Alignment Healthcare Inc (ALHC) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to Alignment Healthcare's second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call and webcast. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this event is being recorded.

下午好，歡迎參加 Alignment Healthcare 2025 年第二季財報電話會議和網路廣播。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

Leading today's call are John Kao, Founder and CEO; and Jim Head, Chief Financial Officer.

主持今天電話會議的是創辦人兼執行長 John Kao 和財務長 Jim Head。

Before we begin, we would like to remind you that certain statements made during this call will be forward-looking statements as defined by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act. These forward-looking statements are subject to various risks and uncertainties and reflect our current expectations based on our beliefs, assumptions and information currently available to us.

在我們開始之前，我們想提醒您，本次電話會議中所做的某些陳述將屬於《私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受各種風險和不確定性的影響，反映了我們基於當前信念、假設和可用資訊所做的當前預期。

Descriptions of some of the factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these forward-looking statements are discussed in more detail in our filings with the SEC, including the Risk Factors sections of our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2024. Although we believe our expectations are reasonable, we undertake no obligation to revise any statements to reflect changes that occur after this call.

我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中更詳細地討論了可能導致實際結果與這些前瞻性陳述存在重大差異的一些因素，包括截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K 表年度報告中的風險因素部分。儘管我們認為我們的預期是合理的，但我們不承擔修改任何聲明以反映本次電話會議後發生的變化的義務。

In addition, please note that the company will be discussing certain non-GAAP financial measures that they believe are important in evaluating performance. Details on the relationship between these non-GAAP measures to the most comparable GAAP measures and reconciliation of historical non-GAAP financial measures can be found in the press release that is posted on the company's website and in our Form 10-Q for the fiscal quarter ended June 30, 2025.

此外，請注意，公司將討論他們認為對評估業績很重要的某些非 GAAP 財務指標。有關這些非 GAAP 指標與最可比較 GAAP 指標之間的關係以及歷史非 GAAP 財務指標的調節的詳細信息，可以在公司網站上發布的新聞稿和截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日的財政季度的 10-Q 表中找到。

I would now like to turn the call over to John Kao. Sir, you may begin.

現在我想把電話轉給 John Kao。先生，您可以開始了。

Hello, and thank you for joining us on our second-quarter earnings conference call. We are pleased to report another quarter of strong and disciplined execution with the results that exceeded the high end of each of our guidance metrics for the second quarter in a row this year.

您好，感謝您參加我們的第二季財報電話會議。我們很高興地報告，本季的執行情況又強勁而有紀律，今年連續第二季的業績均超過了我們各項指導指標的高端。

Much like 2024 was a breakout year for membership growth, 2025 is well on its way to becoming a breakout year for adjusted EBITDA profitability. For the second quarter 2025, our health plan membership of 223,700 members represented growth of approximately 28% year over year. Strong health plan membership growth supported total revenue of $1 billion, increasing approximately 49% year over year.

正如 2024 年是會員數成長的突破之年一樣，2025 年也有望成為調整後 EBITDA 獲利能力的突破之年。2025 年第二季度，我們的健康計畫會員人數為 223,700 名，較去年同期成長約 28%。強勁的健康計劃會員成長支持了總收入 10 億美元，年增約 49%。

Adjusted gross profit of $135 million increased by 76% year over year. This produced a consolidated MBR of 86.7%, an improvement of 200 basis points over the prior year. Finally, our adjusted SG&A ratio of 8.8% improved by 160 basis points year over year.

調整後毛利為1.35億美元，較去年成長76%。這使得合併 MBR 達到 86.7%，比前一年提高了 200 個基點。最後，我們的調整後銷售、一般及行政費用比率為 8.8%，年比改善了 160 個基點。

Taken together, we delivered adjusted EBITDA of $46 million. This handily surpassed the high end of our guidance range of $10 million to $18 million and produced an adjusted EBITDA margin of 4.5%, generating 360 basis points of margin expansion year over year.

整體而言，我們實現的調整後 EBITDA 為 4,600 萬美元。這輕鬆超過了我們 1000 萬美元至 1800 萬美元的指導範圍的高端，並產生了 4.5% 的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率，同比利潤率擴大了 360 個基點。

Turning to our first-half results. Our MBR of 87.5% improved by 230 basis points compared to last year and our adjusted EBITDA margin of 3.4% improved by 390 basis points. In total, our first-half adjusted EBITDA of $66 million exceeded the high end of our initial full-year guidance range of $35 million to $60 million.

談談我們的上半年業績。我們的 MBR 為 87.5%，與去年相比提高了 230 個基點，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 3.4%，提高了 390 個基點。總體而言，我們上半年調整後的 EBITDA 為 6,600 萬美元，超過了我們最初全年指導範圍的高端 3,500 萬美元至 6,000 萬美元。

We are proud of our execution towards adjusted EBITDA profitability, especially in light of rapid membership growth that was 7 times higher than the industry and a highly dynamic Medicare Advantage environment that includes the second phase-in of V28 risk model changes. Our first-half outcomes continue to validate our business model and further increase our confidence in the 2026 bids we submitted earlier this year.

我們為實現調整後 EBITDA 盈利能力的執行情況感到自豪，特別是考慮到會員人數快速增長（比行業高出 7 倍）以及高度動態的醫療保險優勢環境（包括 V28 風險模型變化的第二階段）。我們上半年的業績繼續驗證了我們的商業模式，並進一步增強了我們對今年稍早提交的 2026 年投標的信心。

The strength of our financial results reflects our operating principles of transparency, visibility and control over the medical outcomes and consumer experience for our seniors. This begins with AVA and our unified data architecture, which provides us with real-time operating and financial visibility, combined with our approach to comprehensive care management as a core competency instead of relying on global capitation.

我們強勁的財務表現反映了我們的經營原則，即對老年人的醫療結果和消費者體驗的透明度、可見性和控制力。這始於 AVA 和我們的統一資料架構，它為我們提供了即時營運和財務視覺性，並結合了我們以綜合護理管理為核心競爭力的方法，而不是依賴全球人頭稅。

Demonstrating our ability to successfully manage rapid membership growth, our second-quarter inpatient admissions per 1,000 ran in the low-140s and outperformed our expectations. This was supported by both new member performance and ongoing clinical engagement with our loyal members, resulting in solid progress toward the embedded earnings potential in each of our member cohorts. Most importantly, our steady execution is highlighting our model's durability as the Medicare landscape continues to evolve.

我們第二季每千人住院人數達到 140 人次出頭，超出了我們的預期，這證明了我們能夠成功管理快速的會員成長。這得益於新會員的表現以及我們忠實會員的持續臨床參與，從而使我們每個會員群體在提升內在盈利潛力方面取得了穩步進展。最重要的是，隨著醫療保險格局的不斷發展，我們穩定的執行凸顯了我們模型的耐用性。

Following our continued momentum across the business in the second quarter and first half, we are raising our guidance ranges across each of our four key metrics. The guidance raise reflects strong fundamental performance across the business, an unchanged Part D outlook and upside from sweep payments. Jim will expand on this in his remarks.

隨著第二季和上半年業務繼續保持良好勢頭，我們將提高四個關鍵指標的指導範圍。指導價的提高反映了整個業務強勁的基本表現、不變的 D 部分前景以及清掃付款帶來的上行空間。吉姆將在他的演講中詳細闡述這一點。

Building upon our success, we are deepening the durability of our provider relationships by more fully integrating our clinical expertise and medical management capabilities. Our increased support aims to improve chronic condition management, create greater coordination of care and increase adoption of our AVA technology insights.

在成功的基礎上，我們透過更全面地整合我們的臨床專業知識和醫療管理能力，加深了與供應商的關係的持久性。我們增加的支援旨在改善慢性病管理，加強護理協調，並提高我們 AVA 技術見解的採用率。

Through closer alignment with our providers, we are driving increased shared savings and profitability for our partnerships. Each provider success story contributes to our growing track record of referenceable outcomes. And as a result, we are increasingly becoming the preferred solution for providers aiming to grow profitably in Medicare Advantage.

透過與我們的供應商更緊密的合作，我們正在推動合作夥伴的共享節約和獲利能力的提高。每個提供者的成功案例都為我們不斷增長的可參考成果記錄做出了貢獻。因此，我們越來越成為那些希望在醫療保險優勢計劃中實現盈利增長的供應商的首選解決方案。

Looking ahead, we believe CMS' continued focus on improving quality is raising the standard to be successful in Medicare Advantage. The agency's mission to provide seniors with the highest quality of care at the lowest cost rewards senior health companies like ours that stand at the intersection of excellent customer experience, exceptional clinical outcomes and affordable products and coverage.

展望未來，我們相信 CMS 對提高品質的持續關注將提高醫療保險優勢計劃的成功標準。該機構的使命是以最低的成本為老年人提供最高品質的護理，這為像我們這樣擁有卓越客戶體驗、卓越臨床結果以及實惠產品和保險的老年保健公司帶來了回報。

This is consistent with our core competencies and the strategic framework we have shared with you over the past few years. We believe we are establishing a new paradigm and leading by example with industry-leading star ratings, exceptional member satisfaction, high member retention, world-class medical outcomes and consistency in our financial performance.

這與我們的核心競爭力以及過去幾年我們與您分享的策略框架一致。我們相信，我們正在建立一種新的範式，並以行業領先的星級評定、卓越的會員滿意度、高會員保留率、世界一流的醫療成果和一致的財務業績樹立榜樣。

The introduction of V28 is further accelerating the importance of our unique capabilities. Since its initial phase-in in 2024 and along with star rating declines across the industry, large incumbent MCOs have lost share in Medicare Advantage for the first time since 2014. Meanwhile, we have continued to maintain our high star ratings and take share from incumbents through this period of dislocation, demonstrating our ability to leverage our competitive advantages into profitable growth.

V28 的推出進一步彰顯了我們獨特能力的重要性。自 2024 年首次實施以來，隨著整個行業星級評定的下降，大型現有 MCO 自 2014 年以來首次在醫療保險優勢計劃中失去份額。同時，在這段混亂時期，我們繼續保持高星級評價，並從現有企業手中奪取市場份額，證明了我們有能力利用競爭優勢來實現獲利成長。

Turning to our preparation for 2026. We are well positioned to deliver another year of at least 20% growth and continued year-over-year growth in adjusted EBITDA. Even following our strong growth over the past few years, we believe we have substantial capacity to take share in existing markets, expand into new counties and enter new states.

談談我們為 2026 年所做的準備。我們已做好準備，在未來一年內實現至少 20% 的成長，並且調整後的 EBITDA 將繼續保持同比增長。即使在過去幾年實現了強勁成長之後，我們仍然相信我們有足夠的能力在現有市場中佔據份額，擴展到新的國家並進入新的州。

With counties we currently serve, our current membership represents just 5% of 4.6 million total MA enrollees. Further expansion into each county within the existing five states would nearly double our reach to an additional 4 million MA enrollees, while additional states in 2027 and beyond could establish our model as the preferred Medicare Advantage platform in the industry.

就我們目前服務的縣而言，我們的現有會員僅佔 MA 總註冊人數 460 萬的 5%。在現有五個州內的每個縣進一步擴張將使我們的覆蓋範圍擴大近一倍，達到另外 400 萬名 MA 登記者，而 2027 年及以後的其他州可以將我們的模式確立為業內首選的醫療保險優勢平台。

To support our long-term growth objectives, we are making investments across the organization. Much like the investments we made in member experience in 2023 and clinical capabilities in 2024, we are continuing to invest a portion of our strong year-to-date outperformance in administrative automation and care navigation to drive success in 2026 and beyond.

為了支持我們的長期成長目標，我們正在整個組織進行投資。就像我們在 2023 年對會員體驗和 2024 年對臨床能力的投資一樣，我們將繼續將今年迄今為止強勁表現的一部分投資於行政自動化和護理導航，以推動 2026 年及以後的成功。

We are continuing to invest in our infrastructure to allow us to scale repeatably. We believe these investments will continue to widen our relative advantages over competitors in the years to come. Lastly, we recently announced that our Arizona HMO contract was revised from 3.5 to 4 stars for payment year 2026 and are pleased that our commitment to quality for our Arizona members is being recognized.

我們將繼續投資於我們的基礎設施，以使我們能夠重複擴展。我們相信，這些投資將在未來幾年繼續擴大我們相對於競爭對手的相對優勢。最後，我們最近宣布，我們的亞利桑那州 HMO 合約在 2026 年付款年度從 3.5 星修改為 4 星，我們很高興我們對亞利桑那州會員的品質承諾得到了認可。

With this latest update, our stars advantages are poised to widen with 100% of our members in a plan receiving 4 star or above payment in 2026. Combined with our confidence in our ability to navigate the third and final phase-in of V28 risk model changes, we believe we are well positioned to achieve our growth and profitability objectives next year.

透過此次最新更新，我們的星級優勢將進一步擴大，到 2026 年，我們計劃中的 100% 會員都將獲得 4 星或以上的付款。結合我們對駕馭 V28 風險模型變化的第三階段和最後階段的能力的信心，我們相信我們完全有能力在明年實現成長和獲利目標。

In conclusion, our momentum during the first half is demonstrating that our approach to Medicare Advantage as a care management business is a winning long-term strategy. By fully integrating our data visibility, technology insights, clinical expertise and financial competency, we are showing the power of a dedicated senior consumer platform as we create the blueprint for the future of MA.

總之，我們上半年的發展勢頭表明，我們將醫療保險優勢計劃作為護理管理業務的做法是一項成功的長期策略。透過全面整合我們的數據視覺性、技術洞察力、臨床專業知識和財務能力，我們在創建 MA 未來藍圖的同時，展示了專用高級消費者平台的力量。

Now I'll turn the call over to Jim to further discuss our financial results and outlook. Jim?

現在我將把電話轉給吉姆，進一步討論我們的財務表現和前景。吉姆？

Thanks, John, for welcoming me to my first earnings call with Alignment. I'm excited to join an organization that is charting the future of Medicare Advantage, and I look forward to engaging with many of you over the coming weeks.

謝謝約翰歡迎我參加與 Alignment 的第一次財報電話會議。我很高興加入一個規劃醫療保險優勢計劃未來的組織，並期待在接下來的幾週內與你們中的許多人進行交流。

Now turning to our results. For the quarter ended June 2025, our health plan membership of 223,700 increased 28% year over year. Meanwhile, our second-quarter revenue of $1.0 billion represented 49% growth year over year.

現在來看看我們的結果。截至 2025 年 6 月的季度，我們的健康計畫會員人數為 223,700 人，年增 28%。同時，我們第二季的營收為 10 億美元，年增 49%。

Strong revenue growth was driven by continued momentum in new member additions, a year-over-year increase in Part D revenue PMPM and revenue pickup from the 2024 final sweep, which I'll expand on shortly. Total adjusted gross profit in the quarter of $135 million grew 76% compared to the prior year. This represented an MBR of 86.7% and improved by 200 basis points year over year.

強勁的收入成長得益於新會員持續成長的勢頭、D 部分收入 PMPM 的同比增長以及 2024 年最終收視率的回升，我將很快對此進行詳細說明。本季調整後總毛利潤為 1.35 億美元，較上年同期成長 76%。這意味著 MBR 為 86.7%，年比提高了 200 個基點。

The strength of our second-quarter MBR and gross profit results were underpinned by strong execution in our provider engagement and clinical initiatives, leading to inpatient admissions per 1,000 in the low-140s and outperformance in our core medical expenses.

我們第二季 MBR 和毛利的強勁表現得益於我們在供應商參與和臨床計劃方面的強勁執行，導致每 1,000 人的住院人數達到 140 出頭，並且核心醫療費用表現出色。

Additionally, our Part D MBR was slightly favorable in the first half. With six months of experience, we now have further confidence in our full-year expectations for Part D.

此外，我們的 D 部分 MBR 在上半年略有好轉。憑藉六個月的經驗，我們現在對 D 部分的全年預期更加有信心。

Lastly, favorability from the 2024 final sweep contributed approximately $14 million to adjusted gross profit. Gross profit from the final sweep is primarily attributed to a large cohort of new members who joined us in 2024.

最後，2024 年最終勝利為調整後的毛利貢獻了約 1,400 萬美元。最後一次大掃除的毛利主要歸功於 2024 年加入我們的一大批新成員。

While the size of the final sweep varies from year to year, this is very much a normal part of our business, which reflects a catch-up in payment from CMS for members who were previously under reimbursed in 2024 relative to the severity of their chronic conditions.

雖然最終的補償金額每年都有所不同，但這在很大程度上是我們業務的正常組成部分，反映了 CMS 對 2024 年之前因慢性病嚴重程度而未獲得足夠補償的會員進行補償。

Excluding the final sweep payment, we still would have outperformed the high end of our guidance range across each of our key metrics in the quarter and would have produced an adjusted MBR of 87.7% compared to the MBR implied by the high end of our second-quarter guidance of 88.3%.

不包括最後的清掃付款，我們在本季度的每個關鍵指標上仍然會超過指導範圍的高端，並且會實現 87.7% 的調整後 MBR，而第二季度指導高端所暗示的 MBR 為 88.3%。

Turning to OpEx. Adjusted SG&A in the second quarter was $89 million and declined as a percentage of revenue by 160 basis points year over year to 8.8%. This marks a continuation of the outcomes achieved in the first quarter and once again demonstrates our ability to scale our capital-light operating model.

轉向 OpEx。第二季調整後的銷售、一般及行政費用為 8,900 萬美元，佔營收的百分比年減 160 個基點至 8.8%。這標誌著第一季所取得的成果的延續，並再次證明了我們擴展輕資本營運模式的能力。

Our SG&A result also included approximately $6 million of timing benefit, which we expect to reverse in the second half, keeping our full-year expectations for SG&A roughly unchanged. Finally, adjusted EBITDA was $46 million in the quarter.

我們的銷售、一般及行政費用結果還包括約 600 萬美元的計時收益，我們預計該收益將在下半年逆轉，從而使我們對銷售、一般及行政費用的全年預期保持基本不變。最後，本季調整後的 EBITDA 為 4,600 萬美元。

This reflects an adjusted EBITDA margin of 4.5%, which improved by 360 basis points compared to the second quarter of 2024. Moving to the balance sheet. We ended the second quarter with $504 million in cash, cash equivalents, and investments.

這反映出調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 4.5%，與 2024 年第二季相比提高了 360 個基點。轉到資產負債表。截至第二季末，我們擁有 5.04 億美元的現金、現金等價物和投資。

Turning to our guidance. For the third quarter, we expect the following: health plan membership to be between 225,000 and 227,000 members; revenue to be in the range of $970 million to $985 million; adjusted gross profit to be between $106 million and $114 million; and adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of $5 million to $13 million.

轉向我們的指導。對於第三季度，我們預計：健康計劃會員人數將在 225,000 至 227,000 人之間；收入將在 9.7 億美元至 9.85 億美元之間；調整後的毛利潤將在 1.06 億美元至 1.14 億美元之間；調整後的 EBITDA 將在 130 萬美元之間。

For the full year 2025, we expect the following: health plan membership to be between 229,000 and 234,000 members; revenue to be in the range of $3.885 billion to $3.910 billion; adjusted gross profit to be between $452 million and $469 million; and adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of $69 million to $83 million.

對於 2025 年全年，我們預計：健康計劃會員人數將在 229,000 至 234,000 人之間；收入將在 38.85 億美元至 39.10 億美元之間；調整後的毛利潤將在 4.52 億美元至 4.69 億美元之間；調整後的 EBITDA 將在 690 萬美元之間；調整後的 690 萬美元之間。

Following the strength of our second-quarter and first-half results, we are increasing our membership guidance in each of our key P&L metrics. Our 2025 sales continue to exceed expectations through the second quarter, supporting our full-year membership raise. Continued momentum on new sales is also reflected in our revised outlook of $3.9 billion at the midpoint, which now implies approximately 44% growth year over year.

鑑於我們第二季和上半年業績的強勁表現，我們正在提高每個關鍵損益指標的會員指引。我們的 2025 年銷售額在第二季度繼續超出預期，支持了我們全年會員人數的成長。新銷售額的持續成長動能也反映在我們修正後的中位數預期中，即 39 億美元，這意味著年成長約 44%。

Turning to our 2025 profitability expectations. The midpoint of our updated adjusted gross profit guidance of $461 million was raised by $28 million, which is greater than the magnitude of our second quarter beat. This latest update now implies an MBR of 88.2% for the year, a 40 basis point improvement from our prior annual guidance.

談到我們對 2025 年獲利能力的預期。我們更新後的調整後毛利預期中位數為 4.61 億美元，上調了 2,800 萬美元，這一幅度高於第二季的超額利潤。最新更新意味著今年的 MBR 為 88.2%，比我們之前的年度指導提高了 40 個基點。

Meanwhile, the $27 million increase in our adjusted EBITDA guidance to $76 million at the midpoint captures strong performance through the first half of the year and implies a 1.9% adjusted EBITDA margin for the full year.

同時，我們的調整後 EBITDA 指引增加了 2,700 萬美元，中點為 7,600 萬美元，體現了今年上半年的強勁表現，並意味著全年調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 1.9%。

Our profitability outlook includes the following components in the second half. First, we expect continued stability in our inpatient admission per 1,000 results with the second half running modestly higher year over year due to changes in our mix of membership.

我們對下半年的獲利前景包括以下內容。首先，我們預計每千人住院人數將持續保持穩定，由於會員結構的變化，下半年每千人住院人數將較去年同期略有增加。

This is consistent with our previous comments. Second, while our first-half Part D gross margin ran a few million dollars favorable to expectations, we are keeping our full-year assumptions approximately unchanged.

這與我們先前的評論一致。其次，雖然我們上半年 D 部分毛利率達到了幾百萬美元，符合預期，但我們對全年的假設基本上保持不變。

Based on the first six months of our Part D experience, we feel confident that our outlook assumptions accurately reflect underlying cost trends in Part B and continue to expect our Part D MBR will be modestly lower in the second half compared to the first half.

根據我們 D 部分前六個月的經驗，我們相信我們的前景假設準確反映了 B 部分的潛在成本趨勢，並繼續預計下半年我們的 D 部分 MBR 將略低於上半年。

And third, we expect the $6 million of SG&A timing favorability we experienced in the first half to reverse in the second half, leaving our full-year SG&A expectations roughly unchanged. For full year 2025, our latest guidance implies an adjusted SG&A ratio of 9.9%, reflecting an improvement of 130 basis points year over year.

第三，我們預計上半年經歷的 600 萬美元銷售、一般和行政費用時機優勢將在下半年逆轉，使我們全年銷售、一般和行政費用預期基本保持不變。對於 2025 年全年，我們的最新指引顯示調整後的銷售、一般及行政費用比率為 9.9%，較去年同期增加 130 個基點。

Spending a moment on seasonality, we expect the fourth quarter MBR to be higher than the third quarter due to normal seasonality from the combination of lower revenue PMPM between Q3 and Q4 and regular utilization patterns in Medicare Advantage, including the impact of the flu season. Additionally, we continue to expect changes in Part D seasonality due to the Inflation Reduction Act, including a higher MBR in the fourth quarter relative to prior years.

考慮一下季節性因素，我們預計第四季度的 MBR 將高於第三季度，這是由於第三季度和第四季度之間 PMPM 收入較低以及醫療保險優勢計劃的常規使用模式（包括流感季節的影響）造成的正常季節性因素。此外，我們繼續預計，由於《通膨削減法案》，D 部分的季節性將發生變化，包括第四季度的 MBR 相對於前幾年將有所上升。

On operating expenses, consistent with normal seasonality, we expect the ramp-up of AEP-related sales and marketing expenses and staffing in preparation for 2026 growth to increase our second half SG&A, particularly in the fourth quarter. With these factors in mind, we expect adjusted EBITDA to be higher in the third quarter than in the fourth quarter.

在營運費用方面，與正常的季節性一致，我們預計 AEP 相關的銷售和行銷費用以及人員配備將會增加，為 2026 年的成長做準備，從而增加我們下半年的銷售、一般和行政費用 (SG&A)，尤其是在第四季度。考慮到這些因素，我們預計第三季的調整後 EBITDA 將高於第四季。

Taken together, we are pleased with our first-half results and we're well positioned to deliver on our increased full-year expectations. With our latest update and our full-year outlook, we now expect to be free cash flow positive on a company-wide basis in 2025. This is a milestone in our organizational maturity and adds to our position of strength as we plan for 2026.

總的來說，我們對上半年的業績感到滿意，並且我們有能力實現提高的全年預期。根據我們的最新更新和全年展望，我們預計 2025 年全公司範圍內的自由現金流將為正值。這是我們組織成熟度的一個里程碑，增強了我們為 2026 年制定計劃的實力。

Lastly, I'd like to take a moment to express how energized I am to be part of this mission-driven organization. In my first few months, I've been deeply impressed by the expertise of the team, the sophistication of our integrated clinical and technology platform, and the strength of our financial visibility and processes.

最後，我想花點時間表達我作為這個以使命為導向的組織的一員所感受到的興奮。在最初的幾個月裡，團隊的專業知識、我們綜合臨床和技術平台的先進性以及我們財務可見性和流程的強大性給我留下了深刻的印象。

As I settle into my role as CFO, investors can expect continued consistency in our reserving methodology and financial communication with investors.

隨著我逐漸適應財務長的職位，投資者可以期待我們的儲備方法和與投資者的財務溝通繼續保持一致。

With that, let's open the call to questions. Operator?

現在，讓我們開始提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Matthew Gillmor, KeyBanc.

（操作員指示）Matthew Gillmor，KeyBanc。

Hey. Good afternoon, Congrats on the great results. John mentioned your efforts to deepen your provider relationships and to help them better manage costs and that you're becoming a preferred solution for providers that are managing MA costs. I think last call, you mentioned some IPA relationships, but I thought you might provide some details there and give us a sense for how this is different from your prior relationships on the provider side.

嘿。下午好，恭喜你取得優異的成績。約翰提到您為深化與供應商的關係並幫助他們更好地管理成本所做的努力，並且您正在成為管理 MA 成本的供應商的首選解決方案。我認為最後一次，您提到了一些 IPA 關係，但我認為您可以提供一些細節，讓我們了解這與您之前在提供者方面的關係有何不同。

Yeah. Hey, it's John. Great question. The historical acute admissions per 1,000, if you recall, we've shared in the past, has ranged in the 150 to 160 range. And for this past quarter, we were actually closer to the low-140s, and we communicated that.

是的。嘿，我是約翰。好問題。如果你還記得的話，我們過去曾分享過，每 1,000 人的歷史急性入院人數在 150 到 160 之間。而在過去這個季度，我們實際上更接近 140 出頭，我們也傳達了這一點。

And that's really a result of we having conversations with our IPAs and medical groups and jointly concluding that we have tools and the data, the tools to give both the plan us and the medical group better visibility and control.

這實際上是我們與 IPA 和醫療團體進行對話的結果，我們共同得出結論，我們擁有工具和數據，這些工具可以讓我們和醫療團體更好地了解和控制計劃。

And as we've worked together collaboratively, it's yielding results, not only for stars and quality metrics, but also as reflected in utilization management. And so this whole concept of alignment and creating operating and financial alignment with these providers is starting to pay off.

隨著我們的合作不斷深入，成果不僅體現在星級和品質指標上，也體現在利用率管理上。因此，與這些供應商協調以及建立營運和財務協調的整個概念開始獲得回報。

And so the result of it is they're surplusing more, they're making more money, the members are happier, getting more access, and we'll be continuing to do that throughout the entire book of business. And it's a meaningful differentiator in this world of V28. And I think that what's really interesting is I think that people really appreciate the increased quality and access that this is also yielding.

結果是，他們盈餘更多，賺更多錢，會員更快樂，獲得更多機會，我們將在整個業務過程中繼續這樣做。這是 V28 世界中的一個有意義的區別因素。我認為真正有趣的是，我認為人們確實欣賞由此帶來的品質和訪問量的提高。

Does that help, Matt?

這有幫助嗎，馬特？

No, it does. I appreciate that. And then I wanted to see if you could provide just a little bit of color in terms of what you're seeing from a utilization standpoint. Obviously, great to see inpatient really controlled through your efforts. But any comments you'd make on outpatient or any particular areas to note in terms of either success or what's driving trend?

不，確實如此。我很感激。然後我想看看您是否可以從利用率的角度提供一些您所看到的情況。顯然，很高興看到住院病人透過您的努力得到了真正的控制。但是，您對門診或任何需要注意的特定領域（無論是成功還是驅動趨勢）有何評論？

Yeah. I think if you break trend into utilization and rate, John just mentioned, we're very, very focused on ADK, but also just the full gamut of clinical spend. And as we think about our trends inside how we're managing the business quite actively, we've seen a lot of stability. And I would say that's across -- there's always a little hotspots, but we're actively managing them. But we see it across inpatient, outpatient.

是的。我認為，如果將趨勢分解為利用率和比率，正如約翰剛才提到的，我們非常非常關注 ADK，但也關注整個臨床支出範圍。當我們思考我們如何積極地管理業務時，我們看到了很大的穩定性。我想說的是——總是存在一些熱點，但我們正在積極地管理它們。但我們在住院病人和門診病人中都看到這種情況。

I think the notable difference is really in Part D, which we talked about on the call, which has a higher trend than the medical side of things. But on the medical side of things, when we're working directly with the IPAs and the providers, we've got a pretty good line of sight on utilization and it's trending nicely. Rate always has a little bit of upward trend, and it's really tied to Medicare fee-for-service type rate trends. So all in all, we feel pretty good about the visibility we have on utilization.

我認為顯著的差異確實在於我們在電話會議上討論的 D 部分，其趨勢比醫學方面更高。但從醫療方面來看，當我們直接與 IPA 和供應商合作時，我們對利用率有了相當好的了解，而且趨勢很好。費率總是略有上升趨勢，並且與醫療保險按服務收費類型的費率趨勢密切相關。總而言之，我們對利用率的可見度感到非常滿意。

That's great. Thanks a lot, guys.

那太棒了。非常感謝大家。

Michael Ha, Baird.

麥可·哈，貝爾德。

Thank you. Yeah, I want to focus on SG&A. So 8.8% this quarter. It looks like your updated guide now implies sub-10% full year. So yeah, I was just flipping through my Humana model.

謝謝。是的，我想專注於銷售、一般和行政費用 (SG&A)。本季為 8.8%。看起來您更新後的指南現在暗示全年低於 10%。是的，我只是在瀏覽我的 Humana 模型。

I don't think they've ever done a full year of sub-10% and they're roughly 30x your size in revenue, yet you're outperforming them on SG&A, arguably better cost leverage, scale economy. So as we look ahead, it almost feels like you're setting a new benchmark on SG&A for an MA plan or rather a new paradigm, like John said.

我認為他們從來沒有實現過全年低於 10% 的成長率，而且他們的收入大約是你們的 30 倍，但你們在銷售、一般和行政費用方面的表現優於他們，可以說你們具有更好的成本槓桿和規模經濟。因此，當我們展望未來時，幾乎感覺您正在為 MA 計劃設定銷售、一般及行政費用的新基準，或者更確切地說，是一個新範式，就像約翰所說的那樣。

So thinking ahead, what's the path forward? I understand broker commissions, marketing, general corporate costs will always be at a certain level, but how durable is this level of SG&A as you continue to scale and grow in the coming years? And how much lower could it possibly go over time?

那麼展望未來，前進的道路是什麼？我知道經紀人佣金、行銷、一般公司成本總是會維持在一定水平，但隨著未來幾年公司規模不斷擴大和發展，這種銷售、一般和行政費用水平能持續多久？隨著時間的推移，它還能降低多少？

And are there any parts of your cost structure where there might even be levers where, for example, AI initiatives hasn't even made a dent yet and that could drive more opportunity over time?

您的成本結構中是否存在一些可能具有槓桿作用的部分，例如，人工智慧計畫尚未產生影響，但隨著時間的推移，這些部分可能會帶來更多的機會？

Yeah. Hey, Mike, it's John. Yeah, I think the main thing to have clear is we have the benefit of setting up our data architecture with a clean slate. And so when we talk about having a unified data architecture, it's a really competitive -- it's a big deal. It's a big competitive advantage we have relative to some of the incumbent legacy players.

是的。嘿，麥克，我是約翰。是的，我認為最需要明確的是，我們可以從頭開始建立資料架構。因此，當我們談論擁有統一的資料架構時，這確實是一個競爭性的話題——這是一件大事。相對於一些現有的傳統企業，這是我們的一大競爭優勢。

And that has given us the the visibility and control we have. And so when you have that, you don't need the amount of FTEs really. You have the data, you have the systems. You don't need to have a bunch of people reconciling all this stuff. And I think the secret sauce really with us is sure, the data is critical.

這給了我們可見性和控制力。所以，當你擁有這些時，你實際上並不需要那麼多的 FTE。您有數據，您有系統。你不需要找一群人來協調所有這些事情。我認為我們真正的秘訣是，數據至關重要。

AVA, as you've heard us talk about, is critical. And Care Anywhere and the clinical model, it's all critical. But it's how the clinical, the operations and the financial parts of the organization, all seamlessly are operationalized from a workflow point of view.

正如您聽到我們談論的，AVA 至關重要。Care Anywhere 和臨床模式都至關重要。但從工作流程的角度來看，它是組織的臨床、營運和財務部分如何無縫地運作起來的。

And so to your point, in addition to the outstanding financial performance, behind the scenes, we've spent a lot of time and energy on streamlining workflows, ensuring that the data can get even better because you need those two foundational pieces to apply the AI or certainly the Agentic or Generative AI and we're looking at that very, very carefully. And we're very careful not to be on the bleeding edge of that.

所以正如您所說，除了出色的財務表現之外，我們在幕後投入了大量的時間和精力來簡化工作流程，確保數據能夠變得更好，因為您需要這兩個基礎部分來應用人工智能，或者當然是代理或生成人工智能，我們正在非常非常仔細地研究這一點。我們非常小心，不讓自己處於這種前沿。

To your point, I don't think there's much traction in it because I don't think a lot of the people -- the incumbents have really clean data and really clean workflows. So that's an area we're spending time and making investments in that. To your point, I do believe will start paying off in the next couple of years, I think.

正如您所說，我認為它不會有太大的吸引力，因為我認為很多人——現任者沒有真正乾淨的數據和真正乾淨的工作流程。因此，我們正在這個領域投入時間和資金。正如您所說，我確實相信在未來幾年內將會開始獲得回報。

And the other thing we're doing is really investing in training, training and development of this model, which candidly, we've had to conclude that we've got to get the best athletes in the industry and then train them because I don't see a lot of people doing MA the way that we're doing it. So I do think there's opportunity.

我們正在做的另一件事是真正投資於這種模式的培訓、訓練和開發，坦白說，我們必須得出結論，我們必須找到業內最優秀的運動員，然後訓練他們，因為我沒有看到很多人像我們一樣進行 MA。所以我確實認為有機會。

Thank you. That's great to hear. And then in terms of the final risk adjustment sweep benefit this quarter, I was wondering, does that also include the Part D risk adjustment sweep as well or is that normally a back half of the year type item?

謝謝。聽到這個消息真是太好了。然後就本季的最終風險調整清掃收益而言，我想知道，這是否也包括 D 部分風險調整清掃，或者這通常是下半年的專案？

And if I'm not mistaken, that's usually a bit of a benefit too. And then another just quick follow-up is on bids. Your peers have really commented on ‘26 bids over the past couple of weeks, a lot of them assuming trends approaching 10%.

如果我沒記錯的話，這通常也有一些好處。然後另一個快速的後續問題是投標。您的同行在過去幾週內確實對 26 個出價發表了評論，其中許多出價都假設趨勢接近 10%。

I know there's a lot of nuance between your different markets, but curious what you're seeing on trend this year? What you're assuming on trend for your bids next year? And with the week left until, I guess, rebate reallocation, has any of your learnings over the past few weeks changed your thinking or whether you'd like to make some adjustments? Thoughts there would be great. Thank you.

我知道不同市場之間存在著許多細微差別，但好奇您今年看到的趨勢是什麼？您認為明年的出價趨勢如何？我想，距離回扣重新分配還有一周的時間，過去幾週您的任何經驗是否改變了您的想法，或者您是否願意做出一些調整？認為那裡會很棒。謝謝。

Why don't I -- this is Jim here. I'll just take the final sweep and describe it a little bit more. So the $14 million of gross profit we called out was for the 2024 final sweep. So that's not any mid-year Part D or Part C sweep, just the 2024 final sweep. We felt like it was wise to call that out just because of the size of it and the fact that it was not in period.

我為什麼不——我是吉姆。我將進行最後的掃描並對其進行更多描述。因此，我們所說的 1400 萬美元毛利是為了 2024 年的最終勝利。因此，這不是任何年中 D 部分或 C 部分的橫掃，只是 2024 年的最終橫掃。我們覺得，考慮到它的大小以及它不屬於那個時期，所以指出這一點是明智的。

But this -- I'll just be very clear. This is a very normal part of our business, particularly as we grow. What we do is we book paid MMR for new members, okay? And we're not banking on any uptick because it's not the members that we had the previous year, they switched over. And so what happened this year is we had a pretty large cohort come through.

但這一點——我會說得非常清楚。這是我們業務中非常正常的一部分，尤其是在我們發展的過程中。我們所做的就是為新會員預訂付費 MMR，好嗎？我們不指望有任何成長，因為他們不是我們去年的會員，而是轉換過來的。所以今年的情況是，我們迎來了一大批這樣的人才。

And the final sweep was a relatively significant magnitude. But it's part of our business. And so our loyal accruals have always been pretty consistent with our expectations, which is why it doesn't do much in the mid-year suites, et cetera. So excluding the final suite, as we called out, we would have hit all of our metrics, all of our four key metrics for the quarter and beat the high end of the guidance. So what you see from us is the final suite not the Part D or the Part C mid-year suites.

最後的掃蕩幅度相對較大。但這是我們業務的一部分。因此，我們的忠誠度累積始終與我們的預期非常一致，這就是為什麼它在年中套房等方面沒有太大作用的原因。因此，正如我們所呼籲的，不包括最終套件，我們將達到所有指標，即本季的所有四個關鍵指標，並超過預期的高端。因此，您從我們這裡看到的是最終套件，而不是 D 部分或 C 部分的年中套件。

John Ransom, Raymond James.

約翰·蘭塞姆、雷蒙·詹姆斯。

Hey, there. Just zooming out to a big picture question. Obviously, healthcare insurance companies are unpopular. I know there's some one-size-fits-all rules around audits. From your -- admittedly small first, what are you doing to move the conversation around public advocacy? And do you think you're getting any traction in D.C. about this?

嘿。只是縮小到宏觀問題。顯然，醫療保險公司不受歡迎。我知道審計方面有一些通用的規則。從你的——誠然，一開始很小——開始，你正在做什麼來推動圍繞公共倡議的對話？您認為您在華盛頓對此事有什麼看法嗎？

Hey, John, it's John. Yeah. No, we were invited to be one of the witnesses in front of the House Ways and Means Subcommittee on Health last week or was it a couple of weeks ago. And our President, Dawn Maroney, did a great job presenting just how we think about MA. And what's interesting is I think people are absolutely listening. This is all public. It's all video and everything.

嘿，約翰，我是約翰。是的。不，我們是上週或幾週前被邀請作為眾議院籌款委員會衛生小組委員會的證人之一。我們的總裁 Dawn Maroney 出色地闡述了我們對 MA 的看法。有趣的是，我認為人們絕對在傾聽。這一切都是公開的。全是視頻和一切。

And I think they understand what we are doing is differential than I call it the incumbents. I think one of the Congressmen referred to us as the good guys. And so it's consistent with what you and I talked about four years ago when we took the company public and say, I think the narrative has to change and it has to change to the principles that we are pushing, not only within our company, but pushing for the entire sector and the industry. And I'm certainly communicating these principles to AHIP as well.

我認為他們明白我們所做的事情與我所說的現任者有所不同。我認為其中一位國會議員稱我們為好人。因此，這與你我四年前在公司上市時談論的內容一致，我認為敘事必須改變，必須改變我們所推行的原則，不僅在我們公司內部，而且在整個行業和整個產業推行。我當然也會向 AHIP 傳達這些原則。

And it's really just serve the senior, just really serve the senior. And I think what we're trying to tell everybody is you can create a win-win by providing more care, not less care, but more care, but really to provide those -- to provide that care to the right people at the right time. And I think that's the win-win opportunity. And I think because of that, you're going to see people look at Alignment as hope. Hope that this industry can get to a point where it will change the public perception.

這真的只是為了服務老年人，真的只是為了服務老年人。我想我們想告訴大家的是，透過提供更多的護理，而不是更少的護理，你可以創造雙贏，但實際上要提供這些護理——在正確的時間為正確的人提供護理。我認為這是一個雙贏的機會。我認為正因為如此，你會看到人們將 Alignment 視為希望。希望這個行業能夠發展到改變公眾看法的程度。

And my second question and I'll ring off is, your care model, if we think about value-based care three years ago, it was discretely managing costs among COPD, type 2 diabetes, some chronic disease. Where does this sit now in terms of like predictive analytics and deflecting trend among this chronic population? Thanks.

我的第二個問題是，您的護理模式，如果我們考慮三年前基於價值的護理，它是在 COPD、2 型糖尿病和一些慢性疾病之間進行離散管理成本。就預測分析和轉移慢性病族群的趨勢而言，這現在處於什麼位置？謝謝。

Yeah. No, it's a great question. I think it's going to just get more and more personalized care. I think we are looking very carefully at evolving our machine learning algorithms and applying those AI techniques into the next generation of AI. I think that will give us better and faster insights that we can take action faster.

是的。不，這是一個很好的問題。我認為它將得到越來越個性化的護理。我認為我們正在非常仔細地研究改進我們的機器學習演算法並將這些人工智慧技術應用到下一代人工智慧中。我認為這將為我們提供更好、更快的洞察力，以便我們可以更快地採取行動。

And I think the reason we're doing so well now is that the whole funding structure is changing. Four years ago, you had a lot more premium dollars to play with that you could, in fact, support effectively two insurance companies in that one supply chain.

我認為我們現在做得這麼好的原因是整個資金結構正在改變。四年前，你可以支配更多的保費，實際上你可以有效地支持同一條供應鏈中的兩家保險公司。

And what I'm talking about is the regulated health plan and then also the value-based global cap taking entity. With V28 and a tighter emphasis on quality on stars, it's -- the revenue is getting tighter. And so you can't afford just to pass risk down to a global cap entity.

我所談論的是受監管的健康計劃，以及基於價值的全球上限實體。隨著 V28 和對明星品質的更加重視，收入變得越來越緊張。因此，你不能將風險轉嫁給全球資本實體。

And so the entities in MA that can manage the risk, manage the risk while maintaining high star ratings, i.e., you can't just deny care, are going to be the ultimate winners in this space. And you're seeing just the very, very nascent beginnings of that with our quarterly communication

因此，MA 中能夠管理風險、在保持高星級的同時管理風險的實體（即您不能拒絕護理）將成為該領域的最終贏家。而你從我們的季度溝通中看到的只是剛開始的階段

And I think the thing to think through is this is all happening with just two-thirds of V28 going through, right, in 2025. When you've got the final one-third of V28 playing through in 2026, the organizations that can understand how to do this are going to be the winners.

我認為需要深思的是，這一切都發生在 2025 年僅有三分之二的 V28 通過的情況下。當 2026 年 V28 的最後三分之一完成時，能夠理解如何做到這一點的組織將成為贏家。

Thank you, sir.

謝謝您，先生。

Got it, John.

明白了，約翰。

Jared Haase, William Blair and Company.

賈里德‧哈斯 (Jared Haase)，威廉‧布萊爾公司。

Yeah. Hey, guys. Good afternoon and thanks for taking the questions. John, in the prepared remarks, you mentioned administrative automation and care navigation specifically as key focus areas going forward. I was just hoping if there's -- to see if there's additional color, maybe some examples you could share where you see the biggest opportunities for improvement in those areas. And then, I guess the answer to this is, it's probably both, but I'd be curious if you would frame this as we should be thinking about this having a bigger impact on existing member retention or new member growth. Thanks.

是的。嘿，大家好。下午好，感謝您回答問題。約翰，在準備好的演講中，您特別提到行政自動化和護理導航是未來的重點領域。我只是希望——看看是否有額外的細節，也許您可以分享一些例子，在這些例子中您看到了這些領域最大的改進機會。然後，我想這個問題的答案是，可能兩者都有，但我很好奇您是否可以這樣表述，因為我們應該考慮這對現有會員保留或新會員增長產生更大的影響。謝謝。

Yeah. It's -- the answer is both. And I think it's specifically related to what we've done in terms of our core systems. And we're, again, positioning the company to scale, and what that means to me is, ensuring that workflows are consistent, and workflows are automated and workflows are systematized.

是的。答案是兩者皆有。我認為這與我們在核心系統方面所做的工作具體相關。我們再次將公司定位在擴大規模，對我來說，這意味著確保工作流程一致、工作流程自動化和工作流程系統化。

And so, we're getting to that point where a lot of our core systems are really tight, and there's a high degree of consistency and reliability of our execution.

因此，我們正處於這樣的階段：我們的許多核心系統都非常緊密，我們的執行具有高度的一致性和可靠性。

And so, this past year, we put in a new EHR, Athena. We put in a new HR system, Workday. I mean, just basic core systems that are going to allow us to scale. We put in Facets, a claim adjudication platform. And what we did, which is super interesting is, we don't view that as a core system.

因此，去年我們引進了新的 EHR，Athena。我們引進了一個新的人力資源系統－Workday。我的意思是，只有基本的核心系統才能讓我們擴展。我們引入了索賠裁決平台 Facets。我們所做的非常有趣的是，我們不將其視為核心系統。

We view AVA as our core system, and we've been successful in integrating the claims adjudication application into AVA, and the team did an amazing job.

我們將 AVA 視為我們的核心系統，我們已成功將索賠裁決應用程式整合到 AVA 中，團隊做得非常出色。

And so, that will yield better and more accurate claims payment, higher degrees of auto-adjudication, which leads to more consistency, ensuring that our concierge processes, and I use concierge very selectively.

因此，這將產生更好、更準確的索賠支付，更高程度的自動裁決，從而帶來更高的一致性，確保我們的禮賓流程，而且我非常有選擇性地使用禮賓服務。

We really don't have -- we don't do UM per se as other people do UM. We really use UM as a concierge service and care navigate for members. And that's evidenced by the fact that our denial rates are like less than 2%. And that's a data point, again, that we can actually get great utilization outcomes by being focused on where you provide the care.

我們確實沒有——我們不像其他人那樣做 UM。我們確實將 UM 用作禮賓服務和為會員提供關懷導航。我們的拒絕率低於 2%，這證明了這一點。這是一個數據點，再次表明，透過專注於您提供護理的地方，我們實際上可以獲得很好的利用結果。

All of these core systems are going to pay off. They haven't paid off quite yet because we're not big enough, but they're going to help us get big. And I'm very confident of that.

所有這些核心系統都將獲得回報。由於我們的規模還不夠大，他們還沒有為我們帶來回報，但他們會幫助我們變得更大。我對此非常有信心。

Got it. That makes sense, and that's helpful. And then maybe just as a quick follow-up. Appreciate all the color you've shared on utilization trends. I was just curious, is there anything you can share in terms of your experience on supplemental benefit utilization and expense and how that's tracked relative to your expectations year-to-date?

知道了。這很有道理，而且很有幫助。然後也許只是作為一個快速的後續行動。感謝您分享有關利用趨勢的所有資訊。我只是好奇，您能否分享一下您在補充福利利用和費用方面的經驗，以及相對於您今年迄今為止的預期，您的情況如何？

Yeah. Last year, if you recall, we had some negative variances on our supplemental card. And we've corrected for all of that in this year. And I would say, overall, it's all in line.

是的。如果你還記得的話，去年我們的補充卡出現了一些負差異。今年我們已經糾正了所有這些問題。我想說，整體來說，一切都是符合的。

Okay. Great to hear.

好的。很高興聽到這個消息。

Craig Jones, Bank of America.

美國銀行的克雷格瓊斯。

Hey. Thanks for the question, guys. So I want to talk a little about -- ask about marketing dollar yield and customer acquisition costs. With some of the other plans cutting benefits, focusing on shedding members rather than growing. I was wondering if you've seen a higher yield on your marketing dollars. And if so, is that quantifiable? And what margin tailwind it may be driving? Thanks.

嘿。謝謝大家的提問。所以我想稍微談談——詢問一下行銷美元收益和客戶獲取成本。其他一些計劃則削減福利，專注於減少會員而不是增加會員。我想知道您是否看到了行銷資金的更高收益。如果是的話，可以量化嗎？它可能帶來哪些利潤順風？謝謝。

Yeah. No, it's a really good question. The answer is yes. But really, as we are couple of months away from AEP, we're going to not get too specific about that, and we'll report back on that, I promise, Craig, after AEP. We feel good about AEP.

是的。不，這是一個非常好的問題。答案是肯定的。但實際上，由於距離 AEP 僅有幾個月的時間，我們不會對此進行太具體的說明，我向 Craig 保證，我們會在 AEP 之後報告。我們對 AEP 感覺很好。

I think our market analysis and competitive analysis, where we think our competitors are going to land, how we think we're positioned is, we feel pretty good about where we are. I think most of our growth thus far, I would say, has been largely word of mouth in many respects and with really fantastic FMO partners and broker partners who I believe really care about quality outcomes for our members.

我認為，透過我們的市場分析和競爭分析，我們認為我們的競爭對手將會落在哪裡，我們認為我們的定位如何，我們對我們所處的位置感到非常滿意。我想說，到目前為止，我們的大部分成長在很大程度上都是透過口耳相傳，以及與非常出色的 FMO 合作夥伴和經紀合作夥伴的合作實現的，我相信他們真正關心我們會員的品質成果。

And I think you can see us, again, as we get bigger and bigger to really develop the brand, which we really haven't done quite yet. And I think that will be an underpinning foundational pillar on really getting this to be viral. And I'm actually looking forward to that.

而且我想您可以再次看到，隨著我們的規模越來越大，我們真正地發展品牌，而我們實際上還沒有做到這一點。我認為這將成為真正讓其流行的基礎支柱。我真的很期待這一點。

All right. Great. Thanks. Well, look forward to hearing more later in the year.

好的。偉大的。謝謝。好吧，期待今年晚些時候聽到更多消息。

Ryan Langston, TD Cowen.

瑞安·蘭斯頓（Ryan Langston），TD Cowen。

Great. Thank you. John, it sounds like you're still pretty confident on growing 20% plus next year and beyond. Just wondering -- I know it's early, but maybe how you're thinking about that split between California and your other markets?

偉大的。謝謝。約翰，聽起來你對明年及以後的成長 20% 以上仍然很有信心。只是好奇——我知道現在還為時過早，但也許您是如何考慮加州和您的其他市場之間的分歧的？

And maybe just given some of the commentary on some of the larger plans recently about plan exits, material benefit reductions, maybe you have an opportunity to actually push that a little bit higher?

也許只是考慮到最近對一些較大計劃中關於計劃退出、物質福利減少的一些評論，也許您有機會將其實際上推高一點？

Yeah. I think it's not either/or in terms of split. The way we look at it is, it's both and, meaning I think our market share in California is still relatively small. And I think getting to 20% in California is still something that I think we can achieve. We're starting to get to certain scale in the existing ex-California businesses where I would say the the broker community is taking note.

是的。我認為從分裂的角度來說，這並不是非此即彼的問題。我們的看法是，兩者兼而有之，這意味著我認為我們在加州的市佔率仍然相對較小。我認為在加州達到 20% 仍然是我們可以實現的。我們現有的前加州業務開始達到一定規模，我想說經紀人社區正在註意到這一點。

And to your point, they're pretty sensitive also to some of the -- it's just the publicly made statements by some of our competitors in terms of benefits and whatnot. So, I feel really good about where we are. I don't think you'll hear us getting off the 20% talk track until we have more visibility into AEP. But I think we're just really well positioned. And keep in mind also, we've always tried to find that right balance between growth and margin expansion.

正如您所說，他們對某些事情也非常敏感——這只是我們的一些競爭對手就利益等方面公開發表的聲明。所以，我對我們現在的狀況感到非常滿意。我認為，在我們對 AEP 有更多了解之前，您不會聽到我們放棄 20% 的談話。但我認為我們的定位確實很有利。還要記住，我們一直試圖在成長和利潤擴張之間找到適當的平衡。

Obviously in '24, it was tilted toward growth. I think the 60% growth was -- I think we called that out right. This year, 28%-ish on the growth side, the membership growth side, 49% or 50% on the revenue side. But we clearly were focused on margin expansion this year.

顯然，在 24 年，它傾向於成長。我認為 60% 的成長率是——我認為我們正確地指出了這一點。今年，會員成長了 28% 左右，收入成長了 49% 或 50%。但我們今年顯然專注於提高利潤率。

So, I think there's another couple of years where we have some of these tailwinds. And the other thing to keep in mind is, and I'll go back to the delivery system is, there might be plans out there with higher star ratings and whatnot.

所以，我認為未來幾年我們還會面臨一些順風。另一件需要記住的事情是，我將回到交付系統，那裡可能會有更高星級的計劃等等。

But their costs are also a function of a lot of the global cat providers. And there's going to be tension, I think, between plans and global cap providers. Our relationships with our global cap providers are pretty sound and pretty good and pretty long term. But even with that, I think we're very well positioned.

但它們的成本也受到許多全球貓供應商的影響。我認為，計劃和全球上限提供者之間將會出現緊張關係。我們與全球上限供應商的關係非常穩固、良好且長期。但即便如此，我認為我們仍處於非常有利的位置。

Got it. And just a quick follow-up and I'm sorry if you've said this publicly. But given the success you had on the Star scores in Arizona, were you actually able to go back and adjust your bids? Or do you just keep that excess and maybe reinvest it back into benefits or wherever in the business?

知道了。只是想快速跟進一下，如果您公開發表這個言論，我深感抱歉。但是考慮到您在亞利桑那州的星空評分中取得的成功，您是否真的能夠回去調整您的出價？或者你只是保留這些盈餘並將其重新投資於福利或業務的任何地方？

Yeah. No, the answer is yes. The answer is yes, and we've made some modifications to the bids. We were allowed to do that. And we won the case, but we had to make sure we validated all that with CMS before we had any press release or anything like that. But during that same time, we had to -- we were given the opportunity to modify the bids for '26.

是的。不，答案是肯定的。答案是肯定的，我們對出價做了一些修改。我們被允許這麼做。我們贏得了這場官司，但在發布任何新聞稿或類似消息之前，我們必須確保與 CMS 驗證了所有這些。但在同一時期，我們必須——我們有機會修改 26 年的出價。

Great. Thanks for all the details. I appreciate it.

偉大的。感謝您提供所有詳細資訊。我很感激。

You got it.

你明白了。

Andrew Mok, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的 Andrew Mok。

Hi. Good evening. I wanted to go back to the $14 million out-of-period benefit in the quarter. I think you grew about 70,000 members last year. So, I think that implies about $200 at least of annual PMPM benefit across that new base. Is that the right way to think about the true-up on a per member basis? And is that something we should be backing out of the earnings jump-off point for next year? Thanks.

你好。晚安.我想回到本季的 1400 萬美元期外福利。我認為你們去年增加了大約 70,000 名會員。因此，我認為這意味著在新的基數上，每年的 PMPM 福利至少為 200 美元。這是按每個成員來考慮補償的正確方法嗎？這是否意味著我們應該放棄明年的獲利起點？謝謝。

Yeah. So, I'll start with the second part first. This will be and it's a normal course part of our business. We wanted to provide some transparency in the normal course part of our business because it was sizable and we needed you, the investor to understand how the quarter came through. But it is normal course.

是的。因此，我將首先從第二部分開始。這將是我們業務的正常組成部分。我們希望在業務的正常過程中提供一定的透明度，因為它規模很大，我們需要您，投資者，了解本季的情況。但這是正常現象。

So, as we grow and we take a conservative stance on new members, we anticipate this will continue. We just can't predict the magnitude of it. I think your math is probably a little too simplified, but maybe a different way to think about it is we were very, very close -- when we do loyal forecasting for RAF, we're very, very close. But we could be a couple of points off on the new members just because we're being conservative. And so, you could think about a relatively large cohort.

因此，隨著我們的成長以及我們對新成員採取保守立場，我們預計這種情況將會持續下去。我們只是無法預測它的嚴重程度。我認為你的數學可能有點過於簡單了，但也許換一種思考方式，我們非常非常接近——當我們對英國皇家空軍進行忠實預測時，我們非常非常接近。但由於我們比較保守，因此在接納新成員時可能會有幾點偏差。因此，你可以考慮一個相對較大的群體。

I think your number is too high. And then think about it in terms of a marginal percentage. It's not big, big numbers. It's marginal percentages. But nonetheless, it was big enough that made the difference for us.

我認為你的數字太高了。然後用邊際百分比來思考。這不是很大，很大的數字。這是邊際百分比。但儘管如此，它還是足夠大，為我們帶來了不同。

Got it. So, the gross adds is probably higher than that number. Understood. And maybe just a quick follow-up on the share count since that has a couple of moving pieces with the positive EPS in the quarter. I think the dilutive share count increased from 193 million to 209 million in the quarter.

知道了。因此，總增幅可能高於該數字。明白了。也許只是對股票數量進行快速跟進，因為這與本季的正每股收益有幾個變動因素。我認為本季稀釋股份數量從 1.93 億股增加到 2.09 億股。

And I think that excludes about $7.5 million of anti-dilutive stock options and another $26 million of anti-dilutive converts. So, is 243 million shares the right way to think about the fully diluted shares like once those instruments are in the money? I'm guessing that's why they're not included in the share count now. Thanks.

我認為這還不包括約 750 萬美元的反稀釋性股票選擇權和另外 2,600 萬美元的反稀釋性轉換股票。那麼，一旦這些工具變成貨幣，2.43 億股是否是考慮完全稀釋股份的正確方式？我猜這就是為什麼他們現在沒有被計入股票數量的原因。謝謝。

Yeah. Why don't we -- rather than do this on the call, we can circle back on the right math. We want to make sure you got the convert right and all the other components right.

是的。我們為什麼不——而不是在電話裡這樣做，我們可以回到正確的數學。我們希望確保您的轉換正確並且所有其他組件都正確。

Okay, sounds good. Thank you.

好的，聽起來不錯。謝謝。

Jessica Tassan, Piper Sandler.

傑西卡·塔桑、派珀·桑德勒。

Hi, guys. Thank you for taking the question and congrats on the extremely strong quarter. As we think about the outside of California markets reaching critical mass, can you give us an update on the margin maturation framework for new member cohorts? So just what does year one look like two, three, four, five?

嗨，大家好。感謝您回答這個問題，並祝賀本季業績表現強勁。當我們考慮加州以外的市場達到臨界規模時，您能否向我們介紹新成員群體的利潤成熟框架的最新情況？那麼第一年、第二年、第三年、第四年、第五年是什麼樣子的呢？

Any acceleration in the timeline to peak margins or new care delivery innovations to take you above and beyond historical peak contribution margins? Anything maybe to flag in this 2024 outcomes report or otherwise? Thanks.

有沒有加快利潤高峰的時間表或新的醫療服務創新，讓您超越歷史高峰貢獻利潤率？2024 年成果報告中或其他地方有什麼需要標記的嗎？謝謝。

Yeah. Jess, this is Jim. Thanks for the question. And we do track the maturation of our cohorts and we've talked in the past about year one being in the 89% and driving much lower over time. And as we look at this, it's been actually relatively stable.

是的。傑西，這是吉姆。謝謝你的提問。我們確實追蹤了我們的群體的成熟度，我們在過去談到第一年的比例為 89%，並且隨著時間的推移，這一比例會大大降低。從我們的角度來看，它實際上是相對穩定的。

I think that's one of the hallmarks of our performance this year. I mean, we have executed really well against a dynamic backdrop where we've got 50% of our members in year one or year two cohorts. And so, I think the message underneath that is, we're tracking quite well on these early maturities. But there's not a giant distinction in any one given year for a year one. It's been pretty consistent.

我認為這是我們今年表現的標誌之一。我的意思是，在動態背景下，我們的表現確實很好，我們有 50% 的會員處於第一年或第二年的隊列。所以，我認為這背後的訊息是，我們對這些早期成熟產品的追蹤相當到位。但任何一年與第一年之間並沒有太大的差異。它一直非常一致。

Got it. Thank you. And then, I was hoping maybe you could just help us understand California's effort to promote these Exclusively Aligned Enrollment or EAE D-SNPs. Does this mean anything for Alignment? And it appears it's not impacting you, obviously, in 2025, but just interested to know what the 2026 expansion of these plans and automatic enrollment could mean for Alignment, if anything? Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。然後，我希望您能幫助我們了解加州為推廣這些專屬入學或 EAE D-SNP 所做的努力。這對於對齊來說意味著什麼？顯然，這不會對您在 2025 年造成影響，但我只是想知道這些計劃在 2026 年的擴展和自動註冊對 Alignment 意味著什麼？謝謝。

Yeah, Jess, it's John. Yeah, we've been managing through this issue for the last three years. And at the end of the day, what's happening is, members don't want to be forced into Medicaid networks at the end of the day. And they're actually choosing to opt out in many cases and to join Alignment.

是的，傑西，我是約翰。是的，過去三年我們一直在解決這個問題。而最終的情況是，會員們並不想最終被迫加入醫療補助網絡。事實上，在許多情況下，他們選擇退出並加入 Alignment。

And it's actually a point of contention that we have in Washington and that we really want to advocate choice; choice for seniors and to force a senior into a plan through these Aligned Networks that happens to be [Medicaid-centric] with low stars, low reimbursement, low benefits is not our idea of choice. And frankly, we think the members have voted with their feet, and they're working very closely with us. So, I don't expect any erosion of that in '26.

這實際上是我們在華盛頓的一個爭論點，我們確實想提倡選擇；老年人的選擇，並強迫老年人透過這些對齊網絡接受一個恰好是 [以醫療補助為中心] 的低星級、低報銷、低福利的計劃，這不是我們選擇的理念。坦白說，我們認為成員們已經用腳投票了，他們正在與我們密切合作。因此，我預計 26 年這一趨勢不會受到任何削弱。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Jonathan Yong, UBS.

瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的喬納森楊 (Jonathan Yong)。

Congrats on the results here, and I'll make sure I don't ask a joke question here. But just going back to the bid component of it, did you guys -- I don't know if I heard that, I may have missed it, but did you guys mention what you went in with for your 2026 bids in terms of trends given I think the comment was, everyone else is looking at mid-to-high single digit trend or 10%-plus.

恭喜你所取得的成績，我會確保不會在這裡問一個開玩笑的問題。但回到競標部分，你們——我不知道我是否聽說過，我可能錯過了，但你們有沒有提到你們在 2026 年競標時的趨勢，因為我認為評論是，其他人都在關注中高個位數趨勢或 10% 以上。

Yeah, Jonathan, no, we're like specifically not going to comment on anything related to the bids, just for competitive reasons.

是的，喬納森，不，我們特別不會對與投標相關的任何內容發表評論，只是出於競爭的原因。

Okay, understood. And then, just given one of the larger value-based care provider who is out there is talking about walking away from risk or partial risk contracts due to issues in their business. I wouldn't think that this impacts your California market, but are you seeing more providers taking that tact ex-California? Thanks.

好的，明白了。然後，鑑於一家較大的基於價值的護理提供者正在談論由於業務問題而放棄風險或部分風險合約。我認為這不會影響你們的加州市場，但你們是否看到更多供應商在加州以外採取這種策略？謝謝。

Are you talking about PPO products specifically?

您具體談論的是 PPO 產品嗎？

Whether it'd be PPO or even the HMO where providers just are not able to absorb the risk that they're taking on.

無論是 PPO 還是 HMO，提供者都無法承擔他們所承擔的風險。

Yeah. I don't see that affecting us. I'm not exactly sure what you're referencing, but I think, thematically, you're seeing a lot of margin pressure down at the value-based care provider global cap entity level.

是的。我認為這不會影響到我們。我不太清楚您指的是什麼，但我認為，從主題上看，您看到基於價值的護理提供者全球上限實體層面的利潤壓力很大。

And I've said this for the last couple of years that it's -- this model creates inherent abrasion between the plan and the global cap provider when there is compression in premiums. And so, when you take in the tighter stars and the phasing of V28, there's just not enough money, so -- to push down to these global cap providers.

過去幾年我一直在說，當保費受到壓縮時，這種模式會在計劃和全球上限提供者之間造成固有的摩擦。因此，當你考慮到更嚴格的恆星和 V28 的分階段時，就沒有足夠的資金，所以 - 將其推向這些全球上限提供者。

And they're tightening up on the whole coding thing. So, that does not surprise me at all. Thus, the differential core competency of actually managing the care and managing the risk is something that we've really focused on with AVA and Care Anywhere.

他們正在加強整個編碼工作。所以，這一點也不令我驚訝。因此，我們在 AVA 和 Care Anywhere 中真正關注的是實際管理護理和管理風險的差異化核心競爭力。

And as I mentioned before, we're now doing that in concert with some of these medical groups that historically were taking global cap. And so, it's a paradigm shift driven by the necessity to be much more integrated.

正如我之前提到的，我們現在正與一些歷史上佔據全球主導地位的醫療集團合作這項工作。因此，這是一種由更一體化的必要性所驅動的典範轉移。

And that's a strategic advantage to us. Not sure I answered your question, but I think thematically, that's what I see.

這對我們來說是一個戰略優勢。我不確定我是否回答了你的問題，但我認為從主題上來說，這就是我所看到的。

Okay. Great. Thanks.

好的。偉大的。謝謝。

Whit Mayo, Leerink Partners.

惠特·梅奧 (Whit Mayo)，Leerink Partners。

Hey. Thanks. Any updated numbers that you can share on your membership engagement with new members with Care Anywhere? I'm not sure how that compares to prior years.

嘿。謝謝。您可以分享您與 Care Anywhere 新會員的會員互動情況的任何最新數據嗎？我不確定這與前幾年相比如何。

I think we're incrementally better. And we've kind of gotten it up from the 50-ish percentiles closer to the 60-ish percentile range. I got to be honest, I'm not happy with that. We should be at least 70% to 75% engaged. And given the, I'd say, some of the operational changes we're making to engage them more, I think that's possible.

我認為我們正在逐漸進步。我們已經將其從 50 左右的百分位數提高到了 60 左右的百分位數範圍。我必須說實話，我對此並不高興。我們的參與度至少應達到 70% 到 75%。而且考慮到我們正在進行的一些營運變革，以便更多地吸引他們的參與，我認為這是可能的。

I think that's -- for we getting to those kind of metrics, it is possible. And again, it links to how we work with the IPAs and what we delegate to them and what we don't delegate to them. And I think there's upside opportunity there. It's a very insightful question, but we're still right around 60%-ish.

我認為——對我們來說，達到這些指標是可能的。再次強調，這與我們如何與 IPA 合作以及我們委託給他們什麼和不委託給他們什麼有關。我認為這裡面存在著上升的機會。這是一個非常有見地的問題，但我們的理解仍然在 60% 左右。

Okay. Last one, John. I know you don't have a perfect crystal ball, but how are you thinking about Stars this year for the industry?

好的。最後一個，約翰。我知道你沒有完美的水晶球，但你認為今年的明星對這個行業來說意味著什麼？

We feel good. We, organizationally, feel good about where we are. And I don't have visibility to what everyone else is doing. And frankly, that's what we're all waiting for. The kind of the raw scores that we've got, we feel really good about.

我們感覺很好。從組織角度來說，我們對目前的狀況感到滿意。我也不知道其他人都在做什麼。坦白說，這正是我們都在等待的。對於我們所獲得的原始分數，我們感到非常滿意。

And I think it will be distinctly better than last year. By how much? I'm not sure. I'm pretty comfortable we're going to be at least four pretty much in all markets. Question is, can we get above that in a few select markets is the way we're looking at it. But I don't know what others are doing.

我認為今年的情況會比去年明顯好。多少？我不知道。我非常有信心，我們將在所有市場佔據至少四席。問題是，我們能否在少數特定市場中實現這一目標？這是我們所關注的。但我不知道其他人在做什麼。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

John Ransom, Raymond James.

約翰·蘭塞姆、雷蒙·詹姆斯。

Hey. John, just for the record, I've never liked Whit because he stole my question, so I'm going to improvise a better question than he had, which is, specifically on Stars, and I kid, I love Whit. There is all these different measures. As you drill down into the multiple measures, where did you see the opportunity to continue to improve and maybe give yourself even more cushion against any sort of surprise on the negative side?

嘿。約翰，順便說一下，我從來都不喜歡惠特，因為他偷了我的問題，所以我要即興提出一個比他更好的問題，也就是關於星星的問題，我開玩笑的說，我喜歡惠特。有所有這些不同的措施。當您深入研究多項措施時，您認為哪些機會可以繼續改進，並可能為自身提供更多緩衝，以應對任何意外的負面因素？

It's CAPS. I mean we're like 5 stars on pretty much everything except CAPS. And if you put in context the operations of transparency, visibility and control, those concepts that lead to durability, we've delegated a lot of the things that are related to care coordination, access to care, which really is something that our IPAs are accountable for and responsible for.

它是大寫的。我的意思是，除了 CAPS 之外，我們幾乎在所有方面都獲得了 5 顆星。如果你把透明度、可見性和控制力這些能夠帶來持久性的概念放在一起，我們會發現，我們已經委託了很多與護理協調、獲得護理相關的事情，而這些實際上是我們的 IPA 應該負責的事情。

And so, we're working with them now to kind of implement a much more cohesive care routing and care navigation preservice capability so that, for example, if an individual wants to see a specialist, a cardiologist, the cardiologist is 90 days out, we got to give that beneficiary an alternative and say, here's a preferred provider that's got a 5-star -- another 5-star cardiologist that you can see in a week.

因此，我們現在正在與他們合作，實施一種更有凝聚力的護理路線和護理導航售前服務能力，這樣，例如，如果一個人想看專科醫生，心臟病專家，而心臟病專家要 90 天后才能到，我們就給受益人一個替代方案，並說，這裡有一個首選的提供者，有一位 5 星級的心臟病專家，你可以在一周內見到另一位 5 星級的心臟病專家，你可以在一周內見到另一位心臟病專家。

That kind of integration with what we do with the IPAs in California, I think, will yield better star ratings across the board and yield even more surpluses to some of these providers. So, again, everybody wins for the benefit of that beneficiary.

我認為，與我們在加州對 IPA 所做的整合將會帶來更好的整體星級評定，並為其中一些供應商帶來更多的盈餘。因此，再次強調，受益人從中獲益，每個人都獲益。

And so, when you're grading these providers, we always have this debate about what's quality in health care. How do you -- like qualitatively, do you think your 5-star, 4-star scores, do you think those really get the job done in terms of defining this elusive concept of quality?

因此，當您對這些提供者進行評級時，我們總是會就醫療保健的品質進行爭論。從品質角度來說，您認為您的 5 星、4 星評分在定義這個難以捉摸的品質概念方面真的起到了作用嗎？

That's kind of a trick question, JR. I mean it's -- right, I mean it kind of is, but also, I think there are enough loopholes in it that kind of create some problems. But I think it's going to be something that CMS looks at. And then the question specifically was, well, how and what are they going to do to look at quality. And we're spending time in Washington, making sure they have the benefit of knowing what and how we are doing MA relative to everybody else.

這是一個有點刁鑽的問題，JR。我的意思是——對，我的意思是它有點像，但同時，我認為它有足夠的漏洞，可能會造成一些問題。但我認為這是 CMS 會關注的事情。那麼具體問題是，他們將如何以及做什麼來保證品質。我們在華盛頓花了大量時間，確保他們能夠了解我們相對於其他人在 MA 方面所做的工作和方式。

And this gets back to your last question is they're listening because I think they view us as differential. And they view us -- we've built this business based on what Dr. McClellan intended it to be, which is very simply to provide the highest quality at the lowest cost, thereby giving the best value for beneficiaries. And --

這又回到了你的最後一個問題：他們之所以在聽，是因為我認為他們認為我們是不同的。他們認為我們——我們是根據麥克萊倫博士的意願建立這項業務的，很簡單，就是以最低的成本提供最高品質的服務，從而為受益者帶來最大的價值。和--

Well, you and I -- we're at the end of an hour-long call kind of riffing, but I'm amazed, frankly, that the advocates can't answer the simple question. Is it cheaper? I mean, we know beneficiaries love it. You have extra benefits. But there's a lot of conflicting data about is it a good deal for the taxpayers.

好吧，你和我——我們剛剛結束一個小時的通話，但坦率地說，我很驚訝倡導者無法回答這個簡單的問題。便宜嗎？我的意思是，我們知道受益人喜歡它。您還有額外福利。但對於這對納稅人來說是否是一筆好交易，存在著許多相互矛盾的數據。

And if it's -- if you can't clearly say that it's not, it just opens up all kind of room for people on both sides of the political aisle to say, well, we need to keep cutting this. And that to me is where the efficacy has fallen short a bit is, we have MedPAC saying one thing, we have another study saying another thing. And I'm like -- I'm amazed the industry has not coalesced around a simple message about the relative cost.

如果是 — — 如果你不能明確地說不是這樣，那麼政治兩邊的人就都有可能說，好吧，我們需要繼續削減這項開支。對我來說，這就是功效稍有不足的地方，MedPAC 說了一套，而另一項研究卻說了另一套。我很驚訝，整個產業竟然沒有就相對成本這簡單訊息達成共識。

Yeah. No. I think V28 is -- took a meat clever to that question. And I think the --

是的。不。我認為 V28 是——對這個問題很聰明。我認為--

Yeah. And the data lags, right? I mean, it lags.

是的。數據滯後，對嗎？我的意思是，它滯後了。

Well, yeah, but the specific data that's lagging is the data related to the supplemental benefits. I think CMS, probably they want more data to say that if you're providing a supplemental benefits, it is yielding some kind of health benefit for the beneficiary. I mean I think that's -- if you carve out the dollars that are being attributed to supplementals, it's not -- the cost is not more. So, I'm getting the hook, John, so --

嗯，是的，但滯後的具體數據是與補充福利相關的數據。我認為 CMS 可能需要更多數據來證明，如果你提供補充福利，它會為受益人帶來某種健康福利。我的意思是，我認為——如果你把補充費用扣除掉，成本就不會更高。所以，我明白了，約翰，所以--

All right. Thank you. Me, too. See you.

好的。謝謝。我也是。再見。

Thanks.

謝謝。

John Stansel, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的約翰·斯坦塞爾。

Great. Thanks for fitting me in. Can you just, I think, talk about what was driving the Part D favorability in the first half? I think in the first quarter, you talked about non-well income subsidies being kind of a pressure point. It would be great to hear about what's driving the favorability. And then it sounds like it flips in your expectations for the second half and what's driving kind of the reversal of the favorability? Thanks.

偉大的。謝謝你幫我安排。我想，您能否談談上半年推動 D 部分受歡迎程度的原因是什麼？我認為在第一季度，您談到非富裕收入補貼是一種壓力點。很高興聽到是什麼推動了人們的喜愛。那麼聽起來您對下半年的預期發生了逆轉，是什麼導致了這種好感度的逆轉？謝謝。

Yeah. And it's pretty consistent with what Thomas had talked about in Q1. We had been pretty prudent in terms of taking a stance for the full year. So, in some ways, we were outperforming based on a low bar that we had set in terms of what we were forecasting and what our guidance was. So there's a little bit of like just making sure we got it right was a little bit of how we outperformed.

是的。這與托馬斯在第一季談到的內容非常一致。我們對全年的立場一直非常謹慎。因此，從某種程度上來說，我們的表現超越預期，因為我們在預測和指導方面設定了一個較低的標準。因此，有點像確保我們做對了，這就是我們如何表現優異的原因。

And there was a little bit of favorability in Q2. We called out a couple of million. But I think as it pertains to the second half, we just want to make sure that we are not surprised on the downside by any kind of gross drug cost escalation, and we talked a little bit about the trend there. So, this is just being -- I think we're saying we want to make sure we've got enough cushion in the second half to deliver on the full year. So we're sticking with our full year.

第二季的情況稍微好一點。我們呼籲了幾百萬。但我認為，就下半年而言，我們只是想確保我們不會因任何形式的藥品總成本上漲而感到驚訝，我們已經談論了一些趨勢。所以，這只是——我想我們說的是，我們希望確保下半年有足夠的緩衝來實現全年目標。因此，我們堅持全年計劃。

A little bit of the favorability is getting moved into the back to provide cushion against the things that we typically have talked about, which is, there are certain classes of drugs that have trended higher. And there's utilization in a couple of the non-low-income populations where they got a smaller maximum out of pocket. And so, utilization can bite you there. So we're just -- I think it's really just making sure we're being cautious. But again, our Part D margin is very, very consistent.

一些有利因素被移到了後面，以緩衝我們通常談論的事情，即某些類別的藥物價格呈上升趨勢。在一些非低收入者中，他們的自付費用最高限額較低。因此，利用率可能會對你造成不利影響。所以我們只是——我認為這實際上只是為了確保我們保持謹慎。但同樣，我們的 D 部分利潤非常非常一致。

That's different from others. It's consistent with our overall MBR. And so, as we navigate this interesting year, our first year with post IRA, I think we're feeling pretty good that we can deliver on the -- kind of the overall forecast that we had.

這和其他人不同。它與我們的整體 MBR 一致。因此，當我們度過這個有趣的一年，也就是 IRA 之後的第一年時，我認為我們感覺非常好，因為我們能夠實現我們之前所做的整體預測。

Great. And then I know it's recent, but the -- with the national average monthly benchmarks out on Monday, any kind of really first-cut thoughts there on what it means for '26?

偉大的。然後我知道這是最近的事，但是——週一將公佈全國平均月度基準數據，對於 26 年意味著什麼，您有什麼初步想法嗎？

Yeah. We're just not going to comment on bids. I think it's -- the benchmarks that came out were, I think, in a lot of ways, predicted by many in the industry, but we just aren't going to comment on how we think about it in terms of bids. I think the benchmark had called in no surprise to the industry.

是的。我們只是不會對出價發表評論。我認為——從很多方面來說，出爐的基準都是業內許多人預測到的，但我們不會評論我們如何從投標的角度看待它。我認為這個基準對於業界來說並不令人意外。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, I am showing no further questions in the queue. And that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，隊列中沒有其他問題了。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。