ADTRAN Holdings Inc (ADTN) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Rob, and I will be your conference operator. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the ADTRAN Holdings fourth-quarter 2024 financial results conference call.

早安。我叫 Rob，將擔任本次電話會議的接線員。此刻，我謹代表主辦方歡迎各位參加 ADTRAN Holdings 2024 年第四季財務業績電話會議。

(Operator Instruction)

(接線員指示)

Thank you. Mr. Peter Schuman, Vice President, Investor relations, you may begin your conference call.

謝謝。投資人關係副總裁 Peter Schuman 先生，您可以開始本次電話會議。

Thank you, Rob. Welcome and thank you for joining us today for ADTRAN Holdings' fourth-quarter 2024 financial results conference call, and welcome to all those joining by webcast.

謝謝你，Rob。歡迎各位，並感謝今天加入我們參加 ADTRAN Holdings 2024 年第四季財務業績電話會議，也歡迎透過網路直播收聽的各位。

During the course of this conference call, ADTRAN representatives expect to make forward-looking statements that reflect management's best judgment based on factors currently known. However, these statements involve risks and uncertainties, including the risks detailed in our earnings release, our annual report on Form 10-K, and our filings with the SEC. These risks and uncertainties could cause actual results to differ materially from those in our forward-looking statements which may be made during the course of this call. We undertake no obligation to update any statements to reflect events that occur after this call.

在本次電話會議進行期間，ADTRAN 代表預期將發表前瞻性陳述，該等陳述反映管理層基於目前已知因素所作的最佳判斷。然而，這些陳述涉及風險與不確定性，包括我們新聞稿、Form 10-K 年度報告以及向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交之文件中所詳述的風險。這些風險與不確定性可能導致實際結果與我們在本次電話會議期間所作的前瞻性陳述存在重大差異。我們不承擔任何義務更新任何陳述，以反映本次電話會議後發生的事件。

During the course of the call, we refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of non-GAAP to GAAP measures and certain additional information are also included in our investor presentation and in our earnings release. We have not provided reconciliation of our first-quarter 2025 guidance with regards to non-GAAP operating margin because we cannot predict and quantify without unreasonable effort all of the adjustments that may occur during the period. The investor presentation has been updated and is available for download on the ADTRAN Investor Relations website.

在本次電話會議期間，我們將提及若干非 GAAP 財務衡量指標。非 GAAP 與 GAAP 指標之調節表及若干補充資訊亦載於我們的投資人簡報與財報新聞稿中。我們未提供 2025 年第一季指引中非 GAAP 營業利益率的調節，因為我們無法在不付出不合理努力的情況下，預測並量化期間內可能發生的所有調整項目。投資人簡報已更新，並可於 ADTRAN 投資人關係網站下載。

In addition, financial measures during the course of this conference call are preliminary estimates. They consequently remain subject to the company's internal controls and procedures and are subject to risks and uncertainties, including, among others, changes in connection with the quarter-end or year-end adjustments.

此外，本次電話會議期間所提及的財務數據為初步估計。因此，該等數據仍須遵循公司內部控制與程序，並受風險與不確定性影響，包括但不限於與季末或年末調整相關的變動。

Turning to the agenda, Tom Stanton, ADTRAN Holdings' CEO and Chairman of the Board, will provide the key investment highlights for the fourth-quarter 2024 and Uli Dopfer, our Senior Vice President and CFO, will review the quarterly financial performance in detail, and then we'll take any questions that you may have.

接著說明議程：ADTRAN Holdings 執行長暨董事長 Tom Stanton 將分享 2024 年第四季的主要投資亮點；資深副總裁暨財務長（CFO）Uli Dopfer 將詳細回顧本季財務表現；之後我們將回答各位的提問。

I now like to turn the call over to Tom Stanton.

現在我想把電話交給 Tom Stanton。

Thank you, Peter. Good morning, everyone.

謝謝你，Peter。各位早安。

ADTRAN executed well during Q4 with improvements across several key operating metrics. Revenue increased sequentially. Our non-GAAP gross margins remained strong and our non-GAAP operating profits continued to expand. Revenue was up across all regions with non-US revenue of 10% quarter over quarter.

ADTRAN 在第四季執行表現良好，多項關鍵營運指標均有所改善。營收較前一季成長。我們的非 GAAP 毛利率維持強勁，非 GAAP 營業利潤也持續擴大。各地區營收皆成長，其中美國以外地區營收季增 10%。

Diving deeper into the details, optical networking revenue showed meaningful growth in Q4 with a 16% sequential increase, supporting our belief that revenue bottomed in Q3. Our optical networking solutions growth was up across all regions, led by an uptick in business from a mix of service providers, internet content providers, and enterprise customers.

進一步看細節，光網路營收在第四季呈現顯著成長，較前一季增加 16%，支持我們認為營收已於第三季觸底的判斷。我們的光網路解決方案在各地區均成長，主要受惠於來自多元客群的業務增加，包括電信服務供應商、網際網路內容供應商以及企業客戶。

Optical networking solutions added 18 new customers during the fourth quarter. These new customers included a broad mix of fiber broadband customers, government agencies, utilities, and large-scale enterprises. The growth in our customers matches the diversity and network upgrade catalyst with our optical customer base.

光網路解決方案在第四季新增 18 家新客戶。這些新客戶涵蓋多元組合，包括光纖寬頻客戶、政府機關、公用事業，以及大型企業。客戶成長反映了我們光網路客戶基礎的多樣性，以及推動網路升級的動能。

In some use cases, it is broadband operators upgrading their backhaul networks to 100 gig or regional transport networks to 400 or 800 gig. In other scenarios, it is internet content providers upgrading capacity between large-scale compute sites or large enterprises or government institutions upgrading and securing their private networks. Under any of these scenarios, these customers need scalable, secure, and automated optical networks from a vendor that they can trust. We address all of these needs.

在某些應用情境中，是寬頻營運商將回程網路升級至 100G，或將區域傳輸網路升級至 400G 或 800G。在其他情境中，則是網際網路內容供應商提升大型運算站點之間的容量，或大型企業與政府機構升級並強化其私有網路的安全性。無論哪種情境，這些客戶都需要可擴充、安全且自動化的光網路，並且需要來自其信賴供應商的解決方案。我們能滿足上述所有需求。

With continued advancements in our portfolio, improving customer inventory levels, and growing opportunities across multiple verticals in the optical segment; we are optimistic about the growth opportunities moving forward.

隨著我們產品組合持續進步、客戶庫存水位改善，以及光學領域跨多個垂直產業的機會增加；我們對未來的成長機會保持樂觀。

Our access and aggregation solutions grew 8% sequentially driven by fiber footprint expansion and network upgrades. The quarter's growth was led by the US customers deploying multi-gig fiber services. Investment remains strong among service providers in the US and Europe, and we are upgrading and expanding their fiber who are upgrading and expanding their fiber footprint.

我們的接取與匯聚（access and aggregation）解決方案較前一季成長 8%，主要由光纖覆蓋範圍擴張與網路升級所帶動。本季成長主要由美國客戶部署多 Gig 光纖服務所驅動。美國與歐洲的服務供應商投資仍然強勁，而我們正協助其升級並擴大光纖覆蓋範圍。

We remain the leading vendor option given our portfolio and presence in our target markets. During the quarter, we began shipping infrastructure to 12 new fiber-to-the-premise service providers, continuing our trend of new customer acquisition in this segment. With a strong pipeline of expansion opportunities and network upgrades, we expect meaningful revenue growth in this area.

憑藉我們的產品組合以及在目標市場的布局，我們仍是領先的供應商選擇。本季我們開始向 12 家新的光纖到府（FTTP）服務供應商出貨基礎設施，延續我們在此細分市場持續取得新客戶的趨勢。在擴張機會與網路升級的強勁管線支持下，我們預期此領域營收將有顯著成長。

Our subscriber solutions category had another strong quarter, although slightly down sequentially, that's following two strong quarter-over-quarter increases. The strength in CPE is directly attributed to fiber access footprint expansion that we have experienced. We expect meaningful growth in CPA as our customers work to connect more homes, businesses, and critical infrastructure sites with fiber.

我們的用戶端（subscriber）解決方案類別本季再度表現強勁，雖然較前一季略有下滑，但此前已連續兩季大幅季增。CPE 的強勁表現，直接歸因於我們所經歷的光纖接取覆蓋範圍擴張。隨著客戶致力以光纖連接更多家庭、企業與關鍵基礎設施站點，我們預期 CPA 將有顯著成長。

Within the category, we added 23 new service provider customers during the fourth quarter. Within our product pipeline, we will be introducing several new multi-gig Wi-Fi 7 products over the next six months to help continue to drive new demand for a growing base of large and regional service providers.

在該類別中，我們於第四季新增 23 家新的服務供應商客戶。在產品管線方面，未來六個月我們將推出多款新的多 Gig Wi‑Fi 7 產品，以持續帶動需求，服務日益擴大的大型與區域性服務供應商客群。

The direction in our industry is clear. Our customers need fiber networks that scale from optical core to the customer premise, while delivering best-in-class subscriber experiences through better insights and automation. We have made major upgrades across all aspects of our portfolio from our recently introduced industry leading 800-gig transport solution, the M-Flex to the industry's highest density, most power efficient 10-gig fiber access platform in our SDX family. We have the leading fiber infrastructure platforms that customers need to build their networks of the future.

我們產業的方向已十分明確。我們的客戶需要可從光學核心一路擴展到用戶端的光纖網路，同時透過更佳的洞察與自動化，提供同級最佳的用戶體驗。我們已在產品組合各方面進行重大升級，從近期推出、業界領先的 800G 傳輸解決方案 M‑Flex，到我們 SDX 系列中業界最高密度、最省電的 10G 光纖接取平台。我們擁有客戶打造未來網路所需的領先光纖基礎設施平台。

On the customer premise side, we have the connectivity solutions for nearly any need, whether it's 10-gig Wi-Fi platforms for residential services or 100-gig business services, we have high performance and cost-effective solutions that offer world-class user experiences. These networking platforms are complemented by our Mosaic software suite that automates and simplifies all aspects of our portfolio, from automating the provisioning and monitoring of complex optical networks, to automating and optimizing the performance of multi-gig Wi-Fi networks.

在用戶端方面，我們提供幾乎可滿足各種需求的連線解決方案；無論是住宅服務的 10G Wi‑Fi 平台，或是 100G 企業服務，我們都提供高效能且具成本效益的方案，帶來世界級的使用者體驗。這些網路平台並由我們的 Mosaic 軟體套件加以強化，可自動化並簡化我們產品組合的各個面向，從自動化複雜光網路的開通與監控，到自動化並最佳化多 Gig Wi‑Fi 網路的效能。

The breadth and capabilities of these software applications paired with our networking platforms differentiates us from our competition and positions us for additional success moving forward.

這些軟體應用的廣度與能力，搭配我們的網路平台，使我們有別於競爭對手，並讓我們在未來更具成功優勢。

Turning to our operational performance for the year, we made substantial progress during 2024. Although revenue for the year decreased due to softer end markets, including customers focusing on reducing inventory and higher interest rates, the non-GAAP gross margin for the year expanded to 41.9% on a non-GAAP basis from 39.3% the prior year. Reflecting higher efficiency and value realization directly related to our operational efficiencies and low overhead costs that were driven by both site and product consolidation.

談到我們本年度的營運表現，我們在 2024 年取得了重大進展。儘管由於終端市場走弱（包括客戶專注於去化庫存以及利率上升）導致全年營收下滑，但全年非 GAAP 毛利率由前一年的 39.3% 擴大至 41.9%（以非 GAAP 基礎計）。這反映出更高的效率與價值實現，直接源自我們的營運效率提升與低間接成本，而這些是由據點與產品整併所帶動。

Non-GAAP operating profit also meaningfully improved, turning positive for the full-year 2024 compared to the negative figures earlier in the year. This growth underscores our ability to adapt to evolving market conditions and drive profitability.

非 GAAP 營業利益也顯著改善，2024 全年由先前的負值轉為正值。這項成長凸顯我們有能力因應不斷演變的市場環境並推動獲利能力。

Additionally, we achieved success in optimizing our cash flow. Net cash provided by operating activities incurred to[ $103.1 million] during 2024 (corrected by company after the call), a significant improvement compared to net cash used in operating activities of $45.6 million during 2023. Our free cash flow of $39.9 million during calendar 2024 improved by $128.7 million from the prior year. This focus on operational efficiency and financial discipline positions us well for a substantial future growth.

此外，我們在優化現金流方面也取得成果。2024 年營業活動提供之淨現金達到[ 1.031 億美元]（公司於電話會議後更正），相較於 2023 年營業活動使用之淨現金 4,560 萬美元，顯著改善。我們在 2024 曆年之自由現金流為 3,990 萬美元，較前一年改善 1.287 億美元。對營運效率與財務紀律的重視，使我們在未來實現可觀成長方面具備良好定位。

This past quarter's strong performance combined with our improved outlook reinforces our confidence in the long-term target operating model of gross margin percentages in the low-to-mid 40s and an operating profit margin percentage in the double digits.

上季的強勁表現，加上我們改善的展望，進一步強化我們對長期目標營運模式的信心：毛利率維持在 40% 初至中段區間，營業利益率達到雙位數百分比。

In summary, we had a good quarter of improved financial results, strong bookings and positive momentum entering 2025. We continue to grow our customer base and invest in our strategic platforms with major opportunities in the US and Europe still ahead of us.

總結而言，我們本季財務結果改善、接單強勁，並以正向動能邁入 2025 年。我們持續擴大客戶基礎並投資於策略平台，在美國與歐洲仍有重大機會在前方。

With that, I will turn things over to Uli to provide a few of our financial results. Following Uli's remarks, we will open it up to any questions you may have. Uli?

接下來我把時間交給 Uli，請他說明部分財務結果。在 Uli 發言後，我們將開放各位提問。Uli？

Thank you, Tom, and thank you, everyone, for joining us on the call this morning.

謝謝你，Tom，也謝謝各位今天早上參加我們的電話會議。

To begin, I will first walk through our preliminary Q4 2024 financial performance and then I will discuss our expectations for Q1 2025.

首先，我將先說明我們 2024 年第四季的初步財務表現，接著討論我們對 2025 年第一季的預期。

Q4 revenue was $242.9 million, a sequential increase of $15.1 million or 7% and above the midpoint of our guidance. Revenue increased $17.4 million year over year or 8%. Our network solutions segment delivered $197 million, accounting for approximately 81% of total revenue in Q4, compared to 80% in the prior quarter.

第四季營收為 2.429 億美元，較前一季增加 1,510 萬美元（或 7%），且高於我們財測區間的中點。營收年增 1,740 萬美元（或 8%）。我們的網路解決方案事業部門貢獻 1.97 億美元，約占第四季總營收的 81%，相較前一季為 80%。

Our services and support segment delivered $45.8 million or 19% of total revenue in Q4, compared to 20% in the preceding quarter. From a product category perspective, access and aggregation delivered $72.7 million or approximately 30% of total revenue, and increased 8% sequentially.

我們的服務與支援事業部門在第四季貢獻 4,580 萬美元，約占總營收的 19%，相較前一季為 20%。以產品類別來看，接取與匯聚（access and aggregation）貢獻 7,270 萬美元，約占總營收的 30%，且較前一季成長 8%。

Our optical networking solution category was $81.6 million or 34% of total revenue. This was up 16% sequentially. Subscriber solutions was [$88.6 million] or 36% of total revenue(corrected by company after the call). This was down 2% sequentially. Non-US and US revenues were 57% or 43% of total revenue, respectively. We had one customer who represented more than 10% of our Q4 revenue.

我們的光網路解決方案類別為 8,160 萬美元，約占總營收的 34%。較前一季成長 16%。用戶解決方案為[ 8,860 萬美元]，約占總營收的 36%（公司於電話會議後更正）。較前一季下滑 2%。非美國與美國營收分別占總營收的 57% 與 43%。第四季有一位客戶的營收占比超過 10%。

Non-GAAP gross margin during the quarter was 42.0%, a sequential decline of 11 basis points. Non-GAAP operating expenses in Q4 were $94 million, reflecting a quarter-over-quarter increase due to higher deferred compensation and increased sales commissions.

本季非 GAAP 毛利率為 42.0%，較前一季下滑 11 個基點。第四季非 GAAP 營業費用為 9,400 萬美元，反映因遞延薪酬較高及銷售佣金增加而帶來的季增。

For Q4, our non-GAAP operating profit was $7.9 million or 3.3% of revenue and above the midpoint of our guidance range. This compares to a non-GAAP operating profit of $2.5 million or 1.1% of revenue in Q3 2024 and a loss of $3.2 million in the year-ago quarter. The improvement in operating margin and profitability was driven by higher revenue, a healthy growth margin and effective management of our fixed costs.

第四季非 GAAP 營業利益為 790 萬美元，約占營收的 3.3%，且高於我們財測區間的中點。相較之下，2024 年第三季非 GAAP 營業利益為 250 萬美元（占營收 1.1%），而去年同期則為虧損 320 萬美元。營業利益率與獲利能力的改善，主要來自較高的營收、健康的毛利率，以及對固定成本的有效管理。

Non-GAAP tax expense in Q4 was $3.1 million. We generated a small amount of non-GAAP net income during Q4 and were break even on an earnings per share basis. This compares to a loss of $0.05 per share in Q3 2024.

第四季非 GAAP 所得稅費用為 310 萬美元。我們在第四季產生小幅非 GAAP 淨利，按每股盈餘計算為損益兩平。相較之下，2024 年第三季每股虧損為 0.05 美元。

Turning to the balance sheet and cash flow statement. First, I'd like to highlight for the full year 2024, operating cash flow was over $100 million, a nearly $150-million swing from the prior year. During Q4, net working capital decreased by $4.7 million quarter over quarter to $276.9 million. Trade accounts receivables were $178 million at quarter end, resulting in DSO of 67 days. This compares to 70 days in the prior quarter.

接著談資產負債表與現金流量表。首先我要強調，2024 全年營業現金流超過 1 億美元，較前一年幾乎出現 1.5 億美元的轉變。第四季淨營運資金較前一季減少 470 萬美元至 2.769 億美元。期末應收帳款為 1.78 億美元，對應的 DSO 為 67 天。相較前一季為 70 天。

Our inventories were down to $269.3 million at the end of the quarter. Accounts payable were $170.5 million. DPOs were 72 days versus 67 days the prior quarter. Operating cash flow was $5.8 million, compared to $42.0 million in Q3 2024, mainly due to the timing of receivables at year end.

我們的存貨在季末降至 2.693 億美元。應付帳款為 1.705 億美元。DPO為 72 天，相較前一季為 67 天。營業現金流為 580 萬美元，相較 2024 年第三季為 4,200 萬美元，主要是因年末應收款項入帳時點所致。

As I shared, cash flow for the year was $103.1 million, compared to negative $45.6 million for the full year of 2023. We had free cash flow of negative $10.4 million in Q4, compared to positive $23.2 million of free cash flow in Q3 2024. The lower free cash flow number for the fourth quarter was the result of the lower operating cash flow.

如我所述，全年現金流為 1.031 億美元，相較 2023 全年為負 4,560 萬美元。第四季自由現金流為負 1,040 萬美元，相較 2024 年第三季自由現金流為正 2,320 萬美元。第四季自由現金流較低，係因營業現金流較低所致。

For the year, we generate a positive free cash flow of $39.9 million, an increase of $128.7 million from the full-year 2023. At the end of Q4, cash and cash equivalent were $77.6 million a year -- a quarter-over-quarter decrease of $10.9 million.

全年我們產生正的自由現金流 3,990 萬美元，較 2023 全年增加 1.287 億美元。第四季末，現金及約當現金為 7,760 萬美元，較前一季減少 1,090 萬美元。

In 2025, strengthening our balance sheet is a key strategic priority. We have taken several significant actions in this direction. As previously communicated, we are in the process of selling our unused corporate real estate, which is now listed on our balance sheet as assets held for sale.

在 2025 年，強化資產負債表是關鍵策略優先事項。我們已朝此方向採取數項重大行動。如先前所溝通，我們正進行出售未使用的公司不動產，目前已在資產負債表中列為待出售資產。

We are also working to monetize other non-core assets. Due diligence by interested parties continues, although we are limited based on NDAs on what we can share. Our intent is to substantially strengthen our financial position during 2025, aiming to exit the year with a positive net cash position.

我們也在努力將其他非核心資產變現。有興趣的各方仍在進行盡職調查，但受限於保密協議（NDA），我們能分享的內容有限。我們的目標是在 2025 年大幅強化財務狀況，力求在年底以淨現金為正的狀態結束該年度。

In summary, although 2024 was challenging, we delivered solid operational execution. As we regain scale in our business, we anticipate an expanded operating margin. We do expect moderately higher operating expenses for 2025 in line with normalized payroll and benefit increases.

總結來說，儘管 2024 年充滿挑戰，我們仍交出穩健的營運執行成果。隨著我們的業務規模回升，我們預期營業利益率將擴大。我們也預期 2025 年的營業費用將溫和上升，以反映薪資與福利回到常態化的調升。

Turning now to our outlook for the first quarter. We expect revenue to range between $237.5 million to $252.5 million and a non-GAAP operating margin between 0% and 4%. Once again, additional financial information is available on ADTRAN's newly updated Investor Relations website at investors.adtran.com.

接著談我們對第一季的展望。我們預期營收介於 2.375 億美元至 2.525 億美元之間，非 GAAP 營業利益率介於 0% 至 4%。同樣地，更多財務資訊可在 ADTRAN 全新更新的投資人關係網站 investors.adtran.com 查閱。

This concludes the prepared remarks portion of the call, and I will now turn the call back over to Rob to begin the Q&A session.

以上為本次電話會議的事先準備講稿部分，接下來我將把電話交回給 Rob，開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Michael Genovese, Rosenblatt Securities.

Michael Genovese，Rosenblatt Securities。

Congratulations on the nice results. I guess I want to follow up on the balance sheet point. To begin, $112 million of net debt, if I got that right, exiting the quarter, so you want to be in a net cash position by the end of the year. That seems -- am I right that that seems fairly trivial with -- that a real estate sale and just cash generated from operations should be able to get us there easily and that -- and I guess my question is really -- is -- are there other assets like this anything in the business that could be sold and inventory? How much of this is going to be inventory and working capital as we -- so I guess just more detail on how we get to net cash and can we get much better than net cash break even by the end of the year?

恭喜取得不錯的成果。我想追問一下資產負債表的部分。首先，如果我沒聽錯的話，本季結束時淨負債為 1.12 億美元，而你們希望在年底達到淨現金部位。這看起來——我理解得對嗎——似乎相當容易達成：透過一筆不動產出售，再加上營運產生的現金應該就能輕鬆達標；那——我想問的其實是——是否還有其他類似的資產、或業務中的任何東西可以出售？以及存貨呢？在我們的過程中，有多少會來自存貨與營運資金的釋放？所以我想更詳細了解如何達到淨現金，以及到年底是否能做到遠優於淨現金損益兩平？

The answer to your question is yes, so just directly yes. The -- we do expect inventory to come down through the year. We do expect to be generating free cash flow through the year. And you're right with the asset sales that we're talking about that should be really easy -- as you know the biggest issue is timing asset sales, especially when you're talking about property and the market and we have some properties that are relatively unique, so we have to find the right buyer and it's got to match up.

你的問題答案是肯定的，直接說就是肯定。我們確實預期存貨會在今年逐步下降。我們也預期今年將產生自由現金流。而你說得沒錯，透過我們所談到的資產出售，達成目標應該很容易——如你所知，最大的問題在於資產出售的時點，尤其是涉及不動產時，還要看市場狀況；而且我們有些物件相對獨特，因此必須找到合適買家並且條件要能匹配。

Having said that, we have found some customers that are -- we have seen that alignment, but getting them to closure is the biggest thing. As far as the other asset sales, we've talked about anything that's non-strategic and our strategic areas are fairly easy to define. They are subscriber, fiber prem, and optical, and those are the businesses we're in, so things that don't fall in line that we would take a look at and we -- yeah, there's definitely there's a potential for us to move forward on some of those assets as we find the right buyers.

話雖如此，我們已經找到一些客戶——我們確實看到這種匹配，但要把交易推進到完成交割才是最關鍵的。至於其他資產出售，我們談的是任何非策略性的項目，而我們的策略領域其實相當容易界定。包括用戶接入（subscriber）、光纖用戶端設備（fiber prem）以及光學（optical），這些就是我們所處的業務領域；因此，凡是不符合這些方向的，我們都會評估——是的，當我們找到合適買家時，確實有機會推進處置其中一些資產。

Great. Yeah, absolutely. I guess my other one would be just on the sustainability of the telecom recovery since -- so I don't want to ask too many multi-part questions, but if I had the time, I would Europe and the US visibility to as we move beyond the first quarter to the rest of the quarters of the year, how would you describe visibility and the sources of visibility that make you feel better that we could have a sustained recovery throughout the year?

很好。是的，完全同意。我另外一個問題是關於電信業復甦的可持續性——我不想問太多多段式問題，但如果時間允許，我想問歐洲與美國的能見度：當我們走出第一季、進入今年其餘季度時，你會如何描述能見度，以及哪些能見度來源讓你更有信心今年能維持持續復甦？

Well, the best visibility is a purchase order and unfortunately, our business is typically more book and ship than maybe some longer term businesses, but they -- so the confidence that we have is typically number one based off of what we have in backlog and it's tangible and then the other is just planning from the different customer bases that we deal with. The environment is definitely picked up without a doubt. I mean, the last six months has been substantially different than the six months prior to that. Bookings have picked up.

嗯，最好的能見度就是採購訂單（purchase order）。不幸的是，我們的業務通常更偏向「接單即出貨」（book and ship），不像某些較長週期的業務；因此，我們的信心通常第一是基於手上的在手訂單（backlog），這是具體可見的；第二則是我們所服務的不同客戶群所提供的規劃資訊。毫無疑問，整體環境確實回溫了。我的意思是，過去六個月與再之前的六個月相比，差異非常明顯。接單量（bookings）已經回升。

In general, things, yeah, I mean just things just look more positive, but we really don't have a crystal ball. I can't tell you explicitly what I'm going to do in Q4 this year because I don't know. Q3 is still murky as well, right? But as that window comes in, we get stronger and stronger confidence and I can just say trending wise, things are looking very positive.

整體而言，是的，我是說各方面看起來更正面，但我們並沒有水晶球。我無法明確告訴你今年第四季我會做什麼，因為我不知道。第三季也仍然不明朗，對吧？但隨著時間窗口逐步拉近，我們的信心會越來越強；我只能說就趨勢而言，情況看起來非常正面。

Christian Schwab, Craig Hallam Capital Group.

Christian Schwab，Craig Hallam Capital Group。

Good quarter.

本季表現不錯。

Back to the inventory, you've done a significant job of reducing your inventory on your balance sheet over the last two quarters. Do you have a stated goal for inventory and what level do you think that could potentially be reduced to before you would need to maintain it for future growth objectives?

回到存貨，你們在過去兩個季度已大幅降低資產負債表上的存貨。你們是否有設定存貨目標？以及你認為在需要為未來成長目標維持一定水位之前，存貨可能還能降到什麼程度？

Yeah, you want to talk about our terms -- those turns. Go ahead.

是的，你想談談我們的周轉——那些周轉率。你來說吧。

Yeah, so currently our inventory returns are 2.2X, 2.1X, not where we want to be, not where we have been in the past, and our goal is to increase our inventory returns back up to in that 4-times range for the year. Obviously, this is a process that takes some time for this year, like Tom said during his part of the call earlier, we anticipated inventory will continue to come down throughout this year. And how much just depends on the demand profile from customers and how much additional material we need to buy from the outside in order to satisfy the demand.

好的，所以目前我們的存貨周轉率是 2.2 倍、2.1 倍，這不是我們想要的水準，也不是我們過去曾達到的水準；我們的目標是把存貨周轉率在今年提升回到約 4 倍的區間。顯然，這是一個需要時間的過程；如同 Tom 先前在電話會議中提到的，我們預期存貨在今年會持續下降。至於能下降多少，取決於客戶的需求輪廓，以及為了滿足需求我們還需要從外部額外採購多少物料。

So but overall, I would anticipate inventory will come down some, maybe not quite as significant as we have seen the first quarter of last year where we had a significant drop in inventory, but we are working through the process and anticipate a gradually decline in inventory.

不過整體而言，我預期存貨會再下降一些，可能不會像去年第一季那樣出現非常顯著的存貨大幅下滑，但我們正在推進這個流程，並預期存貨將逐步下降。

Yeah, I think the key is the way to think about it is 4 times inventory terms. That's really where we're comfortable there. We've been there before. We get much above that and we start having customer issues, so low-4s is a comfortable place for the company.

是的，我認為關鍵在於把它視為 4 倍的存貨周轉。那才是我們覺得舒適的水準。我們以前達到過。如果高於那個水準太多，我們就會開始出現客戶端的問題，所以 4 倍出頭（low-4s）是公司覺得舒適的位置。

Fantastic. And then, given the improved business environment that you're seeing, I know you have limited visibility, but we are coming off a pretty challenged industry environment in calendar 2024, would you expect revenues this year, although quarter-to-quarter volatility, but would you expect 10%-plus type of top-line growth this year? Does that seem fair?

太好了。另外，鑑於你們看到的商業環境改善，我知道能見度有限，但我們剛走出 2024 年這個相當艱困的產業環境；你是否預期今年營收——雖然季度間會有波動——但全年是否有機會達到 10% 以上的營收成長？這樣的看法合理嗎？

Fair (laughter) let me just explicitly say we really don't give full-year guidance. We know that there are numbers that are out there, we're aware of that, but we've had in the past struggle to get quarter guidance. So we're comfortable with the guidance range that we've given for the next quarter and I think I would go back to the first round of questions, which was the environment is definitely improving, so I don't want to mislead anybody there. The trend is definitely positive, but we start to see how this year plays out.

好（笑聲），我就明確說一下：我們確實不提供全年指引。我們知道外面有一些數字，我們也有注意到，但過去我們連季度指引都曾經很難掌握。所以我們對於已提供的下一季指引區間感到安心；我也想回到第一輪問題，也就是整體環境確實正在改善，因此我不想在這點上誤導任何人。趨勢確實是正向的，但我們會再觀察今年接下來的發展。

Ryan Koontz, Needham & Company.

Ryan Koontz，Needham & Company。

Great, thanks guys. Nice job here.

太好了，謝謝各位。這次表現很不錯。

Uli, around the inventory, do you have much risk there around excess and obsolete? We have to take any write downs there. And what you have today (multiple speakers)--

Uli，關於庫存，你們在過剩與呆滯（過時）方面有多大風險？那邊需要提列任何減記嗎？以及你們目前的狀況(多位講者)--

Well, we have a fairly large reserve that we built over the last few years when our inventory was so high, so I think we are in a safe spot here. Obviously, it always depends on demand and what customers are asking for, but so far I mean our inventory reserve is fairly significant, so I don't have [sleepless] nights over it.

嗯，我們在過去幾年庫存很高的時候建立了相當大的備抵，所以我認為我們目前處在安全的位置。當然，這總是取決於需求以及客戶在要什麼，但到目前為止，我們的庫存備抵相當可觀，所以我不會為此「睡不著覺」。

Yeah, it's been fairly consistent over the last few quarters. Don't see a big change.

是的，過去幾個季度都相當一致。沒有看到很大的變化。

Great.

很好。

You mentioned non-core assets. Any ballpark you can share on what percent of revenue we're talking about here -- like 5%.

你提到非核心資產。能否分享一個大概的量級，這大約占營收多少百分比——例如 5%？

It's not -- yeah it's not a big part of our revenue. Anything that we would. If it was a big part of our revenue, we really have to talk about whether or not it's strategic or not, so it's not a big piece.

不是——對，這不是我們營收中的大部分。任何我們會……如果它是我們營收中的大部分，我們就必須認真討論它是否具策略性，所以它不是很大的一塊。

Got it. Great.

了解。很好。

And a couple of housekeeping pieces here. On your 10% customer in the quarter, I assume that was an international customer?

另外幾個例行確認的問題。你們本季有一個占比 10% 的客戶，我猜那是一個國際客戶？

That's correct.

沒錯。

And did you have any in '24, any 10% customers for the year?

那在 2024 年，全年有沒有任何占比 10% 的客戶？

Oh, good question. Do you?

喔，好問題。有嗎？

For the year? No, we had for individual quarters, we always had one -- actually last quarter we didn't have one, [but we did have a 10% revenue customer for the entire year last year](corrected by company after the call).

就全年而言？沒有；就單一季度而言，我們通常都會有一個——其實上一季沒有，[但去年我們全年確實有一個占營收 10% 的客戶](公司於會後更正)。

Great.

很好。

And on the optical outlook, you feel like the demand and deployments are finally back in balance here with regards to inventories. Are we still a little headwind in optical [relative to the market] (multiple speakers)?

再談光學的展望，你覺得就庫存而言，需求與部署終於重新回到平衡。那我們在光學方面是否仍有一些逆風[相對於市場]（多位講者）？

We know we still have -- we -- I think we've been fairly vocal about we expect one inventory situation to clear itself up in Q1. That's still the case. Inventory, it was getting better and better through the year. We have one outlier that we think will clear up in Q1, so exiting Q1, we expect to be in a good place.

我們知道仍然有——我們——我想我們一直相當明確地表示，我們預期有一個庫存狀況會在第一季自行消化。目前仍是如此。庫存在今年一路持續改善。我們有一個例外情況（outlier），我們認為會在第一季消化掉，所以在第一季結束時，我們預期會處於良好狀態。

Great.

很好。

And then you mentioned cloud operators. Any details you can share there in terms of how meaningful that is to the optical business today?

然後你提到雲端營運商。就目前光學業務而言，你能分享一些細節，說明那部分的重要性有多大嗎？

It's lumpy, so it can be good and then some other quarters, it can be less good. So I wouldn't overweight on that I mean, our sense on that and then -- I will say it's good to have and we're continuing to make inroads, but I would say there's no big collection point there.

它是有波動的，所以有些季度會很好，其他季度可能就沒那麼好。所以我不會把它看得太重；我的意思是，我們對此的感受是——我會說這是有益的，我們也持續取得進展，但我會說那裡沒有什麼很大的集中點。

Great.

很好。

And then last one on the broadband front, access and ag. What you're thinking around the US market, obviously BEAD is not a sure thing this year, but maybe some of these other government state programs and even a couple of other federal programs are still driving some strength there. Any anecdotes you can share around broadband and fiber running from the US market?

最後一題關於寬頻端，接入與 ag。你們怎麼看美國市場？顯然 BEAD 今年不一定會落地，但也許一些其他的州政府計畫，甚至另外幾個聯邦計畫仍在帶動一些強勁動能。你能否分享一些關於美國市場寬頻與光纖鋪設的案例或觀察？

Yeah, I would say, there are tales from previous stimulus programs that are still doing things, but they're not the meaningful driver to our business. We've had close to 200 customers come in a couple of weeks ago. And there was BEAD or no BEAD, there was a lot of positive energy about what their plans were and that's what's driving the business right now.

是的，我會說，之前一些刺激方案的效應仍在發酵，但它們並不是我們業務的主要驅動因素。幾週前我們有將近 200 位客戶來訪。不管有沒有 BEAD，大家對他們的計畫都有很多正向能量，而這正是目前推動業務的因素。

I think in the Tier 3 space, I think there are a lot of people that are gearing up. I think the big question itself is still out there, but it's becoming less and less a part of people's near-term plans. For us, it's never been a big driver for this year. We were more excited about what was going on. Tier 3s in general, we think that, they have been slower and we think that they're going to have to start investing again. We also think that the Tier 2 space with some of the new equity that's been coming into there has been very exciting and that continues to be the case.

我認為在 Tier 3 領域，有很多人正在做準備。我覺得最大的問題仍然存在，但它在大家近期規劃中所占的比重正變得越來越小。對我們而言，它從來就不是今年的一個主要驅動因素。我們更興奮的是正在發生的事情。整體來看，Tier 3 一直比較慢，我們認為他們將不得不再次開始投資。我們也認為 Tier 2 領域，隨著一些新的股權資金流入，情況非常令人振奮，而且仍然如此。

So these larger customers are just, at least for us anyways, are doing better and BEAD, it would be nice to have a decision so that the clarity to the customer base would be there, but like I said, it's not a big driver for this year's revenue.

所以這些較大的客戶，至少就我們而言，表現正在變好；而 BEAD 若能有個決定當然很好，這樣客戶群就會更清楚，但如我所說，它不是今年營收的主要驅動因素。

Got it. Thanks, Tom.

了解。謝謝，Tom。

And just to clarify what you just said about the Tier 2s, you're seeing more positive momentum, better financial footing for them to continue to ramp up (multiple speakers)--

再確認一下你剛才對 Tier 2 的說法，你看到更正向的動能、財務基礎更穩健，讓他們能持續加速擴張(多位講者)--

Yeah, and Tier 2s would be some of these newer footprint expansion people that have private equity and others have invested in. And then if you're an incumbent, even the incumbent Tier-2 carriers, they're worried about being overbuilt, right? So, yeah, I mean, there's a good competitive dynamic going on there.

是的，而 Tier 2 會是一些較新的版圖擴張者，背後有私募股權等投資人投入。另外如果你是既有業者，即便是既有的 Tier-2 電信商，他們也擔心被重複建設（overbuilt），對吧？所以，是的，我的意思是，那裡有不錯的競爭動態正在發生。

Tim Savageaux, Northland Capital Markets.

Tim Savageaux，Northland Capital Markets。

Congrats on seeing the top-line inflect. Higher here and you're talking about or guiding to a modest increase in Q1 revenue. Sequentially, that is, I wonder if we can get any more color on what's happening there from either a product or geographic standpoint? What you expect to drive that uptick or what's some of the moving parts might be?

恭喜看到營收端出現拐點。目前更高，而且你們也談到或指引第一季營收將小幅增加。就環比而言，我想知道能否從產品或地理區域角度提供更多細節？你們預期是什麼在推動這個上升，或有哪些可能的變動因素？

Yeah, I mean, I agree with your term modest, but modest is in the eye of the beholder. For us, we're pretty happy with it, because typically, we're seasonally down. So, yeah, so we're -- like I said, we think it's a positive thing.

是的，我的意思是，我同意你用「溫和」這個詞，但「溫和」是見仁見智的。對我們來說，我們對此相當滿意，因為通常我們在季節性上是下滑的。所以，是的，所以我們——就像我說的，我們認為這是一件正面的事。

In general, I think we'll see a stronger access and ag growth. We tend to see our European buyers tend to buy a little earlier in the year. We saw that last year where they bought earlier in the year and then less in the second half of the year and then the more traditional customers have the typical seasonality where the first quarter is down and it starts picking up in the second and third and the fourth is a little bit of an unknown thing. I'm expecting that same trend where we'll see a strong European content and then we'll see the US starting to pick up after that.

整體而言，我認為我們會看到更強勁的接取與農業（ag）成長。我們往往看到歐洲買家會在一年中稍早一些採購。去年我們就看到這種情況：他們在年初買得較早，然後在下半年買得較少；而較傳統的客戶則有典型的季節性，第一季較弱，第二、第三季開始回升，第四季則有點難以預測。我預期會是同樣的趨勢：我們會看到強勁的歐洲需求，之後美國會開始接著回升。

Did that answer your question?

這有回答到你的問題嗎？

Sure does. Sorry about that.

當然有。抱歉剛剛那樣。

Okay, and back on the optical front, and it's combined with this overall carrier behavior that you're seeing, but I too was interested in the cloud commentary to the extent you have some direct exposure there.

好的，回到光學這一塊，這也和你們看到的整體電信營運商行為結合在一起，但我也對你們提到雲端的評論很感興趣，尤其是如果你們在那裡有一些直接曝險的話。

But I guess the question is more about indirect impacts of what's happening with AI and the network. We heard Cisco talk about that recently in saying that carriers are working on their networks or investing in anticipation of bandwidth coming into the network.

不過我想問題更偏向於 AI 與網路正在發生的事情所帶來的間接影響。我們最近聽到思科談到這點，表示電信營運商正在整備他們的網路，或是為了預期將進入網路的頻寬需求而投資。

I wonder if you're seeing that in your customer base or any early indications whether that would be different, US versus Europe, but I guess the overall question is, are there outside of direct exposure to cloud suppliers, are there indirect benefits in the carrier customer base that you're starting to see?

我想知道你們是否在客戶群中也看到這種情況，或有任何早期跡象顯示美國與歐洲會有所不同；但整體問題是：除了對雲端供應商的直接曝險之外，你們是否開始在電信營運商客戶群中看到一些間接的好處？

Yeah, the direct answer to that is yes, and in both the US and Europe, with -- yeah, with some very specific things that they're trying to get done and going through, so I think it's made everybody of any size look at their networks and see how do they play on a going-forward basis, and I think when they do that analysis that ultimately is going to lead to upgrades in their network and some are farther along than others, but without a doubt, I would agree with the comment that was made.

是的，直接的回答是有，而且在美國與歐洲都有——是的，他們有一些非常具體想要完成的事情，正在推進中，所以我認為任何規模的業者都在檢視自己的網路，思考未來要如何布局；而我認為當他們做完這個分析，最終會導致網路升級。有些走得比其他人更前面，但毫無疑問，我同意剛才那個評論。

Great.

很好。

And then last question for me, I know you mentioned the early buying in Europe as a potential driver in Q1. I imagine that comment is around your established customers in Germany and the UK, but I wonder if we can get an update on what's happening with some of these newer ramps in Europe on the access side and whether that might be contributing as well.

那我最後一個問題：我知道你提到歐洲提早採購可能是第一季的驅動因素。我想那個評論應該是針對你們在德國與英國的既有客戶，但我想了解一下歐洲接取端一些較新的放量（ramp）目前進展如何，以及這是否也可能有所貢獻。

It definitely. Is contributing. We're starting to see some of the -- but I mentioned that we'd started shipping GPON to some of those customers at the tail end of the year, and we have some other ones that we're starting to ship in Q1, but the numbers are so much driven by the established players that it's a positive thing, but it's -- I don't want to mislead you here.

確實。有貢獻。我們開始看到一些——我提過我們在年底時已開始向其中一些客戶出貨 GPON，而我們還有其他一些客戶會在第一季開始出貨，但數字主要還是由既有的大型客戶所驅動；這是正面的，但——我不想在這裡誤導你。

We have a handful of customers that really drive the bigger numbers and it's yet to see exactly how that's going to play itself out. What I'm going by historically what they have done and what we expect for this year and yeah, I think those are the ones that are driving the bigger numbers, although those other ones will continue to add on. Some of them don't come on though until the end of the year, right? We have some larger things.

我們有少數幾個客戶確實推動了較大的數字，而這將如何發展仍有待觀察。我主要是依據他們過去的做法以及我們對今年的預期；是的，我認為是這些客戶在推動較大的數字，雖然其他客戶也會持續增加。不過其中一些要到年底才會上量，對吧？我們還有一些較大的案子。

We have some of them that come on at the end of this year and then we have some come on early next year as well, but the ones that I had previously talked about coming online, I think all of those have or will start first half of the year.

其中一些會在今年年底上線，另外也有一些會在明年年初上線；但我之前提到即將上線的那些，我認為全部都已經或將在上半年開始。

Got it. Well, congrats once again, and then I too am pleased with the modest uptake in Q1. I'll pass it along.

了解。那再次恭喜，而且我也對第一季溫和的回升感到高興。我就先把時間讓給其他人。

Amira Manai, ODDO.

Amira Manai，ODDO。

I have actually two questions. The first one is regarding the guidance for Q1 2025. You anticipate a non-GAAP operating margin between 0% and 4%. Now if you end up at the lower end of the range, the margin will decline compared to Q4. What factors could drive this decrease?

我其實有兩個問題。第一個是關於 2025 年第一季的指引。你們預期非 GAAP 營業利益率介於 0% 到 4%。如果最後落在區間下緣，則相較第四季，利益率會下滑。哪些因素可能導致這個下降？

And the second question is what is the current status of the BEAD program? And how much would its potential impact affect the group's activity in the coming years.

第二個問題是 BEAD 計畫目前的狀態如何？它在未來幾年可能對集團營運活動造成多大影響？

Thank you.

謝謝。

So I will start, Amira. So what would -- I mean, obviously if we would end up at the lower end of our revenue guidance, then we would move towards the lower half of our profitability guidance range. Obviously, there are some uncertainties that we have baked into our guidance projections and they are related to items that are more sitting in other COGS or cross margin. And then I think we touched on -- during my presentation, we touched on the fact that we anticipate smaller increase in our operating expenses based on inflation or payroll adjustments and benefit adjustments for the year.

Amira，我先回答。所以——我的意思是，很明顯地，如果我們最後落在營收指引的下緣，那我們就會往獲利指引區間的下半部靠攏。當然，我們在指引預測中已納入一些不確定性，主要與一些更偏向其他銷貨成本（COGS）或毛利的項目有關。另外我想我們在簡報中也提到，我們預期今年營業費用的增加幅度會較小，主要是基於通膨或薪資調整，以及福利調整。

On the BEAD thing, we don't -- there's really no impact to us on BEAD. If BEAD gets delayed, we don't have a whole lot in this year anyways, definitely nothing in Q1.

至於 BEAD，我們——BEAD 對我們其實沒有什麼影響。如果 BEAD 延後，今年我們本來就沒有太多相關業務，第一季更是完全沒有。

And that concludes our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Tom for closing remarks.

以上為我們的問答環節。接下來我會把電話交回給 Tom 作結語。

All right. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for joining us this quarter. We look forward to having a robust discussion at the end of Q1. Thanks very much, everybody.

好的。謝謝各位。感謝大家本季加入我們。我們期待在第一季結束時進行一場深入的討論。非常感謝各位。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's quarterly all-hands meeting. Thank you for your participation. You may now log off.

各位女士、先生，今天的季度全員會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。您現在可以登出。