Agnico Eagle Mines Ltd (AEM) 2007 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Agnico-Eagle Mines Second Quarter 2007 Results Webcast Conference call. (Operator instructions). I'd like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded today, Thursday, August 2, 2007, at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time.

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Sean Boyd, Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. Mr. Boyd, please go ahead.

Thanks, operator, and good morning, everyone. And thanks for joining our Q2 '07 conference call. We're going to take you through, certainly, the operations, talk a bit about the projects, just outline some of the news flow over the next several months, as we continue to be very active, not only on the mine-building side, but also on the exploration side.

Just to reiterate at the top, expect no change in sort of our philosophy or our approach to growing our business. Expect us to continue to focus on building value by constructing the projects and by growing our reserve base through an aggressive and large exploration program. The goal continues to be to provide our shareholders with quality production and reserve growth--do that in pro-mining regions, have that fully funded, and still providing the investor with very good exploration upside, and we'll take you through some of the focus and some of the targets of that as well.

For those on the Internet, you can follow all the advancing--the slides, as we move forward. We're just going through the forward-looking statements.

Just on the growth strategy--again, very consistent. No change there. The focus is to grow our gold output. We've got industry leading production growth. We anticipate being able to grow our production five times by 2010, to about the 1.2 million ounce mark. Those--that production growth will be supported by increasing reserves. The reserve position is over 15 million ounces. We have the ability to grow this position, which is already the largest reserve position in the mid-tier. We continue to target the 18 million to 20 million ounce range within the next 18 months.

We've got an excellent track record of growing these reserves, and certainly doing that on a reserve per share basis over many years. What we really have, as we continue to work on these properties and get drill results, is we--we still firmly believe we have the potential to have three or four or five-plus million ounce deposits. We're spending US $40-plus million on exploration. That budget is largely focused on four main projects. All of those deposits are wide open, and those are projects that we are building into mines.

The exploration budget will likely increase--it will likely be in the high [$40 millions], and may approach [$50 million].

On the acquisition side, again--disciplined approach will continue. We're focused on smaller opportunities, and we--as we said recently, we're not in the game to do [$3 billion], to [$4 billion], to [$5 billion] acquisitions. We feel we can add more value by focusing--being disciplined and focusing on those smaller opportunities.

On the cost side, we continue to perform very well. On a per-ounce basis, given our byproduct credits, we're producing gold at extremely negative cash costs. And one of the nice positions to be in, in this market, is certainly with a solid financial position. That's been enhanced this quarter, through the acquisition of Cumberland. We continue to generate good cash flow as well. And even though we spent a lot on our projects, we closed the quarter with almost US $500 million in cash.

As far as corporate highlights, one of the highlights which is not on here was the acquisition--completed the acquisition of Cumberland. So we now have 100% of the Meadowbank project. Earnings, roughly similar to a year ago quarter in '06. Cash flow, very strong at almost US $80 million for the first half of the year--US $136 million, which puts us in position to repeat our cash flow last year, which was well over US $200 million. Cash costs continue to be low--there is four projects under construction. We're looking at approving Pinos Altos next week, as we take that to the board.

And on the safety front, LaRonde continues an excellent track record, with 30 consecutive months without a lost time injury underground at LaRonde. That's tremendous performance, and we'd also like to note that for the first time in the 52-year history of the Quebec mine rescue championships, the team at LaRonde has won for the third year in a row. So that's a tremendous accomplishment, and we'd like to congratulate all of the employees at LaRonde, and particularly, the mine rescue team.

On the operating results, another strong quarter at LaRonde. Development ahead of schedule, dilution within target range, the mill performing well, treated almost 7,500 tonnes a day. We had fairly consistent metal production coming out of LaRonde. We did see an increase in the cost per ton, to CAN $71.00. But about [$4.00 or $5.00] of that was related to the Bousquet stockpile, which had a cost associated with the inventory of about CAN $100.00 a tonne.

We're forecasting full year cost per tonne of about CAN $65.00. That means second half '07 would be about [$63.00] a tonne, as we get the benefit of accelerated development, that we took--we spent some time on in the first six months of the year.

Metal output for '07, flat gold about 240,000 ounces, no change there. Silver up about 4%--we're looking for slight declines in zinc, down about 7%, copper down about 10% as we optimize the ore body at higher prices. We're taking some marginal grade ore which wasn't contemplated to be taken when we did our budget last year, but it allows us to maximize the ore body.

As far as financial results, revenues about flat--earnings up slightly. Earnings per share, down a little bit from the period the year before, but we issued almost 13 million shares on the Cumberland transaction. If we normalize the earnings, there was a foreign exchange transaction loss of about US $8 million, so that's US $0.06 a share, so that would put us into the mid-30s.

And cash flow, very strong, US $80 million as we said, and for the full year--or, for the first half of '07, US $135 million. So, very strong position, which allows us to go forward with an extremely strong balance sheet, with almost US $500 million in cash, no long-term debt. Our common shares outstanding, about 134 million, 135 million, after taking out the last bit of Cumberland. Fully diluted, that number still remains at the 146 million share level.

We have available bank credit of US $300 million, so very liquid balance sheet, and we do anticipate the warrants to mature in November of this year, which would bring in another US $130 million, further strengthening the financial position, allowing us to build out all of our projects.

On the reserve side, strong position. We continue to drill those deposits, continue to drill the resource that's attached to those deposits. In addition to the reserve of over 15 million ounces, we have about six million ounces of resource.

As we indicated in our last exploration update, we continue to drill outside of the reserve resource outline, and continue to hit ore-grade mineralization over mineable [width], so that's why we're--we're comfortable with our target of 18 million to 20 million ounces in the reserve category over the next 18 months.

Moving to the projects. In terms of the focus on the projects and the strategy there, it also remains the same. We do have a regional focus--that is a priority. The focus remains on large ore bodies--ore bodies in pro-mining regions that we can own 100%, and that allows us to take a long-term, very patient approach to creating value. And that's been successful for us up to this point, and we see no reason in changing that approach, or that strategy.

In terms of the production growth, we can see the growth out through 2010, getting us to about the 1.2 million ounce mark. We'll be fine tuning this production growth chart over the next couple of months, as we certainly complete--have completed the Pinos feasibility, so those numbers we can update as we make that feasibility public. We expect to do that next week.

We are also updating the Meadowbank feasibility. It's currently being worked on, in terms of detailed engineering. The new team is also working on it, so that will have an impact. What we're proposing to do is, revise all of our life of mine plans during the budgeting process this November. So that will allow us to fine tune the production profile, and also fine tune the capex, which is on the next schedule.

So we'll be updating that capex next week, as we come out with Pinos Altos. We'll also be updating, as we look at--have more detailed engineering work done on the Meadowbank project. We will also be updating that for foreign exchange movements, where we've had some impact, as we've seen some movements in the local currencies against the U.S. dollar, which impacts the U.S. dollar capex, which is this--which is what this chart is based on. So we'll be updating that as we move forward.

Projects, specifically LaRonde--work is currently focused on the underground infrastructure construction, and also doing detailed engineering. The shaft sinking on the internal shaft will begin next quarter. First production is still anticipated in 2011, so no changes there. We're also drifting out on level 215, the exploration drift--that will put us in a position shortly to start to drill the exploration target that was identified earlier, in the previous year, on the Bousquet property. So work is still ongoing on that.

On Goldex, it's going very well. Underground development on schedule, shaft sinking performance on budget. The processing plant, we expect to complete in the first quarter of '08. We still expect startup of this project in the second quarter of '08, and on this project, we have not seen any major cost overruns. And we also continue to drill this--this, in addition to the 1.7 million ounce reserve, has about 700,000 ounces in the resource category, and we have opened up a drill station, which is allowing us to drill for potential extensions of the Goldex deposit.

On Lapa, we continue to get very good shaft sinking performance. We expect to complete the shaft this quarter. We also expect to start lateral development on this--on the underground program, in the fourth quarter of this year. What we have seen on the start date was, we've seen the start date of the project slip into 2009--originally scheduled for December 2008, and that's principally due to the delivery schedule for some of the processing equipment. We are now looking at the second quarter of 2009.

However, as we look at the budget and the ramp up, we're not expecting this to have any significant impact on the 2009 gold output, as we plan on processing roughly the same amount of ore in 2009 as we planned in the original feasibility. It will have a minor impact on 2008. I think we were expecting about 8,000 ounces of production from Lapa in 2008.

Moving on to Kittila. Kittila is a focus, certainly of mine building, but also from exploration. The construction of the decline is on schedule. We're down about 1,000 metres at the end of June. We've ordered the mining fleet, mechanical installation in the plant is underway. The project remains on schedule for startup towards the end of the third quarter of 2008. What we're seeing in Finland, in terms of local currency, we're seeing roughly a general cost escalation on the project of about 7 million or 8 million euros, which is about 7%. So we're seeing no real significant items on this project.

As we said, we continue to drill. The drilling is focused not only along targets, along strike, but also deep drilling is ongoing, and that's designed to follow up on earlier very good results that were released in May of this year. And just by way of note, on all the exploration, we will have a full and comprehensive exploration update. We plan on having that in roughly the third week of September, which will provide an update--on not only Kittila, but on all of the projects.

On Pinos Altos, as we said, we'll be providing more details on that next week. But just on the exploration side, we continue to drill in a number of areas. This is the largest part of our exploration budget of [$26 million], which includes the ramp. The ramp is down now, 280 metres. We anticipate being in a position to begin underground drilling of, certainly, the Santo Nino area from the ramp by the end of this year.

In the meantime, we continue with surface drilling. We continue to focus between Cerro Colorado and Santo Nino. We continue to focus west of Cerro Colorado, and we also continue to focus on the Creston/Mascota area, which is the structure up to the northwest, which continues to show very good promise.

And what we're also doing, we've completed the feasibility, but there also is work ongoing on a new reserve calculation, which is not part of this feasibility work, which we'll be looking at next week. So work will continue at this project, to take into account a revised reserve figure. So we hope to provide you with some details on that as we move Pinos Altos forward.

At the Meadowbank project, one of the most significant developments in the quarter was the hiring of the senior team, that will be responsible for building and operating this project. We have added Dan Kivari as the General Manager, and Martin Bergeron as the Mine Manager. Both of these gentlemen have an average of 30 years' experience in building and operating large mining operations, with particular expertise in large open pits.

So they are both--these gentlemen are both well suited for this project, and I think that demonstrates a point that we've been making for the last little while, that in an industry where it has been difficult, in some instances, to attract top-notch talent, we found that we have not had as much difficulty as we expected. And certainly, Meadowbank is no different than the strength of the team that we added in Mexico or in Finland.

So we've got a very good team in all of our locations now, to move these projects forward. What this team will be doing will be working on detailed engineering and updating the feasibility work going forward. We expect to provide a project update on this project after that work is completed in the next three to four months.

What we're trying to do as well is, drilling has suggested that we may have to change the general layout of the original mine plan, based on some drilling success. So that is something we're looking at, as we modify and update the feasibility. We're looking, in terms of the startup, no change there--roughly mid-2010. But on the cost side, we're anticipating about a 7% to 10% increase in Canadian dollar construction capex on this project, based on doing some more engineering, and we'll be working through those numbers with the new team, and come up with a revised feasibility on that in the next three to four months.

In terms of the timeline, we touched on this a bit. Pinos Altos decision will be next week. A comprehensive exploration update will be provided in September. Our fourth quarter--our earnings for the third quarter will be on October 25 after the market close.

And what we propose to do is, advance. We normally come out with a 2008 forecast in December, which also, in the past, has included the dividend announcement or rate, which we've done for 25 years. We propose to move that forward about a month, which will allow us to incorporate the new life of mine plans, as well as the updated '08 production forecast, and that will be the basis for considering the dividend going forward. So we'd like to get that done this year in November, as opposed to earlier years, where we did that in early December.

So it's a busy program moving forward, but we're certainly looking forward to putting out what we think should be a fairly steady flow of good news.

On the investment highlights side, just to summarize. Still generating very solid earnings and cash flows, which puts us in a position to have these projects fully funded. The production profile still sees us reaching about the 1.2 million ounce mark in 2010. We're still targeting 18 million to 20 mil ounces of reserves in the next 18 months. And what we will be doing, we will continue to focus on the exploration upside that exists on all of these projects.

And part of that exploration upside are the ability to demonstrate the potential of these projects. We'll really be driven by our access. And at a couple of these projects, we have been drilling strictly from surface. We will begin over the next little while to gain underground access with drills, particularly in Finland. The ramp is down about 1,000 metres. So shortly, we'll be in a position to start drilling from the ramp. That will allow us to get a better angle at the deeper targets on the main zone at Kittila, and also in Mexico. The ramp will allow us better access to drill deeper targets at Santo Nino. So that will put us in a better position to outline the ultimate potential, certainly, of those two deposits.

That's the conclusion of the formal part of the presentation, operator, and we--at this point, we'd like to take questions.

Certainly. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now conduct a question and answer session. (Operator instructors). Your first question comes from John Bridges of JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Hi, Sean, everybody.

Morning.

I was just wondering, with this--the mining of the lower grade zinc ore at LaRonde, your comment that that extends the life--how should we look at the mix of contributions from these, the different ore sources there, going forward?

Good morning, John. Ebe Scherkus.

Hi, Ebe.

Actually, the mix will be roughly the same. I think the issue that we have at LaRonde is in the actual metal prices, in comparison to the budget. We used very conservative metal prices when we started the budget, and if we use present day prices, then a lot of the material, especially on the fringes, on east and west and also into the hanging wall, becomes economic.

And so the actual blend will be the same, but the impact, if we do take it--take that additional material, it will extend the life of mine of LaRonde I by an additional two years.

Okay. And that's the entirety of it, or just what's in front of you at the moment?

Just what's in front of us at the moment.

So what does--so when would you require--I suppose that gives you more leeway with the deep extension.

Exactly.

And so, when would that switchover come?

That switchover--obviously, we would like to maintain our gold production profile. And so I--the planned switchover was around 2011. That's still our target, but it will mean that LaRonde I will not be depleted.

Okay, so you--you've basically built in some flexibility.

Yes.

Okay, that's helpful. And I see with your--there's some rather optimistic currency estimates in some of the cash cost estimates. So you--will those be changed with the--with the new forecasting you're going to give us later in the year?

Yes, yes. That will be part of the update in November.

Okay. Well done, the results, and thanks very much.

Thank you.

Your next question comes from Victor Flores of HSBC. Please go ahead.

Yes, thanks, good morning. I was hoping that you could give us a bit more color on what you see as the long-term potential for Kittila. I realize that you can't answer all these questions until you get down there and do some more drilling, but it appears that the center of gravity of this project is moving more towards the underground. And I was just hoping you could give us some color on that.

We're only--that is because we're focusing on the main mine, the zone--the main zone, currently, Victor. And I think for long-term planning purposes, with respect to looking at shaft locations. But I think what the deep drilling has done, it has basically extended the mineralization vertically by about another 400 metres.

But if you look at the history of the whole belt of the original Suurikuusikko deposit, the main zone started off very similar--similarly to our zones [Auroravarha], [Lepaha], the other zones to the north. So they all have that same sort of history.

And then, as we started drilling deeper, and followed them up, the deposits grew. So there is nothing--I would say there's no real relationship with respect to the center of gravity. It's just a matter of getting the work done. And we're focusing on building ounces. And the--that is our first priority.

Secondly, if you look at the deep drilling, that's some of the best grade material that we have encountered, and of course, we'd like to focus all of the drills around that particular intersection, because that's where we believe we can get instant growth, and reserves, and resources.

Thank you. Do you have any sense as to whether there are specific areas that have higher grade [chutes] that you'd like to focus on? Or is it still too early to ask that kind of question?

Well, I think the area we'd like to focus on right now are the actual--the main zone. When we look at the intersection that we obtained there, it was over 15 metres thick. But the actual mineralization was in excess of 30 metres thick. So that is one very prime target area that we have to follow up on.

Great, thanks. And then, just turning to Pinos Altos, and I know there's a lot of information coming, including the analysts' tour. But could you give us a sense at this point as to what the breakdown on the reserve is between the open pit and the underground?

The open pit reserve would be about one third of that, would be roughly--I would say--800,000 ounces to 900,000 ounces would be open pittable, and the remaining would be underground, of the 1.8 million.

Great. Thank you so much.

Your next question comes from Chantal Gosselin of Genuity Capital. Please go ahead.

Good morning. My first question relates to Kittila. Could you give us an update on the amended permits, since you had to amend for the autoclaves?

We just received a notification from the Lapland Environmental Authority, and they have ruled that it will only be--an amendment will be required, and not a full EIS. So that is very good news indeed, and we expect to have the permit by the end of the year for the autoclaves.

So that would--you would still be on track to be able to be in production?

Absolutely.

Yeah, okay. Secondly is regarding Goldex. You do--you did put some stockpile in your press release, your 181,000 tonnes at 1.9 grams. Is that ore mostly coming from the reserve, or from the ore?

Well, most of the development--if you looked at the Goldex deposit, of the deposit--of the zone, is within the ore body. But a lot of it is in the bottom part and the draw points--the bottom of the ore body in the cones. And a part of it is also with the--with respect to the drill drifts. So you would expect to see slightly lower grade, because it is at the bottom. So there is some interlapping there--overlap.

Okay, that's why the grade is lower than the reserve, right?

That's one reason, but then also, that is based on channel sampling. And if you look, when we made the feasibility--or, completed the feasibility sample, channel sampling gave us one of the lower grades in comparison to actual mill recovered grades and diamond drilling.

Okay, so you still expect the 2.3 grams--

I would say in the neighborhood of that, but slightly lower, because we do know we are taking material that is marginal, to put in the infrastructure.

Okay. And lastly, just--once you finish the shaft and--can you give us a sense of how long you estimate it's going to take to be in commercial production?

Well, we're saying that we will be ready by the middle of the year. The shaft will be completed in the fourth quarter of this year, and as you're aware, we're developing a lot of the infrastructure from Shaft No. 1, so the main thing that we have to complete over the next year or so is the crusher, the load out facility--but work has already started on the crusher room excavation from Shaft No. 1. So we expect to have all of the infrastructure ready by--ready to go by the middle of next year.

Production drilling will be starting in the first quarter of next year, and then we are going to start blasting and building up the swale. So production will ramp up during the second half of the year, and we expect to be at full tonnage by the end of next year.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Your next question comes from Steven Butler of Canaccord Adams. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, guys, and congratulations on hiring Mr. Dan Kivari.

Thank you.

I wonder when he's headed back to Finland?

No, that's not in his work description.

No, I'm just kidding--okay. Guys, just a quick question for you on--Ebe, as much for as you for anybody, on the Lapa--because Sean mentioned the delays. I maybe missed what your comments were, Sean or Ebe, on Lapa, in terms of expecting now nominal ounces of production in 2008?

Well, the amount of ounces that we had forecasted at Lapa was around 8,000 ounces, and that was just a startup in December. We've done a lot of additional metallurgical work, so we've done some modifications to the process, and so as a result of that, we ordered the equipment and the market, what it--being what it currently is, especially the delivery times of the SAG mill were longer than what we had anticipated. So that has been incorporated.

However, what we have been able to do is, rather than having a slower ramp up, we will have a quicker ramp up in the second half of the year, so the ounce production for 2009 will be as planned.

Okay, Ebe, thanks. And Sean, you mentioned the impact, I think, of Bousquet ore in the quarter. By my calculations, it's a fairly nominal impact of not much more than [$1.00] a tonne on your consolidated costs. Is that correct?

No, actually, it was about--Steve, this is Dave. There was about US $3 million of costs for previously inventoried--that were added to our period costs for the quarter. And that added about an impact of almost [$4.00] a tonne.

Oh, I see. So, not--they were not necessarily in the [$100.00] per tonne, quote. They're additional to the [$100.00] per tonne, quote.

No, no. The $3 million is U.S., so it's about $100.00 and--to $110.00 Canadian.

Okay.

And that got added to our period costs in the quarter, so over and above our regular operating costs. Because it didn't displace any LaRonde ore--

Oh, I see.

Our tonnage was over budget in the quarter, and it was over budget by the amount of Bousquet ore we processed.

Okay. Okay. Thanks very much.

(Operator instructions). Your next question comes from Greg Barnes of TD Newcrest. Please go ahead.

Yes, thanks. Sean, I guess, from your opening statements, we can conclude that you have no intention of getting involved in the M&A in the gold sector that's going on right now?

Well, I think we've--if you look at the approach we've taken over the last three years, that's certainly the way we hope to continue. We've been asked specifically about the Meridian transaction, and normally, we wouldn't comment on it. But we will in this case, because we've consistently said in the last year that that's not something that we would do. And it's no knock against them, because we actually, as we've said, respect the job that they have done over many, many years of doing the right thing, and creating a lot of value for their shareholders.

But when we look at it, it's our estimation that we can add as many ounces as Meridian has currently in reserves, through our own drilling of our resource in the next 18 months, so it makes more sense to do that, rather than to spend [$3 billion] plus to buy something like Meridian.

Great, thank you. Just a follow up question, too. On your capex breakdown for the year, you've revised a bit from what you put out at the end of Q1. And I guess, just the distribution of the capex. And Goldex has gone up from [$91 million] to [$107 million]. Is that a timing issue, or is there something else going on there?

I think it's a function of timing, and a little bit of foreign exchange as well. We're using more current foreign currency rates, and there hasn't been any real serious escalation in costs in local currency terms. But obviously, when translated into U.S. dollars, there is an impact.

And that's the same on the other numbers that have moved around a bit?

More or less, yes.

Okay, thank you.

Your next question is a follow up question from Chantal Gosselin of Genuity Capital. Please go ahead.

Hi. I just forgot to ask about the tax rate. In the quarter, your tax rate was much below what you guided before, 41%. Can you tell us, or give us some guidance, what we should use going forward?

Yeah, the big change in the quarter was because of the acquisition of Cumberland. The expenditures that we're incurring at Meadowbank actually help us to shelter income at LaRonde, and that reduces our overall effective tax rate, going forward. So we're guiding for the full year of 30% to 35%, similar levels next year.

And that would be for two years, and then we would go back to something more like 40%?

Yeah, once the expenditures at Meadowbank start to abate in late '09, 2010, then I would expect the tax rate to creep back up.

Okay. Okay, thank you.

Your next question comes from Robert Cohen of Goodman & Company. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi, guys. Hi, Sean--hi, Ebe. Quick question, just on your TC/RCs, given the fact that the TC/RC market--the costs have dropped quite significantly over the last few quarters. Just wondering if we're still on some old contracts right now, and what we--what things look like going forward. Do you expect to renew any contracts?

Hi--Jean Robitaille. All of our contracts, we are on long-term contract currently, and we are on the benchmark. So for all of the products in this--completely committed for the year, and the coming year.

Do we have a sense of what you're paying on just your basic TC/RC charges?

Horizontally, it's in line with what is in the news, so for the zinc, is--I'd read--I'd read something. I have to check back. I can come back to you.

Okay, thank you.

Your next question comes from Lynn Moore of the Montreal Gazette. Please go ahead.

Hello. I just wanted to ask you about the labor situation. You referred to it obliquely earlier. Is it--it's still a very tight labor market, for skilled and experienced people?

Good morning, Lynn. It's Ebe Scherkus here.

Hi.

The market is definitely tightening. However, we have been fortunate, because we offer job security in the Abitibi. What has been surprising is the recruitment on our metal bank project--we recently put out an ad in western Canada, Nunavut, and eastern Canada. And what was surprising, that we received over 500 applications for the metal bank project. Also within Nunevut --the Baker Lake and surrounding areas, we received an additional, over 200 people.

So we have to look through over 700 people that are interested to compete for about 300 jobs. And we don't have the same problems, but there is a definite tightening.

Okay. Are these skilled jobs?

I would say about 60% of them would be able to be truck drivers, operators. And the remainder would be journeymen, electrician, mechanics, and of course, technical people.

Okay, just one last question. You mentioned the experience of the two fellows you hired for the project. They have 30 years--is that together, or each?

Sixty years together--each.

Ah, very good. Thanks.

Your next question comes from [Christien Amoutine de CDP Capital]. Please go ahead.

Good morning. It's actually Steven Kibsey. I'm just wondering, at Meadowbank, what was the exchange rate that was used in the feasibility study, to get the cost that--$2.30 to $2.50 U.S. dollars an ounce?

Steve, off the top--it's Dave. I think it's around 120.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Mr. Boyd, there are no further questions at this time. Please continue.

Well, thank you, operator, and thanks once again for participating in our second quarter conference call. And for some of you, we'll see you at Pinos Altos in a couple of weeks.

Thanks again.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the conference call for today. Thank you for participating. Please disconnect your lines.