Angi Inc (ANGI) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the IAC and Angi Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Christopher Halpin, Executive Vice President, CFO and COO of IAC. Please go ahead.

歡迎參加 IAC 和 Angi 2023 年第二季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意此事件正在被記錄。我現在將會議交給 IAC 執行副總裁、首席財務官兼首席運營官 Christopher Halpin。請繼續。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Christopher Halpin here, and welcome to the IAC and Angi Inc. Second Quarter Earnings Call. Joining me today is Joey Levin, CEO of IAC and CEO and Chairman of Angi Inc.

謝謝大家，大家早上好。 Christopher Halpin 歡迎參加 IAC 和 Angi Inc. 第二季度收益電話會議。今天加入我的是 IAC 首席執行官兼 Angi Inc. 首席執行官兼董事長喬伊·萊文 (Joey Levin)。

Similar to last quarter, supplemental to our quarterly earnings releases, IAC has also published its quarterly shareholder letter, which is currently available on the Investor Relations section of IAC's website. We will not be reading the shareholder letter on this call. I will shortly turn the call over to Joey to make a few brief introductory remarks, and we'll then open it up to Q&A.

與上季度類似，作為季度收益發布的補充，IAC 還發布了季度股東信函，目前可在 IAC 網站的投資者關係部分查看。我們不會在這次電話會議上閱讀股東信。我很快就會把電話轉給喬伊，做一些簡短的介紹性發言，然後我們將進行問答。

Before we get to that, I'd like to remind you that during this presentation, we may discuss our outlook and future performance. These forward-looking statements typically may be preceded by words such as we expect, we believe, we anticipate or similar statements. These forward-looking views are subject to risks and uncertainties, and our actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Some of these risks have been set forth in IAC's and Angi Inc.'s second quarter earnings releases and our respective filings with the SEC.

在此之前，我想提醒您，在本次演示中，我們可能會討論我們的前景和未來表現。這些前瞻性陳述之前通常可能會出現“我們期望”、“我們相信”、“我們預期”或類似陳述等詞語。這些前瞻性觀點存在風險和不確定性，我們的實際結果可能與今天表達的觀點存在重大差異。其中一些風險已在 IAC 和 Angi Inc. 的第二季度收益報告以及我們各自向 SEC 提交的文件中闡述。

We'll also discuss certain non-GAAP measures, which, as a reminder, include adjusted EBITDA, which we'll refer to today as EBITDA for simplicity during the call. I'll also refer you to our earnings releases, the IAC shareholder letter, our public filings with the SEC and again, to the Investor Relations section of our respective websites for all comparable GAAP measures and full reconciliations for all material non-GAAP measures.

我們還將討論某些非 GAAP 指標，提醒一下，其中包括調整後的 EBITDA，為了簡單起見，我們今天將其稱為 EBITDA。我還將向您推薦我們的收益發布、IAC 股東信函、我們向SEC 提交的公開文件，並再次推薦您訪問我們各自網站的投資者關係部分，了解所有可比的GAAP 衡量標準以及所有重大非GAAP 衡量標準的全面對賬。

Now I will turn it over to Joey.

現在我將把它交給喬伊。

Thanks, Chris. I appreciate everyone taking the time with us this morning and appreciate all the people across IAC companies who are working hard for our customers.

謝謝，克里斯。我感謝今天早上大家抽出時間與我們在一起，也感謝 IAC 公司中所有為我們的客戶辛勤工作的人員。

I want to share part of a note I shared with employees yesterday, which I think is apropos some of the decisions we made in Q2. We win by building exceptional differentiated products that take the hard work off our customers' plates. We do it so they don't have to. Angi does the work to find the right pro to fix your garbage disposal while doing the work to help that pro grow his business. Dotdash Meredith does the research so you can choose the right product, plan the right trip or make a great meal. And Dotdash Meredith also does the work to help advertisers find the right customers. That's what D/Cipher is.

我想分享我昨天與員工分享的筆記的一部分，我認為這與我們在第二季度做出的一些決定有關。我們通過打造卓越的差異化產品來贏得勝利，從而減輕客戶的辛苦工作。我們這樣做是為了讓他們不必這樣做。安吉（Angi）致力於尋找合適的專業人士來修理您的垃圾處理系統，同時努力幫助該專業人士發展其業務。 Dotdash Meredith 進行了研究，以便您可以選擇合適的產品、計劃合適的旅行或做一頓美味的飯菜。 Dotdash Meredith 還致力於幫助廣告商找到合適的客戶。這就是 D/Cipher。

Care does the work to help families find caregivers and caregivers find jobs. Vivian does the work so burned out clinicians can discover their dream opportunity and does the work for hospitals to get clinicians helping patients faster.

Care 致力於幫助家庭找到護理人員和護理人員找到工作。 Vivian 所做的工作是為了讓疲憊不堪的臨床醫生能夠發現他們夢想的機會，並幫助醫院讓臨床醫生更快地幫助患者。

The better, more efficient and seamless we are at doing the heavy lifting across IAC, the more time we can give back to our customers, and the more they appreciate and depend on us. But every day, every quarter, every year, we have to set the bar higher for ourselves, and we have to constantly do a better job for our customers. That's what this past quarter was about, and that's how we win. Let's go to questions. Operator, first question?

我們在 IAC 的繁重工作中做得越好、越高效、越無縫，我們就能為客戶提供更多的時間，他們也就越欣賞和依賴我們。但每一天、每個季度、每年，我們都必須為自己設定更高的標準，我們必須不斷為客戶做得更好。這就是上個季度的主題，這就是我們獲勝的方式。我們來提問吧。接線員，第一個問題？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Cory Carpenter with JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自摩根大通的科里·卡彭特（Cory Carpenter）。

On Angi, could you expand on what drove the larger-than-expected revenue decline in 2Q and how this impacts your outlook for the rest of the year? And then secondly, you were a bit less active deploying capital this quarter. How much of that was due to business terms versus other considerations?

關於 Angi，您能否詳細說明是什麼導致第二季度收入下降幅度超出預期，以及這對您今年剩餘時間的前景有何影響？其次，本季度您部署資本的積極性有所下降。其中有多少是出於商業條款而不是其他考慮因素？

Yes. I'll do the second one first quickly, and then I'll go to the first. The -- as you know, we buy back stock periodically, we deploy capital periodically, and there's not a -- we haven't historically and aren't likely in the future to have a consistent pattern on that other than buying shares when we think it's the most attractive use of our cash in the period. We deployed a lot of cash in the first 5 months of the year, and we thought that, that was attractive time to do it. And we took a breather these past few months, and we'll continue to evaluate that as we always do on opportunities for deploying our cash, whether it's buying back shares in IAC or Angi or any other opportunities in front of us.

是的。我會先快速做第二個，然後再做第一個。正如你所知，我們定期回購股票，我們定期部署資本，而且我們歷史上沒有，將來也不可能有一個一致的模式，除了當我們購買股票時我認為這是我們這段時期現金最有吸引力的用途。我們在今年前 5 個月部署了大量現金，我們認為這是一個有吸引力的時機。在過去的幾個月裡，我們休息了一會兒，我們將繼續評估這一點，就像我們一貫對部署現金的機會所做的那樣，無論是回購IAC 或Angi 的股票，還是我們面前的任何其他機會。

On the first question, I've been saying for a while that there were areas where I thought Angi had focused on optimizing for shorter-term revenue over the longer-term health of the business and our customer experience and that we were going to make changes along those lines. And for the past few quarters, we've been doing that.

關於第一個問題，我已經說過一段時間了，我認為安吉在某些領域專注於優化短期收入，而不是業務的長期健康狀況和我們的客戶體驗，我們將沿著這些方向發生變化。在過去的幾個季度裡，我們一直在這樣做。

In the second half of this past quarter, we saw a further opportunity to do that, and I made the call to make that change, which I have no doubt was the right call in the business. I think the impact of that call, which was really restructuring some demand channels, ramping down channels pretty quickly over the course of the quarter. And this was revenue in the quarter, and it was also profitable revenue in the quarter. We ramped that down pretty quickly, and the impact of that would be most pronounced in Q2.

在上個季度的下半年，我們看到了進一步做到這一點的機會，我呼籲做出這一改變，我毫不懷疑這是業務中正確的決定。我認為該電話會議的影響確實是重組了一些需求渠道，在本季度內迅速減少了渠道。這是本季度的收入，也是本季度的盈利收入。我們很快就降低了這一點，其影響在第二季度最為明顯。

I think we're already seeing July better on a -- July was better on a profit perspective. And I think we'll see the benefit of some of the changes we made in Q2 over the coming quarters. So that impact was most pronounced. But the substance of it was turning off channels of demand or reducing channels of demand that we thought can deliver the ideal customer experience. And that in exchange for that, what we're going to drive is longer-term retention of pros and better homeowner experience on our platform.

我認為我們已經看到 7 月份的情況更好——從利潤角度來看，7 月份的情況更好。我認為我們將在接下來的幾個季度看到我們在第二季度所做的一些改變的好處。所以這種影響是最明顯的。但其實質是關閉需求渠道或減少我們認為可以提供理想客戶體驗的需求渠道。作為交換，我們將推動在我們的平台上長期保留專業人士並提供更好的房主體驗。

Our next question comes from John Blackledge with TD Cowen.

我們的下一個問題來自 John Blackledge 和 TD Cowen。

What are you seeing in terms of revenue trends at DDM Digital exiting Q2 and thus far in 3Q? And the performance marketing growth was good to see. How does that kind of momentum play in the back half for DDM Digital rev trajectory? And then just on the margins, what type of cadence could we see in the back half?

您對 DDM Digital 第二季度和第三季度迄今為止的收入趨勢有何看法？效果營銷的增長令人欣喜。這種勢頭在 DDM Digital 轉速軌蹟的後半段如何發揮作用？然後就在邊緣，我們可以在後半段看到什麼類型的節奏？

Thanks, John. I'll take those one at a time. So top line, just for us in June, it was a key moment in the integration and the performance of the combined Dotdash and Meredith assets. We had said since the beginning of the year, we were aiming to get to flat on Digital revenues and on traffic. We achieved both. We actually had 1% Digital growth in June led by strong performance marketing, and we were able to reach stability in sessions and in traffic during the month of June on Digital across the portfolio.

謝謝，約翰。我一次拿一個。因此，對於我們來說，六月份是 Dotdash 和 Meredith 合併資產整合和績效的關鍵時刻。我們從今年年初就說過，我們的目標是數字收入和流量持平。我們兩者都實現了。實際上，在強勁的績效營銷帶動下，我們 6 月份的數字增長了 1%，並且我們能夠在 6 月份整個產品組合的數字會話和流量上實現穩定。

That was led by the former Meredith assets broadly across the portfolio there. We feel good about the -- where those assets are on the migration and growth plans. We can continue to optimize. We're very focused on continuing momentum behind InStyle. And people we feel good about, but we'll always have more volatility just due to the entertainment category.

這是由前梅雷迪思資產在投資組合中廣泛領導的。我們對這些資產在遷移和增長計劃中的位置感到滿意。我們可以繼續優化。我們非常關注 InStyle 背後的持續動力。以及我們感覺良好的人，但由於娛樂類別，我們總會有更多的波動。

It sets us up well for the second half. The third quarter, we -- as we indicated in the letter, we expect at or around flat, maybe slightly negative. That's due to a combination of ups and downs, continued growth in a lot of the Meredith properties, stability in certain Dotdash properties. We have very strong Amazon Prime Day. But also we've seen some softer traffic trends in the entertainment category as well as some partner sites.

這為我們下半場做好了準備。正如我們在信中指出的那樣，我們預計第三季度將持平或持平，甚至可能略有負面。這是由於梅雷迪斯 (Meredith) 的許多屬性的持續增長和某些 Dotdash 屬性的穩定性的起起落落的綜合作用。我們的亞馬遜 Prime Day 活動非常活躍。但我們也看到娛樂類別以及一些合作夥伴網站的流量趨於疲軟。

So Q3, we expect sequential growth, but year-over-year on the top line, flattish to slightly down, but we expect a very strong Q4. And the performance, the comps, the trends, we feel good about where we are, including the tailwinds of performance marketing, which we really weren't able to fully roll out to the Meredith properties last holiday as well as support from D/Cipher. Performance marketing was a key theme of the acquisition and really rolling out the Dotdash e-commerce integrations to the best-in-class Meredith brands. 12% growth in the quarter was great to see. We are heads down continuing to improve that and expect accelerating growth there on a forward basis, and there's a lot of opportunity.

因此，我們預計第三季度將出現環比增長，但營收同比將持平或略有下降，但我們預計第四季度將非常強勁。性能、比較、趨勢，我們對自己所處的位置感覺良好，包括性能營銷的推動力，上個假期我們確實無法將其完全推廣到梅雷迪思酒店，以及 D/Cipher 的支持。效果營銷是此次收購的一個關鍵主題，並真正將 Dotdash 電子商務集成推廣到一流的 Meredith 品牌。本季度 12% 的增長令人欣喜。我們正在埋頭繼續改進這一點，並預計未來會加速增長，而且有很多機會。

And then on margins, we've said we expect incremental EBITDA margins given how -- where we have the cost structure and the efficiencies we've driven to be in the 80%-plus range. And you can see in sequential Digital revenue growth and EBITDA improvement that or better. We expect to continue to see improved margins year-over-year and also on a sequential basis in Q3. And then Q4 seasonally is always a major quarter for Dotdash and Meredith, and both in terms of advertising and performance marketing revenues but also margin scale. And we see -- we forecast strong (inaudible) in the fourth quarter.

然後在利潤率方面，我們說過，考慮到我們的成本結構和我們推動的效率，我們預計 EBITDA 利潤率會增加到 80% 以上。您可以看到數字收入的連續增長和 EBITDA 的改善甚至更好。我們預計第三季度的利潤率將繼續同比和環比提高。然後，第四季度始終是 Dotdash 和 Meredith 的主要季度，無論是在廣告和效果營銷收入方面，還是在利潤規模方面。我們看到 - 我們預測第四季度表現強勁（聽不清）。

Our next question comes from Eric Sheridan with Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的埃里克·謝里丹。

Maybe 2 on Angi, if I could. First, following up on Cory's question from earlier, you really stuck out to us in the letter that you talked about lost revenue and used a phrase like good riddance. Can you talk a little bit about how much of this process of mix shift on revenue is inside your control versus outside your control and where we might be in the evolution of getting the type of revenue you want in the Angi business?

如果可以的話，也許 2 是關於 Angi 的。首先，繼科里之前提出的問題之後，你在信中確實向我們強調了你談到了收入損失，並使用了“好擺脫”這樣的短語。您能否談談收入混合轉變過程中有多少是在您的控制之內和在您的控制之外，以及我們在 Angi 業務中獲得您想要的收入類型方面可能處於什麼發展階段？

And then the second along the same lines, it was interesting to see a paragraph on international and Angi in the letter. Can you talk about some of the key learnings from international? I think you've used the phrase that it's a good leading indicator for the trajectory the U.S. might eventually take, and maybe give us a little bit of color on that trajectory?

然後第二封信中也有同樣的內容，很有趣的是在信中看到一段關於國際和安吉的段落。您能談談國際上的一些重要經驗嗎？我認為你已經用過這樣一句話：這是美國最終可能採取的軌蹟的一個很好的領先指標，並且也許可以給我們關於該軌蹟的一​​點色彩？

Yes. Thanks, Eric. So we did -- when making a lot of the changes in Angi, we did, obviously, the easiest stuff first. And maybe I'll break the revenue down in a few buckets. There is the revenue that came with either zero earnings or negative earnings. And that stuff is easy to get rid of especially if it has a bad customer experience or not an ideal customer experience. And you saw a lot of that happen very early in Q4 and Q1. So things like managed projects, the more complex services which we discontinued or other channels where we were doing unprofitable revenue. That's relatively straightforward, and I think we've cleaned up all of that.

是的。謝謝，埃里克。所以我們做了——當對 Angi 進行大量更改時，顯然我們首先做了最簡單的事情。也許我會把收入分成幾個部分。有些收入要么為零收益，要么為負收益。這些東西很容易擺脫，特別是如果它有糟糕的客戶體驗或不理想的客戶體驗。您在第四季度和第一季度的早期就看到了很多這樣的情況發生。例如託管項目、我們停止的更複雜的服務或我們賺取無利可圖收入的其他渠道。這相對簡單，我認為我們已經清理了所有這些。

The second bucket, and I think we're pretty far along in the second bucket, though not completely, the second bucket is where we were bringing service professionals onto the platform that weren't really well set up for the platform. And so really didn't end up covering their sales costs. And that meant they turned too quickly. And we're far along through that. So those folks would have generated some revenue but probably would not have generated profit over the lifetime relative to their sales cost because they didn't stay long enough.

第二個桶，我認為我們在第二個桶中已經走得很遠了，儘管不完全，第二個桶是我們將服務專業人員帶到平台上的地方，而該平台並沒有很好地設置。所以最終並沒有覆蓋他們的銷售成本。這意味著他們轉向得太快了。我們已經在這方面取得了很大進展。因此，這些人會產生一些收入，但相對於他們的銷售成本，在整個生命週期中可能不會產生利潤，因為他們停留的時間不夠長。

The third bucket, which is probably the -- which was what you saw happening in Q2 and where we do still have some work is where we're bringing in demand, we're bringing in revenue. And that revenue -- that demand can generate revenue in the period but can drive higher retention -- or sorry, can drive higher churn among our service professionals or among our homeowners. Meaning that they'll -- that would be detrimental to the lifetime value of that customer experience.

第三個桶，這可能是——這就是你在第二季度看到的情況，我們仍然有一些工作要做，那就是我們正在帶來需求，我們正在帶來收入。而這種收入——這種需求可以在這段時間內產生收入，但可以提高保留率——或者抱歉，可以提高我們的服務專業人員或房主的流失率。這意味著他們會——這將損害客戶體驗的終生價值。

And that was really what the focus was of the change in the second half of Q2. And ultimately, what drives all these decisions is are we delivering a great customer experience? Are we delivering a sustainable, durable customer experience, meaning one that is economically viable? And are we able to grow the platform, grow the homeowners and grow the revenues? And that's what drives us from here. I think we are much closer to a healthy place right now. I think it's not impossible that we consider other things we might change or restructure in the context of revenue or demand channels that come in. But I think the first bucket is, as I say, the sort of negative earnings revenue done or zero earnings revenue is done. And the second bucket is pretty far along. And the third bucket, I think, is also pretty far along, but that may be where we still have a little bit of work to do.

這確實是第二季度下半年變化的焦點。最終，推動所有這些決策的是我們是否提供了出色的客戶體驗？我們是否提供了可持續、持久的客戶體驗，即經濟上可行的體驗？我們是否能夠發展平台、增加房主並增加收入？這就是我們離開這裡的動力。我認為我們現在離健康更近了。我認為，我們並非不可能在收入或需求渠道的背景下考慮可能改變或重組的其他事情。但我認為，正如我所說，第一桶是已完成的負收益或零收益收入已經完成了。第二個桶已經很遠了。我認為，第三個目標也還很遙遠，但這可能是我們仍有一些工作要做的地方。

As far as international, the -- one of the great things about international is we were able to try a lot of different models and able to try that with relatively little sort of outside attention. So each country that we were in, in our main country, they are U.K., France, Germany and Netherlands, in each one of those countries, we started with a different model and a different technology platform. And we learned a lot about each of those models and picked the sort of best parts of each.

就國際化而言，國際化的一大好處是我們能夠嘗試很多不同的模式，並且能夠在相對較少的外界關注的情況下進行嘗試。因此，我們所在的每個國家，在我們的主要國家，它們是英國、法國、德國和荷蘭，在每一個國家，我們都從不同的模型和不同的技術平台開始。我們對每個模型都了解了很多，並挑選了每個模型中最好的部分。

And the things that we were able to get working in Europe, which we have not yet gotten working in the U.S. but give us great hope is one, something much closer to self-enroll on the service professional side, not 100% self-enroll but much closer to self-enroll on the service professional side, so meaningfully lower sales costs. Two, we made big changes to some demand channels pretty quickly and got past those demand issues. In particular in France, where we were only dependent on the affiliate channel. We really completely redid that.

我們能夠在歐洲開展工作，雖然我們尚未在美國開展工作，但給我們帶來了很大的希望，其中之一是，在服務專業方面更接近於自我註冊，而不是 100% 自我註冊但在服務專業方面更接近於自我註冊，因此可以顯著降低銷售成本。第二，我們很快對一些需求渠道做出了重大改變，並解決了這些需求問題。特別是在法國，我們只依賴聯屬渠道。我們真的徹底重做了。

And the last thing from the homeowner experience is double opt-in. So meaning where a customer experience where the homeowner chooses the pro, and the pro chooses the homeowner. And when those two things both together -- both come together as the billing event. And that seems to be working from a product perspective. I don't know yet whether we'll go all the way there in the U.S. on a product, but that product does work, is working in Europe, and it's impressive. The other thing is just getting the hard work done of integration. So we've now got, as we said in the letter, three of the four platforms are integrated, and we're going to integrate the fourth platform soon. And that allows us to operate a lot more efficiently with lower cost and easier platform to innovate on.

房主體驗中的最後一件事是雙重選擇加入。因此，這意味著房主選擇專業人士，專業人士選擇房主的客戶體驗。當這兩件事結合在一起時——兩者結合在一起就成為計費事件。從產品的角度來看，這似乎是有效的。我還不知道我們是否會在美國推出一款產品，但該產品確實有效，正在歐洲發揮作用，而且令人印象深刻。另一件事就是完成整合的艱苦工作。因此，正如我們在信中所說，我們現在已經集成了四個平台中的三個，並且我們將很快集成第四個平台。這使我們能夠以更低的成本和更容易的平台進行創新，從而提高運營效率。

The only thing I'd add on top of that is the second quarter last year was sort of peak for -- as we mentioned, for...

除此之外，我唯一要補充的是，去年第二季度是某種高峰——正如我們所提到的……

Empty calories.

空卡路里。

Either low-calorie revenues or regretful revenues in terms of -- for pro experience or higher pro churn. So you can see some of that in the graphs on SP retention, where coming out of that period, you had some of the real drops in SP retention.

要么是低卡路里收入，要么是令人遺憾的收入——對於職業體驗或更高的職業流失率。因此，您可以在 SP 保留率圖表中看到其中的一些內容，在該時期之後，SP 保留率出現了一些真正的下降。

You also have roofing, which had its peak revenue in the second quarter last year, which still not -- the business still isn't where we want it but has an oversized impact on Angi revenue declines in aggregate year-over-year. Thank you.

還有屋頂業務，該業務在去年第二季度達到了收入峰值，但現在仍然沒有達到我們想要的水平，但對 Angi 總收入同比下降產生了巨大影響。謝謝。

Our next question comes from Jason Helfstein with Oppenheimer.

我們的下一個問題來自傑森·赫爾夫斯坦和奧本海默。

I'm (inaudible) Oppenheimer. So 2 questions. First, just a little more color on Dotdash Meredith, Dotdash. Are you seeing any competition for engagement given the massive increase in short video Reels, TikTok, YouTube shorts, et cetera. And then you did kind of talk about your outlook, but maybe go into some detail on categories, what you're seeing in the second quarter and what you're looking at the third. And second question just on MGM. Obviously, a very timely investment there. I think there were thoughts originally behind it to get exposure to online sports betting and iGaming while obviously participate in the rebound in Vegas. Is there a way to parlay that into a more direct play on online sports betting or iGaming?

我是（聽不清）奧本海默。所以有2個問題。首先，給Dotdash Meredith 多一點顏色，Dotdash。鑑於短視頻 Reels、TikTok、YouTube 短片等的大量增加，您是否看到了參與度方面的競爭？然後您確實談到了您的前景，但也許會詳細介紹一些類別、您在第二季度看到的內容以及您在第三季度看到的內容。第二個問題是關於米高梅的。顯然，這是一個非常及時的投資。我認為最初的想法是為了接觸在線體育博彩和 iGaming，同時顯然參與拉斯維加斯的反彈。有沒有辦法將其轉化為更直接的在線體育博彩或 iGaming 遊戲？

I'll go first, and I'll turn it to Chris. Just quickly on the social media side, but we compete for attention with any other form of media, and we compete for advertisers with any other form of media. I'm not sure that the -- we could attribute anything that we're seeing directly to things like TikTok or taking share from the content consumption that we drive, the sort of content consumption that we drive. But as I say, we compete with all media in that context. On MGM, we are -- we've actually spent quite a bit of time looking at opportunities in this space. Came close on one, but we've learned a lot in our investment with MGM in terms of gaming, gambling and opportunities there and what's working. And I think that's an area that is interesting, but nothing immediately on the horizon there and continue to be excited about the progress that MGM and BetMGM is making, which is very impressive.

我先去，然後交給克里斯。在社交媒體方面很快，但我們與任何其他形式的媒體競爭注意力，我們與任何其他形式的媒體競爭廣告商。我不確定我們是否可以將我們所看到的任何東西直接歸因於 TikTok 之類的東西，或者從我們推動的內容消費中獲取份額，我們推動的內容消費類型。但正如我所說，我們在這方面與所有媒體競爭。在米高梅，我們實際上花了相當多的時間尋找這個領域的機會。差一點就實現了，但我們在米高梅的投資中學到了很多東西，包括遊戲、賭博、那裡的機會以及有效的方法。我認為這是一個有趣的領域，但還沒有立即出現的情況，並且繼續對 MGM 和 BetMGM 正在取得的進展感到興奮，這是非常令人印象深刻的。

And going back, relative to building on Joey's point, the demos we have and where we excel, we wouldn't -- we don't see losing any traffic to those sites. And in fact, they are revenue and reader lead generation opportunities, given many of these top Meredith brands have limited social media presence. So Neil Vogel and team have been very focused on building the social media integrations as a channel for a lot of these brands, also expanding our own video presence there. We've got good infrastructure to do it, but increasing the short-form and medium-form video that is produced off of our properties for YouTube, for TikTok and Instagram and other channels. So we don't view it as much of a threat and more of an opportunity.

回過頭來，相對於喬伊的觀點，我們擁有的演示以及我們擅長的地方，我們不會 - 我們不會看到這些網站失去任何流量。事實上，鑑於許多梅雷迪思頂級品牌在社交媒體上的影響力有限，它們是收入和讀者潛在客戶開發的機會。因此，尼爾·沃格爾和團隊一直非常專注於建立社交媒體整合，作為許多此類品牌的渠道，同時也擴大我們自己的視頻業務。我們擁有良好的基礎設施來做到這一點，但我們還增加了為 YouTube、TikTok 和 Instagram 以及其他渠道製作的短視頻和中視頻。因此，我們並不將其視為威脅，而是將其視為機遇。

Macro, we'd say the market is still soft from a premium demand side in brand, but it is a second derivative positive where if the programmatic market is down 5% to 10% as we said in the letter, that's definitely an improvement over what it looked like in Q1 and parts of Q2. Categories that are strong, retail, beauty and style, travel and auto as we said in the letter, some of that is due to just straight absolute growth in those categories. Some of it is due to how soft the second quarter was for them last year, whether be it supply chain or retailer backup.

宏觀方面，我們認為，從品牌的優質需求方面來看，市場仍然疲軟，但這是一個二階衍生利好，如果程序化市場下降5% 到10%，正如我們在信中所說，這絕對是一個進步第一季度和第二季度部分內容的情況如何。正如我們在信中所說，零售、美容和時尚、旅遊和汽車等強勁的品類，其中一些是由於這些品類的絕對絕對增長所致。部分原因是去年第二季度對他們來說非常疲軟，無論是供應鏈還是零售商備份。

And then weakness, finance continues to be weak. I think that the category is trying to find its footing in a higher interest rate environment and lapping comps that were very aggressive a year ago. Telecom, we don't see much spend outside of one or two players, and big players are trying to figure out how they want to position themselves. And then entertainment and streaming, we think that is both a category that is -- streaming. The operators are focused on their model going forward and profitability. And entertainment and streaming, we're concerned about the strikes and ongoing strikes there leading to reduced advertising for new shows and fighting churn. So that's it. We expect the comps to get easier even if the absolute strength in it doesn't -- in the market does not improve, but it's one step at a time in the ad market today.

然後是疲軟，金融繼續疲軟。我認為該類別正試圖在更高的利率環境中找到立足點，並超越一年前非常激進的比較。電信方面，除了一兩個玩家之外，我們沒有看到太多支出，而大玩家正在試圖弄清楚他們想要如何定位自己。然後是娛樂和流媒體，我們認為這都是一個類別——流媒體。運營商專注於他們的未來模式和盈利能力。至於娛樂和流媒體，我們擔心那裡的罷工和持續的罷工會導致新節目的廣告減少和用戶流失。就是這樣了。我們預計，即使市場的絕對實力沒有改善，競爭也會變得更容易，但在當今的廣告市場上，這只是一步一個腳印。

Our next question comes from Stephen Ju with Credit Suisse.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸銀行的 Stephen Ju。

So Joey, I had a question on D/Cipher. So guess versus the environment in which we were still using cookies, how do you think advertiser ROIs compare before and after? Wondering if there's an opportunity for you to capture more wallet share as a result of this move? And looking a bit longer term, I think Google has been working to also move to a cookie-less world with an implementation target, I guess, sometime next year. So should we be thinking that this potentially shields you from potential sort of external risk?

Joey，我有一個關於 D/Cipher 的問題。那麼，猜猜看，與我們仍在使用 Cookie 的環境相比，您認為前後廣告商的投資回報率如何？想知道您是否有機會通過這一舉措獲得更多錢包份額？從更長遠的角度來看，我認為谷歌一直在努力邁向一個沒有 cookie 的世界，我想，明年的某個時候會有一個實施目標。那麼我們是否應該認為這可能會保護您免受潛在的外部風險的影響？

Yes. Thanks, Stephen. That's exactly the goal with D/Cipher. So Dotdash Meredith has data now that says intent outperforms cookies like-to-like. And it's not surprising to us. I mean, we've been as an advertiser for -- across billions of dollars across many of products, we see the same thing. Google has historically -- Google, which delivers intent, has historically outperformed every other channel for us, demographic-targeted channels, cookie-targeted channels, et cetera. Intent is a very meaningful signal, and D/Cipher really mapped intent successfully. And so we're now proving that for advertisers.

是的。謝謝，斯蒂芬。這正是 D/Cipher 的目標。 Dotdash Meredith 現在掌握的數據顯示，意圖優於 Cookie 的“點贊”功能。這對我們來說並不奇怪。我的意思是，作為廣告商，我們在許多產品上花費了數十億美元，我們看到了同樣的事情。谷歌歷史上——傳遞意圖的谷歌歷來比我們的所有其他渠道（針對人口統計的渠道、針對 cookie 的渠道等）表現更好。 Intent是一個非常有意義的信號，D/Cipher確實成功地映射了意圖。所以我們現在正在向廣告商證明這一點。

Key for us is just getting advertisers to give it a try, and then we can move the ROI. And yes, that also is very important right now on the cookie-less platforms like iOS and Google. As said in 2024, they're going cookie-less. And so we should be well positioned for that. And we're going to keep building the kind of content that chose intent, keep mapping that content and then proving that content with the ROI for advertisers.

對我們來說，關鍵是讓廣告商嘗試一下，然後我們就可以提高投資回報率。是的，這對於 iOS 和 Google 等無 cookie 平台來說也非常重要。正如 2024 年所說，他們將不再使用 cookie。因此，我們應該為此做好準備。我們將繼續構建選擇意圖的內容，繼續映射該內容，然後通過廣告商的投資回報率證明該內容。

Okay. And I guess, secondarily on Angi, reading between the lines on the shareholder letter, it sounds like you're looking to play a little bit more offense in 2024. You've cleaned up and shed some empty calories there. So what do you think still needs to be done from a product perspective?

好的。我想，其次，在 Angi 上，從股東信函的字裡行間來看，你似乎想在 2024 年採取更多進攻措施。你已經清理乾淨，並在那裡消耗了一些空卡路里。那麼您認為從產品角度還需要做哪些工作呢？

Yes. We talked about a lot of the work we've done on the pro side. Obviously, the work is never done on either side in terms of product. But we -- we're very encouraged by the progress we've seen on the work we've done on the pro side, improving the pro experience. And that progress is most evident in pro retention, which we showed in the letter. The second half of the year is really focused on the homeowner side. Again, we're constantly doing both. But we're looking to launch more innovation from the product experience on the homeowner side over the -- of course, the second half of this year to set us up for offense in 2024.

是的。我們討論了我們在專業方面所做的很多工作。顯然，就產品而言，任何一方都沒有完成工作。但我們對我們在職業方面所做的工作所取得的進展感到非常鼓舞，改善了職業體驗。這種進步在專業人士保留方面最為明顯，我們在信中表明了這一點。今年下半年的重點是房主方面。再說一次，我們一直在做這兩件事。但我們希望在今年下半年從房主方面的產品體驗中推出更多創新，為 2024 年的進攻做好準備。

And there's a bunch of things that we're working on there, but probably the most noteworthy change is something I mentioned not this quarter. But I think the last quarter or the quarter before, where we start to surface the directory earlier. Meaning that homeowners can come to our platform and find and interact with pros more quickly on our platform. We think that has a great opportunity for the pros on our platform. We think that has a great opportunity for homeowners to drive engagement. We think that has the opportunity to drive conversion.

我們正在那裡做很多事情，但最值得注意的變化可能是我本季度沒有提到的事情。但我認為是上個季度或前一個季度，我們開始更早地公開目錄。這意味著房主可以來到我們的平台，在我們的平台上更快地找到專業人士並與專業人士互動。我們認為這對於我們平台上的專業人士來說是一個很好的機會。我們認為這對房主來說是一個提高參與度的絕佳機會。我們認為這有機會推動轉化。

And ultimately, what will matter on the homeowner side similar to what we've done on the pro side is driving retention and repeat rates. And that's what we're aiming to do and get to a healthy place to really start rocking in 2024. Thank you.

最終，對於房主而言，與我們在專業方面所做的類似，重要的是提高保留率和重複率。這就是我們的目標，並在 2024 年實現健康並真正開始搖滾。謝謝。

Next question comes from Brad Erickson with RBC Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自加拿大皇家銀行資本市場的布拉德·埃里克森（Brad Erickson）。

Just 2 follow-ups on Angi. Talking a lot about the pros this morning, I guess, and some of the pruning you're doing there. Angi, I guess, always -- also had a tough time on fulfillment rates, so the demand that was coming into HomeAdvisor, for example. So how do you kind of balance this (inaudible) on pros or reconcile it strategically longer term as you look to have the right SPs but also having enough to support growth? That's the first question.

Angi 僅有 2 個後續行動。我想今天早上談論了很多關於專業人士的事情，以及你在那裡所做的一些修剪。我想，Angi 總是在履約率方面遇到困難，例如 HomeAdvisor 的需求。那麼，當您既希望擁有合適的 SP，又希望有足夠的資源來支持增長時，您如何在專業人士身上平衡這一點（聽不清），或者在長期戰略上協調它？這是第一個問題。

And then second, on Angi Services, where are you there from a category perspective? Do you feel like you're kind of fully baked in terms of the range of services you offer, and now you seem to get the demand going on that you're talking about? Or is there still work here to bring on new categories that can be kind of a further vector of growth there over time?

其次，在 Angi Services 上，從類別的角度來看，您處於什麼位置？您是否覺得自己對所提供的服務範圍已經完全成熟，並且現在似乎已經滿足了您所談論的需求？或者這裡是否仍然需要努力引入新的類別，隨著時間的推移，這些新類別可以成為那裡進一步增長的載體？

Thanks, Brad. It's great question and something that we are -- both are things we're very focused on. On fulfillment, we've been improving on fulfillment, notwithstanding the lower nominal service professional account. And we look at something which is a horrible internal acronym. But [ZACBR], which is zero accept contact or booking rate. And so it's looking at how often we offer no solution. And we've been shrinking the extent to which we offer no solution, and that's good segue into services.

謝謝，布拉德。這是一個很好的問題，也是我們非常關注的事情。在履行方面，儘管名義服務專業帳戶較低，但我們一直在改進履行情況。我們看到了一個可怕的內部縮寫詞。但是[ZACBR]，接受聯繫或預訂率為零。因此，我們關注的是我們不提供解決方案的頻率。我們一直在縮小不提供解決方案的範圍，這很好地延伸到了服務領域。

So one of the things we'll offer is matching with a lead pro or an ad pro. And one of the things we'll offer is the opportunity to get project done through our services platform. And not everyone will convert into services, but offering people services can be a significant value add and can drive repeat rate in the sense that sometimes customers are looking for pricing, and they can find pricing there. Sometimes customers aren't ready to make up their mind, but they want to see what the options are. And so giving them a fulfilling experience, meaning they know they have -- they at least have the option to get something done and they know what the price would be to get something done can drive customers back to the platform. We think services is enormously valuable in that context, and we think service is a significant competitive advantage.

因此，我們將提供的服務之一是與首席專業人士或廣告專業人士進行匹配。我們將提供的一件事是通過我們的服務平台完成項目的機會。並不是每個人都會轉化為服務，但為人們提供服務可以帶來顯著的增值，並且可以提高重複率，因為有時客戶正在尋找定價，並且他們可以在那裡找到定價。有時客戶還沒有準備好做出決定，但他們想看看有哪些選擇。因此，為他們提供令人滿意的體驗，意味著他們知道自己擁有——他們至少可以選擇完成某件事，並且他們知道完成某件事的價格是多少，可以促使客戶回到該平台。我們認為服務在這種情況下具有巨大的價值，並且我們認為服務是一個重要的競爭優勢。

That gets to your second question, which is how do we expand services, and we absolutely believe we can expand services. Obviously, we've [shrunk] services through the course of 2023 because I think we grew it too quickly, but we absolutely believe we can. Right now, we're in services that we can price accurately remotely and where we can generate a margin that's a good, healthy place to be. And the way we expand from here is figuring out the next categories where we can -- first step being priced accurately remotely. And we have tools for doing that. We have specific categories which we think are the likely next candidates for that. But we're not rolling that out this year. We are -- that's something that we'll do in the future, but we do absolutely have the potential to expand that and do intend to expand that when we're in a place where we feel comfortable.

這就涉及到你的第二個問題，即我們如何擴展服務，我們絕對相信我們可以擴展服務。顯然，我們在 2023 年期間[縮減了]服務，因為我認為我們增長得太快了，但我們絕對相信我們可以。目前，我們提供的服務可以遠程準確定價，並且可以產生良好、健康的利潤。我們從這裡擴展的方式是找出我們可以的下一個類別——第一步是遠程準確定價。我們有工具可以做到這一點。我們有特定的類別，我們認為這些類別可能是下一個候選者。但我們今年不會推出這一計劃。我們是——這是我們將來會做的事情，但我們絕對有潛力擴大這一點，並且確實打算在我們感到舒適的地方擴大這一點。

Next question comes from Ross Sandler with Barclays.

下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的羅斯桑德勒。

On Dotdash Meredith, as we look into '24, what are the puts and takes that would allow the business to grow faster or slower than the overall digital ad market? How do we think about that? And then on the SEO impact from these new AI search pages, one of your peers recently said that SEO traffic to their premium properties, which -- many of which are like Meredith sites are seeing a nice benefit actually from things, changes since earlier this year with SEO traffic growing a couple of orders of magnitude faster than the baseline. So what are you guys seeing? As Google now adds hyperlinks to these new search generative experience pages, what are you expecting to see, if anything, from that SEO downstream traffic?

在 Dotdash Meredith 上，當我們展望 24 世紀時，哪些看跌期權和看跌期權會讓業務增長快於或慢於整個數字廣告市場？我們對此有何看法？然後，關於這些新的人工智能搜索頁面對SEO 的影響，您的一位同行最近表示，SEO 流量流向了他們的優質資產，其中許多像Meredith 網站一樣，實際上從事物中看到了很好的好處，自今年早些時候以來發生了變化今年 SEO 流量的增長速度比基線快幾個數量級。那麼你們看到了什麼？隨著 Google 現在向這些新的搜索生成體驗頁面添加超鏈接，您希望從 SEO 下游流量中看到什麼（如果有的話）？

You want to do the first one, and I'll...

你想做第一個，我就...

Thanks, Ross. In terms of '24 or you think about the rest of '23, there's 3 main digital revenue streams: advertising, both premium and programmatic sales; performance marketing, e-commerce and services execution there; and then licensing. There's good reason to project both for all three going into 2024. On the advertising side, we've worked through the toughest of the pandemic-elevated comps. I feel like we've got the sales force in a good, structured, unified way executing across categories. And with D/Cipher, we think we can take share in both premium and programmatic over time at attractive monetization rates.

謝謝，羅斯。就 24 世紀或 23 世紀的剩餘時間而言，有 3 個主要的數字收入來源：廣告，包括付費銷售和程序化銷售；績效營銷、電子商務和服務執行；然後是許可。有充分的理由對 2024 年的這三個方面進行預測。在廣告方面，我們已經完成了因大流行而加劇的最艱難的競爭。我覺得我們的銷售隊伍以一種良好的、結構化的、統一的方式跨類別執行。通過 D/Cipher，我們認為隨著時間的推移，我們可以以有吸引力的貨幣化率在優質和程序化領域佔據份額。

The performance marketing has really been moving from strength to strength. We expect to continue to do that and create more content, more integrations and fine-tune them in a better way. And there's no reason why it shouldn't continue to be a strong source of growth in '24. And then similarly, licensing has passed some of its tougher comps, working through things at Apple News and other markets, and we should see growth there. So the -- and then on the audience side, both -- we expect both the historic Dotdash and Meredith sites to be increasing traffic. I'll turn it over to Joey. But relative to generative AI and be it Google or Bing, we have not seen any loss of traffic so far in our properties and are having active discussions about how we can be a partner, but I'll turn it over to Joey.

效果營銷確實在不斷發展壯大。我們希望繼續這樣做，創造更多的內容，更多的集成，並以更好的方式對其進行微調。它沒有理由不繼續成為 24 年強勁的增長源。同樣，授權已經通過了一些更嚴格的競爭，通過蘋果新聞和其他市場的事情，我們應該看到那裡的增長。因此，在觀眾方面，我們預計歷史悠久的 Dotdash 和 Meredith 網站的流量都會增加。我會把它交給喬伊。但相對於生成式人工智能，無論是谷歌還是必應，到目前為止，我們的資產還沒有看到任何流量損失，並且正在積極討論如何成為合作夥伴，但我會將其交給喬伊。

Yes. The only thing I'd add to that is those platforms are built on a healthy Internet ecosystem, and sending traffic -- their fundamental business model is sending traffic out to the rest of the Internet. And what they've said and what I believe they intend to continue is that doing exactly that and doing more of that every year. And so I think it is very easy to imagine a scenario, although we really don't know how this is going to play out, and I'm not sure they know how this is going to play out, it is very easy to imagine a scenario where they figure out how to use these tools to send more traffic out to the rest of the Internet.

是的。我唯一要補充的是，這些平台建立在健康的互聯網生態系統之上，並發送流量——它們的基本商業模式是將流量發送到互聯網的其他部分。他們所說的以及我相信他們打算繼續做的就是這樣做，並且每年做得更多。所以我認為很容易想像一個場景，雖然我們真的不知道這將如何發展，而且我不確定他們知道這將如何發展，但很容易想像他們弄清楚如何使用這些工具將更多流量發送到互聯網的其他部分。

And there's -- again, that's fundamental to their business model, but there's also real value in that in the sense that we've talked about the fact that these platforms say and this technology is not yet reliable and not yet accurate. And so it can provide information or snippets or answers that users will look to platforms and brands like ours to for validation and which we think that the platforms can send to us for validation. And we view that as a -- that certainly has the potential to be a positive. But again, I don't think the user interfaces are hardened yet in a way where we know exactly what's going to happen there.

再說一次，這是他們商業模式的基礎，但從我們已經討論過的事實來看，這也具有真正的價值，這些平台表示，這項技術還不可靠，也不准確。因此，它可以提供用戶會向像我們這樣的平台和品牌尋求驗證的信息、片段或答案，並且我們認為平台可以將這些信息發送給我們進行驗證。我們認為這當然有可能產生積極的影響。但同樣，我認為用戶界面還沒有以我們確切知道那裡會發生什麼的方式得到強化。

Our next question comes from Brian Fitzgerald with Wells Fargo.

我們的下一個問題來自富國銀行的布萊恩·菲茨杰拉德。

We want to ask about Care leadership change there. Given the new phase of the business, and the leadership change, does that imply anything about how you're planning to invest around Care.com?

我們想詢問那裡的護理領導層變動情況。鑑於業務的新階段和領導層的變化，這是否意味著您計劃如何圍繞 Care.com 進行投資？

Yes. Thanks, Brian. No, I don't think that, that changes anything along those lines. I think that Brad is very much focused, I think, on a continuation of the existing strategy and meaning execution against Instant Book and getting that product working, and fundamentally growing the caregiver base and family base in ways that delight both sides. But I don't think there's any fundamental shift in probably the core business strategy nor from IAC's perspective, capital allocation up or down from there.

是的。謝謝，布萊恩。不，我不認為這會改變任何事情。我認為布拉德非常專注於延續現有的針對 Instant Book 的戰略和意義執行，讓該產品發揮作用，並以雙方都滿意的方式從根本上擴大看護者基礎和家庭基礎。但我認為核心業務戰略可能不會發生任何根本性轉變，從 IAC 的角度來看，資本配置也不會因此而發生任何根本性轉變。

It's -- we like the margins at that business. It scaled well as it's grown. And the incremental margins, gross margins are very solid. So we look to drive organic growth. And then as always with IAC, if there are M&A or inorganic opportunities, we'll pursue them as they arise and make sense.

我們喜歡該業務的利潤率。隨著它的成長，它的擴展性也很好。而且增量利潤、毛利率都非常穩固。因此，我們希望推動有機增長。然後，與 IAC 一貫的做法一樣，如果存在併購或無機機會，我們將在它們出現且有意義時予以追求。

Next question comes from Youssef Squali with Truist Securities.

下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Youssef Squali。

So maybe just a follow-up to Brian's question on Care. Maybe can you talk about how big the transactional book offering is today? And maybe how should we think about that opportunity relative to subscription? And at Dotdash, are there any common characteristics causing some of the titles like Parents, InStyle, Shape to trail in terms of traffic? And what are you guys doing to reverse that?

所以也許只是布萊恩關於護理問題的後續行動。也許您能談談今天的交易圖書發行量有多大嗎？也許我們應該如何看待與訂閱相關的機會？在 Dotdash，是否有任何共同特徵導致一些遊戲（例如《Parents》、《InStyle》、《Shape》）在流量方面落後？你們正在做什麼來扭轉這種局面？

Yes. I don't think we'll disclose a specific breakdown of revenue with Care. But the one thing I want to sort of correct in your question or how you're thinking about it is I actually view transactions long term as a driver of subscriptions. So the -- we can offer user a transaction on booking. But really the goal in that is to show the value of transactions, show the value of the platform and ultimately show the value of subscriptions to the product. So I think if we're successful on that, I'd like to see transactions actually ultimately drive more subscriptions through the platform and drive more retention through the platform on the existing subscriptions. Do you want to do the...

是的。我認為我們不會透露 Care 的具體收入細目。但我想糾正你的問題或你的想法的一件事是，我實際上將長期交易視為訂閱的驅動力。因此，我們可以為用戶提供預訂交易。但真正的目標是展示交易的價值，展示平台的價值，並最終展示產品訂閱的價值。因此，我認為如果我們在這方面取得成功，我希望看到交易實際上最終會通過該平台推動更多訂閱，並通過該平台推動現有訂閱的更多保留。你想做...

And the only other thing I'd add on Instant Book is it really opens up. There's so much traffic that comes through that doesn't sign up to a subscription. So allowing them at a higher rate to pursue a transaction prior to a subscription increases the engagement on the property, increases the experience and may lead to transaction-only customers or may lead them to execute a subscription, but very much increases the breadth of offerings to the traffic we get.

我要在即時預訂上添加的唯一另一件事是它確實開放。有如此多的流量通過，沒有註冊訂閱。因此，允許他們在訂閱之前以更高的速率進行交易，可以增加對房產的參與度，增加體驗，並可能會吸引只進行交易的客戶，或者可能會導致他們執行訂閱，但會大大增加產品的廣度到我們得到的流量。

With respect to the properties that we'd characterize as laggards in the Meredith portfolio, it is pretty idiosyncratic of why. The InStyle is a good property that was struggling when we bought it. It also -- in the theme of empty calorie revenues, they would have had the most empty or low-calorie impressions and sort of off-spec things that were driving clickbait-type activities. We really -- the management team has really looked to clean that out. We've also -- we're excited by new editor we brought on there and just repositioning it. So we feel good about the property and where it will end up. It's just a bit behind the -- or it's behind the curve relative to some of the others, but we feel good about the prospects there.

對於我們在梅雷迪思投資組合中被視為落後者的房產，其原因相當特殊。 InStyle 是一處不錯的房產，但我們買它時卻陷入了困境。而且，在空卡路里收入的主題中，他們會有最空或低卡路里的印象，以及一些不合規格的東西，這些東西正在推動點擊誘餌類型的活動。我們真的——管理團隊確實希望解決這個問題。我們還對我們帶來的新編輯並重新定位它感到興奮。因此，我們對這處房產及其最終的去向感覺良好。它只是有點落後——或者說相對於其他一些國家來說它落後於曲線，但我們對那裡的前景感到樂觀。

Parents is, again, in a category with the family and a bit of mental health that weaves into it where very high traffic patterns a year ago, but there's an action plan there to improve. And then Shape is tiny. Neil and team would love us to remove Shape because it's noncore and small, but we keep it on there just for completeness. So each of them has their own situation. And definitely two of them, we feel good about the opportunities in those brands. We just got to keep executing.

再次，父母與家庭和一些心理健康問題交織在一起，一年前的交通模式非常高，但有一個行動計劃可以改善。然後形狀很小。 Neil 和團隊希望我們刪除 Shape，因為它是非核心且很小，但我們保留它只是為了完整性。所以他們每個人都有自己的情況。肯定是其中兩個，我們對這些品牌的機會感到滿意。我們只需要繼續執行。

Next question comes from Brent Thill with Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的布倫特·希爾 (Brent Thill)。

Joey, on Angi, when do you believe it can return to a growth asset? And ultimately, what's it going to take? What are the pieces that make that recovery?

Joey，關於Angi，您認為它什麼時候可以回歸增長資產？最終，需要做什麼？實現復甦的因素有哪些？

Yes. We said we think we'll get back to growth in 2024 and the -- there's a bunch of pieces to that. I think the margin part is easier. I mean, we're already back to growth on margins and profitability. At year-to-date, we've generated $55 million of cash flow. That's up $110 million per year. So I don't want that to get lost in all of this narrative in terms of what's happening there. But I assume your question is mostly focused on revenue growth, which is fair and certainly a focus of ours, which, as I said, I think, is in 2024. There's a few elements to that. One is SEO or traffic or top-of-funnel audience. So we still have the reality that the Angi brand, Angi.com is growing healthily and the homeadvisor.com legacy site is declining.

是的。我們說過，我們認為我們將在 2024 年恢復增長，這涉及很多方面。我認為保證金部分更容易。我的意思是，我們已經恢復了利潤率和盈利能力的增長。今年迄今為止，我們已經產生了 5500 萬美元的現金流。每年增加 1.1 億美元。所以我不希望在所有關於那裡發生的事情的敘述中迷失這一點。但我認為你的問題主要集中在收入增長上，這是公平的，而且肯定是我們的重點，正如我所說，我認為是在 2024 年。這有幾個要素。一是搜索引擎優化、流量或漏斗頂部受眾。因此，我們仍然面臨這樣的現實：Angi 品牌 Angi.com 正在健康發展，而 homeadvisor.com 舊網站正在衰落。

Now the magnitude of that continues to, in a sense, get better over time, and that HomeAdvisor is a smaller and smaller piece of the total. But we're still dealing with that drag. As we get into 2024, that becomes easier. The other piece is we talked a lot about and we'll continue to talk a lot about retention on pros. So we're bringing a pro base into 2024 that is healthier, retaining longer, spends more. And I think that will be a help there. The other piece is driving conversion and repeat rate on the homeowner side. That's the focus of the second half of this year. And I think that can be a real driver to growth if we deliver on the things that we're working on right now.

現在，從某種意義上說，隨著時間的推移，這種情況的嚴重程度繼續變得更好，而 HomeAdvisor 所佔的份額越來越小。但我們仍在應對這種阻力。當我們進入 2024 年時，這會變得更容易。另一件事是我們談論了很多，並且我們將繼續談論很多關於職業選手保留的問題。因此，我們將在 2024 年打造一個更健康、保留時間更長、支出更多的職業基礎。我認為這會有所幫助。另一部分是推動房主方面的轉化率和重複率。這是今年下半年的重點。我認為，如果我們能夠實現我們現在正在做的事情，這可能會成為增長的真正動力。

And the other thing that I want to mention, we talked about a little bit on this call, is services. I think services is a meaningful competitive differentiator. I think it's a great product with very high customer satisfaction, very high repeat rate. And we have to figure out how to start feeding more demand into that product because we're starving it a bit for demand right now. But if we can figure out how to feed more demand into that product and get that product exposed to more customers in a healthy way, then I think that can also be a driver of growth going forward.

我想提的另一件事是服務，我們在這次電話會議上談到了一點。我認為服務是一個有意義的競爭優勢。我認為這是一個很棒的產品，具有非常高的客戶滿意度和非常高的重複率。我們必須弄清楚如何開始滿足該產品的更多需求，因為我們現在的需求有點匱乏。但如果我們能夠弄清楚如何滿足該產品的更多需求，並以健康的方式讓該產品接觸到更多客戶，那麼我認為這也可以成為未來增長的驅動力。

Our next question comes from Ygal Arounian with Citigroup.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Ygal Arounian。

I want to go back to the gen AI question for a second. Two points on that. First, in terms of like internally on your content creation, you guys utilize gen AI, has it been a benefit at all? Kind of what are your thoughts around that? And then following up on the kind of search and LLM training piece, there's been a lot of discussions that there's going to be push back from publishers, new media lines around how they use your content or publisher content to inform their AI. Any thoughts around that and how you guys are approaching that?

我想先回到人工智能時代的問題。對此有兩點。首先，就你們內部的內容創作而言，你們使用了 gen AI，這有好處嗎？您對此有何想法？然後，在搜索和法學碩士培訓方面，有很多討論認為出版商、新媒體將如何使用你的內容或出版商內容來告知他們的人工智能。對此有什麼想法以及你們是如何實現這一目標的嗎？

Sure. I'll start, and Chris can add. The -- we're using gen AI in a bunch of places that -- actually across all of the businesses. But at Dotdash Meredith specifically, we're doing things that are sort of back-of-house with gen AI, meaning content briefs. So starting to put together outlines to that part of the -- our production process more efficiently. We're seeing increased productivity from doing things like that. We also think we can -- we're experimenting with some things on the user personalization side. So we've done, I think, historically a very good job of getting users at the top of funnel and sort of answering their fundamental questions. But we haven't done as good a job on keeping them, retaining them and sort of rotating them through our system.

當然。我先開始，克里斯可以補充。我們正在很多地方使用人工智能，實際上是在所有業務中。但具體來說，在 Dotdash Meredith，我們正在做一些類似於 gen AI 的後台工作，即內容簡介。因此，開始將我們的生產流程的這一部分的輪廓放在一起，以提高效率。我們發現這樣做可以提高生產力。我們也認為我們可以——我們正在用戶個性化方面嘗試一些東西。因此，我認為，從歷史上看，我們在讓用戶進入渠道頂部並回答他們的基本問題方面做得非常好。但我們在保留他們、留住他們以及在我們的系統中輪換他們方面做得還不夠好。

And I think that gen AI offers us a lot of tools to do that, which is figuring out what the related questions are and then figuring out how to use our content specifically to answer those related questions. We're starting to experiment on things like that and are optimistic about what that can deliver. The other piece is on the ad side, where we can set to customize ads and really expand creative infinitely and test creative infinitely for our advertisers, both to find better ad copy and find better targeting. And I think that can work very well.

我認為 gen AI 為我們提供了很多工具來做到這一點，即找出相關問題是什麼，然後找出如何專門使用我們的內容來回答這些相關問題。我們開始嘗試類似的事情，並對它能帶來的成果感到樂觀。另外一塊是在廣告方面，我們可以設置定制廣告，真正為我們的廣告主無限擴展創意、無限測試創意，既可以找到更好的廣告文案，也可以找到更好的定位。我認為這可以很好地發揮作用。

On the training side of the LLMs. Look, I think our position on this is clear. Ultimately, this will be sorted out one way or another. But fair use is a sort of very clear standard. I think we probably have a different interpretation of fair use than the folks with the LLMs do. But we are -- we don't think that our content can be repurposed for the same commercial use we use it for by others. And we're going to protect our intellectual property rights along those lines. And I do think there are productive conversations with everybody in the ecosystem because even if you want to argue fair use and even if you want to argue what intellectual property rights and things like that, the owners and operators of the LLMs know and understand that if they remove the economic incentive for creating the content upon which these things are based, that, that is not a sustainable ecosystem for everybody. And so you've seen some deals get done, and I think there's conversations happening that hopefully will be productive for everybody in the ecosystem.

在法學碩士的培訓方面。看，我認為我們對此的立場很明確。最終，這將通過某種方式得到解決。但合理使用是一種非常明確的標準。我認為我們對合理使用的解釋可能與法學碩士的人不同。但我們認為我們的內容不能被重新用於與其他人使用它相同的商業用途。我們將按照這些原則保護我們的知識產權。我確實認為與生態系統中的每個人都進行了富有成效的對話，因為即使你想爭論合理使用，即使你想爭論知識產權和類似的事情，法學碩士的所有者和經營者也知道並理解，如果他們消除了創建這些東西所基於的內容的經濟激勵，這對每個人來說都不是一個可持續的生態系統。所以你已經看到一些交易已經完成，我認為正在進行的對話有望對生態系統中的每個人都有成效。

Thanks, Joey. The only thing I'd add is in terms of real time, we're having a 2-day AI (inaudible) CTOs going on right now. And when you've got the collection of companies we have, it's interesting to see the diversity of applications. So very much, as Joey said, things like application development, coding, customer service and onboarding functions where you can apply GAI and create new interfaces to engage with whether it's a nurse being onboarded or a potential customer, et cetera. And really access the depth of your database, clearly, anything where there's optimization oriented.

謝謝，喬伊。我唯一要補充的是，就實時性而言，我們正在進行為期 2 天的 AI（聽不清）CTO 會議。當您了解我們擁有的公司集合時，您會發現應用程序的多樣性很有趣。正如 Joey 所說，在應用程序開發、編碼、客戶服務和入職功能等方面，您可以應用 GAI 並創建新的界面來與入職護士或潛在客戶等進行互動。並真正訪問數據庫的深度，清楚地，任何面向優化的地方。

And to be fair, many of our businesses have been using AI and machine learning for years, but that's continuing to evolve and then generative AI is -- prevents -- presents even more applications and intentions across advertising, matching tools for content development to your question, et cetera. I think broadly, with the CFO hat on, you can see the line of sight on both productivity enhancements and in many cases, what should be fairly deflationary cost impacts to businesses, be it customer service or people-intensive activities such as advertising, versioning, testing, those types of things. So it is, obviously, such a cliche but evolving rapidly. But just seeing our summit in the number of different applications across our companies has been definitely exciting for all of us. Thank you.

公平地說，我們的許多企業多年來一直在使用人工智能和機器學習，但這種情況仍在不斷發展，然後生成式人工智能在廣告領域呈現出更多的應用和意圖，將內容開發工具與您的內容相匹配。問題等等。我認為，從廣義上講，戴上首席財務官的帽子，你可以看到生產力提高的視線，並且在許多情況下，對企業來說應該是相當通貨緊縮的成本影響，無論是客戶服務還是廣告、版本控制等人員密集型活動，測試，這些類型的事情。顯然，這是一種陳詞濫調，但發展迅速。但僅僅看到我們公司不同應用程序數量的高峰對我們所有人來說絕對是令人興奮的。謝謝。

Our next question comes from Tom Champion with Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Tom Champion 和 Piper Sandler。

Joey, on Angi, how important is getting SPs back to growth? It was flattish sequentially this quarter. And it sounds like better retention, but how are you thinking about the gross add side of the equation?

Joey，關於 Angi，讓 SP 恢復增長有多重要？本季度環比持平。這聽起來像是更好的保留率，但你如何看待等式的總增加方面？

Look, we're definitely going to need to get the gross adds at some point. It hasn't been the focus recently. But ultimately, we need to get gross adds going, too. There's a lot going through the service professionals math. Remember, we lost a lot on the services side and moving out of the more complex services. And so there's a lot happening there. And still, dollar value is more important than nominal count, but we've ultimately, we're going to need nominal count to grow too. And I believe that's possible in 2024, probably more like late 2024, but I believe that's possible.

看，我們肯定需要在某個時候獲得總增加額。最近還不是焦點。但最終，我們還需要增加總收入。服務專業人員需要進行很多數學計算。請記住，我們在服務方面損失了很多，並放棄了更複雜的服務。所以那裡發生了很多事情。儘管如此，美元價值比名義數量更重要，但我們最終也需要名義數量的增長。我相信這在 2024 年是可能的，可能更像是 2024 年末，但我相信這是可能的。

Our last question comes from Kunal Madhukar with UBS.

我們的最後一個問題來自瑞銀集團的 Kunal Madhukar。

A couple, if I could. One more on the housekeeping side, which is based on the Q and the shares that you reported in the Q, you had about 85 million and changed in terms of number of shares. But in the press release, we talked about shares outstanding as of August 4, that was 82-point something. And so have you bought back more shares since the quarter ended? That's the housekeeping one.

如果可以的話，一對。另一個是內務管理方面，這是基於 Q 和您在 Q 中報告的股票，您大約有 8500 萬股，並且股票數量發生了變化。但在新聞稿中，我們談到了截至 8 月 4 日的流通股，即 82 點左右。自本季度結束以來，您回購了更多股票嗎？這就是家務事。

And then one on gen AI in terms of trying to understand how big and [barred] will be kind of behaving is for their content, they probably don't need to learn from multiple different sites. So if they choose a specific partner, maybe a couple of partners to learn from and maybe to pay for the copyright and for the learning experience, where does that place your properties in -- within that grand scheme of things?

然後，就試圖了解其內容的行為有多大和[禁止]而言，他們可能不需要從多個不同的網站學習。因此，如果他們選擇一個特定的合作夥伴，也許是幾個合作夥伴來學習，也許還要支付版權和學習經驗的費用，那麼在這個宏偉的計劃中，你的財產會放在哪裡？

Okay. I can take both, and Joey can jump in. The delta is the share between that share count as the shares associated with our CEO grant to Joey and not counted because of performance triggers related to those shares. So that is a -- that's the delta between the [85 million and the 82 million].

好的。我可以兩者都拿，而 Joey 也可以加入。增量是與我們的 CEO 授予 Joey 相關的股票計數與由於與這些股票相關的績效觸發因素而未計入的股票之間的份額。這就是 [8500 萬和 8200 萬] 之間的增量。

With respect to your question, there's an inherent philosophical question, which is focused on having the best of the Internet or a subset of the Internet in terms of what they're learning and their models learn in. One of the key elements of search and the Internet to date has been identifying the best, as Joey likes to say, in surfacing incredibly rapidly for individuals and doing that in a constantly evolving way that is ideally in a fair and meritocratic manner to use the best of the Internet.

關於你的問題，有一個固有的哲學問題，其重點是在他們正在學習的內容和他們的模型所學習的內容方面擁有互聯網或互聯網子集的最佳內容。搜索和學習的關鍵要素之一正如喬伊喜歡說的那樣，迄今為止，互聯網一直在識別最好的東西，以令人難以置信的速度為個人提供服務，並以不斷發展的方式做到這一點，理想情況下是以公平和精英的方式來利用最好的互聯網。

If they choose a subset of content to train these models, they will have inferior results. They will have a narrower and less expansive body of information from which they are providing answers to consumers. And as evidenced by the inaccuracy of answers to date and hallucination, as they call it, greater risk of that. That seems to be reversing many of the best things of the Internet and decades of progress and information provisioning.

如果他們選擇內容的子集來訓練這些模型，他們將得到較差的結果。他們將擁有更狹窄、更廣泛的信息，並從中向消費者提供答案。正如迄今為止的答案不准確和他們所說的幻覺所證明的那樣，這種情況的風險更大。這似乎正在扭轉互聯網的許多最好的東西以及數十年的進步和信息提供。

Okay. Thank you, operator. Thank you all for the questions, and have a good day.

好的。謝謝你，接線員。謝謝大家的提問，祝您有美好的一天。

Thanks, everybody. So long.

謝謝大家。這麼久。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連接。