行審查真的很有幫助。所以，就我個人而言，我想說，在我有機會看過你們的 10-Q 或我們的 10-K 之後，電話會議對我來說總是更有價值，我寧願等到週一，在我有機會審查它之後再聽你們的電話會議。

Instead, I'll probably be scheduling a call with Mike next week to follow up on some other stuff. But -- so that's just one editorial comment, but it does look like nice trends and look forward to a strong 2025. Thank you.

相反，我可能會安排下週與麥克通話，以跟進一些其他事情。但是——這只是一條編輯評論，但它確實看起來像是一個不錯的趨勢，並期待 2025 年的強勁發展。謝謝。

Thanks, Dennis.

謝謝，丹尼斯。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And ladies and gentlemen, at this time and showing no additional questions, I'd like to turn the floor back over to Brett McBrayer for closing remarks.

女士們、先生們，現在沒有其他問題了，我想把發言權交還給 Brett McBrayer 做最後發言。

Thank you. I want to recognize the positive improvements made by our employees in 2024. Thank you for your hard work and focus on continuous improvement. Also want to thank our shareholders and Board of Directors for your continued support. Although I am encouraged by our progress, I remain dissatisfied with our results.

謝謝。我想表彰我們的員工在 2024 年取得的積極進步。感謝您的辛勤工作和對持續改進的關注。也要感謝我們的股東和董事會的持續支持。儘管我對我們的進步感到鼓舞，但我仍然對我們的結果不滿意。

We will continue to focus our full efforts to deliver significantly improved returns to our shareholders. Thanks again for joining our call.

我們將繼續全力以赴，為股東帶來顯著的回報。再次感謝您參加我們的電話會議。

Fladies and gentlemen, with that we'll conclude today's conference call and presentation. We do thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

各位先生、女士們，今天的電話會議和演示就到此結束。我們非常感謝您的加入。現在您可以斷開線路了。