Alexander's Inc (ALX) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Vornado Realty Trust fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. My name is Betsy, and I will be your operator for today's call. This call is being recorded for replay purposes. (Operator Instructions)

早安，歡迎參加 Vornado Realty Trust 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。我叫貝琪，今天我將擔任您的電話接線生。本次通話將會錄音以供重播。（操作員指令）

I will now turn the call over to Mr. Steve Borenstein, Executive Vice President and Corporate Counsel. Please go ahead.

現在我將電話轉給執行副總裁兼公司法律顧問史蒂夫‧博倫斯坦先生。請繼續。

Welcome to Vornado Realty Trust's fourth-quarter earnings call. Yesterday afternoon, we issued our fourth quarter earnings release and filed our annual report on Form 10-K with the Securities and Exchange Commission. These documents as well as our supplemental financial information package are available on our website, www.vno.com, under the Investor Relations section. In these documents and during today's call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included in our earnings release, Form 10-K, and financial supplement.

歡迎參加 Vornado Realty Trust 第四季財報電話會議。昨天下午，我們發布了第四季度收益報告，並向美國證券交易委員會提交了 10-K 表年度報告。這些文件以及我們的補充財務資訊包可在我們的網站 www.vno.com 的投資者關係部分找到。在這些文件中以及今天的電話會議中，我們將討論某些非公認會計準則財務指標。這些指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳包含在我們的收益報告、10-K 表和財務補充文件中。

Please be aware that statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements, and actual results may differ materially from these statements due to a variety of risks, uncertainties, and other factors. Please refer to our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, for more information regarding these risks and uncertainties.

請注意，本次電話會議中所作的陳述可能被視為前瞻性陳述，由於各種風險、不確定性和其他因素，實際結果可能與這些陳述有重大差異。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 10-K 表年度報告。

The call may include time-sensitive information that may be accurate only as of today's date. The company does not undertake a duty to update any forward-looking statements.

通話中可能包含時間敏感訊息，這些訊息可能僅在今天準確。該公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的責任。

On the call today from management for our opening comments are Steven Roth, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Michael Franco, President and Chief Financial Officer; our senior team is also present and available for questions.

今天管理層電話會議上為我們致開幕詞的有董事長兼首席執行官史蒂文·羅斯 (Steven Roth)；以及總裁兼首席財務官 Michael Franco；我們的高級團隊也在場並可以解答問題。

I will now turn the call over to Steven Roth.

現在我將電話轉給史蒂文·羅斯。

Thank you, Steve, and good morning, everyone. At Vornado, business is good, really good and getting better. New York is our home, and everyone agrees that the New York real estate markets are hidden shoulders strongest in the nation.

謝謝你，史蒂夫，大家早安。Vornado 的生意很好，非常好，而且越來越好。紐約是我們的家，每個人都同意紐約房地產市場是全美最強大的隱形市場。

As I have said before, while Newark has over 400 million square feet of office, we really only compete in a narrower market of about 188 million square feet of the better space. Availability in the better space market is 10.7% versus 20.1% in the not better space market. And that 10.7% availability is evaporating very quickly.

正如我之前所說，雖然紐瓦克擁有超過 4 億平方英尺的辦公空間，但實際上我們僅在約 1.88 億平方英尺的優質空間的較窄市場中競爭。較好空間市場的可用性為 10.7%，而較不較好空間市場的可用性為 20.1%。而這 10.7% 的可用性正在迅速消失。

Park Avenue is already under 7%. Add to that, that the cost of a new build tower in New York has just about doubled over the last six to seven years. And with the cost of debt, it's a 6% new supply is frozen. There hasn't been a major new building start in five years and once started delivery takes five to seven years.

公園大道 (Park Avenue) 的稅率已低於 7%。此外，過去六到七年來，紐約新建一棟摩天大樓的成本幾乎翻了一番。由於債務成本，6%的新供應被凍結。五年來沒有開工建造大型新建築，一旦開工就需要五到七年的時間才能交付。

Taken together, this all creates a landlord market. We expect rents to rise aggressively, one might even say rents to spike. And in fact, rents have already some rise. So all good, very good.

綜合起來，這一切都創造了一個房東市場。我們預計租金將大幅上漲，甚至可能會出現租金飆升。事實上，租金已經有所上漲。一切都很好，非常好。

Why New York? New York is America's World City, New York's human and physical capital is irreplaceable. We have the largest, most educated workforce, the best transit system for commuting from our vast suburbs. You may read this as a plug for the PENN District and I guess it is the largest number of corporate headquarters, the best restaurants and museums, and eight professional sports teams even though the damn Yankees can seem to beat the Brooklyn Dodgers.

為什麼是紐約？紐約是美國的世界城市，紐約的人力和物質資本是無可取代的。我們擁有最龐大、教育程度最高的勞動力，以及往返廣大郊區的最佳交通系統。您可能會將此視為賓夕法尼亞區 (PENN District) 的宣傳，但我認為這裡擁有最多的公司總部、最好的餐廳和博物館，以及八支職業運動隊，儘管該死的洋基隊似乎可以擊敗布魯克林道奇隊。

I would like to focus on a few points in a handful of our recent accomplishments. Work from home was a scare. But as we predicted, it would not last that is not the last. Most have left their kitchen tables and are back at the office. Our stock price increased 49% in 2024 after increasing 35% in 2023.

我想重點談談我們最近取得的一些成就。在家工作令人害怕。但正如我們預測的那樣，這不會持續太久，也不會是最後一次。大多數人已離開廚房餐桌，回到辦公室。我們的股價在 2023 年上漲 35% 之後，2024 年又上漲了 49%。

In 2024, we leased 3.4 million square feet overall, of which 2.65 million square feet was New York office at market-leading $104 starting rents with mark-to-markets of 2.5% cash and 10.9% [GAAP].

2024 年，我們總共租賃了 340 萬平方英尺，其中 265 萬平方英尺為紐約辦公室，起租價格為 104 美元，處於市場領先地位，按市價計價的現金率為 2.5%，利率為 10.9% [GAAP]。

For the second year in a row, we completed the most premium $100-plus deals in New York and 18 transactions for 1.36 million square feet. And we completed 3 of the top 10 largest office deals in New York. We completed 285,000 square feet of deals at [10-1] at $98 starting rents, exceeding our underwriting. We completed 25 retail leases totaling 187,000 square feet highlighted by Manhattan's first prime wire in the PENN District. We completed the UNIQLO sale at 666 Fifth Avenue at a record price of $20,000 per square foot.

我們連續第二年在紐約完成了最多的 100 美元以上的優質交易，共完成了 18 筆交易，交易面積達 136 萬平方英尺。我們完成了紐約十大最大辦公室交易中的三項。我們以[10-1]的價格完成了285,000平方英尺的交易，起價租金為98美元，超過了我們的承保範圍。我們完成了 25 份零售租賃合同，總面積達 187,000 平方英尺，其中包括曼哈頓賓州區第一條主要商業線。我們以每平方英尺 20,000 美元的創紀錄價格完成了第五大道 666 號的優衣庫銷售。

Last month, we repaid at maturity our 3.5%, $450 million unsecured bonds out of cash on balance sheet and $108 million of our credit lines. Our entire portfolio was 100% LEED certified, and we have the simulation to achieve this milestone.

上個月，我們用資產負債表上的現金和 1.08 億美元的信用額度償還了到期的 3.5%、4.5 億美元的無擔保債券。我們的整個產品組合均 100% 獲得了 LEED 認證，我們擁有實現這一里程碑的模擬系統。

We are on the 2-yard line with a handful of important deals. We finally complete -- we will finally complete the master lease to NYU at our 1.1 million square foot 770 Broadway by the end of the month. This deal will relieve our balance sheet of $700 million of debt on this asset and eliminate 500,000 square feet of vacancy.

我們正處於兩碼線上，有幾筆重要的交易。我們最終完成了——我們將在本月底完成紐約大學 770 百老匯 110 萬平方英尺辦公大樓的主租約。這筆交易將減輕我們資產負債表上這項資產的 7 億美元債務，並消除 50 萬平方英尺的空置空間。

By the way, this large and impressive building on the edge of the NYU campus will be their Science Center. I have seen the plans. It will be a world-class education facility which will make NYU an even greater or lease higher education institution. That's great to NYU and that's great for New York. We will shortly refinance 1535 Broadway, which will allow us to redeem for cash over $400 million of our retail JV preferreds. And we have several asset sales in the works. Taken together, these transactions will shortly generate an incremental additional $1 billion of new cash.

順便說一句，紐約大學校園邊緣這座宏偉的建築將成為他們的科學中心。我已經看過這些計劃了。它將成為一個世界一流的教育設施，使紐約大學成為一所更大或更公平的高等教育機構。這對紐約大學和紐約來說都是一件好事。我們很快就會對 1535 Broadway 進行再融資，這將使我們能夠以現金贖回超過 4 億美元的零售合資優先股。我們正在籌劃幾項資產出售。總的來說，這些交易很快就會產生額外的10億美元新現金。

At PENN 2, we are only weeks away from signing a 300,000 square foot lease. PENN 2 is being very well received by tenants and brokers with commentary that it is the best redevelopment anyone has ever seen, and together with PENN 1 has by far the biggest and best amenity package anywhere. We are also engaged in multiple tenant proposals at Vent, including negotiating an LOI for a major headquarters lease.

在 PENN 2，我們距離簽署 30 萬平方英尺的租約只有幾週的時間了。PENN 2 受到租戶和經紀人的一致好評，他們認為這是有史以​​來最好的重建項目，並且與 PENN 1 一起擁有迄今為止最大、最好的便利設施。我們也參與了 Vent 的多個租戶提案，包括就主要總部租賃的意向書進行談判。

I'm predicting that PENN's will likely be 80% leased by year-end. We are achieving rents here above our underwriting. And accordingly, we have increased the incremental yield on page 16 of our supplement to 10.2%. We will deliver Pier 94 on Manhattan's West Side by year-end 2025, the first ever purpose-built film and television south pages in Manhattan.

我預測到年底 PENN 的租賃率可能會達到 80%。我們在這裡實現的租金高於承保水準。因此，我們將補充資料第 16 頁的增量收益率提高到 10.2%。我們將在 2025 年底前建造曼哈頓西區的 94 號碼頭，這是曼哈頓第一個專門建造的影視南區。

Now for those interested in Alexander, our 32.4% owned affiliate. In the second quarter of 2024, we early renewed the 947,000 square foot Bloomberg office lease at 731 Lexington Avenue, whose expiry is now pushed out to 2040. At Rego Park in Queens, we are moving Burlington and Marshall, the last remaining tenants at Rego 1 to our adjacent Rego 2 shopping center, thereby filling up Rego 2 and creating a fully vacant blank canvas at Rego 1 for either sale or development.

現在，對於那些對我們持有 32.4% 股份的附屬公司亞歷山大 (Alexander) 感興趣的人。2024 年第二季度，我們提前續約了位於列剋星敦大道 731 號 947,000 平方英尺的彭博辦公室租約，該租約到期時間現已推遲至 2040 年。在皇后區的雷哥公園，我們正在將 Rego 1 剩下的最後兩名租戶伯靈頓和馬歇爾搬遷到我們相鄰的 Rego 2 購物中心，從而填滿 Rego 2，並在 Rego 1 創造出一個完全空置的空白區域，用於出售或開發。

Obviously, we believe this unique 5-acre parcel of land wonderfully located at the intersection of Queens Boulevard and Junction Boulevard and bordering the Long Island Expressway is worth more as land than the 66-year-old building.

顯然，我們認為這塊佔地 5 英畝的獨特土地，地理位置優越，位於皇后大道和樞紐大道的交匯處，毗鄰長島高速公路，其價值比這座 66 年歷史的建築更高。

I believe Alexanders stock substantially undervalues its assets, and we will have to do something about that. 350 Park Avenue development is on schedule. The new building is now fully designed and it will stand out as being truly, truly best-in-class. We are in the formal approval process under the Midtown East zoning and Citadel, our major tenant and Ken Griffin, our partner. We'll shortly begin moving out of 350 Park into swing space, so the demolition can begin early next year.

我認為亞歷山大的股票大大低估了其資產，我們必須對此採取措施。350 Park Avenue 的開發正在按計劃進行。新建築目前已完成設計，將脫穎而出，成為名副其實的一流建築。我們正處於中城東區分區、主要租戶 Citadel 和合作夥伴 Ken Griffin 的正式審批過程中。我們很快就會從 350 Park 搬進臨時空間，以便在明年年初開始拆除工作。

I end by noting how proud our Vornado teams all are of our accomplishments to date in the PENN district.

最後，我要說的是，我們的 Vornado 團隊對我們迄今為止在賓州地區的成就感到非常自豪。

Take a look at Meta at Farley, PENN 1, PENN 2, the Moynihan Train Hall, the Long Island Railroad Concourse, the 33rd Street Plaza, and even PENN 11 and how excited we all are about the future of our city within a city. Next up is the Hotel Penn site, now down to the ground and ready to go.

看看法利的 Meta、賓州大學 1 號校區、賓州大學 2 號校區、莫伊尼漢火車站、長島鐵路大廳、第 33 街廣場，甚至賓州大學 11 號校區，你就會知道我們對這座城中城的未來有多興奮。接下來是賓州飯店 (Hotel Penn) 工地，目前已動工並準備投入使用。

Our PENN District is clearly a site to be seen. If you haven't already said it, please call me to a range of tour. Now to Michael.

我們的賓州區顯然是一個值得一看的景點。如果您還沒說的話，請叫我去參加一系列的旅遊。現在輪到麥可了。

Thank you, Steve, and good morning, everyone. Comparable FFO was $2.26 per share for the year. As previously forecasted, this down from 2023 and due to lower NOI from the known move-outs that we discussed throughout the year and higher net interest expense.

謝謝你，史蒂夫，大家早安。該年度可比 FFO 為每股 2.26 美元。如同先前的預測，這一數字較 2023 年有所下降，原因是我們全年討論的已知遷出導致的淨利息支出較低，以及淨利息支出較高。

But overall, our results were better than we had anticipated earlier in the year. This is primarily due to the acceleration of our leasing activity at 330 West 34th Street, where we recognize lease termination income in connection with executing a 304,000 square foot lease with WeWork on behalf of Amazon.

但總體而言，我們的業績比今年稍早預期的要好。這主要是由於我們在西 34 街 330 號的租賃活動加速，我們代表亞馬遜與 WeWork 簽訂了 304,000 平方英尺的租約，並確認了租約終止收入。

Also, net interest expense ended up being lower versus our original projection due to short-term rates coming down. By the way, we already have almost 80% of the vacant space from the known move out spoken for.

此外，由於短期利率下降，淨利息支出最終低於我們最初的預測。順便說一句，已知遷出後空置的空間已經佔了近 80%。

Fourth-quarter comparable FFO was $0.61 per share compared to $0.63 per share for fourth quarter 2023. This decrease was primarily attributable to higher net interest expense and lower NOI from the known move-outs. Partially offset by the lease termination income at 330 West 34th Street and lower G&A expense. We have provided a quarter-over-quarter bridge on page 3 of our earnings release and on page 6 of our financial supplement.

第四季可比 FFO 為每股 0.61 美元，而 2023 年第四季為每股 0.63 美元。這一下降主要歸因於已知遷出帶來的淨利息支出增加和淨營運利潤減少。部分被西 34 街 330 號的租賃終止收入和較低的 G&A 費用所抵銷。我們在財報第 3 頁和財務補充報告第 6 頁提供了季度間對比情況。

Now turning to 2025. Though our practice is not to give earnings guidance, we can tell you that similar to current consensus, we expect 2025 to be slightly lower than 2024. This is partly due to the previously mentioned lease termination income at 330 West 34th Street that positively impacted 2024 comparable FFO.

現在轉向 2025 年。雖然我們的慣例是不提供獲利預測，但我們可以告訴您，與目前的共識類似，我們預計 2025 年的獲利將略低於 2024 年。這部分是由於前面提到的西 34 街 330 號的租賃終止收入對 2024 年可比 FFO 產生了積極影響。

And as indicated during last quarter's call, the GAAP earnings impact and the backfilling of vacancies and the lease-up of PENN 1 and PENN 2 won't occur until towards the end of 2026, with full positive impact in 2027, resulting in significant earnings growth by 2027.

正如上個季度的電話會議所指出的，GAAP 收益影響、空缺的填補以及 PENN 1 和 PENN 2 的租賃要到 2026 年底才會發生，而全部積極影響將在 2027 年產生，從而實現 2027 年的顯著收益增長。

A few words on occupancy. Our year-ended office occupancy was 88.8%, up from 87.5% last quarter. With the pending full building master lease at 770 Broadway, our office occupancy increases by 330 basis points to 92.1%. As we previously mentioned, our first quarter 2025 occupancy will decrease to the PENN 2 being placed into service. We anticipate that this decrease will be temporary as PENN 2 occupancy stabilizes over the next year and we get to the low 90s.

關於入住率，我再說幾句話。我們年底的辦公室入住率為 88.8%，高於上一季的 87.5%。隨著百老匯 770 號整棟大樓主租約即將簽訂，我們的辦公室入住率增加了 330 個基點，達到 92.1%。正如我們之前提到的，隨著 PENN 2 投入使用，我們的 2025 年第一季入住率將會下降。我們預計，隨著 PENN 2 的入住率在明年逐漸穩定並達到 90% 的水平，這種下降將是暫時的。

Our New York leasing pipeline remains robust as we enter 2025. We have significant activity across our portfolio with 750,000 square feet in negotiation on top of the 1 million square foot master lease being finalized with NYU at 770 Broadway. Additionally, we have another 1.3 million square feet in various stages of proposals and negotiations.

進入 2025 年，我們的紐約租賃管道依然強勁。我們在投資組合中進行了大量活動，除了與紐約大學百老匯 770 號敲定的 100 萬平方英尺主租約外，還有 75 萬平方英尺的空間正在談判中。此外，我們還有另外 130 萬平方英尺的空間處於提案和談判的不同階段。

Turning to the capital markets. Both the financing and investment sales markets are showing encouraging signs over the past few months. The CMBS market is wide open for large, high-quality assets such as ours with appropriate metrics and loan structures.

轉向資本市場。過去幾個月，融資和投資銷售市場都顯示出令人鼓舞的跡象。CMBS 市場對我們這種具有適當指標和貸款結構的大型優質資產敞開著大門。

AAA and overall spreads for recent financings on the spiral and 299 Park Avenue have shown significant tightening over the past six months to levels consistent with pre-COVID. While we expect banks will largely remain the sidelines this year, some banks are beginning to look at financing smaller office deals. A hopeful first sign the trend we expect to continue.

在過去六個月中，螺旋形和 299 公園大道的近期融資的 AAA 和整體利差已顯著收緊至與 COVID 之前一致的水平。雖然我們預計今年銀行將基本保持觀望態度，但一些銀行已開始考慮為小型辦公大樓交易提供融資。這是一個充滿希望的第一個跡象，表明我們預計這一趨勢將會持續下去。

The one negative is a short-term rate after coming down 100 basis points last year, look likely to remain around current levels for the foreseeable future, keeping borrowing costs high. The investment sales market continues to pick up also with some high-quality office assets trading recently, including interest in 320 Park Avenue on Munich Re and 1345 Avenue in Americas by Blackstone.

唯一的負面因素是短期利率在去年下降 100 個基點之後，在可預見的未來很可能仍將維持在當前水準左右，導致借貸成本居高不下。投資銷售市場也持續回暖，最近一些高品質的辦公資產交易，包括慕尼黑再保險對 320 Park Avenue 的權益以及黑石集團對 Americas 1345 Avenue 的權益。

With that, I'll turn it over to the operator for Q&A.

說完這些，我將把問題交給接線員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Steve Sakwa, Evercore ISI.

(操作員指示) Steve Sakwa，Evercore ISI。

Steve, thanks for those great comments about the leasing activity. It sounds like you're close to punching a few things into the end zone here. But maybe you or Glen could just provide a little bit more commentary around some of the timing for PENN 2, I guess, in particular, and just maybe the competitive dynamic that you're seeing for that space and the confidence level you had to raise the yield on PENN 2.

史蒂夫，謝謝你對租賃活動的精彩評論。聽起來你已經接近將一些東西打入終點區了。但也許您或 Glen 可以就 PENN 2 的一些時機提供更多評論，特別是您在該領域看到的競爭動態，以及您對提高 PENN 2 收益率的信心水平。

Hi, Steve. It's Glen. How are you doing? PENN 2 is more than off and running every large head in the market has it in their top three list of what to see. There were only five buildings in Manhattan with blocks available of 500,000 feet or more. We have the best block.

你好，史蒂夫。是格倫。你好嗎？PENN 2 已經開拍多年，市場上每一部大片都將其列入最值得觀看的三大影片之列。曼哈頓僅有五棟建築擁有50萬平方英尺或更大的可用面積。我們有最好的街區。

So as you heard in the remarks, we have a lease out with one tenant that's going to get done in short order for 330,000 feet. We have an LOI and very serious ages for another very large headquarter tenant. And behind all that, we have tenants battling for space from anywhere between 60,000 and 200,000 feet. So PENN 2 is now the bullseye for many people searches, and we're in complete fifth year on our leasing.

正如您在評論中聽到的，我們已經與一位租戶簽訂了 330,000 英尺的租約，並將在短時間內完成。我們已經與另一家非常大的總部租戶簽訂了意向書，並且簽訂了非常嚴格的期限協議。而在這一切的背後，我們還有租戶在 60,000 至 200,000 英尺的高空爭奪空間。因此，PENN 2 現在已成為許多人搜尋的焦點，而且我們的租賃已經進入第五年了。

Okay. And just any comments on just kind of the rents, I guess, that you're sort of seeing. I guess that speaks to kind of the yields being pushed up at that by 70 basis points.

好的。我想，您只是對租金有一些評論而已。我想這說明收益率被推高了 70 個基點。

We've raised our rents across the entire building, from bottom to the top.

我們提高了整棟大樓的租金，從底層到頂層。

John Kim, BMO.

約翰金（BMO）。

I wanted to follow up on Steve's commentary on $1 billion of new cash proceeds you expect. You have $700 million debt pay down at 770 Broadway, $40 million freed up at 1535 Broadway as well. And then on top of that new dispositions, I was wondering how much in new dispositions that you anticipate?

我想跟進史蒂夫對您預期的 10 億美元新現金收益的評論。您已經在百老匯 770 號償還了 7 億美元的債務，同時在百老匯 1535 號釋放了 4,000 萬美元。除了這些新部署之外，我想知道您預計新部署會有多少？

Well, the math of what you just said, the $700 million is going to pay off debt. There's a little more a couple of hundred million dollars more than that coming in on that building. It's $200 million-odd coming in from refinancing 1535. And there will be enough in short-term dispositions to round it up to $1 billion.

嗯，根據你剛才說的計算，這 7 億美元將用於償還債務。這棟建築的收入比這還要多幾億美元。這是從 1535 再融資中獲得的 2 億多美元。而短期處置的資金足以使這一數字達到 10 億美元。

And will those be focused on retail or noncore office? Or any color you could provide on what (inaudible)

這些將集中在零售還是非核心辦公領域？或者您可以提供任何顏色（聽不清楚）

I'm not going to get specific about that, John.

我不會具體談論這一點，約翰。

Jeff Spector, Bank of America.

美國銀行的傑夫·斯佩克特（Jeff Spector）。

Thank you and congratulations on a great 2024. Can you tie Steve's comments on the slide --

謝謝您，並祝賀您度過美好的 2024 年。你能把史蒂夫的評論附在幻燈片上嗎--

I can't let that go by without saying thank you.

我不能不說謝謝就讓這一切過去。

Okay. Absolutely. If you could please tie, Steve, your opening comments on the expectation for a rent spike to Michael's comment on growth in '27. I think we all understand '25. Can you tie in '26 at all to any of those comments, please?

好的。絕對地。史蒂夫，如果你能將你對租金上漲預期的開場評論與邁克爾對 27 年增長的評論聯繫起來的話。我想我們都理解‘25’。您能將 '26 與這些評論聯繫起來嗎？

God, I don't know. We've been through these kinds of cycles four or five times. What I said, which I thought I was pretty clear was that there's lots of space in New York, but we compete in a much smaller subset of the better space, which is somewhat below 200 million square feet. So that's the first point.

天啊，我不知道。我們已經經歷過四、五次這樣的循環。我認為我已經說得很清楚了，紐約有很多空間，但我們在更好的空間中競爭的只是很小的一部分，這個空間略低於 2 億平方英尺。這是第一點。

The second point is that the current availability in that subset of space is 10% and going down very quickly because there's a shortage of space. We haven't had a recession and all of our clients are expanding and aggressively expanding in New York. The businesses are good. The stock market is good. So business is healthy and robust, and demand for space in New York is actually pretty terrific.

第二點是，該空間子集的當前可用性為 10%，並且由於空間短缺而正在迅速下降。我們沒有經歷過經濟衰退，我們所有的客戶都在紐約擴張，而且是積極擴張。生意很好。股市很好。因此，業務是健康而強勁的，紐約對空間的需求實際上相當大。

So with availability limited and shrinking and no new supply, that's critical, no new supply coming on the market for lots of the construction costs are historically high interest rates have not fallen -- have not fallen actually. Long-term rates have not fallen at all. And so the ability to create new supply is very, very limited, and I use the word frozen.

因此，由於供應有限且不斷減少，而且沒有新的供應，這至關重要，市場上沒有新的供應，許多建築成本處於歷史高位，利率沒有下降 - 實際上沒有下降。長期利率根本沒有下降。因此，創造新供應的能力非常非常有限，我使用「凍結」這個詞。

Take all that together, that's the landlords market. We expect rents to go up significantly next year. And there I use the word spike.

把所有這些放在一起，這就是房東市場。我們預計明年租金將大幅上漲。在這裡我使用了“spike”這個詞。

Now with respect to Michael's comments about 2026, you want to --

現在關於邁克爾對 2026 年的評論，你想--

Yeah. What I would say is that as we look at our portfolio, right, we've got a number of drivers. We have filling up the empties. We have a -- and so we know that significant part of that is going to come from PENN 2 and to some extent, PENN 1. We have the leases roll over. We're now on the other side of that as we move into a landlords market where we have positive mark-to-market. So it takes some time for that to flow through. '26 will be an improvement, but we think very significant when it comes in 2027.

是的。我想說的是，當我們審視我們的投資組合時，我們發現了許多驅動因素。我們已經把空箱填滿了。我們有——所以我們知道其中很大一部分將來自 PENN 2 以及某種程度上來自 PENN 1。我們的租約已經展期。現在我們處於另一個境界，即進入房東市場，擁有正的市價比。所以這需要一些時間才能完成。 '26 將是一個進步，但我們認為到 2027 年時將會非常重要。

I'll give you something else to think about, okay? Now in PENN 1 and PENN 2, we are leasing now in the $100 range, maybe just a pinch higher. There's nothing that said -- but if you go to our neighbors, if you go to Manhattan West and you go to Hudson Yards, the market rents for those buildings, albeit they are newer buildings, especially their new buildings, is substantially monumentally higher than $100 a foot.

我給你一些別的東西去思考，好嗎？現在在 PENN 1 和 PENN 2，我們的租賃價格在 100 美元左右，可能略高一些。沒有什麼是說的——但是如果你去我們的鄰居，如果你去曼哈頓西區和哈德遜城市廣場，那些建築的市場租金，儘管它們是較新的建築，尤其是它們的新建築，但遠高於每平方英尺 100 美元。

As this market tightens and as the PENN district matures, it gets to be accepted as the single best location in the West Side, there's nothing that says that market rents in PENN 1 and PENN 2 can't go from $100 a foot to $125 a foot and then maybe even substantially higher.

隨著這個市場的收緊和賓夕法尼亞區（PENN）的成熟，它將被接受為西區的最佳位置，沒有什麼能阻止賓州 1 區和賓州 2 區的市場租金從每平方英尺 100 美元漲到 125 美元，甚至可能大幅上漲。

That kind of appreciation in income will cause bad news to increase monumentally. So for example, help me on this Tom, $25 a foot times 5 million feet is $125 million a year, okay? $125 million a year is worth $1.5 billion to $2 billion of value [creation] without any capital expense. So we're unbelievably enthusiastic about the market, about the tightening of the market and about the inventory that we own.

收入的這種增值將導致壞消息大幅增加。舉個例子，湯姆，幫我一下，每英尺 25 美元乘以 500 萬英尺就是每年 1.25 億美元，好嗎？每年 1.25 億美元可創造 15 億至 20 億美元的價值，且無需任何資本支出。因此，我們對市場、對市場的緊縮以及對我們擁有的庫存感到難以置信的熱情。

Very helpful. And my follow-up question is on the comment that you're working with a large anchor not looking for specifics, of course, on who. But can you just talk about the demand for anchor space? Is it a particular industry, technology, financials? Is it more broad-based? And I don't know if you could tie that to the Hotel Penn site.

非常有幫助。我的後續問題是，關於你正在與一個大型主持人合作的評論，當然，你並不想了解具體是誰。但是你能談談對錨空間的需求嗎？它是特定的產業、科技還是金融？它是否更加廣泛？我不知道您是否可以將其與 Hotel Penn 網站聯繫起來。

Hi, Jeff. It's Glen. Generally speaking, the big demand drivers are financial legal and tech. That's what we're seeing, not just in PENN but across the entire portfolio.

你好，傑夫。是格倫。一般而言，最大的需求驅動因素是金融、法律和科技。這就是我們所看到的，不僅僅是在賓州大學，而是在整個投資組合中。

Dylan Burzinski, Green Street.

迪倫·布爾津斯基 (Dylan Burzinski)，綠街。

Steve, just wanted to go back to your comments on you guys not -- are you -- in your guys' opinion, the public market not seeing the value in Alexander's in your comments about doing some bit about it. Can you kind of talk about sort of what you mean by that, anything we could expect?

史蒂夫，我只是想回到你對你們的評論上，你們認為公開市場沒有看到亞歷山大的價值，你們在評論中提到要對此採取一些行動。您能否談談您這樣說的意思以及我們可以期待什麼？

Well, thanks. If you take the asset of Alexander's and you do a sum of the parts analysis, that number by any construct has to be very substantially higher than the trading price of the stock. So it's a very simple concept. And it's based upon NAV. And if you just -- if you calculate the value of the asset piece by piece, it greatly exceeds the stock price.

好吧，謝謝。如果您拿亞歷山大的資產來做各部分分析的總和，那麼無論怎樣構造，這個數字都必須大大高於股票的交易價格。這是一個非常簡單的概念。它是基於 NAV 的。如果你只是——如果你逐項計算資產的價值，它遠遠超過了股票價格。

Now think about it for a second. So Rego 1, which I guess you might say is a failed shopping center. We had IKEA moved out, so it's shrinking down. So we end up with a 66-year-old building. The capital cost of re-tenanting that building is huge, and obviously, not economic. So what we did very simply is we took the two remaining actually Burlington and Marshalls. Two great tenants. Marshall has been there for 30 years, 40 years. Very long period of time.

現在想一想。所以我想你可能會說 Rego 1 是一個失敗的購物中心。宜家已搬走，因此規模正在縮小。所以我們最後得到了一棟有66年歷史的建築。重新出租該建築的資本成本巨大，而且顯然不經濟。因此，我們所做的很簡單，就是選擇剩下的兩個，即伯靈頓和馬歇爾。兩位很棒的房客。馬歇爾已經在那裡待了30年、40年了。很長一段時間。

Anyway, so we move them into -- or we're in the process of -- we have signed documents by the way. We are in the process of moving them into Rego 2 which will fill up Rego 2, which is a relatively new shopping center we built it the better part of 10 years ago. So that makes Rego 2 a success.

不管怎樣，我們將它們轉移到——或者我們正在進行中——順便說一下，我們已經簽署了文件。我們正在將它們搬進 Rego 2，這將填滿 Rego 2，這是一個相對較新的購物中心，是我們 10 年前建造的。這使得 Rego 2 獲得了成功。

And it empties out, Rego 1, which is a grand 5-acre piece of land, which will be either sold or developed. So that creates value. Now it doesn't have income today. So somebody who's looking at Alexander's from the income only approach is going to be substantially incorrect as to what the values are, but the piece of land is in the middle of Queens at the intersection of Main, Main, Main, and we think is extraordinarily valuable. So we'll see.

然後它就空了出來，Rego 1 是一塊面積達 5 英畝的土地，將被出售或開發。這就創造了價值。現在它今天沒有收入。因此，如果某人只從收入的角度看待亞歷山大地產，那麼其價值的判斷將大錯特錯，但是這塊土地位於皇后區中部，Main、Main、Main 大街的交匯處，我們認為它極其有價值。我們拭目以待。

Appreciate those comments. And then I guess just one more broader strategic question. In several years ago, you guys slowed the idea of doing a tracking stock and ultimately shelved did until things started to recover in the New York office market. Now that things are seemingly recovering quite significantly, I mean, is that something that's back on the table? Can you kind of talk us through or that sort of fits in the grand strategic set of things?

感謝這些評論。然後我想還有一個更廣泛的策略問題。幾年前，你們放棄了進行追蹤庫存的想法並最終將其擱置，直到紐約辦公大樓市場開始復甦。現在情況似乎明顯好轉，我的意思是，這是否又可以重新提上日程了？您能否向我們詳細講解一下這是否符合宏觀策略要求？

The easy answer to that is no. But I think about tracking stock at least every day. I think it continues to be a very, very, very good idea. I can honestly tell you, I can't get any support from the idea from any of you guys and even from my guys inside. But I continue to think about it every day. You never know it may come up as being a useful tool sometime in the future. But the short-term answer is no. I do think it's -- I do love the idea.

簡單的答案是「不」。但我至少每天都會考慮追蹤庫存。我認為這仍然是一個非常非常非常好的想法。我可以誠實地告訴你們，這個想法無法得到你們任何人的支持，甚至無法得到我內部人員的支持。但我每天都會思考這個問題。你永遠不知道它在未來某個時候會不會成為一個有用的工具。但短期內的答案是否定的。我確實認為——我確實喜歡這個想法。

Floris Van Dikjum.

範迪克朱姆 (Floris Van Dikjum)。

I was just curious, your commentary on rents, obviously, at the PENN Plaza district being significantly higher than what you probably originally underwrote. I recall you talking about $150 million, or we -- I guess we've estimated about $150 million of NOI growth at your three PENN Plaza district assets, PENN 1, PENN 2, and Farley. As you think now on the progression of market rents, has your NOI growth expectation increased? And I mean fully stabilized, this thing could generate more than $300 million of NOI.

我只是很好奇，你對賓州廣場區租金的評論顯然比你最初承保的要高得多。我記得您談過 1.5 億美元，或者我們 — — 我想我們估計您的三個 PENN Plaza 區資產 PENN 1、PENN 2 和 Farley 的 NOI 增長約為 1.5 億美元。您現在考慮市場租金的上漲，您的淨營運收入成長預期是否有所增加？我的意思是，如果完全穩定下來，這個東西可以產生超過 3 億美元的淨利潤。

The answer to that is that, obviously, with the rents going up, that prediction will go up, but it will go up only marginally. And I'm told by my finance people who are smarter than I am, that it has to take into account that there will be capitalized interest rolling off. That will roll off. So I mean, it's a complicated calculation that my guys can help you is offline.

答案是，顯然，隨著租金上漲，這個預測也會上升，但只會稍微上升。比我聰明的財務人員告訴我，必須考慮到資本化利息的滾動。那將會滾落。所以我的意思是，這是一個複雜的計算，我的人可以離線幫助你。

But basically, what I'm looking for is that PENN 2 leases up. And as PENN 1 completes its fill up, and then there is some retail space in the Farley building. As all that happens, the income from that cluster of buildings will go up the better part of $150 million. And that's incrementally going up. That doesn't count. So it will be more than that to pick it all together. So I mean, I read your piece that you put out, I think, last weekend, and I think it is absolutely directionally correct.

但基本上，我所尋找的是 PENN 2 的租賃情況。隨著賓州 1 號線的填滿，Farley 大樓裡將出現一些零售空間。隨著這一切的發生，這片建築群的收入將增加近 1.5 億美元。而這一數字還在逐步上升。那不算數。因此，把所有一切收集起來是遠遠不夠的。所以我的意思是，我讀了你上週末發表的文章，我認為它在方向上絕對正確。

So Steve --

所以史蒂夫--

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

As we keep developing the neighborhood, and for example, as I said in the prepared remarks, the PENN15 site, the old Hotel Pennsylvania site is next up. It's already raised and down to the ground as we build a world-class office building, which I've said the building is frozen, but we're going to attack that as if the land cost in a PENN15 is sunk. So if we look at it as having zero land cost for the moment, we simply can get the new building off the ground.

隨著我們繼續開發社區，例如，正如我在準備好的演講中所說，PENN15 站點，舊的賓夕法尼亞酒店站點就是下一個。當我們建造一座世界級的辦公大樓時，它已經被抬高並降到地面了，我說過這棟建築是凍結的，但我們會像 PENN15 的土地成本沉沒一樣來攻擊它。因此，如果我們將目前的土地成本視為零，那麼我們就可以簡單地開始建造新建築。

So anyway, if we -- as you look at this as a neighborhood, as we build on PENN15, a world-class office building, that will inure to increase the market value of the across-the-streets PENN 1 and PENN 2 by at least $25 or $50 a foot. So what we think as we continue to work on our neighborhood, the value creation will be quite substantial, and I might even say, enormous.

所以無論如何，如果我們——當你把這裡看作一個社區時，當我們在 PENN15 上建造一座世界一流的辦公大樓時，這將確保街對面的 PENN 1 和 PENN 2 的市場價值每英尺至少增加 25 美元或 50 美元。因此，我們認為，隨著我們繼續努力改善社區環境，創造的價值將相當可觀，我甚至可以說是巨大的。

Yeah, if you start adding those pieces. The follow-up question, I guess, is -- on the acquisitions front, I know that it's hard to acquire assets. Maybe if you could talk a little bit about the environment and the types of transactions you're looking at and where you think you're going to source or where you're more likely to source transactions? And would you consider allocating capital to outside of Manhattan to maybe markets like San Francisco or Chicago that are further behind in the recovery phase?

是的，如果你開始加入這些片段。我想，後續的問題是──在收購方面，我知道收購資產很困難。也許您可以稍微談談環境和您正在關注的交易類型，以及您認為您將從哪裡獲取交易或您更有可能從哪裡獲取交易？您會考慮將資金配置到曼哈頓以外的市場，例如舊金山或芝加哥等復甦階段較為落後的市場？

That question is right up Michael's alley.

這個問題正合邁可的心意。

Good morning, Floris. So I think in terms of acquisitions, you're accurate in the sense of it's been more challenging in New York, and as the cycle is turning here. Sellers are getting a little more optimistic. That being said, there's still a lot of maturities to work through, and I think that's going to present opportunities in the next year or two.

早上好，弗洛里斯。因此，我認為，就收購而言，您說得沒錯，紐約的收購更具挑戰性，這裡的周期正在轉變。賣家變得更加樂觀了。話雖如此，仍有許多成熟問題需要解決，我認為這將在未來一兩年內帶來機會。

So -- but our target is -- it has to be the right asset to fit into our portfolio, from a quality perspective. So I think there will be some, but it's going to be fewer rather than more San Francisco, we are constructive on. We believe in the market. I think we've been consistent on that. I think the signs are positive there, new leadership. Citi is certainly turning a corner.

所以 — — 但我們的目標是 — — 從品質角度來看，它必須是適合我們投資組合的正確資產。所以我認為會有一些，但數量會比較少，而不是比較多，我們對舊金山的情況持建設性態度。我們相信市場。我想我們對此一直保持一致。我認為那裡的跡像是積極的，有新的領導。花旗銀行確實正在扭轉局面。

So the answer is yes, we are open mine regarding San Francisco, Chicago. I think we're content with what we have. I don't think you'll see us add anything there. The market has many more challenges, and it's going to take some time for the other.

所以答案是肯定的，我們對舊金山和芝加哥持開放態度。我想我們對我們所擁有的感到滿意。我認為你不會看到我們在那裡添加任何東西。市場也面臨更多的挑戰，其他的挑戰還需要一些時間才能解決。

So we're not focused on that either. And I don't think we'll look beyond that.

所以我們也沒有關注這個。我認為我們不會再考慮這些了。

Michael Griffin, Citi.

花旗銀行的麥可‧格里芬 (Michael Griffin)。

I appreciate all the color around the leasing pipeline and demand. I'm curious, maybe Steve or Glen, could you give us some insights into whether or not tenants are coming to you earlier to try to renew space just given that limited availability, and you've talked about landlord pricing power. Have you started to see concessions drop off at all as a result of this demand you've seen?

我很欣賞有關租賃管道和需求的所有資訊。我很好奇，也許史蒂夫或格倫，你能否向我們提供一些見解，在可用空間有限的情況下，租戶是否會提前來找你嘗試續租空間，並且你談到了房東的定價權。您是否已開始看到由於這種需求而導致的優惠減少？

Hi, it's Glen. So in terms of the demand, we're seeing it from every angle, multiple expansions, multiple renewal discussions for deals that are years out from expiring and the demand -- the immediate demand for space from tenants who are either new to the market or want to move immediately is more robust than I've seen in many years.

你好，我是格倫。因此就需求而言，我們從各個角度看到了這一點，多次擴張，多次續約討論，這些交易距離到期還有幾年的時間，而且需求——來自新進入市場或想立即搬遷的租戶對空間的直接需求比我多年來所看到的更為強勁。

As it relates to concessions, I think they're neutralized. They've not come down generally yet, but rents have gone up. And that effectively, things are better. And as this market, more and more become the landlords market, the concessions will come down.

至於讓步，我認為它們已經被抵消了。整體來說價格還沒下降，但是租金已經漲了。事實上，情況確實變得更好了。而且隨著這個市場越來越成為房東市場，優惠也會跟著減少。

If I would add on to what Glen said. I think there's a couple of dynamics there, right? First, let me talk about these expansions. We're going through our pipeline in the last few days. And there's a handful of tenants that we did leases with very recently, they've already come back for more space.

我想補充一下格倫所說的話。我認為那裡有幾個動態，對嗎？首先，我來談談這些擴充。過去幾天我們正在進行管道檢查。最近，我們與一些租戶簽訂了租賃協議，現在他們已經回來尋求更多的空間。

And I think that's reflective of a couple of dynamics that have occurred. One is, I think there was a level of conservatism on behalf of tenants as they lease space coming out of COVID because they didn't know exactly how they use or how much they would need, right? And they're now awfully backed, and they recognize that they need more as a result that.

我認為這反映了已經發生的一些動態。一方面，我認為租戶在疫情結束後租賃空間時存在一定程度的保守主義，因為他們不知道自己到底如何使用，也不知道需要多少空間，對嗎？現在他們得到了極大的支持，並且他們認識到因此他們需要更多的支持。

Two, as both Steve and Glen said, business is booming, right? Law firms are booming, financial services, being techs booming, et cetera. So all these businesses are growing. So when you take both of those dynamics, you have a very robust market overlaid onto a very tightening level of supply of where these tenants want to be. So I think that's why Steve said what you said in terms of the expectation for rental growth over the next several years.

二，正如史蒂夫和格倫所說，生意興隆，對嗎？律師事務所蓬勃發展，金融服務、科技業也蓬勃發展，等等。因此所有這些業務都在成長。因此，當你考慮到這兩種動態時，你會發現市場非常強勁，但租戶想要的房屋供應非常緊張。所以我認為這就是史蒂夫對未來幾年租金成長預期所說的內容。

I appreciate the additional commentary there. And then just maybe following back up on your comments and prepared remarks around the financing markets and capital availability. Obviously, we've seen more transactions come to market as of recent, the CMBS market seems more open.

我很欣賞那裡的補充評論。然後也許只是跟進您關於融資市場和資本可用性的評論和準備好的評論。顯然，我們看到最近有更多的交易進入市場，CMBS 市場似乎更加開放。

For the mortgages that you guys have coming due this year, whether it's an 1011, 888 those properties are very well leased. Do you have a sense or maybe give us some insight on where you'd expect the refinancing rate to be relative to the current interest rate? And any other commentary on sort of the debt capital markets would be helpful.

對於你們今年到期的抵押貸款，無論是1011還是888，這些房產的租賃情況都非常好。您是否知道或可以給我們一些見解，您預計再融資利率相對於當前利率會處於什麼水平？有關債務資本市場的任何其他評論都會有所幫助。

Look, I think if you think about where we are today versus where we were, let's say, a year ago, I think it's night and day. and we really opened up the market on the office side with the Bloomberg financing. And since then, certainly with respect to New York State, there's been a floodgate of high-quality office had been financed.

看，我想如果你想想我們今天所處的位置與我們當時的位置，比如說，一年前，我想那簡直就是天壤之別。我們透過彭博融資真正打開了辦公室方面的市場。自那時起，當然就紐約州而言，已經有大量高品質辦公大樓獲得了資金支持。

So you think about the transactions that have gotten done, many of them in excess of $1 billion, and in a couple of cases, multibillion. So I think that is evidence of the -- just the demand from fixed income investors for high-quality New York City office, I think it's very encouraging. And so obviously, our portfolio plays in that.

想想已經完成的交易，其中許多交易的金額超過 10 億美元，在某些案例中，甚至達到數十億美元。所以我認為這證明了固定收益投資者對高品質紐約市辦公室的需求，我認為這非常令人鼓舞。顯然，我們的投資組合在其中發揮了作用。

So as we look out in terms of the financings that are going to -- that roll this year, like we're coming off some low rates in a couple of cases, particularly on fixed -- on a couple of fixed rate deals, I think we'll see upticks in rates there. At the same time, something like a Union Square, the demand for high-quality retail is very strong and then they will be lower.

因此，當我們展望今年的融資情況時，我們會發現在某些情況下我們擺脫了一些低利率，特別是一些固定利率交易，我認為我們會看到利率上升。同時，像聯合廣場這樣的地方，對高品質零售的需求非常強烈，而價格則會降低。

So net debt, I think it's probably a little higher, but we're also delevering with some pay downs of the $770 million, et cetera. So I think from Vornado's perspective, I think we obviously took some hits the last couple of years with interest expense going up pretty significantly. I think by and large, we're done with that in total. Could it be a little bit higher this year? Maybe. Could it be a little bit lower? Maybe. I think we're sort of par year over year. And I think, generally, the worst is sort of over for us.

因此，我認為淨債務可能略高一些，但我們也在透過償還 7.7 億美元等債務來去槓桿。因此，我認為從 Vornado 的角度來看，我們在過去幾年顯然受到了一些打擊，利息支出大幅上升。我認為從大體上來說，我們已經完成了所有工作。今年還能再高一點嗎？或許。能不能低一點啊？或許。我認為我們的業績同比去年持平。我認為，總體而言，我們最糟糕的時期已經過去了。

Vikram Malhotra, Mizuho.

瑞穗的維克拉姆·馬洛特拉 (Vikram Malhotra)。

Steve, I guess you've done a great job on the PENN District on various assets. You talked about the next evolution or the next jump in your stabilized NOI. I'm wondering, from an actual development or an asset standpoint, what's next in PENN? How would you sequence the various other parcels or redevelopment opportunities you have?

史蒂夫，我想你在賓州區各項資產都做得非常出色。您談到了穩定的 NOI 的下一次演變或下一次飛躍。我想知道，從實際發展或資產的角度來看，PENN 的下一步是什麼？您將如何對所擁有的其他各個地塊或再開發機會進行排序？

Thanks for the question, Vik. We're studying that now. We believe that we should independent would have one or two buildings under construction and rolling forward for the next 10 years, but we're not ready to announce anything yet.

謝謝你的提問，維克。我們正在研究這個問題。我們相信，我們應該獨立建造一兩座建築，並在未來十年內繼續前進，但我們還沒有準備好宣布任何消息。

Obviously, the PENN15 site is sitting there probably, I believe, the best site in Manhattan x Park Avenue. So that obviously is the next site. We are considering all options for that site. There will clearly be an office building on the front of that site, but we're also considering apartments as well.

顯然，我認為 PENN15 地點可能是曼哈頓 x 公園大道上最好的地點。所以這顯然是下一個站點。我們正在考慮該網站的所有選項。該地塊前面顯然會建造一棟辦公大樓，但我們也在考慮建造公寓。

Got it. And then just maybe to follow up. You talked about the office pipeline. I'm wondering if you can give a little bit more color on sort of how street retail is evolving on Fifth and Madison. Any color on tenants in the market there? And what pricing may be doing and how that translates into your leasing costs?

知道了。然後也許會跟進。您談到了辦公室管道。我想知道您是否可以更詳細地介紹第五大道和麥迪遜大街上的街頭零售是如何發展的。那裡的市場租戶有什麼狀況嗎？定價可能如何以及這會如何影響您的租賃成本？

Yeah, Vikram. So on the retail pipeline, I'd say just on the market in general. The market continues to strengthen vacancy rates continued to decline and rents are certainly for the best spaces. I think returning to close to peak levels.

是的，維克拉姆。因此，就零售通路而言，我會說總體上只是就市場而言。市場持續走強，空置率持續下降，最佳空間的租金肯定會上漲。我認為會回到接近峰值水平。

So we signed a significant lease in Times Square last year. There's activity in that submarket. Again, we own the two best blocks, and we have some active dialogue going at some very strong rents, not too far off the peak there. Fifth Avenue, same dynamic in terms of tenants looking for space, I think we've seen certainly, since COVID, the most activity of retailers cruising around, looking for space. And so I think that pickup. And again, for the right spaces, I think tenants recognize they're going to have to pay rents that aren't too far off the peak there, if not the peak.

因此我們去年在時代廣場簽署了一份重要的租約。那個子市場很活躍。再說一次，我們擁有兩個最好的地塊，而且我們以非常高的租金進行了一些積極的對話，距離那裡的頂峰並不太遠。第五大道，就租戶尋找空間而言，情況也是如此。我認為，自疫情以來，我們確實看到，零售商在四處尋找空間的活動最為活躍。所以我認為那輛皮卡。再說一次，對於合適的空間，我認為租戶認識到他們必須支付的租金不會離高峰太遠，如果不是高峰的話。

So the bottom line is and what's driving all this is that the sales figures that the retailers are doing. And the recognition that New York remains the global city in the US, maybe number one in the world, and they have to have locations here.

所以，最重要的是，推動這一切的是零售商的銷售數據。而且他們認識到紐約仍然是美國的國際城市，甚至是世界第一，所以他們必須在這裡開設門市。

So we're close to lease with some sort of new-to-market tenants as well as some tenants that are already here. We continue to have good activity throughout the PENN District, and we're working on some leases there as well. So we're pretty constructive on the retail market as well. We own great assets and those tend to be where the retailers are most focused.

因此，我們即將與一些新進入市場的租戶以及一些已經在這裡的租戶簽訂租賃協議。我們在整個賓州區繼續保持良好的活動，我們也在那裡處理一些租賃事宜。因此，我們對零售市場也非常看好。我們擁有優質的資產，這些資產往往是零售商最重視的。

I'll give you an anecdotal story. So we have an important asset on Fifth Avenue. Actually, we have a lot of them. But one particular important asset on Fifth Avenue, we had a major retailer come in knowing that the incumbent in that space had an expiry in three years and no renewal option. Trying to actually say, I would like to signed for that space now, and I'll wait for that tenant's lease to expire. So that's things that happen only for extraordinary properties and tight markets. So that was kind of fun.

我跟你講一個軼事。因此我們在第五大道擁有重要的資產。事實上，我們有很多。但第五大道上有一項特別重要的資產，我們有一家大型零售商進駐，並且知道該空間的現任者將在三年內到期，並且沒有續約選擇。實際上我想說的是，我現在想簽署該空間，並等待該租戶的租約到期。所以這種事情只會發生在特殊的房產和緊張的市場。這真是太有趣了。

The other thing that I'll say is on Fifth Avenue, tenants would prefer to buy rather than rent, and so the buy prices are higher than would be reflected by the market risk. So the arbitrage there is that it's more economic to sell some of these assets than to rent some of these assets. And we're open for business.

我要說的另一件事是，在第五大道，租戶更願意購買而不是租賃，因此購買價格高於市場風險所反映的價格。因此，套利在於出售部分資產比租賃部分資產更經濟。我們已開始營業。

Michael Lewis, Truist Securities.

Truist Securities 的 Michael Lewis。

So Steve, you often emphasized you run this as a cash business, a focus on cash, which we agree with. The [FAD] of $1.75 per share in 2024 was the lowest in at least the last 25 years, probably longer. And I realize leasing up a lot of space cost money. But maybe help us understand the health of the New York office business in the context of REITs like yourself making less cash money than ever before. And this 25-year trend of that kind of consistently going down. And are we at an inflection and you expect that to kind of rapidly increase? And do we get back to kind of pre-COVID cash flow levels?

史蒂夫，你經常強調你以現金業務的方式經營，專注於現金，我們同意這一點。2024 年的 [FAD] 為每股 1.75 美元，是至少過去 25 年甚至更長時間內的最低水準。我知道租賃很多空間要花錢。但也許可以幫助我們了解紐約辦公大樓業務的健康狀況，在像您這樣的房地產投資信託基金 (REIT) 賺取的現金比以往任何時候都少的背景下。這種 25 年來一直呈現下降趨勢。我們是否正處於一個轉折點，您預計這種趨勢會快速成長？我們的現金流能恢復到疫情之前的水準嗎？

Complicated question. I'm familiar with the trend. I'm familiar with the capital intensity of our business. I'm familiar with the fact that we're in the multi-tenant, we and all of our colleagues in the industry are and the multi-tenant business where the spaces turn over. I'm familiar with the cost of turning over those spaces. All of which creates the trend that you mentioned.

複雜的問題。我熟悉這個趨勢。我熟悉我們業務的資本密集度。我熟悉這樣一個事實：我們處於多租戶領域，我們以及我們行業中的所有同事都處於多租戶業務中，空間週轉頻繁。我熟悉轉讓這些空間的成本。所有這些都形成了您提到的趨勢。

So clearly, and Glen alluded to this, the [PI] and the tenant inducements to turn over a floor in a building is very sticky, and we're struggling to try to get them to go down, they will only go down in a very tight market. So that's in our future, not in our past.

很明顯，格倫也提到了這一點，[PI] 和租戶對建築物樓層的轉讓誘惑非常強烈，我們正在努力讓他們降低價格，但他們只會在非常緊張的市場中降低價格。所以這是我們的未來，而不是我們的過去。

On the other hand, if you look at the rents, rents have gone up already to sort of alleviate that problem. So I'm expecting that the cash -- the actual cash flow or AFFO or whatever you want to turn it. We are at the bottom of that cycle, and that's going to go up in a market which I think is going to get much tighter.

另一方面，如果你看看租金，租金已經上漲了，以緩解這個問題。所以我預計現金——實際現金流或 AFFO 或無論你想要轉換什麼。我們正處於這一週期的底部，而且我認為市場將會上漲，並且會變得更加緊縮。

Now, that is something that I'm predicting for New York. I believe New York is unique in the nation. Other cities as great as they might be around the country, I don't believe are going to benefit from that trend.

現在，這就是我對紐約的預測。我相信紐約在全國是獨一無二的。我認為，儘管全國其他城市也很棒，但它們不會從這個趨勢中受益。

Okay. Great. And then my second question, I just wanted to ask about the New York office in-place rent versus market rent. So the in-place rent looks like it's right around $90 a square foot. Where do you think market rent for the operating portfolio are compared to that?

好的。偉大的。我的第二個問題是，我只想問一下紐約辦公室的現有租金與市場租金的情況。因此，目前的租金看起來大約是每平方英尺 90 美元。您認為營運組合的市場租金與此相比如何？

Hi, it's Glen. We say this often, quarter to quarter, it's going to ebb and flow flat, positive, et cetera. We feel confident that our mark-to-market will be positive. I'm not going to predict how much that means. But we like our spot in terms of our rolling expirations in the next few years. We like where we're now pegging rents. As we mentioned, we've increased rents generally across the whole portfolio. So we feel good about that metric over the next two to three years.

你好，我是格倫。我們經常這樣說，每個季度，它都會有起有落，有平穩，有積極，等等。我們相信我們的市價將為正值。我無法預測這意味著什麼。但就未來幾年的滾動到期情況而言，我們喜歡我們的位置。我們喜歡現在的租金掛鉤政策。正如我們所提到的，我們普遍提高了整個投資組合的租金。因此，我們對未來兩到三年的這項指標感到滿意。

I'm not bashful and I'll predict. So let's just go to PENN for a minute because that's easy. So I believe that we signed a wonderful lease for 730,000 square feet in the Farley building in the middle and the depth of COVID, I believe when that lease comes for renewal only in out years from now, the markets for that renewal will be very substantially higher than the in-place with.

我不害羞而且我會預測。因此，我們就先去賓州大學 (PENN) 一會兒，因為那很容易。因此，我相信，我們在 COVID 疫情中期和最嚴重時期簽署了一份非常好的 Farley 大樓 730,000 平方英尺的租約，我相信，當這份租約在幾年後續簽時，續約的市場將比現有的市場高出很多。

I've already said that I believe PENN 1 and PENN 2, which we are very happy to get $100 or a pinch more today that in the short-term future, three, four, five years from now, the market rents for those buildings will be very, very substantially higher. So that's what I think. By the way, we're bidding on that.

我已經說過，我相信 PENN 1 和 PENN 2 的租金會非常非常高，我們很高興今天能得到 100 美元甚至更多的錢。在短期內，也就是三、四、五年後，這些建築的市場租金將會大幅上漲。這就是我的想法。順便說一句，我們正在競標這個。

Alexander Goldfarb, Piper Sandler.

亞歷山大·戈德法布，派珀·桑德勒。

And first, congrats on the improved yields at PENN and the positive reception you guys have had from the market. So that's quite a compliment from the market for you guys there. Two questions, first --

首先，恭喜賓州大學殖利率提高以及市場給予你們的正面評價。所以這對你們來說，是來自市場的極大讚美。首先有兩個問題--

Alex, thank you, my friend.

亞歷克斯，謝謝你，我的朋友。

No, it's true. I mean you spend time walking us through and it's evident at your ability to rethink in the campus environment. So it's good to see that the rents are moving the way you had hoped.

不，這是真的。我的意思是您花時間帶領我們走過這段旅程，這充分體現了您在校園環境中重新思考的能力。所以很高興看到租金按照你所希望的方式變動。

My two questions are first on Alexander's, and I appreciate your comments. What would be -- what would -- I mean, right now, given how much of the original assets have been sold off, and I would think you could get a good price for the apartment tower in Rego 2.

我首先要問兩個問題關於亞歷山大的問題，我很感謝您的評論。我的意思是，現在，考慮到原有資產有多少已被出售，我認為 Rego 2 的公寓大樓可以賣出一個好價錢。

Why not just blend in Alexander's into Vornado, you'd eliminate the G&A instead of paying a dividend, that cash flow would accrue to Vornado. You have 731, which certainly fits in your portfolio. Why not just incorporate Alexander's into Vornado. What would prevent that?

為什麼不把 Alexander's 融入 Vornado 呢？這樣您就可以消除 G&A 費用，而不是支付股息，這些現金流將歸 Vornado 所有。您有 731，這肯定適合您的投資組合。為什麼不把 Alexander's 併入 Vornado 呢？什麼可以阻止這種情況發生？

Well, nothing is not tenacious. That idea has been floated for 20-odd years, and I have said we're not going to do that for 20-odd years. And actually, I probably will continue to say it now, the Alexander's -- the pricing of it, the melting of -- it's not something that's on the front of my mind today.

嗯，沒有什麼是不堅韌的。這個想法已經提出了20多年，我已經說過，我們不會再在20年內繼續這樣做。實際上，我現在可能會繼續說，亞歷山大的定價、融化情況——這不是我今天首先考慮的事情。

Okay. I mean it just it has cash needs, and it's certainly -- as you wound it down, would seem to fit more and more, but I guess that's a conversation for off-line.

好的。我的意思是它只是有現金需求，當然——當你將它關閉時，似乎會越來越合適，但我想這是一個線下的對話。

Alex, let me give you a fantasy. Okay.

亞歷克斯，讓我給你一個幻想。好的。

I love that.

我喜歡這個。

Okay. I'm trying to please you. If we merged Alexander into Vornado, I have no idea how we would price it and how we could get both sites to be happy. Very difficult to do, okay? Operatively, if we left out as we are going to do, that's what I'm saying, as a freestanding independent public entity.

好的。我正在盡力取悅你。如果我們將 Alexander 合併到 Vornado，我不知道該如何定價，也不知道該如何讓兩個網站都滿意。很難做到，好嗎？從操作上來說，如果我們像我們要做的那樣，作為一個獨立的公共實體，這就是我所說的。

And we narrowed it down to nothing but the Bloomberg office building, which shortly will have approximately $100 million of net income. And that was the only asset in that property, and it had very low debt or maybe no debt, what would that sell for as a -- what would that sell for in the stock market. And I submit to you that, that would sell for much, much higher than the current trading price of the stock. That's just the fantasy though.

最後我們將目標縮小到了彭博辦公大樓，該大樓不久將實現約 1 億美元的淨收入。這是該房產中唯一的資產，而且負債很低甚至可能沒有負債，那麼它在股票市場上能賣多少錢呢？我向您提交的是，該股票的售價將比當前交易價格高得多。但那隻是幻想。

Okay. That second question is, Michael, you walk --

好的。第二個問題是，邁克爾，你走路--

What I'm really saying is, from a value point of view, we think that we can make Alexander's value to be above what were might be willing to pay for it and then Alexander's shareholders will -- that's what we're pursuing.

我真正想說的是，從價值的角度來看，我們認為我們可以讓亞歷山大的價值高於我們願意支付的價格，然後亞歷山大的股東就會——這就是我們所追求的。

Okay. Michael, you appreciate the comments on '25 some perspective. But you guys have outlined some asset sales vacating at 350 Park and just the remnants of refinancing. In addition, you have the capitalized interest, I think, $51 million at PENN 2 that would burn off from that when -- as those leases take effect. So as we think about the next two years, how much FFO net is coming off of Vornado relative to FFO coming on from [10]?

好的。邁克爾，你很欣賞對‘25 某些觀點的評論。但你們已經概述了 350 Park 的一些資產出售和再融資的殘餘。此外，我認為 PENN 2 的資本化利息為 5,100 萬美元，當這些租約生效時，這些利息將會被消耗掉。因此，當我們考慮未來兩年時，Vornado 的 FFO 淨收入與來自[10]？

Yeah. I think that -- look, as we said a couple of things. One is in terms of capitalized interest, right? We've talked about that being lower this year versus last year given PENN 2 is going to roll off this year. And I think that's why consensus is down appropriately, and that's reflected here.

是的。我認為——看，正如我們所說的幾件事。一個是資本化利息，對嗎？我們已經討論過，由於 PENN 2 將於今年推出，因此今年的金額將低於去年。我認為這就是共識適當下降的原因，這裡有所體現。

So 350 when that comes off, we don't think that has much of an impact relative to the master lease we're getting today. There'll be no debt on the asset at that point, we'll get capitalized interest on that. So that's not going to really have an impact on the numbers.

因此，當 350 取消時，我們認為這不會對我們今天獲得的主租約產生太大影響。此時資產上將不再有債務，我們將獲得資本化的利息。所以這實際上不會對數字產生影響。

So like we've talked for the last year about the success we've had backfilling 770, 1290, 280, now leasing at PENN. That's going to start flowing through a little bit this year, more materially next year and dramatically in 2027. And so to model that out as you want, based on that comment, but I think that's our trajectory.

就像我們去年談論過的，我們在填補 770、1290、280 方面的成功，現在正在賓州大學租賃。這種趨勢將在今年開始顯現，明年將更為明顯，到 2027 年將急劇上升。因此，根據該評論，按照您想要的方式對其進行建模，但我認為這就是我們的軌跡。

Ronald Kamdem, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的羅納德‧坎登 (Ronald Kamdem)。

Just two quick ones for me. So one is on just on the same-store NOI for New York office ended down 3.3%. Just as you're thinking about the next two to three years, just any high-level thoughts on what that same-store number could look like in this sort of strong environment?

我只想問兩個問題。因此，紐約辦公室的同店淨營業利潤僅下降了 3.3%。就像您在思考未來兩到三年一樣，在如此強勁的環境下，您對於同店銷售額會達到什麼程度有何高層看法？

Ronald, I don't have those numbers in my fingertips, and I don't want to give you numbers that are too much of a guest and so on. So let us look at that and we'll try to give a little more visibility there.

羅納德，我手邊沒有這些數字，而且我不想給你太多客人的數字等等。因此，讓我們來看看這一點，並嘗試提供更多的可見性。

Going back to the -- I had the same sort of question on CapEx, maybe asking it a different way. When I think about sort of the $250 million of CapEx spend this year, which includes $72 million on sort of first-generation space. Any sort of thoughts about what '25, '26 could look like? Are we coming down from those numbers? Are we staying in place? Just any sort of thinking on CapEx as we're thinking about the model.

回到——我對資本支出有同樣的問題，也許可以用不同的方式詢問。當我想到今年的 2.5 億美元資本支出時，其中包括第一代空間的 7,200 萬美元。您對於 25、26 年的情況有什麼想法嗎？我們的數字會下降嗎？我們還留在原地嗎？當我們思考模型時，對資本支出 (CapEx) 的任何思考。

I mean I think the CapEx, we raised it a little bit because -- and it's the best guess every year, right, in terms of timing of when you make those payments, and it doesn't necessarily line up until we actually finalize the lease. But we know the leases that are in process. We have an expectation of what we're going to get done beyond that. And so I think it's reflective of the pretty strong leasing environment in addition to some base building capital.

我的意思是，我認為我們將資本支出提高了一點，因為——這是每年最好的猜測，就您付款的時間而言，而且在我們實際完成租約之前，它不一定一致。但我們知道租約正在辦理中。我們對除此之外還能完成什麼事情抱持著期待。因此，我認為這除了一些基礎建設資本外，還反映了相當強勁的租賃環境。

So last year, I think we're dead on our prediction. Most years, were, frankly, not because you're taking a high level of guest, so I think directionally, we're still in the same bucket, 250, 275 is frankly not that different, right? It's just a matter of what space you end up leasing in a particular year, how much capital is spent on the portfolio beyond that.

所以我認為，去年我們的預測完全正確。坦白說，大多數年份並不是因為你接待了高水平的客人，所以我認為從方向上看，我們仍然在同一個桶裡，250,275坦率地說沒什麼不同，對吧？這只是一個問題，即你在某一年最終租賃了什麼空間，以及除此之外在投資組合上花費了多少資本。

So I think that's a pretty good number directionally for this year, just given some of these big leases that are in the works on PENN and beyond. And as we get into next year, we'll see what's left. But I think that number will start coming down as the portfolio fills back up.

因此，我認為，考慮到賓州大學及其他地區正在進行的一些大型租約，這對於今年來說是一個相當不錯的方向性數字。進入明年，我們將看到還剩下什麼。但我認為，隨著投資組合重新充實，這個數字將開始下降。

Anthony Paolone, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Anthony Paolone。

Steve, you mentioned just viewing the cost basis around the Hotel Penn side at sunk at this point. Can you tell us just like what it costs to build something and go vertical right now then? And what kind of yield on that you would want?

史蒂夫，你提到此時只需查看賓州酒店周圍的成本基礎即可。您能告訴我們現在建造某個東西並垂直放置需要花費多少錢嗎？您希望獲得什麼樣的效益？

What do you think the building costs? By development -- my young development sauce as $1,900 a foot ex land for a Class A building. I won't have (inaudible)

您認為這棟建築的成本是多少？透過開發——我的年輕開發秘訣是，建造一棟 A 級建築，每平方英尺的土地價格為 1,900 美元。我不會（聽不清楚）

In the yield?

收益如何？

Well, if you put land in, so we get to a number which is -- but the $2,000 and -- I don't know, pick a number, $2,500 a foot, some number like that, I don't know. And you put a yield on it, what would you build for now and with a debt market of 6%. Let's say, you need to get 7% or 8% or something like that because equity is more valuable than debt. So what, 7% times $2,500.

好吧，如果你投入土地，那麼我們會得到一個數字——但是 2,000 美元——我不知道，選一個數字，每英尺 2,500 美元，類似的數字，我不知道。而你對其設定了收益率，那麼在債務市場達到 6% 的情況下，你現在會建立什麼呢？假設你需要獲得 7% 或 8% 或類似的金額，因為股權比債務更有價值。那又怎麼樣，7%乘以 2,500 美元。

$175 million.

1.75億美元。

Now that's a number that's net of taxes and operating costs. So that -- so the answer is that to build a new building today, the rents that you would need to get are in the high 100s. You're shaking your head, why are you shaking your head?

這是扣除稅金和營運成本後的數字。所以——答案是，今天建造一棟新建築，需要支付的租金要高達 100 美元。你搖頭，為什麼搖頭？

I agree, which is why it's -- you talk about being frozen, the math doesn't work.

我同意，這就是為什麼——你說被凍結，數學不起作用。

So -- but think about that for a second. So one of the reasons that I'm so enthusiastic about the rents at PENN 1 and PENN 2 and the rest of our perturbing from $100 a foot is because you asked us figure that a new build is $200 a foot or something like that, maybe less, maybe a pinch more. So the in-place buildings and the better inventory in the great locations will become much more valuable. That's the whole bunch lines of -- that's the punch line to today.

所以——但是想想。因此，我之所以對 PENN 1 和 PENN 2 以及其他建築的租金如此熱衷，將其從每英尺 100 美元左右下調，是因為您要求我們估算新建建築的價格為每英尺 200 美元左右，或者類似的數字，可能更少，也可能更多一點。因此，位於優越地段的現有建築和優質庫存將變得更有價值。這就是整句話──這就是今天的妙語。

Okay. I guess that's what I wanted to understand. I mean you mentioned your vantage point being that sort of cost thus far as sunk. And so I guess you're just looking at the incremental and what it could do for the whole area, not so much thinking about that $2,500 basis and a yield on that?

好的。我想這就是我想要了解的。我的意思是，您提到您的優勢在於迄今為止沉沒的成本。所以我猜你只是在關注增量以及它能為整個地區帶來什麼，而不會過多考慮 2,500 美元的基礎和收益？

Yeah. But the fact of the matter is, is that I own the land. I have -- I bought the land a long time ago. I have no debt on the land. And so given a choice between leaving the land empty or building on it, we'll make those choices. That's what we get paid to do.

是的。但事實是，我擁有這片土地。我已經──很久以前就買了這塊地。我沒有這塊土地的債務。因此，如果要我們選擇讓土地空置還是在其上建造建築物，我們就會做出這樣的選擇。這就是我們得到報酬所做的事情。

Okay. I understand. And then just a quick follow-up. I think you bought a non-performing B note on a Midtown deal last year. Can you give us any update on that or plans or what's happening there?

好的。我明白。然後只是快速的跟進。我認為你去年在 Midtown 交易中購買了一張不良 B 票據。您能否向我們提供關於該問題的最新消息、計劃或那裡發生的情況？

No, sir.

不，先生。

Nick Yulico, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Nick Yulico。

Great. In terms of the PENN project, can you just talk a little bit about whether any the sublease space that's available in Hudson Yards is if you're actually finding that to be competitive when tenants are looking at your project?

偉大的。就 PENN 專案而言，您能否稍微談談哈德遜城市廣場 (Hudson Yards) 是否有可供轉租的空間，當租戶關注您的專案時，您是否發現這些空間確實具有競爭力？

Hi, Nick. It's Glen. So the answer is yes, which if you think about it, PENN 2 and PENN 1 are competing with new space. That's a great thing. And as Steve said, our pricing is not near their pricing even the sublet pricing. So we feel good about the fact that tenant touring the West Side whether it's the sublet availability in Hudson Yard or Manhattan West or PENN 1 or PENN 2, we are squarely in that mix every day. So we like that. We feel very competitive with it, very comfortable with it.

你好，尼克。是格倫。所以答案是肯定的，如果你仔細想想，PENN 2 和 PENN 1 正在競爭新的空間。這是一件很棒的事。正如史蒂夫所說，我們的定價並不接近他們的定價，甚至不像轉租定價。因此，我們很高興看到租戶參觀西區，無論是哈德遜廣場、曼哈頓西區、賓夕法尼亞州 1 號還是賓夕法尼亞州 2 號的轉租情況，我們每天都在其中。所以我們喜歡這個。我們對此感到非常有競爭力，並且感到非常舒適。

Okay. And then second question is just going back to the yield on PENN 2, can you just remind us, I think that the yield when you quote the yield does not include [TIs] and leasing commissions being built into the cost there. So if we assume that I think at one point in the notes, I saw that it was around $140 was around like a TI leasing commission cost there per foot. I just want to see if that's still right. And if we build that in, is the yield on the project inclusive of that, closer to like 7.5%, 8%? Is that ballpark, correct?

好的。然後第二個問題是回到 PENN 2 的收益率，您能否提醒我們，我認為您引用的收益率不包括 [TIs] 和已計入成本的租賃佣金。所以如果我們假設我認為在筆記中的某一點，我看到它大約是 140 美元，就像每英尺 TI 租賃佣金成本一樣。我只是想看看這是否仍然正確。如果我們將其考慮進去，專案的收益率是否包括這一點，接近 7.5%、8% 呢？這個大概數字對嗎？

Yeah, yeah. I mean the answer is that we'll calculate. I mean, I think the thesis is that we would have had to spend the TI dollars, leasing commissions anyway, right? And typically, given what's happened when you're spending those to generate rents that were not economic now, given the quality of the old building.

是啊是啊。我的意思是答案是我們會計算。我的意思是，我認為論點是我們無論如何都必須花費 TI 的資金、租賃佣金，對嗎？而且通常情況下，考慮到當你花費這些錢來產生現在不經濟的租金時會發生什麼，考慮到舊建築的品質。

So we thought the incremental cost, it was cost that we would -- that we spent that we wouldn't have had to spend, right? That's how we got to the members in the supplemental. And what's the yield on that -- so we can factor in the TIs, et cetera, to see, but we would have spent that money anyway.

所以我們認為增量成本就是我們本來不需要花費的成本，對嗎？這就是我們如何獲得補充成員的。那麼收益率是多少呢？我們可以將 TI 等因素考慮進去，但無論如何，我們都會花掉這筆錢。

Okay. So -- and then as the TI leasing commission per foot there was just some around $140, is that number?

好的。那麼 —— 那麼 TI 每英尺的租賃佣金大約是 140 美元，這個數字是嗎？

It's about right, maybe a touch higher depending on the deal.

這是差不多的，也許根據交易情況會稍微高一點。

Brendan Lynch, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的布倫丹·林奇。

It looks like you've got about 14% of ABR expiring at 555 California in the third quarter and 18% for the year. Any details that you can give on renewal discussions. It sounds like you're optimistic on San Francisco in general. Just get some more color please.

看起來，第三季約有 14% 的 ABR 在 555 California 到期，今年則有 18% 的 ABR 到期。您可以提供關於續約討論的任何詳細資訊。聽起來你總體上對舊金山持樂觀態度。請多加一些顏色。

It's Glen. We remain extremely bullish on our building in San Francisco 555. It's the best of building the city, probably the states and certainly one of the best in the country. So when you look back from 2021 forward, we had a full-loaded hundreds of thousands of feet expiring from '21 to '26. We have leased almost 700,000 feet thus far during that period.

是格倫。我們對於位於舊金山 555 的建築仍然十分看好。這是城市建設中最好的，也可能是全州最好的，當然也是全國最好的之一。因此，當你從 2021 年開始回顧時，從 21 年到 26 年，我們有數十萬英尺的滿載貨物到期。截至目前，我們在此期間已租賃近 700,000 平方英尺。

We have some more expirations coming in '25 and then some more in '26. We're attacking those now. Some of those tenants will stay but may not stay. But we feel great about what we've done -- our rents are clearly leading that market. It's not even close. And our tenant roster continues to be five star. So we feel great about 555 as we sit here.

'25 年我們會有一些債券到期，'26 年還會有一些。我們現在正在攻擊這些。有些租戶可能會留下來，但也可能不會留下來。但我們對自己所做的感到非常滿意——我們的租金顯然引領了市場。這根本就不接近。我們的租戶名冊繼續保持五星級。因此，當我們坐在這裡時，我們對 555 感到非常滿意。

Great. Maybe just one follow-up on that. Is the 14% in the third quarter, is that one tenant? Or is that split between multiple different tenants?

偉大的。也許只需進行一次後續行動。第三季的 14% 是一個租戶嗎？或是由多個不同的租戶分割嗎？

The third quarter of -- so in '25, there is multiple tenants expiring, call it, five or six tenants throughout the year in different quarters. None of them is huge. But as you add it up, you get to that role.

在 25 年第三季度，有多個租戶到期，也就是全年不同季度的五、六個租戶。它們都不是巨大的。但當你把它加起來時，你就達到了那個角色。

Steve Sakwa, Evercore.

史蒂夫‧薩誇 (Steve Sakwa)，Evercore。

Just one quick follow-up. On 770, I realize at least Steve isn't quite finished, but it sounds like it's going to get over the finish line soon. Are there any sort of unique accounting I guess, adjustments that we need to be taking into consideration given the unique nature of this? Or is this just a typical normal long-term lease that would have straight-line rent, and we'll have to figure out what kind of the GAAP rent is and straight-line adjustments? I realize you get a lot of cash upfront. But -- just trying to think if there are any nuances of this deal because it is a little bit different.

只需快速跟進一次。在 770 上，我意識到至少史蒂夫還沒有完全完成，但聽起來它很快就會越過終點線。我想，鑑於此事的獨特性質，我們是否需要考慮某種獨特的會計處理或調整？或者這只是一個典型的正常的長期租賃，有直線租金，我們必須弄清楚 GAAP 租金是什麼以及直線調整是什麼？我知道你預先獲得了很多現金。但是——只是想知道這筆交易是否有任何細微差別，因為它有點不同。

I'm not going to comment on that transaction. It will be final. It will -- it is finalized actually. But it will be announced, I would hope by the end of this month. And so the announcements that we make will press release and we'll have all the details that we need to give you guys so that you can understand it. But I mean, you get -- so I don't want to get into the detail now prematurely.

我不會對那筆交易發表評論。這將是最終決定。它會——實際上它已經最終確定了。但我希望在本月底前宣布這一消息。因此，我們將會透過新聞稿發佈公告，並向大家提供所需的所有詳細信息，以便大家理解。但我的意思是，你明白—所以現在我不想過早地討論細節。

John Kim, BMO.

約翰金（BMO）。

Steve, you mentioned the lack of new office development in New York for several years. and how tough it is as far as getting the math to work on some of these sites. But how many projects do you think will get off the ground right around the same time as 350 Park. There's been a few out there in various stages.

史蒂夫，您提到紐約幾年來缺乏新辦公室開發。以及在這些網站上進行數學運算的難度。但您認為有多少項目會與 350 Park 同時啟動？目前已經有幾個處於不同階段的。

None.

沒有任何。

There's not enough demand.

需求不夠。

No, there's plenty of demand. There's just not the cost of building I don't know what's going to happen with the cost of steel now, but who knows. The cost of building and the fact that interest rates remain stubbornly high and the backup availability of aggressive capital will make the market frozen. Now 350 Park is a isolated different point of view because we already have a lease for a major tenant, and we already had a 60% capital part there.

不，需求很多。不只是建築成本，我不知道現在鋼材成本會發生什麼變化，但誰知道呢。建築成本、利率持續居高不下以及激進資本的後備可用性將導致市場凍結。現在 350 Park 是一個孤立的不同觀點，因為我們已經與一個主要租戶簽訂了租約，並且我們在那裡已經擁有 60% 的資本部分。

So 350 Park will get off the ground. My prediction is that almost no other building will get off the ground. And by the way, that could very well include for the for the short term, PENN15.

因此 350 Park 將會順利開工。我預測幾乎沒有其他建築物能夠興建。順便說一句，短期內這很可能包括 PENN15。

Where would rents have to go to justify new development.

租金要去哪裡證明新開發的合理性？

I've already answered that question. $200 a foot is an interesting bonus.

我已經回答過這個問題了。每英尺 200 美元是一筆有趣的獎金。

There are no further questions at this time.

目前沒有其他問題。

Thank you all for participating. I think you can tell from the remarks of our management team. We are extremely enthusiastic about our business and extremely enthusiastic about New York and wildly enthusiastic about the PENN District. So thank you all very much for participating, and we'll see you next quarter.

感謝大家的參與。我想您可以從我們管理團隊的言論中看出來。我們對我們的業務極為熱情，對紐約極為熱情，對賓州區更是充滿熱情。非常感謝大家的參與，我們下季再見。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。