First Majestic Silver Corp (AG) 2013 Q4 法說會逐字稿

(Audio in progress) At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Keith Neumeyer, President and CEO of First Majestic Silver. Please go ahead.

Thank you, and welcome everyone. Before I say anything further, I'll just introduce Connie Lillico, our Corporate Secretary, to read the disclaimer.

Thanks, Keith. Prior to us beginning today, I'll read our disclaimer and forward-looking statements. Certain statements contained in this conference call regarding the Company and its operations constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the United States Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and Section 21-E of the United States Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as amended.

All statements that are not historical facts, including, without limitation, statements regarding future estimates, plans, objectives, assumptions, or expectations of future performance constitute forward-looking statements. We caution you that such forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and future events to differ materially from those anticipated in such statements.

Such risks and uncertainties include fluctuations in precious metal prices; unpredictable results of exploration activities; uncertainties inherent in the estimation of mineral reserves and resources; fluctuations in the cost of goods and services; problems associated with exploration and mining operations; changes in legal, social or political conditions in the jurisdiction where the Company operates; lack of appropriate funding; and other risk factors as discussed in the Company's filings with the Canadian Securities regulatory agencies.

Resources and production goals and forecasts may be based on data in position to support them, and the Company expressly disclaims any obligation to update any forward-looking statements.

Back to you, Keith.

Okay. Quite a mouthful. Thanks, Connie. On the call today, we -- in addition to Connie Lillico, we also have Ray Polman, our CFO, who is available for questions. We also have Martin Palacios, our CIO, who is also available. We also have Ramon Davila, our Chief Operating Officer; and Salvador Garcia, our VP of Operations on the phone from Durango. Due to technical situations, they won't be available for questions. And, also, Todd Anthony, our Manager of Investor Relations, is here. I am currently in Miami. I am at the BMO mining conference that just ended today.

I'd like to first apologize for having to delay today's news release. We had disclosed that we were going to put out the news release prior to the opening of trading today. That decision was changed as a result of my meetings here in Florida. I didn't want to have new numbers out while I was presenting -- because of our PowerPoint was obviously only covering Q3 and -- well, actually Q2 and Q3, and the Q4 numbers were more relevant, and that have forced me to change the PowerPoint, which, obviously, I wasn't able to do on such short notice.

So we then delayed the news release by three hours, and it's now obviously out on the wires. I hope all of you have seen it.

Obviously a great year. 2013, for those of you who don't know, it was our tenth-year anniversary. We celebrated that. And we actually became a Senior Silver Producer breaking through the 10 million-ounce pure silver mark, which is obviously quite the achievement.

We've now got our eyes to become a 20 million-ounce producer over the next three to five years. There is some caveats in that number, obviously. We need silver prices to probably improve. And I don't want to go back to the equity markets, so we haven't raise money since September 2009; and I don't really want to go back to markets and raise additional money for our growth. I think our future growth can be built through cash flows, as we have done in the past. At least, for the last five years. I'd like to continue that.

So, I won't really cover too much on the news release. I think it's pretty well self-explanatory -- over 10 million ounces, as I said. So, what I will do is open the call up right now. So for those of you who are on the line, if you wish to ask questions of management, please identify yourself. And we will prompt some of you as well. We can do that from our end, so please go ahead.

(Operator Instructions). Chris Lichtenheldt, Dundee Capital Markets.

Just a few questions, actually. First on Del Toro. In your guidance you talk about 2014 recoveries expected around 72%. And I know in the original technical studies, you were something just over 80% for the cyanidation circuit, I believe. Are you just being conservative, or is there anything in there that is hindering the recovery level?

Well, it's early days at Del Toro, so I think that's more of a conservative approach than anything. Currently, the recoveries are even lower than that. The cyanidation circuit has only really been running for a quarter. It was only deemed commercial on January 1, so there's a lot of tweaking going on still at the mill.

It's probably not going to be optimal, I wouldn't think, until the third or fourth quarter this year. So I would hope to see recoveries higher than that, but for guidance purposes I decided to use that number.

Okay, that's great. And, secondly, just moving to Guitarra -- I really appreciate the detailed guidance you guys give on per-ounce cost and sustaining an expansionary CapEx. And if we look at Guitarra, I think you have cash costs plus sustaining CapEx per ounce of nearly $20 and then a further $9 or so -- sorry -- $6 to $7 of expansionary CapEx. So obviously, it doesn't look like the mine would generate in any free cash this year. Can you talk a little bit about the outlook as to when you would expect that to start generating noticeable free cash?

Yes. This is an old mine, and it's been in production through five different owners for the last five years. And it is going to take some time. We have to go in and basically rebuild the entire mine, and it's not a one-year process. It's a three- to five-year process. And I look at this asset similar to how I look at La Parrilla back in 2004 through 2006 when we were just ramping it up. And it takes time to do that, and that's why the expansionary capital that's showing up in our guidance is primarily development, because it's in desperate need of the development for proper mining techniques.

Okay. So I guess the plans are still to go to the 1000 tonnes? You hope to submit that permit this year, I guess? And you will spend this and go ahead with everything even before the permit comes in? Is that right? You are still optimistic on the permit, I guess, is my question.

Well, the permitting process hasn't started yet. And as in our PowerPoint presentation, I thought you had already been advised that we're not going to be permitting La Guitarra this year. We're going to actually postpone that until 2015 unless the environment changes; we could obviously change that view.

But we're going to leave it steady-state, but develop -- but the development will continue at this pace for the next few years.

Okay, sounds good. And then just lastly, just as a quick housekeeping, I want to confirm -- there is going to be no tailings process at Encantada this year. You're just into fresh ore?

That's right. That was suspended in January. So we're just doing fresh ore now. The target is for that 3000 tonnes a day fresh ore, so look for great improvement. Look for recovering improvement. Cost per tonne, obviously, is affected, but the cost per ounce shouldn't -- remain relatively the same.

Okay, that's it for me. Thanks a lot.

Dave Forster, Merrill Lynch.

Just building on that last question that Chris had there on La Encantada, what is -- has that been factored into the 2014 La Encantada production guidance and cash cost? Or is that something that would -- the fact that the tailings are going to be going through -- improve the production and lower the cash cost?

Oh, of course. Because this decision has been -- was made almost a year ago, and we have been putting dissemination out along this line. The mix was always 50-50, or at least going back the last five years. Due to the current environment, however, when the metal price environment changed, we started to change that mix. And we went to 70% mine ore. Then we went to 80% mine ore. Now we are at 100% mine ore. So we've -- and that is included in the guidance and -- so.

Okay, thanks for that. And on La Guitarra, just talking about the permits coming -- or being sought after in 2015, once you do have the permits in hand, when -- how soon would production come from that additional capacity?

In our current disclosure, we are saying 2017 is when production would kick in. It would be nice to do it earlier but, as I said, we -- I look at 2014 as a cash accumulation year. We just finished two years of very aggressive spending, and millions of dollars have gone out the door to get us to where we are right now.

We have obviously experienced dramatic growth over the last two years, and it's very exciting, obviously, for us to see this growth. But we have to step back now, and we have to take a bit of a wait-and-see approach.

What happened in 2013 just shocked everyone, and it wasn't -- it was a big surprise for us. And we had to move very quickly to start cutting our expenditures. And I didn't want to shut down our four construction projects over that two-year period; I wanted to keep those going. So we had to attack things like development and exploration and so on. But the San Martin spend is ending in the next few weeks after spending $14 million over the last couple of years there.

The Del Toro spend ends in May this year after spending over $140 million there over that period time. So we are going to -- I want to see treasury growth. It's very important to see treasury growth. And I want to leave this year with more cash in the bank than we have right now; it's very critical. And when I have comfort on our cash position and I have -- and we see some stability in the metal prices, then we will revisit some of these assets and start investing again.

But we've got five targets for investment to get us up to the 20 million ounce target, which we have over the next few years.

Okay. And also on La Guitarra, the impairment that was taken there at year-end, was that all driven by a lower silver price assumption, or are there any other factors that are at work?

Ray, you want to take that?

Yes, thanks for the question, Dave. The answer is yes. That was primarily driven by silver prices and just working through the revised economics in the impairment models to take into consideration not only the current year but the investment plans into the future, and just doing a discounted cash flow to come up with a revised carrying value for mostly for the change -- the write-off of the goodwill at La Guitarra and a write-down of some of the exploration properties that came along with the acquisition of Silvermex.

Okay, okay. And if I can just ask one last question, this one on Del Toro. The cash costs were a little bit elevated this quarter. And, reading through the news release, it looked like it was power line delays as well as additional smelting and refining costs. Of the [$12.16] per ounce cash cost, can you break it down how much was related to the power line delays and how much was related to the smelting and refining?

And, also, just the second part of the question, when would you expect the refining costs to improve? Do you have an idea there, or are you already seeing improvements in January and February of this year?

Ray, you want to talk to that one or would you like me to do it?

Let me take a quick stab at it, Keith. What I would say is if you are looking at the elevated cash costs at Del Toro, I would say perhaps 2/3 of that is related to the additional energy costs that we're incurring by using a set of power plants and consuming diesel to get our source of power. And the other 1/3 would be related to additional penalties for impurities in the early-stage ore that's been running through the plant. You could add anything you'd like to that, Keith.

Yes, I am glad you brought up the impurities, because this is early stages for this operation. As I said earlier in the call, it's going to be a couple of quarters before we see this mill operating at optimal levels. And we've -- and particularly in the first few quarters, we were just using all the above ore -- above-ground ore that we had mined over the last couple of years. And so the mine plan needs to be refined. The blending needs to be refined. The metallurgy needs to be refined. So there is a number of things that have to go on over the next couple of quarters to really change the smelting cost and then -- well, the whole cost structure.

Just going back to the energy for one sec, Del Toro's energy costs are about 30% of the total cost. And as a result of the power lines getting finally hooked up, in, we are hoping June, that will reduce our energy costs by 50%. So it's a big input.

Okay, thanks for that detail. Much appreciated. And that's it for me. So, thanks, Keith and Ray.

Adam Graf, Cowen Securities.

Just a quick question, Keith, regarding the New Mexican royalties. Where are you guys accounting for the royalty in your guidance? Is it in the cash cost? Are you guys calling in a tax and excluding it from the cash cost?

The 0.5% is in the cash cost, because that is technically a royalty. And -- hold on a second here -- so was this (inaudible) sales is included? (multiple speakers). Okay, so $0.12 per ounce is included in the cash cost number. The actual 7.5% would not be included.

According to the World Gold Council, which for whatever reason, they say that taxes are not supposed to be part of your all-in sustaining cost, yet they put non-cash items in there like stock-based compensation and accretion and amortization, which, quite honestly, I would take those out.

Yes, personally I would call it a royalty, but that's just me. Question for you, again, regarding that -- we have heard some of your competitors in Mexico looking to switch to contract miners in order to try to increase the expense side and reduce that tax. Is there any opportunity there at your operations to try to reduce that 7.5% tax on EBITDA?

I don't want to get too cute. I think that -- I've obviously seen the same information that you have seen, and my view is that if too many companies start getting too cute, the government will just change the laws. And it costs a lot of money to change your corporate structure, and I am not really of the view that we should be spending millions of dollars to change our structure in Mexico in order to avoid the tax.

This tax is effectively increasing us from 29% to about 34% on an effective basis, and we can live with that. Some of these costs will be pushed off to other people. We can push some of these costs away.

We have reduced our payrolls in Mexico. We were actually at 4600 employees back in January of 2013, where we ended the year at 4100 employees; and we are looking for additional cuts. We hope to have that number reduced even further throughout this year.

So we are -- and it's right across the board. It's not just mining. It's all companies across the board are doing the same thing. So I personally think it's back-frying on the Mexican government a little bit, because corporations are laying off 5% to 10% of their entire workforce, and I think it will hurt Mexico more than it's going to hurt us.

And on a different note, you mentioned, just a few minutes ago, you've got five targets for growth over the next several years. I'm assuming you're talking about internal projects.

Yes, of course. I couldn't talk about M&A activity through a forum like this. I'm including Plomosas, which would be a brand-new mine. It's an ex Grupo Mexico mine. Actually, couple of our senior managers have actually worked in this mine when Grupo was operating it back in the 80s. That is very high-grade gold/silver mine. Quite a nice operation. I personally think that will probably be the next one that we will invest in.

La Luz, again, an old mine, an old Spanish mine that -- 225 million ounces were produced there from 1750 to 1900. It's in the state of San Luis Potosi, so it's somewhat more difficult to permit this one, but we will ultimately eventually get it permitted. And the nice thing about both of these assets is this ore is a very clean ore, so it won't be -- or [letters] in concentrate, it will actually be most probably dore bar.

La Guitarra, we hope to expand that; bring in a cyanidation mill and basically bulldoze down the current floatation facility that we are currently using. And that would obviously double the size there.

Del Toro, we could make the decision to build that shaft and -- because currently our guidance is to run Del Toro at only 2500 tonnes a day. 25% of the capacity through the flotation circuit, which is 500, and 100% of capacity through the cyanidation circuit, which is 2000. We could make the decision sometime in the future to build the shaft and then bring up the flotation circuit through a small capacity of 2000 tonnes a day.

At La Encantada, we are doing some interesting things there as well. We are upgrading the entire crushing area right now to facilitate the growth of -- or the future growth of the underground mine there. And La Parrilla, we've got the underground rail system there, which we are -- the electric rail system, which is -- 1.4 kilometers I think is completed. It's a 5000-metre underground transportation system to transport the ore to the mill.

One that is completed -- we actually had originally hoped to have it done by the end of 2014, but it got caught in our cutbacks. And they won't be now completed until the end of 2016. But when that is completed, we could then look at possibly expanding this operation once again.

So there's lots of places for growth in the Company. It's just a matter of comfort that we're going to see some stability and some treasury growth.

That's great detail, Keith. Thank you very much. Are you guys going to have any plans to release any scoping studies on any of those projects?

Oh, for sure. Plomosas and La Luz both need -- well, La Luz already has a 43-101, but it still needs additional work and additional drilling and so on. And we have to update it before we make that investment. On Plomosas, we will also need a report as well before we make the investment.

Great. Looking forward to those. Thank you very much.

Chris Thompson, Raymond James.

Thanks for the opportunity asking question. And thanks for all the detail, by the way, you guys are presenting as far as guidance is concerned. A couple of quick questions, mainly on the ramp-up. What sort of ramp-up can we expect -- if you can break it down quarter-to-quarter as far as Del Toro and the leach circuit this year.

Ray, do you have that?

With Del Toro, I believe the ramp-up was coming up to 2200 by the end of the year. And currently -- I don't know where we are as of today, but I would think that a lot of that will already be in place by the end of the first quarter. And the -- I think we're up to about 2000 by the end of the second quarter. So the final 200 would be added in the third and fourth quarter.

Thank you. And as far as, I guess, Encantada, the ramp-up there, I guess in the mined ore, I have you at 3000 tonne a day. Is that right by the end of the year?

Yes, that's correct. And we need to -- well, we're not quite there yet. But we will be there prior -- much earlier than the end of the year, I think more like mid-year.

Okay, perfect. Thanks, Keith. And then, finally, just -- I know you guys have been putting off the re-publishing of some of the 43-101 reports. What I am looking for, I guess, is one for Encantada and Parrilla. Any indication of timelines for those this year?

Well, Encantada is going to be the first one. The 43-101 on that mine is probably our oldest, and it's really -- I think there's a lot of drilling that's gone on, and there's a lot of good news that we could really talk about around the reserves and resources with this mine. We really need to get the report out.

AMEC Has been on-site now, I think, four times -- three or four times, and they are trying to do a cutoff of June 30. I'm not quite sure whether they're going to make the June 30 cutoff. But it normally takes two to three months to get a report out after a cutoff date.

Okay. All right.

The next one would be, most probably, La Parrilla, and the one after that will be La Guitarra. But that one will be -- and AMEC is doing that one and [SRK] is doing La Parrilla. But AMEC needs to finish La Encantada before they can get to La Guitarra.

Yes, and that's probably key. So before the end of the year there, Keith, do you think for Encantada?

Yes, I sure hope so. I would say yes to that. And then, hopefully, for La Parrilla as well.

Perfect. Thanks, guys.

Ovais Habib, Scotiabank.

Most of my questions have been answered. But just, Keith, in terms of what kind of silver price are you looking for just in terms of internally to go ahead with the growth projects that you have in place and go ahead with the development that you plan for the future?

Well, it's more than silver price. I am just looking for stability. If you had told me silver was going to be trading at $20 every day for the next five years, we could build a business around that. And we would make a profit on that, and we could build additional mines with that. Because what happens is the biggest influence on cost is price. So our sustaining cash cost, however, is on its way down, and I think there's room for it to go quite a lot lower.

If we see $20 silver prices consistently for the next year, you're going to see costs drop across the board. We're getting more resumes than we have probably ever gotten five years ago; contractors looking for work. The whole system is in distress right now, and prices are dropping.

So I just want to see some stability, and then I want to see treasury growth. We ended the year last year at $105 million. We ended this past year at about $65 million. I want to see that treasury up back to the $100 million range before we start permitting some of these assets.

And I think it will be -- the question about silver price -- I think that will more impact us. Which how many of these projects do you do at a time? Because we do five things that we could do with our investments over the next two to five years. So which ones we choose first would be a discussion that we do internally and -- or do we do more than one at one time. Do we do a couple at a time?

Thanks a lot, Keith.

Chris Lichtenheldt, Dundee Capital Markets.

I just wanted to follow up on the treasury quickly. You had mentioned a couple of times about finishing the year higher. When we look at the guidance, if you add up all the dollars going out the door, it is mid $17 per ounce. And then some G&A you add on that. And taxes, obviously, and lease payments. It gets pretty close to the silver price. So I'm wondering, in order to add to treasury what you are expecting or how do you accomplish that? And if prices do remain low, can some of that CapEx be cut out again here to try to achieve that?

And then, lastly, as part of that question, I think I noticed in the fourth quarter payables went up. So you might actually have some more outflows in that sense. I just want to get a sense of how to achieve that.

Well, Chris, you could have at least asked me in separate questions. Yes, I just opened up our PowerPoint, and the expansionary capital for 2014 is $45 million. The sustaining capital for 2014 is $61 million. So the expansionary capital, of course some more can be cut. And as things get really ugly, we will obviously start visiting some of those areas to look for the cutting.

But some of these things also -- you don't really want to cut because you could actually start affecting future production. So it's a bit of a juggling act. To have a $100 million budget or $106 million budget for a Company our size, it's a pretty darn lean budget as it is. It's probably our lowest budget in something in the order of five years. So it took a lot of work to get here. But there's always room, and just hopefully it doesn't get to that point.

And we're using $20 silver in our budgets, and I believe we end the year at something (technical difficulty) $50 million in cash. And if we see higher metal prices, obviously that will change.

And you're not really expecting -- or are you expecting any payment from the lawsuit, or is that not really a factor?

No, no. We couldn't budget for that anyways. It's really not even worth commenting on. We are working through it, and we're optimistic that we will get more funds from that lawsuit. But the timing of that is questionable.

Yes, that's fair. I'll leave it there. Thank you.

Howard Flinker, Flinker & Company.

I have a few questions. I wasn't clear. Is that $39 million write-off all because of price, or is there some Mexican tax in there?

Ray.

The $39 million write-down is basically a technical thing created by the IFRS' interpretation of the royalties being a tax, and that's due to timing differences on the assets of the Company. This fictitious number of a deferred tax is created. There is no cash impact of that $38 million, $39 million. It's just something that's created at a point in time.

If the royalty number was increased or reduced, that number would increase or reduce into the future, but it would amortize into the future through a reduction of deferred taxes in the balance sheet in the future. So it is not at all related to real taxes. It's something that's created in the theoretical accounting rule.

Well, don't kid yourself. You're not going to get that money down the road. And the Mexican government will get it. That's why it's deferred. Not today, but it's down the road.

No, I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying. This is not related to what we're actually going to be paying to the Mexican government in the future. It's strictly a difference between the value of something which has no value for tax purposes and a value for book purposes. And it strictly has no impact on any taxes that we will be paying to the government of Mexico in the future.

Okay. Did I -- I came in late, so I didn't see the whole earning release, which I will read momentarily. Do I calculate approximately that your D&A this year will be about $40 million? So that the cash on hand, $55 million plus D&A, would be $95 million, and you have to earn a little money to pay for your CapEx?

You're talking about development and exploration?

Depreciation amortization.

Yes, I think it's fair to say it would remain roughly the same.

The same as?

As 2013.

Oh, even though you have a little more assets at year-end than you had at beginning year, so the average (multiple speakers)?

Yes, a lot of it is also depletion related. It's the value of the mineral properties and (multiple speakers). And I think it's fair to say that it will be roughly the same.

Okay.

But it's about -- it's a non-cash item.

But in calculating old-fashioned cash flow, one could add that back to whatever the earnings are?

Yes, correct.

Okay. And finally, in the abbreviated highlights you have a thing called working capital and income taxes. What is that? About 2/3 of the way down the highlights.

Sorry, I'm not seeing what you are --.

Which bullet is it?

About 10 down on the left-hand side if you go to the number 20.4; and to the right of it, 43.2, you have it classified as working capital and income taxes. I don't understand that classification.

Oh, you are actually in the financial statements? Or are you on the news release?

On the news release. Page 2, where you have that table -- one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 -- 11th highlight.

Oh, I believe what you're looking at is just the working capital line comparing current assets, current liabilities including deferred taxes.

Oh, I see. So that's -- income taxes is part of the working capital. Is that what you mean?

Deferred taxes.

Yes, right.

[It's part of] the pricing.

Deferred loan return taxes. Okay. That's it for now. If I have any more questions, I'll call Todd when I read the rest.

Sure, no problem.

(Operator Instructions). [Andy Schopick], Private Investor.

Thank you very much and thank you for hosting the call. Keith, should I take it that this is not yet going to be a quarterly event?

I'll defer that answer.

Okay. Well, I am happy that you are having it today. A couple of questions. In your opening remarks, Keith, you did mention you are not interested in raising any additional capital. I think you specifically said equity. But should that be interpreted as equity or any debt financing in the foreseeable near-term that you are not inclined to raise any additional capital of any kind?

Well, we currently have a hedge on 30% of our lead and 30% of our zinc with Bank of America. It's actually pretty cheap money. It is 3.3% above LIBOR, and they have offered to go higher. We are currently at 30%, as I said.

I wouldn't want to go too much past 60%, but 50% to 60% is about the max of my comfort level. And that probably would raise us an additional $30 million to $50 million if we did that. And it's not really debt. It's a hedge against our production, obviously, right? So if we ever did want to do something in the way of fundraising for whatever reason, that's where I would go, quite frankly. I wouldn't be doing any kind of straight bank loans or bank debt or any equity.

Okay. Now, in connection with that comment, your profile right now is about 83% silver in 2013, about 5% gold, the balance in lead and zinc. Is that profile -- production profile likely to change materially at all this year or in the next couple of years?

Yes, it's going up right now. It was 90% in 2012, and it dropped because of the flotation circuit being turned on at Del Toro. And now with the cyanidation circuit and the dore bars now being produced at Del Toro, that purity will go back up around 90% again this year.

The silver?

Silver period, yes. It will --.

Okay, so it's going to go up relative to the gold, zinc, and lead contribution?

Yes, on a percentage basis. That's right.

Okay. Also was curious to make sure I understood a comment about effective tax rate. You are anticipating as a direct result of the Mexican tax reform that your tax rate will increase to about 34% this year, up from about 29% previously?

Yes, Ray, you want to grab this one?

I think it might actually go a few points up beyond that as well. We're still working through a number of things with the new Mexican fiscal reforms. The Mexican government is coming out with applied or miscellaneous rules to help interpret how the taxes will be applied next year. And we will opine further on this as we step into the next quarter and get something more substantial from the Mexican government, but I am anticipating it will actually be closer into the 36% to 38% effective rate.

Well, you guys operating in Mexico can't be happy with this. One last thing.

It is going to be harder on the communities than -- the communities themselves are the ones that are going to suffer.

I understand. But it is what it is for now.

In the press release, you have an excellent table commentary about 2014 production outlook and all-in sustaining cost guidance. I was looking through SEDAR and other things on your website to see if I could find a comparable table for the actuals for 2013 in the same format that you provided for 2014 outlook. Is anything like that available, or can it be made available for comparable purposes?

Well, it's very difficult because it's a change of disclosure. And we -- because of the whole industry moving to the sustaining capital method of disclosing this information, versus the old cash cost method, it would be an enormous task to go back and rebuild everything to -- I'm not sure how much benefit it would be even to do it. I'm not sure, Ray, do you have any other comments?

Yes, the only comment I would add is that we went through this process of studying this and commissioned PricewaterhouseCoopers to assist us with defining exactly how you measure the investment in sustaining capital, and that really concluded towards the third quarter of 2013. And going back through the numbers and to the beginning of 2013, we would have to use a lot of subjectivity to redefine investments as either being expansionary or sustaining.

And I don't think it would be the fairest representation what the number is. I would rather look at this on a prospective basis only.

Okay. I understand what you're saying on that component of the table. But certainly above that line, where we are just looking at tonnes processed, silver ounces, et cetera, et cetera, although we probably can reconstruct that the from the published filings, I just wondered whether you are going to present that part of it in a comparable table form to what you have in the press release on the production outlook, and if that would be done.

If you go to page 9 in the financial statements, you will see a table in there, which is probably what you're looking for. We have a mine-by-mine and also a consolidated table.

As I said, I am sure I can reconstruct it.

Well, it's -- we've been doing these same tables for the last several years, so you can go back and look at our previous annual report.

Yes, okay. That's fine, and I do appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Yes, and the highlights are available and have been published both on a consolidated and a mine-by-mine basis with -- I think basically all of the information that we have in this summary guidance table being presented on a quarterly and an annual basis and a (multiple speakers).

Yes, fine. Thanks again.

Few years.

(Operator Instructions).

Unless there is any other questions, I see that there is no one queued up. I can give it a couple of more seconds here to see if someone wants to queue up for a question. If not, we will end this call in a couple of seconds here.

Okay. Well, thank you. I see no one is wanting to ask further questions, so thank you for joining us today. And if you have any further questions, please feel free to contact Todd Anthony at any time. Thank you.

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.