艾克爾 (AMKR) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Amkor Technology fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings conference call. My name is Diego, and I will be your conference facilitator today. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

女士、先生們，大家好，歡迎參加 Amkor Technology 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。我叫迭戈，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Jennifer Jue, Head of Investor Relations. Ms. Jue, please go ahead.

現在，我想將電話轉給投資者關係主管 Jennifer Jue。請珏小姐說。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for Amkor's fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Joining me today are Giel Rutten, our Chief Executive Officer; and Megan Faust, our Chief Financial Officer. Our earnings press release was filed with the SEC this afternoon and is available on the Investor Relations page of our website, along with the presentation slides that accompany today's call.

謝謝您，接線生。大家下午好，感謝您參加 Amkor 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天與我一起的還有我們的執行長 Giel Rutten；以及我們的財務長梅根·福斯特（Megan Faust）。我們的收益新聞稿已於今天下午提交給美國證券交易委員會 (SEC)，並可在我們網站的「投資者關係」頁面上查閱，同時還可查看今天電話會議的簡報幻燈片。

During this presentation, we will use non-GAAP financial measures, and you can find the reconciliation to the US GAAP equivalent on our website. We will make forward-looking statements about our expectations for Amkor's future performance based on the environment as we currently see it. Of course, actual results could differ.

在本次示範中，我們將使用非 GAAP 財務指標，您可以在我們的網站上找到與美國 GAAP 等效指標的對帳表。我們將根據目前所見的環境，對 Amkor 未來業績的預期做出前瞻性陳述。當然，實際結果可能會有所不同。

Please refer to our press release and SEC filings for information on risk factors, uncertainties and exceptions that could cause actual results to differ materially from these expectations. Please note that the financial results discussed today are preliminary, and final data will be included in our Form 10-K.

有關可能導致實際結果與這些預期存在重大差異的風險因素、不確定性和例外情況的信息，請參閱我們的新聞稿和美國證券交易委員會文件。請注意，今天討論的財務結果是初步的，最終數據將包含在我們的 10-K 表中。

And now I'll turn the call over to Giel.

現在我將電話轉給吉爾。

Thank you, Jennifer. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining the call today. Amkor delivered fourth quarter results in line with guidance with revenue of $1.63 billion and EPS of $0.43. For the full year 2024, revenue was $6.3 billion, a 3% decline from the previous year. The year met our expectations except for the weakness in the automotive and industrial end markets where we had expected improvement in the second half.

謝謝你，詹妮弗。大家下午好，感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。Amkor 公佈的第四季業績符合預期，營收為 16.3 億美元，每股收益為 0.43 美元。 2024 年全年營收為 63 億美元，較前一年下降 3%。除了汽車和工業終端市場疲軟外，今年全年業績均符合我們的預期，我們原本預計下半年這兩個市場將會有所改善。

During the year, we achieved several significant milestones. Advanced packaging revenue increased 3% year-over-year and Advanced SiP reached a record of $3.1 billion. The computing end market reached a record of $1.2 billion driven by growth in ARM-based PCs and 2.5D technology for AI GPUs.

在這一年中，我們實現了幾個重要的里程碑。先進封裝收入年增3%，先進SiP達到創紀錄的31億美元。在基於 ARM 的個人電腦和 AI GPU 的 2.5D 技術成長的推動下，運算終端市場達到了創紀錄的 12 億美元。

We qualified our new Vietnam facility and ramped production for system and package and memory devices. We solidified our US manufacturing strategy and secured $407 million in CHIPS funding to support our planned Arizona facility, and we expanded our partnership with TSMC to support advanced packaging in the US and with Infineon to support power modules in Europe.

我們對越南的新工廠進行了認證，並提高了系統、封裝和儲存設備的產量。我們鞏固了我們的美國製造策略，並獲得了 4.07 億美元的 CHIPS 資金來支持我們計劃中的亞利桑那州工廠，並且我們擴大了與台積電的合作夥伴關係以支持美國的先進封裝，以及與英飛凌的合作夥伴關係以支持歐洲的電源模組。

Despite the dynamic macro environment and short-term challenges, we remain focused on strengthening our technology leadership in advanced packaging, expanding our global footprint and partnering with lead customers in growth markets.

儘管宏觀環境動態變化且面臨短期挑戰，我們仍然專注於加強我們在先進封裝領域的技術領導地位，擴大我們的全球影響力並與成長市場的主要客戶合作。

Now let me discuss each of our end markets. In the fourth quarter, revenue in our communications end market declined 25% sequentially due to a change in build pattern for new iOS phones and temporarily lower content in the latest iOS phone due to a SiP socket that we are not participating in. This socket gap drove the 7% decline in our total communication revenue for the full year 2024. The iOS revenue decline was slightly offset by Android growth of 9% for the full year.

現在讓我討論一下我們的每個終端市場。第四季度，由於新款 iOS 手機的製造模式發生變化，以及我們沒有參與 SiP 插槽導致最新 iOS 手機的內容暫時減少，我們的通訊終端市場收入環比下降 25%。這個插座缺口導致我們 2024 年全年總通訊收入下降了 7%。iOS 營收的下滑被 Android 全年 9% 的成長稍微抵銷了。

For 2025, we expect our communications business to be muted in the first half, followed by above-seasonal growth in the second half. We're closely collaborating with our strategic customer and are confident in recovering the SiP socket in the next-generation iOS phones. We expect continued improvement in Android revenue and are projecting total communication revenue to be flat year-on-year.

展望 2025 年，我們預計我們的通訊業務在上半年將表現平淡，下半年將高於季節性的成長。我們正在與我們的策略客戶密切合作，並有信心在下一代iOS手機中恢復SiP插槽。我們預計 Android 收入將繼續改善，並預計總通訊收入將與去年同期持平。

Revenue in our computing end market increased 13% sequentially and 16% for the full year to record levels. Strong demand for AI GPUs and ramping programs supporting ARM-based PCs led the growth, while weakness in traditional servers and networking dampened upside.

我們的計算終端市場營收季增 13%，全年成長 16%，達到創紀錄的水平。對 AI GPU 的強勁需求和支援基於 ARM 的 PC 的計劃不斷增加推動了成長，而傳統伺服器和網路的疲軟抑制了上行潛力。

Within the past few weeks, dynamics within the AI data center supply chain have impacted our 2.5D growth expectations for the year. We accelerated transition to a new AI GPU product family, together with new trade restrictions have resulted in an adjusted near-term outlook. We expect to continue running volume for 2.5D AI GPUs but at a lower level than previously anticipated.

在過去的幾週內，AI資料中心供應鏈內的動態影響了我們對今年 2.5D 的成長預期。我們加速向新的 AI GPU 產品系列的過渡，加上新的貿易限制導致近期前景得到調整。我們預計 2.5D AI GPU 的運行量將持續，但水準將低於先前的預期。

As we navigate these dynamics, we remain confident in our project pipeline, including our new 2.5D customer that continues to ramp volume and our first programs on the next-generation RDL interposer technology, which started low-volume production. The uncertainty of political environments limit visibility for the full year. However, we expect our computing end market to show mild growth for the full year.

在我們應對這些動態的同時，我們對我們的專案流程仍然充滿信心，包括我們新的 2.5D 客戶（該客戶繼續增加產量）和我們關於下一代 RDL 中介層技術的首個專案（該技術已開始小批量生產）。政治環境的不確定性限制了全年的可見度。不過，我們預期我們的計算終端市場將全年呈現溫和成長。

In the fourth quarter, revenue in our automotive and industrial end market declined 8% sequentially, missing our flat to mild growth expectations. Customer forecasts deteriorated throughout the quarter due to macro weakness and tight inventory control.

第四季度，我們的汽車和工業終端市場營收季減 8%，未達到我們持平至溫和成長的預期。由於宏觀經濟疲軟和庫存控制嚴格，整個季度客戶預測均惡化。

For the full year, the automotive and industrial end market declined 16% compared to ['23], and we have experienced seven quarters in a row of year-on-year declines. From our peak in 2022, revenue has declined nearly $300 million, primarily due to declines in mainstream products. For 2025, we expect advanced packaging programs in automotive to grow in the mid-teens percent and remain optimistic about the recovery in our mainstream portfolio, although the timing is uncertain. Overall, we anticipate softness in the first part of the year and mild full year growth.

全年汽車與工業終端市場較去年同期[’23]下滑16%，已連續7季出現年減。與 2022 年的高峰相比，收入下降了近 3 億美元，主要是由於主流產品的下滑。到 2025 年，我們預計汽車領域的先進封裝項目將以百分之十幾的速度增長，並且我們仍然對我們主流產品組合的復甦持樂觀態度，儘管具體時間尚不確定。整體而言，我們預計今年上半年經濟將表現疲軟，全年經濟將溫和成長。

Revenue in our consumer end market increased 10% for full year 2024 driven by the ramp of a new wearable program utilizing advanced SiP technology. This program helped to offset headwinds in other traditional consumer applications. Our revenue in the fourth quarter remained relatively steady after a steep ramp in the third quarter. For 2025, we expect mild growth driven by a full year of production for the wearable program and modest improvements in traditional consumer programs.

由於採用先進 SiP 技術的新型穿戴裝置專案的推廣，我們消費終端市場的收入在 2024 年全年增長了 10%。該計劃有助於抵消其他傳統消費應用方面的阻力。我們的收入在第三季大幅上升之後，第四季保持相對穩定。對於 2025 年，我們預計穿戴式裝置專案全年生產和傳統消費性產品專案適度改善將推動其溫和成長。

Now I will turn to our first quarter outlook. For Q1, we expect revenue of $1.275 billion, reflecting a year-on-year decline of 7%, primarily due to the temporary socket gap in the current iOS phones. For full year 2025, we foresee a muted first half followed by a strong second half, driven by the content recovery in the next generation of iOS phones. With each of the end markets expected to be flat to slightly up, we expect total company revenue to be flat to low single-digit growth for the year.

現在我將談談我們第一季的展望。對於第一季度，我們預計營收為 12.75 億美元，年減 7%，主要原因是目前 iOS 手機存在暫時性的插槽缺口。對於 2025 年全年而言，我們預計上半年市場表現平淡，下半年將表現強勁，這主要得益於下一代 iOS 手機內容恢復的推動。由於預計各終端市​​場將持平或略有上漲，我們預計今年公司總收入將持平或維持低個位數成長。

With that, I will now turn the call over to Megan to provide more detailed financial information.

說完這些，我現在將電話轉給梅根，以提供更詳細的財務資訊。

Thank you, Giel, and good afternoon, everyone. Fourth quarter financial performance met expectations with all financial metrics within our guidance range. Revenue of $1.63 billion declined more than seasonal sequentially, primarily due to our communications end markets as well as prolonged weakness in the automotive and industrial end markets.

謝謝你，吉爾，大家下午好。第四季的財務表現符合預期，所有財務指標均在我們的指導範圍內。16.3 億美元的營收比季節性環比下降幅度更大，這主要是由於我們的通訊終端市場以及汽車和工業終端市場的長期疲軟。

Fourth quarter gross profit was $247 million, and gross margin was 15.1%. Gross margin increased 50 basis points from Q3 primarily due to a change in product mix with a lower proportion of advanced SiP. Our gross margin is also being impacted by the ramp of our new Vietnam facility. In Q4, this had approximately 80 basis points of burden.

第四季毛利為2.47億美元，毛利率為15.1%。毛利率較第三季增加了 50 個基點，主要由於產品結構變化，先進 SiP 比例降低。我們的毛利率也受到了越南新廠產能擴張的影響。在第四季度，這一負擔約為 80 個基點。

Operating expenses for the quarter came in lower than expected at $112 million, partially due to lower incentive compensation. Operating income was $134 million, and operating income margin was 8.3%. Favorable foreign currency partially offset higher-than-expected taxes, resulting in net income for the fourth quarter of $106 million or EPS of $0.43. Fourth quarter EBITDA was $302 million, and EBITDA margin was 18.5%.

本季營運費用低於預期，為 1.12 億美元，部分原因是激勵薪資較低。營業收入為1.34億美元，營業收入利潤率為8.3%。有利的外幣部分抵消了高於預期的稅收，導致第四季度淨收入為 1.06 億美元，即每股收益 0.43 美元。第四季 EBITDA 為 3.02 億美元，EBITDA 利潤率為 18.5%。

Now let's turn to our full year 2024 performance. Revenue of $6.3 billion was down 3% year-on-year. Due to the prolonged cycle and low utilization, the manufacturing teams strictly adhered to cost containment measures to maintain profitability. Gross profit for the year was $933 million, and gross margin was 14.8%.

現在讓我們來看看我們 2024 年全年的業績。營收63億美元，年減3%。由於週期延長、利用率低，製造團隊嚴格遵守成本控制措施以保持獲利能力。全年毛利為9.33億美元，毛利率為14.8%。

Operating income was $438 million, and operating margin was 6.9%. Our full year effective tax rate was 17.5%. Net income for the year was $354 million, resulting in EPS of $1.43. EBITDA was $1.1 billion, and EBITDA margin was 17.3%.

營業收入為4.38億美元，營業利益率為6.9%。我們的全年有效稅率為17.5%。全年淨收入為 3.54 億美元，每股收益為 1.43 美元。 EBITDA 為 11 億美元，EBITDA 利潤率為 17.3%。

Amkor has exhibited strict financial discipline. CapEx For 2024 was $744 million, an 11.8% capital intensity. We focused our investments on expanding capacity for 2.5D in Korea and for advanced SiP in both Korea and Vietnam. Free cash flow for the full year was $359 million, demonstrating efficient working capital management and operational performance.

Amkor 一直有著嚴格的財務紀律。2024 年的資本支出為 7.44 億美元，資本密集度為 11.8%。我們的投資重​​點是擴大韓國的 2.5D 產能以及韓國和越南的先進 SiP 產能。全年自由現金流為3.59億美元，體現了高效率的營運資本管理與營運績效。

We ended the year with $1.6 billion of cash and short-term investments and total liquidity of $2.3 billion. Our total debt as of the end of the quarter is $1.2 billion, and our debt-to-EBITDA ratio is 1.1 times.

截至年底，我們的現金和短期投資為 16 億美元，總流動資金為 23 億美元。截至本季末，我們的總負債為 12 億美元，負債與 EBITDA 比率為 1.1 倍。

Moving on to our first quarter outlook. We anticipate revenue of approximately $1.275 billion, representing a year-on-year decline of 7%. With the underutilization expected across our factories and the burden associated with our new Vietnam facility as it ramps scale, profitability will be constrained. We expect gross margin to be between 10% and 13%.

接下來是我們對第一季的展望。我們預計營收約 12.75 億美元，年減 7%。由於我們工廠的預期利用率不足，以及我們越南新工廠在擴大規模時產生的負擔，獲利能力將受到限制。我們預計毛利率在 10% 至 13% 之間。

We expect Q1 operating expenses of around $120 million. We expect our full year effective tax rate to increase to around 20% due to new global tax regulations. First quarter net income is expected to be $23 million at the midpoint of guidance, resulting in EPS of $0.09. Our CapEx forecast for 2025 is $850 million, of which 5% to 10% is estimated for our new advanced packaging facility in Arizona.

我們預計第一季的營運費用約為 1.2 億美元。由於新的全球稅收法規，我們預計全年有效稅率將增至 20% 左右。預計第一季淨收入為指導中位數 2,300 萬美元，每股收益為 0.09 美元。我們對 2025 年的資本支出預測為 8.5 億美元，其中 5% 至 10% 預計用於我們位於亞利桑那州的新先進封裝工廠。

Amkor has demonstrated resilience in this dynamic environment, and we are proud of the milestones we reached in 2024, strengthened our technology portfolio in advanced packaging for 2.5D and advanced SiP, expanded our broad geographic footprint by successfully beginning production in Vietnam and securing CHIPS funding for our planned US manufacturing location and enhanced partnerships with industry leaders and growth markets.

在這種動態環境中，Amkor 表現出了韌性，我們為 2024 年實現的里程碑感到自豪，增強了我們在 2.5D 和先進 SiP 先進封裝方面的技術組合，通過成功在越南開始生產並為我們計劃中的美國製造地點獲得 CHIPS 資金，擴大了我們廣泛的地理覆蓋範圍，並加強了與行業合作夥伴關係。

With that, we will now open the call up for your questions. Operator?

現在，我們將開始回答大家的提問。操作員？

Thank you. And at this time, we will be conducting the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。此時，我們將進行問答環節。（操作員指令）

Toshiya Hari, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Toshiya Hari。

Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking the question. Maybe one for Giel on the communications business. You talked a little bit about the lower content in sort of the iPhone and the impact it had and then, I guess, your expectation for that to come back in '25. I guess what -- well, first of all, I guess, if you can clarify or confirm how significant the hit was from that in the most recent quarter, that would be really helpful. And then what gives you the confidence that you or your partner can indeed sort of regain that content in the back half of the year? Thanks.

你好。午安.感謝您回答這個問題。也許是吉爾在通訊業務上的一個機會。您談到了 iPhone 內容的減少及其帶來的影響，以及您預計在 25 年內容將會恢復。我想，首先，如果你能澄清或確認最近一個季度的打擊有多大，那將會非常有幫助。那麼，什麼讓您有信心您或您的伴侶確實可以在下半年恢復這些內容呢？謝謝。

Toshiya, yes, let me try to give you a bit background on this SiP socket. First of all, the confidence to get back into this slot in the next generation, we have a long-standing track record with this lead customer of Amkor in bringing new technology and new products to market. We started the development of this new socket for next-generation phone generation in already 2024. We prepare mass production and we have clear line of sight of the ramp that will happen in the third quarter of 2025.

Toshiya，是的，讓我試著向您介紹這個 SiP 插座的背景知識。首先，我們有信心在下一代產品中重返這個位置，我們與 Amkor 的這個主要客戶有著長期的合作，將新技術和新產品推向市場。我們早在 2024 年就開始為下一代手機開發這種新插座。我們正在準備大規模生產，並且對 2025 年第三季的產量提升有著清晰的預期。

It was a strategic decision by the end customer to do it the way that we decided to do it because it was an important, let's say, changeover in their architecture of the phone. So in that sense, we have clear line of sight. It is a significant impact. So let's see -- the Q4 impact would be roughly -- Megan, can you help here?

最終客戶做出的一項策略決策是按照我們決定的方式去做，因為這是一個重要的轉變，可以說是他們手機架構的轉變。因此從這個意義上來說，我們的視線是清晰的。這是一個重大的影響。那麼讓我們看看 - 第四季度的影響大致是 - 梅根，你能幫忙嗎？

Yes. So as far as the Q4 impact, Toshiya, really the build pattern was the bigger piece of the Q4 impact. The socket gap was the lesser of the two. As we look at Q1, I think the way to think about it is with our year-over-year decline of 7% as our guide for Q1, the biggest driver of that is communication. And so that's where the socket gap is notable, is in a year-over-year decline.

是的。因此就第四季的影響而言，Toshiya，實際上建構模式是第四季度影響中更大的一部分。插座間隙是兩者中較小的一個。當我們回顧第一季時，我認為應該以同比下降 7% 作為第一季的指導，其中最大的驅動因素是溝通。這就是插座差距明顯的地方，呈現逐年下降趨勢。

Got it. Thank you so much. And then as my follow-up, maybe one for Megan on the gross margin side of things. So you're guiding to 10% to 13% in Q1. You went through the puts and takes as it pertains to Q1. But how should we think about trajectory into Q2 and the back half? Vietnam, I assume, stays a headwind. But as volumes grow and mix evolves, how should we think about gross margins progressing as you move throughout '25?

知道了。太感謝了。然後作為我的後續問題，也許梅根會就毛利率方面的問題提出一個問題。所以您預計第一季的成長幅度將達到 10% 到 13%。您已經了解了與 Q1 相關的得失。但是我們該如何看待第二季和後半段的軌跡呢？我認為，越南仍將是一道阻力。但隨著產量的成長和產品的演變，我們該如何看待 25 年期間毛利率的上升？

Sure. So yes, for our Q1 guide, that's going to follow a pretty traditional incremental flow-through as far as the math's concerned with our range that we provided for Q1. As we look out towards the remaining part of the year, I would still say our financial model does support, the 30% to 40% incremental flow-through. This has evolved from our previous incremental flow-through of 40% to 50% given the lift in material content that's happened over the past five years.

當然。所以是的，對於我們的 Q1 指南，就我們為 Q1 提供的範圍的數學而言，這將遵循非常傳統的增量流程。展望今年剩餘時間，我仍然會說我們的財務模型確實支援 30% 至 40% 的增量流通。由於過去五年來材料含量的提升，這一數字已從先前的 40% 增加到 50%。

Back in 2019, when we came out with that original model, we were at 40% material content, and today, we're at 55%. So I would say 30% to 40% is now the better financial model given our profile. As we look towards 2025, the way to think about that would be the same incremental flow-through. From a Vietnam perspective, that will have around 100 basis points burden in Q1. So that's incorporated into our guide. That is going to gradually reduce over the course of the year such that as we exit 2025, we will be at breakeven operating income. So that will have less of an impact on the full year.

2019 年，當我們推出原始模型時，材料含量為 40%，而今天已達到 55%。因此，我認為，根據我們的情況，30%到 40% 是更好的財務模型。當我們展望 2025 年時，思考這個問題的方式將是相同的增量流通。從越南的角度來看，這將為第一季帶來約 100 個基點的負擔。所以這已納入我們的指南中。這一數字將會在一年內逐漸減少，到 2025 年末，我們的營業收入將達到收支平衡。因此對全年的影響較小。

Joe Moore, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的喬摩爾。

Great, thank you. I guess you talked about autos eroding over the course of the quarter, but you also talked about your optimism for 2025. Can you just give us a sense for what gives you the confidence in that growth? What are the specific package types that can offset the macro weakness that we're seeing?

太好了，謝謝。我想您談到了汽車行業在本季度的下滑，但您也談到了對 2025 年的樂觀態度。您能否告訴我們是什麼讓您對這種成長充滿信心？哪些特定的一攬子計劃類型可以抵消我們所看到的宏觀疲軟？

Joe, this is Giel. You were referring specifically to one specific market?

喬，這是吉爾。您具體指的是某個特定的市場嗎？

Yes, to automotive.

是的，對於汽車而言。

To automotive. Well, the automotive market in the fourth quarter disappoint us because we share we were expecting a single-digit improvement in the fourth quarter, but it came in significantly lower at the 6% below our previous quarter. So that's disappointing.

對於汽車而言。嗯，第四季的汽車市場令我們失望，因為我們預計第四季將出現個位數成長，但實際成長幅度顯著下降，比上一季低 6%。這很令人失望。

Now going forward, if we take our project pipeline in automotive, we see strength in the advanced packaging for automotive, specifically for ADAS devices, in-car networking and infotainment, where we have strength with the, let's say, newcomers as well as the incumbent player for advanced packaging. So in that sense, we have a strong project pipeline, and that builds confidence that 2025 will be, let's say, a flat year in automotive.

展望未來，如果我們將專案管線拓展到汽車領域，我們會看到汽車先進封裝的優勢，特別是對於 ADAS 設備、車載網路和資訊娛樂，我們在先進封裝領域與後來者和現有參與者都具有實力。因此從這個意義上來說，我們擁有強大的專案儲備，並且我們有信心 2025 年將是汽車行業平穩的一年。

For our mainstream products, now the line of sight is not that clear. It declined significantly over last year, but we believe that we reached the trough. That's at least the feedback that we're getting from our customers, and we expect a gradual improvement for our mainstream portfolio although visibility is still very vague.

對於我們的主流產品來說，現在的視線還不是那麼清晰。與去年相比，這一數字大幅下降，但我們認為已經觸底。這至少是我們從客戶那裡得到的回饋，儘管可見性仍然非常模糊，但我們預計我們的主流產品組合將逐步改善。

Very helpful, thank you.

非常有幫助，謝謝。

Peter Peng, JPMorgan Chase and Company.

摩根大通公司的 Peter Peng。

Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe if you can spend a little bit of time talking about the dynamic at your marquee customer. And then more importantly, as that customer ramps down given their Blackwell rollout, how are you expecting to kind of backfill that with either maybe expanding more customers, et cetera? Maybe if you can just spend some time on that dynamic.

你好。感謝您回答我的問題。也許您可以花一點時間與您的大客戶討論目前的動態。然後更重要的是，隨著 Blackwell 的推出，客戶數量逐漸減少，您打算如何填補這一空缺，可能是擴大更多客戶等等？也許如果你能花一些時間去思考這個動態。

Yeah. Good point, Peter. Let me try to explain you the dynamics here. I mean, in the broader sense in the compute market, we see that as an important market for us with a significant opportunity for growth over the next couple of years. So in the AI market, specifically for AI GPUs, we still see, let's say, the second generation being introduced now.

是的。說得好，彼得。讓我嘗試向您解釋這裡的動態。我的意思是，從更廣泛的計算市場來看，我們認為這對我們來說是一個重要的市場，並且在未來幾年內具有巨大的成長機會。因此在人工智慧市場，特別是人工智慧 GPU，我們仍然看到第二代產品正在推出。

And for a couple of reasons, we see our 2.5D business to be below expectation in the first quarter of 2025, specifically related by the accelerated ramp of the next-generation GPU families. And then the second element there is the -- these China restrictions that came in by the end of 2024, and that had impact on several devices that we were planning to ramp in the first quarter and the second quarter.

由於幾個原因，我們預計 2025 年第一季的 2.5D 業務將低於預期，這與下一代 GPU 系列的加速發展有關。第二個因素是 2024 年底實施的中國限制措施，這對我們計劃在第一季和第二季增加生產的幾款設備產生了影響。

Now next to these, I would call it short-term dynamics. We are confident in our overall project and customer pipeline. We are ramping with our second customer in 2.5D in the first quarter. That's ongoing. We're also expanding our technology portfolio to RDL-based technology. We have two devices ramping up, of which one is already in production in the first quarter. And we have a strong project pipeline going forward in further, let's say, AI-based technology.

接下來我稱之為短期動態。我們對我們的整體專案和客戶管道充滿信心。第一季度，我們將與第二家客戶合作 2.5D 專案。這仍在進行中。我們也將我們的技術組合擴展到基於 RDL 的技術。我們有兩種設備正在加速生產，其中一種已經在第一季投入生產。我們在人工智慧技術領域還有強大的專案儲備。

Now if we look to the next-generation GPU devices that are currently in a bridge-based technology, we consider us, there, a technology follower, not a technology leader. And we work on that technology and R&D, and we have several engagements with more than one customer to bring that into production in 2026.

現在，如果我們展望目前基於橋接技術的下一代 GPU 設備，我們會認為我們是技術追隨者，而不是技術領導者。我們致力於該技術的研發，並與多家客戶達成合作，計劃於 2026 年將其投入生產。

And then maybe if you can just talk about how you're thinking about OpEx spending through the year just given the more muted revenue expectations.

然後，您是否可以談談，在收入預期較為溫和的情況下，您如何考慮全年的營運支出？

Okay, I'll leave that to Megan.

好的，我將這個交給梅根。

Peter, yes, so Q4 OpEx did come in lower than we expected. As we're looking at Q1, we're expecting that to increase mainly for your seasonal reset of incentive comp. From a full year, I would anticipate total OpEx being pretty similar to 2024. We are going to continue to invest in our technology road map as well as other technology surrounding power modules.

彼得，是的，第四季的營運支出確實低於我們的預期。當我們展望第一季時，我們預計這一數字將主要由於激勵補償的季節性重置而增加。從全年來看，我預計總營運支出將與 2024 年非常相似。我們將繼續投資我們的技術路線圖以及圍繞電源模組的其他技術。

So we're anticipating similar. That would also include continued strict head count control, reduction of discretionary and travel spend, and deferral of other projects to maintain a lower level of OpEx similar to what we achieved in 2024.

所以我們期待類似的事情。這也包括繼續嚴格控制員工人數、減少可自由支配的開支和差旅開支以及推遲其他項目，以維持與我們在 2024 年實現的水平類似的較低營運支出水平。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Craig Ellis, B Riley Securities.

克雷格·埃利斯（Craig Ellis），B Riley Securities。

Yeah. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I'll stick within compute to start it off. What I was hoping to understand is if we look at the real strong growth within the segment, in 2024, how much of that came from AI PCs versus GPU-based systems? And as you look at 2025, how would you expect those different opportunities to contribute to the growth that you expect?

是的。非常感謝您回答我的問題。我將堅持使用計算來開始它。我希望了解的是，如果我們看看 2024 年該領域真正的強勁成長，其中有多少來自 AI PC 而不是基於 GPU 的系統？展望 2025 年，您認為這些不同的機會將如何促進您預期的成長？

Thanks, Craig. Let me start with the growth in GPUs for AI data centers. We would consider that the major part of the growth that we have seen in 2024. That was within the 2.5D technology, and there, we ramped that and we were able to quadruple that revenue for 2.5D in 2024 according to plan. So that was the major part of our record year in our compute market.

謝謝，克雷格。我首先要說一下 AI 資料中心 GPU 的成長。我們認為這是我們在 2024 年看到的成長的主要部分。那是在 2.5D 技術範圍內，在那裡，我們對其進行了改進，並能夠按照計劃在 2024 年將 2.5D 的收入翻兩番。這是我們計算市場創紀錄的一年的主要部分。

Now we see the debt market, we still continue as a good potential going forward. We're diversifying our customer base. We're diversifying our technology base, and we have a significant installed base on capacity and capabilities in order to diversify our business beyond the current customer base.

現在我們看到債務市場仍然具有良好的發展潛力。我們正在使我們的客戶群多樣化。我們正在使我們的技術基礎多樣化，並且我們擁有大量的容量和能力安裝基礎，以便使我們的業務多樣化超越現有的客戶群。

If we take the segment of AI-based PCs, then we have a couple of customers that are introducing new products there. Some customers are more successful than others, but I believe that that's still an emerging segment where we are well positioned. We have products in the market currently with two lead customers in that market. There are fabless companies. So in that sense, we see further growth going forward, certainly when AI moves to edge devices like PCs but ultimately also to smartphones.

如果我們以基於人工智慧的個人電腦領域為例，那麼我們有幾個客戶正在該領域推出新產品。有些客戶比其他客戶更成功，但我相信這仍然是一個新興領域，我們處於有利地位。我們的產品目前在市場上有兩家主要客戶。有無晶圓廠公司。因此從這個意義上講，我們看到了未來的進一步成長，當然當人工智慧轉移到個人電腦等邊緣設備時，但最終也會轉移到智慧型手機上。

That's real helpful color, Giel. And the follow-up question is one that's less a modeling question and more a new program question. So in 2024, it was impressive because the company had ARM-based PCs and AI and a very good wearables program, and those benefited multiple segments.

這真是有用的顏色，吉爾。後續問題不太像建模問題，更像是新程式問題。因此在 2024 年，這令人印象深刻，因為該公司擁有基於 ARM 的個人電腦和人工智慧以及非常好的可穿戴設備計劃，這些計劃使多個細分市場受益。

And as you look at 2025, clearly, there's an opportunity to recapture some SiP share, and it seems like there is the foundation for continued growth in AI. But as we look at the company-specific things that will benefit Amkor, how would you set that list? And if you were to rank order it, how would it look one through four, one through five? Thank you.

展望2025年，顯然有機會重新奪回一些SiP份額，而且似乎也為AI的持續成長奠定了基礎。但是，當我們看看對 Amkor 有利的公司具體事項時，您會如何制定這份清單？如果要對其進行排序，從一到四、從一到五會是什麼樣子？謝謝。

Yeah. Let me scan through the opportunities as we see it, Craig. I mean let's start with communication. We already covered that. Now regaining the SiP socket in the next-generation phone is critical. That will not initiate growth. We expect a flat communication year, although we see some more recovery in the Android side, but we currently plan for a flat communication year.

是的。克雷格，讓我來回顧一下我們看到的機會。我的意思是讓我們從溝通開始。我們已經討論過了。現在重新獲得下一代手機中的 SiP 插槽至關重要。這不會促進增長。我們預計今年的通訊業務將保持平穩，儘管我們看到 Android 方面將出現更多復甦，但我們目前計劃今年的通訊業務將保持穩定。

If we take automotive in the previous, let's say, question, I covered that. We definitely see upsides on the advanced products in automotive, both for ADAS as well as infotainment. With lease customers there, we have a strong pipeline. And we also see that next-generation products are being introduced, and that will refresh that pipeline to the market, and that will materialize in revenue in 2025.

如果我們以上一個問題為例，關於汽車，我已經討論過了。我們確實看到了汽車領域先進產品的優勢，無論是 ADAS 還是資訊娛樂。透過那裡的租賃客戶，我們擁有強大的管道。我們也看到下一代產品正在推出，這將刷新市場管道，並將在 2025 年實現收入。

Mainstream products in automotive stays a little bit vague, and that also includes our power and power modules going into that market. The EV market is a little bit soft at this moment, but there is definitely hope and feedback from customers that even on the mature side of automotive, we will see recovery during the year. Not a breakthrough but at least we now have seen almost three years in a row of decline, and we hope that we see a flat to slightly up year in '25.

汽車領域的主流產品仍然有點模糊，其中還包括我們進入該市場的電源和電源模組。目前，電動車市場有點疲軟，但客戶肯定抱有希望，並且反饋表明，即使在汽車市場成熟期，我們也將在今年看到復甦。雖然不是一個突破，但至少我們已經看到連續近三年的下滑，我們希望在25年看到持平或略有上升。

Now then move into the compute segment. We have many, let's say, opportunities going forward. There's also a significant uncertainty because this is the segment that is being hit by recent China restrictions. We had a strong pipeline there. And currently, we discount these devices -- because of that uncertainty, we didn't want to include that in our planning on the 2.5D and also on the RDL-based technology. We definitely see upsides, but we are conservative to call that a growth year. We currently see this as, let's say, slightly up, worst case to flat year for 2025.

現在進入計算部分。可以說，我們未來有很多機會。由於這一領域近期受到了中國限制措施的打擊，因此也存在著很大的不確定性。我們在那裡擁有強大的管道。目前，我們不考慮這些設備——由於這種不確定性，我們不想將其納入 2.5D 和基於 RDL 的技術規劃中。我們確實看到了上行空間，但我們保守地稱之為增長年。我們目前認為，2025 年可能會略有上升，但最糟的情況是持平。

And then last but not least, the consumer market. We expect that the current program will run for the full year 2025, and that will contribute to a flat to slightly up year. Again, also significant uncertainty on the more mature products still. So we're guiding quite conservative there for the full year, and we take a conservative look. So all in all, there are no breakout opportunities, but I believe, I would say, we have a solid project pipeline going into all the market segments.

最後但同樣重要的一點是消費市場。我們預計當前計劃將持續到 2025 年全年，這將導致今年的產量持平或略有上升。同樣，較成熟的產品仍存在很大的不確定性。因此，我們對全年的預期是相當保守的，而且我們採取保守的看法。總而言之，沒有突破的機會，但我相信，我們擁有進入所有細分市場的堅實專案管道。

Randy Abrams, UBS.

瑞銀的蘭迪艾布拉姆斯（Randy Abrams）。

Thank you. My first question, I actually wanted to touch on the CapEx where you're guiding to $825 million. And I know you said you have some for Vietnam. But given that conservative outlook, maybe go through on the remaining piece, where the allocation of spend and priorities between test, assembly or any other special investment, I think, you mentioned on the power module side?

謝謝。我的第一個問題實際上是想談談您預計的 8.25 億美元資本支出。我知道您說過您有一些要去越南的。但考慮到保守的觀點，也許我們會繼續討論剩下的部分，即測試、組裝或任何其他特殊投資之間的支出分配和優先順序，我想，您提到了電源模組方面？

Yeah, I'll leave that to Megan to cover this, Randy. Thanks for the question.

是的，我會讓梅根來處理這件事，蘭迪。謝謝你的提問。

Hi Randy. our target is $850 million. I think I heard you say $825 million. I just wanted to clarify that. And so how that rolls out, about 70% of that is intended for capacity and capability. And the primary areas are in the high-performance computing market. We're intending to spend similar dollars on our high-performance computing for leading-edge technology, so the next generation of RDL and bridge technology as we work on those next generations.

你好，蘭迪。我們的目標是8.5億美元。我想我聽到你說的是8.25億美元。我只是想澄清這一點。那麼如何實施呢，其中約 70% 用於容量和能力。主要領域是高效能運算市場。我們打算在用於尖端技術的高效能運算上投入類似的資金，因此我們正在研究下一代 RDL 和橋接技術。

The second area would be advanced SiP and then the third largest would be test. So following that capacity and capability, we have about 25% on facilities and construction. And that's a little bit more elevated than what our historical intensity would be, but that is because we're allocating about 5% to 10% for our Arizona facility. And then the last 5% is on quality and R&D. We have earmarked certain investments for quality, including automation in our factories.

第二個領域是先進的 SiP，第三大領域是測試。因此，除了產能和能力之外，我們還將把約 25% 的資金用於設施和建設。這比我們的歷史強度要高一點，但這是因為我們為亞利桑那州的工廠分配了約 5% 到 10%。最後 5% 是關於品質和研發。我們已撥出一定的投資用於提高質量，包括工廠的自動化。

I did want to point out that the CHIPS funding that would be tied to some of these investments is tied to certain milestones and so the timing of receipt for those is uncertain and is not incorporated into those guides. We do not expect to receive material grants in 2025 given those milestones.

我確實想指出的是，與其中一些投資掛鉤的 CHIPS 資金與某些里程碑掛鉤，因此這些資金的收到時間不確定，並且未納入這些指南中。鑑於這些里程碑，我們預計 2025 年不會收到重大補助。

Okay. Good color on that. I actually wanted to ask because of a lot of commentary in the market there is on tariffs affecting a few areas. First, if you're seeing any pull-ins. There's been some talk on consumer side, but also given Mexico, Canada, like if anything happening on automotive. So that's one, if it's affecting timing of shipments.

好的。顏色很好。我實際上想問一下，因為市場上有很多關於影響一些領域的關稅的評論。首先，如果您看到任何拉動。消費者方面已經有一些討論，但考慮到墨西哥、加拿大，汽車方面也發生了一些事情。如果它影響到發貨時間，那就是其中之一。

Second is on shifts. There's some talk about whether Taiwan gets some tariffs. And if you're seeing any potential customer engagement or swing where that's the way to bypass tariff, could shift assembly. So curious on geographic shift, if there could be any swings for your business from that side, too.

第二是輪班。關於台灣是否會被徵收部分關稅存在一些討論。如果你看到任何潛在客戶的參與或轉變，這就是繞過關稅的方法，可以轉移組裝。我對地理轉變感到好奇，想知道這是否也會對您的業務產生影響。

Well, Randy, let me make a few remarks on tariffs. I mean currently, the impact is a little bit vague still because the tariff situation is not really well defined yet. Short term, we don't expect a significant impact. I mean, the impact that you referred to in automotive, we currently don't see that. We believe that there is still about three-month inventory in the supply chain, which is still an elevated inventory level. And so I don't expect any constraints there driving short-term impact on prices.

好吧，蘭迪，讓我就關稅問題發表一些評論。我的意思是，目前，影響仍然有點模糊，因為關稅情況還沒有完全明確。短期內，我們預計不會產生重大影響。我的意思是，您提到的汽車領域的影響，我們目前還沒有看到。我們認為供應鏈中仍有大約三個月的庫存，這仍然處於高庫存水準。因此我預計任何限制因素不會對價格產生短期影響。

Now with respect to Taiwan, it's difficult to say I cannot comment to that, but I didn't hear any specifics here. On the other hand, what we saw is a significant impact on the latest rulemaking of the US administration that came in, in December '24 and December '25. I already referred to that with respect to the export of certain products into China related to AI that's significantly stricter than before, where products that were allowed to be exported are now on the list of limited or restricted exported products.

現在關於台灣問題，很難說我不能對此發表評論，但我沒有聽到這裡的任何具體資訊。另一方面，我們看到，2024年12月和25年12月美國政府的最新規則制定受到了重大影響。我之前提到過，關於某些與人工智慧相關的產品出口到中國，現在的限制比以前要嚴格得多，而先前允許出口的產品現在都被列入了限制出口產品名單。

Also, we see that in the OSAT environment and in the foundry environment, there is a discrimination between approved companies and design companies and approved OSAT, and that took quite a bit of work on our side to look at the compliance. But I feel that could, to some extent, work in our benefit, although there is still uncertainty going forward. So a bit of uncertainty, and difficult to say what the specifics will be, Randy.

此外，我們發現在 OSAT 環境和代工環境中，經批准的公司和設計公司以及經批准的 OSAT 之間存在歧視，這需要我們做大量工作來審查合規性。但我覺得，儘管未來仍然存在不確定性，但在某種程度上，這可能對我們有利。所以有點不確定，很難說具體情況是什麼，蘭迪。

Charles Shi, Needham.

查爾斯·施（Charles Shi），尼德漢姆。

Yeah. I want to go back to the full year outlook. You guys are expecting probably flat, up a little bit for the full year given the slow start to the year, right, Q1 down 7% year-on-year. It does seem to require some really above-seasonal growth into second half. But might -- if you help us a little bit more here, what is the normal seasonality? Like half of a half, maybe we can use that metric. And what's the expectation for that particular metric that would inform us that you're going to have above-seasonal growth in the second half of the year?

是的。我想回顧一下全年展望。由於今年開局緩慢，你們預計全年可能會持平，或者略有增長，對吧，第一季同比下降 7%。看起來確實需要下半年出現一些真正高於季節性的增長。但是，如果您能在這裡多幫我們一點忙的話，正常的季節性是什麼？例如一半一半，也許我們可以使用這個度量標準。您對這個特定指標的預期是什麼？它能告訴我們今年下半年您的成長將高於季節性嗎？

Yeah, Charles, that's a good question. Let me ask Megan to give you more details to increase your level of understanding.

是的，查爾斯，這是個好問題。我請梅根向您提供更多細節，以提高您的理解水平。

Hi Charles, So our seasonal pattern for the growth or for a typical year would be 45% in the first half and 55% in the second half. And so given the dynamics happening within the communications market, where our first half will be muted and I would say lower than seasonal and with our confidence that we will regain that socket, it's going to amplify that first half, second half.

你好，查爾斯，所以我們的成長季節性模式或一個典型年份的成長模式是上半年成長 45%，下半年成長 55%。因此，考慮到通訊市場內部的動態，我們的上半年將會比較平靜，而且我想說會低於季節性，我們有信心重新獲得這一市場，這將放大上半年和下半年的勢頭。

We've already given the flat to low single-digit growth for the full year. So as you're looking at those models, that will require the second half growth to be quite considerable. It could even rise to the levels that were similar to Q4 '22. And so with that, you would be able to see how the shape of the year could be magnified even to a 40-60 pattern.

我們已經預期全年成長率將維持在持平至低個位數之間。所以當你看這些模型時，你會發現下半年的成長需要相當可觀。它甚至可能上升到與22年第四季類似的水平。這樣一來，你就能看到年份的形狀如何被放大到 40-60 的模式。

That's very helpful. Maybe a question on regaining the socket with your high-end smartphone customer. So I think you mentioned you do have the line of sight for that particular socket to be going into production in maybe Q3, sounds like, this year. So how confident you are in terms of that particular socket will definitely go into this year's model? Well, we did have a little bit of surprise last year, right, heading into Q3 and Q4. And what's your confidence level right now for regaining that particular socket?

這非常有幫助。這可能是關於如何重新獲得高階智慧型手機客戶青睞的問題。所以我認為你提到你確實有預見到該特定的插座可能會在今年第三季投入生產。那麼，對於該特定插座一定會用於今年的型號，您有多大信心？嗯，去年我們確實有一點驚喜，對吧，進入第三季和第四季。您現在對於重新獲得該插座的信心程度如何？

Yes. The confidence level is high. Charles, I already mentioned before that we have a long-standing track record with this customer to bring new technology to the market. There's a clear cooperation model with strict milestones that are identified and also the preparation for mass production in the third quarter, that timing and that plan and the, let's say, the milestones for mass production are well defined.

是的。置信度很高。查爾斯，我之前提到過，我們與該客戶有著長期的合作，致力於將新技術推向市場。有一個明確的合作模式，確定了嚴格的里程碑，也為第三季的量產做好了準備，時間和計劃，以及量產的里程碑都是明確的。

So as I mentioned before, this was a strategic decision of the end customer. We're confident and all the indications that we get with respect to project execution as well as mass production milestones are pointing that we are ready for Q3 '25 ramp for this product.

正如我之前提到的，這是最終客戶的策略決策。我們充滿信心，專案執行和量產里程碑的所有跡像都表明，我們已準備好在 25 年第三季推出產品。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tom Diffley, DA Davidson.

湯姆迪夫利、 DA 戴維森。

Yeah. Good afternoon. I appreciate the chance to ask the question. Giel, I wanted to talk a little bit more about the high-end compute market. Obviously, you ramped up very quickly over the last year and a half your 2.5D capability or capacity. I'm curious, when you look at moving to the next-generation package type, is that going to require just an upgrade to your existing capacity or is that completely new capacity and then you ought to backfill the old 2.5D with new clients?

是的。午安.我很感謝有機會提出這個問題。吉爾，我想再多談談高階運算市場。顯然，在過去的一年半里，你們的 2.5D 能力或產能提升非常快。我很好奇，當您考慮轉向下一代封裝類型時，是否只需要升級現有容量，還是完全新容量，然後您應該用新客戶端來填補舊的 2.5D？

Yeah, that's a good question, Tom. Actually, we mentioned in our last earnings call that the investments that we did in 2024 was, to a high extent, fungible capacity. And that means that it can be used in a broader sense for wafer-based technology, and we include the 2.5D. We include RDL-based technology and in the next step also in, let's say, in bridge technology for next-generation devices.

是的，這是個好問題，湯姆。實際上，我們在上次財報電話會議上提到，我們在 2024 年所做的投資在很大程度上是可替代產能。這意味著它可以更廣泛地用於基於晶圓的技術，其中包括 2.5D。我們將包括基於 RDL 的技術，並且下一步還將包括用於下一代設備的橋接技術。

So it's a fungible technology, and we prove that also now that with limited volumes or we adjusted our volumes for 2.5D, it enables us to ramp the devices that we currently have in RDL-based technology. We ramped that up in parallel. So yeah, I think that's how we see it at this point in time, Tom.

所以它是一種可替代的技術，而且我們現在也證明，在有限的產量或我們將產量調整為 2.5D 的情況下，它使我們能夠提升目前基於 RDL 技術的設備的產量。我們同時加大了這一力度。是的，我想這就是我們目前的看法，湯姆。

So when you look at the $850 million in CapEx, that's going to increase overall capacity, not just transform it into the newer capacity then?

那麼，當您看到 8.5 億美元的資本支出時，這將會增加總產能，而不僅僅是將其轉變為更新的產能？

That's how we see it. I mentioned before, we have a broad project pipeline. We're also seeing the opportunity in the AI data centers to broaden beyond the, I would say, the main GPU in data centers, and that goes into a domain like CPUs and networking in data centers. They all use advanced packaging technology. So our project pipeline is not only related to the GPUs but definitely expands into other devices that go into the data centers.

我們就是這樣看待它的。我之前提到過，我們有廣泛的專案管道。我們也看到了 AI 資料中心的擴展機會，我認為，它可以超越資料中心的主要 GPU，進入資料中心的 CPU 和網路等領域。它們都採用了先進的封裝技術。因此，我們的專案流程不僅與 GPU 相關，而且肯定會擴展到進入資料中心的其他裝置。

That's very helpful. And as a follow-up, Megan, I was wondering if you could get some more specifics about what is behind the tax raise from '24 to '25.

這非常有幫助。作為後續問題，梅根，我想知道您是否可以更具體地了解 24 年至 25 年加稅背後的原因。

Sure, Tom. It's related to the Pillar Two and how that is being adopted at specific jurisdictions. So we're anticipating a couple of percentage impact to our effective tax rate for the full year.

當然，湯姆。這與第二支柱以及其在特定司法管轄區的採用方式有關。因此，我們預計全年有效稅率將受到幾個百分點的影響。

Okay. I appreciate your time.

好的。我很感謝您的時間。

Steven Fox, Fox advisors.

史蒂文‧福克斯 (Steven Fox)，福克斯顧問。

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for all the color so far. I was just wondering if there's a way just to step back from all the program-specific color that you provided, just to talk about the state of some of the broader markets, you're -- what you're assuming happens in the second half, specifically on edge devices, AI PCs and smartphones and on the more traditional auto markets that you're serving. Then I had a follow-up.

你好。午安.感謝迄今為止的所有色彩。我只是想知道，是否有辦法擺脫您提供的所有特定於程式的細節，只談論一些更廣泛市場的狀況，您假設下半年會發生什麼，特別是在邊緣設備、人工智慧個人電腦和智慧型手機以及您所服務的更傳統的汽車市場。然後我進行了後續跟進。

Well, Steven, that's a very good question, but that doesn't make it an easy question to answer. We believe that AI will continue over the next years to provide opportunities. It started off with opportunities in devices that were used for training.

嗯，史蒂文，這是一個非常好的問題，但這不是一個容易回答的問題。我們相信，人工智慧將在未來幾年繼續提供機會。它始於用於訓練的設備方面的機會。

And we now go into inference, and then we go to edge devices. We also see applications being launched also in the edge devices like in PCs but also in smartphones recently with applications in the iOS phones but also in the Android phones already.

我們現在進入推理，然後進入邊緣設備。我們也看到應用程式也在邊緣裝置（如個人電腦）中推出，最近在智慧型手機中也有推出，iOS 手機中和 Android 手機中也已經有應用程式。

So all of that will drive an upgrade on the hardware side and upgrades on the hardware side. Ultimately, we believe that, that will drive an upside for semiconductors in general. And we believe in that pipeline, with our technology base with our at-scale capacity and with our partnership network, including feeding into the foundries that we are well positioned to capture these opportunities over the next couple of years.

所以所有這些都將推動硬體方面的升級和硬體方面的升級。最終，我們相信，這將推動整個半導體產業的上漲。我們相信，憑藉我們的技術基礎、規模產能和合作夥伴網絡，包括向代工廠提供支持，我們有能力在未來幾年抓住這些機會。

Fair enough. Sorry, I didn't mean to put you on the spot like that. And then just as a follow-up, can you just give us a sense for when you would expect to start receiving the CHIPS Act grants, like not exactly month but just sort of how many quarters into the capacity expansion would you start hitting the hurdles to receive funding back from the US government?

很公平。抱歉，我不是故意要讓你如此為難。然後作為後續問題，您能否告訴我們您預計何時開始獲得《CHIPS 法案》的資助，例如不是具體月份，而是產能擴張多少個季度後，您會開始遇到障礙，無法從美國政府獲得資金？

Steven, so with respect to how the grants are outlined, they're attached to certain milestones during the project. So as we start our construction and as we move into 2026, we'll be able to give you a better feel for that. I think what's important to keep in mind is what our total investment for that project is expected to be, and that's over three to five years.

史蒂文，關於贈款的概述，它們與計畫期間的某些里程碑相關。因此，當我們開始建造並進入 2026 年時，我們將能夠讓您更好地感受到這一點。我認為需要牢記的是我們對該項目的預計總投資是多少，這將持續三到五年。

We've shared that, that could be about $2 billion. And between the CHIPS grant as well as investment tax credits combined, that together could be about $800 million in reduction. The timing of how that comes in is where it's a bit choppy from a cash flow perspective. So we'll make sure to update that as soon as we have more information.

我們已經分享過，這個數字可能約為 20 億美元。CHIPS 補助和投資稅收抵免加起來可以減少約 8 億美元。從現金流角度來看，這情況出現的時機有點不穩定。因此，一旦我們獲得更多信息，我們將確保立即更新。

Steve Barger, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

KeyBanc 資本市場公司的 Steve Barger。

Giel, with seven quarters of automotive declines, it just seems strange that that's all inventory. Are there any customers or product lines across ADAS or infotainment or electrification that seem to be getting desourced or cannibalized? Or is this really chasing down inventory and demand levels?

吉爾，汽車銷售已連續七季下滑，但奇怪的是這全都是庫存。在 ADAS 或資訊娛樂或電氣化領域，是否有任何客戶或產品線似乎正在被剝離或蠶食？或者這真的是為了降低庫存和需求水準？

Yes, that's a good question, Steve. I mean the -- if we look at the seven quarters decline in a row, and I mentioned that in my prepared remarks, it is mostly the mainstream portfolio. If we take the advanced packaging portfolio, we see more strength there even in an overall declining automotive and industrial market. That's still stable to up year-on-year.

是的，這是個好問題，史蒂夫。我的意思是——如果我們看一下連續七個季度的下滑，我在準備好的發言中提到過，這主要是主流投資組合。如果我們採用先進的封裝產品組合，即使在整體汽車和工業市場下滑的情況下，我們也會看到其更強的實力。與去年同期相比，這一數字仍然穩定上升。

So we believe that ADAS, infotainment, in-car networking continues to be a growth area. And also the inventory level is less prominent than on the mainstream products. I think the mainstream products, if I look at the latest reporting of our top six automotive customers, they see a gradual decline in the excess inventory. And they believe that during 2025, first half, that would be stable.

因此，我們相信 ADAS、資訊娛樂、車載網路將繼續成為一個成長領域。而且庫存水準也不如主流產品那麼突出。我認為，如果我查看我們六大汽車客戶的最新報告，主流產品的過剩庫存正在逐漸下降。他們相信，2025 年上半年，這數字將會穩定下來。

And after that, we would go into a mode where inventory gets replenished. Now while we were overshooting delivering product into that inventory after COVID, currently, the end customer, the automotive customers are probably undershooting a little bit because they go back to a very lean inventory level. And but we expect that, that situation will turn.

之後，我們將進入庫存補充模式。現在，雖然在疫情過後，我們的產品交付量超過了庫存量，但目前，最終客戶，即汽車客戶的交付量可能略有不足，因為他們的庫存水平已經回到非常精簡的水平。但我們預計，這種情況將會轉變。

So step back, on the advanced products, inventory is much less, and we keep that business running, and we see upsides in 2025. The main declines are on the mainstream products, mostly wire bond, lead frame products, still significant volume also on microcontrollers that go into automotive but certainly also in industrial applications, and that will take longer. And although it's still vague what '25 will bring, there is optimism at our customer base.

因此，退一步來說，對於先進產品來說，庫存要少得多，我們保持業務運轉，並且我們預計 2025 年將出現上升空間。主要的下滑是在主流產品上，主要是引線鍵合、引線框架產品，汽車用微控制器的銷量仍然很大，但肯定也包括工業應用，這將需要更長的時間。儘管我們仍不清楚 25 年會帶來什麼，但我們的客戶群仍然持樂觀態度。

Can you tell us what percentage of automotive is advanced products now? Or what percentage is flat to up versus the stuff that's more challenged?

您能告訴我們現在汽車中先進產品的比例是多少嗎？或者與更具挑戰性的內容相比，持平或上升的百分比是多少？

Well, we generally don't report it, but I would say the mainstream product is still more than 50%, although advanced product is ramping up much quicker than mainstream. So as a rough estimate, let's say, 60% to 40%, that would be, what it was, with 40% being advanced products and 60%, our mainstream portfolio.

嗯，我們通常不會報告這個，但我想說主流產品仍然超過 50%，儘管高級產品的成長速度比主流產品快得多。粗略估計，60% 比 40% 就是這個比例，其中 40% 是先進產品，60% 是我們的主流產品組合。

Got it. And then just a quick follow-up. I know test has become a more important part of your business, and I imagine 2.5D was the driver of that. So how has your outlook for tester utilization rates changed? Or are you seeing other areas of the business ramp where test intensity is increasing?

知道了。然後只是快速的跟進。我知道測試已經成為你們業務中越來越重要的一部分，我想 2.5D 就是其中的驅動力。那麼，您對測試人員利用率的展望有何變化？或者您看到業務成長的其他領域中的測試強度正在增加？

Yes. Good question. We see test clearly as an area of opportunity. If we take our communication business, then we have a very high test rate, so the products that we are assembling but also testing. That's also the case for automotive. For some other areas, we have less test rates, but we're definitely investing in that.

是的。好問題。我們清楚地看到測試是一個充滿機會的領域。如果我們從事通訊業務，那麼我們的測試率就非常高，因此我們組裝的產品也會進行測試。對於汽車產業也是如此。對於其他一些地區，我們的測試率較低，但我們肯定會在這方面進行投資。

We believe that there is a high, maybe a too high concentration of tests in Taiwan currently, with the test houses being there, et cetera. And feedback that we're getting out of the supply chain is that that's considered to be a risk.

我們認為，目前台灣的測試集中度很高，甚至可能過高，包括測試機構等。我們從供應鏈得到的回饋是，這被認為是一種風險。

So we're actively working to find, let's say, a test location and test capacity that can accommodate an expanding specifically compute supply chain where there's a high concentration in Taiwan. So yes, test is important. We're actively working on expanding that and then prominently prominently in the compute segment.

因此，我們正在積極努力地尋找一個測試地點和測試能力，以適應不斷擴大的特定計算供應鏈，而台灣的這種供應鏈高度集中。所以是的，測試很重要。我們正在積極致力於擴大這一領域，並在計算領域佔據突出地位。

And at this time, I'm showing no further questions. I would like to turn the call back over to Giel for closing remarks.

此刻，我沒有其他問題。我想將電話轉回給吉爾，請他作最後發言。

Thank you. Thanks for all the questions. Let me recap the key messages. Year '24 met our expectations, except for the prolonged weakness in the automotive and industrial end markets. We set record revenue for computing and advanced SiP.

謝謝。感謝您提出的所有問題。讓我回顧一下關鍵訊息。除了汽車和工業終端市場長期疲軟外，24年的表現符合我們的預期。我們在計算和先進 SiP 方面創下了創紀錄的收入。

For full year 2025, we expect a stronger-than-seasonal second half driven by content recovery in the next generation of IOS phones. We continue to invest in our technology leadership, expanding our global footprint and partnerships with industry leaders. Thank you for joining the call.

對於 2025 年全年而言，我們預計下半年的業績將強於季節性，這得益於下一代 IOS 手機的內容恢復。我們繼續投資於我們的技術領導地位，擴大我們的全球影響力和與產業領袖的合作夥伴關係。感謝您加入通話。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's conference call. You may not disconnect.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們。今天的電話會議到此結束。您不能斷開連線。