American Well Corp (AMWL) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to Amwell's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持，歡迎參加 Amwell 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

I would now like to hand the call over to Sue Dooley, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將電話轉給投資人關係主管 Sue Dooley。請繼續。

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Amwell's conference call to discuss our fourth fiscal quarter of 2024. This is Sue Dooley of Amwell Investor Relations. Joining me today are: Amwell's Chairman and CEO, Dr. Ido Schoenberg; and Mark Hirschhorn, our CFO and Chief Operating Officer.

大家好。歡迎參加 Amwell 的電話會議，討論我們的 2024 財年第四季。我是 Amwell 投資者關係部門的 Sue Dooley。今天與我一起出席的有：Amwell 董事長兼執行長 Ido Schoenberg 博士；以及我們的財務長兼營運長馬克·赫希霍恩（Mark Hirschhorn）。

Earlier today, we distributed a press release detailing our announcement. Our earnings report is posted on our website at investors.amwell.com and is also available through normal news sources. This conference call is being webcast live on the IR page of our website, where a replay will be archived.

今天早些時候，我們發布了一份新聞稿，詳細介紹了我們的公告。我們的收益報告發佈在我們的網站 investor.amwell.com 上，也可以透過正常的新聞來源取得。本次電話會議將在我們網站的 IR 頁面上進行網路直播，並將存檔重播。

Before we begin our prepared remarks, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you that during the call, we will make forward-looking statements regarding projected operating results and anticipated market opportunities. This forward-looking information is subject to the risks and uncertainties described in our filings with the SEC, and actual results or events may differ materially.

在我們開始準備好的發言之前，我想藉此機會提醒您，在電話會議中，我們將就預計的經營業績和預期的市場機會做出前瞻性的陳述。此前瞻性資訊受我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述的風險和不確定性的影響，實際結果或事件可能存在重大差異。

Except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update or revise these forward-looking statements. On the call, we'll refer to both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP financial measures is provided in our posted earnings release.

除法律要求外，我們不承擔更新或修改這些前瞻性聲明的義務。在電話會議中，我們將參考 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。我們在公佈的收益報告中提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Ido.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給 Ido。

Thank you, Sue, and good evening, everyone. Q4 marked the close of a transformative year for Amwell. In 2024, we refreshed and refined our strategy. We increased our focus on our core mission and matured our company to deliver efficiently. We also prepared to realize the potential of our unified technology-enabled care platform.

謝謝你，蘇，大家晚上好。第四季標誌著 Amwell 轉型之年的結束。2024年，我們更新並完善了我們的策略。我們更加關注我們的核心使命，並使公司更加成熟，以便有效率地完成任務。我們也準備好發揮統一技術支援的護理平台的潛力。

I want to start by sharing some of our key accomplishments of the year: first, together with our latest partners, we are completing the stage launch of our full solution across the Military Health System, our most significant growth initiative in the company's history.

首先，我想分享我們今年取得的一些主要成就：首先，我們與最新的合作夥伴一起，完成了整個軍事衛生系統完整解決方案的階段性發布，這是公司歷史上最重要的成長舉措。

Second, we made significant progress in our path to achieving cash flow positive results next year, while further strengthening our robust cash position. We drove efficiency with focused cost reduction measures. We also improved our quality of revenue and margins. These initiatives are showing up in a steady, better-than-expected quarterly improvements in our adjusted EBITDA.

其次，我們在實現明年現金流為正的道路上取得了重大進展，同時進一步增強了我們強勁的現金狀況。我們透過有針對性的成本削減措施來提高效率。我們也提高了收入和利潤的品質。這些舉措體現在我們調整後的 EBITDA 季度穩定、好於預期的改善。

Third, we established a leaner and more nimble leadership structure, which we believe will sharpen the focus and efficiency of our company as we advance our efforts to propel profitable growth. The highlight of these changes is the expansion of Mark Hirschhorn's role beyond CFO to include Chief Operating Officer.

第三，我們建立了更精簡、更靈活的領導結構，我們相信，在我們推動獲利成長的過程中，這將增強公司的專注度和效率。這些變化的亮點是馬克·赫希霍恩的職責從首席財務官擴展到首席營運長。

This year, we're establishing the groundwork for positive cash flow in 2026. The drivers underscoring these initiatives are increasing subscription software revenues and aligning our costs. We are targeting a meaningful margin expansion; and this year, we aim to improve our adjusted EBITDA by over 60%.

今年，我們正在為 2026 年實現正現金流奠定基礎。這些舉措的驅動因素是增加訂閱軟體收入並調整我們的成本。我們的目標是大幅擴大利潤率；今年，我們的目標是將調整後的 EBITDA 提高 60% 以上。

I would now like to take a moment to briefly review a few other accomplishments from our Q4. As we continue to evaluate our portfolio of assets, we divested Amwell Psychiatric Care, our legacy psychiatric staffing business. We determined that APC did not meet our threshold of being an integral part of the Amwell core offering and was not advancing our profitable growth.

現在，我想花點時間簡要回顧一下我們在第四季度取得的其他一些成就。當我們繼續評估我們的資產組合時，我們剝離了我們的傳統精神病患配置業務 Amwell Psychiatric Care。我們認為 APC 未能達到成為 Amwell 核心產品不可或缺的一部分的門檻，而且未能促進我們的獲利成長。

This transaction helped us focus our resources on our core platform and bolsters our balance sheet significantly by adding up to $30 million in cash. Also during Q4, we signed an agreement to add Vida Health to our growing portfolio of clinical programs, expanding patient access to obesity and diabetes care, including GLP-1s.

這筆交易幫助我們將資源集中在核心平台上，並透過增加3000萬美元的現金大大增強了我們的資產負債表。此外，在第四季度，我們簽署了一項協議，將 Vida Health 添加到我們不斷增長的臨床項目組合中，擴大患者獲得肥胖症和糖尿病治療的機會，包括 GLP-1。

With this partnership, our clients can offer patients a broader set of valuable services through their Amwell platform. Our platform provides individuals with a delightful, single-entry point to a comprehensive array of clinical and behavioral programs, including obesity care and related illnesses.

透過此次合作，我們的客戶可以透過他們的 Amwell 平台為患者提供更廣泛的有價值的服務。我們的平台為個人提供了一個令人愉快的單一入口點，可以進入全面的臨床和行為計劃，包括肥胖護理和相關疾病。

In Q4, we delivered considerable value for our clients, led by our DHA deployment. Since our last update, we can share that many of our programs are now fully deployed across the Military Health Systems and feedback is very positive. The remainder of our programs will be live across the AMHS enterprise in the first half of the year with the final expansion of on-demand visits and complete international deployment expected in early Q3.

在第四季度，我們以 DHA 部署為主導，為客戶帶來了可觀的價值。自上次更新以來，我們可以分享的是，我們的許多項目現在已全面部署到軍事衛生系統中，而且反饋非常積極。我們的其餘專案將於今年上半年在 AMHS 企業內上線，按需存取的最終擴展和完整的國際部署預計於第三季初完成。

And we completed renewals across several Blue Cross Blue Shield plans as well as with a large national health plan in Nevada, The Clinic, and Intermountain Healthcare. Importantly, the HSC in Ireland continues expanding its use of our Digital Behavioral Health programs. Our Q4 performance demonstrates our existing client base is a fertile ground for future growth.

我們也完成了與數個藍十字藍盾計畫以及內華達州的一家大型國家健康計畫、The Clinic 和 Intermountain Healthcare 的續約。重要的是，愛爾蘭的 HSC 繼續擴大我們的數位行為健康計劃的使用。我們第四季的業績表明，我們現有的客戶群是未來成長的沃土。

In addition to the strong software growth we are guiding for this year, our sales insights are resulting in improved visibility as we look to expand further across the commercial and government space. We are expanding our deal pipeline.

除了我們今年預期的強勁軟體成長之外，我們的銷售洞察力也提高了知名度，因為我們希望進一步拓展商業和政府領域。我們正在擴大我們的交易管道。

RFP traction with payers and health systems is significantly larger and of higher quality today than it was at this point last year. And based on our effective execution in the government space, we have in our sights expanding our market opportunity there. On the heels of this progress, we enter 2025 with momentum and unprecedented focus with market dynamics working in our favor.

與去年同期相比，如今 RFP 對付款人和醫療系統的吸引力明顯更大，品質也更高。並且基於我們在政府領域的有效執行，我們的目標是擴大那裡的市場機會。在這一進步的基礎上，我們將以強勁的勢頭和前所未有的專注力進入 2025 年，市場動態也將對我們有利。

Outside Amwell, we observed two trends that could help accelerate our growth, growing consumer readiness to start their health care journey online and expansion in innovators offering new and improved technology-enabled clinical programs.

在 Amwell 之外，我們觀察到兩種可以幫助加速我們成長的趨勢：消費者越來越願意開始線上醫療保健之旅，以及創新者越來越多地提供新的和改進的技術支援的臨床項目。

With our success in strategic deployments like the Military Health System, we believe we have cemented our role as the technology-enabled care partners that health care organizations are turning to as they seek to modernize and achieve operational and clinical goals.

憑藉我們在軍事衛生系統等戰略部署中的成功，我們相信，我們已經鞏固了我們作為技術支援的護理合作夥伴的角色，醫療保健組織在尋求現代化和實現運營和臨床目標時正在向這些組織求助。

Here's how we are seeing this play out: As more patients go online to get care, our platform offers a single, delightful patient experience to help orchestrate access to a large and growing number of clinical programs. Payers and health systems value being able to offer one comprehensive technology-enabled care solution fully embedded in their own digital assets.

我們看到的情況是這樣的：隨著越來越多的患者上網尋求醫療服務，我們的平台提供了單一、愉快的患者體驗，幫助他們協調訪問大量且不斷增長的臨床項目。付款人和醫療系統重視能夠提供一個完全嵌入自己的數位資產的綜合技術支援的護理解決方案。

They see the benefit of having a common patient care access pathway, making patient acquisition and retention more effective. Payers and health systems also like the flexibility of dynamically choosing their preferred set of clinical programs and offering different ones to varied patient cohorts. They desire the convenience and efficiency of having Amwell integrate relationships with multiple clinical program vendors.

他們看到了擁有共同的患者護理獲取途徑的好處，可以更有效地獲取和保留患者。付款人和醫療系統也喜歡靈活地動態選擇他們喜歡的臨床方案並向不同的患者群體提供不同的方案。他們希望 Amwell 能夠方便、有效率地整合與多個臨床專案供應商的關係。

Finally, our investments in a common longitudinal patient-centric data structure is resonating with them. Payers and health systems see it as a powerful instrument to improve navigation and patient experience with the promise of unified analytics and reporting.

最後，我們對以患者為中心的共同縱向資料結構的投資得到了他們的共鳴。付款人和醫療系統將其視為一種強大的工具，可透過統一的分析和報告來改善導航和患者體驗。

In addition, as more innovators leverage technologies like artificial intelligence and machine learning to offer more effective clinical programs, they too reach out to us. Integrating with the Amwell platform allows them to reduce customer acquisition costs, demonstrate better engagement, and drive results.

此外，隨著越來越多的創新者利用人工智慧和機器學習等技術提供更有效的臨床方案，他們也向我們伸出了援手。與 Amwell 平台整合可以讓他們降低客戶獲取成本、展示更好的參與度並推動成果。

We are encouraged by the clarity of our value proposition and the way it is resonating across the market. With our healthy balance sheet and improved financial visibility, we have high conviction in our path to profitability, supported by the following top priorities. First is growth. We will work to deliver excellence, showcase our value and accelerate growth by working with our strategic partners and by expanding our presence within existing clients.

我們的價值主張清晰且在市場上引起共鳴，這令我們備受鼓舞。憑藉健康的資產負債表和改善的財務透明度，我們對獲利之路充滿信心，並得到以下首要任務的支持。首先是成長。我們將透過與策略合作夥伴的合作以及擴大我們在現有客戶中的影響力，努力提供卓越的服務，展示我們的價值並加速成長。

Our key growth initiatives for 2025 include: full execution on our deliverable with the Military Health System; actively opening new government channels; pursuing new payer and health system contracts in competitive RFPs; and adding several more third-party clinical solutions to our platform, bolstering our high-margin revenue contribution over time.

我們 2025 年的關鍵成長計畫包括：全面執行與軍事衛生系統的合作成果；積極開拓新的政務管道；在競爭性 RFP 中尋求新的付款人和醫療系統合約；並在我們的平台上添加了更多的第三方臨床解決方案，從而隨著時間的推移增強我們高利潤的收入貢獻。

Second is realizing a higher mix of highly predictable recurring revenue. By aligning our existing and new product initiatives with our revenue quality goals, we will continue to improve our revenue mix of subscription-based software.

第二是實現高度可預測的經常性收入的更高組合。透過使我們現有和新產品計劃與我們的收入品質目標保持一致，我們將繼續改善基於訂閱的軟體的收入組合。

Finally, and critically importan, is efficiency. We will continue reducing our overall costs while focusing on our core Amwell portfolio of services, centering the energies of our company behind monetizing our platform.

最後，至關重要的是效率。我們將繼續降低整體成本，同時專注於我們的核心 Amwell 服務組合，將公司精力集中在平台貨幣化上。

In summary, during 2025, we will pursue these key initiatives as we continue to enable the digital aspirations of health care organizations with long-term profitable growth well within our sights.

總而言之，在 2025 年，我們將繼續推行這些關鍵舉措，繼續實現醫療保健組織的數位化願望，並實現長期獲利成長。

With that, I would like to turn the call over to Mark to review our financials, our strategic priorities for the coming year and our guidance. Mark?

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給馬克，讓他回顧我們的財務狀況、明年的策略重點和我們的指導。標記？

Thank you, Ido, and good evening to everyone on the call. I've completed my first 100 days at Amwell, and I'm very pleased with what I have learned. I recently shared with our Board many of the initiatives that are underway. I'm very optimistic that we have the right people to lead this company back to a position of market strength. Our Board and our employees are excited for 2025.

謝謝你，Ido，祝電話中的各位嘉賓晚上好。我在 Amwell 完成了第一個 100 天，對自己學到的知識感到非常滿意。我最近與董事會分享了許多正在進行的舉措。我非常樂觀地認為，我們能找到合適的人才來帶領公司重返市場強勢地位。我們的董事會和員工對 2025 年充滿期待。

We have the greatest visibility into our revenues today as compared to any other time in this company's history. Tonight, I will walk you through a few operating metrics and financial results from Q4 and then review our guidance for 2025.

與公司歷史上的任何時候相比，我們今天對收入的了解最為透徹。今晚，我將向您介紹第四季度的一些營運指標和財務結果，然後回顧我們對 2025 年的指導。

The financial highlights of our Q4 include progress toward our key strategic initiatives. Software revenue grew well over 30% over Q3's results on the strength of strategic client deployments. We accelerated our adjusted EBITDA improvements for the third quarter in a row as we continue to focus on growing software and aligning our cost structure with our revenue base.

我們第四季的財務亮點包括我們關鍵策略舉措的進展。由於策略客戶部署的強勁成長，軟體收入較第三季成長超過 30%。由於我們繼續專注於發展軟體並使成本結構與收入基礎保持一致，我們連續第三個季度加快了調整後 EBITDA 的成長。

With the previously announced divestiture of Amwell Psychiatric Care, we took action to focus our portfolio of assets and strengthen our balance sheet. Most importantly, as Ido said, we have demonstrated continued progress with our two most strategic objectives: specifically, the staged launch of our full solution across the Military Health System and the cost initiatives that reinforce our confidence in our path to generating positive cash flows from operations during 2026.

隨著先前宣布剝離 Amwell Psychiatric Care，我們採取行動集中資產組合併加強資產負債表。最重要的是，正如伊多所說，我們在兩個最具戰略性的目標上取得了持續進展：具體來說，就是分階段推出整個軍事衛生系統的完整解決方案，以及成本計劃，這增強了我們對在 2026 年實現正現金流運營的信心。

We have committed ourselves to executing these initiatives that will ultimately drive value to our company. So now let me share some of our Q4 financial results: total revenue was $71 million for the quarter, which is flat to Q4 2023. Revenue mix here is the more important metric as subscription revenue was $37 million in Q4, up 36% from a year ago.

我們致力於執行這些舉措，最終為我們的公司帶來價值。現在讓我分享我們的一些第四季度財務業績：本季總收入為 7,100 萬美元，與 2023 年第四季持平。這裡的營收組合是更重要的指標，因為第四季的訂閱收入為 3,700 萬美元，比去年同期成長 36%。

We had a material uplift in the Q4 subscription software revenue related to the staged launch of our solution across the Military Health System, which is the most significant growth initiative in the company's history.

由於我們在整個軍事健康系統分階段推出解決方案，我們的第四季度訂閱軟體收入實現了大幅提升，這是該公司歷史上最重要的成長舉措。

Turning to visit metrics. We completed approximately 1.4 million visits in the fourth quarter, which is approximately 18% lower than a year ago. We spoke on our Q3 call about some market-wide and client execution-related softness in visits and visits were, in fact, in line with our adjusted expectations for the quarter. Visits on Converge remained steady at close to 70% of our total visits.

轉向訪問指標。我們在第四季完成了約 140 萬次訪問，比一年前下降約 18%。我們在第三季電話會議上談到了一些與整個市場和客戶執行相關的訪問量疲軟的情況，事實上，這符合我們對本季的調整預期。Converge 上的訪問量保持穩定，接近總訪問量的 70%。

Visits on Converge is a helpful indicator of migration activity. With the bulk of migrations now behind us, we no longer believe this metric is important to our key strategic initiatives, and we will sunset this metric going forward.

Converge 上的訪問量是遷移活動的一個有用指標。隨著大部分遷移工作已經完成，我們不再認為這項指標對於我們的關鍵策略措施十分重要，並且我們將在未來取消這項指標。

However, an important metric in our business is our average Annual Contract Value, or ACV, which is a great indicator of the success of our land-and-expand strategy. Health plan ACV grew to $963,000 from $902,000 in 2024, and ACV for health systems expanded to $488,000 from $415,000 in 2024. We expect ACV for both groups to continue to expand as we grow our footprint within existing clients and add new clients over time.

然而，我們業務中的一個重要指標是我們的平均年度合約價值（ACV），它是我們登陸和擴張策略成功的重要指標。健康計劃 ACV 將從 2024 年的 902,000 美元增至 963,000 美元，健康系統的 ACV 將從 2024 年的 415,000 美元增至 488,000 美元。我們預計，隨著我們在現有客戶中的影響力不斷擴大以及新客戶的不斷增加，這兩個集團的 ACV 將繼續擴大。

AMG's Q4 visit revenue trended 9% lower than last year at $29.2 million. Average revenue per visit was $77, which is 7% higher this quarter compared to last year. This increase was driven by a mix shift within AMG visits towards virtual primary care and specialty programs.

AMG 第四季的訪問收入比去年下降 9%，至 2,920 萬美元。每次造訪的平均收入為 77 美元，本季比去年同期高出 7%。這一增長是由於 AMG 就診量向虛擬初級保健和專科計劃的轉變所致。

Our AMG business continues to be strategically important to enabling client expansions and new client wins and for overall support of our efforts to grow recurring software revenues. Our Service and Carepoint's revenue was $4.9 million for the quarter versus $7.3 million last quarter.

我們的 AMG 業務對於實現客戶擴展和贏得新客戶以及全面支持我們增加經常性軟體收入的努力繼續具有戰略重要性。我們的服務和 Carepoint 本季的收入為 490 萬美元，而上一季的收入為 730 萬美元。

This decrease was driven primarily by timing of marketing revenue. The nature of our business drives variable revenues due to customer buying patterns for marketing programs and for Carepoint's, as well as the timing of professional service milestones that precede deployments.

這一下降主要歸因於行銷收入的時間安排。由於客戶對於行銷計劃和 Carepoint 的購買模式，以及部署先前的專業服務里程碑的時間安排，我們業務的性質決定了收入的變化。

Turning now to gross profit. Our fourth quarter gross profit margin was 48%, higher by 11 points compared to Q3. For the full year, our gross margin was 39%, which was slightly higher than the 37% we finished with in 2023.

現在來談談毛利。我們第四季的毛利率為48%，比第三季高出11個百分點。全年我們的毛利率為 39%，略高於 2023 年的 37%。

On to operating expenses. We continue to make substantial progress towards normalizing R&D spending. While maintaining our focus on deploying our solution for the DHA, our R&D expenses in Q4 were $18.8 million, a decline of approximately 29% compared to the $26.3 million we spent in Q4 of 2023.

關於營運費用。我們在規範研發支出方面持續取得實質進展。在繼續專注於部署 DHA 解決方案的同時，我們第四季度的研發費用為 1,880 萬美元，與 2023 年第四季的 2,630 萬美元相比下降了約 29%。

Sales and marketing expenses were $15.4 million. That's approximately 8% lower than last quarter and nearly 29% lower than last year's comparable quarter, driven by our cost initiatives.

銷售和行銷費用為 1540 萬美元。這比上一季下降約 8%，比去年同期下降近 29%，這得益於我們的成本措施。

G&A expenses were $34.8 million, which was approximately 38% higher than last quarter, primarily due to a one-time bad debt accrual related to losses caused by the Change Healthcare cyber event that occurred in the first quarter of 2024. G&A remains a meaningful focus of our ongoing cost initiatives.

一般及行政費用為 3,480 萬美元，比上一季高出約 38%，主要由於 2024 年第一季發生的 Change Healthcare 網路事件造成的損失相關的一次性壞帳提列。一般及行政事務仍然是我們正在進行的成本計劃中關注的重點。

So we now have completed another consecutive quarter that highlights our key initiatives from 2024. We are delivering on the promise of growing our subscription software revenue while being well on our way to reshaping our foundational cost basis. As a result, adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was negative $22.8 million versus negative $36.9 million in Q4 2023.

因此，我們現在又完成了一個連續季度，突顯了我們 2024 年的關鍵舉措。我們正在履行增加訂閱軟體收入的承諾，同時也在重塑我們的基礎成本基礎的道路上。因此，本季的調整後 EBITDA 為負 2,280 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為負 3,690 萬美元。

There is a great energetic team here at Amwell that is fully aligned with delivering the novel health care products, services and efficiencies that we successfully deliver to our clients every single day. Finally, with respect to cash and liquidity, we ended the fourth quarter with $228 million in cash and marketable securities with zero debt. And now, I would like to turn to our guidance for 2025.

Amwell 擁有一支充滿活力的優秀團隊，他們全力以赴，每天都致力於向客戶提供新穎的醫療保健產品、服務和效率。最後，關於現金和流動性，我們在第四季結束時擁有 2.28 億美元現金和有價證券，且零債務。現在，我想談談我們對 2025 年的指導。

This year, the high-margin revenue growth we are guiding for is underscored by our focus on expanding our mix of subscription software revenues, taking a conservative view on visit volumes while further reducing costs. With this in mind, here are the details for our annual revenue and adjusted EBITDA guidance.

今年，我們預期的高利潤收入成長突顯了我們專注於擴大訂閱軟體收入組合，對訪問量持保守態度，同時進一步降低成本。考慮到這一點，以下是我們年度收入和調整後的 EBITDA 指引的詳細資訊。

We expect revenue for the full year 2025 to be in the range of $250 million to $260 million. This revenue guidance excludes the more than $25 million that we would have expected from APC in 2025. Importantly, with the most strategic elements of our revenue base intact, we anticipate subscription revenue to meaningfully grow to represent nearly 60% of total 2025 revenues.

我們預計 2025 年全年營收將在 2.5 億美元至 2.6 億美元之間。該收入預期不包括我們預計 2025 年 APC 的收入超過 2500 萬美元。重要的是，在我們的收入基礎中最具策略性的要素保持完整的情況下，我們預計訂閱收入將大幅成長，佔 2025 年總收入的近 60%。

Our range for AMG visits is between 1.3 million and 1.35 million visits. We expect our 2025 adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of negative $55 million to negative $45 million, which demonstrates a 60% improvement year-over-year.

我們的 AMG 訪問量範圍在 130 萬至 135 萬次之間。我們預計 2025 年調整後的 EBITDA 將在負 5,500 萬美元至負 4,500 萬美元之間，年增 60%。

Here are some additional context around our assumptions. We are on track to further reduce our R&D expense by more than 10% this year versus 2024 as we streamline and complete the bulk of our software configuration work for our existing commitments.

以下是有關我們假設的一些補充背景資訊。隨著我們簡化並完成現有承諾的大部分軟體配置工作，我們預計將今年的研發費用與 2024 年相比進一步減少 10% 以上。

Overall, we expect sales and marketing costs to decline around 25% year-over-year. We expect to reduce our G&A expense beyond 20% for the year as we continue to organize the company around a new lower cost structure.

總體而言，我們預計銷售和行銷成本將年減 25% 左右。隨著我們繼續按照新的低成本結構來組織公司，我們預計今年的 G&A 費用將減少 20% 以上。

As we complete the bulk of our government work and continue the staged go-lives of our solution across the Military Health System, there are some anticipated quarterly software revenue timing dynamics that we believe will be helpful to articulate here.

隨著我們完成大部分政府工作並繼續在軍事衛生系統中分階段推行我們的解決方案，我們認為，在這裡闡明一些預期的季度軟體收入時間動態將會有所幫助。

And so at this time, we are providing some additional guidance, including for the first quarter of 2025. Here are the details: we expect revenue for the first quarter of 2025 to be in the range of $59 million to $61 million. As to adjusted EBITDA, we expect our first quarter adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of negative $18 million to negative $20 million.

因此，目前我們提供了一些額外的指導，包括 2025 年第一季的指導。詳情如下：我們預計 2025 年第一季的營收將在 5,900 萬美元至 6,100 萬美元之間。至於調整後的 EBITDA，我們預期第一季調整後的 EBITDA 在負 1,800 萬美元至負 2,000 萬美元之間。

Also important to consider is that as we continue the go-live work in Q2, we anticipate a one-time step-up in DHA software-related revenues, normalizing slightly below the Q2 level into the remainder of 2025, with total software revenue ending the year at nearly 60% of total consolidated revenue. Wrapping up, we are encouraged by the strides we have made in our business.

同樣需要考慮的重要一點是，隨著我們在第二季度繼續上線工作，我們預計 DHA 軟體相關收入將出現一次性增長，在 2025 年剩餘時間內將正常化到略低於第二季度的水平，到年底總軟體收入將佔總合併收入的近 60%。總而言之，我們對業務上的進步感到鼓舞。

And in Q4, we made some solid progress toward the goals which support our confidence in our path to generating positive cash flows from operations during 2026. We anticipate that Amwell will end 2025 with approximately $190 million in cash and in excess of $150 million in cash at year-end 2026. Thank you for participating this afternoon. And with that, I'd like to turn the call back to Ido for some closing remarks. Ido?

在第四季度，我們朝著目標取得了一些堅實的進展，這增強了我們對在 2026 年實現正營運現金流的信心。我們預計，到 2025 年底，Amwell 的現金將約為 1.9 億美元，到 2026 年底，現金將超過 1.5 億美元。感謝您今天下午的參與。最後，我想請伊多發表一些結束語。我願意？

Thank you, Mark. As we turn the page to 2025, we begin the year with an unprecedented focus on our key operational initiatives for the year, which center on unlocking the value in our company and pursuing our mission.

謝謝你，馬克。當我們翻開 2025 年的新篇章時，我們以前所未有的重點關註今年的關鍵營運計劃，這些計劃的核心是釋放公司的價值和追求我們的使命。

We will now open the call to questions. Operator, please go ahead. Thank you.

我們現在開始提問。接線員，請繼續。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Craig Hettenbach, Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指示） Craig Hettenbach，摩根士丹利。

Thank you. I had a question on DHA. Can you just talk about how it's progressing relative to your initial expectations? Any key milestones for the rest of this year? And then outside of DHA for the software subscription, can you touch on just how that -- the growth expectations in the broader business are for 2025?

謝謝。我對 DHA 有疑問。您能談談相對於您最初的預期目前進展如何嗎？今年剩餘時間有什麼重要里程碑嗎？然後，除了 DHA 軟體訂閱之外，您能否談談 2025 年更廣泛業務的成長預期？

I'm so sorry. Can you hear me now? Yes. Hi Craig, thank you for this important question. The DHA deployment is going as well, maybe better than we hoped and expected.

我很抱歉。現在你能聽到我的聲音嗎？是的。你好，Craig，謝謝你提出這個重要的問題。DHA 的部署進展順利，可能比我們希望和預期的要好。

It's fair to say that the lion's share, if not all the different components and programs are customized and implemented for the partner and the client, and you know the list of those components. We actually started enterprise deployment for most of those components and expect the full deployment -- enterprise deployment to be completed this year.

可以公平地說，大部分（如果不是全部）不同的組件和程序都是為合作夥伴和客戶定制和實施的，並且您知道這些組件的清單。實際上，我們已經開始對大多數元件進行企業部署，預計將全面部署——企業部署將在今年完成。

We have -- we are seeing very good traction, very good results and getting very good feedback from both our partner, Leidos, who is exceptionally helpful and of course, our client there. I would add to that, that what we are doing there is really implementing our -- the Amwell platform, our infrastructure, our software infrastructure to connect all the NHS providers with the large community of 9.6 million men and women in uniform and their families, which is not unlike what we do for many other payers and health systems.

我們看到了非常好的牽引力、非常好的結果，並從我們的合作夥伴 Leidos（他非常樂於助人）和我們在那裡的客戶那裡得到了非常好的反饋。我想補充一點，我們在那裡所做的實際上是實施我們的 Amwell 平台、我們的基礎設施、我們的軟體基礎設施，將所有 NHS 提供者與 960 萬穿制服的男女軍人及其家人組成的龐大社區聯繫起來，這與我們為許多其他付款人和醫療系統所做的工作並無不同。

We are seeing a very clear change in the demand for technology-enabled care platform, both in payers and providers as evidenced by significant growth of our overall pipeline; and much more importantly, by the quality of our pipeline that favors significantly higher-margin software components with a good traction for renewals, expansions, and new logo bookings.

我們看到，無論是付款方還是提供者，對技術支援的護理平台的需求發生了非常明顯的變化，這從我們整體產品線的顯著增長中可以看出；更重要的是，我們的管道品質有利於利潤率更高的軟體組件，並且對續約、擴展和新標誌預訂具有良好的吸引力。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Stan Berenshteyn, Wells Fargo Securities.

富國證券的 Stan Berenshteyn。

Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe a quick follow-up on the DHA contract. So it's running -- the original contract is to run through July. Do you have any visibility on the timing of when the sustainment contract is going to be signed?

你好。感謝您回答我的問題。也許是 DHA 合約的快速跟進。因此，原定合約將持續到七月。您是否清楚維護合約的簽署時間？

So here's what we know, Stan. We know that in Q4, the DHA announced providing Leidos with a sole source grant for this project. And this project is talking about an extension of three more years, not only to our component that was named specifically in this grant, but to a much larger deployment that includes the Oracle EHR and other components. We also know, as I mentioned earlier, that the deployment is going very well. It's vast.

這就是我們所知道的，史丹。我們知道，DHA 在第四季度宣佈為 Leidos 提供該專案的單一來源補助。此專案計劃再延長三年，不僅涵蓋我們在此項撥款中特別提到的元件，還涵蓋包括 Oracle EHR 和其他元件在內的更大規模的部署。正如我之前提到的，我們也知道部署進展非常順利。它非常廣闊。

It's going enterprise globally as we speak with very good results. So where we don't have certainty for this to close, we believe that closing this extension is a very low risk to not happen at this point, and we fully expect to be notified it when our partner and clients are ready to share the news with the public.

如今，它正在全球開展業務，並且取得了良好的效果。因此，雖然我們不確定是否會關閉這一延期，但我們認為，目前關閉這一延期的風險非常低，我們完全希望在我們的合作夥伴和客戶準備與公眾分享這一消息時收到通知。

Got it. And maybe just a quick one for Mark on the divested business. Is the revenue impact from the divestiture entirely in visit revenue? Or did it have a subscription component as well? And what was the mix, if that was the case? Thanks.

知道了。也許我只想快速地向馬克介紹一下剝離業務的情況。資產剝離對收入的影響是否完全體現在訪問收入上？或者它也有一個訂閱元件嗎？如果確實如此，那麼混合物是什麼呢？謝謝。

Yeah. That would be an annualized number of in excess of $25 million spend, and that would be also all visits.

是的。這意味著每年的支出將超過 2500 萬美元，而且這還涵蓋了所有的訪問次數。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Jailendra Singh, Truist Securities.

Jailendra Singh，Truist Securities。

Thank you. Thanks for taking my question. I want to ask about ACV for health plans and health systems improved like nicely in 2024. Based on trends you're seeing in your conversations, anything you can share in terms of what your expectations are this year?

謝謝。感謝您回答我的問題。我想詢問有關 ACV 的問題，因為 2024 年健康計劃和健康系統將得到很好的改善。根據您在談話中看到的趨勢，您可以分享您對今年的期望嗎？

And just related to that, at a high level, I mean, clearly, a very, very good job in terms of how you are progressing on EBITDA improvement and profitability or path to profitability. But the top line, I mean, clearly, not much growth for the last few years. I mean, DHA contract is definitely helping in '25 to offset this sale.

與此相關的是，從高層次來看，我的意思是，顯然，就 EBITDA 改善和盈利能力或盈利途徑而言，你們做得非常非常好。但我的意思是，營收方面，顯然過去幾年並沒有太大的成長。我的意思是，DHA 合約肯定有助於在 25 年抵消這筆銷售。

But any thoughts that you can share about the underlying top-line growth in the business longer term? How do you feel about it? Have your excitement about the industry and moving parts changed anyway? Just trying to understand that how should people feel comfortable about the top line growth longer term for this business?

但是，您可以分享一下有關長期業務潛在營收成長的想法嗎？你對此有何感想？您對這個行業和運動部件的興趣有改變嗎？只是想了解人們應該如何對該業務的長期營收成長感到滿意？

Thank you, Jailendra. So as Mark mentioned, we do show if you take out APC, we do guide for some significant growth already this year. And we are very, very optimistic this year and beyond it, our optimism is based on our much larger pipeline and much better quality of pipeline that favors subscription in a very material way.

謝謝你，Jailendra。正如馬克所提到的，我們確實表明，如果你拿出 APC，我們今年已經預計會出現一些顯著的成長。我們對今年及以後的發展都非常樂觀，我們的樂觀是基於我們規模更大、品質更好的管道，這在實質上有利於訂閱。

The successful deployment of the DHA is definitely a good indicator for the future, not only in the government market, but its large deployment at scale overall. The dialogue with health plan and health system shows clearly that they are very much aware of the importance of their own digital assets and want to enable technology-enabled care from those assets for reasons that I think apparent to most of the audience on this call.

DHA 的成功部署無疑是未來的一個很好的指標，不僅在政府市場，而且在整體大規模部署中。與健康計劃和健康系統的對話清楚地表明，他們非常清楚自己的數位資產的重要性，並希望利用這些資產實現技術支援的醫療服務，原因我認為大多數與會者都很清楚。

They keep understanding and reiterating the value that we provide, and they see the value of a singular customer acquisition and retention pathway for enabling care, one layer of care orchestration and a dynamic set of clinical programs that is covering the full care continuum and generating unified reporting for further personalization, further attraction, and further monetizing or monitoring the ROI.

他們不斷理解和重申我們提供的價值，他們看到了單一客戶獲取和保留途徑的價值，以實現護理、一層護理協調和一套動態的臨床計劃，涵蓋整個護理過程並產生統一的報告，以進一步個性化、進一步吸引人，並進一步貨幣化或監控投資回報率。

This is witnessed in good traction in retention, and good traction in expansion. It's important to note that our business model now does not only include our own software and our own clinical programs, but a way to monetize all those third-party clinical program as well as the secular trends continue.

這體現在保留時的良好牽引力和擴展時的良好牽引力。值得注意的是，我們現在的商業模式不僅包括我們自己的軟體和我們自己的臨床項目，還包括將所有第三方臨床項目貨幣化的方式以及長期趨勢的持續。

So as the churn is normalizing, as demand is growing significantly. And as I mentioned earlier, as more people go online to those digital assets to seek care and receive it through us, we see a very significant opportunity for higher-margin growth over the next few years.

因此，隨著客戶流失逐漸正常化，需求也大幅成長。正如我之前提到的，隨著越來越多的人上網使用這些數位資產來尋求醫療服務並透過我們獲得醫療服務，我們看到未來幾年實現更高利潤成長的巨大機會。

But we would like to be very cautious in how we guide, and that's the guidance that we put in front of you today, which we believe is realistic. And the lion's share of it is already contracted, and we see it as a very low risk.

但我們希望在指導方式上非常謹慎，這就是我們今天向你們提出的指導，我們相信這是現實的。其中大部分已經簽約，我們認為風險非常低。

Okay. Thank you, Ido.

好的。謝謝你，伊多。

Eric Percher, Nephron.

艾瑞克·佩徹（Eric Percher），Nephron。

Thank you. I have two questions for Mark. I guess the first one will be a CFO-hat question, which is if we look at the comment around visibility relative to the past, can you walk us through the dependency outside of DHA this year and any key variables as you look at the guidance?

謝謝。我有兩個問題要問馬克。我想第一個問題將是一個 CFO-hat 問題，也就是說，如果我們看一下相對於過去的可見性的評論，您能否向我們介紹一下今年 DHA 之外的依賴關係以及您查看指導時的任何關鍵變量？

And then with the new role, I'll ask you with the COO hat. As you look at the changes to sales strategy as you launch DHA for government -- for other government business, are there significant changes that you expect over the course of the year and/or any changes for the rest of the market?

然後對於新的角色，我會問你一下首席營運長 (COO) 的帽子。在為政府和其他政府業務推出 DHA 時，您如何看待銷售策略的變化？

Sure. Thanks, Eric. As far as visibility is concerned, I feel extremely confident for two primary reasons. One is that visibility here at Amwell really consists of two components. That which is contractual, that's all of our subscription revenue, which will likely exceed $150 million of the total 200 -- let's call it, midrange $255 million guide.

當然。謝謝，埃里克。就可見度而言，我非常有信心，主要有兩個原因。一是 Amwell 的知名度實際上由兩個部分組成。合約規定的收入是我們所有的訂閱收入，可能會超過總額 2 億美元的 1.5 億美元——我們稱之為中間範圍的 2.55 億美元指南。

So that comes up right around 60%. And the remainder, the vast remainder is our transactional visit volume. And we've got years of expertise in delivering that. We've got a tremendous amount of data and analytics around determining exactly how we should fall within the range. And as Ido noted, we took a very conservative range in order for us to really have achievable and conservative baseline numbers this year.

所以這個數字剛好是 60% 左右。剩下的大部分是我們的交易訪問量。我們在實現這一目標方面擁有多年的專業經驗。我們擁有大量數據和分析數據，可以準確地確定我們應該如何處於該範圍內。正如伊多所指出的，我們採取了一個非常保守的範圍，以便我們今年可以真正獲得可實現的、保守的基線數字。

So that -- those two components give us in excess of 90% visibility into this 2025 guide. And that's something we're extremely comfortable with because the go-get and the history of what we know that's in process off of the pipeline leads us to be, again, very comfortable with that and something that we have a good history of determining quarter over quarter.

所以 —— 這兩個部分使我們對 2025 年指南的了解程度超過 90%。我們對此感到非常滿意，因為我們知道，我們的努力和歷史使我們對此感到非常滿意，而且我們在逐季確定目標方面有著良好的記錄。

The other thing I'd add is just that we will be reporting quarterly now with guidance. So you'll have a very good idea as to how this trajectory is building up and how successful we are in our return to growth this year. On the expanded role on the COO and sales side, I've had now just a little over six weeks in this role, but also I remain very optimistic and energized by the complement of professionals that I work with.

我要補充的另一件事是，我們現在將按季度發布報告並提供指導。因此，您將非常清楚這一軌跡是如何形成的，以及我們今年恢復成長的成功程度。在擔任營運長和銷售方面的擴展角色方面，我擔任這一職務才六個多星期，但我仍然對與我共事的專業人士感到非常樂觀和充滿活力。

We've spent a lot of time now in building out the pipeline and understanding the depth of the opportunities, both inside the government line of business as well as, of course, on the payer and provider side. I think the changes that you'll see throughout the year is that we're extremely focused this year.

我們花了大量時間來建立管道並了解機會的深度，包括政府業務線內部以及付款人和提供者方面。我認為您將在全年看到的變化是，我們今年極其專注。

We are not looking at exceptional work to be performed for innovators, those that we have defined in the past requiring a different flavor of the technology that we've created. We're going to continue to sell what we have today, what we can implement today and what we could activate today. On the government side, we're aware of at least six very material opportunities that we will be pursuing throughout the year.

我們並不期待創新者能夠完成出色的工作，我們過去定義的創新者需要我們所創造的不同風格的技術。我們將繼續銷售我們今天擁有的產品、我們今天可以實現的產品以及我們今天可以啟動的產品。在政府方面，我們知道全年我們將尋求至少六個非常重要的機會。

Obviously, some of these may impact our ability to launch in 2026. But the activity in the pipeline, both in the payer side, on the provider side and then, of course, our new pipeline on the government side leaves us with an opportunity set that's multiples of the size that we had at this time in any prior year.

顯然，其中一些可能會影響我們在 2026 年發射的能力。但是，無論是在付款方、提供者方，或是在政府方，通路中的活動都為我們帶來機會，這一機會的規模是前幾年同期的數倍。

And sorry, you're saying that the success there could impact the ability to launch in '26 launch net new business or launch any of what you have planned for the year?

抱歉，您是說那裡的成功可能會影響 26 年推出新業務的能力，或者影響您今年計劃推出的任何業務的能力？

Oh no, net new business. These are opportunities that we believe will materialize for impact in 2026.

喔不，淨新業務。我們相信這些機會將會在 2026 年實現並產生影響。

Makes sense. Thanks for the detail.

有道理。謝謝你的詳細說明。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Charles Rhyee, TD Cowen.

查爾斯·瑞（Charles Rhyee），TD Cowen。

Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for taking the questions. Just wanted to follow up a little bit on DHA because it seems like if we look at the revenue guide and back out APC $25 million from last year. And then obviously, we look at the step-up in 4Q subscription revenue and looking at your guide for 60% subscription revenues in '25, it seems to imply around $40 million contribution from DHA this year.

是的。謝謝。感謝您回答這些問題。只是想跟進 DHA，因為如果我們看一下收入指南，似乎去年的 APC 收入為 2500 萬美元。然後顯然，我們看一下第四季度訂閱收入的成長，並查看您對 25 年 60% 訂閱收入的指導，這似乎意味著今年 DHA 的貢獻約為 4000 萬美元。

And I guess I'm just trying to understand a little bit because my understanding last year, when you guys were talking about the deployment of this enterprise-wide deployment by the end of the year, I was under an assumption that was like 100% of DHA, but it does sound like now you're saying it's not going to be fully deployed until later as we get into 3Q of this year.

我想我只是想稍微了解一下，因為據我了解，去年，當你們談論到年底這項企業範圍的部署時，我假設 DHA 已經完成 100%，但現在聽起來你是說它要到今年第三季度才會完全部署。

Just trying to understand, first, the difference what is left to get rolled out? Second is our -- is that $40 million correct? Because if then you back into the '25 guide, it seems like $15 million roughly less of revenues elsewhere. Just wondering if that -- should we assume lower care points and/or visit revenues this year? Thanks.

只是想了解，首先，還剩下什麼需要推出？第二是我們的——4000 萬美元正確嗎？因為如果您回到 25 年指南，似乎其他地方的收入減少了約 1500 萬美元。只是想知道，我們是否應該假設今年的護理點和/或訪問收入會降低？謝謝。

Charles, before Mark gives you more detail on the revenue recognition related to your question, I want to point out that the DHA deployment is going as expected, it's actually better than expected, a full throttle ahead. We're talking about an enterprise deployment.

查爾斯，在馬克向您提供有關您的問題的收入確認的更多細節之前，我想指出的是，DHA 的部署正在按預期進行，實際上比預期的要好，全速前進。我們正在討論企業部署。

You should not confuse our part of getting ready to enterprise -- and once the product and the different components are ready, the stage deployment around the world that is done by our partner and our customer. The payment does not mirror every place that is deployed, the payment mirrors more the readiness of the component to go enterprise-wide. And there are other details that Mark may go into.

您不應該混淆我們為企業所做的準備部分——以及產品和不同組件準備就緒後，由我們的合作夥伴和客戶在世界各地進行的階段性部署。付款並不反映部署的每個地方，付款更反映組件在整個企業範圍內部署的準備情況。馬克可能還會談到其他細節。

So overall, everything we expected the DHA to contribute is going to happen from where we sit this year without any type of delay.

因此總體而言，我們期望 DHA 做出的所有貢獻都將在今年實現，不會有任何延遲。

Charles, let me just jump in. I think your initial assumptions are off a little bit, perhaps because of the suggestion that we have not fully implemented. But when we talk about fully implemented, we're going towards achieving 100%, but your estimate of that $40 million is likely close to half of what we'll see in 2025.

查爾斯，讓我插嘴一下。我覺得你最初的假設有點偏差，也許是因為我們還沒有完全實施這個建議。但當我們談到全面實施時，我們將朝著實現 100% 的目標邁進，但您估計的 4000 萬美元可能接近 2025 年預期金額的一半。

So you should feel very confident that the vast majority of that potential through that one particular contract is going to be realized in 2025. And of course, within the next probably 60 to 90 days, we'll know -- we'll have certainty as to the likelihood of that being renewed for the next 3.5 years.

因此，你應該非常有信心，透過該特定合同，絕大部分潛力將在 2025 年實現。當然，大概在接下來的 60 到 90 天內，我們就會知道——我們將確定在未來 3.5 年內續約的可能性。

When you compare 2025 to 2024, you see an absolute increase in about 10% to revenue, again, reflecting the first time in several years that this company has returned to growth.

如果將 2025 年與 2024 年進行比較，您會發現收入絕對增長了約 10%，這再次反映了該公司幾年來首次恢復成長。

And then, if the rest is then coming from DHA, if that's half the value that you're expecting, so let's say, it's $80 million, but then we net it against what you already recognized, let's say, at the end of last year, one quarter's worth, there seems to be a delta then even if we back out APC.

然後，如果其餘部分來自 DHA，如果這是您預期價值的一半，假設它是 8000 萬美元，但然後我們將其與您已經確認的金額（假設為去年年底一個季度的價值）進行淨額計算，即使我們退出 APC，似乎也會有一個差異。

Just trying to understand where some of the other revenue is declining then from? And is that like key points are, obviously, there's a less focus on it. Just trying to understand where the offsets are to get to the guide.

只是想了解其他收入從何而來？而這就像關鍵點一樣，顯然人們對此的關注較少。只是想了解偏移量在哪裡才能到達指南。

Yeah. Certainly, there was a significant miss on the visit volume, which was consistent throughout the year. That's something that occurred as a result of two or three of our major clients who changed direction. I think we messaged that principally in Q3. But obviously, we reiterated that in Q4.

是的。當然，訪問量存在很大的差距，這一情況與全年的情況一致。這是因為我們的兩三個主要客戶改變了方向。我認為我們主要在第三季傳達了這一訊息。但顯然，我們在第四季重申了這一點。

And net of any other churn that took place throughout the year, we have now come into this year, again with very, very strong visibility and knowing that the likelihood of churn as a result of either the transition away from the old platform to the existing platform as well as any other net losses as a result of other normal and recurring churn has already been processed.

除去全年發生的任何其他客戶流失，我們現在進入今年，再次具有非常非常強的可預見性，並且知道由於從舊平台過渡到現有平台而導致的客戶流失的可能性，以及由於其他正常和經常性客戶流失造成的任何其他淨損失都已經得到處理。

Got it. That's really helpful. So is it fair to say, you're saying that going forward, you expect less churn that we've seen in the last couple of years?

知道了。這真的很有幫助。那麼，您是否是說，展望未來，您預期客戶流失率會比過去幾年降低？

Absolutely.

絕對地。

Got it. Okay. Appreciate it. Thank you.

知道了。好的。非常感謝。謝謝。

Ryan MacDonald, Needham.

瑞安麥克唐納，尼德姆。

Hey. Thank you. This is Matt Shea on for Ryan. Thanks for taking the question. I wanted to pressure test the 2026 free cash flow reiteration again. You guys commented in the past about needing somewhere like double-digit growth in 2025 and 2026 to reach those goals.

嘿。謝謝。這是 Matt Shea 代替 Ryan 上場。感謝您回答這個問題。我想再次對 2026 年自由現金流重申進行壓力測試。你們過去曾評論說，需要 2025 年和 2026 年實現兩位數的成長才能實現這些目標。

So curious with that reiterated goal, are you pushing on cost savings harder than previously expected or expecting more growth in 2026 to make up for 2025? Ultimately, just trying to understand any changes to the calculus to get you to that 2026 cash flow profitability.

所以很好奇，對於重申的目標，您是否會比之前預期的更加努力地節約成本，或者預計 2026 年會有更多的增長來彌補 2025 年的增長？最終，只是試圖了解微積分的任何變化，以讓您實現 2026 年的現金流獲利能力。

Sure, Matt. The two components, of course, stay constant. We've got an expectation that double-digit growth, which should sit between 11% and 20% can materialize for the 2026 year. Clearly, if that level of growth doesn't come to fruition and benefit us in line with a margin profile that we believe we'll be exiting the 2025 year with, then cost containment strategies will have to once again be accelerated in order for us to achieve that cash flow breakeven from operations.

當然，馬特。當然，這兩個組成部分保持不變。我們預計 2026 年將實現兩位數的成長率，即 11% 至 20% 之間。顯然，如果這種成長水準沒有實現，並且沒有按照我們認為在 2025 年結束時的利潤率狀況為我們帶來利益，那麼就必須再次加快成本控制策略，以便我們實現營運現金流收支平衡。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

(Operator Instructions) Kevin Caliendo, UBS.

(操作員指示) Kevin Caliendo，瑞銀。

Thank you. Thanks for taking my question. I guess, just one thing quickly with all the headlines around what's going on in the administration with DOGE and everything else. I just want to understand and how to think about this, because we've gotten some questions around the funding vehicle for digital first has to be approved again at some point during the calendar year.

謝謝。感謝您回答我的問題。我想，關於 DOGE 政府和其他方面發生的事情，所有頭條新聞都很快就會出現，有一件事要說。我只是想了解並思考這個問題，因為我們收到了一些疑問，關於數位優先的融資工具是否必須在日曆年的某個時間點再次獲得批准。

Can you take us through the process there? How it works? What the timing of that would be, first? And then I'll ask a follow-up.

能向我們介紹一下那裡的流程嗎？它是如何運作的？首先，那個時間是什麼時候？然後我會問後續問題。

So as you know -- Kevin, as you know, the DHA already shared their intent to offer a sole source to Leidos already in Q4 and contract discussions are taking place as we speak since the renewal time this summer. We are talking about a vehicle that finances very basic fundamental things for the Military Health System, including the Oracle EHR.

正如你所知 - 凱文，正如你所知，DHA 已經在第四季度表達了他們向 Leidos 提供獨家來源的意圖，並且自今年夏天續約以來，合約談判就在進行中。我們正在討論一種為軍事衛生系統最基本的東西提供資金的工具，包括 Oracle EHR。

We didn't hear any -- we have no reason to believe that, that funding will be missing. The current administration is a big supporter of our military, and what we do is proven to increase efficiency in a very significant way to make care much more accessible, much more affordable and efficient for those very important participants.

我們沒有聽到任何消息——我們沒有理由相信會出現資金缺失的情況。現任政府是我們軍隊的大力支持者，事實證明，我們的工作大大提高了效率，使那些非常重要的參與者能夠更加方便地獲得醫療服務，負擔得起，而且效率更高。

So overall, the likelihood of the military, not finance, this basic infrastructure or the DHA not to finance this, in our opinion, is very, very low from where we sit.

因此，總體而言，我們認為，軍方（而不是財政部門）或 DHA 不為此提供資金的可能性非常非常低。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful and good to know. And maybe outside of AMHS deployment, can you maybe share with us or talk broadly about what specific government RFPs are out there that you might be targeting? Like how should we think about these opportunities and any timing around them?

知道了。好的。這很有幫助並且值得了解。也許除了 AMHS 部署之外，您能否與我們分享或廣泛談談您可能針對的特定政府 RFP 是什麼？例如，我們應該如何看待這些機會以及圍繞它們的任何時機？

So of course, I'm unable to share specific names and processes. They are always under NDA and confidential. The sales cycle in the government is long. However, our relationship with a major supplier of the US government, namely Leidos, which is terrific, is extremely helpful.

因此我當然無法分享具體的姓名和流程。它們始終遵守保密協議並且保密。政府的銷售週期很長。然而，我們與美國政府的主要供應商Leidos的關係非常好，這對我們非常有幫助。

Our track record and the long list of compliance items that we checked by implementing what we had is really hard to replace. So we believe that we are proven, we are compliant, and we are very well positioned to modernize systems that are very similar across the government sector to the one that we just successfully implemented; and also, we have a good distribution channel.

我們的業績記錄和透過執行現有措施檢查的長長的合規項目清單確實很難被取代。因此，我們相信，我們已經證明自己，我們是合規的，我們完全有能力對整個政府部門的系統進行現代化改造，這些系統與我們剛剛成功實施的系統非常相似；而且我們擁有良好的分銷管道。

What we do is saving money and democratizing health care and improving access to people. There are many similar organizations that could easily benefit through it. I'm hard-pressed to try to pinpoint the timeline for these things.

我們所做的是節省資金、使醫療保健民主化並改善人們獲得醫療保健的機會。許多類似的組織都可以輕鬆地從中受益。我很難確定這些事情的時間表。

They usually take time. And that's reflected in our very conservative guidance for the year that does not include any positive surprise in this area despite the fact that we are very bullish about our multiyear expansion there.

它們通常需要時間。這反映在我們對今年非常保守的預期中，儘管我們對該領域的多年擴張非常樂觀，但預期中並沒有出現任何積極的驚喜。

Fantastic. Thank you so much.

極好的。太感謝了。

David Larsen, BTIG.

大衛·拉森（David Larsen），BTIG。

Hi. I joined the call a little bit late, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but it was my understanding that Converge was going to be deployed system-wide and that would lead to a large increase in revenue just -- as well as EBITDA margin. Is that happening? And is the Converge revenue for the government systems in line with expectations? Thank you.

你好。我加入電話會議有點晚了，所以如果這個問題已經討論過了，我很抱歉，但據我了解，Converge 將在整個系統範圍內部署，這將導致收入以及 EBITDA 利潤率大幅增加。真的發生了嗎？Converge為政府體系帶來的收入是否符合預期？謝謝。

David, short answer, yes. Everything you said is true.

大衛，簡短的回答是，是的。你說的一切都是真的。

Okay. Is there an incremental lift in the Converge revenue from 4Q of '24 to like 1Q of '25 or not? Is it full platform 71? So I guess you went up $10 million sequentially. So it's another -- I mean, that's the Converge deployment system-wide, the $10 million. So I mean, should we be -- so we'll see that incremental $10 million per quarter through '25?

好的。從 24 年第四季到 25 年第一季度，Converge 的營收是否有提升？是全平台71嗎？所以我猜你的收入連續增加了 1000 萬美元。所以這是另一個——我的意思是，這是全系統的 Converge 部署，耗資 1000 萬美元。所以我的意思是，我們應該——所以我們會看到到25年每季的增量為1000萬美元嗎？

No, you shouldn't think of that full incremental revenue from that quarter solely as a recurring number. I had suggested to Charles earlier in the call that there's a number he had provided an estimate of what he thought was $40 million to be realized in 2025.

不，您不應該將該季度的全部增量收入僅視為一個經常性數字。我在早些時候的通話中向查爾斯提出，他提供了一個估計數字，認為到 2025 年可以實現 4,000 萬美元。

And I had suggested that, that amount is likely half of -- or close to half of what we'll be seeing in 2025 from that contract. We don't particularly identify exact -- the contributing factors to the subscription revenue. But there are some one-time implementation fees that we recognize, but the vast majority of the DHA revenue is recurring.

我曾指出，該金額可能僅為該合約 2025 年金額的一半，或接近一半。我們並沒有特別指出影響訂閱收入的具體因素。但是，我們承認有一些一次性實施費用，但絕大多數 DHA 收入是經常性的。

And then how much of the improvement in EBITDA is from cost reduction efforts?

那麼 EBITDA 的提高有多少是來自於成本削減的努力呢？

I'm going to suggest that the vast majority of the increase in that EBITDA is coming from the shift from transactional visit revenue to subscription revenue. And then, of course, it's probably a one-third, two-thirds relationship with one-third of that savings coming from cost reductions.

我認為 EBITDA 的絕大部分成長來自於從交易訪問收入到訂閱收入的轉變。當然，這可能是三分之一、三分之二的關係，其中三分之一的節省來自成本降低。

Okay. Great. Thanks very much.

好的。偉大的。非常感謝。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Jessica Tassan, Piper Sandler.

傑西卡·塔桑，派珀·桑德勒。

Thanks so much for taking the question. So I was just hoping to come back to the bridge between '24 reported revenue and the '25 guide. I guess based on the comments or framework you all have given us around the DHA rollout or the incremental contribution in '25, and then the APC headwind.

非常感謝您回答這個問題。所以我只是希望回到 24 年報告收入和 25 年指南之間的橋樑。我想，根據大家就 DHA 推出或 25 年的增量貢獻以及 APC 逆風向我們提供的評論或框架。

I guess, like we're coming up with something like at least $35 million of year-over-year dollar growth irrespective of the visit issues in 2024. And so I guess should we be thinking about that $35 million as being the attrition in the core in 2024? And would you expect a similar level of core attrition in '25 that could then underline '26 growth despite the strong pipeline? Thanks.

我想，無論 2024 年的訪問問題如何，我們都會實現至少 3500 萬美元的同比增長。所以我想我們是否應該將這 3500 萬美元視為 2024 年核心的損失？您是否預計，25 年核心員工流動率會出現類似水平，這可能會影響 26 年的成長，儘管產品線很強大？謝謝。

Hi, Jessica. That attrition in 2024 was significant. It was material, and it was something the company had not previously experienced. But it was also -- some of that was managed attrition as well for clients that, quite frankly, weren't appropriate for the strategy going forward.

你好，潔西卡。2024 年的人員減員非常嚴重。這是實質的事情，是該公司以前從未經歷過的。但這也是 — — 對客戶來說，其中一些是可管理的人員流失，坦白說，這並不適合未來的策略。

I had addressed a little bit earlier in the call that I think all of that has been naturally processed through the end of 2024. And as we return to growth in 2025, we'd expect a far less significant impact from churn.

我在早些時候的電話會議上提到過，我認為到 2024 年底，所有這些都將自然處理完畢。隨著我們在 2025 年恢復成長，我們預期客戶流失的影響將大大減少。

So that's why we are extremely confident in those very achievable and conservative revenue -- range of revenue that we provided today.

所以這就是為什麼我們對今天提供的那些非常可實現且保守的收入範圍非常有信心。

Got it. And then just quickly on the APC divestiture. Is that capability, the psych capability noncore to being able to provide behavioral health programs that can be titrated up as patient acuity requires? Or does the Amwell Behavioral Health automated programs still have access to some level of psychiatric care just supported by a third party. Can you just help us understand how you guys are enabling the entire behavioral health care delivery paradigm now that you've divested that asset? Thanks.

知道了。然後簡單介紹一下 APC 的剝離情況。這種能力，即心理能力，是否不是提供可根據患者敏銳度要求進行滴定的行為健康計劃的核心？或者 Amwell Behavioral Health 自動化程序是否仍可獲得僅由第三方支援的某種程度的精神病護理。您能否幫助我們了解，在剝離了該資產之後，您是如何實現整個行為醫療保健服務模式的？謝謝。

Hi, Jess. The answer is that AMG is providing today quite successfully a whole spectrum of behavioral health services that are further amplified by automated programs with our automated program platform and with the legacy SilverCloud platform as well.

你好，傑西。答案是，AMG 如今非常成功地提供了全方位的行為健康服務，這些服務透過我們自動化程式平台和傳統的 SilverCloud 平台的自動化程序得到了進一步擴展。

We actually concluded that the legacy APC business had a very big component of physical staffing of psychiatrists in hospital that had low margin and sometimes even negative margin contribution and was not truly helpful in staffing some of those services online for many of our customers. Therefore, we think behavioral health is enormously important.

我們實際上得出的結論是，傳統的APC業務在醫院精神科醫生的實際人員配備方面佔有很大的比重，其利潤率很低，有時甚至是負利潤貢獻，而且對於為我們的許多客戶提供一些在線服務並沒有真正的幫助。因此，我們認為行為健康非常重要。

We are confident that AMG is able to supply the services required and the programs together with some other partners that we have and continuing to hold APC was really not helpful, not financially, but much more importantly, was not helpful strategically to provide technology-enabled care as it specifically relates to psychiatric care going forward.

我們相信，AMG 能夠連同我們已有的其他一些合作夥伴提供所需的服務和項目，而繼續持有 APC 確實沒有幫助，不僅在財務上，而且更重要的是，在戰略上無助於提供技術支持的護理，因為它與未來的精神病護理具體相關。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference back to Ido for closing remarks. Sir?

謝謝。現在我想請伊多致閉幕詞。先生？

Thank you, everyone. We really appreciate you joining, and we look forward to talking with you soon. Take care and have a great evening.

謝謝大家。我們非常感謝您的加入，並期待很快與您交談。請多保重並祝您度過愉快的夜晚。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。