Ads-Tec Energy PLC (ADSE) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to our today's earnings call. My name is Dennis Müller, and I'm responsible for product marketing and communication at ADS-TEC Energy and will guide you through the event. Within the next 20 to 30 minutes, Thomas Speidel, CEO of ADS-TEC Energy; and Stefan Berndt-von Bülow, CFO of ADS-TEC Energy, will announce the company's audited financial results for the full year 2024.

歡迎參加我們今天的收益電話會議。我叫 Dennis Müller，負責 ADS-TEC Energy 的產品行銷和溝通，將引導您完成整個活動。在接下來的 20 到 30 分鐘內，ADS-TEC Energy 執行長 Thomas Speidel 和 ADS-TEC Energy 財務長 Stefan Berndt-von Bülow 將宣佈公司 2024 年全年經審計的財務表現。

(Event Instructions)

（活動須知）

The presentation includes forward statements within the meaning of the safe harbor provisions of the US Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and you'll find the detailed disclaimer within the presentation that will be available on the company's website after this event.

該簡報包含美國 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案安全港條款所定義的前瞻性聲明，您可以在簡報中找到詳細的免責聲明，該免責聲明將在本次活動結束後在公司網站上提供。

And with that, I will hand over to Thomas Speidel.

現在，我將把時間交給托馬斯·斯佩德爾 (Thomas Speidel)。

Yeah. Thank you, Dennis. Dear ladies and gentlemen, dear investors, thank you for joining today. Let me just go to the agenda. We have prepared today to present a review of the full year 2024, about how we want to strengthen the partnership with our existing and new customers and what we believe can be done in further and accelerating revenues, especially recurring revenues, and we want to present our strategy for Europe and North America and after that, I will hand it over to my colleague, Stefan, the CFO who will take you through the financials and then we will sum it up and be open for Q&A.

是的。謝謝你，丹尼斯。尊敬的女士們、先生們、親愛的投資者們，感謝你們今天的出席。讓我直接進入議程。今天，我們準備對 2024 年全年進行回顧，介紹我們希望如何加強與現有和新客戶的合作夥伴關係，以及我們認為可以採取哪些措施來進一步增加和加速收入，特別是經常性收入，我們還想介紹我們針對歐洲和北美的戰略，之後，我將把它交給我的同事、首席財務官 Stefan，他將向大家介紹並開放財務狀況，然後我們將進行總結並開放給大家。

Let's go to the review for the full year 2024. First of all, I'm really pleased and happy to say that first time ever, we can announce a positive cross profit and also a positive adjusted EBITDA for the full year. And that is what we said and so we are happy that we have been able to deliver that.

讓我們來回顧一下2024年全年。首先，我非常高興和高興地說，有史以來第一次，我們可以宣布全年交叉利潤為正，調整後的 EBITDA 也為正。這就是我們所說的，因此我們很高興能夠實現這一目標。

Also, prediction of what we always said is that service and recurring services will get more and more important. And so we can see that last year, the service revenues almost tripled to EUR5.6 million. It might be not the very highest number, but it's growing and it's significantly growing and so we always explain that we start with hardware with the eco-platform and then with the hardware and the operation services will come in.

此外，我們一直預測服務和重複服務將變得越來越重要。因此我們可以看到，去年服務收入幾乎成長了兩倍，達到 560 萬歐元。它可能不是最高的數字，但它正在成長，而且成長顯著，所以我們總是解釋說，我們從生態平台的硬體開始，然後再加入硬體和營運服務。

We have, last year increased our customer base by so more than 200%, so more than doubled to 55 customers across Europe, US and Canada. Customer in this case means that they have ordered from ADS-TEC and at least got the first units from ADS-TEC.

去年，我們的客戶群增加了 200% 以上，增加了一倍多，達到 55 個客戶，遍布歐洲、美國和加拿大。在這種情況下，客戶意味著他們已經從 ADS-TEC 訂購，並且至少從 ADS-TEC 獲得了第一批產品。

We are focusing on a long-term resilient business model and we explained that several times, we are not a charging company. We are convinced that flexibility, especially digital managed flexibility will play a big, big role in the future, and that is what we are driving forward and charging is one of the things we are doing. And so we mentioned that multi revenue streams based on proven technology is important, and that turned out and is more and more turning out to be true.

我們專注於長期有彈性的商業模式，我們多次解釋過，我們不是一家充電公司。我們堅信，靈活性，特別是數位管理的靈活性將在未來發揮巨大的作用，這就是我們正在推動的方向，而收費就是我們正在做的事情之一。因此，我們提到基於成熟技術的多種收入來源非常重要，事實證明，這越來越成為事實。

Here we see some pictures from the US with the charge box, which is well known, but also here you see that big storage systems are playing a role and I will come to that later. And, also the awards we got which shows that we are on the right way also from the technology and from the strategy side.

這裡我們看到一些來自美國帶有充電箱的圖片，這是眾所周知的，但在這裡你也可以看到大型儲存系統正在發揮作用，我稍後會談到這一點。而且，我們獲得的獎項也表明，從技術和戰略角度來看，我們都走在正確的道路上。

Important for us is to strengthen the partnership with our -- first of all existing but also new clients. That is key for us and, we do everything to help and support our customers and partners because based on our ecosystem, based on our technology, they can operate their own business. We always said that we have a platform and our customers, our clients, our partners can run their own business models on our ecosystem and we are serving with services which are physical or digital. But, and we have announced that by the end of the year, we will also accelerate the business by recurring revenues, and that is what we want to explain again here.

對我們來說，重要的是加強與現有客戶以及新客戶的合作關係。這對我們來說至關重要，我們竭盡全力幫助和支持我們的客戶和合作夥伴，因為基於我們的生態系統、基於我們的技術，他們可以經營自己的業務。我們總是說我們有一個平台，我們的客戶、我們的客戶、我們的合作夥伴可以在我們的生態系統上運行自己的商業模式，我們提供實體或數位服務。但是，我們已經宣布，到今年年底，我們還將透過經常性收入來加速業務發展，這就是我們想在這裡再次解釋的。

Based on 2024, we all know that the market has been volatile. Everybody knows the news about charging then EVs went down. We had the election in the US and it was unclear what to come but nevertheless, we said, okay, it's a long term focus and we have to concentrate also on the margin improvements and that is what led us to the results which I showed at the beginning. So profitable growth was important for us in the last year. And also, that we want to focus on continuing with the partnerships with the current customers, but also with new ones and the new business model.

以2024年為例，我們都知道市場一直處於動盪之中。每個人都知道有關充電的消息，然後電動車就衰落了。我們當時正處於美國大選期間，因此並不清楚接下來會發生什麼，但儘管如此，我們還是說，好吧，這是一個長期的關注點，我們還必須集中精力提高利潤率，這就是我們在一開始就展示的結果。因此，去年獲利成長對我們來說非常重要。此外，我們希望專注於繼續與現有客戶建立合作夥伴關係，同時也要與新客戶和新的商業模式建立合作關係。

Realizing new opportunities, as mentioned, we do that with existing but also new customers, and we will act now as a full service provider to realize complete infrastructure projects. So besides our partners and customers who are running and operating the systems themselves, customers came and said, we can provide you sites and please operate and on the sites and do it for us, and that is what we have started by end of last year and which we have communicated already.

如上所述，我們與現有客戶以及新客戶一起實現新的機遇，現在我們將作為全方位服務提供者來實現完整的基礎設施項目。因此，除了我們自己運行和操作系統的合作夥伴和客戶之外，客戶還來找我們說，我們可以為您提供站點，請在站點上進行操作並為我們完成這項工作，這就是我們在去年年底開始做的事情，並且我們已經進行了溝通。

One thing which is also coming back, if you know ADS-TEC from the beginning, so C&I commercial industrial and also utility scale battery projects have been very important for us and at the beginning, so we are getting back on track here. We mentioned that already over the last years, first with the big projects as a Porsche and the battery-based superchargers we concentrated on that, but now we're getting back also on the big storage projects.

如果你從一開始就了解 ADS-TEC，那麼還有一件事要告訴你，那就是 C&I 商業工業以及公用事業規模的電池專案對我們來說非常重要，而且在一開始，我們就回到了正軌。我們已經提到過，在過去的幾年裡，我們首先集中精力於保時捷和基於電池的增壓器的大型項目，但現在我們也開始重新關注大型儲存項目。

So in 2025, we will develop large scale best projects. We also have improved momentum in North America, and for example, that's also public already. We want new customers such as the corporation Parkland, which is a big customer, not only in Canada but also in the -- with potentially in the US.

所以在2025年，我們將開發大規模的最佳專案。我們在北美的勢頭也得到了改善，例如，這也已經是公開的了。我們希望獲得像 Parkland 公司這樣的新客戶，它不僅是加拿大的大客戶，而且還有潛力在美國。

The strategy, still we believe that ability to act is key, only if you can control the whole stack, the full stack, then you play a role and you can adjust your business model or the business model to the latest regulations and to the specified markets. This is based on the 10 plus years of experience we had and also continuous focus on innovation, which is still a key in ADS-TEC.

對於策略，我們仍然認為行動能力是關鍵，只有你可以控制整個堆棧，完整的堆棧，那麼你才能發揮作用，並且可以根據最新的法規和指定的市場調整你的商業模式或商業模式。這是基於我們十多年的經驗以及對創新的持續關注，這仍然是 ADS-TEC 的關鍵。

We see that here the 360 degrees, we call it on the left side, that is what is well known, so we want to control and we control the hardware, the software, and also the services, including all the digital services. And now on the right side we started in -- on a project based the own and operate business, so we will finance the sites, we do the operation, the installation, commissioning, and then get the whole revenue stream into the company which is then the multi revenue case, which means charging, energy trading, and of course, advertisement.

我們看到這裡的 360 度，我們稱之為左側，這是眾所周知的，所以我們想要控制並控制硬體、軟體和服務，包括所有數位服務。現在，在右側，我們開始了一個基於自有和運營業務的項目，因此我們將為站點提供資金，我們進行運營、安裝、調試，然後將整個收入流注入公司，這就是多收入案例，包括充電、能源交易，當然還有廣告。

Here's some screens, some examples where we can see the charge post. The charge post is the first unit where we can combine ultrafast charging without expanding the grid, so we save the expansion fees, we avoid demand charges and high power rates, but in addition, we get revenues from energy trading and also from advertisement.

這裡有一些螢幕，一些我們可以看到充電樁的範例。充電樁是我們第一個可以在不擴大電網的情況下結合超快速充電的裝置，因此我們節省了擴建費用，避免了需求費用和高電費，此外，我們還可以從能源交易和廣告中獲得收入。

I just mentioned the renewed focus on C&I. So C&I stands for commercial industrial, but here also utility scale. Large scale systems are more and more getting popular. We can, or you can see that also in the news, that's in the international thing and we have developed a pipeline, and one is one of the largest best projects in Europe. We have currently being planned and we have applied for the grid access. You see the number it's more than 500 megawatt and 1 gigawatt hours.

我剛才提到了對 C&I 的重新關注。因此，C&I 代表商業工業，但這裡也代表公用事業規模。大型系統越來越受歡迎。我們可以，或者你也可以在新聞中看到，這是國際上的事情，我們已經開發了一條管道，其中一個是歐洲最大、最好的項目之一。我們目前正在規劃並已申請電網存取。你看這個數字，它超過了500兆瓦和1千兆瓦時。

So the request or the required land has already been secured exclusively for us, for ADS-TEC Energy, and we have already applied for the grid connection to the TSO. So we expect that the project, can start already during 2025. And also for the best projects are coming in and, are under development right now with our team.

因此，ADS-TEC Energy 已專門為我們確保了所需的土地請求，並且我們已經向 TSO 申請了電網連接。因此我們預計該計畫可以在 2025 年啟動。而且最好的專案也正在進來，並且正在與我們的團隊一起開發。

With that, short survey, I want to hand it over to Stefan, who gives you more insights into the financials. Thank you.

透過這項簡短的調查，我想將其交給 Stefan，他將為您提供有關財務狀況的更多見解。謝謝。

Thank you, Thomas. So taking a closer look to the financial 2024. So the company achieved a revenue of EUR110 million for the full year 2024, compared to EUR107.4 million in 2023. It missed market uncertainties, ADS-TEC Energy was able to exceeded its previous year revenue, roughly 2.5%, while growing the customer base more than 200% to 55 customers across Europe, USA, and Canada. In late 2024, the company effectively mitigate and resolved risk from a major customer, business difficulties by acquiring nearly all the affected and customers directly, which was a significant success for the company.

謝謝你，托馬斯。因此，讓我們仔細看看 2024 年的財務狀況。因此，該公司 2024 年全年營收 1.1 億歐元，而 2023 年為 1.074 億歐元。由於避開了市場的不確定性，ADS-TEC Energy 的收入超過了前一年的約 2.5%，同時客戶群成長了 200% 以上，達到歐洲、美國和加拿大的 55 個客戶。2024年末，公司透過直接收購幾乎所有受影響的客戶，有效地緩解和解決了主要客戶業務困難帶來的風險，這對公司來說是一個巨大的成功。

Worthwhile to mention -- Thomas already mentioned it, that we were able to almost triple our service revenue from EUR2 million in 2023 to EUR5.6 million in '24 due to the growing base of installed fast charging solution units.

值得一提的是——托馬斯已經提到，由於安裝的快速充電解決方案單元數量不斷增長，我們的服務收入幾乎增加了兩倍，從 2023 年的 200 萬歐元增加到 2024 年的 560 萬歐元。

As also already mentioned by Thomas, it's the first time ever that the company can report a positive gross profit and positive adjusted EBITDA for the full year 2024. This was mainly possible because we were able to reduce the cost of sales by 80%, so to minus-EUR90.6 million. This results, as already mentioned in the first time, positive full year cross margin of EUR90.4 million, which is 70.7% for the full year. This is a significant improvement to minus-EUR9.2 million or 2.7% in 2023.

正如托馬斯所提到的，這是該公司有史以來第一次報告 2024 年全年毛利和調整後 EBITDA 為正。這主要是因為我們能夠將銷售成本降低 80%，也就是降低至-9,060 萬歐元。正如第一次提到的那樣，這一結果導致全年交叉利潤率為正 9,040 萬歐元，全年為 70.7%。這是一個顯著的改善，到 2023 年將下降 920 萬歐元或 2.7%。

The improved gross margin could be mainly realized due to the reduced material cost and also to higher margin. So the focus in 2024 for ADS-TEC was really on a cost reduction base. This also then operate results in an operating result of minus-EUR8.6 million, which was a significant improvement by EUR35.9 million compared to minus-EUR44.5 million to the previous year.

毛利率的提高主要得益於材料成本的降低以及利潤率的提高。因此，ADS-TEC 在 2024 年的重點實際上是降低成本。這也導致營業利潤為負 860 萬歐元，與上一年的負 4,450 萬歐元相比，大幅改善了 3,590 萬歐元。

Similar, the adjusted EBITDA could also significant increase from minus-EUR38.1 million to positive EUR2.2 million. It's really important to mention here that the adjusted EBITDA only includes share-based payment and not as in the previous year reported share-based payment plus write down on inventories -- sorry, inventory write downs are not included in more in the adjusted EBITDA.

同樣，調整後的 EBITDA 也可能從負 3,810 萬歐元大幅增加至正 220 萬歐元。這裡需要特別指出的是，調整後的 EBITDA 僅包括基於股份的支付，而不是像上一年報告的那樣包括基於股份的支付加上存貨減值——抱歉，調整後的 EBITDA 中沒有包括更多存貨減值。

The cash and cash equivalent ended by EUR22.9 million in the end of December. The operating cash flow was significantly improved from EUR20.7 million to EUR16.3 million this year. This is an improvement of EUR4.4 million. Taking into account that in 2023 in the -- it was not included in the operating cash flow, they capitalized R&D of EUR7.6 million, which was shown under investment due to IFRS rules. The year to year real comparison would be an improvement of EUR12 million on the operating cash flow.

12月底，現金及現金等價物餘額為2,290萬歐元。今年經營現金流大幅改善，由2,070萬歐元增至1,630萬歐元。這提高了 440 萬歐元。考慮到 2023 年未計入經營現金流，他們將 760 萬歐元的研發資本化，根據 IFRS 規則，這筆資金列在投資項下。與去年同期相比，實際經營現金流將增加 1,200 萬歐元。

To sum this up, we have proven and highly recognized technology. We won several awards in 2024, starting with the German Innovation Award, the Green Product Award, German Environmental Award, and the Red Dot Award. ChargeBox and ChargePost have been proven by real operation data from clients. Exceeding customer experience due to the very high utilization rates, which is a result of the proven and performing technology. This technology was developed for more than one decade.

總而言之，我們擁有經過驗證且高度認可的技術。2024 年，我們獲得了多個獎項，包括德國創新獎、綠色產品獎、德國環境獎和紅點獎。ChargeBox和ChargePost已經透過客戶的實際運行資料得到驗證。由於利用率非常高，超越了客戶體驗，這是經過驗證且性能卓越的技術的結果。這項技術已經開發了十多年。

As a CFO, I'm basically super proud of the strong financial basis of the company. First of all, as already mentioned, we achieved the first time ever positive gross profit and positive adjusted EBITDA for the full year. In addition, the company was able to secure a convertible note in the aggregate principal amount of EUR50 million in the beginning of May, to be exact on the May 1.

作為財務官，我對公司強大的財務基礎感到非常自豪。首先，如同前面所提到的，我們全年首次實現了正毛利潤和正調整後EBITDA。此外，該公司在 5 月初（確切地說是 5 月 1 日）獲得了總本金金額為 5000 萬歐元的可轉換票據。

In addition, we extended our existing shareholder loans for one for a year until August 31, and we can use this as a credit line, which gives us additional EUR25.6 million -- sorry. In total, the company then has enough financial resources and ability to extend its business and invest in operating own units and changing or extending the business to this own operation.

此外，我們將現有的股東貸款延長一年至 8 月 31 日，我們可以將其用作信用額度，這為我們帶來了額外的 2560 萬歐元——抱歉。總的來說，公司擁有足夠的財務資源和能力來擴展業務並投資運營自己的部門以及將業務變更或擴展為自己的業務。

The further growth strategy, as Thomas already mentioned, we will strengthen our partnership with existing and new customers. We want to invest and accelerate in recurring revenues. We grow our customer base from more than 200% to 55 customers across Europe, USA, and Canada.

正如托馬斯所提到的，進一步的成長策略是，我們將加強與現有和新客戶的合作關係。我們希望投資並加速經常性收入。我們的客戶群從先前的 200% 成長至歐洲、美國和加拿大的 55 個客戶。

We will remain focusing on resilient business model backed by long-term multi-revenue and proven technology. And also, as already mentioned, we were able to triple our service business, and driven by the growing install base and this will not stop in 2024 with the increased install based, the service revenue is expected to further growth.

我們將繼續專注於以長期多收入和成熟技術支援的彈性商業模式。而且，正如前面提到的，我們的服務業務增長了兩倍，並且在不斷增長的安裝基數的推動下，這種情況在 2024 年不會停止，隨著安裝基數的增加，服務收入預計將進一步增長。

With that, I close it and go to the Q&A session.

說完，我關閉它並進入問答環節。

Thank you very much, Thomas. Thank you very much, Stefan. Now, again, from my side, you will have the possibility to send us your questions via this Q4 platform. Let's start with the first question. I think that's one for you, Thomas.

非常感謝，湯瑪斯。非常感謝，史蒂芬。現在，再次從我的角度來說，您可以透過這個 Q4 平台向我們發送您的問題。讓我們從第一個問題開始。我認為這對你來說是一個好消息，托馬斯。

What are some challenges and opportunities for companies like ADS-TEC?

ADS-TEC 等公司面臨哪些挑戰與機會？

Yeah, thank you for the question. So the opportunities, I think they are still the same, so we see the transformation is ongoing and it will not stop. We see that worldwide, even if we are concentrating now on Europe, North America. So the opportunities are the same. And even what we see now is that EVs are coming back. Now we saw that last year, it was a little bit going down. Now we see that it come back.

是的，謝謝你的提問。所以我認為機會還是一樣的，所以我們看到轉型仍在進行中，而且不會停止。我們在世界各地都看到了這一點，即使我們現在集中在歐洲和北美。所以機會是一樣的。我們現在看到的是電動車正在回歸。現在我們看到，去年，它有點下降。現在我們看到它又回來了。

So we don't have any hints that the transformation can be stopped. That's a very important thing. And so flexibility will be key. Not only the renewables with photovoltaic, and also wind and others, but also on the consumer side, on the demand side, we see more and more need for flexibility, and that is why also the large scale battery storage comes in more and more. We see that flexibility gets prices and it's a highly regulated market. So and that is maybe something about the challenges.

所以我們沒有任何跡象表明這種轉變可以被阻止。這是一件非常重要的事情。因此靈活性是關鍵。不僅是光電、風能等再生能源，在消費者方面、在需求方面，我們看到對靈活性的需求越來越大，這也是大規模電池儲存越來越多出現的原因。我們看到彈性會帶來價格，而且這是一個受到嚴格監管的市場。所以這也許就是一些有關挑戰的內容。

So we are facing a very, diverse situation. So not even Europe, but even Germany it's just one reaching, it's split up in many units and it's split up in many different regulated zones, and now ADS-TEC comes into place, ability to act, I'm mentioning all the time. That is why it's so important because we can adjust the system, the operation, the software to the local needs, and it's not just having one component in a container and ship it from wherever to Germany or to Europe or to the US. It's about the whole scope and it's an end to end business and it's not for 3 years, it's for 10 years or even more. And so the opportunities are still the same and the challenges, I would say they are opportunity for us because we can manage the challenges by following the demand and by having the ability to act.

因此，我們面臨的情況非常多樣化。因此，甚至不是歐洲，甚至是德國，都只是一個範圍，它被分成許多單位，並且被分成許多不同的管制區域，現在 ADS-TEC 已經到位，具備了行動能力，我一直在提到這一點。這就是為什麼它如此重要，因為我們可以根據當地需求調整系統、操作和軟體，而不僅僅是將一個組件放在貨櫃中，然後從任何地方運送到德國、歐洲或美國。它涉及整個範圍，是一個端到端的業務，而且不是 3 年，而是 10 年甚至更長。因此，機會和挑戰依然存在，我想說，這對我們來說也是機遇，因為我們可以透過滿足需求並具備行動能力來應對挑戰。

Nevertheless, we saw also some difficulties in the press and the news, so charging in some segments was under pressure and we see that as well. We see that some customers are having delays in installation that the market is, I would say paused a little bit in some regions, but the overall red line is still the same.

然而，我們也看到報紙和新聞領域存在一些困難，因此某些領域的收費面臨壓力，我們也看到了這一點。我們看到一些客戶的安裝出現了延遲，我想說市場在某些地區出現了一點停頓，但整體紅線仍然是一樣的。

Thank you very much. There's another question, not the same, but it could be one addition to that. How do we see the competition with regard to the large corporations in the same business?

非常感謝。還有一個問題，雖然不一樣，但可以作為補充。我們如何看待同行業大公司的競爭？

Well, what are the large corporations in the same business? We are not a utility. We never want to be a utility. We are serving utilities in the big companies, so we see ourselves rather in the second row by being a very strong partner and now with the expansion of our business in owning and operating the units and taking care about the very complex operation model. That is our business and we are not trying to be the Google for the next energy system because we believe that it's more decentralized, it's more a case by case. I always said it's like a fingerprint, so we are not seeing corporations where we could say the winner takes it all, but, rather see who can enable others to participate in the business and therefore you need the technology. That's what we do.

那麼，同行業的大公司有哪些呢？我們不是公用事業公司。我們從不想成為一種實用工具。我們為大公司的公用事業提供服務，因此，我們認為自己處於第二位，是一個非常強大的合作夥伴，現在我們的業務擴展到擁有和運營這些單位，並負責非常複雜的營運模式。這是我們的業務，我們不想成為下一代能源系統的谷歌，因為我們相信它更加分散，更需要根據具體情況進行處理。我總是說這就像指紋，所以我們看到的不是贏家通吃的公司，而是看誰能讓其他人參與到業務中，因此你需要技術。這就是我們所做的。

It could take a little bit longer because that's very complex and please realize that also regulation and politics are playing a big role. We see that now last year we lost our government in Germany before the regular election time ended and we have a new government in the US and with these changes, you always get impact on the regulation. This is also an opportunity for us, but it may slow down also some of the integrations and to answer the question, we don't see that there is one big player, rather the big ones are looking for companies like us who are able to help them and to support them on the long run.

這可能需要更長的時間，因為這非常複雜，並且請注意，監管和政治也發揮著重要作用。我們看到，去年德國在常規選舉結束前就失去了政府，而美國則迎來了新政府，這些變化總是會對監管產生影響。這對我們來說也是一個機會，但它也可能會減緩一些整合的速度，回答這個問題，我們認為沒有一個大玩家，而是大玩家正在尋找像我們這樣能夠長期幫助他們和支持他們的公司。

Great, thanks a lot. There is another question regarding the large scale best project. Can you provide some view on the financials for the large 500 megawatt project, who has this been signed with?

太好了，非常感謝。還有一個問題是關於大型最佳專案。您能否對這個 500 兆瓦大型專案的財務狀況提供一些看法？該計畫與誰簽約？

It's not signed. As I said, it's under development. So what we did now, and that is how you do the business. So we want to -- we do not want to sell just batteries to somebody who is taking the role as an EPC and operating the units. In this case we are developing the project ourselves. And the first step of doing that is that you have to secure the sites. And there is no project without sites and the sites have to be close to a grid access, which is strong enough. And so that took some months now to get that done. And this first step, we have closed now, so we have access to the sites and the next steps will be that the application for the grid access can be fulfilled, and if you are in this business, then you know that can take some month.

沒有簽名。正如我所說，它正在開發中。所以我們現在所做的就是你做生意的方式。因此，我們不想僅僅將電池出售給充當 EPC 角色並操作設備的人。在這種情況下，我們正在自己開發該專案。而這樣做的第一步就是必須確保網站的安全。沒有場地就沒有項目，而且場地必須靠近電網接入，電網足夠強大。所以這件事花了幾個月的時間才完成。第一步，我們現在已經結束，因此我們可以訪問這些站點，下一步將是完成電網訪問的申請，如果你從事這個行業，那麼你知道這可能需要幾個月的時間。

So we expect that during 2025, we would get that second very important step being closed, and then the next step will be, then talking about the financials and of course, we will then communicate the details also with potential investors because as you can imagine, these kind of projects have a high demand for CapEx and they are running for more than 10 years now. And so that's a long-term business and so we believe that it's very important for ADS-TEC to be in that market.

因此，我們預計在 2025 年期間，我們將完成第二個非常重要的步驟，然後下一步將是討論財務問題，當然，我們還會與潛在投資者溝通細節，因為你可以想像，這類項目對資本支出的需求很高，而且它們已經運行了 10 多年。這是一項長期業務，因此我們認為 ADS-TEC 進入該市場非常重要。

We have been there, remember 2015, we have been the first commercial-- we get the first commercial frequency regulation power plant as an EPC ADS-TEC provided that to Starcraft, which is a Norwegian utility, a huge one, and that's up and running until today. And we have some 100 megawatt hours installed based in different applications and we want to continue also in this business, which is also flexibility and flexibility is not just charging, flexibility is everything also in the big scale.

我們曾經在那裡，記得 2015 年，我們是第一個商業 - 我們以 EPC ADS-TEC 的形式獲得了第一個商業頻率調節發電廠，並將其提供給 Starcraft，這是一家挪威公用事業公司，規模龐大，並且一直運行到今天。我們在不同的應用中安裝了大約 100 兆瓦時的電池，我們也想繼續從事這項業務，這也是一種靈活性，靈活性不僅僅是充電，從大範圍來看，靈活性就是一切。

Great. Then, there's another question coming in. Could you -- maybe for you, Stefan, could you expand on how the EUR50 million may financing will only result in the number of new shares. It would seem that the conversation price is a lot higher than the current share price.

偉大的。那麼，又有另一個問題出現了。史蒂芬，您能否詳細說明 5000 萬歐元的融資將如何產生新股數量。看起來，談話價格比目前股價高很多。

So not going too much into detail, but roughly it's a convertible note which then will be, let's call it exchanged against share. So the price will be determined in the next month. So there is a first portion of EUR15 million and then the following portion about EUR35 million, which is be redeemed over 36 months.

因此，我們不會講得太詳細，但大致來說，它是一張可轉換票據，我們稱之為與股票交換。因此價格將在下個月確定。因此，第一部分為 1500 萬歐元，第二部分約為 3500 萬歐元，將在 36 個月內贖回。

And I think that's are the most important highlights, what is especially important, that we could secure the EUR50 million for the company where we want to invest in the new extended business to operate the units our own, which then gives us long term recurring revenue over multiple years, 10 years or even longer because in some cases, we have a right to extend the contract to further 5 years, and that's the most important about the financing.

我認為這是最重要的亮點，尤其重要的是，我們可以為公司獲得 5000 萬歐元，我們想投資新的擴展業務來運營我們自己的部門，這將為我們帶來多年、10 年甚至更長時間的長期經常性收入，因為在某些情況下，我們有權將合約延長至 5 年，這是融資中最重要的一點。

Great. Then there's another question regarding the let's say, change in the strategy or the additional strategy with extension of the business. Could you give some guidance and given the change in strategy, will impact the numbers short term, so should we expect weaker short-term financials?

偉大的。然後還有另一個問題，比如說，關於策略的改變或是隨著業務的擴展而產生的附加策略。您能否給予一些指導，考慮到策略的變化，這會影響短期數據，那麼我們是否應該預期短期財務狀況會較弱？

First of all for me, for us, it's very important, it's not a change. So we still stay with our business and we are an eco-platform provider and we support the platform for our customers and that is why I mentioned it is so important for us to continue in the partnership for our existing and also new customers. And they are using the platform, running their own application. They have their own software business model, and they use us like I always say, like an iPhone and you write your own software, and you buy from Apple, the phone and the operating system and the services and the data protection and the over the AI updates, but you write your own app and this business will continue and it's a really a very important business for ADS-TEC.

首先，對我來說，對我們來說，這非常重要，這不是什麼改變。因此，我們仍然堅持我們的業務，我們是一個生態平台提供商，我們為客戶提供平台支持，這就是為什麼我提到繼續與現有客戶和新客戶保持合作關係對我們來說如此重要。他們正在使用該平台，運行自己的應用程式。他們有自己的軟體商業模式，他們使用我們，就像我常說的那樣，例如 iPhone，你可以編寫自己的軟體，你可以從 Apple 購買手機、作業系統、服務、資料保護和 AI 更新，但你可以編寫自己的應用程序，這項業務將繼續下去，這對 ADS-TEC 來說是一項非常重要的業務。

What we are doing now is that we extend the business because, and that is because the market has developed in a direction that site owners are now coming. It's also due to regulation because now you are forced, you are motivated to have charges on your site, and not everybody can do that by themselves. So they asked us and said, you are a platform company and can you also do the operation and we allow you to do, not just the charging where we are interested in, but we allow you to take benefit of the advertising.

我們現在所做的就是擴展業務，因為市場已經朝著網站所有者正在湧入的方向發展。這也是因為監管的原因，因為現在你被迫、有動力在你的網站上收費，而並不是每個人都能自己做到這一點。所以他們問我們，說，你們是一家平台公司，你們能否也做運營，我們允許你們做的不僅僅是我們感興趣的收費，而且我們還允許你們從廣告中獲益。

And of the trading and we take very much care that we are not -- that is all on arms lengths also compared to our other partners and customers. So ADS-TEC will not sell the system so the service is cheaper into the own projects compared to how we support our partners. That is very important for us because we don't want to lose our partners, it's still for a very, very long time, but it's different.

在交易中，我們非常小心，與我們的其他合作夥伴和客戶相比，我們不會採取任何公平的貿易行為。因此，ADS-TEC 不會出售該系統，因此與我們支持合作夥伴的方式相比，為我們自己的專案提供服務更便宜。這對我們來說非常重要，因為我們不想失去我們的合作夥伴，這種情況還會持續很長一段時間，但情況已經有所不同。

And if you look at the, for example bigger utility, it takes a long time to get them into the business and to adapt their software and their infrastructure, their processes on our platform. This will stay over years and, they don't care whether we in other cases, provide the full service to let's say, a small company or a network of companies, which want to use the charger on their premises. That is not a conflict.

如果你看一下，例如更大的公用事業，需要很長時間才能讓他們進入業務並在我們的平台上調整他們的軟體和基礎設施以及流程。這種狀況將持續數年，而且他們並不關心我們是否在其他情況下為想要在其場所使用充電器的小公司或公司網路提供全套服務。這並不是衝突。

And so it's not a new business, it's not a change, and that is very, very important for us. Could it lead to changes in the market, because in terms of revenue, development, if we are investing ourselves, then it's a question of production capacity we do have. So it's a question of how fast can we get access to the sites and how fast can we build up the system that's basically, where the restriction comes from in our own business and maybe one benefit we have also, we can adjust the business model without asking, or discussing that with a partner because that's under our own control, so we are getting faster here.

所以這不是一項新業務，也不是什麼改變，這對我們來說非常非常重要。這會導致市場改變嗎？因為就收入和發展而言，如果我們自己投資，那麼這就是我們擁有的生產能力的問題。所以問題在於我們能多快訪問這些網站，以及我們能多快建立起這個系統，基本上，限制來自於我們自己的業務，也許我們還有一個好處，我們可以調整業務模式而無需詢問，或者與合作夥伴討論，因為這在我們自己的控制之下，所以我們在這裡變得更快。

And the other thing, the complete market where we are also depending on the rollout and on the operation from our partners, there of course, we see and that is what I mentioned the overall market, charging has come down with the EV development we expected that it comes back, but that's here we are, going with the coordinate market with all the charging market. This is different but again, please do not think that we are changing the business model. We have just an addition, and so we are not changing now to C&I. We always did C&I, but we have not been able to do everything at the same time. And now I think that's the positive news. We can come back and also expand the business in these areas.

另外，在整個市場中，我們也依賴合作夥伴的推出和運營，當然，我們看到了，這就是我提到的整體市場，隨著電動車的發展，充電量已經下降，我們預計它會回升，但這就是我們現在所處的市場，與所有充電市場協調發展。這是不同的，但再次強調，請不要認為我們正在改變商業模式。我們只是增加了一個部分，因此現在不會更改為 C&I。我們一直從事 C&I 業務，但我們無法同時做所有事情。現在我認為這是好消息。我們可以回來並擴大這些地區的業務。

Okay. And then, I would say last question regarding the time, very interesting. It's a question regarding this extension of the business model. Could you share how many operational chargers you acquire and the deal where you acquired your customers and related to that, could you say something about how many chargers or sites to be run by yourself are planning to develop in 2025.

好的。然後，我想說的最後一個問題是關於時間的，非常有趣。這是關於商業模式延伸的問題。您能否分享您購買了多少個可運行的充電樁，以及您獲得客戶的交易，與此相關的是，您能否談談您計劃在 2025 年開發多少個由您自己運營的充電樁或站點。

Yeah. We cannot talk about the details which are under NDA with our customers and partners who gave us the details about their sites, but so the first sites we will get. It's three digit numbers, so it's above 100 and below 500, let's say that way, as for now and then the installation will go as fast as we can do it and thanks to the investment and to the funding we got.

是的。我們不能與向我們提供其站點詳細信息的客戶和合作夥伴談論保密協議下的詳細信息，但我們會獲得第一個站點。它是三位數，所以它在 100 以上且 500 以下，我們這樣說吧，至於現在和以後的安裝，我們會盡可能快地進行，這要感謝我們獲得的投資和資金。

We are not limited here, and we also see that if this really gets into the market, then there is also a lot of potential to scale that up, because if we can show, and that is also a big opportunity for us, that multi revenue really has a an impact on the whole business model. And so far, we only, sold the ecosystem and the services and the services came in as we just saw, but, there is not, the trading business is not established right now in the market with our partners and also the advertisement business is at the very beginning.

我們並不局限於此，我們還看到，如果它真的進入市場，那麼也有很大潛力可以擴大規模，因為如果我們能夠展示，這對我們來說也是一個巨大的機會，多重收入確實會對整個商業模式產生影響。到目前為止，我們只銷售生態系統和服務，這些服務正如我們所見，但是，目前市場上還沒有與我們的合作夥伴建立交易業務，廣告業務也才剛起步。

So we are really keen and we're looking forward to making the proof with the overall business model what we say, multi-revenue, and we are supporting our existing partners here as well. So it's not that we keep that just for us. So we are offering the services also to our existing partners. If they want to, they can participate as well. So in total, we want to have the biggest impact for all of us, for the existing partners and customers, as well as for the owned and operated sites by us.

因此，我們非常熱衷，並期待透過整體商業模式證明我們所說的多收入，並且我們也在這裡支持我們現有的合作夥伴。所以我們保留它不只是為了我們自己。因此，我們也向現有的合作夥伴提供服務。如果他們願意，他們也可以參加。所以總的來說，我們希望為我們所有人、現有的合作夥伴和客戶以及我們擁有和經營的網站帶來最大的影響。

Okay, then I would propose one last question because that's targeting the multi-revenue streams. In a year or two, how much of the revenues do you see coming from power or energy trading?

好的，那我提出最後一個問題，因為這針對的是多種收入來源。一兩年後，您認為有多少收入來自電力或能源交易？

That's a very smart and good question. And I would say today we can say and you can look because it's public, go to the BVES website, which is our storage association. You can see what can be achieved today with energy trading, for example. So I would say take these numbers for today, but what we also see the market is really changing and developing and region by region it's different.

這是一個非常聰明且好的問題。我想說，今天我們可以說，你可以看看，因為它是公開的，請訪問 BVES 網站，這是我們的儲存協會。例如，您可以看到今天透過能源交易可以實現什麼目標。所以我想說，就拿今天的這些數字來說吧，但我們也看到市場確實在變化和發展，而且每個地區的情況都不同。

We started our first wire directional charger has been installed in Austria by the end of last year, so we got the certification and now we are collecting data and the first tests and the first results are coming, and now we do the next step here in Germany. So this is a step by step approach.

我們的第一台有線定向充電器已於去年年底在奧地利安裝，因此我們獲得了認證，現在我們正在收集數據，第一次測試和第一批結果即將出來，現在我們在德國進行下一步。這是一個循序漸進的方法。

But to answer the question, where do we see flexibility in the future? It's hard to predict. I don't see that it comes down significantly because as we have seen it with frequency regulation, at the beginning it came from EUR3,000 a week. And of course, it went down after a lot of storage system coming into the market, but now it's back on a higher level. Why? Because we have more and more demand in the market.

但要回答這個問題，我們將來會在哪裡看到彈性？這很難預測。我認為它不會大幅下降，因為正如我們在頻率調節中看到的那樣，一開始它的價格是每週 3,000 歐元。當然，隨著大量儲存系統進入市場，這一數字有所下降，但現在又回到了較高的水平。為什麼？因為我們的市場需求越來越大。

And there will be no energy transformation. That is exactly why we are here without flexibility. So flexibility is, and that's our slogan is the twin brother of renewables and of the new way, how we do heating’s and heating systems and also the mobility sector.

並且不會發生任何能量轉換。這正是我們在這裡缺乏彈性的原因。所以靈活性就是，這就是我們的口號，是可再生能源和新方式的孿生兄弟，我們如何進行供暖和供暖系統以及移動領域。

So I don't see that flexibility will go down to zero. It's rather the other way that we see a bigger and bigger market for flexibility. And of course, there will be also a price for flexibility. And that is again, where we can adapt our business model to where you can make the most money out of whether it's frequency regulation or whether it's trading, whether it's peak shaving or maybe also other grid services.

所以我認為靈活性不會降至零。相反，我們看到彈性的市場越來越大。當然，靈活性也是有代價的。這也是我們可以調整商業模式，讓您從中賺取最大利潤的地方，無論是頻率調節、交易、削峰或其他電網服務。

Thank you very much. Thank you, Thomas. Thank you, Stefan. Thanks to all of you for your time and attention. Then, I would say we closed the session.

非常感謝。謝謝你，托馬斯。謝謝你，史蒂芬。感謝大家的時間和關注。然後我想說我們結束了會議。

Thank you very much for your time.

非常感謝您抽出時間。

Thank you, and for your support.

謝謝您，也謝謝您的支持。