Acadian Asset Management Inc (AAMI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Acadian Asset Management Incorporated earnings conference call and webcast for the fourth-quarter 2024.

女士們，先生們，感謝您的支持，歡迎參加 Acadian Asset Management Incorporated 2024 年第四季財報電話會議和網路廣播。

(Operator Instructions) Please note that this call is being recorded today, Thursday, February 6, 2025, at 11:00 AM Eastern Time.

(操作員指示)請注意，本次通話是在今天，即 2025 年 2 月 6 日星期四，東部時間上午 11:00 進行的。

I would now like to turn the call over to Melody Huang, Senior Vice President and Director of Finance and Investor Relations. Please go ahead, Melody.

現在，我想將電話轉給高級副總裁兼財務和投資者關係總監 Melody Huang。請繼續，梅洛迪。

Good morning, and welcome to Acadian Asset Management Inc.'s conference call to discuss our results for the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2024.

早安，歡迎參加 Acadian Asset Management Inc. 的電話會議，討論截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的第四季業績。

Before we get started, please note that we may make forward-looking statements about our business and financial performance. Each forward-looking statement is subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected.

在我們開始之前，請注意我們可能會對我們的業務和財務表現做出前瞻性的陳述。每個前瞻性陳述都受風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與預測結果有重大差異。

Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties appears in our SEC filings, including the Form 8-K filed today containing the earnings release, our 2023 Form 10-K and our Form 10-Q for each of the first, second and third quarters of 2024.

有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊出現在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中，包括今天提交的包含收益報告的 8-K 表、2023 年的 10-K 表以及 2024 年第一、第二和第三季度的 10-Q 表。

Any forward-looking statements that we make on this call are based on assumptions as of today, and we undertake no obligation to update them as a result of new information or future events. We may also reference certain non-GAAP financial measures. Information about any non-GAAP measures referenced, including a reconciliation of those measures to GAAP measures, can be found on our website, along with the slides that we will use as part of today's discussion.

我們在本次電話會議上所做的任何前瞻性陳述均基於今天的假設，我們不承擔根據新資訊或未來事件更新這些陳述的義務。我們也可能參考某些非公認會計準則財務指標。有關所引用的任何非 GAAP 指標的資訊（包括這些指標與 GAAP 指標的對帳）均可在我們的網站上找到，同時也可在今天討論中使用的幻燈片中找到。

Finally, nothing herein shall be deemed to be an offer a solicitation to buy any investment products.

最後，本文的任何內容均不應被視為購買任何投資產品的要約或邀請。

Kelly Young, our President and Chief Executive Officer, will lead the call. And now I'm pleased to turn the call over to Kelly.

我們的總裁兼執行長凱利楊 (Kelly Young) 將主持此次電話會議。現在我很高興將電話轉給凱利。

Thanks, Melody. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. As I take on the role of CEO of Acadian Asset Management Inc., I'm mindful of the incredible journey that has brought us here. Acadian has been around for nearly 40 years. And for most of that time, we've been under the umbrella and brand name of another holding company, but today marks the first time that Acadian releases earnings as a stand-alone company.

謝謝，梅洛迪。大家早安，感謝大家今天的參與。當我擔任阿卡迪亞資產管理公司 (Acadian Asset Management Inc.) 的執行長時，我牢記著我們走到今天的不可思議的歷程。阿卡迪亞語已經存在了近40年。在大部分時間裡，我們一直處於另一家控股公司的保護傘和品牌之下，但今天是 Acadian 首次作為獨立公司發布收益。

Our firm has been built on an impressive performance track record through various market cycles. We have a stellar reputation among institutional investors, and we're the only stand-alone publicly traded systematic manager. The BrightSphere chapter closed at the end of last year. And today, I'm delighted to share Acadian's results for the fourth quarter and to update you on our long-term growth strategy.

我們公司在各個市場週期中都建立了令人矚目的業績記錄。我們在機構投資者中享有盛譽，並且是唯一獨立的公開交易系統管理者。BrightSphere 分會於去年年底關閉。今天，我很高興與大家分享阿卡迪亞公司第四季的業績，並向大家介紹我們的長期成長策略。

Since this is the first Acadian's earnings call, I'll also introduce you to Acadian's CIO, Brendan Bradley, and Brendan will walk you through our investment performance. Finally, Melody Huang will close with an update on our capital allocation. And after my closing remarks, we'll move to Q&A.

由於這是 Acadian 的第一次財報電話會議，我還將向您介紹 Acadian 的資訊長 Brendan Bradley，Brendan 將向您介紹我們的投資績效。最後，Melody Huang 將以我們資本配置的最新情況作為結束。我的結束語之後，我們將進入問答環節。

I'm happy to report that we ended 2024 on a high note. During Q4, AAMI achieved the highest level of quarterly ENI EPS in the firm's history. ENI per share was $1.30 compared to $0.77 in the fourth quarter of 2023. The 69% increase in ENI per share compared to the year ago quarter was primarily driven by 50% growth in ENI.

我很高興地告訴大家，我們以高調結束了 2024 年。第四季度，AAMI 實現了公司歷史上最高的季度 ENI EPS 水準。ENI 每股收益為 1.30 美元，而 2023 年第四季為 0.77 美元。與去年同期相比，每股 ENI 成長 69%，主要得益於 ENI 成長 50%。

And ENI for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $49 million, a $16 million increase from prior year, primarily driven by higher ENI management fee revenue and higher incentive fees. Adjusted EBITDA of $73 million was up 41% from Q4 of 2023.

2024 年第四季的 ENI 為 4,900 萬美元，比前一年增加 1,600 萬美元，主要由於 ENI 管理費收入增加和激勵費增加。調整後的 EBITDA 為 7,300 萬美元，較 2023 年第四季成長 41%。

Higher AUM from both market appreciation and investment returns over the last 12 months also drove the full year 2024 ENI and adjusted EBITDA increase. Acadian's 2024 ENI was $106 million, and adjusted EBITDA was $177 million for the 12 months ended December 31, 2024, a 40% and 32% increase, respectively, from the prior year.

過去 12 個月市場升值和投資回報帶來的更高 AUM 也推動了 2024 年全年 ENI 和調整後 EBITDA 的成長。Acadian 2024 年的 ENI 為 1.06 億美元，截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 12 個月的調整後 EBITDA 為 1.77 億美元，分別比上一年增長 40% 和 32%。

Record ENI EPS of $2.76 for the full year represented a 55% increase compared to 2023 and was additionally driven by the company's accretive share repurchases. Net client cash flows for the fourth quarter of 2024 were positive by $900 million, as Acadian continued to produce consecutive quarters of net inflows.

ENI 全年每股收益創紀錄地達到 2.76 美元，較 2023 年增長 55%，此外還得益於公司增值股票回購。2024 年第四季的淨客戶現金流為正 9 億美元，因為 Acadian 連續幾季繼續實現淨流入。

Total positive NCCF were $1.8 billion in 2024, the first positive annual net flow since 2019, which was driven by Acadian's highest ever gross sales year of $21 billion in 2024. This success is a testament of our proven investment process as well as Acadian's world-class investment and distribution teams.

2024 年，NCCF 總正值達到 18 億美元，這是自 2019 年以來首次出現正值年度淨流量，這得益於阿卡迪亞公司 2024 年創下的歷史最高總銷售額 210 億美元。這項成功證明了我們成熟的投資流程以及 Acadian 世界一流的投資和分銷團隊。

As a systematic investing pioneer, Acadian was among the first firms in the world to apply data and technology to the systematic evaluation of global assets. This edge enables Acadian to deliver strong risk-adjusted returns that help our clients meet their long-term investment goals.

作為系統投資的先驅，Acadian 是世界上較早將數據和技術應用於全球資產系統評估的公司之一。這項優勢使 Acadian 能夠提供強勁的風險調整回報，幫助我們的客戶實現他們的長期投資目標。

Now let me introduce you to our Chief Investment Officer, Brendan Bradley, who's going to walk you through Acadian's investment performance this quarter.

現在，讓我向您介紹我們的首席投資長 Brendan Bradley，他將向您介紹 Acadian 本季的投資表現。

Thanks, Kelly. While markets were mixed in Q4, with much of the equity world losing value, the US market continued its strong year. Around the globe, equities did well with most major markets realizing double-digit returns in local currency. US high-yield and investment-grade bonds had a positive year, as credit spreads tightened and yields rose.

謝謝，凱利。儘管第四季市場漲跌互現，大部分股票市場出現貶值，但美國市場今年仍延續了強勁勢頭。放眼全球，股市表現良好，大多數主要市場以當地貨幣計算均實現了兩位數的回報。由於信用利差收緊且收益率上升，美國高收益債券和投資級債券今年表現積極。

Overall, MSCI World was up 19%, while EV was up 4% and MSCI Emerging Markets was up 8% in dollar terms. US equities led the way, and within the US, it was the continued strength of a small number of large technology-oriented companies driving the market.

整體而言，以美元計算，MSCI 全球指數上漲 19%，企業價值指數上漲 4%，MSCI 新興市場指數上漲 8%。美國股市領漲，在美國國內，少數大型科技公司的持續走強推動市場。

In a year in which over half the world's population went to the polls, equity markets remained resilient and Acadian's investment process delivered strong performance across nearly all our strategies. While Q4 saw most equity markets giving back, our relative performance was particularly strong, adding over 300 basis points in active performance in our core benchmark-oriented strategies. It was a great finish to a great year.

這一年，全球超過一半的人口參加了投票，但股票市場仍然保持彈性，阿卡迪亞的投資流程幾乎在我們所有的策略中都表現強勁。儘管第四季度大多數股票市場出現回落，但我們的相對錶現尤為強勁，在我們的核心基準導向策略中，主動表現增加了 300 多個基點。這是偉大的一年的完美結束。

In 2024, nearly every strategy and every geography added significant value for our clients. Our performance was highly diversified across our universe of signals ended most major strategies between 80% and 100% of our major signal categories contributed positively to value add.

2024 年，幾乎每項策略和每個地區都為我們的客戶增加了巨大的價值。我們的訊號表現高度多樣化，主要訊號類別中 80% 到 100% 之間的大多數主要策略都對增值做出了積極貢獻。

Over the long term, our systematic investment process has created significant value for our clients. In five major implementations comprising the majority of our assets, 100% of our strategies are outperforming their respective benchmarks for the 3, 5 and 10 year windows ending in 2024.

從長遠來看，我們系統的投資流程為客戶創造了巨大的價值。在構成我們大部分資產的五個主要實施中，我們 100% 的策略在截至 2024 年的 3 年、5 年和 10 年期間的表現均優於各自的基準。

On the consolidated basis, as of December 31, 2024, more than 90% of our strategies by revenue outperformed their respective benchmarks over these 3, 5 and 10 year periods, and more than 89% of our strategies by assets outperformed their respective benchmarks. We generated annualized excess returns of approximately 4% in the most recent five years for our clients. In short, Acadian had another outstanding active quarter and year.

以合併口徑計算，截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，我們以收入計算的 90% 以上的策略在這 3 年、5 年和 10 年期間的表現均超過各自的基準，按資產計算的 89% 以上的策略表現超過各自的基準。我們最近五年為客戶創造了約4%的年化超額報酬。簡而言之，阿卡迪亞大學又度過了一個出色的季度和一年。

Back to you, Kelly.

回到你身邊，凱利。

Thanks, Brendan. Next, I'd like to focus on Acadian's robust distribution platform and team, which helped Acadian generate record gross sales in 2024 and will be a major driver of growth in the years ahead.

謝謝，布倫丹。接下來，我想重點介紹 Acadian 強大的分銷平台和團隊，這幫助 Acadian 在 2024 年創造了創紀錄的總銷售額，並將成為未來幾年成長的主要動力。

For many years, Acadian has had a strong global presence with offices in Boston, London, Sydney and Singapore. We have continued to expand our client and distribution team with over 90 experienced professionals serving more than 1,000 accounts in 40 countries.

多年來，Acadian 在全球具有強大的影響力，在波士頓、倫敦、雪梨和新加坡設有辦事處。我們不斷擴大客戶和分銷團隊，擁有超過 90 名經驗豐富的專業人員，為 40 個國家的 1,000 多個客戶提供服務。

The team has established strong long-term relationships with many institutional clients and consultants across both market segments and geographies, leading to a diverse client base with deep relationships dating back many years and in many cases, across multiple strategies.

該團隊與不同市場領域和地區的許多機構客戶和顧問建立了長期穩固的關係，從而形成了多元化的客戶群，這些客戶群與客戶之間建立了多年的深厚關係，而且在許多情況下，還涉及多種策略。

In tandem, with expanding our distribution capabilities, Acadian's business and product development teams have been focused on increasing our strategy and vehicle offerings in high demand and growing areas where Acadian's systematic approach is particularly well suited, and our current pipeline is very robust.

同時，在擴大我們的分銷能力的同時，Acadian 的業務和產品開發團隊一直致力於在高需求和不斷增長的地區增加我們的策略和車輛供應，Acadian 的系統方法特別適合這些地區，而且我們目前的管道非常強大。

Looking ahead, there are four key product initiatives in addition to our core strategies that we expect will drive Acadian's future growth. In no particular order, these are our enhanced equity, our extensions equity, systematic credit and equity alternatives platforms, and we've made excellent progress in each of these endeavors.

展望未來，除了核心策略之外，我們預計還有四個關鍵產品計劃將推動 Acadian 的未來成長。不分先後順序，這些是我們的增強型股權、我們的擴展型股權、系統性信貸和股權替代平台，我們在每項努力中都取得了卓越的進展。

Our enhanced strategies drove a lot of our asset raising in 2024. Enhanced equity strategies offer risk-adjusted returns with comparatively lower active risk relative to standard active offerings. These strategies can satisfy broader investment demand for lower fee, more consistent return allocations as well as providing alternatives for investors in a $16 trillion passive market, and we expect to see strong momentum in this space going forward.

我們的增強策略推動了我們在 2024 年的大量資產籌集。增強型股票策略可提供風險調整後的回報，與標準主動產品相比，其主動風險相對較低。這些策略可以滿足對更低費用、更一致的回報分配的更廣泛投資需求，並為 16 兆美元被動市場的投資者提供替代方案，我們預計未來該領域將出現強勁發展勢頭。

Our extension portfolios are a form of high-conviction investing, which leverage both long and short positions to increase and manages active views. An example would be our 130/30 product. Acadian has years of extension experience and our alpha is effective for both long and short positions. These strategies have excellent returns and have seen some major new accounts funded recently.

我們的擴展投資組合是一種高信念投資形式，它利用多頭和空頭部位來增加和管理主動觀點。我們的 130/30 產品就是一個例子。Acadian 擁有多年的擴展經驗，我們的 alpha 對於多頭和空頭部位均有效。這些策略具有極好的回報並且最近已經為一些重要的新帳戶提供了資金。

On systematic credit, we have three live track records: US high-yield, global high-yield and US investment grade, with the first offering ceded in Q4 2023. We believe our data infrastructure, systematic platform and culture of transparency will produce excellent results for Acadian's credit products and enable us to access the $3 trillion active corporate credit space. We recently onboarded our first external client assets in credit, and we will continue to incubate our track records.

在系統性信貸方面，我們有三種即時記錄：美國高收益債券、全球高收益債券和美國投資等級債券，首次發行於 2023 年第四季。我們相信，我們的數據基礎設施、系統平台和透明文化將為 Acadian 的信貸產品帶來優異的業績，並使我們能夠進入 3 兆美元的活躍企業信貸領域。我們最近在信貸領域引入了第一批外部客戶資產，我們將繼續孵化我們的業績記錄。

Finally, Acadian's equity alternative strategies are targeting the multi-strategy hedge fund market, one of the fastest-growing segments of the global hedge fund industry. We are producing high returns with low market correlations and have already gathered external assets in this strategy.

最後，Acadian 的股票另類策略瞄準多策略對沖基金市場，這是全球對沖基金產業成長最快的部分之一。我們以較低的市場相關性產生高回報，並且已經透過此策略累積了外部資產。

To sum up. Over time, we expect these four initiatives; enhanced, extensions, credit and equity alternatives to help generate sustained growth for Acadian, while we continue to deliver strong returns on our core offerings which include global, non-US, emerging markets and small cap equities.

總結。隨著時間的推移，我們期待實現這四項舉措；增強型、擴展型、信貸和股權替代品，幫助阿卡迪亞人實現持續成長，同時我們將繼續為我們的核心產品（包括全球、非美國、新興市場和小型股）提供強勁的回報。

I'm now delighted to turn the call over to Melody to provide you with an update on capital allocation.

現在我很高興將電話轉給 Melody，以便向您提供有關資本配置的最新資訊。

Thanks, Kelly. Our balance sheet provides the liquidity and financial flexibility to execute our growth strategy and to enhance shareholder value. At the end of fourth quarter 2024, we have $95 million in cash and $90 million in [seed] investments. With approximately $274 million of long-term debt and nothing drawn on our $140 million revolving credit facility, our debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio was 1.5 times as of 12/31/24, and our net leverage ratio was just 1 times as of 12/31/24.

謝謝，凱利。我們的資產負債表提供了流動性和財務靈活性，以執行我們的成長策略並提高股東價值。截至 2024 年第四季末，我們擁有 9,500 萬美元現金和 9,000 萬美元的[種子]投資。由於長期債務約為 2.74 億美元，且未動用 1.4 億美元的循環信貸額度，截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，我們的債務與調整後 EBITDA 比率為 1.5 倍，而截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，我們的淨槓桿率僅為 1 倍。

Over the past five years, we demonstrated a track record of creating significant value to our shareholders through returning $1.4 billion of excess capital. Outstanding diluted shares went down 56% from 86 million in Q4 2019 to 38 million shares in Q4 2024.

在過去五年中，我們透過返還 14 億美元的超額資本，為股東創造了巨大價值。流通在外的稀釋股份從 2019 年第四季的 8,600 萬股下降 56% 至 2024 年第四季的 3,800 萬股。

Share buybacks were not only highly accretive to EPS growth, but also very tax efficient. As our business continues to generate strong free cash flow, we expect to continue deploying excess capital to support our organic growth and to buy back our shares whenever opportunities come up.

股票回購不僅能大大促進每股盈餘成長，而且稅收效率也很高。隨著我們的業務繼續產生強勁的自由現金流，我們預計將繼續部署過剩資本來支持我們的有機成長，並在機會出現時回購我們的股票。

Now Kelly will deliver her closing remarks.

現在凱利將致結束語。

Thanks, Melody. Before going into Q&A, I'd like to recap the key points we've covered in this presentation. We're the only standalone publicly traded systematic manager. Our results were outstanding in the fourth quarter and full year of 2024 with ENI EPS growth of 69% and 55%, respectively. $1.8 billion of net cash flows were generated in 2024, the first positive year since 2019.

謝謝，梅洛迪。在進入問答環節之前，我想回顧一下我們在本次演講中討論的要點。我們是唯一獨立的公開交易系統管理者。我們的業績在 2024 年第四季和全年表現出色，ENI EPS 分別成長了 69% 和 55%。 2024 年產生了 18 億美元的淨現金流，這是自 2019 年以來第一個實現正成長的年份。

Our track record is robust. More than 90% of Acadian's strategies by revenue outperformed their respective benchmarks across the 3, 5 and 10 year period. Acadian is currently only trading at around 9 times 2024 earnings, while our peers' average PE multiple is at approximately 14 times.

我們的業績記錄十分出色。以收入計算，Acadian 90% 以上的策略在 3 年、5 年和 10 年期間的表現都超過了各自的基準。Acadian 目前的本益比僅為 2024 年收益的 9 倍左右，而我們同業的平均本益比約為 14 倍。

With exceptional investment performance and several organic growth initiatives well in place, Acadian is positioned for meaningful growth, and I'm truly excited about the opportunities that lie ahead.

憑藉卓越的投資績效和多項有機成長計劃，Acadian 預計將實現有意義的成長，我對未來的機會感到非常興奮。

This concludes my prepared remarks, and I'll turn the call back to the operator, and we'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.

我的準備好的發言到此結束，我將把電話轉回給接線員，我們很樂意回答您的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Kenneth Lee, RBC Capital.

Kenneth Lee，加拿大皇家銀行資本管理公司。

Hey, good morning, and thanks for taking my question. Just want to get a better sense of whether there are any specific strategies that drove the positive net flows that you saw in the quarter there? Thanks again.

嘿，早上好，感謝您回答我的問題。只是想更了解是否有任何特定的策略推動了您在本季看到的正淨流量？再次感謝。

Kenneth, it's nice to speak to you again. Yeah, I think what was really exciting about Q4 sales and sales for 2024 was actually the breadth of strategies that we saw clients funding. We've seen clear growth in both enhanced equities and our extension strategies recently, but also saw substantial assets moving into a number of our sort of more traditional core strategies as well where we are gaining market share in a number of areas. So it was pretty broadening in Q4, but with those themes of enhanced extensions being sort of two of the more prevalent.

肯尼斯，很高興再次與您交談。是的，我認為第四季度銷售和 2024 年銷售真正令人興奮的實際上是我們看到客戶資助的策略的廣度。我們最近看到增強型股票和擴展策略都出現了顯著增長，同時也看到大量資產轉入我們的許多更傳統的核心策略，同時我們正在多個領域獲得市場份額。因此，第四季的業務範圍相當廣泛，但增強擴展的主題是其中最普遍的兩個主題。

Got you. Very helpful there. And just on that, and thanks again for the additional details around some of the newer systematic strategies, the enhanced equity, the systematic credit, the equity alternatives. I wonder if you could just help us frame out the longer-term AUM opportunity, specifically for Acadian for these kind of strategies, how much growth could you see AUM grow over time there?

明白了。非常有幫助。就此而言，再次感謝您提供有關一些較新的系統策略、增強股權、系統信貸和股權替代品的更多詳細資訊。我想知道您是否可以幫助我們規劃長期的 AUM 機會，特別是對於 Acadian 而言，對於此類策略，您認為 AUM 隨著時間的推移會增長多少？

And then somewhat relatedly, what's sort of the fee rate opportunity here? Is it typical fee rate a little bit higher or lower than the average fee rate that you're seeing currently for Acadian? Thanks.

然後有點相關的是，這裡的費率機會是什麼樣的？它的典型費率是否比您目前看到的阿卡迪亞人的平均費率略高或略低？謝謝。

Sure. Yeah. We're very pleased, I think, with the progress that we've made in both of those initiatives. And we're in a strong position. I don't anticipate any sort of additional investments really needed for those. We're obviously still in the period of incubating both of those track records of building longer-term tracks there.

當然。是的。我認為，我們對這兩項措施所取得的進展感到非常高興。我們處於有利地位。我預計這些實際上不需要任何額外的投資。顯然，我們仍處於孵化這兩項記錄並在那裡建立長期軌道的時期。

But I think, as I said in my prepared remarks, there's a very, very large credit market. Systematic credit is certainly something more newer and more nascent. But we think the opportunities there really could be substantial over time, sort of large mandates that we would expect to see there as we continue to incubate those track records.

但我認為，正如我在準備好的發言中所說，信貸市場非常非常大。系統信貸無疑是一種較新且尚處於萌芽階段的事物。但我們認為，隨著時間的推移，那裡的機會確實可能會很大，隨著我們繼續孵化這些業績記錄，我們期望在那裡看到類似的大規模授權。

On the equity alternatives platform, again, multi-strategy has been a very popular area, I think, over the last few years in the market. And as we continue to build, I think, a strong compelling offering there, again, we think there's sort of substantial upside in terms of AUM growth.

在股票替代平台上，我認為，多策略在過去幾年中一直是市場上非常受歡迎的領域。而且我認為，隨著我們繼續建立強大而引人注目的產品，我們認為 AUM 成長方面將有實質的上升空間。

So hard to put sort of firm numbers on those. But again, I think we feel very positive about the opportunities in both of those. With respect to fees, certainly, on the credit side, you would expect to see sort of fees, I think, would in terms of the blended fee that we see for average fees across the business, perhaps a little lower there. But again, I think that's certainly going to depend on the dynamics and where we see flows coming into across the credit business.

因此很難給出確切的數字。但我再次認為，我們對這兩個領域的機會都抱持著非常樂觀的態度。關於費用，當然，在信貸方面，你會看到某種費用，我認為，就我們看到的整個業務平均費用的混合費用而言，可能會低一些。但我再次認為，這肯定取決於信貸業務的動態和資金流入。

Equity alternatives and the hedge fund platform, again, you would see -- expect to see much higher average fees there versus what we see in our more sort of traditional core strategy. So I think we feel very positive about both AUM potential growth there as well as excited about the impact on revenue and certainly for the equity alternatives platform.

再次，您會看到，股票替代品和對沖基金平台的平均成本與我們更傳統的核心策略相比要高得多。因此，我認為，我們對於 AUM 的潛在成長感到非常樂觀，並且對其對收入的影響以及對股票替代平台的影響也感到非常興奮。

Got you. Very helpful there. And just one last one, if I could squeeze one in. Given the cash on balance sheet, I wonder if you could just talk a little bit more about potential cash needs for this coming year? And I think you have an upcoming note maturity as well, any plans around that? Thanks.

明白了。非常有幫助。如果可以的話，我還有最後一個問題。考慮到資產負債表上的現金，我想知道您是否可以再談談今年的潛在現金需求？而且我認為您的票據也即將到期，您有什麼計劃嗎？謝謝。

Sure. Yeah. As you know -- I mean, the balance sheet is very strong, and the business generates very good free cash flow. So it gives us financial flexibility to whether it's to fund those organic growth strategies, returning capital to shareholders and paying down debt. So we haven't got pre-allocations in mind.

當然。是的。如你所知 - 我的意思是，資產負債表非常強勁，而且業務產生了非常好的自由現金流。因此，它為我們提供了財務靈活性，無論是資助這些有機成長策略、向股東返還資本或償還債務。因此我們沒有考慮預先分配。

As you noted, the senior note matures next year, we'll start looking into refinancing options for that note. And want to be prudent in terms of maintaining good leverage ratios and financial flexibility there and obviously focusing on what makes most sense for shareholder value.

正如您所說，優先票據將於明年到期，我們將開始研究該票據的再融資方案。並希望謹慎地保持良好的槓桿率和財務靈活性，並顯然專注於對股東價值最有意義的事情。

Got you. Very helpful. Thanks again.

明白了。非常有幫助。再次感謝。

Pleasure.

樂趣。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Michael Cypress, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的邁克爾·賽普拉斯。

This is [Anna Lee] on for Mike. Just wondering if you could maybe provide some color on composition and the magnitude of the pipeline, maybe frame that how -- frame that versus how it was like three to six months ago? Thanks.

我是 [Anna Lee]，為 Mike 播音。只是想知道您是否可以提供一些關於管道組成和規模的詳細信息，也許可以將其框架化，與三到六個月前的情況相比如何？謝謝。

Sure. Thanks, Anna Lee. Yeah, we have a very strong robust pipeline, I'd say, across a number of different strategies and a very strong one not funded pipeline that we expect to see those clients fund over the next, I'd say, one to two quarters. We've seen the pipeline pick up quite significantly, I'd say, through the second half of 2024 going into '25.

當然。謝謝，安娜李。是的，我想說，我們擁有非常強大的管道，涵蓋多種不同的策略，還有非常強大的尚未獲得資金支持的管道，我們預計這些客戶將在未來一到兩個季度內為其提供資金。我想說，到 2024 年下半年至 2025 年，我們已經看到管道數量大幅增加。

And again, I think the theme you're going to see are going to be consistent with my prepared remarks earlier that enhanced and extension to two areas where we continue to see areas of focus for clients. But again, our traditional core equity strategies and certainly in some of our more niche areas like small cap are proving very popular and gaining a lot of attention.

而且，我認為您將要看到的主題將與我之前準備好的發言一致，即加強和延伸到我們繼續看到客戶關注的兩個領域。但事實是，我們的傳統核心股票策略以及一些較小眾的領域（如小型股）非常受歡迎，並且獲得了大量關注。

So I'd say the pipeline looks incredibly robust, perhaps more robust even than 6 months ago when we felt very positive going into the second half of last year. And as I said, across the breadth of strategies, which, from our point of view, from the diversification point of view is really nice to see.

因此，我想說，通路看起來非常強勁，甚至可能比六個月前更強勁，當時我們對去年下半年感到非常樂觀。正如我所說，從我們的角度來看，從多樣化的角度來看，跨度策略是令人欣喜的。

Awesome, thanks.

太棒了，謝謝。

And this does conclude our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the conference call back to Kelly Young. Kelly?

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將電話會議轉回給凱利楊。凱莉？

Okay. Thank you, everyone, for taking the time today. Have a good day.

好的。感謝大家今天抽出時間。祝你有美好的一天。