Angi Inc (ANGI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the IAC and Angi fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note today's event is being recorded.

歡迎參加 IAC 和 Angi 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的活動正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Christopher Halpin, Executive Vice President, CFO and COO of IAC. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給 IAC 執行副總裁、財務長兼營運長 Christopher Halpin。請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Christopher Halpin here, and welcome to the IAC and Angi Inc. Fourth Quarter Earnings Call. Joining me today are Barry Diller, Senior Executive and Chairman of IAC Joey Levin, CEO of IAC and Chairman of Angi Inc.; and Jeff Kipp, CEO of Angi Inc.

謝謝。大家早安。我是克里斯托弗·哈爾平 (Christopher Halpin)，歡迎參加 IAC 和 Angi Inc. 第四季度財報電話會議。今天與我一起的還有 IAC 高級執行長兼董事長 Barry Diller、IAC 執行長兼 Angi Inc. 董事長 Joey Levin；以及 Angi Inc. 首席執行官 Jeff Kipp

Supplemental to our quarterly earnings releases, IAC and Angi have each published shareholder letters which are currently available on the Investor Relations sections of their respective websites. We will not be reading the shareholder letters on this call. I will shortly turn the call over to Barry and then Joey to make a few introductory remarks followed by Q&A.

作為我們季度收益報告的補充，IAC 和 Angi 分別發布了股東信函，目前可在各自網站的投資者關係部分查閱。我們不會在本次電話會議上宣讀股東信。我很快就會把電話轉給 Barry，然後讓 Joey 做一些介紹性發言，然後進行問答。

Before we get to that, I'd like to remind you that during this presentation, we may make certain statements that are considered forward-looking under the federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements may include statements related to our outlook, strategy and future performance and are based on our current expectations and on information currently available to us.

在討論這個問題之前，我想提醒您，在本次演示中，我們可能會做出某些根據聯邦證券法被視為前瞻性的陳述。這些前瞻性陳述可能包括與我們的展望、策略和未來績效相關的陳述，並且基於我們當前的預期和我們目前掌握的資訊。

Actual outcomes and results may differ materially from the future results expressed or implied in these statements due to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those contained in our most recent quarterly report on Form 10-Q, our most recent annual report on Form 10-K and in the subsequent reports that we file with the SEC.

由於存在許多風險和不確定因素，包括我們最近的 10-Q 表季度報告、最近的 10-K 表年度報告以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的後續報告中包含的風險和不確定因素，實際成果和結果可能與這些聲明中表達或暗示的未來結果存在重大差異。

The information provided on this conference call should be considered in light of such risks. We'll also discuss certain non-GAAP measures which, as a reminder, include adjusted EBITDA, which we will refer to today as EBITDA for simplicity during the call. I'll refer you to our earnings releases, the IAC and Angi shareholder letters, our public filings with the SEC and again, to the Investor Relations section of our respective websites for all comparable GAAP measures and full reconciliations for all material non-GAAP measures.

應根據此類風險考慮本次電話會議提供的資訊。我們還將討論某些非 GAAP 指標，提醒一下，其中包括調整後的 EBITDA，為了在電話會議中簡單起見，我們今天將其稱為 EBITDA。我將向您推薦我們的收益報告、IAC 和 Angi 股東信函、我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的公開文件，以及我們各自網站的投資者關係部分，以了解所有可比較的 GAAP 指標和所有重大非 GAAP 指標的完整對帳。

And now I will turn it over to our Senior Executive and Chairman, Barry Diller.

現在我將把發言權交給我們的高級執行官兼董事長巴里·迪勒。

Thank you, Chris. Yes, I am definitely the very senior executive, but it's nice to talk with you this morning. I haven't been on one of these calls, and I think a little more than 10 years. And hopefully, you will not want me to wait another 10 years before I do it again. But what I wanted to do really is to review what's really happened in this company over the last couple of years. About two years ago, we, of course, realized that our -- two of our principal businesses, Angi and Dotdash were troubled.

謝謝你，克里斯。是的，我確實是非常資深的主管，但很高興今天早上與您交談。我沒有參加過這樣的電話會議，我想已經有 10 多年了。而且希望您不會希望我再等 10 年才再這樣做。但我真正想做的是回顧過去幾年這家公司到底發生了什麼事。大約兩年前，我們意識到我們的兩大主要業務 Angi 和 Dotdash 陷入了困境。

Here's what the troubles were. We had taken Angi, which the prior year at about $260 million of EBITDA down to $35 million. Our CapEx shot up to $115 million. On Dotdash Meredith, the initial plot after the acquisition was we thought we would do $450 million in EBITDA, actually, the plot for that particular year, two and half years ago, three years ago, went from $335 million down to $230 million. So I felt, as did Joey Levin and our colleagues that we were really in a crisis. And we had to fix these two principal businesses.

問題如下。我們已將 Angi 的 EBITDA 從前一年的約 2.6 億美元降至 3,500 萬美元。我們的資本支出猛增至 1.15 億美元。對於 Dotdash Meredith 來說，收購後我們最初預計的 EBITDA 為 4.5 億美元，但實際上，兩年半、三年前的那個特定年份，該數字從 3.35 億美元下降到了 2.3 億美元。因此，我、喬伊·萊文和我們的同事都感覺到，我們確實陷入了危機。我們必須解決這兩個主要業務。

So we essentially stopped everything. We did not want to do things that either extended the amount of work we had to do into other areas that weren't as important. We knew that we had to hit the ground and really spend and we thought at the time it would take certainly one year maybe two, to get these businesses back to performing. And so we froze everything basically other than attending those two businesses and getting them back on a track where they need it to be.

所以我們基本上停止了一切工作。我們不想做一些將我們的工作量擴展到不太重要的其他領域的事情。我們知道，我們必須腳踏實地、真正投入資金，我們當時認為，要讓這些企業恢復正常運轉，肯定需要一年甚至兩年的時間。因此，我們基本上凍結了所有業務，只專注於這兩家企業並讓它們回到它們需要的正軌上。

At Angi -- some of this, of course, you all know, but I really want to put this in context because I do think it is, at least, from my point of view, it clarifies what the company has been doing in these last couple of years and where we are now and where I think we will be in the future. First thing we did is we replaced the CEO of Angi with Joey Levin, who was kind of also, obviously, at that time, he was the CEO of IAC.

在 Angi — — 當然，你們都知道其中的一些情況，但我真的想把它放在上下文中，因為我確實認為，至少從我的角度來看，它闡明了公司在過去幾年裡一直在做什麼，我們現在處於什麼位置，以及我認為我們未來會處於什麼位置。我們做的第一件事就是用喬伊·萊文 (Joey Levin) 取代安吉 (Angi) 的首席執行官，顯然，喬伊·萊文當時也是 IAC 的首席執行官。

But we said, okay, we'll take all the other areas of IAC, you concentrate on fixing Angi. We immediately got rid of the low quality and a low margin revenue, which reduced our revenue but -- and we stopped the capital expenditures at anything near that level. I think we went from $115 million, if I recall correctly -- or I said correctly earlier, to about $50 million. And what happened is that, of course, the profit and the cash flow went back on to a positive track.

但我們說，好吧，我們將接管 IAC 的所有其他領域，你專心修復 Angi。我們立即擺脫了低品質、低利潤的收入，這減少了我們的收入，但是——我們將資本支出停止在接近該水平。如果我沒記錯的話，或者我之前說的沒錯的話，我們的金額從 1.15 億美元下降到了約 5,000 萬美元。當然，利潤和現金流又回到了正軌。

We also appointed Jeff Kip, to be the CEO. He had been running the international businesses really well. And at the essence, Angi, like all these entities, they are product companies, and we had to fix the product. All of that work has been in train for these last couple of years. And Angi now is back, as you can see from the figures, it is back from where it was A lot of the things that happened to Angi were -- some of them were self-inflicted, some of them were grandiose plans to get into the services business ourselves, et cetera, which, while good ideas were not executed well at all.

我們也任命 Jeff Kip 為執行長。他一直把國際業務經營得非常好。從本質上講，Angi 和所有這些實體一樣，它們都是產品公司，我們必須修復產品。所有這些工作都是在過去幾年裡籌備的。現在 Angi 回來了，正如你從數據中看到的那樣，她又回到了原來的地方。 很多發生在 Angi 身上的事情，有些是她自己造成的，有些是我們自己進軍服務業的宏偉計劃，等等，雖然想法很好，但執行得併不好。

And so Joey and now Jeff went in and took the thing down to, I think, kind of its studs and have built it back up where it can now perform. And then hopefully, next year, you'll see real revenue growth. So that's the arc of Angi. On Dotdash Meredith, we reversed the traffic declines. They're up -- I think traffic is up about 8%.

所以喬伊和傑夫就把這個東西拆了，我想，是把它的螺柱拆掉，然後再把它重新組裝起來，讓它現在可以正常使用了。希望明年你能看到真正的收入成長。這就是 Angi 的弧線。在 Dotdash Meredith 上，我們扭轉了流量下滑的趨勢。我認為流量上漲了——上漲了約 8%。

With the integration, as you all know, when people talk about integration and synergies and all of that, they can talk a good game. But when you get right down to it, it's a tough slog. And it was a very difficult one and a half years as Dotdash (technical difficulty) invested in digital (technical difficulty) great makes us get this whole thing in train (technical difficulty) Dotdash have done so well, which is the thing that got us to buy, which is we thought we had a game plan for properties, service properties, be able to gain advertising at a greater value than anyone else.

眾所周知，透過整合，當人們談論整合、協同效應等時，他們可以談論一場精彩的比賽。但當你真正開始做這件事時，你會發現這是一項非常艱鉅的任務。這是非常艱難的一年半，因為 Dotdash（技術難度）在數位（技術難度）方面的投資使我們得以順利完成整個事情（技術難度）Dotdash 做得非常好，這也是促使我們購買的原因，我們認為我們有一個針對資產、服務資產的遊戲計劃，能夠以比其他任何人都更高的價值獲得廣告。

And Angi, I'll just give you just one -- I don't do stats very well. So this is my one thing on stats, which is the digital revenue growth, and I found this very stark. This is Q2 of '22. I'm just going to read you a consecutive six, seven quarters, down 7%, down 13%, down 15%, down (technical difficulty)

安吉，我只能告訴你一個事實──我不太擅長統計。這是我在統計數據上看到的一個現象，即數位收入成長，我發現這一點非常明顯。這是22年第二季。我只是要告訴你們連續六、七個季度，下降 7%，下降 13%，下降 15%，下降（技術難度）

Barry, I think we --

巴里，我想我們--

It looks like Mr. Diller, we have lost your audio, sir.

迪勒先生，看起來我們失去了您的音訊。

Barry, can you hear us? Well, hopefully, we will get the audio back there. And the good news on that is previous remarks, we're very consistent with some of the things that I was going to say, so hopefully, I can pick up where he left off. First of all, thank you, Barry. Thank you to Chris. Thank you to Jeff and everybody for being on this call. I looked in my first one of these calls was in Q4 of 2013. So I've been doing these calls for 12 years, and this is, I think, nearly my 50th one of these calls, but only actually one of those was ever with BD. So this is a treat for all of us if we can get them back on the line in fixing that connection.

巴里，你聽得到我們說話嗎？好吧，希望我們能恢復音訊。好消息是，我們之前的言論與我要說的一些事情非常一致，所以希望我能接著他上次說的話繼續說下去。首先，謝謝你，巴里。感謝克里斯。感謝 Jeff 和所有人參加此次電話會議。我第一次接到這樣的電話是在 2013 年第四季。我已經打了 12 年的電話了，我想這差不多是我打的第 50 次電話了，但實際上只有一次是與 BD 打的。所以如果我們能夠讓他們重新回到這條線上並修復這種聯繫，這對我們所有人來說都是一種享受。

Obviously, we have plenty of ups and downs as Barry took us through and businesses come and go since then, but it's nice to have the operations really on the upswing right now. We finished the year 2024 very strong. We had a nearly $250 million increase in cash flow year-on-year to almost $300 million of cash flow for IAC's businesses. And the -- there's just real momentum right now behind the businesses, especially Dotdash and Angi. Dotdash is outgrowing the market. And Angi is almost there.

顯然，自從巴里帶領我們走過的這段時間以來，我們經歷了許多起起落落，企業也來來去去，但很高興現在業務真的在好轉。我們以非常強勁的勢頭結束了 2024 年。我們的現金流年增了近 2.5 億美元，IAC 業務的現金流達到近 3 億美元。而且目前這些企業的發展勢頭強勁，尤其是 Dotdash 和 Angi。Dotdash 的成長速度已經超出了市場的預期。安吉 (Angi) 快到了。

We're looking at growth next year as we've discussed. And the good news is we've had enough progress in the business in terms of just delivering the customer experience, nailing the unit economics, addressing the costs and OpEx and CapEx, such that we've had enough to with at Angi that we were really able to rip off this last quarter or this current quarter, sorry Q1, we're really able to rip off that last band-aid and get the product experience fully to where we want it to be. And that means we can start building again. And that's what Jeff and I are -- and the entire team at Angi are incredibly excited to do.

正如我們所討論的，我們正在關註明年的成長。好消息是，我們在業務上已經取得了足夠的進展，僅僅是提供客戶體驗、確定單位經濟、解決成本、營運支出和資本支出，以至於我們在 Angi 已經做夠了，我們真的能夠在上個季度或當前季度，對不起，第一季度，撕掉最後的創可貼，讓產品體驗完全達到我們想要的水平。這意味著我們可以重新開始建造。這就是 Jeff 和我——以及 Angi 的整個團隊都非常興奮地做的事情。

And as I said for a quarter or two now, we're back on offense. And I think that's true for both IAC and Angi. And I think Barry and Chris and everybody at IAC are incredibly excited about that. And Jeff and I at Angi as well are soon to be at Angi as well, incredibly excited to be back on offense. And that's a great place to be. So unless we connect to Barry in the next second or so, let's go to questions.

正如我剛才所說，我們現在已經重新開始進攻。我認為對於 IAC 和 Angi 都是如此。我認為 Barry、Chris 以及 IAC 的每個人都對此感到非常興奮。而 Jeff 和我很快也將前往 Angi，我們非常高興能夠重回進攻崗位。那真是個好地方。因此，除非我們在下一秒左右聯絡 Barry，否則我們先來回答問題。

Yes, sir. sorry, I do not have Mr. Diller back on yet.

是的，先生。抱歉，我還沒聯絡上迪勒先生。

Okay. Let's go to the question queue, operator, and take the first question.

好的。接線員，我們進入提問隊列，回答第一個問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Cory Carpenter, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的科里·卡彭特（Cory Carpenter）。

I had one for each of you, I think, on Angi. Joe, I start with you. Could you talk about your motivations from moving to Angi with the spin? Maybe for Jeff, what's giving you confidence in trends improving through the year despite the 1Q guide coming in below your prior expectations? And for Chris, could you just talk through the next steps in the spin process and if I see is planning to take any cash from Angi.

我想，我在 Angi 上為你們每個人都準備了一個。喬，我從你開始。您能談談您轉投 Angi 的動機嗎？也許對於傑夫來說，儘管第一季的指引低於您先前的預期，但是什麼讓您對全年趨勢的改善充滿信心？對於克里斯，您能否談談分拆過程的下一步，以及我是否看到他計劃從安吉那裡拿現金。

Sure. I'll start. Thanks, Cory. I think to answer your question, there's both a -- of course, a personal and a professional element and a lot of overlap with those things. But on the personal side, I think there comes a point in life where you start to optimize for freedom and that time for me, I decided it now, and I'm incredibly excited about it. And on the professional side, Angi just still has asymmetrical upside, I believe.

當然。我先開始。謝謝，科里。我認為回答你的問題，這當然既有個人因素，也有專業因素，而且兩者有很多重疊。但從個人角度來說，我認為生命中總有那麼一個節點，你會開始追求自由，而對我來說，那個時候我已經做出了決定，而且我對此感到非常興奮。而從職業角度來看，我相信 Angi 仍然具有不對稱的優勢。

And I know how hard it's been. I know it is in this business, but as I started to say before, the news is, I think we've done most of the hard stuff. We've pulled out most of the challenging things. And now it's -- believe me, no fun to sit in front of all of you and own some big mistakes and rip out some sizable chunks of revenue. But that really, especially with the changes Jeff talked about in the letter on January 13 is now behind us. And that means we -- the -- I think the pains in the rearview mirror and now we finally get to focus on building again. And that building process with a product that makes us proud is a fun thing to do, and I'm really excited to do it.

我知道這有多困難。我知道這是這項業務，但正如我之前所說的，我認為我們已經完成了大部分困難的事情。我們已經解決了大多數有挑戰性的事情。而現在——相信我，坐在你們面前承認一些重大錯誤並損失大量收入並不是一件有趣的事。但事實上，尤其是傑夫在 1 月 13 日的信中談到的變化已經過去了。這意味著我們————我認為痛苦已經消失殆盡，現在我們終於可以再次專注於建設。打造一款讓我們感到自豪的產品的過程是一件有趣的事情，我對此感到非常興奮。

Thanks, Cory. I'll just take the spin process questions. We filed the registration statement on January 27. Once it's declared effective, we'll continue to finalize separation agreements between the companies. We'll also make additional filings with the SEC as necessary. We are very focused on closing right now on March 31, but we continue to work through customary legal and tax considerations along with certain operational details.

謝謝，科里。我只回答旋轉過程的問題。我們於 1 月 27 日提交了註冊聲明。一旦宣布生效，我們將繼續敲定兩家公司之間的分離協議。我們還將根據需要向美國證券交易委員會提交額外文件。我們現在非常專注於在 3 月 31 日完成交易，但我們仍將繼續處理慣例法律和稅務考量以及某些營運細節。

At the end of the day, the goal is a seamless and successful transition to -- for Angi to be in a stand-alone public company. And as we said, we're on process for 3/331. Regarding Angi balance sheet, the current plan is not to make any dividends. So we would spin Angie with its current cash balance of $416 million and $500 million of attractively priced bonds.

最終的目標是實現無縫且成功的過渡——讓 Angi 成為一家獨立的上市公司。正如我們所說，我們正在進行 3/331 的籌備工作。至於 Angi 資產負債表，目前的計劃是不派發任何股息。因此，我們將利用安吉目前的 4.16 億美元現金餘額和 5 億美元價格誘人的債券進行融資。

With that, I'll pass to Jeff.

說完這些，我就把麥克風交給傑夫。

Thanks, Chris. So Cory, I'll take your question on Q1 and the 2025 outlook, and I'll probably throw in 2026 a little as well. Our Q1 outlook is a little below what we estimated about three months ago. At the time, we assume order would be world framed by the FCC order and we get ready -- we fully implemented consumer choice consistent with the FCC order on January 13. That's a couple of weeks ahead of the orders effective would take.

謝謝，克里斯。所以 Cory，我會回答你關於第一季和 2025 年展望的問題，而且我可能也會稍微提到 2026 年。我們對第一季的預期略低於三個月前的估計。當時，我們假設命令將由 FCC 命令制定，我們已做好準備——我們於 1 月 13 日根據 FCC 命令全面實施了消費者選擇。這比訂單生效時間提前了幾週。

Not just because of the order but also because we know and we've known it's clearly the best thing for our customers and the business long term. We've been steady moving towards this implementation and the FCC will really only accelerated our path. As we noted in the letter, the experience -- the improved experience has been an evidence for a while. Homeowner MPS is double digits better when they choose the pro than when they're auto matched, and Pros win the lead 60% more often when they're chosen than when they're automated. So we looked at that data, we said this is clearly the right thing -- since we've made the change, we've gotten very positive feedback from our customers, and we've observed the dynamics in the marketplace and the improvement in the market experience and has only confirmed all of this prior analysis and our conviction to change.

不僅僅是因為訂單，還因為我們知道並且已經知道這顯然對我們的客戶和長期業務最有利。我們一直在穩步朝著這一目標邁進，而 FCC 只會加速我們的進程。正如我們在信中所提到的，經驗－改進的體驗已經有一段時間了。房主選擇專業人士時的 MPS 比自動匹配時高出兩位數，而專業人士在被選中時贏得領先的頻率比自動匹配時高出 60%。因此，我們查看了這些數據，並表示這顯然是正確的做法——自從我們做出改變以來，我們得到了客戶的非常積極的反饋，我們觀察到了市場動態和市場經驗的改善，這只是證實了所有先前的分析和我們改變的信念。

On January '24, at the last minute, the courts vacated the FCC rule change. And we, however, are still going ahead. We're sticking with the change we're making. Our competition is not -- this is creating some short-term disruption in the market and an impact on our first quarter. But long term, we consider ourselves very well competitively positioned in the marketplace with a significantly better customer experience.

1 月 24 日，在最後一刻，法院撤銷了 FCC 規則的變更。但我們仍在繼續前進。我們將堅持我們正在做出的改變。我們的競爭對手不會——這會在市場上造成一些短期混亂，並對我們的第一季產生影響。但從長遠來看，我們認為自己在市場上具有非常強的競爭力，且客戶體驗明顯更好。

So going forward, we're obviously real time adjusting to the changes in the marketplace given the regulatory shift, but there's a number of factors that give us high confidence or build through 2025 and back to growth in 2026. The first quarter is our toughest comp for the year. We're sunsetting a few hundred basis points of non-choice revenue in our proprietary channels that we got rid of at the end of the first quarter last year and we don't have to compare to that for the rest of 2025.

因此，展望未來，考慮到監管的變化，我們顯然會即時適應市場的變化，但有許多因素讓我們充滿信心，或在 2025 年之前實現成長，並在 2026 年恢復成長。第一季是我們今年最艱難的季度。我們將取消去年第一季末取消的專有管道中幾百個基點的非選擇收入，我們不必與 2025 年剩餘時間的收入進行比較。

Secondly, we have a number of product builds impacting marketing efficiency, matching and monetization that we have clear data behind that will add revenue and profit as we build through the year. Thirdly, our single Pro product initiative referenced in the letter on the last call is going to lead to growth in revenue per monetized transaction by the second half of the year as we sunset our legacy ads pricing structures.

其次，我們有許多影響行銷效率、匹配和貨幣化的產品構建，我們擁有清晰的數據支持，這些數據將在全年構建過程中增加收入和利潤。第三，隨著我們取消傳統的廣告定價結構，我們在上次電話會議信中提到的單一專業產品計劃將在今年下半年帶來每筆貨幣化交易的收入成長。

Fourthly, we expect to steadily return to growth in our proprietary SR channels this year and be fully growing in 2026. Our SEM unbranded SRs are growing today. Angi.com SEO is only down single digits today and is 90% of our unbranded organic traffic. And so we expect to continue building through the year and reach growth in 2026. On the flip side, our third-party SRs are going to take a significant step down in 2025. But because we're doing it at the beginning of the year, we expect it to be flat in 2026, and the two together give you growth.

第四，我們預計今年我們的專有 SR 管道將穩步恢復成長，並在 2026 年實現全面成長。如今，我們的 SEM 無品牌 SR 正在持續成長。Angi.com SEO 如今僅下降了個位數，占我們非品牌自然流量的 90%。因此，我們預計今年將繼續建設，並在 2026 年實現成長。另一方面，我們的第三方 SR 將在 2025 年大幅下降。但因為我們是在年初這樣做的，所以我們預計到 2026 年它會持平，兩者結合起來會給你們帶來成長。

Finally, we expect increased homeowner repeat and pro retention because of the impact of a homeowner choice on the experience on both sides of the marketplace. So net Q1 is going to be down a little versus what we said a few months ago and down in the low 20%s year-over-year. But we've got even more confidence in revenue improvement across the year and a return to growth in 2026. And very much have confidence in competitive position we're able to take and the quality of the customer experience we're going to be able to deliver over the long term. So we think that this is to deliver value to our customers, value to our shareholders at a strong next couple of years.

最後，我們預計，由於房主的選擇會影響市場雙方的體驗，因此房主的重複購買和專業留存率將會增加。因此，第一季的淨利潤將與我們幾個月前所說的相比略有下降，同比下降幅度將在 20% 左右。但我們對於全年收入的提高和 2026 年恢復成長更有信心。我們對我們的競爭地位以及我們能夠長期提供的客戶體驗品質非常有信心。因此，我們認為，這將在未來幾年為我們的客戶和股東帶來價值。

John Blacklode, QTD Cowen.

約翰·布萊克洛德（John Blacklode），QTD Cowen。

And Joey, good luck with the move. Two questions for Chris. First, could you talk about the drivers of DDM 4Q revenue and EBITDA. And maybe walk through the 1Q '25 and fiscal '25 puts and takes for DDM revenue and EBITDA guide? And then second question would be kind of given IAC's strong balance sheet and the ramping free cash flow. How should we think about capital allocation? And then with the upcoming Angi spin and Joey moving over to Angi as Executive Chairman, how should we think about kind of the management transition at IAC?

喬伊，祝你搬家順利。問克里斯兩個問題。首先，您能談談 DDM 第四季營收和 EBITDA 的驅動因素嗎？或許可以介紹一下 25 年第一季和 25 財年的 DDM 營收和 EBITDA 指南的優缺點？第二個問題是，鑑於 IAC 強勁的資產負債表和不斷增加的自由現金流。我們該如何思考資本配置？那麼，隨著 Angi 的即將分拆以及 Joey 接替 Angi 擔任執行主席，我們應該如何看待 IAC 的管理過渡？

Yes. Thank you, John. So starting with DDM on our last earnings call, we talked about how sluggish both consumer traffic and advertiser spend we're headed up to and through the US election. We were cautiously optimistic at the time both would ramp back up after the political landscape was sorted. And we saw that. November traffic was excellent for us, most notably on our food sites. As Neil Vogel likes to say, Thanksgiving is the Super Bowl for all recipes.

是的。謝謝你，約翰。因此，在我們上次的收益電話會議上，從 DDM 開始，我們討論了在美國大選前和大選期間消費者流量和廣告商支出的低迷情況。當時，我們謹慎樂觀地認為，在政治情勢理順之後，這兩項業務都會重新成長。我們看到了這一點。11 月份我們的流量非常好，尤其是美食網站。正如尼爾沃格爾 (Neil Vogel) 所說，感恩節是所有食譜的超級盃。

Traffic in December was slower, mainly due to a lack of celebrity and entertainment news at people and some less robust holiday momentum in the home category. On the advertising front, we saw many advertisers come back into the premium and programmatic markets in mid-November. Net result of all that for the third quarter, we posted 3% core sessions growth and 3% digital advertising growth.

12 月的流量較慢，主要是因為人們缺乏名人和娛樂新聞，以及家庭類別的假期勢頭不太強勁。在廣告方面，我們看到許多廣告商在 11 月中旬重返高端和程式化廣告市場。總體而言，第三季的核心會話成長了 3%，數位廣告成長了 3%。

A real bright spot in the quarter was performance marketing, which grew 22%, led by exceptional e-commerce performance. It was great to see this area grow strongly after a couple of sluggish quarters and it highlights DDM's industry-leading ability to convert consumer interest into sales for our retail partners.

本季真正的亮點是績效行銷，成長了 22%，這主要得益於電子商務的出色表現。很高興看到該領域在經歷了幾個低迷的季度後實現強勁增長，這也凸顯了 DDM 在將消費者興趣轉化為零售合作夥伴銷售額方面的行業領先能力。

And then finally, licensing continued its strong growth led by our Open AI and Apple News partnerships. Together, these three revenue lines blended a 10% digital revenue growth above the range we were forecasting. Looking to 2025, we view all three digital revenue growth areas as healthy and strongly positioned. In aggregate, we're expecting 10%-plus digital revenue growth for the year. with high single-digit growth in Q1.

最後，在我們的 Open AI 和 Apple News 合作夥伴關係的推動下，授權業務持續強勁成長。這三條收入線合計實現了 10% 的數位收入成長，高於我們預測的範圍。展望 2025 年，我們認為所有三個數位收入成長領域都將健康且處於強勁地位。總體而言，我們預計今年的數位收入將成長 10% 以上。第一季實現高個位數成長。

A few factors contribute to a slightly lower first quarter growth in those high single digits. It's more challenging in January and February comps Easter, which is a key holiday for shifts this year into Q2 from Q1 last year and there's one less day due to the leap year. The second quarter conversely sets up stronger with easier comps in the Easter benefit.

有幾個因素導致第一季的成長率略低於這些高個位數。一月份和二月的挑戰性更大，因為復活節是今年從去年第一季進入第二季的重要節日，而且由於閏年，今年的假期比去年少了一天。相反，第二季度由於復活節的因素而表現更為強勁，且同店銷售額較去年同期有所回落。

On the digital advertising front, we're expecting mid-single-digit traffic growth for the year and mid-single-digit monetization growth. We'll also generate incremental revenue from the launch of Decipher Plus where we will be seeing third -- we'd be selling third-party inventory using our proprietary targeting technology. We're testing this with select advertisers this quarter, and we'll scale it up throughout the year. And then performance marketing and licensing should both grow solidly for the year.

在數位廣告方面，我們預期今年的流量成長率和貨幣化成長率均為中等個位數。我們還將透過推出 Decipher Plus 來獲得增量收入，我們將看到第三方——我們將使用我們專有的定位技術來銷售第三方庫存。我們正在本季與選定的廣告商一起測試此功能，並將在全年擴大規模。那麼，績效行銷和授權在今年都應該會穩定成長。

DDM continues to manage its cost structure thoughtfully as shown by the severance in the fourth quarter due to headcount reductions to reallocate resources. For the year, we're forecasting 40%-plus digital incremental EBITDA margins, which combined with 10% digital revenue growth and then 10% revenue declines in our Print segment, lead to our guide of $330 million to $350 million of total EBITDA, $300 million of total EBITDA.

DDM 繼續精心管理其成本結構，第四季度因裁員以重新分配資源而產生的遣散費就證明了這一點。我們預測今年的數位增量 EBITDA 利潤率將超過 40%，加上數位收入成長 10% 以及印刷部門營收下降 10%，因此我們預計總 EBITDA 為 3.3 億美元至 3.5 億美元，總 EBITDA 為 3 億美元。

One accounting note, as noted in the release, we will have a significant gain -- Barry, I hand it over to you one second. We have a significant gain in the first quarter of 2025 of approximately $36 million associated with a highly favorable lease buyout. Our adjusted EBITDA guidance excludes this gain.

一份會計說明，正如新聞稿中指出的那樣，我們將獲得可觀的收益 - 巴里，我把它交給你一秒鐘。由於租賃買斷十分有利，我們在 2025 年第一季獲得了約 3,600 萬美元的可觀收益。我們的調整後 EBITDA 指引不包括該收益。

Barry, I'll turn it over to you. We just got the question about capital allocation and how that changes in the context of our strong balance sheet.

巴里，我將把它交給你。我們剛剛被問到有關資本配置以及在我們強勁的資產負債表的背景下資本配置如何變化的問題。

All right. This is all very odd for me because you'll have to -- I've been -- did you hear my opening remarks?

好的。這一切對我來說都很奇怪，因為你必須——我一直——你聽到我的開場白了嗎？

We got your opening remarks up through Angi in the very beginning of DDM and then we sort of lost due when you were going through the quarterly growth rates of DDM starting that's where we lost you.

我們在 DDM 剛開始時就透過 Angi 聽到了您的開場白，然後，當您談到 DDM 的季度增長率時，我們就失去了您。

Nice. Yes. Well, technology, (inaudible) so about how many minutes in? Because I went on for about 20 minutes and then said he and heard nothing.

好的。是的。嗯，技術，（聽不清楚）大概要花多少分鐘？因為我講了大約 20 分鐘然後說他什麼也沒聽到。

I think the key would be to pivot to the capital allocation section and talk through thoughts on M&A and buyback because we didn't get to that, and that's --

我認為關鍵是轉向資本配置部分，並討論有關併購和回購的想法，因為我們還沒有討論到這一點，這就是--

This is all -- because we're not in the same room. So this ain't the easiest. But did I cover the turnaround of Angi and Dotdash?

這就是全部——因為我們不在同一個房間裡。所以這不是最簡單的。但是我是否報道過 Angi 和 Dotdash 的轉變？

Yes, yes, got through Angi and most of Dotdash, not entirely.

是的，是的，通過了 Angi 和大部分 Dotdash，但不是全部。

And did I talk about Angi spin?

我有沒有談過 Angi spin？

But we didn't get Angi spin.

但是我們並沒有得到 Angi 旋轉。

All right. Let me pick up there then. I'm sorry, everybody, but technology sales in just a moment, you kind of depend upon it. So whether you heard it or not, we spent those two years turning around businesses, which is why I froze everything. We didn't want to be distracted during this period.

好的。那麼讓我從那裡接你。各位，我很抱歉，但是技術銷售很快就變得依賴它了。所以不管你是否聽說，我們花了兩年時間扭轉業務，這就是我凍結一切的原因。我們不想在這段時間分心。

And as you certainly know about our how decades of spinning off companies or conglomerate -- that's an anticonglomerate. It's kind of like that concept, which I believe the businesses when they get to be a sufficient size, they ought to be spun off and be independent. There's nothing more further than IAC could do really for Angi, Joey and Jeff running the business. complete confidence in them. They've done a very good job in getting it to the state where it can begin to grow.

正如你們所知，我們幾十年來一直在剝離公司或企業集團，這是一種反企業集團。這有點像這樣的概念，我相信當企業達到足夠的規模時，它們就應該被剝離出來並獨立起來。對於經營業務的 Angi、Joey 和 Jeff 來說，IAC 能做的真的沒有了。對他們完全有信心。他們已經做了很好的工作，使植物達到了可以開始生長的狀態。

And also, Joey come to me and said, I really like a business of my own. I'd like my own store. And I I totally respect that and encourage that. And we had the vehicle to do so. It made no sense for us to keep Angi partially to have its own majority, but still be a public company, either we're in or we're out I think that it is a perfect time to do the spin. And I'm glad that I think it will happen on somebody correct me, but I think it's March 31 is the date that it will happen.

而且，喬伊 (Joey) 來找我說，我真的很喜歡自己的事業。我想要一間自己的商店。我完全尊重並鼓勵這一點。我們也有車輛可以這樣做。對我們來說，保留 Angi 部分股權以使其擁有多數股權但仍然是一家上市公司是沒有意義的，要么我們加入，要么我們退出，我認為這是進行分拆的最佳時機。我很高興，我認為這會發生，有人糾正我，但我認為 3 月 31 日是它發生的日期。

And so as I said before, I did freeze everything. We were burning cash in '22. We've gone from burning cash now having $352 million of cash flow this year. We purified the company. We've sold assets. We bought MGM before this period. I believe that MGM is -- I mean MGM it is run like a Paddock Philippe watch. It has superb management, no one will ever duplicate Las Vegas anywhere else in the world we have 40%-plus of the market. It cannot be disintermediated by any technology. There's nothing between it and its customer and serving its customers.

正如我之前所說，我確實凍結了所有東西。我們在22年就燒錢了。我們已經不再燒錢，今年的現金流有 3.52 億美元。我們淨化了公司。我們已經在出售資產。我們在此之前就收購了米高梅。我相信米高梅——我的意思是米高梅的運作方式就像帕多克·菲利普手錶一樣。它擁有一流的管理，沒有人能夠在世界任何其他地方複製拉斯維加斯，我們佔有 40％ 以上的市場份額。任何技術都無法取代它。它和客戶以及為客戶服務之間沒有任何關係。

As you know, these hotels run at 90%-plus capacity. And the future for MGM, building a $10 billion-plus resort in Japan, the only gaming resort in the entire country in Osaka, which will open -- let's take some years to build it, but is a great flag for MGM. It's going to plant other flags around the world. It's going to simplify itself over the next period. I think it's been complex to a little overly complex for people to understand. It's wildly undervalued.

如您所知，這些飯店的入住率均超過 90％。米高梅的未來是，在日本大阪建造一個投資超過 100 億美元的度假村，這是整個日本唯一的博彩度假村，它將要開業——雖然需要幾年的時間來建設，但對米高梅來說，這是一個偉大的旗幟。它還將在世界各地插上其他旗幟。在接下來的一段時間內，它將會變得更加簡化。我認為它有些複雜，甚至過於複雜，人們難以理解。它被嚴重低估了。

And I think that it's just a how lucky do you get to be able to have found a company at a time when it was in was in Las Vegas, we came upon it. It wasn't. We were able to buy in advantageously. It's bought back a lot of its stock. It will continue to do so. And I just couldn't -- I think the idea of having DDM in the position that DDM is in outperforming its competitors. I did -- I'm going to ask you one more question. Did I get to the thing of giving you the stats of the traffic, digital traffic at DDM.

我認為，你能在拉斯維加斯找到一家公司真是太幸運了，我們偶然發現了它。但事實並非如此。我們能夠以優惠的價格購買。它回購了大量股票。它將繼續這樣做。我只是不能——我認為讓 DDM 處於 DDM 所處的地位能夠勝過其競爭對手。是的──我要再問你一個問題。我是否能夠向您提供 DDM 的流量、數位流量的統計資料？

I think you were halfway through that when -- which is exactly when we lost you.

我想你已經完成了一半——就在那時我們失去了你。

All right. Well, good, halfway is really the worst of it. So let me go from the halfway back to the next halfway good. For six quarters, we went down 7%, 13%, 14%, 15%, 10%. Beginning in the fourth quarter of 23 plus 9, fourth quarter -- first quarter, 13%, then 12%, then 16% in the fourth quarter, just an out 10%. I mean, that's an incredible reversal. And DDM.

好的。好吧，很好，但一半確實是最糟糕的。那麼讓我從半程回到下一個半程就好了。六個季度以來，我們的利潤分別下降了 7%、13%、14%、15%、10%。從第四季開始，成長率為 23% 加 9，第四季比第一季成長了 13%，然後是 12%，第四季成長了 16%，剛好是 10%。我的意思是，這是一個令人難以置信的逆轉。還有 DDM。

So it is in -- it had to go through this difficult integration and transition also hit by the ad market itself, having a decline. But it is an excellent asset for us. The bedrock right now of IAC, DDM and MGM, plus we have -- obviously, you all know, our balance sheet is very strong.

所以它必須經歷艱難的整合和轉型，同時也受到廣告市場本身的打擊，導致其下滑。但這對我們來說是一筆寶貴的財富。目前，IAC、DDM 和 MGM 是基石，另外，我們還有——顯然，你們都知道，我們的資產負債表非常強勁。

As I said earlier, we I froze everything. It's me that we're not buying stock back during this period because I don't think we deserve to until we've gotten our businesses in shape and talking confidence about our business. I'm not going to talk about what we will do but I will talk about one thing, which is the fact that I did stop it, that stopping has ended. And I'm not going to foresee things because what I've just said, I hope is fairly obvious. But I hope you understand the reason I did stop it and wanted us to freeze and only pay attention to our businesses and getting them straightened out and getting the whole corporate structure straightened out.

正如我之前所說，我們凍結了一切。我決定在此期間不回購股票，因為我認為在我們的業務步入正軌並對我們的業務充滿信心之前，我們不值得這樣做。我不會談論我們將會做什麼，但我會談論一件事，那就是我確實阻止了它，這種阻止已經結束了。我不會預見任何事，因為我希望我剛才說的話已經相當明顯了。但我希望你們理解我停止這一切的原因，我希望我們凍結這一切，只專注於我們的業務，理順它們，理順整個公司結構。

We're now in a situation where that phase has finished. I think we are freshened by these recently announced events as far as what are we going to do with our capital. There are areas, I think, of DDM to invest in. There are all sorts of opportunities, whether it's buy, build, history of this company has been God-knows endless starts of buys of businesses.

我們現在的情況是這個階段已經結束了。我想，這些最近宣布的事件讓我們對如何運用我們的資本有了新的體會。我認為，DDM 有一些領域值得投資。有各種各樣的機會，無論是收購還是建設，這家公司的歷史就是天知道的無數次收購業務的開始。

And that landscape, while I think the Internet field is fairly covered, but we're going to look at anything that talks walks or whatever. And we're not anxious. We'll do this as we've done it before, tell us a good idea. And if we think it makes sense, we'll go forward with it. And we've -- at least our history has shown that in doing that, we've built assets in value. And that's what me and Chris and Russell Farscht, our Head of M&A, are dedicating themselves to do in addition to the work that we'll continue to do with our principal asset and our involvement with MGM. So okay, I hope still I'm with you after having now almost on this twice.

雖然我認為網路領域已經涵蓋了相當多的內容，但我們將專注於任何說到做到的事情。我們並不著急。我們會像以前一樣去做這件事，告訴我們一個好主意。如果我們認為有意義，我們就會繼續前進。而且至少我們的歷史表明，透過這樣做，我們已經累積了資產價值。這就是我、克里斯和我們的併購主管羅素·法什特 (Russell Farscht) 所致力於做的事情，此外，我們將繼續處理我們的主要資產和與米高梅的合作。好吧，我希望在經歷了兩次這樣的經歷之後，我仍然能和你在一起。

That was perfect. And you answered John's question well there, Barry.

那太完美了。巴里，你很好地回答了約翰的問題。

Eric Sheridan, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的艾瑞克‧謝裡丹 (Eric Sheridan)。

Maybe two, if I could. First, for the Angi team, understood on the pillar dynamic with respect to '25 going into '26. I wanted to if we get a little bit more color on what investors should expect in terms of some of the headwinds turning it to potential tailwinds for the business that we should be monitoring from the outside in, in terms of that transformation or call across those three pillars. And specifically, with the transition to a single product and platform, how to think about some of the integration dynamics of moving towards that what it might mean for sort of improving the quality overall in the platform. That would be number one.

如果可以的話，也許兩個。首先，對於 Angi 團隊來說，了解有關 25 年到 26 年的支柱動態。我想，我們能否更清楚地了解投資人應該期待什麼，以及一些不利因素如何轉變為業務的潛在順風，我們應該從外部監控這些因素，就這三大支柱的轉變或呼籲而言。具體來說，隨著向單一產品和平台的轉變，如何思考朝著這一方向轉變的一些整合動力，這對於提高平台整體品質意味著什麼。那將是最重要的。

And then Barry, maybe following up on your answer, great to have the opportunity to speak. IAC has changed over the years in terms of taking stakes in companies and continue having operating business. When you think about the framework you just laid out investing for the long term in IAC. How should we be thinking about what our priorities are with respect to operating business as opposed to maybe investing in businesses like we saw examples like MGM and Turo.

然後 Barry，也許可以跟進你的回答，很高興有機會發言。多年來，IAC 在入股公司和繼續經營業務方面發生了變化。當您考慮剛剛制定的 IAC 長期投資框架。我們應該如何思考，在經營業務方面，我們的優先事項是什麼，而不是像米高梅和 Turo 那樣投資企業。

So with your first question, Eric, I'm going to try and sum up a little bit what I said before, which is we have been progressively improving product and building our proprietary traffic back to growth our SEM -- propriety SEM has returned to growth. We expect our proprietary growth to move and improve through the year and get to growth in 2026. Consent and choice is in a big chunk out of our third-party business, but that business is now going to be stable going forward. So the two together get us to growth going forward.

所以對於你的第一個問題，Eric，我將嘗試總結我之前所說的內容，那就是我們一直在逐步改進產品並建立我們的專有流量以恢復成長，我們的專有 SEM 已經恢復成長。我們預計我們的專有成長將在今年內不斷提升，並在 2026 年實現成長。同意和選擇佔了我們第三方業務的很大一部分，但這項業務現在將會穩定下來。因此，兩者的結合將推動我們向前發展。

On the Pro side, our retention has improved materially. We're literally bringing 100 basis points more of the Pros active in -- we brought 700 basis points for of the Pros active in 2023 into 2024 compared to what we brought from '23.

從專業方面來看，我們的保留率有了實質的提升。我們實際上將活躍的專業人士的數量增加了 100 個基點——與 23 年相比，我們將 2023 年活躍的專業人士的數量帶到了 2024 年，增加了 700 個基點。

While our acquisition is coming down, and thus, we're not netting network growth yet, those forces will cross going forward, particularly with the incremental changes in customer experience. So we expect the Pro network to inflect the growth again as well. So the two of those things will combine. And that will take our trajectory back to growth in 2026.

雖然我們的收購正在減少，因此我們尚未實現網路成長，但這些力量將在未來交叉，特別是隨著客戶體驗的逐步變化。因此我們預計 Pro 網路也將再次推動成長。因此這兩者將會結合在一起。這將使我們在 2026 年重返成長軌道。

In terms of single Pro product, there's a couple of pieces to it. One is moving all of our pros to a single platform with a single product and pricing structure is going to allow us to run our operations far more efficiently, reduce time to market, reduce overhead and make our acquisition and marketing more efficient.

就單一 Pro 產品而言，它有幾個部分。一是將我們所有的專業人員轉移到一個具有單一產品和定價結構的單一平台上，這將使我們能夠更有效地運營，縮短產品上市時間，降低管理費用，並使我們的收購和營銷更加高效。

Secondly, it's going to -- as I said before, sunset, some pricing structures that's going to pave the way to grow our revenue per monetized transaction in the second half of the year, which will be another lift in our incremental progress back to growth.

其次，正如我之前所說，一些定價結構的取消將為我們在今年下半年增加每筆貨幣化交易的收入鋪平道路，這將是我們逐步恢復成長的另一個推動力。

In terms of integration risk, we've now done five migrations of a comparable size in Europe. We're pretty seasoned at this will likely take a little disruption, but we'll also get back Pros from the old product. We do it every time we do it in Europe. We've just -- this is basic operations for us. And so we expect, of course, there to be noise in the system, but we actually expect to come out better and move forward well there. I think I covered all the pieces of your question.

在整合風險方面，我們現在已經在歐洲完成了五次類似規模的遷移。我們對此相當有經驗，這可能會帶來一點混亂，但我們也會從舊產品中恢復優點。我們每次在歐洲做這件事時都會這麼做。我們只是——這對我們來說是基本的操作。當然，我們預計系統中會出現噪音，但我們實際上期望情況會變得更好，並順利向前發展。我想我已經涵蓋了您問題的全部內容。

I think that's very well said. Let's go to Barry.

我認為說得很好。我們去巴里吧。

Operating businesses, I mean we'll take it any way it comes. I believe, as I've said forever that once the business gets up to sufficient scale, it ought to be spun out and be independent and on a tone. I think companies that have multiple operating businesses and try to operate each of them. I think they do so. Less advantageously than they would have those companies were standing on their own. And we've as we look into the future of possibilities, I'm sure that we tell the operating businesses that we will operate for a period of time. But actually operate them for too long, I think probably they will have failed and we will dispose of them. If they succeed, we will spin them out.

經營業務，我的意思是，無論它以何種方式發生，我們都會接受。我相信，正如我一直說的那樣，一旦業務達到足夠的規模，就應該將其分拆出來，獨立並保持一定基調。我認為那些擁有多項營運業務的公司會嘗試經營每一項業務。我認為他們是這樣的。這些公司如果單打獨鬥的話，就會面臨更大的不利局面。當我們展望未來的可能性時，我確信我們會告訴營運企業我們將會運作一段時間。但實際上如果操作它們太久，我想它們可能會失效，然後我們就會將它們處理掉。如果他們成功了，我們就會將他們分拆出去。

Jason Holstein, Oppenheimer.

奧本海默的傑森‧霍爾斯坦 (Jason Holstein)。

Two questions. Maybe just first for Barry and then the second is a follow-up for Joe and Chris. Maybe I'll ask them in that order. So just Barry, I think one of the questions we keep getting from investors was would be how would you characterize IC kind of post now the Angi spin? Are you poised to lean more into multiyear beds? Or are you more focused on realizing the current beds and returning kind of the maximum amount of kind of cash and value to shareholders. So just let's start with that question. Then just a follow-up on Meredith.

兩個問題。也許對巴里來說只是第一部，然後第二部對喬和克里斯來說是後續。也許我會照這個順序問他們。所以 Barry，我認為投資者不斷向我們提出的一個問題是，您如何描述 IC 之後的 Angi 旋轉？您是否準備好更傾向於多年生床位？或者您更專注於實現當前的床位並向股東返還最大金額的現金和價值。那我們就從這個問題開始吧。接下來是對梅雷迪斯的後續報導。

Well, you'll see what we do in the next period. As I say, I stopped us from using our capital to return it to shareholders for the reasons I've said before, that period has ended. And so it's always going to be a balance. You take the first opportunity of investing in your current businesses? I think there's a real opportunity inside DDM in all sorts of areas. And I think that may take some capital. I think also, again, we have a clean slate. We don't have any drag on us. We don't have any problem, so to speak. All of that stuff has been solved. So all of our attention can go to seeking new opportunities, and they always come if you're -- I'm not inpatient and I'm not patient. So we will see. It will be clearly a mix between returning capital to shareholders and seeking opportunity.

好吧，您將會看到我們在下一階段會做什麼。正如我所說，我阻止我們使用我們的資本將其返還給股東，原因我之前已經說過了，那個時期已經結束了。所以它總是會保持平衡。您會抓住第一個機會投資目前的業務嗎？我認為 DDM 內部各個領域都存在著真正的機會。我認為這可能需要一些資金。我也認為，我們又有了一個新的開始。我們沒有任何拖累。可以這麼說，我們沒有任何問題。所有這些問題都已經解決了。因此，我們所有的注意力都可以用來尋找新的機會，如果你有耐心，新的機會總會到來的──我並不急躁，也沒有耐心。我們將拭目以待。這顯然是向股東返還資本和尋求機會的結合。

And then, Joey, Chris, now that digital revenue is growing double digit at Meredith, digital. What are your plans to transition to focus on top of funnel and fan ways to further leverage content and drive more engagement and impressions. And how do you -- and do you think that can accelerate revenue over the next two years?

然後，喬伊、克里斯，現在 Meredith 的數位收入正在以兩位數的速度成長。您有何計劃，將重點轉向管道和粉絲方式，以進一步利用內容並推動更多的參與和印象。您認為這能在未來兩年內增加收入嗎？

Yes. Thanks, Jason. We always look at the business as advancing two key drivers in parallel. Traffic as you're talking about and monetization, quantity and price. For traffic, there's definitely top of funnel elements a few key strategic priorities. One, as we talked about in the letter, and we talked about previously is direct consumer relationships, where we engender traffic through new products, e-mail and marketing. Another is continuing to offer premium content behind our industry-leading brands that we optimize for different platforms. So think Apple News, Google, Discover, social media, things like that.

是的。謝謝，傑森。我們始終將業務視為同時推進兩個關鍵驅動因素。正如您所談論的，流量和貨幣化、數量和價格。對於流量來說，漏斗頂部的元素肯定有幾個關鍵的策略重點。一方面，正如我們在信中以及之前所討論的那樣，我們與消費者建立直接關係，透過新產品、電子郵件和行銷來吸引流量。另一個是繼續提供我們行業領先品牌背後的優質內容，並針對不同的平台進行最佳化。所以想想 Apple News、Google、Discover、社群媒體等等。

And then the last one, which we mentioned a little bit earlier, is D/Cipher Plus. In our partnership with OpenAI and also on our own, we've mapped comparable third-party sites that have the same signal of intent that the cipher utilizes from the signals developed on our own properties to target and deliver ads. With the launch of D/Cipher Plus, we will now be offering our advertisers the ability to increase their buy by using our target platform.

最後一個，我們之前提到過，是 D/Cipher Plus。在我們與 OpenAI 的合作中，以及在我們自己的幫助下，我們已經映射了類似的第三方網站，這些網站具有相同的意圖信號，該密碼利用我們自己開發的信號來定位和投放廣告。隨著 D/Cipher Plus 的推出，我們現在將為我們的廣告商提供透過使用我們的目標平台來增加購買量的能力。

We believe this will provide additional value and utility to advertisers while also opening up new budgets for DDM. We're ramping this up steadily and believe it can be a large and attractive business. On the monetization side of the equation, there are three core elements. -- continue to be best-in-class in premium direct sales, and that's all about performance, service, et cetera, for our advertisers. The second is improve and continue to broaden our programmatic efforts to take advantage of the auction market. and then continue to innovate and lead the market on performance marketing. We felt great about the last quarter with 22% growth, keep it chugging.

我們相信這將為廣告商提供額外的價值和效用，同時也為 DDM 開闢新的預算。我們正在穩步推進這項業務，並相信這可以成為一項規模龐大且具吸引力的事業。在貨幣化方面，有三個核心要素。 ——繼續在優質直銷領域保持一流水平，這對我們的廣告商來說都與業績、服務等等有關。第二是改進並持續拓寬我們的專案努力，以利用拍賣市場。並在效果行銷上不斷創新、引領市場。我們對上個季度 22% 的成長率感到非常滿意，並將繼續保持這種勢頭。

Thus, drive as much traffic and growth rates that you asked about, our guide is 10%-plus digital revenue growth this year and going forward. But we believe in the power of our platform and the incremental growth opportunities it provides. So we will keep pushing.

因此，為了推動您所詢問的流量和成長率，我們的指導是今年及未來數位收入成長 10% 以上。但我們相信我們平台的力量和它提供的增量成長機會。因此我們會繼續努力。

James Heaney, Jefferies.

傑富瑞的詹姆斯希尼 (James Heaney)。

Can you break down the results at Care.com. Is there any additional detail to get divergent rules between enterprise and consumer? And what you expect going forward? And then I just had a follow-up question.

您能在 Care.com 上分解結果嗎？是否有其他細節來獲得企業和消費者之間的不同規則？您對未來有何期望？然後我有一個後續問題。

Yes. So we broke out carriers in segment this quarter. This is a business we bought in 2020 and have spent a lot of time and energy rebuilding the platform in advancing it, and we will talk about further efforts there. It has two main business lines, it's consumer business. We're individuals and families directly subscribe to Care.com to be matched with caregivers and find home care. And then it's enterprise business where companies pay care to provide benefits to their employees.

是的。因此，我們本季按細分市場細分了營運商。這是我們在 2020 年收購的一項業務，我們投入了大量的時間和精力重建平台並推進它，我們將在那裡討論進一步的努力。它有兩條主要業務線，一是消費者業務。我們是個人和家庭直接訂閱 Care.com 來匹配照顧者並尋找家庭護理。然後是企業業務，公司會注意為員工提供福利。

The companies can purchase backup care days that employees can use to get emergency care for their child, their senior if needed. They can access specialists to help support different needs at home to their family and then also pay for their employees to have full access to the Care.com marketplace.

公司可以購買備用護理日，以便員工在需要時為其子女或長輩提供緊急護理。他們可以聘請專家來幫助滿足家人的不同家庭需求，然後支付員工費用以獲得對 Care.com 市場的全面訪問權限。

The last few years of care have been ups and downs, driven by COVID, then followed by post-pandemic adjustment. The enterprise business experienced a major boost during the pandemic as companies sought to help employees manage care needs with different work arrangements and get them back in the office. That leveled out post pandemic.

過去幾年的護理工作起起伏伏，一方面是由於新冠疫情，另一方面是疫情後的調整。疫情期間，企業業務經歷了大幅增長，因為公司試圖透過不同的工作安排來幫助員工管理護理需求並讓他們重返辦公室。疫情過後，這一數字趨於平穩。

Right now, the enterprise business has a nice tailwind behind it. As employer provided support for care needs is increasingly becoming a standard benefit sort of table stakes in some ways similar to health insurance. The enterprise line grew last year and should continue to be a solid performer going forward and we're one of the real leaders in that category.

目前，企業業務有著良好的順風動能。雇主提供的照護需求支援正日益成為一種標準福利，某種程度上類似於健康保險。企業產品線去年實現了成長，並且在未來將繼續保持強勁表現，我們是該類別的真正領導者之一。

On the consumer side, we saw a greater macro tailwind in the '22 period than we realized and it as some deficiencies in the core product experience. Consumer declined last year as we lapped challenging comps, struggled on marketing and the product lagged on conversion and renewals. New CEO, Brad Wilson and his team have been actively working to improve the product, focused on areas like messaging and matching, and we believe the impacts will be seen throughout this year. It will be a slow return to growth given a subscription product and the nature of ramping back up and reversing trends. But we love Care.com's positioning as the industry leader with the most care seekers and caregivers in the market.

在消費者方面，我們看到 22 年時期的宏觀順風比我們意識到的要大，但核心產品體驗也存在一些缺陷。去年，由於我們面臨嚴峻的競爭狀況、行銷困難以及產品轉換和更新滯後，消費市場出現下滑。新任執行長布拉德威爾森 (Brad Wilson) 和他的團隊一直在積極致力於改進產品，專注於訊息和匹配等領域，我們相信其影響將在今年顯現。考慮到訂閱產品以及恢復成長和扭轉趨勢的性質，這將是一個緩慢的恢復成長的過程。但我們喜歡 Care.com 作為行業領導者的定位，它擁有市場上最多的護理尋求者和護理人員。

We also know that consumer demand is there. The company recently released its annual state of the industry report and the challenges of finding good child in senior care are only growing as are the costs. So with an improved experience and better marketing, we think the team can seize on that opportunity and return to growth.

我們也知道有消費者需求。該公司最近發布了年度行業狀況報告，發現尋找優秀的老年護理兒童的挑戰越來越大，成本也越來越高。因此，我們認為，透過改善體驗和更好的行銷，團隊可以抓住機會並恢復成長。

And then James, next question?

然後詹姆斯，下一個問題？

Yes, great. Just one quickly on the corporate costs. Just curious what's driving that elevated level in 2025. And then how should we think about that on a normalized run rate going forward?

是的，太棒了。關於公司成本，我們只想簡單說一下。只是好奇是什麼推動了 2025 年這一水準的提升。那麼，我們該如何考慮今後標準化的運行率呢？

Yes. We guided, obviously, a much higher number this year. there's a number of nonrecurring things going on in corporate this year. The first are associated with Joey's creation from IAC and movement to Angi. His six year consulting agreement will be recognized at the time of the Angi spin all at once. Next or costs associated with the Angi spin, tax, legal, filing, et cetera.

是的。顯然，今年我們預計的數字要高得多。今年公司發生了一些非經常性的事情。第一個與 Joey 從 IAC 的創作和向 Angi 的移動有關。他的六年諮詢協議將在 Angi 旋轉時一次性得到認可。接下來是與 Angi 旋轉、稅收、法律、歸檔等相關的成本。

Additionally, we have legacy matters that are hitting the P&L this year, such as ongoing litigation relating to the Match Group separation that will drive expenses this year. And then finally, as I talked about in the prior quarter, we have taken actions to streamline costs at corporate, and that's created onetime expenses this year.

此外，我們還有一些遺留問題會對今年的損益表產生影響，例如與 Match Group 分離有關的正在進行的訴訟，這將增加今年的開支。最後，正如我在上一季談到的那樣，我們已經採取行動精簡公司成本，這在今年產生了一次性費用。

I'd also flag when you look at '24, the run rate costs were artificially masked and the reported number was lower due to a $10 million out-of-period insurance payment that we received in '24. So in sum, we are incurring roughly $50 million of nonrecurring costs this year that will not be in the cost structure in '26 and beyond and we'll provide more clarity on that as we move forward.

我還要指出的是，當您查看'24年時，運行率成本被人為掩蓋，報告的數字較低，因為我們在'24年收到了1000萬美元的期外保險賠付。總而言之，我們今年的非經常性成本約為 5,000 萬美元，這些成本將不計入 26 年及以後的成本結構中，我們將在未來提供更明確的資訊。

Ross Sandler, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的羅斯桑德勒。

Great. Barry. I guess a question for you is how involved you want to be in the day-to-day at IAC and how do you feel about the management structure at the top with Joey moving over to Angi. And then, Chris, a follow-up on the opportunity for Decipher Plus and non-owned and operated inventory. Could that be material in '25? And what kind of impact could that have on profitability at DDM?

偉大的。巴里。我想問您的一個問題是，您想在多大程度上參與 IAC 的日常工作，以及當 Joey 轉到 Angi 後，您對高層的管理結構有何看法。然後，克里斯，跟進 Decipher Plus 和非自有和經營庫存的機會。這在 25 年會成為現實嗎？這會對 DDM 的獲利能力產生什麼樣的影響？

All right. I'll start quickly. I have great confidence in my colleagues in terms of the day-to-day. Chris Halpin and Russell are both going to help me with that. But we really have we have one prime operating business, which has superb management does not need us day-to-day. And I think that again, I think this is a group that just by the nature of the change and all of these things, I think, is fresh and eager. And I'm going to do what I've always done, hopefully stimulate the process, drive people a little crazy and pay attention to the things that I think are important, which obviously -- obviously too much today. I don't know why, but whatever anyway, obviously, it involves capital allocation and seeking out new opportunities.

好的。我就趕緊開始。我對我的同事們的日常工作非常有信心。Chris Halpin 和 Russell 都會幫助我。但我們確實有一個主要的營運業務，它擁有卓越的管理，不需要我們日常管理。我再次認為，我認為這個群體就變化的性質以及所有這些事情而言，是新鮮而熱切的。我將繼續做我一直在做的事情，希望能促進這一進程，讓人們有點瘋狂，並專注於那些我認為重要的事情，顯然——今天顯然太多了。我不知道為什麼，但無論如何，顯然這涉及資本配置和尋找新的機會。

Yes. And then, Ross, D/Cipher Plus we're excited about. We think it can be a powerful growth driver. It really increases the company's access to two types of inventory that advertisers want. The first is look like premium inventory in our core categories, food, health, home, others where we see consumer intent at scale.

是的。然後，我們對 Ross、D/Cipher Plus 感到非常興奮。我們認為它可以成為強大的成長動力。這確實增加了公司獲得廣告商想要的兩種類型庫存的機會。首先是看起來像我們核心類別中的優質庫存，食品，健康，家居和其他我們能夠大規模看到消費者意圖的類別。

So DDM is often limited by inventory and our own premium pricing on highly performing inventory in these categories. And we can use D/Cipher Plus to identify similar performing inventory on those third-party sites and buy it efficiently. This inventory today is being monetized on programmatic platforms at lower rates, where current buyers lack the powerful intent-driven signal that D/Cipher provides to DDM.

因此，DDM 經常受到庫存以及我們自己對這些類別中表現優異的庫存的溢價的限制。我們可以使用 D/Cipher Plus 來識別第三方網站上表現類似的庫存並有效地購買。目前，這些庫存正在程序化平台上以較低的利率實現貨幣化，而當前的買家缺乏 D/Cipher 為 DDM 提供的強大的意圖驅動訊號。

The second set of inventory is undervalued, yet performing impressions in our categories. So we have core advertisers who are being priced out of DDM inventory because the performance in CPIs are so high. And they're looking for some lower price volume to be included in their buys. We can do that and still have the D/Cipher performance guarantee. So think about it as adding both elements of the price curve. Because of these factors, we believe we can substantially increase our supply of impressions and do it at attractive margins while providing our advertisers with exceptional performance. We're ramping this offering up across '25, selling it into accounts and believe it can grow rapidly on a revenue basis. .

第二組庫存被低估，但在我們的類別中表現良好。因此，我們的核心廣告客戶因 CPI 表現太高而無法負擔 DDM 庫存費用。他們正在尋找一些價格較低且數量可觀的商品來進行購買。我們可以做到這一點，並且仍然可以保證 D/Cipher 的性能。因此，可以將其視為將價格曲線的兩個元素相加。由於這些因素，我們相信我們可以大幅增加我們的展示次數，並以具有吸引力的利潤率實現這一目標，同時為我們的廣告商提供卓越的表現。我們將在 25 年內加大此產品的銷售力度，並將其出售給客戶，並相信其收入能夠迅速成長。。

On the incremental margin point, we said we're targeting 40-plus digital incremental EBITDA or adjusted EBITDA margins. We believe that strikes the right balance between investment and products and content on the one hand and profit growth on the other. And D/Cipher Plus, we believe will be supportive of those types of incremental margins.

關於增量利潤點，我們表示我們的目標是 40 以上的數字增量 EBITDA 或調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率。我們相信，一方面，投資、產品和內容與另一方面的利潤成長之間取得了適當的平衡。我們相信 D/Cipher Plus 將支援這些類型的增量利潤。

Justin Patterson, KeyBanc.

賈斯汀·帕特森，KeyBanc。

Great. I wanted to hit on Jason's Dotdash question in a different way. What do you see as the key steps to grow traffic more and eliminate the middleman. And then as you execute on these initiatives, how might the financial profile of the business differ versus what we see today?

偉大的。我想以不同的方式來解答 Jason 的 Dotdash 問題。您認為增加流量和消除中間商的關鍵步驟是什麼？然後，當你執行這些計劃時，業務的財務狀況與我們今天看到的情況相比有何不同？

Thanks, Jason -- Justin. So the direct-to-consumer effort is one that Neil and team have been driving for aisle, and it's an offensive plan. We know our brands are exceptional. We know they're trusted and we know they're sought after by consumers. We've also talked for a few quarters about our efforts to expand our content to as many platforms as possible to engage our customers and to grow our touch points with consumers to be able to interact with it directly.

謝謝，傑森——賈斯汀。因此，直接面向消費者的行銷是 Neil 和他的團隊一直致力於推動的一項舉措，這是一個進攻性計劃。我們知道我們的品牌是卓越的。我們知道他們是值得信賴的並且受到消費者的追捧。我們還在幾個季度中討論了將內容擴展到盡可能多的平台以吸引客戶並增加與消費者的接觸點以便能夠直接與消費者互動的努力。

Some of that has been through e-mail, marketing, video, social media and also live events, which have worked very well from both an engagement and a monetization perspective. This year, we're looking to continue to invest in these areas and also roll out new products initially centered on people and our industry-leading food brands to engage consumers directly and then further enhance loyalty, which drives even deeper engagement and repeat engagement.

其中一些是透過電子郵件、行銷、影片、社群媒體和現場活動進行的，從參與度和貨幣化的角度來看，這些方式都非常有效。今年，我們希望繼續在這些領域進行投資，並推出以人為本的新產品和我們行業領先的食品品牌，以直接吸引消費者，然後進一步提高忠誠度，從而推動更深入的參與和重複參與。

These products, which will be providing more information as we go, take advantage of video, personalization, utility and our breadth of content and storytelling. And we think we're going to offer experiences in these categories that no one else is today. With respect to financial impact, the monetization models are similar. And so we don't view them -- we view them as advancing and not dilutive to our overall financial efforts to DDM.

這些產品將利用影片、個人化、實用性以及我們豐富的內容和故事敘述能力，提供更多的資訊。我們認為，我們將在這些類別中提供其他人目前無法提供的體驗。就財務影響而言，貨幣化模型是相似的。因此，我們並不認為它們會促進而不是削弱我們對 DDM 的整體財務努力。

Youssef Squali, Truist Securities.

Truist Securities 的 Youssef Squali。

One question for Chris and one for Barry, please. So Chris, back to D/Cipher now that you've integrated OpenAI tech in there. Can you maybe talk about the impact on KPIs that you've seen like conversion, at pricing, et cetera? And how much of that is left in your view? I'm not talking about D/Cipher Plus, just D/Cipher on the owned and operated.

請問克里斯和巴里各一個問題。所以 Chris，既然您已經在 D/Cipher 中整合了 OpenAI 技術，那就回到 D/Cipher 吧。您能否談談它對 KPI 的影響，例如轉換率、定價等等？您認為還剩下多少呢？我不是說 D/Cipher Plus，只是談論擁有和營運的 D/Cipher。

And then, Barry, I guess now that I see -- or now that Angi is going to be spun off, how do you see IAC engagement with MGM post that? Does that compel you to want to do more in that category. And if so, how there have been a bunch of news coming out, BetMGMs, I think other JV partner Entain seems to have had some changes at the top. So just how do you think about that opportunity now that you seem to have gotten some flexibility in your corporate structure?

然後，巴里，我想現在我明白了——或者現在 Angi 將被剝離，您如何看待 IAC 與米高梅的合作？這是否迫使你想在該類別中做更多的事情？如果是這樣，那麼為什麼會出現這麼多新聞呢？那麼，既然現在您的公司結構似乎已經獲得了一些靈活性，您如何看待這個機會？

BD, do you want to go first?

BD，你想先走嗎？

Yes, sure. I see it as what I've said before, which is I think MGM is in excellent shape, excellent operating results and superb management team. MGM is going to continue to opportunistically. Certainly, it's been buying back its stock, will continue to do so, knowing how undervalued it is, which will increase our ownership. We may increase our ownership.

是的，當然。正如我之前所說，我認為米高梅的狀況非常好，經營績效優異，管理團隊也非常優秀。米高梅將繼續抓住機會。當然，它一直在回購股票，並將繼續這樣做，因為我們知道它的估值有多低，這將增加我們的所有權。我們可能會增加我們的所有權。

As I said before, I consider it to be a forever asset. Conditions, of course, possibly could change, but I can't fathom that. And I think it's in -- I also said earlier, I think we'll see it be something that is somewhat less complex going forward. But I just think it's ours. It's never going away.

正如我之前所說，我認為它是一項永久的資產。當然，情況可能會改變，但我無法理解。而且我認為——我之前也說過，我認為我們會看到它在未來變得不那麼複雜。但我只是認為它是我們的。它永遠不會消失。

And then Youssef, with respect to D/Cipher, -- we've talked before about the case studies that we've executed with our advertisers, and we have over 30 case studies that prove it out. What's interesting is we target or optimize different metrics based on what the advertisers' goals are in the given campaign. And as you know, D/Cipher today is all premium direct campaigns. So for some advertisers, that's click-through.

然後 Youssef，關於 D/Cipher——我們之前談過我們與廣告商一起執行的案例研究，我們有超過 30 個案例研究可以證明這一點。有趣的是，我們根據廣告主在給定廣告活動中的目標來定位或優化不同的指標。如您所知，D/Cipher 目前全部都是優質直接活動。對一些廣告商來說，這就是點擊率。

For others, it's efficiency. For others, it's actually sales conversion and then some, it's in-store visits. We have -- we are quite confident we've outperformed in all these case studies, cookies and then blow away non-cookie-based solutions. We've seen the -- we talked about this last quarter that campaigns that or orders that include D/Cipher are over -- provide over half of the direct digital revenue in DDM. That trend has continued as has -- we said last quarter that orders with D/Cipher are over 50% larger than orders without D/Cipher. And that trend will continue.

對其他人來說，這就是效率。對於其他人來說，這實際上是銷售轉化，然後是店內訪問。我們非常有信心，我們在所有這些案例研究中都表現出色，超越了基於 cookie 的解決方案，並且超越了非基於 cookie 的解決方案。我們已經看到——我們在上個季度討論過這一點，包括 D/Cipher 在內的活動或訂單已經結束——提供了 DDM 中一半以上的直接數位收入。這一趨勢一直持續下去——我們上個季度說過，使用 D/Cipher 的訂單比不使用 D/Cipher 的訂單多 50% 以上。而且這種趨勢還會持續下去。

It is an important feature in an overall direct advertising campaign. We also are thrilled that being able to integrate OpenAI's technology, we can utilize video and images in our targeting, in our scoring for even better contextual performance, and we expect to continue and advance that.

這是整個直接廣告活動中的重要特徵。我們也很高興能夠整合 OpenAI 的技術，我們可以利用影片和影像來進行定位和評分，從而獲得更好的情境效能，我們希望繼續推進這項技術。

And Youssef, on your question on BetMGM, this is Joey now. The -- you saw the announcements from BetMGM a week or two ago, nice -- really nice momentum in the business. The things we were talking about on the product side for a while, they talked about how that's materialized into the business. And MGM and BetMGM both have had a great relationship with Entain, both at the CEO and the Chairperson level with Stella David. And so we wouldn't expect anything to change there.

尤素夫，關於您關於 BetMGM 的問題，我是喬伊。您在一兩週前就看到了 BetMGM 發布的公告，業務發展勢頭非常好。我們在產品方面談論的事情，他們談論的是如何將其轉化為業務。MGM 和 BetMGM 都與 Entain 保持良好的關係，無論是執行長還是董事長級別，Stella David 都與 Entain 保持著良好的關係。因此我們不希望那裡發生任何改變。

Nick Jones, Citizens JMP.

尼克瓊斯 (Nick Jones)，公民 JMP。

I guess just a couple on learnings from AI, Angi's focused on improving the questioning and matching. And in 2025, there's an increased focus on kind of Agentic AI. As you think about the kind of energy playbook going forward, is that going to play a role in kind of improving matching, I guess the same question for Care.com.

我想這只是從人工智慧中學到的幾點，Angi 專注於改進提問和配對。到 2025 年，人們將更加關注 Agentic AI。當您考慮未來的能源策略時，它是否會在改善匹配方面發揮作用，我想對於 Care.com 來說這也是同樣的問題。

Yes, I'll start. Our view is yes, on improving matching. Jeff talked about that a little bit in his letter. I think I've said for a while, and we're not sure whether this happens or not, but I said for a while that one of the best things that could happen to Angi and Angi's user interface would be if consumers adopt conversational UI.

是的，我先開始了。我們的觀點是肯定的，可以改善配對。傑夫在信中稍微談到了這一點。我想我已經說過一段時間了，我們不確定這是否會發生，但我說過一段時間，如果消費者採用對話式使用者介面，那麼 Angi 和 Angi 使用者介面可能遇到的最好的事情之一就是。

Obviously, they're doing that to some or a significant extent with ChatGPT and similar. But that's the ideal UI for us to get the right information from consumers about a job. And of course, the better information we get about a job, the better matching we can do. And then on top of that AI is better technology for sorting data to allow for better matching. But if we can get that conversational UI adopted broadly and consumers are comfortable with that, I think that, that is net very positive for Angi and the user experience there.

顯然，他們正在透過 ChatGPT 和類似產品在一定程度上或很大程度上實現這一點。但這是我們從消費者那裡獲取有關工作的正確資訊的理想用戶介面。當然，我們獲得的有關工作的資訊越多，我們能做的配對就越好。除此之外，人工智慧還是一種更好的資料排序技術，可以實現更好的匹配。但如果我們能夠廣泛採用對話式使用者介面，而消費者對此感到滿意，我認為這對 Angi 及其使用者體驗來說都是非常有利的。

Yes, I would just say, effectively, that becomes Agentic AI, right, where we're effectively serving as the agent we're matching with the Pro. And so that's where we see this going as we leverage those tools and technology.

是的，我只想說，實際上，這變成了 Agentic AI，對吧，我們實際上充當了與 Pro 匹配的代理。這就是我們在利用這些工具和技術時所看到的情況。

Yes. And Nick, I'd just say broadly across the portfolio, we said this for a while, where you have proprietary data sets, the application of AI optimization and analysis, you will have -- it will enhance things like matching on our marketplaces, be it Angi, Care, Vivian, elsewhere. And we are seeing those applications. And then secondly, onboarding, sign-ups, service request generation, nurse information at Vivian, all of these open information entry activities as well as classic customer service functions, you can see where the puck is going due to the AI opportunities. And do you have another question?

是的。尼克，我想廣泛地說，在整個投資組合中，我們說過一段時間，如果你有專有數據集，人工智能優化和分析的應用，你將擁有——它將增強我們市場上的匹配功能，無論是 Angi、Care、Vivian 還是其他地方。我們正在看到這些應用。其次，入職、註冊、服務請求生成、Vivian 的護士信息，所有這些開放的信息輸入活動以及經典的客戶服務功能，你都可以看到由於人工智能的機會，冰球將走向何方。您還有其他問題嗎？

Tom Champion, Piper Sandler.

湯姆·查皮恩、派珀·桑德勒。

Thanks. I guess, Chris, I'd love to hear a little bit more about the verticals within DDM and just maybe the trends that unfolded in 4Q and what you're seeing thus far. You made an interesting comment on digital ad revenue taking place via spend commitments and maybe that portion overlaps with D/Cipher. And so with D/Cipher seemingly growing well, I'm kind of curious if you have more revenue visibility. Hopefully, that makes sense. Maybe just a final question for Joey, if I can. Joey, I think you ran the search business way back when. And I'd just be curious, as you have observed OpenAI and search evolve. What do you think about the future of search broadly?

謝謝。克里斯，我想多聽一些關於 DDM 內部垂直行業的情況，以及第四季度出現的趨勢和您迄今為止看到的情況。您對透過支出承諾產生的數位廣告收入發表了有趣的評論，也許這部分與 D/Cipher 重疊。因此，由於 D/Cipher 似乎發展良好，我很好奇您的收入是否具有更高的可見度。希望這是有意義的。如果可以的話，我只想問喬伊最後一個問題。喬伊，我想你很久以前就經營過搜尋業務。我只是很好奇，正如你所觀察到的 OpenAI 和搜尋的發展。您對搜尋的未來有什麼看法？

That's a big one.

這是一個大問題。

Just wanted to slip in there, Tom, right?

只是想溜進去，湯姆，對吧？

Why don't you go first, Chris. Why don't you answer that question?

克里斯，你為什麼不先走呢？為什麼不回答這個問題？

Yes, that's fine. I'll be pointy-headed, and then we can go to the big concepts. So Tom, a few things. We describe the ad market as fine right now. The -- we definitely saw the momentum pick back up after the political freeze. People broadly -- or sorry, advertisers, agencies broadly, I think we'd say are more short term in their commitments, move quickly, but they've got things to sell and brands to build, and we're seeing that. Across categories, no major trends that we would note from the past. We've got clearly health, home, food and beverage, finance, others. We'd love to see some momentum return in finance over time. Health is fine, and we'll continue to monitor how the economy grows.

是的，很好。我會講清楚，然後我們就可以討論大概念了。那麼湯姆，有幾件事。我們認為目前的廣告市場良好。我們確實看到了政治凍結之後勢頭的回升。總的來說，人們——或者抱歉，廣告商、代理商，我認為我們會說他們的承諾更短期，行動更快，但他們有東西要賣，有品牌要打造，我們看到了這一點。在所有類別中，我們沒有註意到過去的主要趨勢。我們顯然有健康、家居、食品和飲料、金融和其他領域。我們希望看到隨著時間的推移，金融領域能夠出現一些勢頭的恢復。健康狀況良好，我們將繼續關注經濟成長。

D/Cipher plays in the direct premium advanced sell area. Our goal is to roll it into more through product enhancements into more on-demand ad buying, and that's something that the team is working on and be able to serve advertisers in both places. So we are constructive on the current ad market, but cautious as always, given the geopolitical volatility and everything that has been a hallmark of the last few years.

D/Cipher 在直接優質高級銷售領域發揮作用。我們的目標是透過產品增強將其推廣到更多的按需廣告購買，這是團隊正在努力實現的目標，並且能夠為兩個地方的廣告商提供服務。因此，我們對當前的廣告市場持建設性態度，但考慮到地緣政治的動盪以及過去幾年發生的一切，我們仍一如既往地保持謹慎。

Yes. So I'll answer a little bit anecdotally and then maybe broader. But as I start searches now. And as many people I know start searches now and increasing share is certainly going to the AI platforms. And that's because it's a good, efficient experience, and I expect that experience to continue to gain share. It's a meaningful evolution from the ten blue links, and we've been looking for that meaningful evolution to the ten blue links for a long time. And I think that is a profound advancement. I think that one of the keys in that is those user interfaces, whether they're voice or the sort of AI conversational thing that we're used to have space for fewer answers.

是的。因此，我會先從一些軼事的角度來回答，然後再做更廣泛的回答。但當我現在開始搜尋時。我知道現在很多人開始進行搜索，而越來越多的份額肯定會流向人工智慧平台。這是因為這是一種良好、有效率的體驗，我希望這種體驗能繼續獲得認可。這是十個藍色連結的一次有意義的演變，我們一直在尋找十個藍色連結的有意義的演變。我認為這是一個巨大的進步。我認為其中一個關鍵點是使用者介面，無論是語音還是我們習慣的那種人工智慧對話，它們都為較少的答案留有餘地。

And that means that what's going to be important there, and we think about that in the context of IAC and DDM and in the context of Care and in the context of Angi is you got to be the best in the category with the best content. And for those, I think you're in a very good position. And if you're further into the tail, I think that's a much harder position. And so I think that these models or the LLMs and those user interfaces continue to take share for a while and then sort of concentrate audience around the very best in a more meaningful way.

這意味著，什麼是最重要的，我們在 IAC 和 DDM 的背景下，在 Care 的背景下，在 Angi 的背景下考慮這一點，你必須成為該類別中擁有最佳內容的人。對於這些，我認為你的處境非常有利。如果你進一步陷入尾部，我認為這會是一個更困難的位置。因此，我認為這些模型或 LLM 和那些使用者介面會在一段時間內繼續佔據份額，然後以更有意義的方式將觀眾集中在最好的事物上。

Thank you. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, operator, and everyone.

謝謝。謝謝你，湯姆。謝謝接線員，謝謝大家。

Thank you all for a decade or more of these, and good luck from here.

謝謝你們十多年來的支持，祝你們好運。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. We thank you all for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines, and have a wonderful day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝大家參加今天的演講。現在您可以斷開連接，享受美好的一天。