Aegon Ltd (AEG) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Aegon's first half 2025 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker, Yves Cormier, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Aegon 2025 年上半年業績電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。現在，我想將會議交給發言人、投資者關係主管 Yves Cormier。請繼續。

Thanks, operator, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us for this conference call on Aegon's first half year 2025 results. I'm Yves Cormier, Head of Investor Relations, and joining me today to take you through our progress our Aegon CEO, Lard Friese; and CFO, Duncan Russell. Before we start, we would like to ask you to review our disclaimer on forward-looking statements, which you can find at the end of the presentation. And with that, I would like to give the floor to Lard.

謝謝接線員，大家早安。感謝您參加 Aegon 2025 年上半年業績的電話會議。我是投資者關係主管 Yves Cormier，今天我將與大家一起了解 Aegon 執行長 Lard Friese 和財務長 Duncan Russell 的進展。在我們開始之前，我們想請您查看我們關於前瞻性陳述的免責聲明，您可以在簡報的末尾找到該免責聲明。現在，我想請拉德發言。

Thank you, Yves, and good morning, everyone. I want to start today's presentation by informing you about the next steps in Aegon's transformation and running through our commercial developments before Duncan will address our results in more detail.

謝謝你，伊夫，大家早安。在今天的演講開始之前，我想先向大家介紹一下 Aegon 轉型的下一步計劃，並介紹我們的商業發展情況，然後 Duncan 會更詳細地介紹我們的成果。

So let me begin on slide number 2 with the key messages. Our strategy is to grow and transform our businesses, and we made good progress in doing so during the first half of 2025. We are on track to deliver on our strategy and on all our targets. Our operating result was EUR845 million, up 19% compared with last year. This increase was mainly driven by profitable business growth and less unfavorable claims experience in the US, but also in the UK and in our International segment.

那麼，讓我從第二張投影片開始介紹關鍵訊息。我們的策略是發展和轉型我們的業務，我們在 2025 年上半年在這方面取得了良好的進展。我們正在按計劃實施我們的策略和所有目標。我們的營業利潤為8.45億歐元，比去年同期成長19%。這一增長主要得益於美國、英國和國際部門的盈利業務增長和不利索賠經歷的減少。

Operating capital generation before holding and funding expenses amounted to EUR576 million, decreasing by 2% over the same period. New business strain increased, especially in our US strategic assets as we grew the business. Commercial momentum remains strong across our key markets leading to higher new life sales and more net deposits.

扣除持有和融資費用前的營運資本產生額為 5.76 億歐元，較同期下降 2%。隨著業務的成長，新業務壓力不斷增加，尤其是美國戰略資產的壓力。我們主要市場的商業動能依然強勁，帶來更高的新車銷售和更多的淨存款。

The capital position of our operating units remains strong and above their respective operating levels. Furthermore, in the US, we have extended the hedging of the variable annuity portfolio to cover part of the base exposure, which reduces our exposure to downward equity markets further.

我們營運單位的資本狀況依然強勁，且高於各自的營運水準。此外，在美國，我們擴大了變額年金投資組合的對沖範圍，以涵蓋部分基礎風險敞口，從而進一步降低了我們在股市下行中的風險敞口。

Cash capital holding totals over EUR2 billion following the receipt of planned remittances from all our units and the completion of a EUR150 million share buyback in the first half of the year. On the back of the solid performance, we have increased the interim dividend by EUR0.03 compared with last year to EUR0.19 per common share.

在收到所有單位的計畫匯款並於今年上半年完成 1.5 億歐元的股票回購後，現金資本持有總額超過 20 億歐元。基於穩健的業績，我們將中期股息較去年同期增加 0.03 歐元，至每股普通股 0.19 歐元。

Furthermore, today, we announced a EUR200 million increase to the current share buyback program, which began in July. In total, we will buy back EUR400 million of shares during the second half of 2025. This once again demonstrates our ongoing commitment to return excess capital to shareholders unless we can invest it in value-creating opportunities, and it is consistent with our plan to reduce our cash capital at holding to around EUR1 billion by the end of 2026.

此外，今天我們宣布將 7 月開始的現有股票回購計畫增加 2 億歐元。整體而言，我們將在 2025 年下半年回購價值 4 億歐元的股票。這再次證明了我們持續致力於將過剩資本返還給股東，除非我們能夠將其投資於創造價值的機會，這也符合我們到 2026 年底將持有的現金資本減少至約 10 億歐元的計劃。

Today, we are also announcing a review of potential relocation of our head office in the US I will now move to slide number 3 to provide you with some background on this review. This is an important step in the transformation of our company. In recent years, Aegon's business in the United States, which accounts for approximately 70% of Aegon's operations has become Aegon's primary market and central to the company's strategy and long-term growth.

今天，我們也宣布對美國總部可能遷址進行審查，現在我將轉到投影片 3，向您介紹有關此審查的一些背景資訊。這是我們公司轉型的重要一步。近年來，Aegon 在美國的業務約佔 Aegon 業務的 70%，已成為 Aegon 的主要市場，也是公司策略和長期成長的核心。

The relocation of Aegon's legal domicile and head office to the United States is a logical step, is expected to simplify Aegon's corporate structure as it would align its legal domicile, tax residency, accounting standard and regulatory framework with a geography where it conducts the majority of its business.

將 Aegon 的法定住所和總部遷至美國是合乎邏輯的一步，預計將簡化 Aegon 的公司結構，因為它將使其法定住所、稅務居住地、會計準則和監管框架與其開展大部分業務的地理位置保持一致。

Moreover, bringing the head office closer to our largest market allows much closer cooperation between the holding and its main business unit, which is an important enabler to grow successfully in the long term. As part of the review, we will evaluate the additional advantages that would come with being a US-based company. This includes the impact on all of Aegon's stakeholders and of making our listing on the New York Stock Exchange our primary listing alongside our Euronext listing.

此外，將總部設在我們最大的市場附近，可以使控股公司與其主要業務部門之間的合作更加密切，這是長期成功成長的重要推動因素。作為審查的一部分，我們將評估作為美國公司所帶來的額外優勢。這包括對 Aegon 所有利害關係人的影響，以及將我們在紐約證券交易所的上市作為我們與泛歐交易所上市的主要上市地點。

Another key component of this review is the implementation of US GAAP reporting, which is a complex process, which would likely take two to three years to complete. Preparations for the implementation have begun. We aim to share the outcome of this review at our Capital Markets Day on December 10 of this year.

這次審查的另一個關鍵部分是實施美國公認會計準則報告，這是一個複雜的過程，可能需要兩到三年才能完成。實施準備工作已經開始。我們計劃在今年 12 月 10 日的資本市場日分享此次審查的結果。

With that, I will now move on to slide number 4 to discuss our recent commercial performance and starting with the Americas. We continued to deliver on Transamerica's transformation, growing our strategic assets during the reporting period. World Financial Group recorded a 14% increase in its number of licensed agents to over 90,000, thanks to successful recruiting efforts and improved retention.

接下來，我將轉到投影片 4，討論我們最近的商業表現，首先從美洲開始。我們持續推進 Transamerica 的轉型，在報告期間增加我們的策略資產。由於成功的招募工作和留任率的提高，世界金融集團的持牌代理商數量增加了 14%，達到 90,000 多人。

The productivity of the agents selling life insurance products increased mainly from higher average premiums per policy. This offset a slight reduction in the number of multiticket agents, while it led to an increase in Transamerica's market share in WFG US life sales. This higher agent productivity at WFG was one of the key drivers of the 13% increase in new life sales in our Individual Life business.

銷售人壽保險產品的代理人的生產力增加主要源自於每份保單的平均保費增加。這抵消了多票代理商數量的輕微減少，同時導致 Transamerica 在 WFG 美國人壽保險銷售中的市場份額增加。WFG 代理商生產力的提高是我們個人壽險業務新壽險銷售額成長 13% 的關鍵驅動因素之一。

We also recorded strong growth of new life sales in the brokerage channel, driven by the successful launch of a fully digital experience of a whole life final expense product last autumn. Furthermore, we continue to see steady growth in the RILA product, where net deposits nearly doubled compared with last year.

受去年秋季成功推出全數位終身壽險最終費用產品的推動，我們在經紀通路的新壽險銷售也實現了強勁成長。此外，我們繼續看到 RILA 產品的穩定增長，其淨存款與去年相比幾乎翻了一番。

In the savings and investments segment, we recorded solid net deposits in our retirement plan business over the reporting period. This was driven by midsized plans, partly supported by the onboarding of a large pool plan. Written sales continue to be strong, which we see as a positive indicator for future growth of our book.

在儲蓄和投資領域，報告期間我們的退休計畫業務錄得穩健的淨存款。這是由中型計劃推動的，部分是由大型池計劃的加入所支持的。書面銷售持續強勁，我們認為這是我們圖書未來成長的正面指標。

Finally, we realized further growth in the general accounts stable value product and in IRAs as we work to increase profitability and diversify revenue streams in the retirement plan business. Let's move on to slide number 5 for an update on the other units.

最後，我們致力於提高退休計畫業務的獲利能力和收入來源多元化，實現了一般帳戶穩定價值產品和個人退休帳戶（IRA）的進一步成長。讓我們轉到第 5 張投影片來了解其他單位的最新情況。

At Aegon US, we continue to make progress on the strategy we presented at the June of last year. Deposits in the Workplace platform can be lumpy. And in this period, we benefited from the onboarding of a larger scheme. The adviser platform business continued to be adversely impacted by ongoing consolidation and vertical integration in nontarget adviser segments.

在 Aegon US，我們繼續推動去年 6 月提出的策略。工作場所平台中的存款可能會不菲。在此期間，我們從更大計劃的實施中受益。顧問平台業務持續受到非目標顧問部門持續整合和垂直整合的不利影響。

In the International segment, our joint ventures in Brazil, China as well as Spain and Portugal, all generated higher new life sales. This was partially offset by lower sales at TLB as a result of changes in the competitive landscape in Singapore. Aegon's Asset Management reported solid third-party net deposits during the reporting period. Net deposits in the global platforms business were mostly attributed to alternative fixed income products. Strategic partnerships net deposits were driven by our Chinese joint venture, which benefited from collaboration with the consumer finance platform.

在國際領域，我們在巴西、中國以及西班牙和葡萄牙的合資企業均創造了更高的新車銷售。由於新加坡競爭格局的變化，TLB 的銷售額下降部分抵消了這一影響。報告期間內，全球全球資產管理公司報告第三方淨存款穩健。全球平台業務的淨存款主要來自另類固定收益產品。戰略合作夥伴淨存款由我們的中國合資企業推動，該合資企業受益於與消費金融平台的合作。

I will now hand over to Duncan to discuss our financial performance in more detail.

現在我將把時間交給鄧肯來更詳細地討論我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Lard. Let me start with an overview on slide 7. In the first half of 2025, the operating results increased by 19% year on year mostly reflecting an improvement at Transamerica. Operating capital generation before holding, funding and operating expenses decreased by 2% over the same period, mainly driven by higher new business strength. .

謝謝你，拉德。讓我先從第 7 張投影片上的概述開始。2025 年上半年，經營業績年增 19%，主要反映了 Transamerica 的改善。扣除持有、融資和營運費用前的營運資本產生額較同期下降 2%，主要由於新業務實力增強。。

Free cash flow in the first half of 2025 amounted to EUR442 million, and this is a significant increase compared to the EUR373 million generated last year. Cash capital at holding remains very healthy, standing at EUR2 billion for the end of June, allowing us to announce an increase of our ongoing share buyback program.

2025 年上半年的自由現金流達到 4.42 億歐元，與去年的 3.73 億歐元相比有顯著成長。持有的現金資本仍然非常健康，6 月底達到 20 億歐元，這使我們能夠宣布增加我們正在進行的股票回購計畫。

On a per share basis, valuation equity, which consists of the sum of shareholders' equity and the CSM balance after tax decreased by 5% in the period, mostly from the impact of unfavorable exchange rate movements on the group CSM, which were partly offset by a strong net result. Exchange rate movements were also the driver for the reduction of gross financial leverage. And lastly, the group solvency ratio decreased by 5-percentage-points compared with year-end 2024 to 183%, mainly from the new share buyback program and the reservation of the 2025 interim dividend.

以每股計算，由股東權益和稅後合約服務邊際餘額之和組成的估值權益在本期間下降了 5%，這主要是由於不利的匯率變動對集團合約服務邊際的影響，但強勁的淨業績部分抵消了這一影響。匯率變動也是降低總財務槓桿率的驅動因素。最後，集團償付能力充足率較2024年底下降5個百分點至183%，主要由於新的股票回購計畫和2025年中期股利的預留。

Using slide 8, I will address the development of our IFRS net results in the first half of 2025. The operating results amounted to EUR845 million coming in at the top end of the EUR750 million to EUR850 million run rate range we had indicated with the full year 2024 results.

使用投影片 8，我將討論 2025 年上半年 IFRS 淨業績的發展。營業利潤達到 8.45 億歐元，處於我們根據 2024 年全年業績預測的 7.5 億歐元至 8.5 億歐元運行率範圍的最高值。

In the US, the operating results improved materially year on year to EUR685 million within our guided range of EUR650 million to EUR750 million. The result benefited from growth in our strategic assets, notably the Protection Solutions business with some offset in distribution where the operating margin fell in the first half of 2025 as previously flagged, as we invested further in the business.

在美國，經營業績年增至 6.85 億歐元，在我們預期的 6.5 億歐元至 7.5 億歐元範圍內。這一業績得益於我們策略性資產的成長，特別是保護解決方案業務，但分銷業務有所抵消，由於我們進一步投資該業務，分銷業務的營業利潤率在 2025 年上半年出現下降，正如之前所述。

We had an improved result in financial assets because of less unfavorable experience variances from onerous contracts. Claims experience was largely offset by reserve releases. Unfavorable reserve changes due to premium variances that we saw in the US in the second half of 2024 continued into the first half of 2025.

由於不利的合約經驗差異減少，我們的金融資產表現有所改善。索賠經驗很大程度被儲備金釋放所抵銷。2024 年下半年，美國因保費差異導致的不利準備金變化持續到了 2025 年上半年。

As we previously bagged materially lesser degree. The operating results of the US increased is benefiting from business growth and favorable markets. In the International segment, the operating results increased mainly from a higher CSM release in TLB and Spain and Portugal. Aegon Asset Management's operating results as well as out of the holding was broadly stable compared with the same period of last year.

因為我們之前獲得的獎勵程度較低。美國經營業績的成長得益於業務成長和有利的市場。在國際領域，經營績效的成長主要得益於 TLB、西班牙和葡萄牙的合約服務訂單釋放量增加。全球全球資產管理公司的經營績效以及持股與去年同期相比基本穩定。

Moving on. Nonoperating items were an aggregate favorable in the period, driven by hedging results recorded in fair value items. Other charges amounted to EUR207 million, mostly because of the assumption updates in the US and at TLD to address the experience we've recently seen.

繼續。受公允價值項目中所記錄的避險結果的推動，本期間非營業項目整體呈現獲利狀態。其他費用總計 2.07 億歐元，主要是因為美國和 TLD 更新了假設，以解決我們最近看到的經驗。

Finally, we booked a EUR50 million contribution from our stake in ASR. Looking forward to the second half of the year, we are increasing our guided operating results range for the US by $50 million to EUR700 million to EUR800 million. but we're keeping the group guidance of EUR750 million to EUR850 million, reflecting the current events.

最後，我們從 ASR 的股份中獲得了 5000 萬歐元的貢獻。展望下半年，我們將美國的指導性經營績效範圍提高 5,000 萬美元，至 7 億歐元至 8 億歐元。但我們仍將集團指導性經營績效維持在 7.5 億歐元至 8.5 億歐元，以反映當前的情況。

I'm now moving on to slide 9. Based on the strong net result and a positive contribution of the assumption updates to OCI, shareholders' equity increased slightly over the period. The CSM balance decreased over the period, mostly because of unfavorable currency movements.

我現在轉到第 9 張投影片。基於強勁的淨業績和假設更新對 OCI 的正面貢獻，股東權益在此期間略有增加。合約服務條款餘額在此期間有所減少，主要原因是貨幣走勢不利。

In US dollars, the CSM of our strategic assets in the US increased thanks to profitable new business, while the CSM or financial assets decreased due to the runoff of the book, the impact of claims experience as well as the impact of strengthening policyholder behavior assumptions.

以美元計算，由於新業務盈利，我們在美國戰略資產的合約服務邊際有所增加，而由於帳簿流失、索賠經驗的影響以及加強保單持有人行為假設的影響，合約服務邊際或金融資產有所減少。

Outside the US, the changes to the total CSM balance were limited with the US CSM decreasing modestly on a local currency basis and the International segment, CSM increasing modestly from assumption updates. Overall, valuation equity per share decreased by 5-percentage-points over the first half of 2025 to EUR8.47 per share mostly due to the exchange rate development.

在美國以外，CSM 總餘額的變化有限，美國 CSM 按當地貨幣計算略有下降，而國際部分的 CSM 根據假設更新略有增加。總體而言，每股估值權益在 2025 年上半年下降了 5 個百分點，至每股 8.47 歐元，主要原因是匯率變動。

slide 10. Operating capital generation or OCG decreased by 2% compared to the first half of 2024. OCG from the US decreased by 4% or 3% in US dollars. OCG from the strategic assets decrease our investments in business growth through high new business stream. OCG from financial assets increased mostly from higher fees as variable annuity account balances increased on the back of favorable markets.

幻燈片 10。與 2024 年上半年相比，營運資本產生量或 OCG 下降了 2%。來自美國的OCG下降了4%，以美元計算則下降了3%。OCG從策略資產中透過高新業務流減少了我們對業務成長的投資。金融資產的 OCG 增加主要是因為費用增加，因為在有利的市場推動下，可變年金帳戶餘額增加。

Furthermore, claims experience in the period was less than favorable than in the same period last year and included $86 million of unfavorable mortality, largely related to the Universal Life book. Looking through the unfavorable claims experience in the period, we continue to observe a quarterly OCG run rate for the Americas of around $200 million to $240 million.

此外，該期間的索賠情況不如去年同期那麼好，其中包括 8,600 萬美元的不利死亡損失，這主要與萬能壽險有關。縱觀該時期不利的索賠經歷，我們繼續觀察到美洲季度 OCG 運行率約為 2 億至 2.4 億美元。

The OCG benefited from favorable markets as well as favorable nonrecurring variances. The International segment reported lower OCG with improved underwriting experience in TLB being offset by lower OCG from China. Aegon Asset Management's OCG was stable compared to the same period of last year.

OCG 受益於有利的市場以及有利的非經常性差異。國際部門報告 OCG 有所下降，但 TLB 承保經驗的改善被中國的 OCG 下降所抵消。Aegon Asset Management 的 OCG 與去年同期相比保持穩定。

Looking ahead, we continue to expect OCG before holding fund and operating expenses of around EUR1.2 billion in 2025. I'm now turning to. The capital positions of our business units remain robust and above their respective operating levels. The US RBC ratio decreased by 23-percentage-points compared with year-end 2024 to 420%.

展望未來，我們仍預計 2025 年 OCG 的持有基金和營運費用將達到約 12 億歐元。我現在轉向。我們業務部門的資本狀況依然強勁，且高於各自的營運水準。美國RBC比率較2024年底下降23個百分點至420%。

Market movements had a 15-percentage-points negative impact on this ratio. Of this, 5-percentage-points is due to hedging, rebalancing and cross effects as a consequence of elevated market volatility in April, which we flagged with the first quarter trading update.

市場波動對該比率產生了15個百分點的負面影響。其中，5個百分點是由於4月份市場波動加劇導致的對沖、再平衡和交叉效應，我們在第一季交易更新中對此進行了標記。

The remaining unfavorable impact was largely driven by valuation moves in our alternative asset portfolio and lower interest rates. Onetime items had a 9-percentage-points unfavorable impact due to restructuring costs, the annual actuarial assumption update and smaller items. For the remainder, operating capital generation in the period was offset by remittances to the group.

其餘不利影響主要是由於我們的另類資產組合的估值變動和較低的利率所致。由於重組成本、年度精算假設更新和較小的項目，一次性項目產生了 9 個百分點的不利影響。其餘部分，本期間的營運資本產生被匯給集團的款項所抵銷。

Finally, in mid-August, we decided to expand the dynamic hedge program of our variable annuities to cover the equity market exposure of the fees of 25% of the base contracts. This represents an additional lever available to us to manage our risk profile going forward, reduces our economic equity market exposure on the VA block, and thus capital requirement and first solidifies the expected runoff profile, albeit with a small negative impact on run rate OCG.

最後，在8月中旬，我們決定擴大變額年金的動態避險計劃，以涵蓋25%基礎合約費用的股票市場風險。這為我們提供了一個額外的槓桿來管理我們未來的風險狀況，減少了我們在 VA 區塊上的經濟股票市場風險敞口，從而減少了資本需求，並首先鞏固了預期的流失狀況，儘管對運行率 OCG 產生了輕微的負面影響。

In the US, the solvency ratio of Scottish decreased by 1-percentage-point to 185% as operating capital generation in the period was offset by remittances and investments in the business. slide 12. Cash capital holding remains extremely healthy, standing at just over EUR2 billion. Free cash flow amounted to EUR442 million in the period and included remittances from all our units as well as capital returns from our stake in ASR. We returned EUR110 million of capital to shareholders through share buybacks.

在美國，蘇格蘭的償付能力充足率下降了 1 個百分點，至 185%，因為該期間的營運資本產生被匯款和業務投資所抵銷。幻燈片 12。現金資本持有量依然十分健康，略高於 20 億歐元。本期間自由現金流達 4.42 億歐元，包括我們所有單位的匯款以及我們在 ASR 股份的資本回報。我們透過股票回購向股東返還了1.1億歐元的資本。

And in addition, we purchased 14 million worth of shares, which will be used for share-based compensation plans.

此外，我們還購買了價值 1,400 萬股股票，將用於股權激勵計畫。

Today, we have announced a EUR200 million increase of the currently ongoing share buyback program, bringing it to a total of EUR400 million for the second half of the year. Our objective remains to reach the midpoint of the operating range for cash capital at holding, around EUR1 billion by the end of 2026.

今天，我們宣布將目前正在進行的股票回購計畫增加 2 億歐元，使下半年的總額達到 4 億歐元。我們的目標仍是 2026 年底達到持有現金資本營運範圍的中點，約 10 億歐元。

Let me conclude our presentation with the final slide on page 13. Taking into account our performance in the first half of 2025 and the outlook for our businesses, we are on track to achieve all of our financial targets for 2025. We look forward to meeting you at the Capital Markets Day on December 10 in London. At the event, we will share the conclusion of the review regarding a potential relocation of Aegon's head office to the United States. And with that, I would now like to open the call for questions.

讓我用第 13 頁的最後一張投影片來結束我們的演講。考慮到我們 2025 年上半年的業績和業務前景，我們預計將實現 2025 年的所有財務目標。我們期待12月10日在倫敦資本市場日與您見面。在此次活動中，我們將分享 Aegon 總部可能遷至美國的審查結論。現在，我想開始提問。

Please limit us up to two questions per person. Operator, please open the Q&A session.

請限制每個人最多提問兩個問題。接線員，請開啟問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) David Barma Bauma, Bank of America.

（操作員指示）美國銀行 David Barma Bauma。

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. To start with, can you talk about what drove the decision to cover 25% of the variable annuity based fee, please? Did you see that as the optimal balance between cost of protection? Or is it a first step and you'd like to do, do more over time? And I'll ask my second straight away because it's linked to that. The -- that combined with the measures taken on the Universal Life block will weigh on on OCG going forward, but you've reiterated the guidance.

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。首先，您能否談談是什麼促使您決定承擔 25% 的變額年金費用？您是否認為這是保護成本之間的最佳平衡？或者這只是第一步，您希望隨著時間的推移做更多的事情？我會立即問第二個問題，因為它與此相關。這與針對 Universal Life 區塊採取的措施相結合，將對 OCG 未來的發展產生壓力，但您已經重申了指導意見。

We've been in a similar situation in the past two years with mortality first and then the drag in China, both being offset by other measures. So as I'm trying to understand how reliant OCG is to the current level of equities and to what extent stronger-than-expected business growth is making you comfortable with the the OCG level that you're guiding for? If you can give a bit of color on that, please? Thank you.

過去兩年我們也遇到類似的情況，首先是死亡率，然後是中國的拖累，但兩者都被其他指標所抵消。因此，我想了解 OCG 對目前股票水準的依賴程度，以及強於預期的業務成長在多大程度上讓您對所指導的 OCG 水準感到滿意？您能對此做一點解釋嗎？謝謝。

Thanks, David. Yes. Okay. So the VA based hedging, Davis, we executed upon that in recent days, actually last week, we executed on it. And that is an additional tool we brought into our toolkit to manage and stabilize the capital generation and the earnings profile of our variable is in , as you know.

謝謝，大衛。是的。好的。因此，戴維斯，基於 VA 的對沖，我們最近幾天就執行了，實際上是上週，我們就執行了。如您所知，這是我們工具包中引入的附加工具，用於管理和穩定資本產生和變數的獲利狀況。

We did that for a number of reasons, partly to stabilize capital, quality to bring an additional tool kit, partly because equity markets are at a good level. So it's just part of a normal ongoing management unilateral actions related to financial assets. The 25% again, it's a bit -- probably a bit of prudence on our side. We wanted to execute upon that, monitor how it works to make sure you understand it fully. And then in the future, once we put have observed that we could increase it or decrease it depending on on how we view things.

我們這樣做的原因有很多，部分是為了穩定資本，提高品質以提供額外的工具包，部分是因為股票市場處於良好水平。因此，這只是與金融資產相關的正常持續管理單方面行動的一部分。再次強調，25% 有點——可能是我們這邊有點謹慎。我們希望執行這一點，監控其運作方式以確保您完全理解它。然後在未來，一旦我們觀察到，我們就可以根據我們如何看待事物來增加或減少它。

So one, we do have to balance and manage when we do these things is the impact of slowing on our capital position. So that is one thing, which we continue to monitor. But the net-net is reduced our underlying economic equity exposure on that B book, which I think is a good thing. In terms of OCG, actually, it's a fairly lean quarter. We've reiterated our guidance.

因此，我們在做這些事情時必須平衡和管理經濟放緩對我們資本狀況的影響。因此，這是我們將繼續監控的事情。但淨額減少了我們在 B 帳簿上的潛在經濟股票風險敞口，我認為這是一件好事。就 OCG 而言，實際上這是一個相當清淡的季度。我們重申了我們的指引。

If I take the actual reported OCG for the half year, adding our quarterly run rate, then we're still getting into our guided range of around EUR1.2 billion for the year. Your comments on our equity sensitivity, actually, we're not particularly equity sensitive. You can see the sensitivities in our balance sheet, which are not particularly large. And we -- I think we've guided that our OCG is sensitive by plus or minus 10% to around USD40 million. So again, not particularly equity sensitive to be honest.

如果我將上半年實際報告的 OCG 加上我們的季度運行率，那麼我們仍將進入全年約 12 億歐元的指導範圍。您對我們的股權敏感性的評論實際上，我們對股權並不是特別敏感。您可以在我們的資產負債表中看到敏感性，這些敏感性並不是特別大。而且我們 — — 我認為我們已經指導我們的 OCG 敏感度在正負 10% 左右，約為 4000 萬美元。所以說實話，我對股權並不是特別敏感。

Michael Huttner, Berenberg.

邁克爾赫特納，貝倫貝格。

Hi there. I wanted to say it's almost like -- sounds like goodbye, the decision to -- and I take it as a decision if you've already started doing US GAAP, it sounds to me like a decision. So first question on the US GAAP, can you -- as an indication, where will it land roughly relative to the operating profit or the OCG we've got already? And the other two, I know that it's more than two questions.

你好呀。我想說這幾乎就像——聽起來像是再見，這個決定——如果你已經開始採用美國公認會計準則，我認為這就是一個決定，在我看來，這聽起來就像一個決定。因此，關於美國公認會計準則的第一個問題，您能否 - 作為一個指示，相對於我們已經獲得的營業利潤或 OCG，它大致會處於什麼位置？至於另外兩個問題，我知道不只兩個。

The pool plan, how big it is? Because I guess it's around EUR2 billion, but I don't know. And then also the figures on the new business if I may, the economic exposure, the VA benefit, how much does it reduce the capital required?

泳池規劃圖，有多大？因為我猜大約是 20 億歐元，但我不知道。然後，如果可以的話，我還可以提供有關新業務的數據、經濟風險、退伍軍人福利，它能減少多少所需的資本？

Okay. Michael, that's a number of questions. Let me confirm, it's EUR1.9 billion the group plan that you're referring to as part of the retirement growth of net deposits in this half year. For the remainder, I hand over to you, Duncan.

好的。邁克爾，這是一些問題。讓我確認一下，您提到的團體計畫是19億歐元，是今年半年淨存款退休成長的一部分。剩下的就交給你了，鄧肯。

Yes. So Michael, the -- on US GAAP, no, it's too early to tell. And I don't want to give any sort of guidance on that, that would be misleading at this stage, to be honest. Then on the capital requirement on the VA, it's a small capital benefit. We are reducing the equity exposure, which will reduce the required capital by a small amount in the third quarter.

是的。所以邁克爾，就美國公認會計準則而言，現在下結論還為時過早。我不想對此給予任何指導，說實話，這在現階段會產生誤導。然後，關於 VA 的資本要求，這是一項小額資本福利。我們正在減少股票部位，這將在第三季少量減少所需資本。

And the new business strain?

新的業務壓力又如何？

Party show what your question was on new business strain. But if I look in the quarter, our new business strain was more or less as we anticipated, it was roughly EUR6 million higher than our guided run rate in aggregate.

聚會表明您對新業務壓力有何疑問。但如果我看一下本季度，我們的新業務壓力或多或少符合我們的預期，總體上比我們的指導運行率高出約 600 萬歐元。

Farooq Hanif, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的法魯克·哈尼夫。

Hi, everybody. I just want to delve a little bit into your thinking on the redomiciliation because you've told us, obviously, that you've considered this in the past or it's been on the table, particularly when you move to your regulatory domicile to Bermuda. So I mean, I get the point about it makes sense from the point of view of most of your business is obviously from the US

大家好。我只是想深入了解您對遷冊的想法，因為您顯然已經告訴我們，您過去曾考慮過這個問題，或者已經將其擺在桌面上，特別是當您將監管住所遷至百慕大時。所以我的意思是，我明白這一點，從你們大部分業務顯然來自美國的角度來看，這是有道理的

But I just want to understand what's changed given that you -- I believe that you've probably looked at this before. So I mean, the things that come to my mind are regulators, does it also make it easier for you to execute on some of your plans in the US? Would that be a factor that, for example, in terms of being able to use US.

但我只是想了解發生了什麼變化——我相信你可能之前已經看過這個了。所以我的意思是，我想到的是監管機構，這是否也讓您更容易在美國執行一些計劃？例如，就能夠使用美國而言，這是否是一個因素？

GAAP and just being located there. I wonder if you've been willing to just talk a little bit more about this, I mean, I realize you're reviewing it all, but just some of the other factors that are important. And -- sorry, that was a very long question. Second question, how clean is your EUR845 million operating profit? Can you -- I mean you did quickly run, Duncan, run through some points, but how clean do you think it is?

GAAP 並且就位於那裡。我想知道您是否願意就此多談一點，我的意思是，我知道您正在回顧所有內容，但只是回顧一些其他重要的因素。而且──抱歉，這個問題太長了。第二個問題，你們的8.45億歐元營業利潤有多乾淨？你能——我的意思是你確實快速地跑完了一些點，鄧肯，但你認為它有多乾淨？

Yes. So Farooq, I will answer your first question and take it through the rationale and everything that you asked for. And then -- but let's start to clear the questions you're Duncan on the financials, the second one.

是的。所以法魯克，我將回答你的第一個問題，並解釋其理由以及你所要求的一切。然後——但讓我們開始澄清一下鄧肯關於財務的問題，第二個問題。

Yes, Farooq, it's clean. So we are happy with the first half IFRS operating profit. We reported EUR845 million as you mentioned. And if I -- there were still some negative variances. If we add back all those negative variances, which is roughly EUR92 million for the group, we get to an adjusted number of around 937, which is strong.

是的，法魯克，它很乾淨。因此，我們對上半年的 IFRS 營業利潤感到滿意。正如您所說，我們報告的數字是 8.45 億歐元。如果我——仍然存在一些負面差異。如果我們把所有這些負差異加回去，對於該集團來說大約是 9,200 萬歐元，我們就會得到調整後的數字約為 937，這是一個強勁的數字。

Having said that, as we flagged at the full year, we do have a recurring VA interest accretion, which we deduct, let's say, EUR30 million to EUR35 million. So underlying around EUR900 million in the first half. Since FX has weakened. And hence, we're coming back into around the EUR850 million level, which is in the guided range. So a pretty good quarter, a pretty good half year for Aegon.

話雖如此，正如我們在全年所指出的，我們確實有經常性的 VA 利息累積，我們扣除了 3000 萬歐元至 3500 萬歐元。因此上半年的潛在收入約為 9 億歐元。由於外匯已經走弱。因此，我們回到了 8.5 億歐元左右的水平，這在指導範圍內。因此，對於 Aegon 來說，這是一個相當不錯的季度，也是一個相當不錯的半年。

So Farooq, on the rationale and everything related to what you asked on the potential move to the US A couple of things here. So the Aegon transformation, as we all know, is pretty profound, and we've done quite a number of steps over the last years to be where we are today. And we are now ready for this next step in the transformation. At the time that we were announcing the combination of our Dutch business with ASR and then the subsequent closing of that in July -- at the beginning of July of 2023.

那麼法魯克，關於理由以及與你詢問的可能遷往美國有關的所有問題，這裡有幾件事。眾所周知，Aegon 的轉型意義深遠，過去幾年我們採取了不少措施才達到今天的水平。現在我們已經為轉型的下一步做好了準備。當時我們宣布將荷蘭業務與 ASR 合併，並於 2023 年 7 月初完成合併。

We should all go back to that moment because it was in a very important moment. At that point in time, we were in the middle of implementing IFRS 17 -- had just implemented IFRS 17, and we were in the middle of disclosing it for the first time. That's number one. So at that point in time, there was not US GAAP available at all. That's number one.

我們都應該回到那一刻，因為那是一個非常重要的時刻。當時，我們正處於實施 IFRS 17 的過程中——剛剛實施了 IFRS 17，並且我們正處於首次披露該準則的過程中。這是第一點。所以在那個時候，根本沒有美國公認會計準則 (US GAAP)。這是第一點。

Number two, we were closing the transaction with ASR, which is a very comprehensive transaction. We needed to make sure that we embedded the group asset that appropriately operationally. We also moved as D&B could no longer be no legal basis and longer to maintain to be our group regulator.

第二，我們正在與 ASR 完成交易，這是一筆非常全面的交易。我們需要確保以適當的方式嵌入集團資產。我們也採取了行動，因為鄧白氏不再具有法律依據，不再繼續擔任我們的集團監管機構。

We moved our legal seat to Bermuda. And then subsequently, the BMA became our regulator, and we wanted to embed everything appropriately. And let's also not forget that in that same period because we closed the transaction on the July 4. But in June, that's a couple of weeks earlier, two weeks earlier, we had a Capital Markets Day in London where Transamerica was launching its strategy and its plan. And now we have two years behind us, and we can see how it's progressing.

我們將法定所在地遷至百慕達。隨後，英國醫學協會 (BMA) 成為我們的監管機構，我們希望將一切都適當地嵌入其中。我們也不要忘記，在同一時期，我們在 7 月 4 日完成了交易。但在六月份，也就是幾週前，兩週前，我們在倫敦舉辦了資本市場日，泛美公司在會上發布了其策略和計畫。現在我們已經過去了兩年，我們可以看到它的進展。

And at that time, we were at the start of that execution. And we are now two years further ahead, and we can now see that we have conviction that our US team is executing very well. And you can see the growth, et cetera, is really coming through and now the US business is 70% of the overall footprint of the group.

當時，我們正處於執行的開始階段。現在我們已經領先了兩年，我們確信我們的美國團隊表現非常出色。您可以看到，成長等確實正在實現，現在美國業務佔集團整體業務的 70%。

So the reality is that we are now ready for this next phase of the transformation. We believe it is logical that if the US is 70% of your business located in one of the driving largest market in the world, it is clearly the locomotive, if you will, that is able to carry entity to be the front part of the train that is Aegon Group.

事實上，我們現在已經為下一階段的轉型做好了準備。我們認為，如果美國佔貴公司業務的 70% 並且是全球最大的驅動市場之一，那麼它顯然是火車頭，可以承載實體成為 Aegon 集團這列火車的前部，這是合乎邏輯的。

And as we aim to grow the US business in the future, we want to be close a bit and moving our holding company to our largest market is a logical thing to do. So we're leaning in. That's what you're -- to the reality of our business.

由於我們的目標是在未來擴大美國業務，因此我們希望距離更近一些，將我們的控股公司遷移到我們最大的市場是合乎邏輯的事情。因此我們正傾身向前。這就是我們業務的現實情況。

And at this point in time, we are ready to do so. We have done a lot of work, but we aim to -- we need to discuss the public domain with a number of stakeholders, all the implications one of the most important stakeholder groups being our own employees, the works councils, all the implications for them. And then we will -- and also a number of other stakeholders and then we will conclude the review before the Capital Markets Day and then share the results of that review with you.

目前，我們已經做好了這樣做的準備。我們已經做了很多工作，但我們的目標是——我們需要與許多利益相關者討論公共領域，所有影響，其中最重要的利害關係人群體之一是我們自己的員工、工會委員會，以及對他們的所有影響。然後，我們將與其他一些利害關係人一起，在資本市場日之前完成審查，然後與你們分享審查結果。

So just -- I'm really sorry to jump in on taking time, but has there been any regulatory pressure to do this?

所以只是——我真的很抱歉佔用了這麼多時間，但是是否有任何監管壓力要求我這樣做？

No.

不。

Iain Pearce, Exane BNP Paribas.

伊恩·皮爾斯，法國巴黎銀行 Exane。

Hi, morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. They're all around the redomiciliation. First, if you could just touch on what you think the main challenges will be of potentially redomiciling obviously, you flagged US GAAP, but just sort of what you think the main challenges of the move would be? And have you had any conversations with your main shareholder about the move? I mean clearly, that article of association might cause some problems for them with a redomiciliation potentially.

大家早安。感謝您回答我的問題。他們都圍繞著遷冊事宜。首先，您能否簡單談談遷移公司所在地可能面臨的主要挑戰，您顯然提到了美國公認會計準則 (US GAAP)，但您認為遷移公司所在地的主要挑戰是什麼？您是否與主要股東討論過此舉措？我的意思是，很明顯，該章程可能會為他們的遷冊帶來一些問題。

And then the second one is just around the asset allocation opportunities of redomiciling and moving to a US regulated entity. Do you see one of the main benefits of -- and is the plan to really re-risk the asset portfolio in the US and increased private asset allocations as part of this redomiciliation? Thank you.

第二個是關於重新註冊和遷移到美國監管實體的資產配置機會。您是否看到了其中的一個主要好處——作為此次遷冊的一部分，該計劃是否真的會重新承擔美國資產組合的風險並增加私人資產配置？謝謝。

Thank you very much Iain. I'll take the first couple of questions. And on your last question, I'll hand it over to Duncan. So if you look at the key challenges. So first of all, let's clear there anything association Aegon.

非常感謝伊恩。我將回答前幾個問題。關於你的最後一個問題，我會把它交給鄧肯。所以如果你看主要的挑戰。因此首先，讓我們先明確一下這和 Aegon 有什麼關聯。

We cannot speak for them, obviously. They are informed, and we cannot speak for them. But they are in forte will continue to engage with them obviously in the coming period. When it comes to the main challenges, well, we expect this move -- head office processes in the US We need to build down head office processes here, and we need to make sure that we do that well. US GAAP is a key gating item. The -- we started with it, but the project has started, but it's implementing a new accounting standard. It's going to take some time.

顯然，我們不能代表他們發言。他們已獲悉消息，但我們不能代表他們發言。但他們顯然會在未來一段時間繼續與他們合作。說到主要挑戰，嗯，我們預計這項舉措——美國總部的流程我們需要在這裡建立總部流程，我們需要確保我們做得很好。美國公認會計準則 (US GAAP) 是關鍵的門檻項目。我們從這個專案開始，但專案已經開始，但它正在實施一項新的會計準則。這需要一些時間。

And that is a key thing to make sure we do right. And of course, in the meantime, we need to make sure that this transition process is appropriately change managed and those, I would say, are the key things to mention here. When it comes to the asset allocation opportunity potentially of the Duncan?

這是確保我們做正確事情的關鍵。當然，同時，我們需要確保這個過渡過程得到適當的變革管理，我想說，這些是這裡要提到的關鍵事項。那麼鄧肯家族潛在的資產配置機會是什麼呢？

Yes. I think no impact on the redomicilation on our allocation choices opportunity. We manage our entities on a local capital basis. So we're already operating under the US statutory or Transamerica, and we have asset allocation appropriate to our liabilities in that market, and I see no impact from our formal redomicilation.

是的。我認為重新安置不會對我們的分配選擇機會產生影響。我們根據當地資本來管理我們的實體。因此，我們已經在美國法定機構或 Transamerica 的框架下開展業務，並且我們在該市場中的資產配置與我們負債相適應，我認為正式遷址不會產生任何影響。

Nasib Ahmed, UBS.

瑞銀的納西布·艾哈邁德（Nasib Ahmed）。

Morning. Thanks for taking my questions. So first one on just M&A. You've still got the financial assets. There's been a big variable annuity deal where I think the counterparty managed to get over the line on the risk, and that was one of the blockers for you guys, I think. So any thoughts on kind of third-party actions on the EUR3.3 billion locked in? And then on the provide anything that you would potentially buy?

早晨。感謝您回答我的問題。第一個問題僅涉及併購。你仍然擁有金融資產。有一筆大額的變額年金交易，我認為交易對手設法避開了風險界限，我認為這是你們面臨的障礙之一。那麼，對於鎖定的 33 億歐元，第三方採取什麼行動，您有什麼看法？然後提供任何您可能購買的東西？

And how does the US redomicilation help with M&A on the acquisition side? Second one is on OCG versus IFRS in the US So Duncan, you raised the guide on the IFRS by EUR50 million, but I think the OCG guide stays the same. What's the difference? Why haven't you raised the OCG guide in the US? Thank you.

那麼，美國遷冊對於併購有何幫助？第二個是關於美國的 OCG 與 IFRS 的比較，所以 Duncan，你將 IFRS 的指南提高了 5000 萬歐元，但我認為 OCG 指南保持不變。有什麼區別？為什麼你們沒有在美國推出OCG指南？謝謝。

Yes. So I'll take the M&A side and then you can do financial asset, Duncan on the piece about the OCG. So on acquisitions, same as we mentioned before, it's very much linked to our strategy. We want to grow like anybody, but any company wants to grow. So if we see an opportunity that makes sense and it strengthens our business and it makes sense both for financial criteria and nonfinancial criteria, then we will certainly look at it.

是的。因此，我將採取併購方面的做法，然後你可以做金融資產，鄧肯 (Duncan) 就 OCG 發表了看法。因此，關於收購，正如我們之前提到的，它與我們的策略密切相關。我們和任何人一樣都希望成長，但任何公司都希望成長。因此，如果我們看到一個有意義的機會，它可以加強我們的業務，並且對於財務標準和非財務標準都有意義，那麼我們肯定會考慮它。

We will be disciplined. We're not going to do any M&A unless we believe that we can integrate it and that we will create value for our stockholders. Now the US is a large market is our largest market. So being there physically with your head office, of course, and being closer to that market on a daily basis, obviously, would be positioning yourself more beneficial for that. But our M&A approach has not changed to what we mentioned before. Duncan?

我們將嚴守紀律。除非我們相信我們能夠整合並能為股東創造價值，否則我們不會進行任何併購。現在美國是一個大市場，也是我們最大的市場。因此，當然，如果能在總部設立實體，並且每天都能更接近市場，那麼顯然會讓自己處於更有利的地位。但我們的併購方式並沒有像我們之前提到的改變。鄧肯？

Two separate questions. On the financial assets, we continue to look at our our unilateral, bilateral and third-party options on the businesses. We've been doing a couple of years. And should the transaction presents itself, which we find attractive for our shareholders, if they make sense, we'll do it. If not, we won't focus on unilateral or bilateral traction.

兩個獨立的問題。在金融資產方面，我們繼續關注我們的單邊、雙邊和第三方業務選擇。我們已經做了幾年了。如果交易出現，而我們認為這對我們的股東具有吸引力，如果交易合理，我們就會去做。如果不是，我們就不會注意單邊或雙邊的牽引。

So no real change. We just continue to look at all our options as we have been doing for the last couple of years. . On the guidance, well, two things. Partly, the guidance reflects what we actually see in our actuals on a clean basis in the half year. So we saw -- we've seen that the US operating profit performed well in the first half under IFRS, and that reflects, therefore, in the raised guidance as we expect the rate continue and add on OTG, where we performed more in line with our previous guidance.

因此沒有真正的改變。我們只是繼續考慮所有的選擇，就像過去幾年一直在做的那樣。。關於指導，嗯，有兩件事。在某種程度上，該指引反映了我們在半年內實際看到的情況。因此，我們看到 - 我們已經看到，根據 IFRS，美國上半年的營業利潤表現良好，因此，這反映在上調的指導中，因為我們預計利率將繼續上升，並增加 OTG，我們的表現更符合我們先前的指導。

And hence, that's driven the ungained balance there. Bear in mind, there are quite material differences in the way, for example, growth is treatment the two regimes. So in the US regulatory regime as you grow into a new business strain, which is pressing in the near term. Under IFRS, you create CSM, which come through in earnings relatively quickly.

因此，這就導致了那裡未實現的平衡。請記住，在處理這兩個制度的問題等方面，成長方式存在著相當大的實質差異。因此，在美國的監管制度下，隨著新業務的成長，短期內會出現緊迫的情況。根據 IFRS，您可以建立 CSM，它可以相對較快地獲利。

Farquhar Murray, Autonomous.

法誇爾·默里，自治。

Morning all. A couple of questions from my side, just mainly on the discussion. Obviously, it's been debated for a few years and does not seem a bit of a foregone conclusion, but I just wondered if you have a sense, therefore, on the actual life project costs of the US GAAP implementation. And then obviously getting closer to the US business makes a lot of sense, but I just wondered where that leaves your approach on the rest of the global footprint. Thanks.

大家早安。我這邊有幾個問題，主要在討論。顯然，這個問題已經爭論了好幾年，而且似乎還沒有定論，但我只是想知道您是否了解美國 GAAP 實施的實際壽命專案成本。那麼顯然更接近美國業務是很有意義的，但我只是想知道這會對您的全球其他業務產生什麼影響。謝謝。

Yes. So first of all, the costs are going to be part of the review, and we'll update you on the, let's say, on the outgoing to review at the Capital Markets Day. When it comes to the total footprint, well, as you know, we've set ourselves a perimeter in 2020 when I joined the company. We're now in that perimeter, and we have a strategy to improve and to create advantaged business in that perimeter. And that is unchanged.

是的。首先，成本將成為審查的一部分，我們將在資本市場日向您通報審查的最新情況。說到整體足跡，嗯，如你所知，當我加入公司時，我們在 2020 年設定了一個範圍。我們現在處於那個邊界，我們有一個策略來改善和創造那個邊界內的優勢業務。這一點沒有改變。

Benoit Petrarque, Kepler Cheuvreux.

伯努瓦·佩特拉克，開普勒·舍弗勒。

Yes, good morning. So yes, the first one is actually on your -- ASR stake. What is your initial thoughts around your stake also going forward, looking at the potential relocation in the US It sounds like it becomes less core than before. And then maybe on ahead of the potential relocation, do you plan to initiate deleveraging actions and yielding holding levels. So any plans to maybe refocus more on deleveraging next year? Thank you.

是的，早安。是的，第一個實際上是你的——ASR 股份。考慮到可能將股份轉移到美國，您對未來股份的最初想法是什麼？聽起來它不像以前那麼核心了。那麼也許在潛在的遷移之前，您是否計劃啟動去槓桿行動並保持收益水準。那麼，明年是否有計畫更重視去槓桿？謝謝。

Duncan, can you take those questions.

鄧肯，你能回答這些問題嗎？

Yes, nothing changes on either of those fronts. So again, today, we announced a review, we'll conclude on that review with the Capital Markets Day. And if we decide to pose it will take two to three years, the leverage, no need to change our leverage given our footprint is what it is today. And on ASR, we've been consistent that we're a long-term patient holder. And there are two potential reasons we would dispose of that either we have an alternative lease for that or we feel that the price is reflect the intrinsic body. No change in either based on the announcement today.

是的，這兩個方面都沒有任何改變。所以，今天我們再次宣布了一項審查，我們將在資本市場日結束該審查。如果我們決定提出挑戰，這將需要兩到三年的時間，而鑑於我們的足跡就是今天，我們不需要改變我們的影響力。對於 ASR，我們始終堅持我們是長期患者。我們處理這個問題有兩個潛在原因，要嘛我們有替代租約，要嘛我們認為價格反映了內在因素。根據今天的公告，兩者都沒有變化。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Your next question comes from the line of Dusan Calabasas from ING. Jason, it looks like we've lost your connection. Can you hear us?

您的下一個問題來自 ING 的 Dusan Calabasas。傑森，看起來我們失去了與你的連結。你聽得到我們說話嗎？

Yes, hi, good morning.

是的，你好，早安。

Jason It looks like we've lost your connection. Can you hear us?

傑森：看起來我們失去了與你的連結。你聽得到我們說話嗎？

My suggestion, operator, as you move to the next question, and then if Jason comes back, we'll take his question, obviously.

接線員，我的建議是，當您轉到下一個問題時，如果傑森回來，我們顯然會回答他的問題。

Michael Huttner, Berenberg.

邁克爾赫特納，貝倫貝格。

Hi there. On US mortality slide 17, can you talk a little bit about the unfavorable claims experience. I remember a figure, I think it was EUR66 million in Q1. So normally, you would have 33 million because of normal seasonality and there was EUR33 million on top. I just want to get a feel it's for which way it's going versus your assumptions?

你好呀。關於美國死亡率第 17 張投影片，您能否談談不利的索賠經驗。我記得一個數字，我認為第一季是 6600 萬歐元。因此，通常情況下，由於正常的季節性，你會有 3300 萬歐元，而且還有 3300 萬歐元的額外收入。我只是想了解它的發展方向與您的假設是否一致？

And the second question is, I mean, sorry, Lard, I didn't hear the answer on tools. I did the numbers. So on the savings and investment Q2 2025, you had a EUR2 billion net inflow. It was zero in Q2 2024. And you mentioned pool plan. And I'm really sorry, I didn't hear the number on that. Thank you.

第二個問題是，對不起，拉德，我沒有聽到有關工具的答案。我做了數字。因此，在 2025 年第二季的儲蓄和投資方面，您的淨流入額為 20 億歐元。2024 年第二季為零。您提到了泳池計劃。真的很抱歉，我沒有聽到那個號碼。謝謝。

$1.9 billion. The pool plan, you guessed it was EUR2 billion. You're pretty close. It was EUR1.9 million. For your other question, I will hand it Lard.

19億美元。正如您所猜測的，這個資金池計劃價值 20 億歐元。你已經很接近了。金額為190萬歐元。對於您的另一個問題，我會把它交給 Lard。

Michael, we had the overall mortality in the US in the second quarter was slightly positive. I would say more or less in line with our best estimate expectation slightly positive. So since the mortality update we did last year, we had positive 3Q, 4Q, negative 1Q, positive Q3 this year, and we remain comfortable with our overall.

邁克爾，我們發現美國第二季的整體死亡率略有上升。我想說這或多或少與我們的最佳估計預期相符，略微積極。因此，自去年我們更新死亡率以來，今年第三季和第四季的死亡率均為正值，第一季為負值，第三季為正值，我們對整體情況仍然感到滿意。

Brilliant. That's very helpful.

傑出的。這非常有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. We have no further questions at this time. I would now like to hand the call back over to Yves Cormier for closing remarks.

謝謝。目前我們沒有其他問題。現在我想將發言權交還給 Yves Cormier，請他做最後發言。

Well, Thank you very much, Jerry, before I hand over to Yves. We will make sure we reach out to Jason times for question.

好吧，非常感謝你，傑瑞，然後我把麥克風交給伊芙。我們將確保及時聯繫 Jason 回答問題。

All right. Well, thank you, operator. After we conclude today's Q&A session. Should you have any remaining questions, please get in touch with us at the Investor Relations team. And on behalf of Lard and Duncan, I would like to thank you for your attention. Thanks again, and have a good day.

好的。好的，謝謝您，接線生。今天的問答環節結束後。如果您還有任何問題，請聯絡我們的投資者關係團隊。我謹代表拉德和鄧肯感謝您的關注。再次感謝，祝您有美好的一天。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。